Parents pushing their children..

[malfoya]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/woman/3485305/I-give-my-girl-8-Botox-for-pageant.html

After reading this article I believe there are no limits to how parents can treat their children. Giving an 8 year botox and making her wax is just horrendous. The little girl even say in the interview that she cries after waxing. But her mum has made her believe it's worth it. Just sick. I read another article about parents pushing their children to be good at school related stuff, which makes much more sense. Though I don't think children should be pushed so hard that they lose their playfulness or own way to experience things.

What do you guys think? Where's the limit of how much you can push your child?

[el_flel]

Firstly, I think anything written in The Sun should be taken with a huge bucket of salt, it's one of the most sensational newspapers in the country and I'm not taking that article as gospel.

I don't think kids should be pushed into doing something that they really, really don't want to do. There will be exceptions to this rule - all kids need schooling, for example - but for non-essential activities, like the ones in the article, I think it's actually kind of cruel.

And don't even get me started on child beauty pageants. I think they are absolutely vile and cannot believe that they even exist, tbh.

[malfoya]

Yeah, I've seen some tv programs about that, how parents sign their kids up for beauty contests at the age of 3-4. I really think they should make a lower age limit for these kind of contests. Seeing young children with high heels and make up is just sick. It must ruin their skin and bone structure even before it has start growing for real.

[missroxor]

I agree with El Flel about the credability of the sun....it's a joke of a newspaper! If there's any truth behind the following statements however, I think we ought to introduce involuntary sterilizations, lol....some people should not be allowed to have kids!
Britney is one of the youngest children in the world to have Botox injections and fillers for beauty purposes :blink: Srsly, WTF? This is a thing that people do? Not just one nut job but many?
Britney says, "I check every night for wrinkles, when I see some I want more injections" She's 8!! She won't have wrinkles for at least another 15 years!....unless her f*cking face caves in from years of botox abuse when it's supposed to developing!
She is also hoping to get them lightly tattooed to an arched shape and is also considering a light pink tattooed lip-liner. Please tell me this is illegal!?
"When she's a superstar earning millions, she'll always be grateful for what I did when she was so young" Or she'll wake up one day and realise you're a shallow, selfish moron who's possibly damaged her body and definitely damaged her mind before she's even hit puberty.

One thing that's definitely true is that there's an alarmingly increasing rate of young girls who are being made to believe (either from parents telling them or through what they see in the media) that this is a viable life plan: "I also want a boob and nose job soon, so that I can be a star." I detest this attitude that's becoming really popular: there's no need to have any talent or personality, hell, you don't even have to work hard in life just butcher your body so everyone will believe you're shaggable and Bob's your uncle, you're a mega rich superstar! :wtf: Perhaps if you wanna be a pornstar (no offence to pornstars, I'm sure there's plenty of real ones out there) but when the hell did kids go from dreaming about being normal things like a nurse or vet to dreaming of being a porn star?!

Personally I think any kind of elective cosmetic surgery or enhancements lke botox should be illegal for anyone under the age of consent. I know it's used sometimes for medical reasons, I don't really see a problem with that (not that I know everything about it) as long as it genuinely will benefit the person and there's consent.

[Robodl95]

Well... they're parents, every parent should be allowed to raise their children the way they want unless it goes into illegal grounds or something. I don't agree with pushing children into things that they don't really want but the parent is legally in control of the child. There's always the stories that go "I hated my mom/dad forcing me to practice _____ for such long hours but now that I'm grownup I'm glad that they did".

Of course there's a big difference between legality and morals, this woman is seriously troubled to push her daughter into such things (that could be very dangerous) so young, the poor girls going to grow up and have serious psychological issues.

[Oaktree]

I think that there are certain things that a parent is justified in forcing a child to do, but the things mentioned do not fall into that category. It's difficult to precisely outline the bounds of that category, but I don't think that even minor body modification done to children is appropriate. Maybe getting up into the late teenage years, where the kid has more autonomy, it would be okay to get a few piercings or maybe a tattoo, but it's wrong when the child is still so young that he/she essentially goes along with the parent's wishes.

It's entirely justified to encourage a child's intellectual development, so long as the child isn't so bogged down in school and activities that there's no time to actually enjoy childhood. I do think that even intellectual development should be handled carefully, though. I think that it's important to teach the difference between fact and opinion and to encourage the child to develop his/her own opinion. I don't think that religion should be forced on children, for example. Realistically, it can't really be stopped because people who believe in a particular religion believe it like it is fact, but I still think it's wrong to indoctrinate.

[unalisaa]

Well... they're parents, every parent should be allowed to raise their children the way they want unless it goes into illegal grounds or something. I don't agree with pushing children into things that they don't really want but the parent is legally in control of the child. There's always the stories that go "I hated my mom/dad forcing me to practice _____ for such long hours but now that I'm grownup I'm glad that they did".

