Are different types of meat more acceptable than others?

[longears15]

I know that we have, and have had in the past, discussions about the morality/immorality of eating meat, the pros and cons of the vegetarian diet, and so forth. But now, a slightly different topic -

Just recently in Australia - I think last week - a butcher was granted a licence to start selling horse meat for human consumption. As far as I know, it's already permissible here to slaughter and export horse meat for the overseas market, it's just not been allowed to be offered for sale on the domestic market. Anyway, to get to the point, this man has been apparently been the subject of various sorts of abuse and death threats by animal rights activists and others - not because he is a butcher, but simply because he is selling horse meat.

A couple of articles here (http://news.theage.com.au/breaking-news-national/gourmet-horse-meat-on-the-menu-in-wa-20100713-1092x.html) and here (http://www.theage.com.au/national/death-threats-for-horsemeat-butcher-20100715-10c9l.html)

I'm vegetarian, borderline vegan (and feel free to state your own dietary preference, just please don't make it central to the debate), but I don't see why the consumption of horse meat is any different to that of any other domestic animal - provided that the animals are slaughtered under humane conditions.

If it's okay to eat meat from cattle, pigs, sheep, poultry, etc., why not horses? If it comes to that - aside from the horrendous conditions conditions under which they are often kept and slaughtered, why do Westerners see it as wrong to eat other animals such as dog? Is it just because we're conditioned to see them as companions rather than livestock, or is there more to it that that? What are your thoughts?

[HystearicalParoxysm]

I think people take issue with horses because they're often considered more like a pet than a food animal - closer to a dog than a cow. They sell horse all over here and it's no big deal - I just don't eat it. And speaking of meat, time to go grill some steaks. From a cow.

[Neerie]

I think part of the westerner culture of food, and in this case meats, has a lot to do, at least in part, with the fact that as humans, food in these regions of the world has been abundant for a long time. When food is abundant, you don't have to struggle to find something, anything, that is nutricious, and so you can allow yourself to become picky.

Horses proved a better asset as a working animal than simply as food, and I think that since they can live for so long, people might have considered it an unworthy fate for an animal that would have served them for so many years to just have them finish as food once they got too old.

So some meats are more accepted as food in different regions of the world, just as some parts of an animal are more accepted as food in different regions. You won't see people eat beef and cows where cows are considered a sacred animal, just as in here you won't see people eating cats and dogs, because they are considered as pets only. Other animals, like rats and bugs (well ok not a mammal, but still a living source of protein), are unpopular in most of the western world because of the "icky" factor, despite them being considered a valid pet (mostly reptiles) source of food (or as pet themselves in the case of rats), yet those are also a source of human food in many parts of the world.

In the end, it all comes down to culture.

[Rectos Dominos]

Yes there defiantly meats more acceptable than others and even brought this is up in the Vegetarian board.

There reasons for the standard vary such as the species being endangered, the practices being used, religious reasons, eaten while still alive or as HystericalParoxysm stated in ours or viewed as pets.

Here is list of the most controversial foods in the world.
http://tripatlas.com/list.html?id=19

I was surprised when I found out the Japanese find the deer taboo.

[Vanito]

Off course eating meat from CUTE animals is far more evil and unacceptable than eating meat of all other animals.

[jooxis]

I don't think eating animals at all in today's world can be totally justified. That aside, I DO think it's worse to eat meat from endangered species or from animals that are more sentient (for example, I find eating dolphin or monkey meat worse than eating chicken or fish).

As for the horse meat - I don't think it's any different than eating pork, lamb, venison, goat, cow, etc...

[grumpy_otter]

I ate horse meat when I was in Italy--and I OWN a horse (He's my daughter's really, but I owned horses most of my life!) I have no problem eating meat that has been raised and killed humanely--so I don't eat veal or foie gras.

My only problem is eating hunted mammals, like whales and dolphins. I think the hunt is painful and distressing for them. I don't think fish have the same intelligence level, so wild-caught fish don't bother me. And I don't approve of deer hunting or trapping. But I think it is okay to raise animals for slaughter as long as their welfare is considered--and that is getting better allthe time.

I would MUCH prefer to be vegetarian--but unfortunately I am a single working mom and have no extra time--so sadly, dinner must often be a hamburger patty and a green veg. My culture makes it pretty hard to eat well for cheap.

Oh--the horse was tasty. Kind of reminded me of a very lean, seasoned beef.

