Simmers / Sims Commandments

[Simonut]

Simmers I had so much fun reading your "Confessions" in the member Alley Gaytor thread. About things you did with your sims or things relating to Sims, that I wanted to have more fun with it, but in a different way. Ok let just say all you simmers made your confessions or not, to "Father Sim" so that your simmers or Sims souls can be save from SimsHell.

If you have not Confess and clean your soul with "Father Sim" you will be left with two choices. They are do you want to go Up or Down ? Down is where the "Grim Reaper" wait for you at the Red door to enter "SimsHell." There are "NO Rules" there but just live an evil simmer life while playing your Sims. The only thing ask of you is to keep the fire burning day and day out.

Ok if you simmers should go "Up" there at the white door the :bunny: social bunny will wait for you to enter. But there are Rules to follow there when playing your Sims they are The Simmers / Sims Commandments as follow: :deal:

1. Thou shall not woohoo another Sims mate.
2. Thou shall not slap or poke, or insult or fight a Sim.
3. Thou shall not steal a Sims newpaper, Gnome.
4. Thou shall not gossip or speak bad of another Sim.
5. Thou shall not have ten or more children.
6. Thou shall work and care for family.
7. Thou shall not sneak out at night. ( teens )
8. Thou shall not drink Sims Titania Vineyard 1914 champagne.
9. Thou shall not gamble. ( No cards )
10. Thou shall not kill another Sims.

Note: Extra rules if you are a simmers or Sims with any of these "Aspirations."

A. Family - keep house in order, No diapers, bottles, dishes left around.
B. Fortune- No greedy desire for more.
C. Knowledge- To learn all the rules.
D. Popularity- No Parties at No time.
E. Romance- No Slacker, No Woohoo,

As The god of these domain "Up here" these are all my commandments. If you do not follow them you will go Down To The Pits Of SimsHell. Your choice Up or Down.

Simmers out there go a head and have fun with this. Which way will you go ? Just have fun. :giggler:


:alarm: On behalf of simmer "Single Claw Design" or any simmers who find themself in "Limbo " Father Sim have given you 90 days to makeup your mind as to if you want to go Up or Down.
Please remember this is Only For FUN. None of these rules are to be taken seriously to the point that you must use them in your own personal Sims game. Only if you want to.

[Aegagropilon]

...My sims are so going to SimsHell.

(Newspaper-stealing, gossip, and FIGHT-PICKIN' TIME are practically organized sports in my game :lol: )

[Ynouva]

Those are nice commandments, Simonut. But I like being God and the Devil at the same time. :rofl:

[SingleClawDesigns]

I'll reside in Limbo with the crazy doctor.

[AlexandraSpears]

I have the electrified gnome.

[Peni Griffin]

Up there sounds terrible. No parties? No slacker, no woohoo? Sounds like SimsHell to me! The choice is clear.

Sims Hell would be a place where you weren't allowed to play at all.

[smellincoffee]

My only commandment is "do what I say". :)

[FranH]

Simonut, my sims are surely going to SimHell for having broken every single one of those 'commandments' repeatedly-often in the same day-they enjoy every single minute of being unrepentant sinners! :rofl:

My only commandment is:

'thou shalt not be stupid!"

[maxon]

Aaaaaaaaand that's 10 out of 10. Hmmmm. I agree with Peni (again).

[M.M.A.A.]

why does having 10 or more kids is considered as a Simsin?

[SingleClawDesigns]

I'm guessing because it takes away resources i.e less sims can be made due to eventual overpopulated hood. Besides It's not likely that unless that is the founding family of the hood, you'd ever play all 10 seperate kids all the way through their own families.

My only commandment: DO NOT look at me.

Yes i'm talking to you Don Lothario after i tell you to hit on that guy at the bar because i'm tired of you spreading your wild oats around town so now your going at least bi so women can feel safe for a bit from you.

[Peni Griffin]

Commandment 6 isn't "Don't hurt other people" it's "Thou shalt not commit murder," which is very easy for sims not to do. For that matter, even most of my grouchy sims hardly ever get into fights - I keep them too busy.

Anyway, as a Certain Person explained during his lifetime, all ten commandments can be boiled down to two: "Love God" and "Love your Neighbor." If you love your God the first four are easy and if you love your neighbors - or treat everyone in a loving manner, with generosity and forgiveness, which is the first step to actually loving them - the next six are similarly easy. It's the initial loving part that you have to work on; and the trouble with lists of rules beyond these two is, that people start focusing on the minutiae of what the right way to keep the Sabbath holy or be faithful is, interpreting each in tortured ways that allow them to hate their neighbors and exclude them from the people they're supposed to be loving, instead of working on their own hearts. We hate nothing so much as getting the beams out of our own eyes.

As far as the game is concerned, the supplemental commandments on offer, which may be summed up as "Deny and resist your true nature," are what I object to most, as IRL and in the game doing so leads only to misery. At least in the game it's only personal aspiration failure; IRL, you can't deny yourself without lying to everyone around you and the destructive potential of that is enormous. Much better to face up to the truth of yourself as soon as you can, realize that you have certain faults that can be corrected, certain virtues that can be cultivated, and certain traits that are morally neutral but will be treated as faults or virtues by other people, and do the best you can with the package. Possibly Extensa was going for a "moderation in all" approach, with the idea that all these things, as excesses, are too much of a good thing; but that wasn't my first reading at all.