Of course there's a big difference between legality and morals, this woman is seriously troubled to push her daughter into such things (that could be very dangerous) so young, the poor girls going to grow up and have serious psychological issues.
Yeah. Upon considering my initial outrage, it occurred to me that this woman is not actually doing anything illegal. There are many things I take issue with in her parenting, but there is in that of a lot of people. The main problem, I think, is that she is performing procedures on her child that will have permanent cosmetic effects for no other reason than just that.
In my opinion, there should be a sort of "age of consent" to procedures performed with no other motive than alteration of looks. It's a big decision, and not one an eight-year-old is able to make. That is, give your kid a nose job if it has difficulty breathing, but wait till it's fifteen or sixteen before doing it for prettiness.
Waxing probably wouldn't count because while it's said to lessen the regrowth of hair, it's a side effect to the temporal removal and we can't keep track of *all* side effects.
On a side note, I've heard interesting theories that because waxing increases blood flow, it actually stimulates the growth of hormonally controlled hair, i.e. androgenic hair, but eh.

[Robodl95]

I just picked up on the fact that her father was an 83 year old man (until he died) I hope that I'm not the only one who becomes mildly disgusted at a 50 yr age difference in a relationship... This woman needs someone to make her think logically and realize the consequences of what she's doing!

[malfoya]

I just picked up on the fact that her father was an 83 year old man (until he died) I hope that I'm not the only one who becomes mildly disgusted at a 50 yr age difference in a relationship... This woman needs someone to make her think logically and realize the consequences of what she's doing!

He was probably rich, and this woman is using every chance she gets to earn a little extra. I don't think she wants her girl to be a superstar without getting anything back. She really disquists me though I've just read about her. In this article there's not a single quote who sounds like it's coming from a reasonable person.

[Tempscire]

this woman is not actually doing anything illegal.
Actually...

I am pretty sure Botox treatments are supposed to be by prescription only with the oversight of a physician. If nothing else, botulinum toxin is...you know...highly toxic, so I'd really hope the mom ran this by a doctor before injecting her young daughter with it, except then that might mean there's a doctor out there who may have approved its cosmetic use in a prepubescent girl. (Who knows what effect it's having on her developing musculature, nerves, etc.) As a beautician, unless she also has a nursing or medical degree under her belt, the mom is not legally qualified to administer Botox in the state of California, where they are currently living, nor probably anywhere in the U.S., I'd bet.

From BotoxCosmetic.com (emphasis added):
BOTOX® is a prescription medicine that is injected into muscles and used to [do various things, including legit medical purposes, but only explicitly for people ages 12 and up]

BOTOX® Cosmetic is not recommended for use in children younger than 18 years of age.

BOTOX® or BOTOX® Cosmetic is an injection that your doctor will give you. [plus lots of other information relating to talk to a doctor about your Botox treatments]

Your doctor will administer a few tiny injections of BOTOX® Cosmetic directly into the muscles that cause those moderate-to-severe frown lines between the brows.


This lady is 1)ordering Botox from the internet (God knows if it's the real stuff and totally safe) and 2)injecting it herself.

So, in short...
--Definitely illegal things:
1) unqualified administrator of Botox.

--Possibly illegal things:
1) obtaining a prescription medication without a prescription, or
2) using a valid prescription on someone to whom the prescription is not made out

--Definitely unethical things:
1) If obtaining without a prescription from a valid source, then potentially obtaining a dangerous neurotoxin.
2) Never mind the psychological damage to the daughter.
3) Potential damage to a young, developing body.
4) Medical treatment being administered without proper medical supervision.
5) Cosmetic Botox has not been tested on anyone that young, so it's doubly dangerous to be using on this kid.

[wickedblue]

It's up to the parents to decide what is best for their children. That, I agree with. But, if this story is true, this lady needs help. The damage she is doing to that child is beyond reprehensible. That girl will never be able to look in the mirror and see her own reflection, to appreciate her own unique beauty. She won't even experience childhood.

Especially with the botox injections. Who the hell looks at a child and thinks they need botox? I'm in my 30's and don't even have enough wrinkles for botox to even be on my radar, even if I was the sort of person to give a flying fig about getting rid of them. If it is a doctor injecting the botox into this child, that doctor should have their license revoked.

[MaydayParade]

This is sick. She's only a child, so let her be a child, playing with barbies, going to girl scouts not botox and body waxing. I only started to shave my legs a couple of months before i turned thirteen, she's getting full body waxes at the age of eight. And seriously, botox for an eighth birthday present, all i wanted for my eighth birthday was powerpuff girl dolls and pokemon cards.

[crocobaura]

Child beauty pageants should be outlawed.

[DigitalSympathies]

I remember reading on here that Disney has stopped making animated Princess movies because 5-year-olds were too concerned with how hot they were. When I was 8 people said I looked about 13-15 years old, and now they say I look in my late teens (I'm 15, about to be 16), and I STILL didn't give a damn about how hot I was - I did when I was 11-13, and stopped when I was nearing 14 because it was just plain stupid to worry about that stuff at that age. I've been by primary schools where the girls are arguing over boys - and these girls are, what, 9? It's sick how this girl in particular has been raised in such a toxic environment. What happened to just being a kid? I mean, I work all day (I don't go to school) and am a very mature person, but did I want to be the "adult-minded" one? NO! I would give anything to be a child again - and this girl will grow up and realise that she doesn't have a childhood to go back to.

