Textures in Milkshape

[ModernChemistry]

Ok, you know how you can put textures on the meshes in milkshape? Can I just put the textures on the mesh and be done? It would be so much easier. I mean how can i make a texture pic with this thing? It, has curtains, just loook at it! But here is a simple way to aply textures, why not use it? So how and if can I do this? Should I delete the texture files? Well, I'm not touching anything till I get an answer.

[Wheelchair Assassin]

Try selecting the curtains, and then going into Window -> Texture Coordinate Editor, and using that to give them better UV mappings.

[ModernChemistry]

Ok, so I can do that than instead of making a whole new texture image? Btw, thanks for your speedy replie!

[JWoods]

Hi External, I am no expert by any means but you may want to try using UVMapper...
http://www.uvmapper.com/
UVMapper will produce a texture map that you can take into a paint program and color or texture. There are easy tutorials on the site to assist you as well. Just remember when saving your Bitmap texture image, save it in 24 bit color (convert in paint to RGB color first). I Hope this helps you out… :)

[ModernChemistry]

Thank you! I'll try that. To be honest, I had no idea what people were talking about when they said Uv mapper. I'm som happy you gave me this link!

[WesHowe]

Because The Sims 2 textures exist in two seperate files apart from the mesh, I wouldn't expect to see direct import of the textures from MilkShape into the final package automatically, at least not real soon now. The UV coordinates are the way the program matches points in the mesh with points on your texture map.
You can do some UV mapping directly from MilkShape (using the Texture Coordinate Editor). You can load a blank graphic in your desired size (512x512 or 256x256 are common values), map the UV points for your object, then right-click on the Texture Coordinate Editor and take a screenshot, which will show the vertice points on your graphic. Take the screenshot graphic into Photo Shop or Paint Shop Pro or whatever and you can see where to color to to match your shape edges (or you can create a mask from the UV map).
<* Wes *>

[JWoods]

I hope that helps External…  Ok, I see we have Wes' attention so within subject I have a question (I think you can answer)... regardless of how I choose to map and create my texture I cant seem to get it on the object in game... I have created a simple test object (cube) to test texturing it. I have the object in game and even have a matching shadow but, for some reason the object is still blue in game. I am pleased that I could at least get the object in the game but blue? LOL... I am off to do some reading and again redo my test... I appreciate any input... thank you... :)

[ModernChemistry]

Can I ask a stupid question? Another one, what is UV mapping?

[WesHowe]

I hope that helps External…  Ok, I see we have Wes' attention so within subject I have a question (I think you can answer)... regardless of how I choose to map and create my texture I cant seem to get it on the object in game... I have created a simple test object (cube) to test texturing it. I have the object in game and even have a matching shadow but, for some reason the object is still blue in game. I am pleased that I could at least get the object in the game but blue? LOL... I am off to do some reading and again redo my test... I appreciate any input... thank you... :)
A cube today, and in a few weeks, body meshes. :-)

Blue means it can't find the _TXMT or _TXTR files, almost always due to: A) The names are mismatched somewhere or B) The name was changed and you missed "Fix TGI' followed by Commit and save.

The naming chain for texture colors starts in the SHPE file, on the right hand side of the colon for each model name in the mesh (in the 'parts' tab). That MUST be the name of the Material Definition (TXMT) file (minus the _txmt suffix).
Inside the Material Definition file is a field called "StdMatBaseTextureName", this is where you put the name (minus the _txtr suffix) of the Texture Image that will be looked for.
<* Wes *>

[WesHowe]

Can I ask a stupid question? Another one, what is UV mapping?

I'm looking for the stupid part, and don't see it.

