Your opinions on surrogates

[HarlequinnRomance]

Don't know if this belongs here or the debate room,so please move it to the appropriate forum,but yet again I have another...interesting topic. I had another thread in the debate room about sex changes and the example of my friend whose a male and believes he's a female. This has something to do with him.

So my friend wants a family. But he's also gonna get a sex change and he wants a family before he can't. Makes sense,sure. He's recently brought this up with me also. He's kind of found a surrogate,but she doesn't wanna use her eggs. What are your opinions on the matter? Do you think the child would have a harder life seeing daddy become mommy and it's real mom may or may not be in their life? How would you explain the situation to the child? And mostly, would you ever help a transgender friend like mine and contribute your genetics?

[simbalena]

How old is your friend?

It would probably be a good idea for him to save his sperm and then have a baby later when he has dealt with the sex-change issue. They are both such major life changing events that it would be extremely difficult to try to juggle both.

A parent needs to be able to give 100% to their child (especially if there isn't another parent in the picture), and he probably wouldn't be able to do that until he's recovered from his sex-change and come to terms with the changes in his life.

If I was going to have major surgery and wanted a child I would wait until I had fully recovered from the surgery. And that's not even taking into account the psychological issues he will be going through.

[HystericalParoxysm]

If I had a very close, dear friend who couldn't have a child, I might be willing to contribute my eggs to them. What gender they'd been born as wouldn't really matter - if I felt they'd be a good parent, and were beloved enough to be like a sibling to me, of course I'd help them if I could. I'd have to be in the life of any child with my genes, at least in some way. But I don't think having a transgender parent would be a big deal - however strange your life, if you're born into it, it's normal for you (says the girl who is her own aunt - and it's not weird for me, it's my life). As long as the child has people that love and care for him/her and is well cared for, hell, I think having a transgender parent could be a good thing - teach the kid to accept people for who they are, even if they're different.

Honestly, I think this debate should be split into two - we're dealing with two very different issues here - surrogates, and whether you'd be comfortable being a surrogate/donating genetics to allow a surrogate to produce a child for someone else... and transsexuals as parents.

[HarlequinnRomance]

Ya,it was mostly gonna be your opinion on this thing that's happening in my life,but I had no idea how to word it into the title. My friend is 23 and has believed he's been a woman for around 2 years. He's also been in the army for the last 4,so he's become kinda lonely being away from everybody and only seeing them once a year,if even. I think,personally,he's ready to have a family and I've suggested freezing his sperm but he told me it only lasted a few days. Whether this is true or not,I dunno. He's also said that getting the sex change would be a LOT of money and he can care for a child a lot sooner than getting the change. I think he'd much rather have a child than actually become a woman though.

He seems willing to put up being in the wrong body for a child or anybody who he really loves. He's even asked me to contribute my eggs,seeing as his surrogate doesn't want to use her own eggs. However I'm only 18 and he seems to think I'm as mature as a 30 yr old to make these decisions XD I wouldn't even be able to comprehend yet how to interact with this child. Or even what he's going to tell it. Mommy just put part of her ingredients to help daddy (or mommy) have you? I'd be concerned the kid might be confused in the awkward stage of mommy used to be a daddy and mommy has always been this way.

[longears15]

With regards to your friend, I'd agree with Simbalena. There's nothing at all wrong with a transgendered person wanting, or having a child, but I think it would be terribly unfair on a child to be putting yourself through a sex change. Obviously I can't put myself in his shoes, or know what the strongest feeling is (i.e., the 'wrongness' of being in a man's body, or the need to have a child), but my feeling would definitely be that if he is going to go ahead with surgery, he should be looking at how to save his sperm until his body has recovered and he is more at settled with who he is.

In terms of surrogacy and egg donation in general - I think it's a good thing. I don't want kids, but at the same time I sort of like the idea of my genetic line continuing and like HP said - if I had a very dear, close friend who couldn't have a child, it's certainly something that I would consider.

[Purity4]

So my friend wants a family. But he's also gonna get a sex change and he wants a family before he can't. Makes sense,sure. He's recently brought this up with me also. He's kind of found a surrogate,but she doesn't wanna use her eggs. What are your opinions on the matter? Do you think the child would have a harder life seeing daddy become mommy and it's real mom may or may not be in their life? How would you explain the situation to the child? And mostly, would you ever help a transgender friend like mine and contribute your genetics?

I would think he should look into preserving his sperm for future use if he is wanting his 'own' family. If he's still only in his 20's, there is really no need to rush into reproduction and family life. Who knows, maybe he'll find someone he falls in love with someday and will have wished he had waited to have children with only them.