[Phoeberg]

What kind of eight year old child needs botox. I'm 21 and I don't have any wrinkles yet! I wasn't even interested in make-up until I was 11, almost 12, and even then it only extended to buying one clear lipgloss that I really only liked because it tasted of mint. I wasn't thinking about what it looked like on my face. I could understand a parent making the decision for their child to have cosmetic surgery if it were for something that was causing the child a great deal of distress, perhaps in the form of bullying. I've read stories before about children having their ears pinned back and things like that because they've been bullied so much that they're genuinely miserable over it. However surgeries like that are performed by docotrs and are only a one off. This botox is a continual thing. No eight year old would say they wanted botox without having been pushed into it somehow. When I was eight I asked for a tent so I could camp out, not a cosmetic procedure that most people don't even have any need or desire for until they are at least into their 30s.

[Purity4]

Phoeberg, I agree with everyone you said, until you said 'at least your 30's' because if it's for wrinkles, then I would have to say at least your 50's or 60's if you goal is plastic surgery for the removal of wrinkles. I've never known anyone in their 30's, or their 40's that have noticeable wrinkles.

[missroxor]

I started to notice wrinkles for the first time when I was about 25 (I'm now 27) and I smoked 20-30 a day for the best part of 7 years but even so I don't think they're noticeable unless I happen to be stood next to a fresh faced teen for comparison, lol. I certainly wouldn't consider any kind of cosmetic procedure to even my skin out right now and can't imagine that my face is gonna deteriorate at such a rate that I would "need" any kind of procedure in the next 10 years, especially since I stopped smoking almost 4 yrs ago and I never sunbathe: both things which are reported to speed up aging.

That said, I don't consider myself to be particularly vain. I guess for some people noticing their skin doesn't look as young as it used to be when you're only 25 could be the end of the world :rolleyes: but that's a choice that an adult should make for themselves and I really think it should be illegal for anyone to make that decision on someone else's behalf and for the procedure to be carried out before 21 (unless it's a genuine medical procedure for a genuine medical issue).

[paksetti]

Child beauty pageants should be outlawed.

I wouldn't be opposed to them if they were like school talent shows, where little girls get to have fun with outfits they pick out, sing badly, dance badly, and just generally do the stupid fun stuff children do.

When did kids go from cutting barbie hair and eating mud to little being mini-whores?

[Robodl95]

Child beauty pageants should be outlawed.
On the basis of what... I know that they're a breeding ground for all kinds of "bad stuffs" but there's nothing illegal about them. How do you differentiate a parent forcing beauty pageants from a parent forcing anything else upon their child? What about the children who actually enjoy them? What is moral and what is legal are not the same things.

Out of everything that our government sticks their heads into would you really want them to get involved into outlawing child pageants? Please stick to fixing the economy, fixing the educational system and everything else first, thanks :D

[missy harries]

It's a sad day to think that tit's and a nice arse hold more value over knowledge and intellectual worth or even some actual talent.
Give it a couple of generations and we'll truly be a race of idiotic bimbo's. But at least we'll look good.

Edit: This is a classic (if extreme) example of parants pushing kids into something they wanted themselves which is also the whole point of childrens beauty pageants. (intresting note, google beauty pageant and you'll get a load of images of kids!)

[Phoeberg]

Phoeberg, I agree with everyone you said, until you said 'at least your 30's' because if it's for wrinkles, then I would have to say at least your 50's or 60's if you goal is plastic surgery for the removal of wrinkles. I've never known anyone in their 30's, or their 40's that have noticeable wrinkles.

I said 30s because I have a friend who is convinced she has a wrinkle on her forehead. I actually think it's a crease, but I know that she would consider having something like botox in a few years. Apparently 47% of cosmetic procedures are performed on people aged 35-50 with botox being the most common. On 25% were performed on people aged 51-64. I don't know why, but I get the impression that it's actually younger people who tend to have things like botox. Perhaps people get a little paranoid about aging and see things that aren't there on their faces just because they've hit a particular age. Saying that, eight is probably a little too young to be having those thoughts... :| .

[Tempscire]

It's a sad day to think that tit's and a nice arse hold more value over knowledge and intellectual worth or even some actual talent.
Give it a couple of generations and we'll truly be a race of idiotic bimbo's. But at least we'll look good.
Yes, because people have historically always been judged by their intellect over their attractiveness. Especially women and girls. :P That's why we're all so brilliant these days.

[missy harries]

Yes, because people have historically always been judged by their intellect over their attractiveness. Especially women and girls. :P That's why we're all so brilliant these days.

100 years ago women and girls weren't even considered.
I blame the media and all the Paris Hilton's in the world for the state on todays perception of pefect women. I also blame Paris Hilton for making people think all you need to reach fame are barbie looks (famous for being famous) and for some reason everyone wants it, otherwise intelligent young women are butchering themselves to reach a state of perfection and praise 'all I want is to be loved' to be socially accepted and better than the rest. Like I said, a sad day.

[malfoya]

People this days are so obsessed with how they look, that they totally forget about anything. Sometimes when I'm at a party or in a room with loads of people I feel like there are few that are interesting to talk with. I read loads of news, I'm updated on politics, sports, music.. I do care about how I look, cos I don't like fading away in a room, but I feel like I get more out of talking. The look is just the first impression. It takes like 5 mins to be bored of the person if he or she doesn't bring more to the room.

