NL: Neighborhood Water Flowing onto Residential Lots

[Ellatrue]

I found that, when placing lots landscaped in such a way that there is a "dip" in the landscape very close to the water, the neighborhood water will actually flow onto the lot- so long as the trench/dip/lowered area is next to the ocean, and the flooded area is below simulated sea level.

I am uncertain as to whether or not this is caused (or allowed) by the neighborhood slope hack in my game. I am also uncertain as to whether or not this can be done with a lot that is made "from scratch"- so far I have been using lots that, for whatever reason, already have a slope at the edge to place the terrain below the level of the water. When I tried to create a lot like this myself I failed to lower the terrain at the edge of the lot, even with the constrainfloorelevation cheat.

I think, perhaps, this can be accomplished by starting a blank lot on a slope so that the slope becomes a part of the lot, then moving that lot to another part of the neighborhood so that the land deforms around it. I haven't had time to experiment with this much myself, but then again, that's what these forums are for!

Here are some screenshots:

this is what happened when I discovered the bug, placing a downloaded lot in my neighborhood:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y179/Ellatrue/Sims/snapshot_00000007_5089b298.jpg

here it is in the game:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y179/Ellatrue/Sims/snapshot_00000007_3088e902.jpg

The sims will walk through the water as if it is not there, because it is only a visual effect like the layers of water in the pool (without the "core" of the pool).

here is the lot I placed next to it, learning that the neighborhood water will not flow from one lot to another- at least, not this time

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y179/Ellatrue/Sims/Obx3prdry.jpg

you may not see this, but for whatever reason, the neighboring lot did not show up as having water from the view of this lot- although in the view from other nearby lots, it did

And here is the same lot in a different location that allowed the water to flow onto the land.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y179/Ellatrue/Sims/snapshot_0000000a_f08aabb8.jpg

Zooming out really far actually made the water seem to recede:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y179/Ellatrue/Sims/obx3prterrain.jpg

Anyway, I think there is much about this new "glitch" in the game that we can discover!

[niol]

Thanks for sharing that, I tend to believe the last approach you mentioned should be working...

Just a linkage for related infos:
NL: Neighborhood Water Flowing onto Residential Lots [initiated. by Ellatrue]
http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=107988
How To Build An Island In 5 Easy Steps [by eedgan]
http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=184564
Lots on water
http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=198261

[Ellatrue]

Yes, I was surprised that it didn't. I think it is something that will require more testing.

[KaiRMD1]

Nice house by the way

[Ellatrue]

Thanks, I uploaded it if you have any interest- the link is in my profile.

[niol]

What it looks now is that it takes that type of bay in the neighbourhood in order to create the effect...

[Inge Jones]

Could you just repeat the slope cheat here please? Or a pointer to where I can find it.

[niol]

I believe it's the following mod being discussed here...

Change max slope value
http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=47544

The max limit should be <90, and I've tried 89.99 which is still working... :bandit:
I use this setting to create new cliffs or demonished some parts of the cliffs in some of my neighbourhoods...

The default setting is at a value of 20. The mod is of 40. The value 90 will make the neighbourhood not working. (probably due to a result of nothing or infinity, anyway out of the functional range.)

[Inge Jones]

Thanks Niol

[niol]

Inge,

You're welcome... Thanks for all of your amazing hacks/mods. They're working very well.... at least to me...! :moose:

[Ellatrue]

that's the thing- there was no bay until I placed the house- once I had placed it, the water flowed onto the lot

[niol]

Ellatrue,

So, have you tried to replicate the same neighbourhood and place another sloped lot to test the same location?

[Ellatrue]

no, but I did do it in another part of the same neighborhood, as well as on a downtown lot- the game still won't let you place a lot over water, but it will let you place a lot *next* to the water- and this lot was as close as possible.

The edge of the lot was below the level of the sidewalk, which caused the terrain surrounding the lot to deform. That's how you see the bay. The trick seems to be placing the lot on a part of the neighborhood with a sufficiently low elevation: I tried this on one of the islands in my downtown neighborhood, and it whether it worked depended on the original elevation of the terrain as well.

So, I think this is something to keep in mind for people who like to make custom neighborhoods.

[niol]

Thanks for the infos...
Rush to hunt for suitable neighbourhoods...:D

[Ellatrue]

yeah, let me know if it works for you, I am curious about how it could turn out in other people's games

EDIT 01-09: Has anyone else had any success with this method? I want to know if it works for other people, and whether or not it requires the neighborhood slope hack.