3D imaging software uses a pair of fractional values to represent how far from the top and left of the image each point, or Vertex, would fall at. Each triangle, of course, has three vertices, one at each corner.
The software computes a value that, if you could cut the texture out of paper and wrap it around the shape and make marks where each point would lay at, but represented as the fractional part of the distance from one edge to the other, so it can scale to whatever particular image size is going to be used.
These two values are labelled 'U' and 'V', and are numbers ranging between 0.0 (at one edge) and 1.0 (the other edge). If you get a UV map generated for your mesh, you can then draw a graphic image that will line up all the parts of your mesh with the colors it is supposed to have on it, without having to do this by trial and error.
If you ever looked at very many of the texture images in a lot of the TS2 objects, you would see an advanced form of this, where more than one part is mapped to different sections of the same texture image. The most recognizable example might be looking at the body meshes in BodyShop, and look at the face ones, and see that the teeth are stuck over in a corner. UV mapping makes it possible for the graphic rendering engine in the game to know that the stuff in that corner goes on the teeth and gums, even though it looks nowhere close to the right location.
<* Wes *>

[ModernChemistry]

Thank you so0o much Wes! You are so nice! :anime:

[Dr Pixel]

Here I've attached a picture showing what the UVmap looks like, used as a layer over the actual texture. It makes it easy to see where the parts should be drawn and coloured.

It basically shows you where each triangle of your mesh will get it's texture from.

Also attached is a picture of the finished object for comparison.

[JWoods]

Thank you Wes for opening my eyes to the fact that a simple overlook of one step can cause the texture image not to be pointed at. I went back and looked through the tutorial I used and it seemed that I very well may have renamed the wrong texture file as that part was a bit confusing (or I was tired LOL). Again thanks for lifting my eyelids Wes…

A point I find impressive in UVMapper and mapping in general is the ability to resize and manipulate the size of each part of the map. I read an in depth article about texture mapping a body mesh and it indicated that the head portion of the mapping for example could be resized and moved wherever you like on the map like, I believe, Wes indicated this with his comment on the teeth in a body mesh.

I also find that, (for External :) ), the more times I go back through all the steps in the tutorials it gets easier due to memorizing the steps. There is a lot to cover for first time object makers and reading posts, tutorials, and doing and redoing embeds knowledge we sometimes think at first is beyond our learning scope. I wanted to mention this as encouragement to the newbie’s who most likely find all this to be intimidating.

Thanks for the help and encouragement, its nice to be part of a community where knowledge is so freely shared… :)

[WesHowe]

I went back and looked through the tutorial I used and it seemed that I very well may have renamed the wrong texture file as that part was a bit confusing (or I was tired LOL).


It is confusing.. doubly so when you are tired.
I am up to my ears in stuff to do, but I have been needling a few other people privately to provide us with a tool that will help with the names situation.
I see no reason a program couldn't be made that would take an object package file, take a base name from a user, say, "bathtub1-jwoods" and rename ALL the internal filenames (adding _cres, _shpe, etc. where needed), adjust the references, check and fix the TGIs and add all the hashes and thus pronounce your object is "game-ready". If something follows a definitive pattern of rules, a program could do it better, faster, and wouldn't forget a step.
It IS too hard as it is now. It takes me on the order of an hour to make all these changes, and I frequently get it into the game and find that I left ONE LITTLE THING undone myself (that's how I knew what was likely wrong, been there, done that, and wore a hole in the T-Shirt already).
<* Wes *>

[ModernChemistry]

Wow, thanks everyone! I have another question about uv mapping. When I'm rearanging parts of the model (I'm using the UV mapper pro) does it matter how I size it? Also, what do I do with the map when I'm done? Does it needed to be imported in some file, cuz other wise when I put a texture on it will look wierd. Right?

[JWoods]

Wes:

I have to agree with the theory of the program internally producing names and taking the majority of confusing steps out would be ideal. On the other hand, I would imagine that the folks working on the program and plug-ins are heading towards this. It’s just a guess in my part of course but considering each new release it makes sense. I can see, by reading here, that all of you have been doing extensive research and probing into the game, therefore it’s a learning process at a higher level. I remember many years ago, programming little 2D games on my Apple IIGS… My first main concern was to accomplish what I wanted the program to do. Then I made it user friendly and polished it off with graphics and sound… I would guess Simpe is heading that way eventually.

What I like about Simpe and the way it is being released is that it gives guys like me the tasks of manually executing operations the final edition may do for the user. I agree that it can be frustrating, very frustrating when you miss one little commit click but, it forces me to go back and reread again. We all know where reading can take us… :)

I have followed a lot of technical posts of yours and the other “Leaders” here, as I see it.
I think the extra steps are useless for you, but, I need them...LOL I realize my absence from computers for over 10 years has greatly exaggerated the learning curves that once may have been easier. I just keep reading and dabbling in every aspect of the programs and game I can.

