Mod The Sims - Why is America considered the fattest country?

Robodl95

3rd Dec 2010, 03:41 AM

I've seen many Europeans declare that America is just lazy and we're the fattest nation, but has anyone actually stopped to look at the stats? No doubt obesity is a serious problem in America and other places but we're not the fattest nation and we're not very far ahead of other countries.

Data varies from list to list so I'll use several
Expatify (http://www.expatify.com/news/the-worlds-top-10-fattest-countries.html)
(1) American Samoa, 93.5% (of the population that is overweight)
(2) Kiribati, 81.5%
(3) U.S.A., 66.7%
(4) Germany, 66.5%
(5) Egypt, 66%
(6) Bosnia-Herzegovina, 62.9%
(7) New Zealand, 62.7%
(8) Israel, 61.9%
(9) Croatia, 61.4%
(10) United Kingdom, 61%

As you can see America is far behind the top 2 and less then a percent separates us from Germany and Egypt.

Forbes (http://www.forbes.com/2007/02/07/worlds-fattest-countries-forbeslife-cx_ls_0208worldfat_2.html)

1. Nauru 94.5 (of the population that is obese)
2. Micronesia 91.1
3. Cook Islands 90.9
4. Tonga 90.8
5. Niue 81.7
6. Samoa 80.4
7. Palau 78.4
8. Kuwait 74.2
9. United States 74.1
10. Kiribati 73.6
11. Dominica 71.0
12. Barbados 69.7
13. Argentina 69.4
14. Egypt 69.4
15. Malta 68.7
16. Greece 68.5
17. New Zealand 68.4
18. United Arab Emirates 68.3
19. Mexico 68.1
20. Trinidad and Tobago 67.9

These stats are quite different, after including more pacific islands on the list America has been pushed down to #9. Somehow Germany disappeared (Coming in #43 with 60.1 :wtf: ) but America is still plenty close to other nations.

All other lists I've found are either one of those lists.

So the question arises, why is America viewed by the world as being so obese when we are not the highest by over 20% and not that far from other nations?

And to any non-Americans out there please leave the stereotypes at the door and be open to a real discussion. There are plenty of Americans in a healthy weight zone (Myself being 6'2 132 pounds with a BMI of 16) and it's not like people are stuffing their faces and being piggish about it either.... this is a GLOBAL problem.

mangaroo

3rd Dec 2010, 03:50 AM

So the question arises, why is America viewed by the world as being so obese when we are not the highest by over 20% and not that far from other nations?

Because the population of American Samoa is 67,190 (62,823 overweight people) and the population of the US is 307,006,550 (203,852,349 overweight people). Our fat has more global impact.

appelsapgodin

3rd Dec 2010, 04:02 AM

I guess the USA just got stereotyped. And a Dutchie like me only needs to spend a few minutes on sites like peopleofwalmart to get thorougly scared about obesity. And the countries on the list above the USA are small compared to the total USA population.

American Samoa: - population 2009 estimate: 65,628
Kiribati - population 2009: 112.850
USA - population 2009: 307.212.123

66% of 307.212.123 is a lot more people than 93% of 65,628. So the USA maybe doesn't have most in percentage, but it does in volume. (pun actually unintended.)

I would agree it is starting to become a global problem, but I guess the USA has set the trend.

[edit: I need to type quicker than mangaroo, was too busy checking wikipedia]

RoseCity

3rd Dec 2010, 04:04 AM

Robodl95

3rd Dec 2010, 04:10 AM

Mistermook

3rd Dec 2010, 04:58 AM

It's part of our long term security policy: Eventually everyone on the planet will be too round to strap a bomb around their waist and too out of shape to run away from a smart bomb.

RoseCity

3rd Dec 2010, 05:08 AM

Instead of building that wall along the southwest border, they could save a boatload of money and post signs, 'Turn back. Save yourself before it's too late. We're all fat here. This could happen to you.'

unalisaa

3rd Dec 2010, 05:45 AM

Hands up, when's the last time you saw a TV-programme produced in Kiribati? Yeah, those Kiribatians are faaat, lemme tell you. All that blubber just hangin' out on-screen. Disgusting.

el_flel

3rd Dec 2010, 01:11 PM

I would say that size of the US population in relation to other countries is probably a significant factor in why people perceive it to be the fattest nation. Like people have said, 93.5% of a few thousand people is way less than 66.7% of hundreds of millions of people! Plus it's probably also to do with the fact that it's a very known country. I had never even heard of Kiribati until I read this thread.

But really, I think it's mainly just a stereotype. Like how us Brits apparently either sit around in high-backed leather chairs in our home libraries, wearing tweed and drinking tea with our bad teeth, OR are a cast member of the musical, Oliver. Neither stereotypes are particularly representative.

vhanster

3rd Dec 2010, 01:27 PM

93% of a country being overweight is still 93%, they use percents rather then comparing population numbers for a reason.

For what reason? Depending on where that stats come from, it may biased.

Purity4

3rd Dec 2010, 06:17 PM

Wojtek, to continue your line of thought, frequently processed foods, unnatural foods with unhealthy chemical additives and preservatives, sold in bulk, are far cheaper than organic, fresh, whole, natural foods. Without any land or in a climate unfit for growing your own food, the poor depends on grocery store bulk, processed food because it is what they can afford. Basically, healthier food is more expensive than junk, so those who are poorer generally only have access to crap food, and cannot afford fast food, either, though.

sandymdh

3rd Dec 2010, 06:20 PM

I saw those stats a few weeks ago and in that report they blamed the obesity levels in some of the pacific/Australasian islands to the rise in popularity of U.S. fast food chains. It still blamed the American lifestyle and eating habits on the obesity levels elsewhere as they had been glamourized on TV/Movies etc. Maybe better health education is required...
Also today I read that in the UK (where I am) we spend more on eating out than most places in Europe. And the connection is? We are losing the ability to cook! I have many friends who can't cook - even being fully grown with families of their own. The skills aren't being passed down from generation to generation as much as they used to be. This is probably happening in a lot of countries. With working I certainly don't get as much time to do those type of activities with my kids as I'd like.

wickedblue

3rd Dec 2010, 06:28 PM

To continue on that, Purity4 it's not just a matter of cheaper (sometimes it is, sometime it isn't) but it's also a matter of availability. If you live in a city where public transportation is not available or useful, like I do, and you have no vehicle, you are going to get your food from the source closest to you for the least amount of money that you have to spend. That could mean buying the dollar burger from McDonald's so you can eat now and may not be able to plan for future meals and buy the ingredients for those meals.

Assuming one had access to fresher ingredients and had enough money to buy ingredients for several meals at one time, it is usually cheaper to plan meals and buy fresh than it is to eat processed food or fast food but not everyone has that privilege.

el_flel

3rd Dec 2010, 06:54 PM

^ That's true for me too even in the UK. I live in a university city and despite it being quite large all the proper supermarkets are on on the outskirts where the normal student cannot reach easily (no public transport out there). Instead there are loads and loads of smaller food shops which have the basic essentials and a takeaway restaurant pretty much every other shop. It's far, far easier and cheaper to get takeaway or ready meals from these smaller places than it is to try and scrounge the ingredients for a healthy meal because the selection of produce is so small.

HystericalParoxysm

3rd Dec 2010, 07:26 PM

Indeed, there are a lot of areas in the US with very dense populations (usually lower-income families in "bad" neighborhoods) with very little access to affordable, healthy foods. My dad lives in one such area, where 75% of the grocery stores within a 15 minute drive have closed in the past 10 years, leaving mostly fast food restaurants, convenience stores. The only thriving grocery store in the area is run by Wal-Mart, and there is aisle after aisle of unhealthy processed food in bright packaging, and very little selection of fresh fruits and veggies. So there's very little choice for people if they aren't great cooks.

Also remember that in the US, it's not terribly uncommon at all to drive 40 minutes or an hour (or more!) each way to and from work. If you have kids who have soccer practice or dance lessons or whatever too, then you really may not have much time to devote to cooking a healthy meal at home, on top of all your other responsibilities. There are ways to make it work (like preparing several meals over the weekend and freezing them) but for some people, it can be impractical or they'd rather spend their weekends catching up on other important chores, relaxing, or spending time with their families, especially with so much cheap food easily available at a drive-thru right around the corner.

And of course it's cultural too. There's a glorification of poor eating, in a way. Many of the "comfort foods" that people really enjoy like macaroni and cheese, chicken fried steak, mashed potatoes with loads of butter and gravy, etc., are all loaded with fat, cholesterol, sodium, carbohydrates, and not a whole lot of actual nutrients. Even when fast food places try to offer "healthier" options like salads and wraps (some of which really aren't much better for you than just getting a burger), people don't buy them, because who wants to go to McDonald's and have a crappy salad when you can get a Big Mac for the same price or less?

Fuck, now I so desperately want a 7-layer burrito from Taco Bell! I think the closest Taco Bell is at least an 8 hour plane ride away... *googles* There's one in England... TIME FOR A TRIP!

(For the record, I'm an American, from Texas, living in the Netherlands. I've never been real big on fast food, and I could probably stand to lose 10 pounds, but that's more the result of having a baby and the change in metabolism - before I had my kid, I was skinny all my life. I find it kind of sad here, whenever I see someone who is extremely obese when I'm out and about, almost invariably, if I hear them speak, it's with an American accent.)

lauratje86

3rd Dec 2010, 07:49 PM

There's a Taco Bell in England?! *runs to google* I've never had Taco Bell, even though I've been to the USA a couple of times, and I must admit I'm curious! :-)

I agree with all the people who say that it's often easier/cheaper to eat unhealthily. I am lucky, as although I live in a relatively rural part of the UK, where the local shops are all quite expensive, I do live close enough to a large supermarket to be able to order online and get food delivered, as well as living near to a couple of decently priced grocers. Even so, it still feels easier to get cheap, unhealthy food - most of the 2 for 1 offers and money off deals at the supermarket that I order from seem to be for things like crisps, fizzy drinks, chocolate and alcohol, rather than fruit and veg. As it is I am happy to spend a bit extra to eat healthily, and being a vegetarian as well as coming from a family of thin people means that I actually struggle to gain weight rather than lose it, but I can totally understand why people do by unhealthy food!

And yes, what HP says about "comfort foods". Ask all your friends what they like to eat when they are feeling down, and I bet you hardly anyone says something healthy! I know my answer would be chocolate, ice cream, or doritos. Not exactly healthy stuff there! Even people who eat healthily most of the time tend to like unhealthy comfort food. I know a friend of my Mum's who is very into health food, but whenever she's had a bad day her Facebook status says "Curled up on the sofa with some chocolate!" or something similar. I guess it's ingrained into us from an early age that unhealthy foods are the most comforting....

HystericalParoxysm

3rd Dec 2010, 07:58 PM

It's -terrible- food, but somehow soooo good and satisfying too. Just, uh, make sure there's a toilet available about 6 hours later, and god help any significant other who has to sleep in the same bed with you.

My "comfort food" is a mug of hot tea with a bit of honey and milk... not terribly unhealthy, that... though I will admit to indulging once a year in my dad's Heart Attack Potatoes... Several large potatoes, peeled, boiled, and mashed, with at least one stick of butter, and one 8 oz tub each of full-fat cream cheese and sour cream, whipped with an electric beater until smooth and creamy, and then drowned in cream gravy made from pork drippings. FUCK YEAH MILKFAT

fakepeeps7

3rd Dec 2010, 08:05 PM

Are we talking about the percentage of people who are merely overweight or about the percentage of people who are actually obese? Does anyone have those numbers?

Some of those south Pacific countries may have a lot of overweight people, but I doubt the percentage of "have to call the firefighters to knock down your walls to get you out" obese people is as high as it is in the U.S. Or maybe it is, but because of the smaller population it seems like the issue is smaller, too.

wickedblue

3rd Dec 2010, 08:19 PM

Actually, there's not that many that are obese like the way you describe it in the US, either. These stats are based on BMI which is a bogus method because it does not take into account the frame size or muscle mass of the person. If you are interested, google "BMI project" available at Shapely Prose (which is no longer updated but you can still find it) to see what "overweight" looks like.

Obese and even morbidly obese does not often look like what you have described here either. As an example, I am "morbidly obese" and promise you I would not need to have my walls knocked down to get me out of the house. I move around on my own fat legs just fine. I do yoga, too.

Note: by putting that here I am trusting that the bodies of the people in that video will not be mocked or shamed. The people who contributed to that project are very brave and it would distress me greatly to see them mocked for it.

Rawra

3rd Dec 2010, 08:48 PM

Oh, it is the fattest country? I never knew that...

whiterider

3rd Dec 2010, 09:31 PM

Shelf life is a big part of it too. In general, if you want to buy food at a decent price, you have to buy quite a bit - economy packs are always big ones. That's fine if you have a family to feed, but if you live alone (which is more common in richer countries, such as the US, because many people can afford to pay the rent on their own) then you can't buy those. I'm living alone for the first time and I'm discovering that I can pay 2.30 for twenty potatoes which will all go to waste because I can't eat that many potatoes before they go off, and which I don't have space to store anyway; or 2.20 for a packet of pre-chopped potatoes which will do me two meals and last a week; or 2.50 for a prepackaged chili con carne which is full of additives and salt and contains NO CHILI WHATSOEVER and will last for three weeks in the fridge, but which is a hell of a lot more economical than buying real food which is likely to end up being thrown away.

el_flel

3rd Dec 2010, 09:32 PM

^ Ditto, to all of that.

Purity4

3rd Dec 2010, 09:50 PM

And yes, what HP says about "comfort foods". Ask all your friends what they like to eat when they are feeling down, and I bet you hardly anyone says something healthy! I know my answer would be chocolate, ice cream, or doritos. Not exactly healthy stuff there! Even people who eat healthily most of the time tend to like unhealthy comfort food. I know a friend of my Mum's who is very into health food, but whenever she's had a bad day her Facebook status says "Curled up on the sofa with some chocolate!" or something similar. I guess it's ingrained into us from an early age that unhealthy foods are the most comforting....

I just don't understand this. I have never in my life found or sought comfort in food. I am comforted by talking about my feelings with friends who are kind, supportive and understanding. I eat because I'm hungry, and my food choices are ruled by convenience, motivation to cook, and time, not by a need for comfort.

Purity4

3rd Dec 2010, 09:53 PM

These stats are based on BMI which is a bogus method because it does not take into account the frame size or muscle mass of the person.

.... or bone density. :up: You're totally right about all that, wickedblue.

lauratje86

3rd Dec 2010, 09:56 PM

I am comforted by talking about my feelings with friends who are kind, supportive and understanding.

Oh, I agree. Those are the things that actually bring me comfort when I'm upset. But if someone asked me, in general conversation, "what foods do you eat when you're feeling down?", without even thinking I would reply something along the lines of chocolate, ice cream and doritos! Even though food doesn't bring comfort at all, really, for me at least. It just seems ingrained in my brain (and maybe other people's brains) that "comfort foods" will make us feel better - and these "comfort foods" always seem to be unhealthy.....

mangaroo

3rd Dec 2010, 09:59 PM

I just don't understand this. I have never in my life found or sought comfort in food. I am comforted by talking about my feelings with friends who are kind, supportive and understanding. I eat because I'm hungry, and my food choices are ruled by convenience, motivation to cook, and time, not by a need for comfort.

I don't know whether that makes you lucky for not indulging or horribly disadvantaged for not understanding. I have never sought to relieve stress through alcohol or drugs, but I can understand why people do and then need to wean themselves away from the practice before it becomes an addiction. If you can understand that, apply the same principle to food.

lauratje86

3rd Dec 2010, 10:00 PM

You've never been sick or (depending on your gender) cramping horribly, and curled up on the sofa with a book and your favourite snack? Never achieved something you were really struggling with, and treated yourself to an unhealthy but oh so very tasty dinner as a reward? Comfort food isn't necessarily something you eat because you feel like shit but you're not gonna do anything about it, or share the burden with someone.

That's true. Whenever I finish an assignment that has caused me problems, I buy myself some ice cream as a reward :-) I don't get ice cream normally, because I don't have a freezer, and I struggle to eat an entire tub before it defrosts, but when I've achieved something I'm allowed :-D Having said which, apart from the lack of frozen food I pretty much eat what I want when I want it - turns out that includes ridiculous numbers of bananas! Mmmm, bananas.....

Purity4

3rd Dec 2010, 10:00 PM

I don't know whether that makes you lucky for not indulging or horribly disadvantaged for not understanding.

It could be both, but I meant what I said from a personal perspective, meaning I have never personally felt that way, no judgment of others intended.

whiterider

3rd Dec 2010, 10:01 PM

Purity4

3rd Dec 2010, 10:02 PM

Rectos Dominos

3rd Dec 2010, 10:46 PM

wickedblue

3rd Dec 2010, 11:01 PM

Purity4, I didn't think your comment was judgmental. I actually thought that it must be nice to have such a healthy relationship with food. Not everyone does, at all. My relationship with food is a million different flavors of Fucked Up. I've gotten a lot better but it's still something I have to think about more than I'd like to. So, seriously, good job to whomever gave you such a healthy attitude toward food. I hope I don't fail my daughters in that regard.

Purity4

3rd Dec 2010, 11:10 PM

I did my own search and found this list (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_obe-health-obesity) of worldwide obesity statistics for 2010 which has the United States firmly in first place:

Rank Countries Amount
# 1 United States: 30.6%
# 2 Mexico: 24.2%
# 3 United Kingdom: 23%
# 4 Slovakia: 22.4%
# 5 Greece: 21.9%
# 6 Australia: 21.7%
# 7 New Zealand: 20.9%
# 8 Hungary: 18.8%
# 9 Luxembourg: 18.4%
# 10 Czech Republic: 14.8%
# 11 Canada: 14.3%
# 12 Spain: 13.1%
# 13 Ireland: 13%
# 14 Germany: 12.9%
= 15 Portugal: 12.8%
= 15 Finland: 12.8%
# 17 Iceland: 12.4%
# 18 Turkey: 12%
# 19 Belgium: 11.7%
# 20 Netherlands: 10%
# 21 Sweden: 9.7%
# 22 Denmark: 9.5%
# 23 France: 9.4%
# 24 Austria: 9.1%
# 25 Italy: 8.5%
# 26 Norway: 8.3%
# 27 Switzerland: 7.7%
= 28 Japan: 3.2%
= 28 Korea, South: 3.2%
Weighted average: 14.1%

However, I was searching for obesity rates, not simply overweight rates.

