Held without charge

[sabrown100]

How long should police be allowed to hold criminals without charging them?

[Doc Doofus]

According to George W. Bush, indefinitely (forever). And he got what he wanted in the latest Patriot Act revision. They can hold you forever by just saying you're a terrorist. And you can't argue that you're not, because you'll never see a judge to deny it. They can strip you of your citizenship. They can torture you.

They are doing it. They can do all this in violation of countless international treaties and domestic laws, because if nobody enforces the Constitution, it's as if it doesn't really exist.

[sabrown100]

According to George W. Bush, indefinitely (forever). And he got what he wanted in the latest Patriot Act revision. They can hold you forever by just saying you're a terrorist. And you can't argue that you're not, because you'll never see a judge to deny it. They can strip you of your citizenship. They can torture you.

They are doing it. They can do all this in violation of countless international treaties and domestic laws, because if nobody enforces the Constitution, it's as if it doesn't really exist.

And I thought it was bade here in the UK!

[Annique]

According to George W. Bush, indefinitely (forever). And he got what he wanted in the latest Patriot Act revision. They can hold you forever by just saying you're a terrorist. And you can't argue that you're not, because you'll never see a judge to deny it. They can strip you of your citizenship. They can torture you.

They are doing it. They can do all this in violation of countless international treaties and domestic laws, because if nobody enforces the Constitution, it's as if it doesn't really exist.
Corruption and repression are small price to pay for the war on terrorism.

[appelsapgodin]

@ Annique.

Until you are the one sitting innocent in guantanamo.

[kinneer_SC]

According to George W. Bush, indefinitely (forever). And he got what he wanted in the latest Patriot Act revision. They can hold you forever by just saying you're a terrorist. And you can't argue that you're not, because you'll never see a judge to deny it. They can strip you of your citizenship. They can torture you.

They are doing it. They can do all this in violation of countless international treaties and domestic laws, because if nobody enforces the Constitution, it's as if it doesn't really exist.

Oh wow. Thanks for the info. Maybe I can use this as a counter argument to all the Americans who are complaining about the Chinese government for lack of civil rights for their citizen.

[Synthesis]

Oh wow. Thanks for the info. Maybe I can use this as a counter argument to all the Americans who are complaining about the Chinese government for lack of civil rights for their citizen.

China is a whole different bag--and not necessarily a safer/less safe one. Contrary to popular belief, the average Chinese citizen does not worry about being yanked into a black government van and thrown into a jail for the rest of their lives. This is especially true for the Chinese middle class, which has an unspoken agreement with the government--don't rattle the cages, don't pull another Tienanmen Square, and we'll let you have nice electronics, a decent education, inexpensive healthcare, whilst we do the work of fighting crime in a country of more than a billion people.

Now, for a Tibetan, it's an entirely different story. I'm Taiwanese, which means I can travel to China and more or less act with impunity, provided I don't do anything stupid or illegal, like smuggle drugs or punch a cop. Being a Tibetan must be a sort of hell I'd rather not contemplate...

It's a known fact that, on a scale of 1 to 10 in terms of government control/pervasiveness, the US is something of a 5 or a 6 (with 10 being the highest). Not abnormal for wartime by any means--yes, you can be held without trial indefinitely if labeled a terrorist--but for a lot of people, that's a fairly low likelihood. It's probably just me, but I worry more about unchecked poverty at the moment.

Now, if you're a Muslim, or someone of Arab descent, and have ever been an activist or traveled to Europe--then it's probably a lot more terrifying.

Of course, this is kind of a nihilist view....as it's said, "When they came for me, there was no one left to speak".

[Annique]

@ Annique.

Until you are the one sitting innocent in guantanamo.
I meant that sentence in the sarcastic sense. It's an enormous price, and the war on terror is a joke. These days anyone with a beard could be a 'potential terrorist' and it angers me how Muslims or people of Arabian descent are so dreaded by the world today.

[appelsapgodin]

@ Annique.

Glad to hear. It's hard to read sarcasm sometimes.

[J. M. Pescado]

How long should police be allowed to hold criminals without charging them?
Until they sober up.

According to George W. Bush, indefinitely (forever). And he got what he wanted in the latest Patriot Act revision. They can hold you forever by just saying you're a terrorist. And you can't argue that you're not, because you'll never see a judge to deny it. They can strip you of your citizenship. They can torture you.

They are doing it. They can do all this in violation of countless international treaties and domestic laws, because if nobody enforces the Constitution, it's as if it doesn't really exist.
This is why at this point, you have to insist they charge you before you even go along with them. Otherwise, you will Disappear. If they can't be bothered to come up with something to charge you with, they are clearly there to disappear you and you should fight! Remember, it's not paranoia when they really are out to get you.

[Mecall]

I think it should depend on the seriousness of the crime. But I do think a person should still be entitled to see their lawyer during this time and have an idea about what the police are going to charge them with

[sabrown100]

What do you make of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mH3BTaWrQ3I

[Black_Barook!]

I wonder if America would like it if other countries, namely Arabic ones such as Kuwait and Qatar, started throwing Americans in jail for no reason.

[Fayreview]

I have to agree with the primeministers new proposal for 54 days. In extreme cases only.
For in the words of many people, we may not be struggling now but are we going to wait until we are releasing people due to lack of information to change?

[sabrown100]

They said that MPs could vote to extend that - if nessesary. Why can't they just do that over 14 days? How often does terrorism happen?

[Fayreview]

If we are to believe the government, very often and in more complex ways... The reason they can't do that over 14 days is somehave taken right up to the 28 day maximum. And some people begin to worry soon they wont manage to wrap up the plot before time is out.