Object Recolor Conflicts (Testing Results?)

[dhevynstarr]

Since it has been a few months since the onset of object recoloring, I thought I would take a look at the status of my game. I had received messages about some of the recolors vanishing from game and I felt I should look into it.

I have about 3100 object recolors in my game. Of those recolors, I estimate about 500 of them actually show up. The majority of my original creations have vanished from site. Many of the objects I am downloading are now showing up as blue blinking objects and for the most part things are pretty much a mess.

I myself am planning on remaking my objects using object workshop, to see if that clears up the problems with my own recolors. My guess is that recolor artists are using other people's objects as a base and not creating the new recolor correctly and breaking the older versions. Since people are putting these objects out in mass production, each new set breaks more and more of the older sets. A real headache for the original creator of the recolor since they are now being contacted to fix objects that others have broken and in the future will end up fixing again as yet more recolors are based off their items. (See where I am going with this?)

I know there has been a few requests for a filecop program, and I was curious as to if anything like this was in the making. Something to scan the .package files and check for conflicts between objects. Another idea is to actually add a function to SimPE to validate the new file against the creators existing recolors, or against the object that was used as a base.

I had thought of setting up a clean Sims install to initially test the new objects, but realized that many of these work correctly until they are introduced into the game with the rest of the existing objects. At that point trying to determine which files are conflicting is a very time consuming process.

So for now, any thoughts, suggestions or ideas? Tips or tricks that others are using to keep a handle on this? Or, am I the only one who is crazy enough to download over 3000 recolors?

D

My downloads folder (13,500 files and counting) :lol:
2000 walls and floors waiting for a multi sims2package installer to be created.

[pinhead]

Never change the name of the package with objects that was created with OW.
the blue blinking will happen if you do this.

[Mutantbunny]

There's Pinhead! Hi there! Did you have good hoildays?

Why does changing the outer file name affect the inner file?

[pinhead]

Hi MutantBunny! :)

Well, OW use the custom creation group ID (0xffffffff). This ID show to the game that it need to read the HASH value with the name and set this HASH as a group.

The hash is created by the name of the package. So, if you change the name of the package, you will need to change all the hashes inside the package to match with the new name.

I don't have sure why this happens. This is my theory.

[Mutantbunny]

Well, that makes sense.

I have changed a few names--but not sure which ones I have changed! :) Whenever I dl something new tho--I always run SimPE scan on the downloads folder and check for good/bad files. All my downloads seem to be ok so far.

[dhevynstarr]

I never change any of the names of anything I download, so that shouldn't be the problem. Of course it looks like TSR renames everything, so they might be the root of all my problems. (hmm going to look into that.)
My rosebud collection is disapearing piece by piece, as well as a few others that I have uploaded to the site. The objects that I never uploaded are not having any problems at all. All of the items that are vanishing were created the original, long method. Not with object workshop and the flashing files are recolors that I have downloaded very recently.

I have pulled all my wallpaper, floors and clothing out of my downloads directory to speed up the loading of my game and now I am going to go searching through all the files to identify exactly what is happening. I wish I knew enough about working with the files to write a program to do this, but unfortunately I am at a loss at decrypting the contents of package files.
Back to playing detective I go.

Oh.. and Hi Pinhead!! :howdy:

D

[pinhead]

Well, i just said what could be a problem with objects that were created by OW and be blue flashing objects.

If you said that even with the old method to recolors you have problem, maybe you forgot to change something.. i don't have a clue what could be the problem if i never get this problem. :)

Yep, TSR change the names of the packages but i think that they not change anymore. So, maybe you get some recolors (those were blinking) that was changed the name after created. You can try recreate the package by your own and test it if will work.

and Hi, dhevynstarr! :)

[dhevynstarr]

You were definitely onto something there. At least now I know what was causing all the flashing recolors. My problem recolors are from the TSR site.
I looked through everything that started with TSR and then found a few that were created with OW and as you suggested they were bad. I fixed the hash and the recolors worked. (I think the one that I used as a test actually looked better as a flashing blue bed though.)

Now to just figure out what is causing the older recolors to disappear from game. Back I go .. and Thanks!

D

[trancejeremy]

Hmmmm. I've heard a lot of people mention the flashing blue objects, but the speculation was there were too many (ie, there was a limit to the number). But nice to hear the real reason

[dhevynstarr]

I found the problem with the changing table. (Actually the person reporting the problem found the culprit) Someone made a changing table using mine as the base and didn't change the hash number in the material override section which ended up breaking mine. Pretty much what I was expecting to find.

Maybe there should be one more thing added to the object workshop terms of use agreement. Something to state all objects made with it to be labeled as such and a warning about renaming the files be given with the recolors.