*Obesity rates are defined as the percentage of the population with a Body Mass Index (BMI) over 30. *

*For Australia, the United Kingdom and the United States, figures are based on health examinations, rather than self-reported information.*

I would like to point out, though, that statistics are never the whole truth, as there is always a large margin for error, lack of complete data, etc.

And as wicked_blue pointed out, these obesity rates are derived solely on BMI numbers alone, not necessarily indicating actual cases of obesity.

iCad

3rd Dec 2010, 11:17 PM

There is a lot of Anti-American media in the world so they'll show anything that portrays America and Americans in a negative light not just in terms of obesity but in everything. This being a good example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJuNgBkloFE. The US in my opinion seems to be the only country that it is socially acceptable to criticize and/or hate.

This, absolutely.

Me, I can't understand why someone could or would hate a person based simply on what country they come from. I know a lot of jerks, and not all of them are Americans. Some of them are Canadians. ;)

Seriously, it's stereotyping all around. Sure, there are a lot of fat people in America. I'm no Size 0/2/4, myself, and am quite happy being a muscular, curvy, hourglass-shaped Size 12/14, which is where my body seems to like to be if I'm eating and exercising normally rather than obsessively. But there are also a lot of anorexic people in America and also a lot of healthy and very health-conscious people in America. (My roommate is a workout queen and only shops at health food stores. She is a Size 4.) After all, the whole "fitness craze" started here, too. So...meh.

What I don't like is the assumption that if you're fat, you must be lazy and/or an over-eater. I was once on steroids rather long-term for a medical condition, and I gained almost 70 pounds and ballooned to a size 22, even though I deliberately ate less/better than I usually do because I KNEW that steroids cause weight gain. You wouldn't believe the looks people gave me when I was at my heaviest. Yep, I noticed the people looking at what was in my cart in the grocery store, yes I did... :p People can be insensitive jerks, indeed.

In addition, I lay blame on the American lifestyle for the obesity problem. In our society, some people work two or sometimes three jobs to make ends meet; all they have time for is fast food or frozen TV dinners and they have little-to-no time to exercise. Even in less dire circumstances, usually both parents in a family work. There's no time for one or the other to make healthy meals, plus the kids are often left to their own devices after school and given a choice they will generally choose junk food over healthy food. It also doesn't help that if you eat out, you'll be served a plate of food that, portion-wise, should feed a family of 4, but you feel like you have to eat it all or else you're wasting money. (Me, I eat maybe half and take the rest home.)

And, as has been said, it doesn't help that healthy food is far more expensive than unhealthy food. When I was in college and for a number of years afterward, living the "starving musician" life, my staple foods were ramen noodles and generic mac and cheese. At the time, the ramen was about $.03 a package and the mac 'n cheese $.10. I'd have two or three packages of ramen or a package of mac n' cheese as a meal. Both are full of fat and utterly devoid of nutrition, but it was what I could afford, so it was what I ate.

It also should be noted that in many Polynesian countries obesity is (or at least used to be) the standard of beauty, rather the opposite of the modern West. I'm sure that's why Samoa and Kiribati have such high obesity figures. So for them, it's a cultural thing. Not so much for the US. I blame primarily the lifestyle, as I said.

Six_by_Nine

3rd Dec 2010, 11:44 PM

American accent
As an American, I find this phrase a bit odd, especially coming from an American. But I guess nobody on earth doesn't have an accent, huh?

Anyway, I think the main reason that people think America is the fattest country is similar to how people view celebrities. They view the person's (or country's) personality through a magnifying glass. If it's a comedian who knows a few good jokes, he's suddenly the funniest person on the face of the Earth. But if a celebrity scolds their child, then the celebrity's all of a sudden an abusive parent. The U.S. is "fatter" than Kiribati because the U.S. is a world power, whereas I've never even heard of Kiribati. The U.S. gets more "press coverage" than Kiribati does. Us Americans think that all Canadians eat moose meat and syrup, but that's just because that's what their main exports are. I've never been to Canada, so I have no idea of knowing. Sure, maybe the do eat some moose meat, but I don't think they do for every single meal.

Purity4

3rd Dec 2010, 11:54 PM

As an American, I find this phrase a bit odd, especially coming from an American. But I guess nobody on earth doesn't have an accent, huh?

I find it odd not because I think USAians or Americans don't have accents, but because there are countless American accents in existence, there can not be only one to call an American accent.

whiterider

4th Dec 2010, 12:05 AM

That's true - there are some characteristics which are common to most North American accents though; certain inflections, a sort of nasal quality on some phonemes etc.

appelsapgodin

4th Dec 2010, 12:20 AM

I find it odd not because I think USAians or Americans don't have accents, but because there are countless American accents in existence, there can not be only one to call an American accent.

But then you can usually tell from looking at their fat asses....

*ZING, BOOM*

*appelsapgodin runs and hides, because now she remembers those fatties have guns too*

Purity4

4th Dec 2010, 12:22 AM

But then you can usually tell from looking at their fat asses....

*ZING, BOOM*

*appelsapgodin runs and hides, because now she remembers those fatties have guns too*
:rofl:
:help: <---applesapgodin

RoseCity

4th Dec 2010, 12:36 AM

There is that standard American accent, I guess Mid-Atlantic or Midwest that people on tv have.
But my very most favorite American accent is the Cranston, RI accent of Peter Griffin on Family Guy.

wickedblue

4th Dec 2010, 12:37 AM

Well, there's not one british accent either. And I'm sure the same could be said for pretty much any country. Different regions of the country have different dialects.

But that's so far off topic...

Quick. Someone post more statistics. Or something.

mangaroo

4th Dec 2010, 01:37 AM

I did my own search and found this list (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_obe-health-obesity) of worldwide obesity statistics for 2010 which has the United States firmly in first place:
[snip]
I would like to point out, though, that statistics are never the whole truth, as there is always a large margin for error, lack of complete data, etc.

In this case, the data was derived solely from the 33 member countries of the OECD, which explains why the Pacific Island nations that rank so high in the lists in the original post are absent. So, lack of complete data definitely plays a role when casting the US as the "fattest nation." (I don't believe the OECD is "erasing" the island nations; those areas are just not part of their mandate.)

Rectos Dominos

4th Dec 2010, 01:56 AM

Us Americans think that all Canadians eat moose meat and syrup, but that's just because that's what their main exports are. I've never been to Canada, so I have no idea of knowing. Sure, maybe the do eat some moose meat, but I don't think they do for every single meal.

I have never had moose meat in fact I never even heard of it till now, my favorite syrup is Aunt Jemima Lite (my American-Hating Dad is questioning my patriotism). Don't forget some think we call ham bacon.

I often go for Lite's since I see no difference in taste for the most part compared to regular so why not have what's healthier but I do not like diet soft drinks.

pinketamine

4th Dec 2010, 03:26 AM

Me, I can't understand why someone could or would hate a person based simply on what country they come from.

Some people (like me) don't hate the Americans or America in general, but don't like how US has historically been thinking it is the most important country in the world and everyone must do what their government wants. Sorry, but I can't agree with this.

Back on topic, I remembered that I traveled to Boston and was with a family there for 1 month. I sometimes had to buy food and I didn't have much money for it so... I went to the supermarket and picked the cheapest things, which happened to be bagels, donuts, burgers and those things. I gained 5 kilos (11 pounds) in a month. I guess there are many people who only can afford shitty food. I guess it is a lifestyle problem, not only in the USA but in other countries too, people don't have enough time for cooking and eating in a healthy way.

fingerelevenii

4th Dec 2010, 04:42 AM

Us Americans think that all Canadians eat moose meat and syrup, but that's just because that's what their main exports are. I've never been to Canada, so I have no idea of knowing. Sure, maybe the do eat some moose meat, but I don't think they do for every single meal.

I'm Canadian and I didn't even know that we could buy moose meat! So making exportation of it... wtf? Quebec maple syrup is indeed the best in the world !

And why we think US people are fat... because it's easier to stop at McDonald when coming from work than making family dinner... laziness.

Robodl95

4th Dec 2010, 04:52 AM

For one a lot of people never heard of Samoa or Kiribati and also in most developing countries you're more likely to find somebody starving than obese. Whenever I go to the US I see many kinds of junk food that I have never seen in my country and have taken a few home with me back to Canada.

There is a lot of Anti-American media in the world so they'll show anything that portrays America and Americans in a negative light not just in terms of obesity but in everything. This being a good example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJuNgBkloFE. The US in my opinion seems to be the only country that it is socially acceptable to criticize and/or hate.

No actually the problem is that they don't have access to HEALTHY food being stuck with fast food and other "bad stuff"

I find it really ironic that Americans get so much of a bad rap when you consider the contributions we've made to society... We aren't #5 in GDP (May I add that the UK is 19th) by being lazy! Did you also ever look at the fact that Americans work the longest hours out of any industrialized nation?

That video is really stupid, any person can go out and ask people questions editing out the results so that only the really stupid people show. You should not base Americans on a youtube video ;) oh and speaking of which to prove my point.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9dCwwzXC4I

But then you can usually tell from looking at their fat asses....

*ZING, BOOM*

*appelsapgodin runs and hides, because now she remembers those fatties have guns too*

You mean those guns that helped the allies win the world wars? The guns that kicked the British's butts in the revolution (with a big thank you to France :D )? The guns that have been crucial to the world economy/progress for the last 400 some years? You're exactly the kind of ignorant (not to mention insulting) person that I asked to keep away from this thread.

pinketamine

4th Dec 2010, 05:05 AM

You mean those guns that helped the allies win the world wars? The guns that kicked the British's butts in the revolution (with a big thank you to France :D )? The guns that have been crucial to the world economy/progress for the last 400 some years? You're exactly the kind of ignorant (not to mention insulting) person that I asked to keep away from this thread.

400 years ago the United States did not exist as a country. You could remember the guns who helped creating dictatorships all around the world, because they were the same.

paksetti

4th Dec 2010, 05:15 AM

Yeah, you could call it laziness. But it's not exactly easy to make healthy food every night when you work late and have very little to work with. I cook a nice meal when I'm off, but I only have the luxury of fresh vegetables once every two weeks, because that's when the paychecks come in. Your choices are either schwag meat and frozen vegs, or fast food.

(dude, I can't even stomach Taco bell. I only had six dollars to feed two people, so we got that shit. Their "sour cream" is mayonnaise, and their "queso" is imitation American cheese, god.)

Purity4

4th Dec 2010, 05:57 AM

I have never had moose meat in fact I never even heard of it till now.

I've had moose meat, and I've never lived in Canada, although I've been there. The moose meat eating only has happened during the times of my life that I lived in Alaska. Moose are as common in Alaska as deer are in the Midwestern Unites States.

anothereyjana

4th Dec 2010, 08:14 AM

To answer Purity's question, there are a lot of "comfort eaters" out there, who sometimes turn to food when stressed; my mother's one for instance. Myself, I'm the opposite, if I'm stressed or upset I usually loose all desire to eat something until I've calmed down somewhat, and sometimes, if I let myself get too busy or involved in something and loose track of time (and end up accidentally ignoring or brushing aside the subtle signals your body is telling you because you're focused on something else), I can "forget" to eat. Both can be pretty bad for your health, the stress eating for obvious reasons, the second one (the one I have a problem with) because it can screw up your metabolism and blood sugar levels and such because you aren't keeping to some consistent schedule, and because you can sometimes end up eating more in a sitting because you've let yourself get too hungry.
EDIT: Christ, just in the time it took me to type this, a good ten other people jumped in on it! Sorry if it's re-iterating what someone else has already said!

As for the large numbers of obesity within Pacific Island nations, if I recall correctly, within some of them, having a larger body type (what would be considered "overweight" by many other countries and peoples) is culturally seen as desireable. Many other societies in the past have also had similar ideas, such as ancient Greece (at least, for the female half anyway), since back then, having a fuller figure meant that they had more money since they could obviously keep themselves well-fed, and were therefore seen as attractive.

Also, another thing which could explain the "fat American" stereotype is the supposed "intelligence" and/or learning factor. For whatever reason, the idea of body size and intelligence have become somewhat related, ie, fat somehow equals stupid. Think of most of the "dumb" characters out there, many of them are also overweight. As another stereotype about Americans is stupidity, the idea of the average US citizen being overweight as well would end up following on the heels of this.

whiterider

4th Dec 2010, 11:40 AM

You're exactly the kind of ignorant (not to mention insulting) person that I asked to keep away from this thread.Aaaand someone couldn't recognise a joke if it trod on his foot. ;)

RoseCity

4th Dec 2010, 04:42 PM

Sorry if someone already asked this but how do they come up with the obesity statistics? How could they possibly weigh everyone? Sometimes projections based on a sample are accurate but other times, like in this case, I don't see how it could work. On the block where I live, there are a few overweight people but most are of average weight and there's a mix of incomes, races, ages and ethnic groups; it's not just middle class white people.

400 years ago the United States did not exist as a country. You could remember the guns who helped creating dictatorships all around the world, because they were the same.

The US has done so many bad things to the world. Of course before that other countries did so many bad things. But we're the ones currently on top, so we have to take our lumps. When we fall, some other country will take the spot of #1 Asshole.

Purity4

4th Dec 2010, 07:04 PM

Sorry if someone already asked this but how do they come up with the obesity statistics? How could they possibly weigh everyone?

As I noted in my post containing the statistics list, the data was acquired during health examinations, as in when those people went to the doctor and were weighed. This of course, as I pointed out, means there is incomplete data, as we know not everyone can or does go in for their annual health exams. As with all statistics, the numbers are not a reflection of everyone's results, but an average of the results acquired from the group of available data. Therefore, statistics reflect a likely result, but are not 100% accurate.

Rectos Dominos

4th Dec 2010, 07:31 PM

That video is really stupid, any person can go out and ask people questions editing out the results so that only the really stupid people show. You should not base Americans on a youtube video ;) oh and speaking of which to prove my point.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9dCwwzXC4I

Wow :wtf: way to miss the point. Where did I say or implicate that I think Americans are stupid?

The reason I posted this video is because it was good example of Anti-American media not because it "reflects my personal views on Americans" and I don't doubt for a second that it's editing and they only show the stupid ones.

fakepeeps7

4th Dec 2010, 07:35 PM

As I noted in my post containing the statistics list, the data was acquired during health examinations, as in when those people went to the doctor and were weighed. This of course, as I pointed out, means there is incomplete data, as we know not everyone can or does go in for their annual health exams. As with all statistics, the numbers are not a reflection of everyone's results, but an average of the results acquired from the group of available data. Therefore, statistics reflect a likely result, but are not 100% accurate.

This I find kind of scary, because it means that the obesity rates in the U.S. may actually be even higher than reported. Think about it. If you're of a lower socioeconomic group, you can't afford to buy healthy food (or so you've been told), so you're more likely to be overweight. You're also less likely to have health insurance, so you probably won't see the doctor as often (if at all) because you can't afford to do so.

Obesity may actually be under-reported if we take this into account.

Purity4

4th Dec 2010, 08:18 PM

This I find kind of scary, because it means that the obesity rates in the U.S. may actually be even higher than reported. Think about it. If you're of a lower socioeconomic group, you can't afford to buy healthy food (or so you've been told), so you're more likely to be overweight. You're also less likely to have health insurance, so you probably won't see the doctor as often (if at all) because you can't afford to do so.

Obesity may actually be under-reported if we take this into account.

I interpret that differently, that it means the number can be either higher or lower. The homeless I've seen are just as varied in health, diet, level of fitness as any other group of people. It's not just poor people who do not have health insurance. In fact, it's normally middle-class who cannot afford health care. Why? Because poor can qualify for low-income sliding fee scales whereas middle-class not only don't qualify for lower fees, but also cannot afford the monthly insurance premiums available through their work.

Also, it is more likely that those with health problems related to their obesity would seek medical treatment, which could increase the number of obese people weighed at the exams, whereas fit, healthy people may think it's okay to skip their exams since they feel fine.

Therefore, I believe statistics may actually be bloated and that there are in fact fewer obese people than the numbers indicate.

HystericalParoxysm

4th Dec 2010, 08:37 PM

Either way you cut it - whether it's a bit high or a bit low - there's a LOT of fat people in the US. When I've gone back to visit, I notice it a lot... while there's plenty of chubby people here, you don't see a whole lot of people who are literally double the width of a normal person, and need two chairs to sit... Almost never, really, and as I said upthread, the times I've seen folks like that and also heard them speak, it was with an American accent. In the US (at least, in Texas, where I'm from - probably worse than other parts of the country), it's not uncommon to see several people that large on a single outing.

So maybe the numbers are off by a bit, but they can't be skewed -terribly- much, in my experience.

Purity4

4th Dec 2010, 08:54 PM

Or maybe it's a Texan thing, not a US thing, because I could count on one hand how many people I've seen who are as large as two people due to obesity and need two regular chairs to sit on. Two were the parents of a colleague, two were distant step-cousins of mine and one was a man who rode a scooter to get about. And I've lived in a lot of places, including 27 of the 50 United States (yes, including Texas, although I lived on a military base when I lived there), and have lived for 36 years, so although I've been to many places, rural and urban, around the United States, my experience with having seen such morbidly obese people doesn't seem to be the same experience you've (HP) had with the obese people you've encountered in Texas.

And, IMO, Texans talk weird, listening to a Texan accent is like nails on a chalkboard to my poor ears.

Volvenom

4th Dec 2010, 09:51 PM

I have been to the us (that's just a part of America), and the worst meal I had was Taco Bells. I had to through up. Absolutely discusting.

There really is a lot of fat people in the us, I saw them ... and if you want to be on the top like the us, you have to get used to the wind. That's just how it is on the top ... windy.

Where I come from the government do a lot of work trying to make people focus on their health. Like now they are taking back into the school the old tradition of weighing the kids. They stopped doing that because many people found it embarrassing. People need someone to tell them on a earlier stage that you need to take off some weight. Those numbers were also used for statistics. Sometimes I get the impression you don't have a government in the us. Too many private companies start sueing the government if they claim McDonalds food make people fat. That's ridiculous.