[WayBack]

There's one aspect that I haven't seen mentioned here. As horses are not usually meant for food, people are cautious about eating them and not just for sentimental reasons. In my country, there are basically two ways how the horse could get on a table - the animal broke its leg or the horse is too old to be of any other use. The first case is unfortunate but from the gastronomic point of view, the meat should be okay, but in the second case you are paying for the meat that is old, dry and chewy, certainly not something you would choose deliberately unless you need to save money.

Pets are slightly a different case. At this moment, there's no LEGAL way to sell dogs or cats for food, meaning that their meat haven't been controlled by any authorities. Majority of those animals are strays full of diseases and eating their meat can lead to serious health issues. So, while some people don't eat pets because there are cute and fluffy, for other people it's simply a matter of controlling the quality of their food.

[kennyinbmore]

Off course eating meat from CUTE animals is far more evil and unacceptable than eating meat of all other animals.

Totally disagree. Rabbits and squirrels are cute animals, but very tasty ;)

[Mosomashu]

I'm a vegetarian.

All animals are the same, whether or not they're cute. And none should be eaten, turned into leather, etc. I think it's hypocritical to say it's perfectly acceptable to eat pigs, cows etc. but not rabbits or horses.

[Amtram]

I don't have a problem with the type of animal, but the type of treatment while it's alive and how quickly and painlessly it's put to death. There are certain animals (and insects) that I would find kind of squicky to eat, but that doesn't mean they're not edible.

I've seen the way the Japanese round up dolphins for meat, and it's horrifying. I've seen the Koreans dip live octopus in hot sauce and eat them still squirming. Milk-fed veal and "cage-free" chickens in quonset huts breathing fecal dust are appalling.

Regardless of whether the animals are pets, working animals, or destined to be food, they should be treated humanely.

[Marie.M]

I completely agree with Mosomatsu. Every creature should be treated equally, regardless of brain size or cuddliness.

Also, treatment of animals is not getting better. Watch food inc. Its depressing.

[SuicidiaParasidia]

all i can say is, youll never catch me eating dog or cat. or horse.

for some, who have deep emotional attachments to such creatures, it would be akin to say.... asking them to partake in eating something that resembles their best friend.
or to the extreme: asking a loving parent of 5 to partake in eating child flesh. not THEIR kid, but the type is close enough to qualify for uncomfortable.

as i would not eat anything that resembles my human family members, neither would i eat anything that resembles my family members of different species.

[jooxis]

I know what you mean SP. Because I own dogs, I'm personally super sensitive to people abusing dogs, moreso than cats for example. It goes further than that - because my oldest dog is a beagle, I'm actually extremely sensitive about BEAGLES being abused. I care about all animals but it just "hits" me harder if it's a dog being abused and particularly a beagle.

[Amtram]

That being said, there are cultures that consider it respectful to eat their dead loved ones. Or at least parts of them.

[grumpy_otter]

That being said, there are cultures that consider it respectful to eat their dead loved ones. Or at least parts of them.

Really? Which? I had only ever encountered that in Stranger in a Strange Land--but I did think it was presented as a very loving thing and the idea doesn't bother me. If someone is dead, and you need food? Why not? The Donner Party and the Andes plane crash folks weren't murdering for meat--they were dead already. I would too.

Edit: Only took 15 posts to get to cannibalism! Awesome!

[longears15]

Really? Which? I had only ever encountered that in Stranger in a Strange Land--but I did think it was presented as a very loving thing and the idea doesn't bother me. If someone is dead, and you need food? Why not? The Donner Party and the Andes plane crash folks weren't murdering for meat--they were dead already. I would too.

Edit: Only took 15 posts to get to cannibalism! Awesome! Without doing a search, one that comes to mind is the Fore people of Papua New Guinea - it was believed to be largely responsible for tranmission of a disease called Kuru, which is a transmissible spongiform encephalopathy like BSE (mad cow disease) or Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease.

[missy harries]

It's the way we're raised. We in the west won't eat cat, dog, spider or cricket yet others in the world do and find them all quite tasty, you'd be a canibal if you were raised into that lifestyle.
At the end of the day it's all a point of veiw based on the moral standing of your upbriging and on that note soylant green anyone.....

[kattenijin]

...none should be eaten, turned into leather...

Slightly OT, but the bulk of hides for leather are a by-product of the meat industry. Few animals are slaughtered solely for leather production.

Although I do eat meat, I try to keep it to once a week/week and a half. I believe that most Western cultures eat too much meat, especially in America (and I'm American). I think the inteligence, or percieved intelegence of an animal also contributes to how edible people percieve it.

kennyinbmore: I agree on the rabbit, squirell OTOH... meh! You can have my share!