I enjoy this forum because folks like your self are humble as well as helpful.
Thank you again…

External:

I did some brief reading on the site, in the tutorials section… As far as I understand you can move and resize the parts on the UV map. After you save it as a BMP you will need to import the texture with Simpe. The next part is where I went wrong… Pointing to the texture… All I can say is follow the tutorial slowly and do not miss a step like I no doubt did!!! :)

I may retry my efforts tonight or tomorrow and will report back here with any information if I have any…

Good luck with your textures!!! Wes… Thanks man… :)

[WesHowe]

I remember many years ago, programming little 2D games on my Apple IIGS… My first main concern was to accomplish what I wanted the program to do. Then I made it user friendly and polished it off with graphics and sound… I would guess Simpe is heading that way eventually.


Once a hacker at heart, always a hacker at heart. (I go back to before the Apple ][ myself, originally handcoding programs in hex for a small 6800-based computer with 256 bytes of RAM).
Tools like SimPE and HexEdit will probably always be available to hack into stuff. On the other hand, there is a whole community of talented people that don't have, and don't want to have, the foggiest idea about what a hash is for, what it looks like and how to make one.
And while these people will never break new ground on leading edge technical accomplishmants, they will produce astounding and original creations with the tools they are provided with.
Some people call them 'artists'. I have never failed to be amazed at seeing someone with real art talent make a simple pencil sketch look so alive, with just a few lines. Perhaps because I lack strong talent in that area myself.
At any rate, I didn't necessarily say I was lobbying Quaxi for these changes, although he hasn't been spared my needling in the past. I think we are starting to move from tools that teach us new things to easy-to-use tools for the less technically inclined users. And while I am doing what I can to move things along, we need a whole community of people working at this, because there ain't enough hours for one person to do it all.
<* Wes *>

[Dr Pixel]

I just wanted to let you know that in the latest SimPE, the renaming is already done. It's part of the Fix Integrety plugin.

You can do it either while exporting, or later.

[ModernChemistry]

Here I've attached a picture showing what the UVmap looks like, used as a layer over the actual texture. It makes it easy to see where the parts should be drawn and coloured.

It basically shows you where each triangle of your mesh will get it's texture from.

Also attached is a picture of the finished object for comparison.

I pasted the txtr map(which is a bmp image)over the original texture but the when it was in the game the texture was the map. My question is, how do I let the txtr get the message, that their is a new map and where I put stuff is where it's supossed to be? You know what I mean??? I can see that Dr. Pixel did it. Please help because I want to get the Hello Kitty boombox and tv in their too!

[JWoods]

External, I am stuck with the very same problem...I would guess the object is not pointing at the correct texture (texture name). I realize that my problem is the same and will wait for more input as to how I can resolve this issue.

I have been drifting off with another project but yet... Same problem... LOL I spend to much time building houses, making walls and floors and, cloths that I ended up forgetting where this thread was! LOL

I also noticed last night that the fix integrity tool was moved in the latest release of Simpe and as mentioned by Dr. Pixel seems to rename everything.

Wes; I think we are showing some age here... Before Apple? LOL. 
The very first Apple was named "Lisa", Ironic' that’s my wife’s name…

Back to topic... I am wondering why if you or anyone knows why some objects do not have an "import LIFO" option? (It’s grayed out) Can you just import new texture instead of a LIFO?

Another note… with the integrity fixing the package automatically I notice it is still pointing to the original objects textures… I also notice that changes like this (integrity fix) are not implemented in the mesh tool tutorial. It can be confusing to know which steps to skip or not skip for some.

Well back to work I got to get these textures to show up on these objects! LOL

[Dr Pixel]

My apologies, I wasn't very clear.

When you re-do the texture mapping in your mapping program, you then save it as an .obj file when you are finished. The texture map is automatically integrated in the .obj file. It is imported with the rest of your mesh.