In Norway it's also like the authorities sometimes use US conditions as a threat. If you people don't pull yourself together you might end up as them.

Statistics is always the same. They pick a representative part of the population and say they might end up with some % more og less then accurate. That's what they make if the real thing does not exist. It might be wrong, it might be right. I just think you attack the problems in the wrong end. Lots of people from the us has an obiesety problem ... ok, then you start doing something about it. Statistics is only used to pinpoint a problem.

lol, and I'm terrible with dialects and accents, but some people from the us I can pinpoint as being just that.

jooxis

4th Dec 2010, 10:10 PM

I can't really say much about the rest of America, but I've lived in New York for almost a decade and I have seen many, many extremely obese people. Men, women, adults, children - of all races. Here in Serbia I hardly ever see anyone who is overweight, so there must be a huge difference in our daily lifestyles - it seems that food would be the most likely reason though.

Volvenom

4th Dec 2010, 10:20 PM

It could be like those beggers or what. After a while you don't really see them. The same with obiese people, you get use to it and don't really see it anymore. Btw I don't really see gays anymore either, or ugly people. You get used to it, except if you have to move for them all the time of cause.

fakepeeps7

4th Dec 2010, 10:38 PM

I live near the Canada/U.S. border, and there's an immediate difference once you cross that invisible line. It probably doesn't help that this part of Canada is one of the fittest, so maybe we see the difference more. But all you have to do is walk into a restaurant in the U.S. and you can see why Americans get fat so easily. The portions are HUGE and the prices are cheap. It's true that we have most of the chains here (McDonald's, Taco Bell, KFC, etc.) but one thing that we don't seem to have is the monster buffets (all you can scarf for $9.99!).

There are a number of factors that lead to the higher obesity rates, I'm sure. It's not just one thing.

Purity4

4th Dec 2010, 10:42 PM

all you have to do is walk into a restaurant in the U.S. and you can see the portions are HUGE and the prices are cheap. It's true that we have most of the chains here (McDonald's, Taco Bell, KFC, etc.) but one thing that we don't seem to have is the monster buffets (all you can scarf for $9.99!).

That is so true. Huge portions in restaurants.

RoseCity

4th Dec 2010, 11:07 PM

ElementMK

4th Dec 2010, 11:29 PM

When we fall, some other country will take the spot of #1 Asshole.It'd better be those Canadians. Look at them, with their small portions and their universal healthcare and their French and their lack of fat people. Disgusting.

HystericalParoxysm

5th Dec 2010, 09:23 AM

I live near the Canada/U.S. border, and there's an immediate difference once you cross that invisible line.

One word: Poutine!

:rofl:

Srsly though, I lived in Canada for a couple years and while I'd say on average people were a bit chubbier than I've seen in Europe, they weren't as large as I'd seen in the southern US. Even though there's a lot of mixing of culture between Canada and the US, there really does seem to be a separate Canadian culture that is a bit more "European" in feel. Hard to put my finger on exactly what it is - maybe it's the metric system, I dunno. There also seems to be more of a "live and let live" attitude.

And food-wise, more of an emphasis on foods from various other cultures (tons of Asian food, at least in the Vancouver area, which tends to be a bit healthier than other stuff), and most grocery stores have large bulk sections with lots of things like nuts, grains, dried fruit, grind-your-own-peanut-butter thingies, and so on.

Still plenty of snack foods and huge potato chip aisles, but it seems like it's treated with a little more moderation. And in the area I was living, walking places, biking, or taking public transport was often much more popular than hopping in the car.

It'd better be those Canadians. Look at them, with their small portions and their universal healthcare and their French and their lack of fat people. Disgusting.

Naaah, they're all too busy packing into Tim Horton's to put much effort into being assholes. Plus they're all so damned polite!

Volvenom

5th Dec 2010, 12:07 PM

I agree Taco Bell is disgusting - I'm American but I could count on one hand the number of times I eat any fast food in a year.
But if I visited Norway once, for example, and then professed to know all about Norway, you would be justified to think I was a jerk.

Norway is not on the top of the world when it comes to status between nations. That's my point. If you are on the top or want to be there you will be the one everyone points at.

... and I can add to that. From what I hear, US vacations is usually spent in the US. Unless they can afford the long travels. For me it takes a few hours to reach Sweden. A different country. The most exotic country I've been to is Syria (Damascus). I just think it's good for anyone to see other countries. You get a different view of your own country that way. Many Europeans travel a lot, so they get an impression of how things is other places.

kattenijin

5th Dec 2010, 03:25 PM

Two things I feel need pointing out...

One: Obesity is not determined as much by body weight, as by the percentage of bodyweight that is fat. An athelete weighing 210 lbs. at 7% bodyfat is obviously not obese, while a "regular joe" at 210 lbs. and 25% bodyfat definately is.

The average male height in the US is 5'10". If our "ordinary joe" is at that height and weighs more than 174 lbs. he is overweight. If he weighs more than 209 lbs, he is obese.

Two: There are many people who fall into the obese category who do not "look obese" and just look "regular", if maybe a little paunchy. You do not need to be large enough to need two seats to qualify as obese.

RoseCity

5th Dec 2010, 03:41 PM

Norway is not on the top of the world when it comes to status between nations. That's my point. If you are on the top or want to be there you will be the one everyone points at.

... and I can add to that. From what I hear, US vacations is usually spent in the US. Unless they can afford the long travels. For me it takes a few hours to reach Sweden. A different country. The most exotic country I've been to is Syria (Damascus). I just think it's good for anyone to see other countries. You get a different view of your own country that way. Many Europeans travel a lot, so they get an impression of how things is other places.

Obviously, I agree that the US is a logical target since I said that earlier.
The other thing was just that I don't think saying that you visited somewhere is a valid debating point. (And even if I vacation in the US, I'll be encountering different cultures. The culture in the South is different from the culture in New England. The culture in Connecticut where I live is different than the culture in Maine, but they're both in New England. The US doesn't have a monoculture although fast food is present probably everywhere, except little places in the middle of nowhere.)

fakepeeps7

5th Dec 2010, 07:58 PM

Naaah, they're all too busy packing into Tim Horton's to put much effort into being assholes. Plus they're all so damned polite!

The Tim Horton's business model may actually have something to do with why we're relatively svelte. We can get our sugar fix with just a couple of 70-calorie Timbits. We don't have to eat a whole 400-calorie Krispy Kreme.

Plus, tiny little donut holes are just fun.

pinketamine

5th Dec 2010, 08:00 PM

The US has done so many bad things to the world. Of course before that other countries did so many bad things. But we're the ones currently on top, so we have to take our lumps. When we fall, some other country will take the spot of #1 Asshole.

Didn't mean to be offensive to USians in general, I just don't like people ignoring the bad things their country does just because they are OH SO patriotic.

If the statistics are taking into account the index of body mass, they are sure failing, so I don't really trust them. Anyway, obesity is still a very important problem, but I don't think the method used is giving us true rates at all.

My unlcle told me about a really obese girl aged maybe 8 or 10 who was so fat that could not move and she just sat and was given a huge portion of chips and maybe some kind of burger and chicken something and she kept eating, eating eating and when she finished she received a huge 'bucket', as my uncle described, of coke.
If her parents allowed them to do that, they were totally neglecting her. Here in Spain, the social services took a boy away from his family because at the short age of 10, he had morbid obesity and had been in the hospital nearly 50 times due to things associated with his obesity. He could go back with his family later, but the social services were still taking care of how he was advancing.

Purity4

5th Dec 2010, 08:22 PM

We don't have to eat a whole 400-calorie Krispy Kreme.

I have never tasted a Krispy Kreme and didn't even know what one was until I was in my mid-20's, when I saw them and immediately thought, that looks fucking nasty! :blink: I will never eat anything like that.

lauratje86

5th Dec 2010, 09:03 PM

We don't have to eat a whole 400-calorie Krispy Kreme.

I tried a Krispy Kreme doughnut for the first time when I visited a friend in Utah last August. I am still disappointed that I only managed to eat five of them during my entire trip, and that included the three I ate at the airport when I was about to leave! I want to go back to the USA and eat doughnuts and all-you-can-eat lunch buffets, and dinner buffets, and french toast and waffles and muffins the size of my head.

I am actually clinically underweight and really struggle to gain weight. I have managed to gain weight only twice in my life (as in, weigh more without becoming taller; obviously I weigh more now than when I was born!) - once was when I spent 3 weeks in the USA, with the all-you-can-eat buffets and giant portions, and the other was when I spent 3 weeks in Italy and ate a cooked lunch and dinner and several ice creams each day. Both times I lost it again within a week of getting home :-(

It doesn't suprise me at all that many in the USA are overweight/obese - the thing that puzzles me is how so many of them, and so many Italians, aren't! They clearly have waaaaay more self-restraint than me when it comes to tasty but fattening food! :-D

Purity4

5th Dec 2010, 09:14 PM

It's just as difficult to gain weight as it is to lose weight, because both are essentially altering your entire body chemistry, metabolism, and the way your body functions on a cellular level.

fakepeeps7

5th Dec 2010, 10:10 PM

People eat too much crap and not enough nutritious food. Americans are probably no more prone to gaining weight than anybody else. They just have the opportunity to eat a lot more garbage than, say, someone in a developing country.

(It's not something that's necessarily "genetic", because studies have found that immigrants tend to adopt the same eating habits -- and then develop the same diseases -- as other Americans whose families have been in the country for generations. It's the lifestyle and eating habits (and not the body type) that are important.)

Purity4

5th Dec 2010, 10:18 PM

And it's not just the eating habits, but also the daily activity levels. Someone earlier pointed out how other countries rely more on walking and biking to get around, whereas most USains rely more heavily on their automobiles even for a short trip to the corner grocery store or to check their mail down the road.

RoseCity

5th Dec 2010, 10:38 PM

^ Yes, my daughter attends college in Canada and, at least in the city where she is, you see tons of people walking. I walk a lot, and I'm starting to see a lot more people in my town walking, but, in general, Americans need to move around more.

wickedblue

5th Dec 2010, 10:41 PM

This discussion is a really good example of what sets my teeth on edge every single time I have to go out into the world. I know that when the world sees me it is assumed that I am stuffing my face with crap all of the time and never moving when it's just absolutely not true. I'm healthier than my sister who is naturally thin and does eat a lot of crap.

But, I'm fat and she's thin so the assumption is that she is healthy and I'm going to drop dead any moment. I might, you never know, but it won't be from the fat.

You cannot judge a person's health by the size of their body.

RoseCity

5th Dec 2010, 10:47 PM

Wickedblue, I'm sorry if anything I posted made you feel that way. I agree - this topic makes it seem like being overweight is the worst thing in the world. But I'm wondering if part of it isn't because people enjoy any reason to hate on Americans.

wickedblue

5th Dec 2010, 10:55 PM

Don't worry, RoseCity. I'm not offended.

It's true that we have far too much easy access to fast food and that our lifestyles really don't encourage activity. It's seen as a chore, here. All of that is true.

I just wanted to remind people that when they see a fat person, not to make assumptions about our lifestyle or our health. We are a very diverse group of people, like all others and it's really insulting to have assumptions made on appearance when they know nothing.

I don't know if I'm clear. My mind is a mess right now.

Purity4

5th Dec 2010, 11:01 PM

Wicked_Blue, I've been thinking the same thing throughout this thread. It seems to be there is an assumption that if a person is fat, they must be eating crap junk food, and this is just so far from reality.
When I worked at Curves (exercise/fitness gym for women) I came across women of all shapes, sizes, health, fitness level. More often than not, the women who struggled the most to lose weight and lower their fat levels, were not only exercising regularly, but were also eating what is generally considered a healthy diet.
For most of them, they had to increase their calorie intake and protein intake in order to adjust their metabolism so their body would stop thinking they were starving and therefore stop saving every single calorie as fat. In other words, when they began to eat more, and more often, they finally started to lose excess fat.
One simply cannot look at a person's body and know what their diet and lifestyle is like. Every single body is different and reacts differently to even the most basic things. One solution does not work for everyone.

whiterider

5th Dec 2010, 11:46 PM

That's true, wickedblue, and you're quite right in that an awful lot of overweight people aren't looking after themselves poorly - I'm chubby and that's just how I am, it doesn't matter how much I eat or don't eat, or how much I exercise or don't exercise, I stay roughly the same shape. The only time I've really lost a significant amount of weight was when I had glandular fever and couldn't swallow solid food for six weeks.

That said, poor diet and lifestyle is also a common cause of overweight...ness? and obesity. As much as it's not possible to discuss this topic without considering options other than "USians are lazy and greedy", it's also not possible to exclude things like food prices, portion sizes, lack of public transport etc. because they do make a big difference to some people. Also, lifestyle or cultural factors are the most comprehensible reasons for regional variations in average weight - unless someone comes along who happens to know lots about genetics and geography, we have to assume that the reason why there seem to be more overweight people in the US than in some other countries is either because the US has the normal baseline of those who are overweight because of some predisposition or illness (such as diabetes) plus more who are made overweight by environmental factors, or because our perceptions are skewed.

I've walked at least 40min every day since I was 11, and that's not much compared to many I know - is that common or uncommon in the US? I get the impression that the US has very little public transport except in big cities, so I would assume that most US commuters drive from house to workplace/school? It may not seem like much of a difference, but if you walk twenty minutes between door and bus stop/train station each way on a week day, you're actually getting a decent amount of exercise - not enough to become a greasy athlete ofc, but enough that you don't need to do too much more to consider yourself relatively active.

Purity4

5th Dec 2010, 11:56 PM

I've walked at least 40min every day since I was 11, and that's not much compared to many I know - is that common or uncommon in the US?

The answer depends upon whom you ask. It's just not something you can generalize in a country as large as the United States, with so much variety in climate and culture even within one state or city!

wickedblue

6th Dec 2010, 12:06 AM

It wasn't my intention to suggest that those are not factors. For some, it is. And even though I really haven't seen it in this thread too much, I can't help but remind people that even if a person is fat do to their own poor lifestyle, they are worthy of respect. Wojtek showed in that story how cruel some people can be toward fat people and that is the world that I exist in.

I can only speak for my part of the country and I know in some places, it is not like this, but here there is no walking to get anywhere because nothing is in walking distance. There's the residential area of the city and then there's the shops and they are very separate. So, we do have to rely on our cars to get us anywhere. Exercise has to be a deliberate choice for most people and it's often seen as a chore. We have come to associate exercise as a form of punishment for when we've been bad and eaten too much, rather than making activity a part of our lives because it's fun and we feel better when we do. That's in no small part due to the diet obsessed culture we live in.

Purity4, I'm glad you said it so I didn't have to. Because of my status as a Huge Fattie I often get looks of disbelief when I tell people that they should probably be eating more, not less. Bodies Need Energy. I did a lot of damage to my health, as so many have, by trying to force my body to survive on so little for so long while chasing thin. I made a "no diet" contract with my body 2 years ago and have no regrets. I eat what tastes good and feels good and do not worry about calorie intake. That doesn't mean I eat non-stop all day long; it means that I have stopped obsessing over calorie intake and eat foods that make my body feel good and I have removed all moral attachments to food. I still struggle with the disordered eating at times but overall I'm in a much better place than I was 2 years ago.

Purity4

6th Dec 2010, 12:20 AM

@ Wickedblue I'm glad to hear you are choosing to love you and do what is healthy for you rather than chasing the ethereal threads of fitting into society's sad and unhealthy expectations.

@ Wojtec In the before picture, that woman did not look fat to me at all. Her clothing was looser in the first pic, though. I know plenty of people who would agree with me, and plenty who would have disagreed.

wickedblue

6th Dec 2010, 12:20 AM

Yea, she was a little overweight in that first picture. I hope it goes without saying, coming from me, that I say that not as a Bad Thing but just observation.

What I do not understand is why her appearance matters at all? Why is her appearance being discussed and scrutinized when I'm guessing her appearance has absolutely nothing to do with her job.

appelsapgodin

6th Dec 2010, 12:25 AM

Well I wouldn't want to say she looks extremely bad in the first picture, but it isn't a significant look. I kinda think she didn't only lose weight, but that she also had a little nip and tuck done and hired a stylist while in India.

Is there some political agenda here? She seems happy about it, but it is quite a large change. Career move?

ElementMK

6th Dec 2010, 12:57 AM

I tried a Krispy Kreme doughnut for the first time when I visited a friend in Utah last August. I am still disappointed that I only managed to eat five of them during my entire trip, and that included the three I ate at the airport when I was about to leave! I want to go back to the USA and eat doughnuts and all-you-can-eat lunch buffets, and dinner buffets, and french toast and waffles and muffins the size of my head.American food does have that addictive draw, doesn't it? This inspires me to consider a new challenge: Don't knock it 'til you try it. If you can genuinely resist the entire slew of American-style staples, you have every right to criticize our eating habits.

Foods that would have to be overcome would include:

- Oreos
- New York pizza
- Chinese takeout
- Texan steak dinner
- Baby back ribs
- Any American candy

And, of course, the grand poobah of addiction: The McDonald's French Fry.

Good luck, victims!

lauratje86

6th Dec 2010, 01:00 AM

What I do not understand is why her appearance matters at all? Why is her appearance being discussed and scrutinized when I'm guessing her appearance has absolutely nothing to do with her job.

If she's being telling journalists etc that she feels much more attractive now and so on then I assume it matters to her, and if she chose to appear on Dancing With The Stars, which I assume is similar to the UK's Strictly Come Dancing, then I'm guessing that she's probably trying to improve/increase her profile as a career move, like appelsapgodin suggested.

Though I expect she's also doing it to try and make herself feel happier, which is fair enough. To be honest the main thing that I noticed wasn't the weight loss, it was the hairstyle/colour change! :-D And the earrings in the magazine cover photo!

American food does have that addictive draw, doesn't it? This inspires me to consider a new challenge: Don't knock it 'til you try it. If you can genuinely resist the entire slew of American-style staples, you have every right to criticize our eating habits.