If he knows someone who is willing to be a surrogate, then that's great. I still think he should wait on the parenting thing until the sex change thing is worked through though. That would be a lot of stress all at once, especially considering you said he hasn't even told his parents, am I right?

As far as my eggs go, hells no! I had a cousin who called me up and asked if she could have my eggs. I said HELL NO!! :blink:

[fakepeeps7]

I've never really understood the need to propagate my DNA, so the whole surrogacy thing seems a little odd to me. With all the unwanted and parentless children already on this planet, adoption seems a far better (and less selfish) option to me.

As for a transgendered person raising a child... well, I don't really see it as an issue. Kids have to deal with all sorts of confusing situations. It's not the situation, really, but how it's handled. And as far as I'm concerned, the surrogate isn't the "real mom"; she's just the oven for the bun. The person who actually raises the child is the "real mom".

[TRIriana]

As far as my eggs got, hells no! I had a cousin who called me up and asked if she could have my eggs. I said HELL NO!! :blink:

Out of curiousity, why would you refuse?

As to the debate at hand, I see no problem with it. It's completely his choice.

[HarlequinnRomance]

He's already told all of his friends and parents that he's transgender,I know that for sure. I don't think he's unveiled his plan for a child until he can find the right people. And the surrogate would be in no way related to the child. She's literally just carrying the baby around with his sperm and someone's egg.

I've also brought up adoption and some people just wanna have kids related to them. It's not selfish to me,it makes sense,but for some reason he'd rather have a kid that's related. It seems like he's also willing to go around in the body of a guy until the child is 18 or moved out and then get the surgery. I know that he wants a family more than anything,more than actually changing his body into what gender he feels like,so that's probably his plan. Raise his child as being it's 'mommy' and when the child moves out or becomes old enough to take care of itself,he'll get the sex change. Plus the money is really kinda hard to come by so it'd take a long time to save it.

[Purity4]

Out of curiousity, why would you refuse?


She already created four kids that she does not have custody of and I could not live with having a child of mine out there being raised by someone else.

[TristaSeraphim]

So my friend wants a family. But he's also gonna get a sex change and he wants a family before he can't. Makes sense,sure. He's recently brought this up with me also.
I am the friend HR is referring to.

Ya,it was mostly gonna be your opinion on this thing that's happening in my life,but I had no idea how to word it into the title. My friend is 23 and has believed he's been a woman for around 2 years. He's also been in the army for the last 4,so he's become kinda lonely being away from everybody and only seeing them once a year,if even. I think,personally,he's ready to have a family and I've suggested freezing his sperm but he told me it only lasted a few days. Whether this is true or not,I dunno. He's also said that getting I think he'd much rather have a child than actually become a woman though.
He's already told all of his friends and parents that he's transgender,I know that for sure. I don't think he's unveiled his plan for a child until he can find the right people.

It seems like he's also willing to go around in the body of a guy until the child is 18 or moved out and then get the surgery. I know that he wants a family more than anything,more than actually changing his body into what gender he feels like,so that's probably his plan. Raise his child as being it's 'mommy' and when the child moves out or becomes old enough to take care of itself,he'll get the sex change. Plus the money is really kinda hard to come by so it'd take a long time to save it.
HR is right, i have told my friends, family, and pretty much anyone that i meet about who i am. No one but the surrogate, HR, Myself, and a few others know about the plan to have children though.

And i actually hadn't thought about wether i would have a child or get the gender change first, but i suppose she knows me pretty well. Now that i think about it, i would rather have a child than the gender change i and would wait until it was mature enough to know what was going on, or until it was able to take care of themselves before i got the surgery.

[simbalena]

I've suggested freezing his sperm but he told me it only lasted a few days. Whether this is true or not,I dunno.

That's not true, what would be the point of freezing it if it only lasted a few days?

It lasts a few days unfrozen and lasts for years frozen. Embryos can be frozen, but I don't think unfertilized eggs can be frozen (or if they are frozen there is a very high chance that they will be unviable).

[TristaSeraphim]

I thought it lasted only a few days frozen, and pretty much was done soon after it came out, unfrozen. My mistake.

[simbalena]

It lasts a long time if it's professionally frozen, but probably wouldn't last too long if you just filled a few ice cube trays and kept it in the freezer!

[supersimoholic]

regarding TristaSeraphim, I think freezing sperm would be best, I think it can last up to 10 years. But I dunno how much it costs... I think in England you can only have it done for free if you're about to have chemotherapy or something like that, like my unlce. I dunno about other places.

But surrogacy as a whole... To me, kinda selfish. I think if you find out you can't have kids then you should think about adoption. Not only are you saving yourself loads of money and probably 3/4 failures and heartbreak, but you are giving someone a home and loving family who if not for you may have grown up alone.