[niol]

Thanks to rhondalatte,

I guess this thread has a little bit more info to add to how to apply this phenomenon...

Baffled - Do you have any ideas?
http://forums.thesimsresource.com/showthread.php?t=296845&highlight=neighborhood

When the relative positional "height"of a lot is lower than the the water level of the neighbourhood, the water layers from the neighbourhood may show up in that lot...

This can cause certain basement or underground of some lots flooded with neighbourhood water...!
Yet, this's also probably why the neighbour bay water may enter the lot shown above.

this phenomenon may not be NL-specific.

[Duds]

I had a little play with this and it looks like that the neighborhood water level does come onto the lot.

Now to get this effect you obiviously need a low lying terrain type,
but if you coupled that with a sloped lot to the right depth you could create some interesting houses/islands etc.

I use the slope hack because I like slopes to build my lots on, some times extreme slopes (like Cliffside Retreat). My ideal low lying terrain was Ocean Atoll, and combining the two I managed to get a lot that might be better called submarine station :D

See my screen shot of the mix.

You might not need the slope hack as long as you can get a lot where the road is higher than the majority of the lot.

you can always get an appropiate empty lot, build a single foundation on it, then move it to your house bin. (or package it and install as many times as required if you want to use it several times. After placement Nightlife leaves a copy in the house bin). Then plop down as many as you need.

[niol]

Duds,

Wow, now, I wish en7en's titanic was built on a lot like this...:moose:
Thanks for that, I'll try it...:)

[Ellatrue]

Oh, cool, someone else tried it! I had it be a problem with a house with a basement as well, but I figure that problem is easily solved...

[plasticbox]

The trick is simply to

1. make a terrain with a very low-lying coast (*not* what the default "make everything lower" tool is doing in SC4 -- you need to (or at least, I had to) do this manually, e.g. with the "smoothening" function + then flatten it out to just above water level)

2. put streets near the coastline

3. make a neighbourhood; put a lot somewhere with a downwards slope, enter it + save (so that you can move the lot) -- in my experience, the less steep the slope the better it looks because it doesn't distort the underwater terrain (which will probably be quite shallow) that much.

4. take that lot + put it next to the coast so that the slope is pushing the lot border underwater.

Try it, it's fun! Beach lots are great .. the only problem is that the sims have no idea that the water is there, they will happily walk underwater -- either think of it as scuba diving, or put a fence/slope that they can't pass. I don't see any way to combine this with the "swimmable lake illusion" though, as they would swim underwater if I understand it correctly (I haven't actually tried).


ETA: In my experience, the slope hack is entirely optional.

Duds: Did you ever succeed in putting 2 beach lots directly next to each other? Whatever I try, I always need at least one lot tile space inbetween or the game won't let me place it if any part of the lot borders (that I want to join seamlessly) is underwater.

ETA, as well: I have NL, no Uni.

[niol]

[QUOTE=plasticbox]... Whatever I try, I always need at least one lot tile space inbetween or the game won't let me place it if any part of the lot borders (that I want to join seamlessly) is underwater.
...QUOTE]

May read this tutorial:
How to do Post-SC4 Neighbourhood-Terrain-Levelling (NTL)
http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=103896

With the method mentioned, one may increase the chance of placing a lot next to each other.

In this case, the lot needs at least a side with the same matching slope as a complementary side of the another one. That's the key concept to make it.

[plasticbox]

I know this stuff, thanks -- my point was (probably not clear, sorry) that this does not work (not for me, at least) if, and only if the border between the lots is partly underwater. If I take two adjoining lots from, say, a hill, that I can place next to each other perfectly fine under normal conditions, it won't work when I put them at the coast (so that the slope goes underwater). Tried with and without various flavors of the slope hack, no luck.

[Ellatrue]

When you say that you couldn't place the lot, do you mean they would not place next to each other, or that the water would not flow from one to another, as you might expect it to?

I was able to use this glitch in another way, where the first lot was placed near the coast but not so near that it could be considered to be "on the water," but near enough (or perhaps the lot was simply deep enough) to create a small lake.

[plasticbox]

1. I meant that I can't place them next to each other (even if they *used to be* next to each other). To be more precise, what does work is if one lot is, for example, 4 squares deep and the other one 3, and the first 3 squares (of the common border) are above the water line, then it works. But as soon as the border goes below the water, it doesn't.