Foods that would have to be overcome would include:

- Oreos
- New York pizza
- Chinese takeout
- Texan steak dinner
- Baby back ribs
- Any American candy

And, of course, the grand poobah of addiction: The McDonald's French Fry.

Good luck, victims!

Hehe. I'm not a huge oreo fan, so no problem there. I am also a vegetarian, so that solves the steak dinner and baby back ribs problems. I also don't tend to eat at McDonalds - as a vegetarian there's not much point really! However, Lucky Charms cereal is a definite temptation, along with the Krispy Kreme doughnuts, as I mentioned already. And the all-you-can-eat lunch & dessert buffet I ate at in Salt Lake City - I was on a bus tour so only had a limited time to eat (and the Americans on the tour kept asking me about life in the UK, so I didn't eat half as much as I normally would've because I had to keep answering questions!), but I would happily have stayed there all afternoon eating. And then gone back the next day! And I miss Mexican food, too. Having said which, I had a cracking Indian takeaway from my local here in the UK last week, so there's plenty to tempt me closer to home too!

As you may've guessed, I tend to eat whatever I want, whenever I want it. If I didn't seem inclined to stay scrawny, and wasn't so active (I walk dogs for a living - makes it hard to avoid walking!) I'm sure I'd be overweight by now.

paksetti

6th Dec 2010, 02:22 AM

I also noticed how the media influence us when it comes to our weight. The media is strange. Anna Kalata, a Polish former minister traveled to India, lost weight and came back only to take part in 'Dancing with the stars'. Nobody noticed her before but when she changed her image everybody started being crazy about that. She also kept telling stories about how attractive she feels and how she managed to lose her weight:

Psh. She changed her generic "middle aged woman" haircut to that fringed half-curly blond thing that everyone is getting, bought a better suit, and lost a few pounds.

I'd be less surprised if she took off her glasses, shook out her hair, and all of a sudden she turned into the hot chick at school.

~Dee~

6th Dec 2010, 02:37 AM

None of us are born fat ( not including the few babies what are born weighting way too much) just speaking in general terms.
What happens afterward is up to the parents we have, if we are born to obese parents there is a good chance we grow into obese adults.
Once we are an obese adult it's very hard to break out of that lifestyle because it takes effort and sometimes a whole lifestyle change to lose weight.

I lived in the US for 2 years and I saw a lot of obese people, my 2 sister-in laws included, with them it was a matter of not caring and eating just for the sake of eating, my brother looked at my slim figure and said: " If you stay here, you'll get fat too." I never did, but I knew what he meant.
The first thing my SIL did, take me to McDonald's when I told her I never been, I took one bite and had to spit it out, it was horrid.

I do not wish to offend any Americans here, it's just my personal observations.

Wojtek,
the first pic of your former minister ... she is chubby and looks about 35 - 40 years old.
In the after pic's she looks younger and elegant and happy, and if she is happy what difference does it make why she lost all that weight.

I used to be overweight maybe I was even obese and it took 4 month to get down to my normal weight and a total lifestyle change, that was a while ago but I'm still slim today.
Just eating when I'm hungry and stopping when I'm full and not over eating keeps my weight steady.

Purity4

6th Dec 2010, 06:25 PM

What happens afterward is up to the parents we have, if we are born to obese parents there is a good chance we grow into obese adults.

It's a little more complicated than that.

fakepeeps7

6th Dec 2010, 07:47 PM

It's a little more complicated than that.

Of course it is, but you can't discount parental influence, either.

Purity4

6th Dec 2010, 10:21 PM

Of course it is, but you can't discount parental influence, either.

You misunderstood me, I read that sentence as obese parents create obese people. I certainly agree that parental influence is strong, but imo it's not fat parents that give their children food issues and cause them to find their worth only in how much they weigh, which then leads to unhealthy obsession over it. Rather, it is parents who obsess about looks in general, whether those parents are obese, skinny, fit or not, it's the parents attitude, not girth, that is the contributing factor.

~Dee~

7th Dec 2010, 12:07 AM

I didn't say that all obese parents have obese children, just that they have a better chance to become obese because of the parents lifestyle and eating habits.
The parents don't change their lifestyle or eating habits once they have a child, because they don't see anything wrong with it, so pass it on to the child.
Of course it isn't like that in every family, but in a lot and I realize other factors are involved as well.

If the parents are obese because of genetic reasons, that's a different story entirely.

Volvenom

7th Dec 2010, 02:40 PM

Well I'm very happy that Ms Kalata is enjoying her life but I don't understand why everybody is making so much fuss about that. Did they assume she wasn't happy before?

I agree with those saying she looks good, because she does. Those trousers on the new picture looks too small though.

Psh. She changed her generic "middle aged woman" haircut to that fringed half-curly blond thing that everyone is getting, bought a better suit, and lost a few pounds.

That's about all she did. She took off some of that excess skin she had in her face too. Don't remember what it's called. She looks like any middle aged woman you can see. She has been doing some workout in the gym and got a better posture. All the middle aged women talks between them saying: "see it can be done".

That oversized suit she was wearing in the first picture, made her look bigger then she probably was.

Volvenom

7th Dec 2010, 02:51 PM

Obviously, I agree that the US is a logical target since I said that earlier.
The other thing was just that I don't think saying that you visited somewhere is a valid debating point. (And even if I vacation in the US, I'll be encountering different cultures. The culture in the South is different from the culture in New England. The culture in Connecticut where I live is different than the culture in Maine, but they're both in New England. The US doesn't have a monoculture although fast food is present probably everywhere, except little places in the middle of nowhere.)

It's funny you talk to me about different cultures. As I said I'm european, we have different cultures here too.

... and you know this hole thread is full of europeans being to the us and report back about all these fat people they met everywhere. So perhaps your problem is you have only seen your part of the us, and you're not fat there. That's good for you, let's keep it that way shall we ;)

Purity4

7th Dec 2010, 06:35 PM

Way to go, Romania and Switzerland! :up:

As far as agreeing or disagreeing, my stance is the same as it always is on statistics, which I mentioned earlier up thread.

whiterider

7th Dec 2010, 10:00 PM

Well, it's good that she doesn't care about her weight, but her weight seems to be 100% average from that photo.

appelsapgodin

7th Dec 2010, 10:54 PM

That woman is a little chubby, Wojtek, but still a long, long way from being obese.

This is obese: http://www.accessrx.com/blog/files/media/image/Extreme%20Obesity%20Women%20Swimsuits.jpg [Warning: I did put this under a link for a reason. The picture is save for work, but that's about all I can say about it.]

wickedblue

7th Dec 2010, 11:03 PM

appelsapgodin, why would you post that other than to elicit "omg look at the disgusting fatties"?

From the BMI project I mentioned earlier in the thread: this is obese (http://www.flickr.com/photos/77367764@N00/1454461781/in/set-72157602199008819/).

Just sayin'

And again, in case anyone is tempted to laugh at, mock or shame the people who bravely submitted their picture along with height and weight details, please don't.

Why can't we have a conversation about the original topic without it devolving it a point-and-laugh session at fat people?

lauratje86

7th Dec 2010, 11:10 PM

From the BMI project I mentioned earlier in the thread: this is obese (http://www.flickr.com/photos/77367764@N00/1454461781/in/set-72157602199008819/).

Agreed. Most of the statistics that are being discussed here are using the measure of BMI to define underweight, normal, overweight and obese. As you can see from the (rather interesting) link that wickedblue posted, you don't have to look like the women in the photo appelsapgodin linked to be classed as obese.

I was surprised at how "slim" obese people can be - not that they're thin or anything, but definitely not the stereotypical "fat person".

Maybe the reason that lots of people have been saying "Most people in the US/UK/wherever aren't obese" is because they are using the stereotypical view of obese, rather than the BMI point of view. With the BMI standards, it doesn't surprise me in the slightest that so many people are classed as overweight or obese. The woman in the second picture that Wojtek posted could well be classed as overweight or obese according to her BMI, I wouldn't know, even though she looks "normal" to most people.

appelsapgodin

7th Dec 2010, 11:34 PM

appelsapgodin, why would you post that other than to elicit "omg look at the disgusting fatties"?I typed obese in google, that was the first non sexual picture with the women actually having some standard people fun in them, that's why I choose that. If you think it is funny, then that is your mind doing the thinking and has nothing to do with my opinion.

However, I wonder what you actually want from this topic? Acceptance? Awareness? Change?

I myself never cared about BMI. As you said yourself, it doesn't always work correctly. I am a type 1 diabetic. I've danced the biggest part of my life. I'm 66 kilo's on a length of 1.69 which gives me a BMI of 23 while I have about 15% bodyfat on me probably. I don't need BMI to know if I have a healthy weight, I just need to look in the mirror.

I've been forced by a disease to eat good food all my life. To count carbs and inject the proper dose of insulin. I can listen to my friends complaining about their fat tighs while they scope down a whole pack of Ben and Jerry's. You don't need to be a genius to know that when a body needs about 2000 calories a day, eating 5000 a day is not going to help you maintain a healthy weight.

Yes, I agree that there are people who have bad genes (I know all about bad genes, hence the youth-diabetes (love you, mom!)) or a disease/medication that can make you fat(ter). But how many of the fat people is that? Most people are fat because they eat too much or unhealthy. There can be all kinds of social and cultural reasons that this happens, but that doesn't mean we should just accept it, it means we should try to change those social and cultural causes of obesity.

I don't mind diversity of bodyshape, I know some very attractive chubby women, but there are more and more people who are becoming morbidly obese and I think that is unacceptable.

Because when I look at fat people I see: Diabetes type 2, cardiovascular disease, high blood pressure, vitamin and mineral deficiencies, osteoarthritis, knee-joint replacement surgery, reduced life-expectency. Obesity is one of the most serious public health problems in the 21st century and it is preventable in most cases.

So stigma and discrimination of fat people: bad, bad thing. I wouldn't want to be discriminated because I have a disease too, but that doesn't mean people can be excused from treating it or being aware of its causes and consequences. You cannot just ignore a problem to hope it goes away.

pinketamine

7th Dec 2010, 11:39 PM

Well mass media and people have a different say about that :( The main reason is the same as the one I mentioned above. Mass media creates a portrait of a skinny woman and everybody who is more ... chubby is considered fat :( Unfortunately many people believe in that and mentioning my friend Alicja made sense. I also read that during the communist regime in my country an obese woman was perceived as a friendly person who has good manners and good sense of humor. She was also an example of wealth and hospitality. The popular culture changed that and people portray an obese woman as one who eats hamburgers all the time etc. It is sad. Oh! I think Susan Boyle is a good example of how prejudiced people are. I loved the judges' faces when they heard her singing. That was hilarious :lol:

Bah, some people are incredibly stupid. I read like a month ago or so in the Cosmopolitan magazine (I never read it, but I found it somewhere in my sister's room and felt curiosity ;D) an article about a model who had "brought the curves back to the catwalks", I can't remember the name of the model. The case is that she's a skinny woman who does not even have boobs. It made me think if the person who wrote such a stupid thing didn't notice what she was saying...

wickedblue

7th Dec 2010, 11:41 PM

I typed obese in google, that was the first non sexual picture with the women actually having some standard people fun in them, that's why I choose that. If you think it is funny, then that is your mind doing the thinking and has nothing to do with my opinion.

No, I don't think it's funny but you knew exactly what you were doing.

whiterider

8th Dec 2010, 12:11 AM

Perhaps we should make the distinction between obesity and morbid obesity - the latter being, as I understand it, what the women in the bikinis suffer from.

appelsapgodin

8th Dec 2010, 12:42 AM

No, I don't think it's funny but you knew exactly what you were doing. Facing the reality of the morbidly obese, I'm not laughing. I didn't post it for funny, maybe for shocking... maybe also being a bit annoyed by the OP who seems to lack any humour.

Anyway, while people posted I edited my response above to give my proper opinion of the moment.

wickedblue

8th Dec 2010, 01:00 AM

Which is exactly the point of my response to you. It was posted surely for shock value and adds absolutely nothing to the discussion.

What I want from this discussion? For people to treat others with some dignity and respect no matter what their body shape looks like or how it got that way. None of that matters. They are human beings.

Period.

"I don't mind diversity of bodyshape, I know some very attractive chubby women, but there are more and more people who are becoming morbidly obese and I think that is unacceptable."

What difference does it make whether they are attractive to you? Is that the sole worth of a human being? It's okay for them to be "chubby" as long as they are attractive but they shouldn't be morbidly obese because that's an insult to your eyes?

appelsapgodin

8th Dec 2010, 01:18 AM

They are human beings indeed. However that is no reason to ignore harsh truth. I am against giving obesity a positive image, because there is nothing positive about it. And showing pictures of just over the line obese people, and ignore the rest also doesn't give a correct view on the matter. So I do think it added something to the discussion.

Yes, I find unhealthy unattractive.

wickedblue

8th Dec 2010, 01:23 AM

If you look through the pictures on that link I provided earlier, you see a wide range of bodies with their height, weight and BMI numbers clearly posted and you will see people that are well into the "morbidly obese" range who widely vary in shape and engaged in a variety of activities.

Not all of us classed as morbidly obese are due to drop dead any moment from our fat. Some (a lot) of us are really quite healthy and pretty active.

And again, why does any of it matter? What difference does it make to your life if someone is fat? Whether they are healthy or unhealthy, lazy or active, attractive or not, how does it actually make any difference in your life?

You have a disease, as you posted, so does that make your life less valuable? If it doesn't, then why should another person's life be less valuable because of their health or lack thereof?

appelsapgodin

8th Dec 2010, 01:34 AM

And again, why does any of it matter? What difference does it make to your life if someone is fat? Whether they are healthy or unhealthy, lazy or active, attractive or not, how does it actually make any difference in your life? Yes, let's be selfish pigs and only think about ourselves. Let's just let one half of the world stave from lack of food and the other from too much. Who cares about global warming? Doesn't affect me now, free planes and colemines for everyone. Doesn't affect me so why should I care, I'll probably be dead when we blow up the world anyway.

You have a disease, as you posted, so does that make your life less valuable? If it doesn't, then why should another person's life be less valuable because of their health or lack thereof?No, it makes my life more valuable. Your body is your temple and one should take good care of it.

wickedblue

8th Dec 2010, 01:59 AM

Yes, let's be selfish pigs and only think about ourselves. Let's just let one half of the world stave from lack of food and the other from too much. Who cares about global warming? Doesn't affect me now, free planes and colemines for everyone. Doesn't affect me so why should I care, I'll probably be dead when we blow up the world anyway.

I would like to just point out that I volunteer at homeless shelters to feed the homeless. I donate money to various organizations that aid in feeding those less privileged. I donate money and food to food banks in my area. Don't project a morality judgment onto me based on the size of my body.

And I'm not some odd exception to the rule, either.

No, it makes my life more valuable. Your body is your temple and one should take good care of it.

I eat about 2000 calories a day, including a variety of fruits and veggies and rarely eat junk food. I exercise every day. Because of a chronic pain condition (nothing to do with my fat so don't go there) it's sometimes as little as only 15 minutes but when my legs can handle more, I exercise for 45 mins to an hour and am as active as my pain allows me to be throughout my day.

Again, I'm not some odd exception to the rule.

I do take care of my body and part of taking care of it is not subjecting it to starvation in order to be thin.

Thin does not necessarily equate healthy any more than fat equates unhealthy.

simbalena

8th Dec 2010, 06:25 AM

Don't project a morality judgment onto me based on the size of my body.

Well said, that is exactly what so many people do to overweight people.

Pity they don't realise that their judgments really reflect themselves...they have a choice to be judgmental or not but they're just so lazy they won't even put the effort in to trying to be compassionate and understanding. They just see a delicious victim and can't help themselves without even trying to show any restraint. And being so judgmental and negative is bad for their health which means the taxpayers end up paying their medical bills!

longears15

9th Dec 2010, 09:00 AM

I think that instead of insulting each other we should try to find out why Americans are thought to be fat people. My best guess would be that this is because America, like so many other western nations DOES have a serious obesity problem, but probably is more 'prominent' in the world - through film, music, the media in general, than many other nations?

longears15

9th Dec 2010, 12:56 PM

I don't assume either way with Eastern European and Asian nations, because I don't have enough knowledge about them, but certainly if you consider media and film portrayal they seem to be less 'popular' as you put it. When they are portrayed, they are usually slim.

People can only make assumptions based on what they 'know', whether that 'knowledge' be accurate or not. For example, I'm small, quite fair in complexion and have dark hair, but when I travelled overseas everyone I met had a mental image of the tall 'bronzed Aussie', because that was the mental image that films and other media had left them with. If you have never visited America, but films and newsreels imply that every other person is obese, that's the image you hold in your mind. Or if you have never visited South East Asia, you might imagine that everyone in those nations is small and slim, because that is how they appear mostly in film and television.

I hope that makes sense?

Volvenom

16th Dec 2010, 05:39 PM

Why many people don't see themselves or their country as obiese might be a very natural human thing.

Obiese people don't see themselves as fat either. It's very normal for human's to try and make things look better then it is. You don't wanna face the reality. I have seen tons of reports of how fat americans are, and apparently we europeans is getting fatter too. When I see tons of reports like that, I just accept it as something I need to be aware of. If it's only 1 report ok, but lots of them can't be ignored. It's very easy to laugh of statistics, but not when they come in numbers. 1 report might be wrong but not lots of them. As I said earlier, lets be frank to ourselves and admit we have a problem, otherwise you can't do anything about it.

(I had an BMI of 30 I think? My doctor says I'm now down to something normal.)

fakepeeps7

16th Dec 2010, 07:25 PM

I agree, Volvenom. I've noticed a lot of denial with certain obese people. How many times have we heard, "I'm obese, but I'm perfectly healthy"? That's just not possible. Not in the long term, anyway. If their doctor is telling them they're fine, they need to find a new doctor.

Just because everything is okay in an obese body at 20 doesn't mean everything's going to be okay in that same body at 40 (or even at 30). And some people are still in denial, even when the health problems start to come.