[Undercovers_Agent]

I know a lot of people will disagree with me on some of this, but eh, it's my view and I'm entitled.

Horse meat has been eaten, perhaps forever. And every year about five million horses are slaughtered for food.
So let's compare that...
HORSES: 5 million a year in the world
COWS: 35 million a year in the US
CHICKENS:8,395,000,000 (eight billion three hundred ninty five million) A year in the us.
So... we eat a lot of chicken. And I must say that I agree with nothing about vegitarianisim and I watch South Park to reinforce it. However back on topic...
There are several incidents with animal activists trying to stop the slaughter of animals such as horses, mostly because they have no clue as to the google button. Eating horse is a religious practice some places, and it is a custom in Tonga to eat horses, so why should it be any different to slaughter them and export them? The answer... Horse meat isn't common. True there are activists trying to stop the slaughter of cows, but if you say try and sell lion at your resturaunt, someone tries to bomb you, just to stop you. SEE HERE FOR REFERENCE. (http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/37861752/)
And there we go, the entire advance is to stop the slaughter of domesticated animals because they can totally survive unprotected. So the only reason why there is a big fuss is because it may become popular, hell give it anoter few months and PETA will say we can't ride horses because it tenderizes the meat. But more importantly, I don't care, and if someone tries to take the meat off of my plate, rest assured the person grabbining it will lose a hand.

[Vanito]

I know a lot of people will disagree with me on some of this, but eh, it's my view and I'm entitled.

Horse meat has been eaten, perhaps forever. And every year about five million horses are slaughtered for food.
So let's compare that...
HORSES: 5 million a year in the world
COWS: 35 million a year in the US
CHICKENS:8,395,000,000 (eight billion three hundred ninty five million) A year in the us.
So... we eat a lot of chicken. And I must say that I agree with nothing about vegitarianisim and I watch South Park to reinforce it. However back on topic...
There are several incidents with animal activists trying to stop the slaughter of animals such as horses, mostly because they have no clue as to the google button. Eating horse is a religious practice some places, and it is a custom in Tonga to eat horses, so why should it be any different to slaughter them and export them? The answer... Horse meat isn't common. True there are activists trying to stop the slaughter of cows, but if you say try and sell lion at your resturaunt, someone tries to bomb you, just to stop you. SEE HERE FOR REFERENCE. (http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/37861752/)
And there we go, the entire advance is to stop the slaughter of domesticated animals because they can totally survive unprotected. So the only reason why there is a big fuss is because it may become popular, hell give it anoter few months and PETA will say we can't ride horses because it tenderizes the meat. But more importantly, I don't care, and if someone tries to take the meat off of my plate, rest assured the person grabbining it will lose a hand.
Southpark tells you killing chickens and cows is "normal" in a very sarcastic way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fOaCTddlng

[el_flel]

I went to school with a girl whose family were travellers. She had eaten hedgehog which I thought was pretty weird at the time, but because I didn't know people ate hedgehog.

It does seem odd that it's more acceptable to eat certain types of meat and not others, but it's what we're used to. I wonder if perhaps the perceived usefulness of an animal is a factor in whether it's eaten. I.e. fewer horses are eaten because they have more purpose for humans (i.e. for transport, etc.), whereas chickens and pigs don't. That's not my opinion but is something I thought about.

[Undercovers_Agent]

Southpark tells you killing chickens and cows is "normal" in a very sarcastic way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fOaCTddlng

I know and I love that episode, I think it's either one or two on my list of favorites.

[iCad]

Speaking from a strictly objective point of view, no meat should be more or less acceptable than any other; it's hard to logically justify it being OK to eat a cow but not OK to eat a horse without, for instance, appealing to emotion. It's even hard to justify eating a non-human but "sapient" animal vs. a non-human but "non-sapient" animal: If they're all kept humanely, in a non-stressful environment and they have no indication that they're going to be killed and are killed instantly and painlessly, it doesn't really matter, objectively, if the creature is sapient or not. So...without bringing things like culture, personal preferences and attachments, and emotion into the discussion, it's not "less right" to kill one animal for food over another. It all comes down to circumstances and personal viewpoint and preferences.