I'm afraid this little girl wont know about how to either treath people or act around loads of people. She wont have anyone to talk with, because she was never interested in any thing besides her looks, and we all know that "me me me" gets pretty boring easily.

[Tempscire]

100 years ago women and girls weren't even considered.
Oh, yes they were. Just not in any serious way, barring a few exceptions. Having money and/or titles helped.

Paris Hilton also is not to blame for any societal trends either; if anything, she is merely a symptom, or possibly another victim, if you will. (There were famous-for-being-famous socialites well before she was ever born.) You want to talk skinny body image, you gotta at least go back to Twiggy. You want to talk about primping and shaving and plucking, you can go back even further to at least the early 20th century (when advertising "invented" body odor and halitosis and the need for women to shave everywhere). You want to talk ridiculous and unnatural fashion, go back another century-ish to the height of the most constricting corset designs that deformed women's organs. Or we could talk about the late Victorian ad for medicinal tapeworms to help ladies keep the pounds away. Or the artificial market for douches.

Further, exaltation of the feminine virtue of beauty (not intelligence, skill, knowledge, etc) goes back centuries. There was never a time when it was enough to be plain (or god help you, ugly-- for whatever the given value of attractiveness was at the time and place) but smart.

The point being, it's nothing new. The pursuit of unnatural beauty is not some crisis of the modern era and a failure of contemporary times and a tragedy dooming the future generations (if it were, then obviously today the living generations would be the dumbest ever, since all our forebears were equally bent on pursuing beauty in their own ways). And actually, women today are way, way, way better off in this "sad day" and infinitely more likely to be respected for non-physical attributes than ever before. This is not to say that there isn't sexism or that women aren't expected to play pretty, but feminine worth is less hinged on appearance than it ever was.

And who cares if supposedly intelligent women (assuming of age and making their own decisions, in contrast to the topic that prompted this thread) do weird things to their bodies to try to be pretty? If they are intelligent, then surely they are capable of making their own rational, adult decisions that affect only themselves. Just because a woman wants to pursue some ridiculous feat of beauty does not make her any less worthy than a woman who wants to pursue academia above all else.

ETA: and of course "tits and ass" take precedence over intellectual talents in a beauty pageant. If you want to see brains trump beauty, watch a spelling bee or any of the myriad other intellectual competitions out there.

[missy harries]

Paris Hilton also is not to blame for any societal trends either; if anything, she is merely a symptom, or possibly another victim, if you will. (There were famous-for-being-famous socialites well before she was ever born.) You want to talk skinny body image, you gotta at least go back to Twiggy.

Twiggy did spring to my mind but I focused on paris since she is more modern and definatly helps worsen the trend but you are right.

[QUOTE=The point being, it's nothing new. The pursuit of unnatural beauty is not some crisis of the modern era and a failure of contemporary times and a tragedy dooming the future generations (if it were, then obviously today the living generations would be the dumbest ever, since all our forebears were equally bent on pursuing beauty in their own ways).[/QUOTE]

I still stand by my 'sad day' statement since I think we are that dumb as a society. Have you seen the 'average person'?
I just came across this >>Generation Y? (http://hubsterblog.blogspot.com/2007/08/generation-y-most-stupid-generation-so.html) and agree with it entirely

[malfoya]

.. don't forget that in the 18th century (and earlier) women were supposed to be pale and dark hair was concidered beauty. Wish I lived then by other words..
Anyway, this isn't a new phenomena it has just been taken further due to technology. So who to blame? Science, technology, knowlegde.. Photographing, digital arts etc.

[missy harries]

.. don't forget that in the 18th century (and earlier) women were supposed to be pale and dark hair was concidered beauty. Wish I lived then by other words..
Anyway, this isn't a new phenomena it has just been taken further due to technology. So who to blame? Science, technology, knowlegde.. Photographing, digital arts etc.

People are to blame!

[Robodl95]

Fixation with beauty is far from new by any means (as almost everyone has said). People are no more stupid then they were years ago! May I point fingers to ancient practices such as footbinding, neck stretching, body swelling, etc. all done by women to be perceived as more beautiful? In comparison botox is nothing!!!

[pinketamine]

Fixation with beauty is far from new by any means (as almost everyone has said). People are no more stupid then they were years ago! May I point fingers to ancient practices such as footbinding, neck stretching, body swelling, etc. all done by women to be perceived as more beautiful? In comparison botox is nothing!!!

Some of these practices where not (only) for the beauty, but more of a women oppression form, like neck stretching.

[Robodl95]

Some of these practices where not (only) for the beauty, but more of a women oppression form, like neck stretching.

Yes that is true, footbinding to an extent was to limit the mobility of women and keep them in the home (of course we have no way to know whether it started with subordinating or vanity). Those are the extreme examples, there are a lot more things with wigs, makeup, etc. that show up all through history.

[Tempscire]

I still stand by my 'sad day' statement since I think we are that dumb as a society.
People have been saying "this current generation sucks! not a patch on the generations we used to get" since the dawn of time, though. And when GenY is older, they'll be complaining about how dumb/lazy/trivial the next batch of kids are.