The UVmap image is simply a convienience for you to use when making your texture image.

I work with it as a layer over the top of my image, to see where things should go. Then, I remove it before saving the texture itself.
You don't need it for anything else. You don't want it actually showing on your texture.

After importing your mesh, then just follow the steps for importing the new texture.

Basically, you go to Texture Image (bottom line on the FileTypes list)

There will be two (or more, depending on the original object) Texture Images listed to the right.

Go to the Plugin View tab at the bottom, and click on each to see what it is.

One will be the shadow information - just a tiny black and white image - leave that alone

The other will be the texture for the object.

Click on the largest size (bottom of the list)
It may have a size listed, or it may say LIFO or something like that - either way, click on it.

Then click the Import button, and open your new texture. It should look like the pic attached now.

Right click on the picture, choose "update all sizes"

Then click "commit"

That's it, save your .package file

Once you have done this, the Large Image File section is now redundant, and can actually be deleted from the .package.

That's why you see some that don't have it.

[anarchistIOU]

So, I downloaded the UVMapper Pro Demo, but it says I have to buy to save the Object and UVs. How did y'all get it to work?

[ModernChemistry]

same here, just download the regular version that one you don't have to register.

[Dr Pixel]

You can also get the older, freeware, version of LithunWrap here:
http://files.seriouszone.com/download.php?fileid=198

I like it because it has a 3d preview window - makes it easier to get the mapping right.

[JWoods]

You can also get the older, freeware, version of LithunWrap here:
http://files.seriouszone.com/download.php?fileid=198

I like it because it has a 3d preview window - makes it easier to get the mapping right.

OOO that looks interesting... Thank's...

:)

[anarchistIOU]

Yea, but how do I get the .obj file into LithUnwrap? Do I have to get a plugin?

[ModernChemistry]

You can also get the older, freeware, version of LithunWrap here:
http://files.seriouszone.com/download.php?fileid=198

I like it because it has a 3d preview window - makes it easier to get the mapping right.

Cool, I'm going to go download one for myself! I'm very thankful for all this help :bump:

[Tiggy027]

Once you have done this, the Large Image File section is now redundant, and can actually be deleted from the .package.

I think I need some help here....I don't really understand this part and my object textures always point to the original ones.
My texture shows up in the game but I would like to get rid of the original one in the package. Can anyone please explain this step by step?

[Dr Pixel]

Yea, but how do I get the .obj file into LithUnwrap? Do I have to get a plugin?

No plug-ins needed, LithunWrap has everything included.

On the File menu - Model/Open
and File/Model/Save when finished


It can also open and save .ms3d files from MilkShape, which is the way I do it myself.

[Dr Pixel]

I think I need some help here....I don't really understand this part and my object textures always point to the original ones.
My texture shows up in the game but I would like to get rid of the original one in the package. Can anyone please explain this step by step?

There is a very good explaination by Numenor, which is how I learned to do this:

http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=42014

[Tiggy027]

Thank you Dr Pixel.

[ModernChemistry]

It didn't work. I did what you said but the mesh tool gave some kind of warning and I clicked ok, resumed to what you said and made the txtr. When I looked in the game but the txtr was all over the place. I forgot what the warning said but the tool must of fixed it on it's own and when I (import the mesh) redid it it didn't show up. Finally I get the mesh in the game but I can't get the txtr right. Just my luck. Dr. Pixel, you seem to be an expert on this, can you tell me what I'm doing wrong?

[ModernChemistry]

btw, I'm using LithunWrap

[Dr Pixel]

Well, I am putting together a tutorial on how I did this. I will post it here when I have it ready, it may help.

For now, here is basically what I did:

Made the mesh alterations in MilkShape.
Saved this as a .ms3d file
Used LithunWrap to edit the texture map
Saved from LithunWrap as a .ms3d file
Reloaded that into MilkShape - exported as .obj file
Made the texture in PSP
Then, used the mesh tool to import back into the game
In SimPE, I put the new texture in.

Then, I tried it in the game - once I found that it worked, I then followed the steps in Numenor's thread about cleaning up the .package, and adding colour options.