At this point, I personally would prefer to download objects created with OW, than to download one that was manually created by users just so I know that the existing objects won't get broken. (or at least alot lower chance of it.) It would be nice to know which way an object is created without having to open each package file and look.

I guess it is time to brush up on my .NET skills and see if I can figure out how to read in .package files. At least enough to get the basic information of the few fields I want to validate.

D

[daysies]

I also download from TSR and a handful of other sites, and so does this mean I have to go through all my objects and fix them, too? I have downloaded so much but have not had the time to put them into the game to test (it's because I can't stop downloading to stop and test) so I don't know if any of them flash blue (but I know that one did get overwritten).

Can someone put a quick tutorial to go about fixing this? If it's just the means of fixing the hash, then the fix should be easy and I can probably go through all of them rather quickly. I don't use SimPE, and the version I have on my computer is really outdated. Thanks in advance!

[[email protected]]

Is there any way to put our downloads into files to organize them, I have a hugh downloads folder and its really a mess. I don't know which files are which so finding out which ones are blinking and which ones to get rid of is difficult. I would like to be able to put these into folders that my game can still access but then I can see which ones are messing up.. thanks for your help
I will always be me

[daysies]

I started early - so all my files belong in the correct subfolder. The only ones that are still unsorted are ones that come with lots since the Maxis installer renames those files to that lovely alphanumeric garbage and I can't tell what's what with those names. I suggest to start organizing them now, with your new downloads, and as soon as someone is able to get us a real quick tutorial to inspect the existing packages for those hash numbers, then we can probably start tackling what's already out there.

[dhevynstarr]

I have some of mine organized, but now I think I am going to pull everything out and then add them as I want to use them. Even though they are organized, it is difficult to notice when one bed goes missing, when you have 30 or more bed style selections. What makes it worse is there is no way to check without waiting for the game to load over and over. I do have alot of TSR objects that I do need to fix. I wonder if just removing the prefix will fix them. Does anyone know?

D

[[email protected]]

Thanks for the advice... since I have saved all of my zip files I think I will start with a fresh install and then sort the zip files into sections before unzipping them. I know that there are some files that cannot be read if they are in sub-folders inside the downloads folder and there are some that are fine. Can anyone tell me which ones the game will read in sub folders. :confused: Thanks a bunch

[daysies]

You can put hacks, objects, recolors, floors, and walls in subfolders. You can not put clothing and genetics in subfolders. They have to be in the main Downloads directory.

[Carrigon]

The TSR stuff has been bugging me for awhile, not just because they rename the files, but because people test their stuff here, then put the same file on TSR without changing the hash or anything, so you get a duplicate of the file under a different name with the same hash if you're not careful and I think that alone can cause problems. TSR is being irresponsible and so are the people posting there who don't change their own files.

[pinhead]

I found the problem with the changing table. (Actually the person reporting the problem found the culprit) Someone made a changing table using mine as the base and didn't change the hash number in the material override section which ended up breaking mine. Pretty much what I was expecting to find.

Maybe there should be one more thing added to the object workshop terms of use agreement. Something to state all objects made with it to be labeled as such and a warning about renaming the files be given with the recolors.

At this point, I personally would prefer to download objects created with OW, than to download one that was manually created by users just so I know that the existing objects won't get broken. (or at least alot lower chance of it.) It would be nice to know which way an object is created without having to open each package file and look.

I guess it is time to brush up on my .NET skills and see if I can figure out how to read in .package files. At least enough to get the basic information of the few fields I want to validate.

D

I know that some people don't realized that the process have to be made all again if you use a object from other creator as a base. Some people don't understand that and i'm really regretful for give this advice to show an easy way to find the right files to do the recolors. :lonely:
I think that if you like to share, you have to create with right procedure and make sure that you made it right...

So, i'm relly sorry that this happened with you.

About the packages information to develop some tools, you can use the Wiki to learn more about it.

[[email protected]]

You can put hacks, objects, recolors, floors, and walls in subfolders. You can not put clothing and genetics in subfolders. They have to be in the main Downloads directory.


Thank you so very much for your help.. this will help clean up my downloads folder.

So now could you tell me if make up is considered part of the genetics???
Sorry, gotta ask.

Thanks for your help

[crowridgestudio]

As far as I know, yes, makeup is part of "genetics" and can't be put into subfolders.

[dhevynstarr]

Thanks Pinhead,

I have been looking at the Wiki but it all looks like greek to me. My programming specialty is primarily database, web application and client\server stuff.. so getting into decrypting the package files makes me feel like I am over my head. I was just starting to dig into Sims1 files when Sims2 came out.