I know if I found out I were infertile, I wouldn't even think about surrogacy. I mean, of course I'd rather have my own children, but if I couldn't then I still want children, I'm not just gonna give up.

[whiterider]

I too am generally of the feeling that surrogacy, and in fact most other methods of having a child "naturally" (in a sense) are rather pointless when there are millions of kids already living who desperately need a loving family. Wanting kids is about wanting to extend your family, right - and if you care for a kid, love it, bring it up, teach it, help it, scold it, despair of it... it's 100% your kid, surely? But then I don't want kids - I have never had that urge, and I'm not willing to devote my life to a child, nor would I be any good at it if I were willing. There's clearly some emotional motivation, for many people, in having a kid that has your genes. I don't understand for a moment what that motivation is, but it must exist; otherwise there wouldn't be nearly as many people having babies as there are. With that in mind, I see no reason why people shouldn't choose surrogacy, any more than they shouldn't choose to knock each other up.

In terms of donating eggs... I dunno. My genes are likely to contain a neat little set of markers for being batshit crazy, so I wouldn't give eggs to a stranger - but I guess if I knew the person asking well, knew that they could cope if the kid turned out to be like its genetic mum, knew that they would be a good parent and knew that their reasons for asking were sound and that their attempt to have kids was responsible... I'd probably say yes. I guess my answer is quite like HP's, although I'm not sure I'd want to be part of the kid's life more than I do with any friend's kid. But, and this is very important, and please do take note HR - I'd never do it if I had doubts. It's a very unusual situation and I have no idea what the emotional consequences could be; so I wouldn't want to risk doing it if there was a good chance I'd regret it later.

Hi, TristaSeraphim. We've heard a lot about you :p . Quite a few people have given you advice in this thread, and I am gonna do the same, but please please do feel free to ignore it completely if it doesn't work for you.
It's admirable of you put your possible child's happiness and welfare so far before your own; but unhappy parents tend to rub off on their kids, and I know how insanely stressful and painful it is, at times, to be transgender (my ex-girlfriend is transgender - despite us having broken up I still love her dearly, and seeing the everyday crap she has to go through is mind boggling). You're right, of course, about it taking years to save up for a sex change in the US - but have you considered doing the early stages of SRT (sex reassignment therapy), such as getting female clothes, wigs, vocal training, hair removal etc - everything but the surgery, basically - before you have a child? Those things are much less expensive than SRS (sex reassignment surgery), and they'd allow you to live more normally as your child's mummy, removing a lot of the everyday hardships (like being called "sir" at parents' evening). I'm not sure if you can legally change your gender before surgery in the US, but you could change your name; since this is a stage that you're required to go through for at least two(?) years before you can get the surgery in most countries, it seems like a natural step along the way, and it wouldn't interfere too much with your plans for a family (nor would it require you to freeze your sperm).

Whatever you decide, I wish you all the best. :)

*puts hood over mod hat and pretends we're not in the Debate Room at all*

[simbalena]

But surrogacy as a whole... To me, kinda selfish. I think if you find out you can't have kids then you should think about adoption.

I don't see how having a child via surrogacy is any more selfish than having your own child.

[whiterider]

Nor do I, but I can see where that kind of thinking comes from. Having your own child is very much the accepted norm - surrogacy is out of the ordinary. So while most people probably wouldn't say "don't get pregnant, adopt instead", it's much easier to say "if you can't get pregnant, adoption is the best option".

[Rawra]

I won't accept to be a surrogate, because I think I would get too attached to the child. Or, if she/he is a very close friend, I might accept.

[el_flel]

I don't really see surrogacy or fertility treatments as being selfish. Some women have a very strong desire to carry their own children, and from an evolutionary standpoint the purpose of reproduction is to ensure that your genes survive, so adopting a child that doesn't have your genes goes against that. Additionally, you could effectively say the same thing about couples who don't have fertility problems: why bring another child into the world when there are so many that could be adopted? I don't think we should put people down for wanting to have a child that is biologically theirs, even if they have to take further measures to make that happen.

Personally I couldn't be a surrogate because I don't plan on having children for myself, so wouldn't want to carry a child for someone else, however I really admire the women who do it. It's incredibly selfless and brings joy to the couple that they are doing it for.

[Oaktree]

I think adoption takes a lot more than raising a child that is genetically yours. For one, children that are more genetically similar to you, are more likely to be like you, so you would be better equipped to raise a child that you have a better understanding of. A lot of the children in the foster system have behavioral problems that take a certain kind of parent to fix. I don't think every parent is properly equipped to deal with a child that may not have had strong discipline for the first several years of his/her life. I'm not saying that every child in the foster system has problems, or that the children with problems are necessarily bad people for it, but I think that some people simply aren't able to handle that sort of thing.