If the mesh importing tool shows an error, there is something wrong with the mesh. Try it again, to see what the error message is.

[ModernChemistry]

:anime: You rock Doc!!! :anime:


:spin: Thank You! Thank you! :spin:

[rosiedogsim]

Question for Dr Pixel or Wes (or anyone else who might know the answer! :D )

I created a new mesh (cloned the 12th century Vase), made the new UV map, and got it all into the game working! (It took a long time to really get it just right! :smash: )
The question:
I wanted to recolor the new object. I created the recolor package with Object Workshop, applied the new textures to the exported map. When I go into the game, the recolor is being applied to the ORIGINAL (Vase) object, and NOT the new one! :confused:
Any thoughts?
Thanks!

[WesHowe]

Question for Dr Pixel or Wes (or anyone else who might know the answer! :D )

The question:
I wanted to recolor the new object. I created the recolor package with Object Workshop, applied the new textures to the exported map. When I go into the game, the recolor is being applied to the ORIGINAL (Vase) object, and NOT the new one! :confused:
Any thoughts?
Thanks!

My recommendation is to look through the thread entitled "Adding color options to objects that never had one" (or close to that). Quaxi (SimPE author), Numenor and RGiles (or recolor fame) did all their work in public there. I have been pretty focussed on meshes and adding color options has escaped my own bumbling efforts.
<* Wes *>

[rosiedogsim]

Thanks for the reply Wes...have been checking that out. I appreciate the reply (and all you work in this endeavor!)

[Dr Pixel]

This thread might be more help - it is a step-by-step on how to do it, and it is where I learned (after pestering Numenor with lots of questions)

http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=42014

But also be aware that if you have SimPE .17c, you can not do this - there is some problem in the Object Workshop in that version.

[rosiedogsim]

Thanks Dr. Pixel,
I also feel that THIS thread is an excellent how-to on UV Mapping, and I've referred several people to it. I think it might be the only real step by step tutorial on the subject! You might want to consider making your info into a tutorial and formally posting it in the Tutorials forum. I know I spent a lot of time, trial and error trying to figure out what UV Mapping was all about, while trying not to bug people too much with my questions :) .

I agree that there is something not right in SimPE 0.17 in the Object Workshop.


On another note: I notice on your posted UV Map that you place the textures somewhat outside the lines. Do you find this works better when in general?

[Dr Pixel]

I actually just did post a tutorial here: http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?p=236994#post236994

Although it is mainly concerned with using MilkShape for the actual mesh editing, it also shows about the texture-mapping. Look at the last few posts in the thread.

It's not in the Tutorials section, for some reason it says I am not allowed to post there.. :confused:

===========================

About going outside the "lines", it's first of all based on the original Maxis texture, which does go outside the lines.

But, in any case, the UV_map images generated by LithunWrap and other programs are not always 100% accurate, especialy at the rather small image sizes used for most objects. So, it's better to go a little over than to suddenly notice in the game that part of your texture was off by a tiny bit.

Think of the UV_map image as a guideline, it may be off by a pixel or two.

[rosiedogsim]

Thanks for the reply! I have been trying to map my original (non-Maxis) objects almost to the pixel, and I find sometimes that there's a fine white line where the map "joins". I'll give this a try.

As far as being able to post in the Tutorial section, you might want to ask Delphy, Numenor, Miche, or one of the other higher-ups how it gets done.

[JWoods]

I just wanted to let you know i found the "Lithunwrap" to be a great program for making textures....

Thanks again for posting it....

[PheelMePhlow]

My apologies, I wasn't very clear.

When you re-do the texture mapping in your mapping program, you then save it as an .obj file when you are finished. The texture map is automatically integrated in the .obj file. It is imported with the rest of your mesh.


Thank you for helping. This is making it easier for me to make things. I like the fact that you simplified the process. I have a difficult time reading, so most of what I do is through trial and error, but I'm a quick learner. ;-P.

I also appreciate Wes' help and Miche's, you guys are soooo cool and nice.

[jtravers88]

You can also get the older, freeware, version of LithunWrap here:
http://files.seriouszone.com/download.php?fileid=198

I like it because it has a 3d preview window - makes it easier to get the mapping right.