If people are "that dumb" today, it's only because they always have been "that dumb." At least now we're mostly literate. (And don't get me wrong, lots and lots of people are terrifyingly stupid. Just not any more stupid now than in the past. A different issue is that "dumb people" hold more direct influence over society, or at least have the ability and means to be more widely vocal about their stupidity--for example, a semi-literate person's pained writing 200 years ago in a letter to a relative doesn't get the kind of notice that a modern person's inane ramblings on the Internet does. But even then I still wouldn't go making sweeping judgment calls on that basis.

Yes that is true, footbinding to an extent was to limit the mobility of women and keep them in the home (of course we have no way to know whether it started with subordinating or vanity).
And as a status symbol! Peasant women didn't have their feet bound because they needed to work. A lady who was wealthy/married to a wealthy man helped show off that security by her physical inability to do hard labor... or walk any distance. :|

[iCad]

To address the initial issue, parents often live through their children, in a sense. If they're not pushing them into beauty contests, they're pushing them into learning to play an instrument when they don't want to, or they're bragging to their friends about how smart their kids are or what grades they get or what-have-you so the kids feel obligated to keep performing well. It's because a child's success tends to reflect well on the parents in other people's minds, and parents, like anyone else, like to be thought well of by their peers. In my own mother's case, in reference to me, it was always something like, "Oh, your daughter gets perfect grades in school and never gets into trouble, so you must be an excellent parent!" Hardly. My mother was an ogre who insisted on perfection in me (and my siblings), and so for instance I was severely punished, physically, if I didn't get a perfect grade on a test. (Not just an "A", but a perfect grade.) I wasn't allowed to have friends or, God forbid, a boyfriend because I had to spend all of my non-school time studying and learning.

And, really, at the time, I didn't want those things, either, because I didn't have time for them, as caught up in pursuit of perfection as I became, too. My mother's obsession became my own, and it wasn't entirely because of fear of punishment but rather because I came to believe that perfection was important, too. So, I can understand the little girl's mindset in the article, if it is indeed a true story.

That said, it's not necessarily that the parents are evil or that they have evil intent. Often, they really do sincerely want their children to have the best, to be successful, and/or to have opportunities that they themselves didn't have when they were growing up. I think that basic desire on their part just gets twisted into an obsession sometimes. Parents are human beings, after all. It's just unfortunate that it's the children who suffer for their parents' faults.

And of course, the parents want "bragging rights" amongst their friends, too. As a parent myself, I confess that I have occasionally succumbed to that temptation myself, but I am careful to be not as domineering as my own mother was, even at the expense of bragging rights.

[Mistermook]

I don't know that very many parents don't want the best for their children. The problem is that people generally suck at knowing what's best for anyone, themselves or anyone else, and beyond that they generally suck at implementing most of the notions they get that don't suck. Fortunately that all evens out as most people failing to accomplish their bad ideas as much as their good ones, and ending up filling out the averages, but I don't think it's fair to criticize the urge in and of itself - sometimes it succeeds, and every success story in humanity is a victory for all of us really. The world isn't improved or made much worse by the mortals and murderers of the world, but it shakes for those people who transform themselves into more than the rest of us.

I'm still with throwing the book at the mother in this specific case, because it's fairly clear that she was probably breaking some law and in a way that's especially offensive to the public at large and dangerous to a child, but in general I'm not sure if child pageants and piano lessons, or pressuring your kids to play sports and play with action figures, are really all as terrible for people as some might present them as.

[harmonee_el]

It's not a good idea for parents to push their children,because sometimes it could end in suicide.Or sometimes the kids could act out in other ways that are bad.I know of a woman that pushed her daughter so hard that the the girl ended up rebelling,And this woman thought she was above everybody else...and now her daughter is 16 and pregnant?

[Mistermook]

...And sometimes parents who don't push their children end up with kids who feel unengaged with and loveless and those kids sometimes kill themselves too.

[ElementMK]

If it wasn't for my parents pushing me over the ledge I wouldn't be the person I am today. Dead.Are you the ghost of your former self, brought back to post through sheer rage alone?

[Mistermook]

Our former selves are the ghosts, fictions of brain chemistry and a lack of paranoid imagination. ;)

[pinketamine]

Yes that is true, footbinding to an extent was to limit the mobility of women and keep them in the home (of course we have no way to know whether it started with subordinating or vanity). Those are the extreme examples, there are a lot more things with wigs, makeup, etc. that show up all through history.

Yes, I totally agreed with your comment, I just wanted to add it, because it is worth mentioning that these kind of beauty things are usually more directed to women.

About the woman giving botox to her kid... social services could/should probably act, because she's applying medical treatments to a kid without a doctor's consent.

[Mistermook]

About the woman giving botox to her kid... social services could/should probably act, because she's applying medical treatments to a kid without a doctor's consent.
That's my main issue here. I don't want boneheaded parents killing their children with any self-medication that should probably be in the hands of trained professionals, whether it's applying cold medication, botox, or transplanting a kidney. If a reasonable person (in the legal sense) should be able to make the value judgment of "I should be seeking out professional advice on this matter" and they're not, and the issue is the treatment of a child, then I think it's worth reference to child services. This goes for folks who pray for cancer treatment for their kids rather than send them to the doctor too.