So while it's good to be aware of rising obesity rates and all that, it doesn't really do much good when you think you're exempt and that all that bad stuff only happens to other obese folks. (Kinda like the smokers who think lung cancer only happens to other people...)

malfoya

16th Dec 2010, 07:30 PM

I think one of the main reason for this problem is the big packages of food you get over there... also the meals you order at restaurants comes in bigger portions. And I know that if chilren starts eating some have problems to stop before their plate is empty. I've seen a tv program about this problem.. how people who eats in front of the tv also tends to eat more than they should.

RoseCity

16th Dec 2010, 08:19 PM

I agree I suppose that there are things we can do to try to insure that we are healthier as we age. But there seems to be a belief on this thread that we have control over what happens in our lives. If we just eat the right food and not too much of it - the bad health problems aren't going to happen to us. But I think that idea is an illusion that people cling to because we're all headed to the same place. And I also agree with Wickedblue that how you go forward in your life is your own business and nobody else's.
Edit: And this is just a random example, but my mother-in-law and sisters-in-law were weight freaks who thought about little else and constantly judged others on the basis of how much they weighed and treated me like the family fatty because I wore a size 10. My mother-in-law died of of cancer at age 72 and if you want to talk about cost to society, her bills that Medicare paid ran to the hundreds of thousands of dollars. But she was nice and trim. And my sister-in-law died at age 44 of cancer. But at least she wasn't fat. To my mind, they might as well have eaten what they pleased.

wickedblue

16th Dec 2010, 08:26 PM

Just because everything is okay in an obese body at 20 doesn't mean everything's going to be okay in that same body at 40 (or even at 30). And some people are still in denial, even when the health problems start to come.

:wtf: The same can be said for thin bodies. It's not like us scary fatties are the only people that get old and have our health decline.

As for the rest of your post: I'm not going to lay out my entire medical history as some kind of stellar example that obese people can be healthy but I assure you that I am under no delusions of health as you suggest. As for doctors - they tend to actually blame our fat for all our health problems, even things that are obviously not related to fat. Have a headache? It's cause you're fat. Toothache? Fat. Blurry vision? Well, duh, You Are Fat. So saying that our doctors are lying to us about being healthier than we are is just kind of silly and irrational.

fakepeeps7

16th Dec 2010, 09:56 PM

:wtf: The same can be said for thin bodies. It's not like us scary fatties are the only people that get old and have our health decline.

Okay, then maybe I should rephrase what I said. Obese people are more likely to suffer from weight-related health problems. You can argue to the contrary all you like and point out the exceptions to the general rule, but the fact is that, as a skinny person, I'm less likely to get type 2 diabetes than an obese person. I'm less likely to get blocked arteries and have a heart attack than an obese person. I'm less likely to lose my eyesight or lose a limb or drop dead while climbing the stairs. Could it happen? Sure. But the chances of it happening are lower.

Do thin people have health problems? Of course. But they're generally not the same health problems that obese people suffer from.

As for doctors - they tend to actually blame our fat for all our health problems, even things that are obviously not related to fat. Have a headache? It's cause you're fat. Toothache? Fat. Blurry vision? Well, duh, You Are Fat. So saying that our doctors are lying to us about being healthier than we are is just kind of silly and irrational.

It's not silly or irrational. I was saying that if a doctor said you're healthy, then they're not doing you any favours.

Most doctors, though, would call you on it. And they'd be right. A headache could be a sign of a stroke. Oral health has been directly related to heart health. Blurry vision can be a sign diabetic retinopathy.

It's not a matter of discrimination or hating fat people or blaming them for being the way they are. What really irks me is the denial. Are you going to walk up to someone like Dr. Oz, a heart surgeon who has seen the effects of carrying around too much weight first-hand, and tell him he's full of it? Would you do the same to any other doctor who has plenty of experience watching people get sick and die from preventable weight-related diseases?

Yes, there are exceptions to every rule, and not every obese person is going to die from their weight (although I challenge you to find a few obese 90-year-olds... I have a feeling it would be a bit of a futile search). But the rule is there because of the majority of people who weren't exceptions.

appelsapgodin

16th Dec 2010, 10:11 PM

^What Fakepeeps7 said.

Wickedblue, I am happy for you if everythng is okay, but you cannot convince me that it's like that with the majority of obese people either. You are an exception to the rule.

wickedblue

16th Dec 2010, 10:50 PM

I'll just leave this here:

Don't You Realize Fat is Unhealthy? (http://kateharding.net/faq/but-dont-you-realize-fat-is-unhealthy/)

appelsapgodin

16th Dec 2010, 11:00 PM

What that article, and fat acceptance groups, are trying to do is say that people with a normal weight are fat to prove their point. They talk about folks who go into the category 'chubby' in my book and are indeed not part of the obesity problem.

wickedblue

16th Dec 2010, 11:02 PM

I refer again to the BMI project I linked to earlier. Have a look at what is considered obese and even morbidly obese.

And those articles ARE talking about all fat people - not just what you consider to be "only chubby".

appelsapgodin

16th Dec 2010, 11:09 PM

Then measure them by fat-percentage instead of BMI. I sad before that I don't believe in BMI either because I am in the group of people who have a higher musculair percentage. I don't think BMI is a good way to measure all. However, I still think fat-acceptance groups have a strange agenda.

wickedblue

16th Dec 2010, 11:19 PM

What's so strange about reaching out to marginalized people and telling them that they don't deserve to be treated like shit for who they are?

appelsapgodin

16th Dec 2010, 11:42 PM

As I said before, discrimination against fat people is wrong, but that doesn't mean that if their weight is causing them health problems that they shouldn't lose it.

wickedblue

17th Dec 2010, 12:17 AM

So, again, what's this strange agenda you speak of? Because their agenda is to teach that discrimination against fat people is wrong which you just said you agree with. Yet, you call it a strange agenda. This confuses me.

Yes, *if* their weight is actually causing them health problems then one could say they should lose it. But one could also say that their health problems really aren't my business.

Furthermore...actually Kate Harding has already stated the other point I wanted to make so I'll just use her words. From the page I linked to earlier:

"Poor nutrition and a sedentary lifestyle do cause health problems, in people of all sizes. This is why it’s so fucking crucial to separate the concept of “obesity” from “eating crap and not exercising.” The two are simply not synonymous — not even close — and it’s not only incredibly offensive but dangerous for thin people to keep pretending that they are. There are thin people who eat crap and don’t exercise — and are thus putting their health at risk — and there are fat people who treat their bodies very well but remain fat. Really truly."

whiterider

17th Dec 2010, 12:27 AM

Th-there's a comment on that site about baby-flavoured doughnuts...

Aaand back on-topic... I'm not sure, that article doesn't seem like it's praising obesity exactly. There're some medical claims which I'm gonna ignore simply because it's gone 1am and I don't fancy checking out her sources right now; but the main focus seems to be about respect rather than "encouragement". Everyone knows that smoking is unhealthy, but you probably don't go to your smoker friends - except those you care for very very dearly - and tell them that they should quit. Smokers know that there are health risks, and presumably most obese people do too; it's up to them if they want to run the risk or not, up to them to keep a handle on their health and know their own personal risk factors; they don't need to be evangelised. I think that point in itself is a reasonable one.

That said, it's probably not surprising that there are folks talking about how obese people should do this and that for their health in a debate about obesity: I guess it's not so obnoxious in context.

wickedblue

17th Dec 2010, 12:46 AM

Baby-flavored donuts is sort of in-joke in that community. :)

Edit: Ok, my memory is really, really bad and I was trying to explain where the joke came from but was failing miserably. Then I remembered that it's in the FAQ's-
"Q. What the hell is a baby-flavored donut?
A. The typical fatty’s snack of choice, on account of how we all love donuts more than anything in the world, and also, we’re evil. Obvs."

That's sarcasm... just in case. :)

It's not at all surprising and that's kind of my point. People use every opportunity they can to remind us fatties about what a health crisis we are. So, I take those opportunities to teach.

If anyone finds it obnoxious, well, I would say I'm sorry, but I'm just not. It took me an entire lifetime to find my voice in this world that shames and silences people like me and speaking up against it is the only tool I have.
Edit, again: Oh man, I fail reading comprehension. I totally saw your last line as calling me obnoxious. I fail. And I'm sorry. I need to get off the internet now.

el_flel

17th Dec 2010, 01:14 AM

I highly doubt that people who are overweight need to be told this, but there is plenty of research which shows that appearance does matter to humans, and that people (in general) do judge people more negatively if they are overweight, just based on being overweight. Appearance, I can slightly understand: Bob shows up for a professional job interview unwashed and in a tracksuit and that won't work in his favour. But I find it slightly horrifying that people are so mean to those who are overweight. I'm borderline between "healthy" weight (stupid phrase; just because one's BMI is a certain level is no indicator of health) and overweight and am not very fit at all, yet my aunt who is far larger than me is very fit. She has about a billion dogs which she walks a lot and a horse which she rides so she gets plenty of exercise.

One of my best friends has struggled with her weight pretty much since childhood and it has deeply affected her, which is so sad because she's a lovely person. All based on both perceptions of other people, and her perceptions of how others see her.

fakepeeps7

17th Dec 2010, 01:35 AM

That site just looks like propaganda to me. The claim that fat people live longer? Bull. The article in question was about survival after cardiac events... not longevity. She's skewing things to prove her weak point. Other studies (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18676210) show that an unhealthy weight decreases overall longevity. And there's really little point in living longer, anyway, if you're not going to be aware enough to enjoy it (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/26/AR2008032602253.html).

Again, I'm going to point out the dearth of obese centenarians. If being obese is so healthy (as the "fat acceptance" people seem to claim), why do they tend to die before their skinnier counterparts?

kittielickie

17th Dec 2010, 02:35 AM

chimodo

17th Dec 2010, 04:28 AM

1 - while going from egg to cells to being, a developing fetus will later on in life develop tastes for things similar as to what their mother ate (fact).
2 - All this bullshit about "accepting others" is crap. If you're too fat, you'll die faster.
3 - People make working out a chore, it's not. Then they get insecure about people who look better and call them whores and metro to make themselves feel better.
4 - "Fat" people don't seem to comprehend that there are SOO many little things that they're doing wrong, and that it ALL adds up. i.e. I told my ex to drink only 1 can of soda a day or less and do 10-20 crunches in the morning and doing JUST that he lost 8lb's in 2 or 3 weeks.
5 - People don't take action against weight loss until it's out of control and then give up when they don't lose 40lb's in a month. I gained 8lbs... and although it wasn't noticeable, I knew I didn't gain it through muscle mass as I was going through a lot and was under a lot of stress and missed gym. But I kicked my butt in gear, hit the gym hard core... and I was sore all week but I wasn't a winy little b!7(% about it...
6 - No one is in tune with their body. They don't pay attention to the crap they eat. Do I ever eat McD's? Honestly, yes, maybe 1-2 times a month, and I realize that a SMALL meal is gonna cost me 600 calories and that's if I eat something healthy, so when I'm hungry 20 mins later.. I'll have an apple or something that doesn't clog arteries.
7 - There are ways around getting fast food. There's meal replacement shakes that are actually GOOD for you. You can make sandwiches at home at a fraction of the cost and 1/10 the calories.

I don't even wanna go down the line on this. Because being fat isn't acceptable. It's a SHAME. It's a disgusting way to say "I don't care about myself". It's not just about looks, it's about health and what goes on beneath that flab of fat. It's just as bad as smoking, and saying it's a slow suicide doesn't even cut it. Not to mention the amount of money that's used up by the government to pay for people who are so obese that they can't even work. That's THE dumbest excuse in the world to get free money. Weight gain CAN be controlled, everyone is just too extroverted to look in the mirror and see what they're becoming. And on top of that it's selfish. I'm not afraid to say that I wouldn't date someone that's fat. Why? Because I want to go to the gym for 2 hours sometimes and I want to be with someone who can keep up and not have a heart attack when I wanna do 150 sit ups. And it's not fair towards me if I go to the gym and whoever I'm with just slacks off and dies early from things that could've been easily prevented.

And I get it, well I can go out tomorrow and get hit by a bus and die at 23, but if I don't and I live to a ripe old age of 85 then I don't want to have a nurse change my bed pan.

WE'RE ALL ALIVE.. MAKE THE BEST OF IT. FORGET WHAT YOUR RELIGION PROMISES, FORGET LIVE LIKE THERE'S NO TOMORROW. THERE IS A TOMORROW. SUCK IT UP AND DEAL WITH LIFE AND DON'T WASTE IT BEING A BLOB WHEN YOU CAN BE SO MUCH BETTER.

ElementMK

17th Dec 2010, 04:31 AM

Again, I'm going to point out the dearth of obese centenarians. If being obese is so healthy (as the "fat acceptance" people seem to claim), why do they tend to die before their skinnier counterparts?I've only skimmed the posted article, but it seems to me that the author is defending what is coined medically overweight. True obesity obviously poses serious health risks, and the detriments far (ahem) outweigh the benefits.

chimodo

17th Dec 2010, 04:36 AM

I'm going to start out by saying, I have been fat my whole life. I was born bigger then most babies. I was chubbier then most. I was an active, healthy child. I rode my bike, climbed trees and played outside more then most. I was always fat though. The older I got, the more I was picked on. I feel like i have been teased, abused and torrmented my whole life b/c of my weight. I will never be skinny. I will never meet average standards of weight. I dieted and exersized. I've done just about everything humanly possible to lose weight and fit into societies plan. It has never worked. By the time I was 17, i was a bitter teenager that hated everyone around me that weighed less then 110 pounds. I hated myself more then words could say. This continued on for years. Finally, i did the whole gastric bypass thing. I lost over 150 pounds of fat. It was still not good enough for society. I was still an outcast, a person to make fun of. I got married. I went to a doctor. He told my husband and I that i couldn't have a baby b/c i was fat. I saw women twice a fat as me popping out kids left and right. The bypass actually made me more unhealthy then being overweight did. Now every six months i have to get iron infusions for two months b/c my body doesn't hold vitamins that it needs. now b/c of my need to fit into a world that will never treat me equal, i will not be able to have kids. I do not overeat, i work out and i watch my diet. But i will never be placed outside of the fat category. I'm 31 now, and I learned that there will always be people that judge me.
I have also learned, that everyone is unhappy about the way they look. I could be weight, you nose, you flat butt, it doesn't matter. My best friend is 105 pounds and hates her complexion and her mouth. I think the world will always pick at fat people. it is the last prejudgice socially acepted in American society. It will not go away. You can't make fun of a person b/c of their skintone, but it's allowed to laugh at a fat person.
I know being overweight is unhealthy. I know that it will take it's toll on me the older i get. I work really hard to make sure i don't get any bigger, but losing more seems an impossible feat for me.

I was 12lb when I was born... Now I'm 120 and I hate to say it, but you're accepting the wrong thing. You just have to research and let go of eating for a social reason. People eat breakfast, lunch, dinner, supper.. it's pointless. You have to Feel it. And don't satisfy hunger with a meal, do it with a snack.. and minimize portions over time, and push yourself.. there is sooo much that you can do that's better that's giving up. And you know what, I didn't like being skinny... So I gained weight. I made small goals and reached them one by one and before I knew it, I was right where I wanted to be. Happy. You're supposed to be happy with yourself. Not every guy likes that I have a better stomach than they do, it makes them feel insecure and more than one has told me to gain more weight and stop working out. But I'm happy with the way I look because I WORKED for it. It makes it so much better. Even if it's something little like gaining 1/2 an in on my arms.. Or toning out a certain muscle group. The sec I see the slightest change, I know "I" did it. It's about celebrating those tiny little things that go well, and brushing off the things that don't, that will help.

wickedblue

17th Dec 2010, 11:20 AM

chimodo - no one here asked for weight loss advice.

The person you are replying to has nearly killed herself trying to be what you consider to be acceptable and you are STILL chiding her for not doing enough. Why don't you just let people live their lives as they want to? If you want to live a life obsessing over being thin then go for it, but some of us would like to actually enjoy the life we have.

Lance

17th Dec 2010, 12:45 PM

Now I'm 120 and I hate to say it, but you're accepting the wrong thing. <...>
And you know what, I didn't like being skinny... So I gained weight. <...>
Not every guy likes that I have a better stomach than they do, it makes them feel insecure and more than one has told me to gain more weight and stop working out.
Considering your weight is 120lbs, I think those people were not as envious as you may think.
Actually, I am afraid now to think of what you call "skinny". I suppose that is kinda close to pictures of anorexia.

HystericalParoxysm

17th Dec 2010, 12:57 PM

Depends on how tall they are, Lance. If they're 5'5" (pretty average for a female) then 120 lbs is on the lower side of the normal range, based on BMI. I'm 5'7"ish and used to be about 125 lbs and while I was quite slim, I was not even remotely a skeleton. Body type counts for a lot - on some people that would indeed be very skinny and unhealthy, but for others, it's merely slim.

Lance

17th Dec 2010, 01:20 PM

My girlfriend's weight is about 75kgs, but she does not have any fat on her. Also, she seems to be shorter-than-average.
(I must admit, I do not know what 5'5'' is in metric system :))

Either chimodo is very short with light-type-skeleton, either there is something wrong with her weight.

wickedblue

17th Dec 2010, 01:33 PM

While I strongly disagree with pretty much everything chimodo said, I am still going to stand up for her bodily autonomy as well. It's really not okay to police other people's bodies.

Lance

17th Dec 2010, 01:39 PM

It isn't okay.
But chimodo declared that to have any fat on you is shameful, and then she made an example of herself, while her own weight is pretty close to unhealthy state.

HystericalParoxysm

17th Dec 2010, 01:39 PM

5'5" in metric is 165.1 cm. And as I said, I'm taller than that and weighed just a bit more than 125 lbs and as definitely not skeletal, and nothing was wrong with my weight. I'm also not particularly fine-boned. Looking back at pics of me from back then (best full-body one I can find (http://www.modyourpanties.com/hosting/24556_101217150123chiton.jpg), please ignore the stupid duckface), I looked healthy, my ribs weren't visible, and I felt fine... Though I do like myself with a bit more weight on me, if only because it gives me a nice ass to hold up my pants. :P

Ghanima Atreides

17th Dec 2010, 01:41 PM

Yeah, I'll chime in with what HP said about height and bodytype...I'm tiny (just over 5 ft, or 157cm for fellow metric system users) and have a light skeleton and a figure that tends to be more curvaceous than athletic. As such, I was definitely on the chubby side when I was about 130 lbs. Now at 100ish, I'm slim but not skeletal in any way. So yes, it's really difficult to make blanket statements about what exactly a person should weigh without knowing the specifics.