I figured out a solution to the problem. If it causes a problem, delete it!! That will give me an initial clean up and then when I realize something is missing I can go find it and then figure out what is wrong with it.

I did pull out all my TSR files and all but 3 of my problem files vanished. Happily, pretty much everything that I downloaded from MTS2 caused no problems. :beer:


I probably still have missing objects, but not alot I can do other than spending a month adding them one at a time. I will find them all, eventually.

Back I go for the final cleanup and to look a bit more at the wiki.

D

[daysies]

I finally played the game some tonight (spent most of the time refurnishing so I can look at all my downloaded recolors) and I found so many that were just blue or "invisible." I went ahead and deleted them. I figure, if I can't tell what they are, there's no use trying to find out what they were to begin with! All is not lost anyway. There'll always be more downloads and I can make do with what I have. I've only touched the tip of the iceberg with these downloads anyway. My eyes were starting to cross so I had to stop.

Lynnspayne - An easy way to figure out what goes directly in Downloads is anything that you put together in Body Shop - i.e. hair, makeup, clothes, skins, etc. Anything else can safely go into a subfolder within Downloads.

[crowridgestudio]

I don't get many invisible or flashing objects at all, with maybe hmm...500 or so beta downloads? Maybe because 95% are from here.

I do get disappearing objects, though. My "rosebud" nursery set, one of the early ones, is disappearing bit by bit (I think I only have the crib now,) and also, a whole set of desk chairs, maybe 8 of them, showed up fine in my catalog at first, and are now gone. I figured all this was due to my glitchy game, though...I'm still not sure.

Suzanne/ Crow Ridge Studio

[Inge Jones]

Maybe there should be one more thing added to the object workshop terms of use agreement. Something to state all objects made with it to be labeled as such and a warning about renaming the files be given with the recolors.

Well I think people are making mistakes through ignorance rather than carelessness. We're right near the top of the pyramid time-wise at the moment. The tools have been made by technically-gifted people, and the instructions they give are suitable for technically-competent people. We're still waiting for the technically-competent people to write instructions for technically-literate people who in turn can make a tutorial for generally-literate people who can then populate forums and chat to advise people of all levels who want to recolour regardless of mental status.

PS I downloaded one bedcover - my only user-made bedcover ever, and suddenly I have about 5 more I didn't download!!

[crowridgestudio]

rentechd,

Thanks for offering to send me the name of the "rosebud" set. I installed it too long ago to still have track of it.

I still wish there were a better way to get the word out that certain steps have to be followed to the letter, but I'm hoping for that community installer too, so at least people can keep things that aren't made right out of their games.

[dhevynstarr]

If you do want to find the set, all my sets start with DMM. I am pretty sure the teddy quilt has the same problem, I can't find it in my game. If you have one of the pooh changing tables from TSR (There are 2, only one of them causes the problem), it will cause the rosebud changing table to vanish. The author didn't remove all the references to the rosebud table's hash number. I sent a PM to the author to let her(?) know. I removed the pooh table from my game because it is essentially broken. Assuming that the author will create an updated version, I don't want to have two of them in the game.

Hopefully we will get something to help eliminate this problem in the future. So far it seems like more of an annoyance than anything else. Other than not showing up in game and increasing my load time for objects I can't use, there doesn't seem to be any other harm in it. Unless of course people start uploading lots with the broken objects.. ugh... I exported a lot the other day. No house just a bed and 2 chairs and the lot was over 250M. Luckily I never upload houses.

D

[crowridgestudio]

That's enough to narrow it down for me, dhevynstarr, thankyou. I guess it's time to organize my folders differently than by date alone :-)

Suzanne

[[email protected]]

I finally played the game some tonight (spent most of the time refurnishing so I can look at all my downloaded recolors) and I found so many that were just blue or "invisible." I went ahead and deleted them. I figure, if I can't tell what they are, there's no use trying to find out what they were to begin with! All is not lost anyway. There'll always be more downloads and I can make do with what I have. I've only touched the tip of the iceberg with these downloads anyway. My eyes were starting to cross so I had to stop.

Lynnspayne - An easy way to figure out what goes directly in Downloads is anything that you put together in Body Shop - i.e. hair, makeup, clothes, skins, etc. Anything else can safely go into a subfolder within Downloads.
oohh duh~ why didnt I think of that? I guess its that blonde okie thing kickin in.. thank you so much for your help. you are awesome. :howdy:

[FSMCDesigns]

The TSR stuff has been bugging me for awhile, not just because they rename the files, but because people test their stuff here, then put the same file on TSR without changing the hash or anything, so you get a duplicate of the file under a different name with the same hash if you're not careful and I think that alone can cause problems. TSR is being irresponsible and so are the people posting there who don't change their own files.