The only possible workaround I can imagine (but it would be SO MUCH WORK that I don't see myself doing it) is the kind of terrain surgery that JMP describes on MATY ... with two identical terrains, the first one a bit "higher" than the other one (with the SC4 "move up" tool, so that the terrain remains absolutely the same otherwise), put all lots on the first one, then replace with the second one. I really do hope there is another way =/ ...

I was dreaming of an urban beach promenade kind of thing, you see -- you can do really nice things with foundations that go into the water, little harbors and such (The foundations don't go to the edge of the lot of course (another old gripe of mine -- WHY NOT, Maxis? What's the problem? Can sims only live in suburbia or what?) .. err, well if they would it would look infinitely cool, with a seamless quai. But even so, if at least the lots themselves were seamless there's always a way to cover up the gap with fences or something. So, that's why I want to place them next to each other ... for beaches it's not that important, as the terrain does slope nicely.


2. Happened to me as well! (Deep enough is what matters, in my experience)

[niol]

1. I know I'm stating the obvious, just in case, have you tried making new lots right beside the main lot?
2. neighbourhood terrain may not change well when it gets too close to its borders, so you see why I why I want some neighbourhood really plain and close tothe water level coz it's easier to control or have a better chance to get it...
3. Wow, I wish these may come true in the future EPs Indeed, I also wish lots can be placed in the "sea" or "ocean"...! The portal will be placeble by the lot builders...

[plasticbox]

1. Yes, but that's pointless as I want BOTH of the lots to have an underwater border.

[LagunaSims2]

Wow Great!!!

[Ellatrue]

Yes, just be careful that you don't flood the basement- if you do this, you need to make sure that your lowest floor is above the water level as well.

At least one story above, if you are going to do a realistic design, because most towns will require something like that.

[simsjeanie]

. . . I was dreaming of an urban beach promenade kind of thing, you see --

Do it - Do it - Do it!!! PLEASE!!!

I'm dreaming of a neighbourhood round a river with soft sloped riverbanks - and then a lot of small houses side by side with gardens / back yards reaching to the river.
In Germany you have something like that at Marburg or at Heidelberg or at Bamberg or at Hamburg . . . Oh, I would love to have the knowledge to do something like that!

[sweetpea83991]

Does this only work with nightlife? I have just the base game, and I found that in the neighborhood view my lot will flood but once I actually get into my lot, the water is gone. Also, can someone give me a link for an ideal low-terrain neighborhood or one that I can get a nice slope (for my beach lots) on a hill with? Thanks so much!

[niol]

In my limited experiences so far, it seems so...it seems it needs NL or probably above to have this phenomenon... This phenomenon seems to come with the way of how the neighbourhood is shown in live mode.

But, as I said, my experiences are not much still, so I can be wrong.

Duds, who posted in post 17 had made a neighbourhood for that purpose... Also, may check out the download section for the neighbourhoods You may find some...

[eedgan]

I have no problem placing 2 lots next to each other and then have the waterflow into the lot. (Altho' I have all EP's) I do not use any cheats, I simply use a lot where the lot slopes downwards away from the street. Without building on it, I then move the lot to the coast (Bluewater neighbourhood is ideal, also Cape Town and Lesvos by Patul works great) - the lot will be partially submerged - I simply use the elevation to to expose the land I want to build on.

See images of my lot placed alongside Nengi's lot - see how the water flows into t he lot.

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i1/eedgan/snapshot_0000000c_51d89de3.jpg

Neighbourhood view

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i1/eedgan/snapshot_0000000c_f1d89e14.jpg

[shrekheatherbelle]

I havn't used a slope cheat....I wasn't even aware that there was one untill I read these posts!
I recently made a lot and uploaded it here....
http://forums.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=172291

Called Shark Bay!

I secided to place the lot with the rear of the lot backing on to neighbourhood water, as I thought it would just look nice :) I was intending in building this lot high off the ground with a large arched bridge connecting the 2 living blocks of the home. But when digging down, I found the neighbourhood water appeared on my lot. Soooo I left it there as I thought it looked good and went with the theme of the home.
Also whilst taking screenshots of the lot for uploading, when I zoomed out a little, the water would dissapear. I made a note in the upload so if people wanted the water in the back yard, to place the lot with the back close to neighbourhood water!

fev

[patul]

I read eedgan post(thank you :) ). That made me think that nbh that it quotes are created with a ground lowered compared to the default level of simcity4. It was to improve the beaches width.

I tried to redo this effect with a 3 clicks lowered nbh, a 4 clicks flat lot under the road level.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g31/patul_photos/example.jpg

It is just a matter of altitude like in the reality :jest: !