Well, this thread is a little old now but I'm getting around to learning UVMapping and having NO success. I've tried Milkshape, UVMapper and LithunWrap.

First I complete Brianna's tutorial to create a new body mesh with corresponding clothing. Then I export an obj of the GMDC, and load it into UVMapper, move one arm down on the map, export the model. Use the mesh tool to get the obj back into the game. Now the arm has NO texture. For all the world it looks fine in all the mapper programs.

Another oddity, UVMapper always asks if coordinates should be fixed. If I leave them below the map, texture still appears normal. Of course until I try to move a block of vertices then anything I moved has no texture as I already mentioned. GRRRRRR Help!

[Dr Pixel]

If this is a "bare" arm (meaning not with a sleeve on it) I don't think you can move it. Or, rather, if you do want to move it to make room for something else, a good trick is to "flip" it over horizontaly, and move it to be directly on top of the other matching arm (so it will still pick up correct areas of the skintone texture)

Don't forget, the "skintone" is NOT a part of your clothing texture, it is put on first by the game, and probably uses it's own alpha map which we don't have access to.

If it is a "sleeve" of some kind, did you remember to make changes to your clothing texture's alpha map to correspond to the new arm position?

If you have moved it into a black area of your alpha map, it's not going to be textured....

[Morague]

Hi :)

I have a question, although it's not about textures or UV mapping - it is about Milkshape :)

How do you select stuff in 3D view? I have been trying for hours to modify a mesh. I can select things in all of the other views but I can't get it to select stuff in the 3D view. I am hoping this doesn't mean it can't be done! If it does, then how do you go about precicely selecting things in the other views? Because, I am having a heck of a time doing it. As an example, I am trying to do the dress tutorial that WDS Brianna made & trying to select that dangly thing on the back but I can not seem to get Milkshape to only let me select those faces or vertexs, it always picks up other faces on the back & I can't figure out how to unselect some faces. I really wish XSI Tools would export the smd files better because I can actually use that program but it's giving bad results so I am switching to Milkshape but I am finding it very frustrating to get going because I can't select stuff :/

Sorry to rattle on.....

Morague

[Mabelline]

Morague , you can select vertices in 3D view by pressing the select button in model tab first. Then press 'shift' & 'alt' at the same time and drag the pointer with the mouse. left- click to select. right- click to deselect. I just figure it out myself after I have used it for a few days. At this moment, I still cannot find a tutorial that describe the interface of milkshape with enough detail.

[Morague]

Thank you, Mabelline! I'll give this a try tomorrow - I have to get some sleep :)

Does anyone know if there's a list somewhere of the keyboard shortcuts for Milkshape? I've looked through the Help file & searched tutorials but other than a few basics I haven't found anything.

[Dr Pixel]

Does anyone know if there's a list somewhere of the keyboard shortcuts for Milkshape? I've looked through the Help file & searched tutorials but other than a few basics I haven't found anything.

There is a list here:
http://www.swissquake.ch/chumbalum-soft/forum/showthread.php3?s=&threadid=4035&highlight=Keyboard+AND+Shortcut

[Morague]

Thank you! I looked in that forum but I didn't find this - I must not have had the setting correct, maybe not looking back far enough. I don't like asking for information unless I have already looked - again Thank you this will really help!!

[Lucifers Angel]

Hello!

I have a big problem with the UV-Mapper...

My way:

- Create object with Milkshape
- Save as *.obj
- Load Model with UV-Mapper
- Klick on "Edit" - "New UV Map" - "Box"
Then there comes a window:
http://people.freenet.de/Teddylove/Sims_Updates/window_001.jpg
I don´t change anything...

- Klick on "Edit" - "Tile" - "by group"
Then there comes a second window:
http://people.freenet.de/Teddylove/Sims_Updates/window_002.jpg
I don´t change anything...

Then the UV-Map looks like that:
http://people.freenet.de/Teddylove/Sims_Updates/texture.jpg

Why???? :banghead: The objects are too short and there is a lot of room between....

What´s the mistake or what should I do, that I have all textures side by side - without any these big white fields???

Please help me....

Lucifer´s Angel