[MaydayParade]

I don't think pageants should be outlawed, because some childern actually do want to do them and they enjoy them, personally i would never enter my child just because i wanted them to, they would have to want to do it and be commited. But most of the time you see pageant moms living through their childern who don't want to do pageants but do them to keep mommy happy.

[SuicidiaParasidia]

kindergarten entrance exams. (http://www.covenanthome.com/kready.asp)

...
i rest my case.

[rcranger9]

i don't believe that the girl truly wanted this at first. i believe this is the mother who wants to be famous and rich and will stop at nothing to get it. she clearly is off her rocker because she says more mothers should do it to their kids. sorry, but more mothers should subject their kids to pain and suffering while ruining their life forever just so the mother can be rich and famous? (even though people don't pay attention to the parents of celebrities?)

i believe that parents should push their kids to do what the child likes and is good at. they shouldn't be forced to do what their parents like. children are soft and malleable and we need to be careful with how we handle them. one mistake can ruin their life forever.

[Robodl95]

kindergarten entrance exams. (http://www.covenanthome.com/kready.asp)

...
i rest my case.
It's usually a big decision to decide whether to wait the extra year or not, the exam makes sense imo.....

[antoniabegonia]

Well, obviously injecting Botox into an eight year old child is crazy, unethical, and well, I daresay idiotic. However, I don't find a problem in pushing a child towards success - so long as the parent or guardian is careful and tactful about the way they go about dealing with the situation.

If all parents were as crazy as the mother interviewed in The Sun was, then the world would be a troublesome place. However, if parents in the world had just a small, understandable amount of the mother's drive and thirst for her daughter's success, I suppose that it would be alright. After all, it is good and even necessary for children to be pushed, chided, and well-provided for (not just in monetary terms - in parental terms as well).

Obviously, the daughter of this whack-job is not making any decisions about her own life, but yet again she is an eight year old. I doubt that any eight year old has that much freedom. However, as usual, I could be incorrect. :P

Thanks! (And congratulations, Wills and Kate!)
Antonia

[malfoya]

I think it's more important to "push" your children into getting the oportunity to chose whatever path they want, and to be able to fullfill their dreams. Not force them into anything.

[fantasysims]

Ohh... Bad choice on the mother's part. Doesn't she know that botox is a toxin and actually stretches the muscle making you more prone to wrinkles the more you get it??? Its going to suck when the girl is 20, can't afford it, and LOOKS OLDER THEN HER MOTHER! -_- Actually, I think I may just have found the reason why the mother is doing this....

LOL

[SuicidiaParasidia]

I think it's more important to "push" your children into getting the oportunity to chose whatever path they want, and to be able to fullfill their dreams. Not force them into anything.

^this.


"pushing" your children to have faith in themselves pays more than any college degree. encouraging does better than flat-out demanding....lets remember that what our parents have instilled on us as children has carried over into our adulthood, and in most cases, continues well past after they have died. if youre going to mark your child for life, you may as well make it as a way that will benefit them in the long and short term. you arent raising a tiny robot, youre raising a tiny person.
teaching your child to be happy & love themselves, even in the face of failure could mean the difference between jail and success. complacency is a different story, however...

but also, i think things like this happen when adults forget what it means, and how it feels, to be a kid. adults are pressured and made anxious over the slightest differentiations, and without a proper contrast, theyre bound to forget what its like to live in the moment without responsibility or fear of what tomorrow might bring.
its out of control when "wanting the best for your child" puts the child in the back seat.


tl;dr: chillax, ma.

[Undercovers_Agent]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/woman/3485305/I-give-my-girl-8-Botox-for-pageant.html

After reading this article I believe there are no limits to how parents can treat their children. Giving an 8 year botox and making her wax is just horrendous. The little girl even say in the interview that she cries after waxing. But her mum has made her believe it's worth it. Just sick. I read another article about parents pushing their children to be good at school related stuff, which makes much more sense. Though I don't think children should be pushed so hard that they lose their playfulness or own way to experience things.

What do you guys think? Where's the limit of how much you can push your child?

This is one of the few things that ever makes me really angry. Kiddie pageants. Not only is it bad enough that they exist, it's bad enough that the parents exist. Take a look at the T.V. shows, how many of the mothers are overweight, in relationship distress, or are being slowly poisoned by the cosmetics that they use? A good portion of them. I guarentee that these parents are only using their kids as tools for the prizes or to live their fantasies they never could have as a child.

Not to mentiong the psychological effects, young girls who participate in these pageants are at an extradanary elevated risk for drinking later on in life as well as becomming addicted to drugs and getting STDs (there's a study somewhere but I can't be bothered to find it.)

Botox is not the wrst I've heard although it's a first for waxing that I've heard of (What kind of 2 year old has body hair anyways???) I've heard of beatings, plastic surgury, tanning, robberies at cosmetic stores, fights at cosmetic stores and barber shops, all to win a $1000 cash prize. What fuckheads >: ( ANGRY!!!!

tl;dr FFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

[ElementMK]

I'm against parents pushing their children, but I'm certainly for people pushing other's children. Shove the buggers out of the way. Damn kids.