FTR I found that TSR was renaming the uploaded files only when OW came about and objects first started to have problems. I contacted them and they took action rather quickly and changed the filenaming procedure. All the FAs were asked to re upload all files to ensure their would be no problems, so the "irresponsible" part is a bit off base, at least in this case.

So if users are having blue or flashing objects, any older object files that start with TSR prefixs probably are to blame.

I see lots of posts from those that have issues with objects not showing up, yet I can't duplicate this. I've recolored nearly every object and they all still show in my game.

What I can't understand is it's relatively easy to use OW for a recolor, why would a user recolor someone elses recolor??

[Carrigon]

What I can't understand is it's relatively easy to use OW for a recolor, why would a user recolor someone elses recolor??

Because people are lazy, or they don't understand that they need to use OW. There are still alot of people out there who do not come here and have no clue. So they think they can just slap some recolor on a recolor and that will be enough. And unfortunately, we're probably going to see this alot for a long time.

[Inge Jones]

Well to be fair, a lot of the recolourers are people who recoloured for TS1, and it would not occur to them to go to a modders forum to find out about recolouring. I mean they didn't go to Hackers' Resource in TS1 days for help on recolouring, they would find their help on places like TSR and N99.

I think the pioneers should be thinking in terms of reaching out to the community with education not just sitting here in the "ivory towers". Yes, the resourceful people can find their way here, but less resourceful people will still wish to recolour and will do so. It's no good wringing our hands and saying we wish they wouldn't, it's up to the people who care about it and know about it to do something to get these people on board.

[crowridgestudio]

I wonder what a good way to get the word out would be?

I'd like to see everyone who wanted to, be able to do recolors, even if only for their own game...

Suzanne

[Inge Jones]

Just keeping an eye on other message boards and giving advice really.

[Simness]

If you have some missing objects is it possible for the user.. ie.. me to change somthing in the missing file to make it unique and therefor work again...

Can I change the GUID or something to make it work properly... I have a few missing files n have been able to identify them n would like to just put them right rather than have to find them n re-download them could take me years lol

:)

[cozmicrain]

uhhummm and on a side note,

I used OW to make a new recliner and couch. put them on a lot then saved the lot to file.
Not only did it include the couch I made with the right file name,
but... for what ever reason it decided to upload every single recolored couch of that type by various other poeple in my game and rename them with huge long numbers. Least that is what clean installer showed when viewing the packaged lot from that. Weird and I have no idea why.

I know as well as Im sittin here, that if I decide to upload that lot chances are every piece of custom furniture on it will blink blue.

[Inge Jones]

I have no advice to give on that automatic uploads business. It was one of the stupidest things Maxis ever decided to do. They should have left us using shopping lists )-:

[trancejeremy]

Well, complaining about this problem being caused by the exchange renaming things is starting on the official boards.

The exchange really needs a re-tool, IMHO. But it took maxis forever to simply show what is included with the lot, and that could have done that from the begining (since the XML file in the sims2pack files says what's in the package...)

[daysies]

I looked through everything that started with TSR and then found a few that were created with OW and as you suggested they were bad. I fixed the hash and the recolors worked. (I think the one that I used as a test actually looked better as a flashing blue bed though.)

Now to just figure out what is causing the older recolors to disappear from game. Back I go .. and Thanks!
Can anyone tell me what the original file naming convention was before TSR made their filename change? I have a ton of stuff from TSR and I want to make sure I can remove them (and fix them or redownload them). Also, do you know what date TSR started posting their fixed OW recolors? That would help me when I redownload the recolors again. Thanks in advance! :D

Edit:
I think I figured it out: The file name starts out with tsr29x*.* That was 372 files for me. I think I can handle that. I had downloaded walls and floors from them but I installed them one at a time before Delphy's multi-sims2pack installer came out.

[kralore]

Can anyone tell me what the original file naming convention was before TSR made their filename change? I have a ton of stuff from TSR and I want to make sure I can remove them (and fix them or redownload them). Also, do you know what date TSR started posting their fixed OW recolors? That would help me when I redownload the recolors again. Thanks in advance! :D

Edit:
I think I figured it out: The file name starts out with tsr29x*.* That was 372 files for me. I think I can handle that. I had downloaded walls and floors from them but I installed them one at a time before Delphy's multi-sims2pack installer came out.

I just did some re-downloading at TSR and it looks to be about January 3rd or 4th that they stopped renaming the files. The other thing to look at is the zip file name, (ts2objects_xxx_file.zip) it looks like any file starting around 900-1000 is no longer renamed. Hope this helps.

Kralore