[patul]

With more more tests : lowest altitude to be able to build a road (thus to place a lot) in SimCity is around 13 clicks. It's not very easy to do in SC4 because even in max zooming you cant see the difference, you can place the road... or not !
the beaches of my next nbh will be with this height

[niol]

patul,
so you mean you're finding outthe min height for neighbourhood-making in SC4 for making neighbourhood for beaches, lakes and sea in TS2...?

That's a good news... Thanks....
I know I don't know much on SC4 coz I haven't played it... Cool... good works... :clap:

[patul]

It's that i found, it may be more or a little less than 13, it is impossible to count exactly .
I think you can change the value of the beach width in the neighborhood.ini. An other thing, water do not seems to appear after near to 8 ts2 squares from a seaside.

When you are at the 1st click under water it not seen every time, depending to camera angle and zoom, idem in the nbh view. At this level you cannot place "water objects" but ground ones, I will show you all this evening (for me its 10am now)

a+ :beer:

[patul]

I looked some aspects on this subject. I discovered things which I was unaware of.
First in the .SC4 file
I was mistaken, the minus level for a road is 1 click. But i spent one hour to lower and lower the ground in a small area. It is a blind job you see nothing in SCity4. An other thing, for the nb4 makers you can't see where the water will be exactly, and the level brush do not level the same on each place ( in ts2 it is about 2 clicks -perhaps because i have a smoothtalusangle of 35) .

Second, in TS2
- To have a beach. You must have a lot with the limits under the level of the road, depending of the road height, you don't need a slope cheat like my 89 !
- In TS2 the ocean is not made of water ! I think it is because you can't use it in the pastis :Pint: So you can build under sea without cheat. And the sims do not consider this a water (underwater houses already exist)
- There is a graphic bug : the 1st time you reach the water in a lot here is a limit beyond which is no more water (i must say waterpaint). This limit (about 6nbh squares) disapear after ( I don't think it is my graphic card, a 7800 GT), it was funny :lol:
- The default level of the ground in SimCity4 = 9 stages in TS2 ! So if the nbh maker don't lower the level you never have these problems !

2 images to illustrate my remarks:
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g31/patul_photos/d01.jpg

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g31/patul_photos/d02.jpg

I hope i help you a little, as you help me a lot in this forum.

:beer:

[niol]

wow... Amazing findings and testings...
Thanks...

[ViralHatred]

Duds: Did you ever succeed in putting 2 beach lots directly next to each other? Whatever I try, I always need at least one lot tile space inbetween or the game won't let me place it if any part of the lot borders (that I want to join seamlessly) is underwater.

ETA, as well: I have NL, no Uni.

Something i found?

Baeu: it might still be useful though, because normally it's not possible to have beach lots *directly adjacent* to each other. With this hack, one could put down the lots first so that they're still out of the water (then it's no problem to put them next to each other), and then install the hack to make the water level rise ... voilà, seamless beach.

This is only a hypothesis, of course, since I haven't tried it yet.

[Inge Jones]

As a utility, I have created a set of terrains with fixed even slopes of various angles, as somewhere to pre-create sloping lots that can be flooded. You just make your lot, put it in the bin (after entering it briefly in order to save it) and then place it on your beach neighbourhood near the water.

I have also created one island/beach terrain and one lake terrain with roads suitable for water's edge lots to be built on.

Get them at: http://simlogical.com/dinnerbell/index.php?board=6.0

[patul]

Thank you for the pre made lots Inge they will be useful for lazy simmers like me :lol: but for the terrain there is a list of 9 MTS2 "lowered neighbourhoods" in this thread http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=184564 post #8.

:beer:

[Ellatrue]

thank you inge and patul these neighborhoods are perfect for what i am trying to do!

Now we just need a way to get them to swim in it!

[fleshapple]

Okay, guys, I need a little filtering here... I've apparently downloaded a custom hood with a high water table. In game now, basements, etc. are flooded if they even approach the very high water line (appears as the "grapic bug" patul cites). Gameplay is normal, but low floors are covered with a blue hue that makes them annoying beyond the retinal telling. So how do I fix this? Can I fix it in game?

Thanks for the filtration.
~fleshapple

[patul]

there is a cheat somewhere here to change the water heigth by changing values in a text file... I dont remind where, but on MTS2... search !

[Begoth_Princess]

mkay, does anyone know how to make the water actually look like water tho instead of that silly blue colored land? I mean really it looks terrible and fake. Any way to actually see the water glisten, reflect, sparkle, or hell even wave?