I was a vegetarian for a number of years, although I'm now an omnivore. In my day-to-day life I tend not to eat a lot of meat because in specific cases I don't like it (I don't like either beef or pork, and I don't like most game except that I relish elk for some reason) and in general I don't think it's necessary or healthy to eat a lot of meat. But I have eaten lots of things that Western people consider to be gross because I've been around the world and have deliberately sampled as many cultures as I can while I've been out there. Food is a big part of culture. For this purpose, I put aside my own prejudices for a moment. From a purely taste point of view, I have to say that more predatory species, including cat and dog, don't taste very good to my Western palate that is used to eating fattened, domesticated prey species, but many insects and arachnids are quite tasty. I ate tarantulas in Vietnam that were quite nice once de-haired, and I ate these sugar ants in Africa that were like candy; I couldn't get enough of them. But even in this more "experimental" mode, there is a line I won't cross: I won't eat an endangered species. Meaning mostly that I won't eat whale meat. Or elephant meat because they are both endangered and because they are my favorite animal. :) I also draw a line at eating human flesh. As for anything else, so long as the animals are kept humanely and such...while I might refuse to eat the meat on moral or taste grounds, I don't think it's right to deny someone else the right to do so, particularly if it's part of their culture...although I do think that any enlightened culture should not continue to hunt species that are already struggling to survive.

[grumpy_otter]

Without doing a search, one that comes to mind is the Fore people of Papua New Guinea - it was believed to be largely responsible for tranmission of a disease called Kuru, which is a transmissible spongiform encephalopathy like BSE (mad cow disease) or Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease.

Ugh. Well darn it--I thought I had figured out the perfect way to solve hunger. Now that you've reminded me, I recall hearing about this. Guess it's not good to eat humans as a staple.

[kiwi_tea]

If they're all kept humanely, in a non-stressful environment and they have no indication that they're going to be killed and are killed instantly and painlessly, it doesn't really matter, objectively, if the creature is sapient or not.

ORLY? ...

[jooxis]

it's hard to logically justify it being OK to eat a cow but not OK to eat a horse without, for instance, appealing to emotion. It's even hard to justify eating a non-human but "sapient" animal vs. a non-human but "non-sapient" animal: If they're all kept humanely, in a non-stressful environment and they have no indication that they're going to be killed and are killed instantly and painlessly, it doesn't really matter, objectively, if the creature is sapient or not.

Then you should have no qualms about killing other people (hey, the homeless!) if they're not aware of it and don't even feel it. Sapience matters. This is why I would rather save a dog's life than an earthworm's.

[missy harries]

Then you should have no qualms about killing other people (hey, the homeless!) if they're not aware of it and don't even feel it. Sapience matters. This is why I would rather save a dog's life than an earthworm's.

In the word's of Billy Conally 'If we all ate the Homless, unemployed and ederly we'd solve world hunger as well as the rest of our problems.......'

[Oaktree]

In the word's of Billy Conally 'If we all ate the Homless, unemployed and ederly we'd solve world hunger as well as the rest of our problems.......'

...And get spongiform encephalopathy, while we're at it. I suppose that would solve our problems, too - by making sure that we're not around to have them. :P

[geallach]

The sad thing is that even within animal conservation, some animals are more 'glamourous' than others, and are considered to be worthier of our emotions. A lot of people want to save certain animals for the most petty and stupid of reasons; pandas because they are ever so cuddly looking; tigers and lions are so beautiful; dolphins are so smart. But what about killing a shark just to cut off its dorsel fin and make soup out of it? Ah, well, sharks are not very nice, so it's okay. Aye-ayes and komodo dragons are endangered too, but not many people are bothered about them. I think subconsciously, many people rank our fellow animals in different ways, and this can be influenced by one's culture etc. For example, many people in the west would hate the idea of eating insects, no matter how nutritous they are, and yet in many cultures it is perfectly normal. It is just the done thing. At the same time, those people who would not eat an insect could consider lobster, a poor creature who is boiled alive, a delicacy. It all depends on what one is raised to consider normal. There is no practical reason why a horse is worse to eat than a cow; after all, oxen work the land too. It is just that people not used to horsemeat being the norm consider it a higher form of animal than the cow.

There are, after all, people who would consider eating a fellow ape a little too close to home, yet people do that too, just as there are many people who would find eating beef a repugnant thing to do.The reasons are more psychological. Sapience is not really a fair way to judge an animal either; it is not a cow's fault if it is not as intelligent as a dolphin, or as adorable. It is really no better than judging them on looks.

[Doddibot]

I have no problem with any meat. It's just meat. Long-pork chop, yum.

I do have a problem with the slaughter of sapient animals, like apes (and humans) and cetaceans, for meat. And I'd never eat human unless the person consented to have their body used as food.

I'm also more comfortable with wild hunting of animals than raising them exclusively for meat, which is why I like kangaroo. I feel it's best if the animal has a nice life of freedom with a little pain at the end, than to be kept in captivity for life (even if the pain upon death is less).