[Oaktree]

"pushing" your children to have faith in themselves pays more than any college degree. encouraging does better than flat-out demanding....lets remember that what our parents have instilled on us as children has carried over into our adulthood, and in most cases, continues well past after they have died. if youre going to mark your child for life, you may as well make it as a way that will benefit them in the long and short term. you arent raising a tiny robot, youre raising a tiny person.
teaching your child to be happy & love themselves, even in the face of failure could mean the difference between jail and success. complacency is a different story, however...


While I think it is important for children to have a sense of self-worth, a lot of parents take it too far in the other direction. The parents that teach their children to feel good about themselves no matter what, who refuse to discipline their children, who act like their children can do no wrong are raising a bunch of people who probably won't have very fulfilling relationships later on and might not do much of anything with themselves because they feel self-satisfied even when they're sitting on the couch all day.

I think it is best to take the approach of teaching from failure. Don't tell your kid that he/she did everything right and it's not his/her fault things went wrong; tell the kid that people are fallible and that its okay to make mistakes, but that we should strive to succeed.

[Purity4]

fyi, the whole botox thing was a scam. It didn't really happen.

[missroxor]

fyi, the whole botox thing was a scam. It didn't really happen.
Anderson Cooper keeping us honest (http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2011/05/17/ac360-follow-botox-mom-loses-custody-report-says/) :) Apparently she lost custody of the girl.

[rcranger9]

Anderson Cooper keeping us honest (http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2011/05/17/ac360-follow-botox-mom-loses-custody-report-says/) :) Apparently she lost custody of the girl.


finally they realized this woman is psychotic.

[KindGenius]

I'll quote my post again:
"I'm agaist spanking.It's not humanic.And it ruins the kid's character and makes them cruel/the think that if their parents do this,they think they are allowed doing this too.Some people think that if someone grows up and becomes a maniac,they think that it's because he watched films and played games with violence,but I think they just want to prove themselves it's not their fault.The real reason is in punishments and incorrect behavor.A kid will not pay attenton to an unknown man in the TV,but he will copy his parents' behavior.People mustn't hurt their kids if they want their children to be psyhically healthy.And they must pay more attention to their kids,explain them what is bad and what is good.Some people say their children are too small to hear this,but they must tell it anyway to prevent them from choosing the wrong path.And some people tell their kids that there is more dark than light in the world.That is not true.Dark equals light in everithyng,and that is the balance all the world stands in.The problem is more huge than you think.All the problems in the world,everything evil comes from fear and anger.When people will learn to control them,when they will learn to protect thier minds from the evil,the society will become peaceful.So,try not to hurt anyone from anger,and start from your childen.Don't hurt them,just try to solve the problem by discussing it.Learn to contpol your fears and anger,and your kids will be fine,and everything will be all right!"

[SimsLover50]

I think children should be children. I think a certain amount of study and focus are neccessary to learn self-discipline, but parents shouldn't overdo it and become Tiger Moms.

I dislike the child beauty pagent, child preacher, child prodigy, kid athletes, who basically are this way because mom and dad And probably the child as well obsessively practiced or studied. To me that's not really talent, just hard work, and while that's great, I think children should be allowed to lead more natural lives, and parents shouldn't use their kids as moneymakers.

[Luxwing_go]

I think parents forget that kids need certain interactions and environments to be emotionally and mental mature in the future. A lot of what these parents are doing, the ones who push their children into becoming adults at such young ages, are causing them to skip several steps in their development as a human being. The adults are causing them to become, if I may, 'stunted' in development. They miss so much information and memories that would help them become mature, stable adults in the future. This is what causes them to become highly unstable as teens-adults: Acting out, violence, sex, drugs, running way, even murder or rape. They are so used to the world they were raised in as children that they do not know how to act in the actual world - they never developed the skills they needed to mentally handle real people and interactions.

I'm also a firm believer that not teaching children some form of sex education is complete ignorance - they don't teach them what it is, the kids find out on their own and BAM - teenage mothers.

These parents are screwing up their own kids, really.

Taking psychology in college really opened my eyes to a lot of this. I can't even watch TLC or MTV anymore - I even deleted the channels. Just...no.

[Dasila]

I agree kids need to be kids. There is a reason why childhood is something that is always linked to happiness and good memories. As a child my parents never "forced" me to do sports but when i would mention that i did not like running and wasnt planning on trying out they would give me the " i am disapointed in you" look. In middle school i had moree b's than a's and that was not okay with them but in high school i wanted to make better grades for myself rather than for them. Which leads me to believe you should not control every ounce of your child. Punishment for grades isnt going to do squat. Parents just need to guide them. I also believe parents shouldnt blame themselves if their child isnt perfect or what not. No one is perfect and every child has their own unique personality. Unless their personality is harmful to them or others yiu shouldnt try changing who they are.

[Dasila]

Also toddlers in tiaras disgusts me. Any show like that disgusts me. If i had to pay money to get that nonsence to stop i would. The kids on that show are not what a kid should be like. I know people who watch the show to laugh at it but i do not think it is a laughable matter.

[selfmadequeen]

I read that the mother in this article told TMZ (not very credible, I know) that she fabricated this whole story for money and attention. I'm not sure if it's true or not.

But the fact that everyone believed her makes me feel like something is seriously wrong with our society when we wouldn't put it past a mother to do something like this.