Lance

17th Dec 2010, 01:45 PM

You all frighten me now ^^

HystericalParoxysm

17th Dec 2010, 01:56 PM

Perhaps, rather than being frightened, you should open your mind to the possibility that you can be healthy (and attractive) with a lot of different body types, and that weight + height does not necessarily give a full, accurate picture of what someone's body will look like. Heck, the poster who started this whole sub-discussion didn't give any height at all - they might be only 5 feet tall (152 cm) for all we know. Doesn't really matter - what's more important is how someone feels, and what their doctor has to say about their weight and general health.

wickedblue

17th Dec 2010, 02:14 PM

HP - I love that picture. It's nice to put faces with names. :)

Lance - I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that no matter how much of a jackass someone is being it doesn't make it okay to be a jackass in return. In other words, even if she is posting really negative criticisms of what other people look like, that doesn't make it okay for us to criticize what she looks like.

Lance

17th Dec 2010, 02:21 PM

wickedbllue, I do not criticize her look, I criticize the example she made. It is just a coincidence she made herself that example.
HP, problem is there are way too many girls who feel unhappy when they are not painfully skinny.

lauratje86

17th Dec 2010, 02:40 PM

HP, problem is there are way too many girls who feel unhappy when they are not painfully skinny.

And some, like me who are "painfully skinny" yet remain that way no matter how much they eat. At 5'7 (170cm) and roughly 105lbs, I'm sure you'd be horrified if you ever saw me in person, and criticise me for being "skeletal" and "scrawny". Yet no matter how hard my GP's try to find things that are wrong with me healthwise they always fail!

120lbs is not that thin for a woman, you know. Depends how tall they are, obviously, but it can be a healthy weight.

In my case, the 105lbs does make me underweight, but I still manage to get wolf-whistled when I wear hotpants, so I guess some people out there don't consider me skeletal and horrifying........

I don't think anyone has the right to tell someone else that they should be a different weight than they are, unless they are that person's doctor and have a valid reason for encouraging them to lose/gain weight. If my GP told me I needed to gain weight, and supported me in doing so, maybe I'd be successful at it, but so far none of them have considered it necessary. At least since I turned 18 and they got over the idea that I had anorexia......... Thin = eating disorder in many people's eyes, even when they're health professionals and should know better.

My Dad was thin as a child too, still is, apparently back then being thin as a child meant that doctors and so on suspected that your parents weren't feeding you!

Lance

17th Dec 2010, 03:17 PM

And some, like me who are "painfully skinny" yet remain that way no matter how much they eat. At 5'7 (170cm) and roughly 105lbs, I'm sure you'd be horrified if you ever saw me in person, and criticise me for being "skeletal" and "scrawny". Yet no matter how hard my GP's try to find things that are wrong with me healthwise they always fail!
<...>
In my case, the 105lbs does make me underweight, but I still manage to get wolf-whistled when I wear hotpants, so I guess some people out there don't consider me skeletal and horrifying........

When I see a painfully-skinny-girl, I start imagine she is starving. I mean, even if I've seen her eating great dinner with three huge dishes of everything just an hour ago, I still will think/behave like she is hungry. That's irrational thing :lol:

Basically, I do not care if a girl is skinny when it is her nature-inspired body weight.
But it is really annoying when a girl eats nothing (and constantly complains she is too fat) because she thinks that her ribs and that hungry expression on her face is going to look more attractive than she is already.

unalisaa

17th Dec 2010, 03:54 PM

I don't think it's fair to approach another person's weight on the grounds of what you feel aesthetically pleasing/unpleasing or attractive/unattractive. People in a public space aren't there for other's viewing pleasure, and treating them like they are is, on some level, pretty objectifying.
That is, it's perfectly alright to think "eugh, ugly person" and look away. But if one catches oneself thinking "Eugh, ugly person, get thee away from my field of vision", I think it's worth stopping to consider the inherent implications of that sentiment.

kattenijin

17th Dec 2010, 05:58 PM

unalisaa

17th Dec 2010, 06:40 PM

If we're going to be pedantic about it, "weight" is a misnomer in the first place -- the proper term is mass.
To clarify my above post (I see how it's imprecise; thank you for pointing it out), I was referring to body size.

fakepeeps7

17th Dec 2010, 06:47 PM

I keep seeing people refer to "weight". I feel the need to point out once again that weight is not the issue, bodyfat percentage is. Two people both weighing 135 lbs will have very different bodies with one at 12% and another at 30%. The one at 12% will generally (yes, not always but generally) be in better shape than the one at 30%, who is obese.

It's body fat percentage, muscle percentage, bone percentage, etc. Lots of factors. Using just height and weight can be misleading, especially if you're on the borderline.

At just over 5' 5" and 104 pounds, I probably sound skeletal (on paper, anyway). But I must have really light bones or something, because I don't look skeletal. You can't see my ribs, and I even have a bit of a tummy. And yet, upon hearing the numbers, people often assume that I have an eating disorder, or that I don't eat at all, or that I exercise obsessively ( :lol: ... yeah, right).

I'd like to point out that, although we're being demonized here as unaccepting or discriminatory or even hateful, skinny people (and even normal-weight people) often face those same judgmental attitudes and assumptions from heavier folks.

kittielickie

17th Dec 2010, 06:54 PM

I'm 5' 11 so, i'm a tall girl. I have a larger frame. Even when I lost all my weight, I was still big. All the people in my family are tall. My aunt is 6'2 and all my uncles are taller then that. I didn't post to get sympathy or anything. My point is, everyone judges people based on how they look. I may be fat, but i'm not a slop. I clean myself up and take care of my body. I just know what my limits are. B/c of my fram and height, a healthy weight for me would be around 160-170 pounds. i'm about 30 pounds more than that.

Being that it's 'shameful' that i'm fat, i'm guessing that some of the posters on here are those people that never had to deal with being overweight or were the ones that torrmented the bigger people in their school/lives.

but yes, i do think that the US is a fatter country. It's too easy to spend $5 at McDonalds and get a meal then go to the grocery store and spend $10 on fresh veggies for a salad.

Zela

17th Dec 2010, 06:58 PM

But it is really annoying when a girl eats nothing (and constantly complains she is too fat) because she thinks that her ribs and that hungry expression on her face is going to look more attractive than she is already.

I don't find it annoying, I find it sad that they feel that way. I am slightly chubby and there are girls at my school who go on diets because they are 'fat' (when they actually aren't). Then there are girls at my school who are so obviously overweight and post revealing pictures on their facebook pages (from very odd and sometimes disturbing angles).
I think there are these stereotypes on overweight people to be lazy slobs (and this is the case for some people) and think this is where the discrimination comes from in certain cases. I don't think people should judge others on appearance, because people will always have different shape bodies. However, in my experiences overweight and obese people seem to have excuses for their condition but at the end of the day you should loose weight for yourself rather than anyone else. After all, obesity comes with a package of illnesses and conditions that could actually lead to a premature death.

EDIT: I don't live in america but in the UK McDonalds are getting a little (just a smidgen) healthier, it appears. Eh, maybe not. Also McDonalds seem to be getting cheaper and cheaper and also be everywhere so I can kind of see why people would just stop off there for a quick, cheap meal instead of, perhaps, getting sometimes a little more nutritional and healthy.

wickedblue

17th Dec 2010, 07:43 PM

It's body fat percentage, muscle percentage, bone percentage, etc. Lots of factors. Using just height and weight can be misleading, especially if you're on the borderline.

At just over 5' 5" and 104 pounds, I probably sound skeletal (on paper, anyway). But I must have really light bones or something, because I don't look skeletal. You can't see my ribs, and I even have a bit of a tummy. And yet, upon hearing the numbers, people often assume that I have an eating disorder, or that I don't eat at all, or that I exercise obsessively ( :lol: ... yeah, right).

I'd like to point out that, although we're being demonized here as unaccepting or discriminatory or even hateful, skinny people (and even normal-weight people) often face those same judgmental attitudes and assumptions from heavier folks.

Fakepeeps, I may be taking something personally that wasn't about me and if that's the case, then apologies but I can't help feel that you are saying that I'm demonizing thin people because of my posts. If you feel that I have, I'm truly sorry for that, it isn't my intention to demonize you or any other skinny person. I have nothing against skinny people, just so we're clear on that. I even have skinny friends. ;)

What you said, that thin people face the judgments too, is very true. It's a tragedy in our society that no one ever looks good enough. Especially women. Even our fucking models - who are supposed to be the standard of beauty- are photoshopped to be even more impossibly beautiful. Cindy Crawford once said something like "I wish I looked like Cindy Crawford". It's an impossible standard to achieve and it's really sad that these are the images pushed on us that we're supposed to live up to.

With that said,as a thin person, you do not have the institutionalized hatred that fat people get and that's the difference. You are not called fat cow while you are walking down the street minding your own business. People don't look terrified that you are going to sit your fat ass down next to them when you step onto an airplane. You don't get unsolicited diet advice from random strangers because you had the audacity to be fat in public. You don't get looks of disgust when you have the audacity to be a fat person eating in public. When you turn on the television, it's not a fucking radical act to see someone who is shaped like you on the television that isn't there as a punchline.You aren't assumed to be lazy, sloppy, smelly or morally bankrupt because of your body shape.

Yes, there are fat people who will hate you just because you are thin and when I have the same opportunity to talk to them like I do here, then I tell them the same things. It's not okay for anyone to judge anybody else on their body size. Period.

fakepeeps7

17th Dec 2010, 08:05 PM

No, skinny people may not experience the "institutionalized hatred" that fatter people get. To be honest, though, I haven't really seen any examples of what you're talking about in real life; maybe the people where you live are just more brazen or rude. The only thing I can really see is the TV thing (and let's face it... overweight or underweight, pretty much nobody looks like the people on TV... not even the people on TV).

What concerns me (still) are the excuses. People look askance at smokers, too, and tell them they should quit because they're negatively affecting their health. If those smokers then decided to start a "smoking acceptance" group, they'd be laughed at for their ridiculousness. The majority of people know that smoking is bad for your health. The majority of people know that carrying 100 pounds more than the human body is supposed to carry is bad for your health. And yet we're supposed to accept all those excuses and watch people harm themselves?

To be clear, I'm not talking about someone who's 20 or 30 pounds overweight. I'm talking about people who are so obese they can barely walk, yet who continue to insist that they're healthy and that it's everybody else who has a problem when they don't want to watch people slowly committing suicide. I don't want to see nice people die from something that's completely preventable.

wickedblue

17th Dec 2010, 08:30 PM

longears15

17th Dec 2010, 10:45 PM

Wickedblue, I can certainly see the merit in what you are saying. Weight loss isn't something that I need to worry about...hey, I'm 5'3 or 5'4 and I've just celebrated getting my weight back over 40kg (that's just under 90lb to you guys in the US).

But - my mum gave up smoking about five years ago now, put on about 20kg and really struggled to shift it. The more she worried about losing weight, the harder it became for her. She's now using that online Weight Watchers plan - which is not a diet as such, but encourages good nutrition, healthy, controlled eating (i.e., just eating what your body needs) and exercise and she's happier, healthier AND losing weight. I've watched her try diet after diet - cutting calories, cutting carbs, those diets where you have to go x number of hours between meals and getting stressed because her body doesn't handle that. Watched her getting sick and tired and run down because of it, her weight yoyo-ing.

So I think, as you say, it's important to remove the obsession about pants/dress size but think it's important that people who are morbidly obese recognise that they are putting themselves at serious risk - and those who are obese on (based on BMI & bodyfat%) do also need to consider their health.

fakepeeps7

17th Dec 2010, 11:12 PM

Actually, I do think it's really rude to preach at anyone about their choices. It's their body, their choice. Smoking doesn't just affect the health of the smoker, though, so there is a difference there. It harms those in the vicinity as well. Last time I checked, fat is not contagious and I am not going to give anyone cancer by being fat in their space.

You might not give them cancer, but you may make them fat: Can a common virus make you fat? (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7851031.stm) There's also the "social contagion" hypothesis, which also finds that being fat can be catching (http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn12343-is-obesity-contagious.html). If it can affect others, it's not really just a personal choice.

Fat acceptance is not ridiculous. They are not telling us to harm ourselves, actually it's exactly the opposite of that, they say that it's okay for us to love ourselves in spite of the messages the world gives us.

You're still missing my point. If you're going to ignore the messages the world is giving you (including the constructive ones), there's not much I can do about it. I don't have any effect on your life, anyway; I'm just some random person on the Internet. But I can't accept that being obese is a natural or healthy state, and that's the idea that some of these activists are trying to promote. I just can't get on board with that. That doesn't mean I don't accept fat people, or that I'd reject them or avoid being friends with them. I just want people to be healthy and happy... and there are a lot of extremely overweight people who are neither.

Dieting is harmful so they teach us that it's okay to stop dieting. But in all of the communities that I am involved with there is a lot of discussion about Health At Every Size - in other words - good nutrition and keeping active to keep healthy - but to take the focus off of weight loss. In fact, I exercise MORE and eat BETTER since I found fat acceptance and stopped torturing myself with diets. Once I stopped obsessing over my fucking pants size, I found exercise to be enjoyable and I do it because it feels good and when I stopped attaching morality to food, I realized I don't actually like to eat crap because it tastes like crap and makes me feel tired and run down an hour later. Fat acceptance groups telling me that it's okay for me to love myself as I am gave me the break I needed from the hatred and made me want to treat my body with the love and respect it deserves.

That's fine. For you. You don't seem to understand that there are a lot of really unhealthy overweight people out there. What works for you might not work for someone else. And if you tell a person who's 400 pounds that it's okay to accept their weight as it is, they might never get the help they need.

In my mind, there's a big difference between accepting yourself for who you are and accepting something that has the potential to make you very ill. Is the fat all you are? Of course not... but one could be forgiven for thinking otherwise when we see the emphasis put on it by some of the "fat acceptance" folks. You're allowed to accept some parts of yourself while also admitting that other areas of your life aren't perfect. It's not all or nothing.

wickedblue

17th Dec 2010, 11:34 PM

If that's the message you think fat acceptance is giving then you have really misunderstood. When you are a fat person, it does tend to become all you are because we are fed the message that we can't be happy or live a full life until we are not fat anymore. Society tells us it is the most important thing we can do - to become Not Fat. We are told we won't find love or happiness until we are Not Fat. Hells yea there's a lot of emphasis on fat in that community because it's often the first time in our life that we hear the message that we can have all those things while we are still fat.

Let me clear something up - I was STARVING MYSELF. Like, 800 fucking calories a day and then I found fat acceptance and was like WHOA I do not have to do this to myself. I could go into a nightmarish amount of detail about all of the ways I have tortured my body over the years because I wasn't good enough. Starting at 8 fucking years old. And I was not even a fat kid but my mother was completely obsessed with every little ounce of fat that appeared on my body plus I was watching her obsess over her own body. So as just a little kid I learned that food is bad and my body is my worst enemy. Most of the people in FA come with similar stories.

The physical damage I did to myself is one thing and I haven't even discussed the psychological damage this does to a person. So, yea, I embrace the message that it's okay to not subject yourself to that.

So, are you actually suggesting that telling someone that it really is okay to not live a life hating themselves, being ashamed of who they are and starving themselves in order to be what society says we should be is a bad thing?

I have not even once said that all fat people are healthy. They aren't. And neither are all thin people. So there's that.

What I have been saying and fighting for this entire time is to not be judged based on the size of my body and making the apparently radical suggestion that we do that for others.

kattenijin

17th Dec 2010, 11:38 PM

Actually, I do think it's really rude to preach at anyone about their choices. It's their body, their choice.

In my neighborhood, there is a 12 year old girl who weighs in the vicinity of 200lbs (about 91 kilos). Her parents are also significantly overweight. I don't think in this case it is really her "choice" to be obese, but comes from the way her family feeds her. In my opinion, this should be worthy of calling Childrens' Services.

Also, their choice to remain obese, does affect me in the form of higher insurance rates. Now, I'm not saying they are the sole cause of high rates (actually, I believe the only way to significantly cut rates is to make all insurance non-profit, but that's a whole other topic), but it is a contributing factor.

wickedblue

17th Dec 2010, 11:52 PM

In my neighborhood, there is a 12 year old girl who weighs in the vicinity of 200lbs (about 91 kilos). Her parents are also significantly overweight. I don't think in this case it is really her "choice" to be obese, but comes from the way her family feeds her. In my opinion, this should be worthy of calling Childrens' Services.

I agree, actually. Just because I'm a big fat fattie that supports other people's right to be big fat fatties if they want to be doesn't mean that I advocate feeding their children shit all day long. Children aren't responsible for themselves, that's up to their guardians to ensure they are properly cared for and good nutrition and activity is important to their development. If a guardian is willfully failing to provide those things, then there should be an intervention of some kind. Absolutely.

fakepeeps7

18th Dec 2010, 12:05 AM

So, are you actually suggesting that telling someone that it really is okay to not live a life hating themselves, being ashamed of who they are and starving themselves in order to be what society says we should be is a bad thing?

No, I'm saying it's not okay to throw up your hands, accept (or even glorify) something that's not healthy, and then bitch at everybody else when they point out the flaws in your reasoning.

I'm sorry if you think I'm advocating hating oneself because of one's weight. All I'm advocating is self-improvement. People shouldn't have to accept being fat if it makes them unhappy (and it makes a hell of a lot of them unhappy) just because some advocacy group tells them that's what they should be doing. How are these fat acceptance groups any better than society in general when they're dictating how people should feel about their own bodies?

I may not be fat, but I have other health issues, and nothing makes me angrier than when people tell me to suck it up, accept it, deal with it, or even embrace it. If you're happy with your body, fine. But please don't tell other people how they should feel. That's disrespectful.

wickedblue

18th Dec 2010, 12:15 AM

Wow.

It's true a lot of fat people aren't happy because that's what society tells us. So a group of people gives those unhappy people a safe place to go and they come to realize that it is okay to be happy with who they are and you twist that into them dictating how we should feel about our own bodies.

That's some incredible leaping you're doing there.

el_flel

18th Dec 2010, 12:17 AM

Personally I don't think that berating people or making them feel bad about their weight is an effective way to get them to do anything about it. All that does is make them miserable, and when you feel like that it's incredibly hard to get the motivation to do anything. The reason weight loss groups work so well is because members all encourage and support each other without passing judgement.

I think many people don't really get that it's not actually easy to make life changes that will last, and in order to lose weight you need to make a lasting life change. Humans are adaptable but we tend to do it only when we absolutely have to, and those sorts of situations don't arise very often. And about 99% of people who think it's easy to lose weight have never had to try! It's one of those things which is way easier said than done.

EDIT: I didn't really see that 'acceptance' group as saying, "hey, it's ok to be grossly overweight" more that you don't have to loathe yourself for it.

unalisaa

18th Dec 2010, 07:41 AM

How I understand the fat acceptance movement, its prime objective is to make people understand that fat people are human beings and should be treated with respect. You don't have to like it, but you have to accept that they're people, just as you would accept someone who had "too many" facial piercings or did anything else that was considered out of the norm.
What the fat acceptance movement is fighting is the tendency to reduce fat people to the "overweight" aspect of their lives. "Why are you buying a candy bar? Shouldn't you be trying to lose weight?" "Why are you on this bus? Cycling would help you lose weight." "Why are you hanging out with your friends at a café?", etc.
Things people don't even consider having anything to do with a person's size when they fall in the bracket that's considered normal suddenly become about Weight when it's a fat person doing them.
You might not give them cancer, but you may make them fat: Can a common virus make you fat? (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7851031.stm) There's also the "social contagion" hypothesis, which also finds that being fat can be catching (http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn12343-is-obesity-contagious.html). If it can affect others, it's not really just a personal choice.

Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but it sounds an awful lot like "Every one belongs to every one else" and "When the individual feels, the community reels".

Lance

18th Dec 2010, 08:01 AM

Is there anyone in the world who does belong only to himself?

Zennia

19th Dec 2010, 09:40 AM

I blame McDonald's and Burger King.

unalisaa

19th Dec 2010, 09:43 AM

Is there anyone in the world who does belong only to himself?
It's a Brave New World reference.

chimodo

19th Dec 2010, 11:10 AM

Lance

19th Dec 2010, 11:58 AM

I hope you realize that not everyone is healthy enough to do regular trainings.

Lance

19th Dec 2010, 12:06 PM

HP, I don't think she really meant people with eating disorders... Her words are more of an exagerration for utterly stupid ways to lose weight.

HystericalParoxysm

19th Dec 2010, 12:08 PM

TY n stfu.

Be nice and courteous - if you're going to have that kind of attitude and call people idiots, then please don't post.

Also, anorexia is where you don't eat much. Bulimia is where you binge and purge (i.e. throwing up). Eating disorders are nothing to laugh at and usually have much deeper root causes than just wanting to be skinny - often it's a matter of control, and has little to do with body image.

Calling people with eating disorders a "stupid anorexic bimbo" is NOT okay, whatever your personal feelings may be. I strongly suggest you actually learn about the disorder you're so casually insulting before you talk about it, because your ignorance on the subject is pretty vast, it seems.

whiterider

19th Dec 2010, 12:26 PM

Wow, that's... remarkably disrespectful. Of course no-one else should be telling you you're too skinny unless they're your doctor; but that doesn't mean you can make huge assumptions about other people either. The majority of overweight people don't spend all their time sitting around on their arses stuffing their faces, and the vast majority of anorexic people don't do it because they're a "stupid bimbo".

Let's take a look at all the overweight people I've known; my father, who rarely eats anything with significant amounts of sugar in it as he's diabetic and who cycled to work every day for five years, until his company went bust, at which point he started going to the gym to make up for the lost exercise, and who hikes on the weekends; my neighbour, who has had a series of blood clots in her legs which, for quite some time, resulted in her using a walking stick and not being able to stand up for more than two or three minutes at a time; her son, who has a medical condition which makes him unable to tell when he's eaten enough; and plenty of others who eat healthily and exercise as much as they should, but just aren't designed to be skinny - of course there are some people whose weight is entirely their own doing, but the issue isn't black and white. And as for anorexic people - apart from the fact that anorexia is not eating; throwing up food is bulimia - it's a serious fucking illness, and if you really believe that those who suffer from it are "stupid bimbos" who think it's an easy way to fit into their new jeans... well, I hope you never do serious damage to someone with that attitude, because it's a distinct possibility.

ETA: Lance - why would they mention anorexia and bulimia if they aren't referring to eating disorders?

You can't expect people to respect you and your body if you refuse to do the same for them - and I guess that's what the fat acceptance stuff is about; if you wouldn't pick on a guy with a missing leg, or on a person with veins popping out of their hands, why would you pick on a fat person? And yet it seems to be considered ok!

Lance

19th Dec 2010, 12:31 PM

She seems to be so much of a fanatic, and that's pretty usual for such a people to exagerrate things to enormous states and use words which is not quite suitable.

HystericalParoxysm

19th Dec 2010, 12:47 PM

Well, that may be, Lance, but this is a debate, and it's up to anyone who would like to participate to stay nice and kind, and to not insult other people, or to make sweeping, ignorant, and insulting assumptions about an entire group of people. Debating is about keeping a cool head and presenting your views as rationally and logically as you can, and not stooping to personal attacks, even if you don't agree with someone or their viewpoint.

And if one is incapable or unwilling to do that, they shouldn't post... or they may find themselves unable to post.

Lance

19th Dec 2010, 01:01 PM

You are... stern, HP. In a good way.

pinketamine

19th Dec 2010, 01:33 PM

So first off.. to start with the idiots who declare me as too skinny.. bs.. I have worked my butt off for it. Try 4 years of hard core training and nothing but weight lifting. I'm 5'6... 120, and I have actually GAINED 15lbs in MUSCLE.. not fat.. cuz i'm not lazy.. I work for it. DuH. It's sad to see that people around me can't get off the couch or stop chugging soda. That's it. I'm not saying it disgusts me that people are fat in general. Like I mention earlier (if you had actually read it) It's not just the aesthetics, it is what is going on inside that persons body.

I know when I overtrain, I feel it. I know when I need to train harder... I feel that too. So this isn't just a matter of how I look, I look absolutely great for my weight because I'm in shape, and because of the muscle mass that I've build up, I don't look too skinny. I look small. I look like I could pass for 100lbs, but I'm not. Because I train hard to stay in shape and keep my muscle mass high. I'm a LOT stronger than most people take me for. And that's because I'm not some stupid anorexic bimbo who throws up lunch to lose a lb. That's just as bad for your body as being overweight. If not worse in some cases.

TY n stfu.

You sound SO DISRESPECTFUL to those who suffer anorexia, honestly, I don't know if you know or if you even care (you don't seem to care), but anorexia is much more than being a "stupid anorexic bimbo", it is a serious mental disease, and people DIE from it sometimes. Could you please have some respect to those who suffer/have suffered one of this eating disorders.
I'm not going to tell you you are skinny or not, because that is someone a doctor should tell and because I weigh 22 Lb less than you do, so it would be extremely hypocritical to do it. Anyway, if you are in the perfect way is something that a doctor should tell you, as people has said BMI tells nothing, different people can look totally different with the same height and weight. Being thin is not equal to being healthy, even doing a lot of sport does not mean that you're healthy.

You ask people to respect you because you are thin, but you don't respect the others, so maybe you really shouldn't ask for something you obviously don't do.

el_flel

19th Dec 2010, 05:30 PM

I think gaining weight with age is probably because we get less active as we get older due to lower energy levels.

pinketamine

19th Dec 2010, 07:07 PM

There is a double thing about getting older and gaining weight. Firstly, as you get older, you usually become less active. Secondly, as you get older, you body needs less energy to "keep living", there is less internal activity in your body (your cells regenerate in a lower speed, etc). So if you keep eating at 60 the same you ate at 20, you'll gain weight. Of course there are personal differences, but that is the general rule.

simbalena

20th Dec 2010, 12:02 AM

Recently I also heard a doctor say that something like one in three women past menopause have thyroid problems which cause them to put on weight.

whitewaterwood

20th Dec 2010, 08:41 AM

But really, I think it's mainly just a stereotype. Like how us Brits apparently either sit around in high-backed leather chairs in our home libraries, wearing tweed and drinking tea with our bad teeth, OR are a cast member of the musical, Oliver.

You aren't? D: *sound of quiet sobbing* My dreams. Ruined.

Buuut, one of the big problems I see with people is making excuses are for why they are fat.

Big bones do not make you 100lbs over weight. Inability to exercise does not make you 100lbs over weight. (I would know) Bad genetics do not make you 100lbs over weight. People come up with all sorts of stupid excuses for being overweight. Obviously, there are some people with those types of problems, but not to the extent that we hear people whining about it.

And then, when people point out that yes, being fat is usually not considered attractive, and yes, you have a serious medical issue, and yes, you need to get help for what is a serious health problem, they label themselves 'victims.' (Bullying and being cruel to someone who is fat makes them victims, telling them they need medical help and you're worried about them does not make them victims)

Saying being obese is sexy is the same as saying being anorexic is sexy. It's a medical problem. You can fix it. (Unless you can't, but once again, verrrry small portion of the population)

As loaded down with political correctness as this is (for the love of boolprop, I don't have anything against fat people, nor do I not realize there are people who can't help it) most people just need to stop making excuses. You can blame your mom, you can blame your local restaurants, you can blame the husband who keeps bringing cookies home, you can blame your doctor, and you can blame your achy back, but in the end, the person who is responsible for you is you. And one day, you may be responsible for your kids.

And when it comes to the people you care about, 'big boned' will never be a good enough excuse for letting them have such a serious problem.

Lance

20th Dec 2010, 08:47 AM

..Yes. I like the McDonalds excuse the best.
I can just see how they catch you and force you eat 3 more burgers. Every day.

HystericalParoxysm

20th Dec 2010, 09:38 AM

I don't think there are many people who say that, Lance. I know there are some, but most folks understand that they make their own choices.

However, there are a lot of places in the US living in high population density, low-income areas without good access to transportation. I went over this before upthread. In these areas there are often very few good options to buy food; there aren't really any grocery stores with healthy foods, and their options can unfortunately become a choice between buying food at a convenience store (expensive, not very healthy) and at a fast food place (inexpensive, not very healthy).

kittielickie

21st Dec 2010, 05:01 AM

I agree that us 'fatties' sometimes try to make excuses. I know why i'm fat. I know I should go for walks more and not eat shit like mcd's and crap like that.

I do think a lot of overweight people start out overweight from they way they grew up. I was fed A LOT of fried foods and unhealthy things my whole life. My parents weren't really super fat, but i became that way b/c of they way i was fed. i was a kid, and didn't know any better. By the time i was 16, i was over 200 pounds. I'm 31 and i'm about 230. I don't care who judges me anymore. I learned not to to protect myself. I'm not a lard ass that sits all day and eats fat and does nothing. I have a job and go to college fulltime. With my schedule, i don't have a lot of time to workout. yeah, i know, another excuse, right????
Anynone that has grown up thin, they don't understand how it is to be bigger. They can point a finger all they want. Until they have walked in my big shoes, they will never know what it's like.

simbalena

21st Dec 2010, 06:28 AM

I do think a lot of overweight people start out overweight from they way they grew up.

That's right, and it's not just due to what your parents fed you but a variety of past experiences that have led to some people using (even "needing") food as a coping mechanism, a reward, an escape, etc.

Too much of the discussion seems to be based around the idea that people simply need to choose to eat better, but many overweight people are that way due to psychological issues so they really aren't choosing to be that way and deserve to be treated with compassion.

chimodo

21st Dec 2010, 09:32 AM

Honestly, I couldn't care less about people who can't control their weight due to their own fault. And anorexia/bulimia is a disease which disgusts me just as much. I've been skinny all my life and have been ridiculed for it up until high school when I started taking better care of myself and now every single idiot who made fun of me is fat or disgusting and I'm the one making fun of them for losing control of their life because their parents no longer dictate what they should or can eat. I think it's pathetic. And I'm not talking about just weight or being small or big boned. At my height I'm supposed to have been 115lbs 4years ago, and I have been 104 up until just over a year ago. I'm 5'6 but my hips are 32, waist 25 and my chest is 31.. in short words, I'm pretty freaking tiny. I can't help my bone structure, so the only thing I can do is put on muscle. I've been training and sculpting my body for 6 of the past 8 years.

I think the most pathetic excuse to not work out is to say that someone doesn't have time... yet people have time to go out and spend hours at restaurants or 30mins to drive out to McDonalds and get food. In those same 30 mins, I can eat AND do a quick work out. I know what it's like to not have time. I've been there. I've gone in to the gym for literally 20mins before. Never said someone has to go to the gym for hours on end and train till they collapse. That's not what it takes. It is a matter of intensity, doing the proper work outs, and eating well.

I see people at the gym sometimes who have no idea what they're doing, and while everyone else just kind of watches off to the side, I'M the one person to come up and show them how to keep their form up or say "hey try this". I just wish people would actually take a class or something before trying to work out. That way they don't end up saying it's not for them or that it doesn't do anything and just giving up. And I never once mentioned handicapped people. That is a WHOLE different story.

And I'm NOT saying just being skinny does it. I was actually down to 104 and just 11% body fat 4 years ago and I absolutely hated it. I felt weak and didn't like the way my arms looked so tiny. Toned up, built up a lot, then went through HELL on an emotional rollercoaster that ended a 3yr long relationship this year which left me not being able to remember 6 months of it and left me at 120lbs and 16%body fat just over 3 months ago. Then I got back into in, worked my butt OFF and as of last week I'm at 118 and 11% body fat. In that time, those 3 short months, I doubled the weight I stack for bench and moved up from doing 30 push ups and sit ups, to doing 100-150 of each. IT IS about pushing yourself. And I'm not talking about people who are handicapped and missing arms or legs or have 3 stomachs or whatever else... I'm talking about everyday average people who go from being average or chubby kids to giant fat slobs who can't get off the couch.

I get that people have medical problems and sometimes it's harder. My ex that I mentioned earlier had to take loads of medicine and couldn't even do cardio because his asthma was pretty much life threatening. He wasn't even old enough to drink and his joints would hurt if he tried to exercise. I got him to do 10-15 crunches in the morning and drink less soda.. bam 8-10lbs in less than a month.

And if you want to talk about handicapped, then how about the fact that I had to have spinal cord surgery when I was 11 because it was splitting in two long ways and I had a piece of bone stuck in between two vertebra in the middle of my back. 50/50 chance of survival.. and 50/50 I was gonna be paralyzed. I can't stand still because I get a stiffening feeling that grows into a dull pain in my lower back. So you know what's the strongest part of my body now? My back. Because I'm not gonna be a little girl and let everyone tell me that I have to sit there in the corner because they don't think I can do something. I can do something. That is ALL the motivation I need. I don't sculpt my body to some perfect idol, I do it to the image I chose. I do it because I want to show everyone who said I couldn't, that I can. I do it because I don't want to become another statistic for heart attacks, because I love my body no matter how many scars I have and because if I take care of it, then it will take care of me. I do it, because every person who looks up to me or asks me to help them train, gives me strength to keep going.

Not being handicapped and growing up into being fat is just like being too skinny which is just like being dirty and smelling like crap all day. The PROBLEM is that people don't care about their health because they believe in false deities and salvation after death. And religion or no religion, abusing your own body is pretty much killing yourself sooner. No one really sees it as what it really is. If you eat enough crap to make your body blow up, then you might as well do shrooms and shoot up some heroin. It's the same thing as smoking. I'll be honest, I tried it ages ago when I was young and dumb. It took my father dying at 49 from lung cancer to realize how much damage it can do to someone. So how many people have to die from being overweight at 50? at 40? or even in their 30's for everyone to realize how much of a serious problem being unhealthy and overweight is.

I agree some people have a harder time than others. I understand that there's cases where people who take certain medicines or have conditions gain some weight. But even those can be at least helped in most cases with proper nutrition. So I'm sorry for sounding like a B1T(% about it, but in most cases it can be prevented and it isn't. Those are the cases I'm talking about.

chimodo

21st Dec 2010, 09:36 AM

And fyi, I don't have some freak metabolism and I'm not just 'naturally skinny'. I've tested this theory by sitting on my butt playing video games and shoveling food into my mouth for 2 weeks straight and gained 5lbs. So if I had done that for every time that I normally go work out.. for the past 6-8yrs... well, you do the math.

Lance

21st Dec 2010, 09:42 AM

Wow. What a huge post.
I suppose everyone here is interested in your life details, so write some more, please. ;)

ElementMK

21st Dec 2010, 09:59 AM

I really liked the part where you insulted everyone and then mentioned that you're understanding.

unalisaa

21st Dec 2010, 10:14 AM

I'm 5'6 but my hips are 32, waist 25 and my chest is 31.. in short words, I'm pretty freaking tiny.

Yeah, and my measurements are 37-28-40, my shoe size is a European size 39, I had pineapple for breakfast, and in my free time I enjoy candlelit dinners and long walks on the beach. You know what this information has in common with yours? No one on the Internet cares and it's in no way relevant to the discussion.
We get it, you think fat people are gross and lack personal discipline. But what are your thoughts on why America is considered the fattest country?

ChaoticNeutral

21st Dec 2010, 10:35 AM

I see people at the gym sometimes who have no idea what they're doing, and while everyone else just kind of watches off to the side, I'M the one person to come up and show them how to keep their form up or say "hey try this".

Hey, it's wonderful you have at least something to offer the world! Cause in other areas you sound like a complete self centred, hard headed, closed minded, self righteous jerk. :gjob:

wickedblue

21st Dec 2010, 10:45 AM

I find it funny* that Chimodo seems to think the world has asked for her help.

*not really

whiterider

21st Dec 2010, 11:13 AM

So, wait... you know what it's like to be bitched at and ridiculed for your weight, and to have people constantly telling you that there's something wrong with you and you look disgusting and so on - and now that you know how hurtful and painful and infuriating that is, you've decided to do it to other people?