[malfoya]

Yet another horrible story..
http://wdok.radio.com/2012/01/06/human-barbie-gives-daughter-liposuction-gift-certificate/

This woman, I don't understand her way of thinking. Why does she think that a 7 year old needs to fix ANYTHING? She gave her a gift card for both liposuction and breast implants (for when she's 16). Does she even know how the girl will look when she's 16? For all she know it might be that the girl needs the oposite. Just because a 7 year old "wants" something doesn't make it right to give her it all the time. A 7 year old clearly doesn't know that much about life yet. The daughter will probably be full of crap when she's a teenager, and that's of course because of her mum. I understand that this woman was treated poorly by one of her exes or so, and got her face ruined when he hit her, but that should make her realize that would people need is a little freedom. Her daughter should grow up to become who she wants to be, not who her mum wants her to be.

I know that this debate hasn't been active for quite some time, but I think it's a daily issue that we shouldn't forget about. All these baby misses.. makes me wonder where we are heading!

[Mistermook]

The same direction we've always been headed. It's not as if people have changed appreciably from grubbing for fleas in each other's hair to nuclear power. Idiots are still idiots, haters are gonna hate, everyone's parents screw them up somehow and everyone likes to chatter about how much the other guys suck. We've just got a much bigger gossiping circle to harp with thanks to global communications.

[PhenethyaSim]

I doubt the story is real but people really do this to there young children. This story may have been faked by the Sun using things that have really been done to children in the beauty contest industry probably not all to the same child but its not impossible. its been said that parents should decide what best for a child but just because you created or adopted a child doesn't give you the facalties to be a good mother or father which is why I think people should need a permit to parent. then people like this women wouldn't get to abuse there children and yes this is abuse. I think cosmetic surgery is okay on children but only to fi deformities like hare lip because you don't know at eight years old what your face will mature into. a lot of intresting things have been said but i think this converstion would benifit for not mostly being geard toward beauty Most parents push other things on there children the most common two are academics and sports beuaty is important but that push is often much less agressive.of course i mean with the general public there when beuaty is pushed like in beauty pagents its very agressive but I've seen more children and teens be overly pressured to be straight A+ students or All star athletes or in the case of my school Musical/Artistic prodigies and if you moderatly attractive its easier to make yourself pretty than it is to be a C student and get straight As but that may just be my opinion.

on the topic of whether or not this generation is any dumber than the last is something I think is simple this generations hold some of the most intelligent people ever and some of the least intelligent ever. this is how its been forever the intelligent and the pretty do the best so if your one or the other you are more likely to have a better chance of sucessful breeding this isn't 100% accurate but scientificly speaking this is how it should be the stuipd and the ugly are more likly to die with out producing children but they don't so we have plenty of Smart people and plenty of unintelligent people but the point is this generation is no less and no more intelligent than the last because each averages the two.

wow I wrote more than I intened.

[malfoya]

I actually believe that this story might actually be true. I saw this woman in a TV show where people that are obsessed with their looks meet people who has suffered from diseases or accident that makes them look different. Their goal is in every episode to teach the "pretty ones" that there's more to life than the looks. Every person on the show has on some level acchieved this, besides that woman in the link. She could NOT understand how this other woman could live with being ugly. She didn't treat her badly, but they ended up in a big discussion that ended with her hurting the other woman's feelings.

Here's a picture from the show:
http://images.mirror.co.uk/upl/dailyrecord3/jan2011/1/6/susan-campbell-duncan-sarah-burge-869679336.jpg

Of course things look worse on tv, but I do believe just by looking at her that she has got some issues with her looks. Which she might easily transfer to her daughter. Most people take after their parents. I usually don't judge people for thinking that looks matter, but these are extreme examples.. and should be presented out there so that people can see that no matter how you look you might never get satisfied. It has loads to to with your self esteem.

[minimogut]

That is probably the most disgusting thing I have ever read. Yes, it is the mother's decision, but seriously. She doesn't deserve to be a parent. The saddest part is that little girl. She's going through life thinking that the way to talent is a pushy mother, botox and boob jobs. Poor kid.

[Dordracio]

Yes kids these days, most likely little girls, are spoiled brats. They get facebook when they are in grade 2, get somthing i think its called a convienieance card when they are in grade 4, and want to get cell phones when they are 8 and somtimes expect a plan on it. Some just take the phone evne it has no plan and all you can do is show off you have stuff youmdont need at your age. I dint get my card until i was 12... Well 12 3/4 and i dint get a cellphone yet and will get facebook only very soon. When they show off it makes others jealous and get what they get. And lots of shows/movies about a teenager acting like a rich teen. Or rich adult acting like a rich teen. Hannah Montana is a big problum.

[Dordracio]

But it is true that if a parent is caught child abusing, the child can be taken away to somewhere safer

[PhenethyaSim]

I have to agree children especially female children act entitled to things at ridiculously young ages. like when I was nine no one wore hard core make up all the time and I didn't get a cell phone till I was a freshman in high school and it was the crapiest basic phone ever it had no background two rigntones and pong. yes pong. I didn't have a facebook till my junior year in highschool.and I just got a debit card over the summer I'm a sophmore in college. But whats worse is not parents who give into there kids but the parents who started doing this of there own free will.