HystericalParoxysm

21st Dec 2010, 11:34 AM

Wow. Just... wow.

I've never seen so much hateful, ridiculous bile spewed forth in one place... Well, except for maybe Fox News.

For ignoring directions given to be kind and courteous, chimodo has lost access to the Debate Room.

Let's please get back on topic.

Lance

21st Dec 2010, 11:34 AM

Oh. And here I was, hoping for more advices on how to lose weight and lead healthy life... :(

Petchy

21st Dec 2010, 01:41 PM

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l8ettniby61qak1sk.jpg

http://www.gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs1/1397936_o.gif

Sorry, I'm just in that Mood today.

whiterider

21st Dec 2010, 02:25 PM

*points Petchy at the if it wasn't for man thread*

Petchy

21st Dec 2010, 03:34 PM

*points Petchy at the if it wasn't for man thread*

Oh I know, I know, but Momma Umbridge totally Deserved this thread. :D
Also; I couldn't think of anything constructive for the Debate, I've been here so many times before. With myself, my Peers, everyone. You could say that in the "old'n days" it didn't matter what size you were, and that if you just let things be, you would grow into, or out of, your weight soon enough.. But it does work both ways.
Food was much harder to get hold of, those days - you couldn't drive to a store and get a Rustlers burger *Shudders* and in 2.5mins in the microwave be done! I believe that Eating Properly is much better for you than eating a diet lifestyle, because it gives you everything you need and nothing (really..) that you don't. Learn to know when you're full, learn the portion sizes, and learn to go out more, if you can!
Oh, and don't add more Salt. Seriously.
I think that America, in places, might have a reduced availability for these fresh things, and instead have replaced them with Commerical Alternatives like Breakfast Buffets and Fast Food resteraunts. Because of this, it makes sense why as an outsider we see a larger population.. But have you seem some of the Beer-Bellies over here? *Cringes*
Also, because of the Commerical World over there, I think there is a higher risk of people being Badly Underweight. It all levels out, I suppose, on Tally Charts, but Statistics aren't everything.

I don't think Americans are "Fatter".. Just that there are definitely Fatter People who live in America.
</Ramble>

Olliepop

21st Dec 2010, 05:00 PM

I can only speak for the little corner of the U.S. that I live in (that corner being the "Glorious South"), but I think culture also plays a big part in our weight struggles. The many, many other factors involved have already been gone over, and most of them are true in my case. But I find that my area seems to have a disproportionate amount of us fatties, as compared to other places, and I can't help but think it is, in part, because the importance of food in our local culture has not caught up to our current lifestyle.

Southern food is...well...it's southern food. I don't cook a whole lot any more, but my husband's immediate family gets together once a week for a meal, and his mother's family (all 32 of us) get together once a month to eat. We also have Wed. night supper at church, church picnics, and pot lucks (good luck finding a Southern Baptist who thinks God *really* meant it when he said gluttony was a sin). Our celebrations revolve around shared meals, and those meals are full of rich, unhealthy foods. Every adult is expected to contribute at least one dish...which means that, in those gatherings of 32, there are at least 15 meats/sides meant to feed at least eight people each, as well as 5-10 desserts, depending on the occasion. Etiquette requires that you sample at least some of everything, and seconds/thirds are encouraged. When I first started seriously trying to become healthy, I began eating half portions on "family night" each week. Curious as to what that was doing for me, I gathered the recipes from my SiL and used SparkPeople's recipe calculator to figure out the nutrition data. Even at a "half" portion, my meal was just over 1200 calories.

Our families have been doing things that way for generations, and it's never been a problem before. But we live in a rural area that was once dominated by agriculture and cotton mills. Food-centric traditions aren't such a problem when you do hard, manual labor all day every day. But now that local industry has shifted, we're pairing our good ole' traditions with a sedentary life style and, voila! We're fat.

I'm morbidly obese, and take full responsibility for it. But there are many, *many* factors contributing to my obesity, and no one easy solution for it. I don't think it's okay to knowingly be unhealthy and not do anything about it...although I do wonder why it's not okay to pass judgment on others who struggle with their poor health choices, but it is okay to judge people who struggle with weight. Just as each of us is complex, so to are the issues we face. (Most of) You would never say to a drug addict "just stop doing drugs! I don't do them, so it can't be hard for you to quit." Likewise, you'd never tell someone with cancer gosh, "you're soooo ugly 'cause your treatments make you bald!" As the reasons for obesity can be just as serious, what gives us the right to decide for ourselves what a "fat" person's problem is, and then judge them for it?

As for fat acceptance, I'm of two minds. Telling someone who is truly obese to accept and do nothing to change their situation is reckless and irresponsible. But for many of us, there has to be *some* level of acceptance before we can make that change. It was not until I was able to find merit in myself and to switch my perspective from "weight" to "health" that I've been able to successfully manage my lifestyle. I had to finally have it beaten into my head that my weight was NOT the issue before I could make healthy choices. As a result, I feel MUCH better than I used to. I've also lost a substantial amount of weight...but that has to be a byproduct, not a means to an end, or I and people like me will never get better.

Also, I know the idea of doctor discrimination was touched on earlier, so I thought these articles might be of interest:

Stigma and Discrimination in Weight Management and Obesity (http://xnet.kp.org/permanentejournal/sum03/stigma.html)

The Surprising Reason why Being Overweight isn't Healthy (http://articles.cnn.com/2010-01-21/health/obesity.discrimination_1_fertility-doctor-weight-bias-diagnostic-errors?_s=PM:HEALTH)
I've actually had experience with this one...I have not found a fertility specialist in my area willing to seriously consider treating me until I am no more than "overweight" according to my BMI, despite my primary care physician's insistence that there's something besides my weight going on. I'm 5'9" and wear a size 14, but I'm apparently too fat to be allowed to have children.

And, last but not least, an interesting take on the problem weight bias causes:

A Historical Analysis of Public Health, the Law, and Stigmatized Social Groups (http://www.nature.com/oby/journal/v16/n2s/full/oby2008452a.html)

Volvenom

23rd Dec 2010, 12:15 PM

I just wanted to say ... I work at a rather stressful shop with taking peoples money. I do that all day, and you might think that's very hard for our muscles. It is, it really very hard for our muscles. People come and go here all the time. Some leave because they can't handle the stress, some because it's to little time to chat on the backroom, some leave for muscle pain. You have to translate the muscle pain I'm talking about, into english.

My point only being that even thin people take the easy way out. They rather stop working there then exercise their muscles. Young boys and girls aged around 20 get pain in there back, feet and shoulders so they quit. Those problems start easy and get worse, when they realize that they quit. Nothing special with fat people that way.

And some, like me who are "painfully skinny" yet remain that way no matter how much they eat. At 5'7 (170cm) and roughly 105lbs, I'm sure you'd be horrified if you ever saw me in person, and criticise me for being "skeletal" and "scrawny". Yet no matter how hard my GP's try to find things that are wrong with me healthwise they always fail!

Do you know muscles actually look very good on girls, and you have to work very hard to get the really big ones you don't want. I envy you your thin body, and are absolutely convinced your problem will be solved with some muscle training. Prove me wrong! :)

I haven't read the entire thread, excuse me if I missed something.

I think one of the main reason for this problem is the big packages of food you get over there... also the meals you order at restaurants comes in bigger portions. And I know that if chilren starts eating some have problems to stop before their plate is empty. I've seen a tv program about this problem.. how people who eats in front of the tv also tends to eat more than they should.

Well you know, people have the choice of not to eat all the food they are served. If it costs nothing, save half for tomorrow. Then you eat for nothing 2 hole days lol.

The easiest option is always to find someone else to blame ;)

whiterider

23rd Dec 2010, 02:41 PM

Well you know, people have the choice of not to eat all the food they are served. If it costs nothing, save half for tomorrow. Then you eat for nothing 2 hole days lol.

That's true, but if you've always grown up eating portions x size, you're probably going to continue considering that a normal portion right up to the point at which you can't afford it any more. I do this, to some degree - when I'm cooking, I always feel kinda weird if I don't include at least some meat, some veg, and some carbohydrate. Now you might think that's just a balanced (hurr) diet - it's not. I also feel like I'm selling myself short if I make a sandwich but don't have salad or crisps or something with it. Why? Because a single sandwich isn't a "proper" meal!
Luckily I was brought up to eat quite sensibly; if I hadn't been, though, I could now end up feeling ripped off every time I eat only enough food for one person, and I'd then prefer to eat much more than I need.

Sparklycookie

23rd Dec 2010, 05:13 PM

I mostly eat quite healthily at home- lots of vegetables and stuff, but when I'm out, I tend to buy more junk food like chocolate bars and cola XD No wonder I'm not losing any weight!

pinketamine

23rd Dec 2010, 05:43 PM

That's true, but if you've always grown up eating portions x size, you're probably going to continue considering that a normal portion right up to the point at which you can't afford it any more.

I totally agree with you. When I went to Boston, my "mum" there cooked A LOT. I mean, I could not eat that much, well maybe if I only made one meal a day, but that was not the case. She was always blaming me that I didn't almost eat, and I tried to explain her that I was not used to eat a 1lb (you know what I mean, that woman made GIANT everything) hamburger with chips and salad after having had fried eggs with bacon for breakfast! She kept finding it normal.
I remember too when we went to NY, and the teacher brought us to Wendys, I was surprised by the giant menus. The food portions were way bigger that they are here. I had never in my whole life seen a quadruple burger.

el_flel

23rd Dec 2010, 05:51 PM

You'd not only consider it a normal sized portion but your body would be used to eating that amount of food, so when you do eat less you're not satiated.

fakepeeps7

23rd Dec 2010, 08:52 PM

You'd not only consider it a normal sized portion but your body would be used to eating that amount of food, so when you do eat less you're not satiated.

That's true, but it's not a reason to give up.

I'd question the satiety aspect, anyway. It is possible to be sated and still be malnourished (because if you're getting most of your calories from fat and sugar, you're still going to feel full... but you might not be getting all the nutrients you need).

Satiety is kind of a bad gauge for determining whether or not you've had enough to eat... especially with the SAD, which is high in empty calories.

el_flel

23rd Dec 2010, 09:33 PM

Well, yes, that is true because it doesn't seem to matter how much McDonalds I eat, I always end up starving about an hour later. It's like eating empty cardboard boxes covered in food flavouring but somehow still tasty. Generally speaking though, if you're used to eating large portions and you go somewhere that only serves you a small portion, chances are you'll come away still hungry.

Purity4

24th Dec 2010, 12:59 AM

I totally agree with you. When I went to Boston, my "mum" there cooked A LOT. I mean, I could not eat that much, well maybe if I only made one meal a day, but that was not the case. She was always blaming me that I didn't almost eat, and I tried to explain her that I was not used to eat a 1lb (you know what I mean, that woman made GIANT everything) hamburger with chips and salad after having had fried eggs with bacon for breakfast! She kept finding it normal.
I remember too when we went to NY, and the teacher brought us to Wendys, I was surprised by the giant menus. The food portions were way bigger that they are here. I had never in my whole life seen a quadruple burger.

I have never seen a quadruple burger, either.

I couldn't eat a whole 1 pound burger in one sitting, either. I consider 1 pound of meat enough to use as one ingredient in a meal cooked for 4-6 people for a large dinner.

wickedblue

24th Dec 2010, 01:22 AM

Same here. I'm not really a fan of meat, anyway. Especially red meat. I mean, I love a juicy steak, don't get me wrong, it's just not something I want often. When I see burgers like that, I almost reflexively clutch my chest with sympathy pain.

Sparklycookie

24th Dec 2010, 09:58 AM

I drool over those burgers, but I don't think even I could eat a whole one- greasy overload!

Volvenom

25th Dec 2010, 04:26 PM

That's true, but it's not a reason to give up.

I'd question the satiety aspect, anyway. It is possible to be sated and still be malnourished (because if you're getting most of your calories from fat and sugar, you're still going to feel full... but you might not be getting all the nutrients you need).

Satiety is kind of a bad gauge for determining whether or not you've had enough to eat... especially with the SAD, which is high in empty calories.

You don't need to eat til you get full. I never do anymore. I have gotten used to eating every 2-3 hours. Sometimes I'm hungry after a meal, then I will have to drink water til next meal. No eating in between. I don't really take me feeling hungry as the only measurement of if I should eat now or not. Feeling a bit of hunger isn't that bad. The McDonalds food does not include all the nutritions you need, that's a fact.

That's true, but if you've always grown up eating portions x size, you're probably going to continue considering that a normal portion right up to the point at which you can't afford it any more. I do this, to some degree - when I'm cooking, I always feel kinda weird if I don't include at least some meat, some veg, and some carbohydrate. Now you might think that's just a balanced (hurr) diet - it's not. I also feel like I'm selling myself short if I make a sandwich but don't have salad or crisps or something with it. Why? Because a single sandwich isn't a "proper" meal!
Luckily I was brought up to eat quite sensibly; if I hadn't been, though, I could now end up feeling ripped off every time I eat only enough food for one person, and I'd then prefer to eat much more than I need.

I was also brought up thinking I needed potatoes and meat in every meal. Those rules kind of still apply, just less of each.

Starting to eat what you need and not what your parents, or the restaurant tells you too is a lot of work. It takes dicipline. I didn't say it would be easy. When you're out eating it's always some little guy sitting on your shoulder's telling you to eat all your food, or you're being rude.

I know, my grandmother made big portions every time we visited. Modern humans don't burn all those calories anymore. We sit much more on our fat asses basically. My grandmother was to big for her wheelchair, but she still got into it. I was not brought up to eat healthy. I had to find the way myself.

whiterider

25th Dec 2010, 11:07 PM

I drool over those burgers, but I don't think even I could eat a whole one- greasy overload!A really good, proper burger isn't greasy - all the fat drains out of it while it's cooking, and you're left with lovely, delicious, healthy meat. Of course, you usually have to make it at home to get this effect :p .

Volvenom

26th Dec 2010, 06:21 PM

I really love my homemade burgers if I may say so :) With chicken meat and ... uh, my english stopped there lol. Filled with some vegetables :)

longears15

26th Dec 2010, 07:05 PM

I have never seen a quadruple burger, either.

I couldn't eat a whole 1 pound burger in one sitting, either. I consider 1 pound of meat enough to use as one ingredient in a meal cooked for 4-6 people for a large dinner. That strikes me as almost obscene :( I'd agree 100% on quantities...I made a beef and vegetable lasagne for six people last night, and used about 500g of mince.

lauratje86

26th Dec 2010, 07:58 PM

I've never seen one, but I'd happily eat a quadruple veggie burger. Well, I'd try, anyway. It may take me, ummm, several days..... Or at least several meals!

fakepeeps7

26th Dec 2010, 08:24 PM

I've never seen one, but I'd happily eat a quadruple veggie burger. Well, I'd try, anyway. It may take me, ummm, several days..... Or at least several meals!

Ugh. Even the thought of that makes me shudder.

There is such a thing as eating too much protein. But for some reason, the developed world can't seem to get enough. What should really be a garnish is the whole stinkin' meal.

In other news: One in four overweight women 'is in denial' (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1332204/One-overweight-women-denial.html) (Here's the original study (http://journals.lww.com/greenjournal/Abstract/2010/12000/Self_Perception_of_Weight_and_Its_Association_With.7.aspx).)

lauratje86

26th Dec 2010, 09:43 PM

Ugh. Even the thought of that makes me shudder.

Everyday, yes. No way I could do that. Once, just to try it? Sure. Why not. I couldn't do it with meat burgers though (ignoring the fact that I've been a vegetarian for 10 years - I used to love burgers!) - far too rich and bleugh. The veggie burgers I like best are mainly veggies and pulses, so not so bad.

Has anyone seen this article - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1341683/Donna-Simpsons-feast-The-30-000-calorie-Christmas-feast-eaten-worlds-fattest-mum-ONE-hour-sitting.html??

fakepeeps7

26th Dec 2010, 10:10 PM

Has anyone seen this article - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1341683/Donna-Simpsons-feast-The-30-000-calorie-Christmas-feast-eaten-worlds-fattest-mum-ONE-hour-sitting.html??

I've seen articles about that woman before, and I think she's a disgusting bitch. Not because she's fat... but because she's so selfish. She actually thinks she's not hurting anyone! Let's see how her little daughter feels about that sort of asinine statement when she's motherless in a couple of years.

As far as I'm concerned, she's abusing her child. That kid isn't going to have a chance when it comes to having a healthy body image. She'll either go down the same road as her mother and die early (because she thought being grossly obese was okay), or go the opposite way and end up with some sort of raging eating disorder.

longears15

27th Dec 2010, 08:27 AM

That's quite sad, I think. And yes - not sure if you could call it 'child abuse', but it's certainly not going to be healthy for her kids. I do try very hard not to judge people, but I do cringe when I read that article. How can someone aspire to be the world's fattest woman? I find that disgusting. That, and the fact that her Christmas dinner weighed very nearly as much as I do...I can't help but find that obscene.

RoseCity

27th Dec 2010, 04:54 PM

...How can someone aspire to be the world's fattest woman?

To get attention? Which she got.

HystericalParoxysm

27th Dec 2010, 05:17 PM

What a horrid and selfish thing to aspire to... if she reaches her goal, she won't be able to ride bikes with her kids, play catch, go swimming, drive, or go to their graduation ceremonies. Hell, she won't even be able to leave the house to shop, or to move around to clean, to help them if they get hurt. I'm not always the best about my own health, hating doctors and pills, but every time something comes up, I think, "Would I rather be stubborn about this, or see my son grow up?" And the answer is always obvious. To choose to become disabled, to not be able to participate in her child's life, and to drastically reduce her life expectancy so she may not even see her child graduate high school let alone be able to take her grandkids out for ice cream... I can't imagine being so horribly selfish and also having children.

It's one thing to be a bit chubby but to actively aspire to this kind of thing, what kind of example is that setting for your children? To treat your body like some kind of side show, revelling unhealthy eating habits...

I sincerely hope that the authorities get involved and make this woman see the error of her ways and exactly what she's doing to her kids. If it were just her alone, I'd have no problem with it (though I'd still think it's awful), but to put your children through that is just horrible.