I also resent, on behalf of my beloved Fortune sims, the inference that envy is a natural driving force behind their aspiration. I have two sims I would consider envious; one is indeed Fortune/Pleasure, but her envy is directed at the relationships that other people enjoy; specifically, that other people (many of whom don't behave as well as she does) have gotten into committed relationships and she comes first with absolutely nobody. She settled down to be hard-working and sensible after a wasted (but fun) youth, and nobody appreciates it. Her material wants are all for things that will enable either her Pleasure secondary or her ability to achieve her goals. The other Green-eyed Monster is a grouchy Popularity sim, who has been known to sabotage the relationships of her friends in ways that will lead them to depend more on her. She doesn't like to share people, and she wants to be one up on everyone around her - the Queen Bee personality. Once in awhile a Family sim will get a little envious of a sim who has more children, or has gotten the daughter that she can't get, or something like that.

My Fortune sims want to buy things less often than other people's seem to (probably because I don't indulge these wants nearly as much as I indulge others), and when they do, there's no indication that it's in response to somebody else getting something. Sooner or later I'll get a sim involved in conspicuous consumption (a practice which is half envy, half gluttony), but not yet. You can want expensive things because you want stuff that will be useful for a long time; because you like beautiful things and beautiful things are often expensive (especially in a sims game, where aesthetic value and monetary value are connected in the coding); or because of what you can do with it, without any reference to what anybody else has.

But moral discussions in a gaming context always get acrimonious sooner rather than later, as it's hard to keep the game and real life separate. In the game, the chief virtue, clearly, is happiness. You can tell by the havoc caused by sims in aspiration failure and the mellow affability of sims at platinum. Happy sims are busy, useful, and easy to get along with. Unhappy ones refuse to work even to improve their situations, pick fights, and break things. Unhappy sims die miserable deaths. Happy sims get seen off with hula girls and umbrella drinks.

[Clashfan]

Gossiping alone could be sending my Sims straight to hell. About the only one they don't break is number 8 and that's because I find the constant toasting annoying.

I think my only commandment for my Sims would be "Thou shall not sing the sea chanty or I will smite you repeatedly".

[omglo]

I only have one - Thou shalt not kick over any trashcans.

[Peni Griffin]

Denying your true self causes suicide.

Things are wrong for reasons. Denying your true self is wrong. There is always a moral way to be your true self. "Lack of social ettiquette" is not a character imperative. It's a learned behavior. Being gay or straight or bi or asexual, being a loner, being gregarious, being intellectual, being spiritual, being physical - that's innate. That can't be changed. People who want you to change that are people you should walk away from. Even in real life, it really is that simple.

In sims, which is a game, it's even simpler. Your aspiration is your character imperative. The player gets to choose it. Deny it, be miserable. Work with it, be happy. You don't have to leave a trail of broken hearts if you have a Romance aspiration. You don't have to be greedy to have a Fortune aspiration. There are circumstances in which having 10 children is wrong and there are circumstances in which it's perfectly fine.

[SingleClawDesigns]

New Commandment from me:

Thou shall not bitch when I buy what was rolled for. You rolled it deal with it. Do not shake your head and groan because I can't help your stupidity that your wants interfered with my color scheme for your house.

Why didn't they add in something to tell a sims favorite color. I've noticed that for some sims it's always a certain color that they'll groan at, but it varies from sim to sim.

[AlexandraSpears]

I don't consider myself as any kind of deity. However, I wish I could issue a command: Thou shalt not question me when I direct you to do something you WANTED to do! (Like extremely playful Pleasure Sims that roll a want to play chess...then act like I cussed them out or something when I direct them to do it.)

[ForeverCamp]

My 10 Commandments of Simming:

1. Thou shalt not practice lycanthropy, vampirism or witchcraft (yet. I may take a gander at making a coven of witches in Pleasantview when the Brotherhood collapses).
2. Thou shalt not bargain with the Grim Reaper. When you die, you're dead. End of story.
3. Thou shalt deal with the life thou hast been dealt. Didn't go to university? Guess you're not getting that LTW of becoming Chief of Staff. Sucks to be you - go flip burgers.
4. Thou shalt live within thy means. Yes, you were the one who decided to Woohoo your girlfriend and knocked her up. Therefore, you can deal with the lack of finances to go out and party.
5. Thou shalt be open to roommates. When real estate is in such dire straits as it is, you will probably get a roomie or two to ease the burden on the construction company.
6. Thou shalt not be stupid as all heck. Lord Pescado is your friend.
7. Thou shalt keep thine place in line. We are on a strict timeline, here, and no, your supercallafragalisticexpiallidociously-amazing storyline will not earn you any extra time in the rotation.
8. Thou shalt be subjected to testing from time to time, be it in the form of a house, or of a career.
9. Thou shalt accept that sometimes, life sucks.
10. Thou shalt resign thyself to be immortalized for all time on The Pleasantview Files. Yes. Every little detail of your life will be subject to public scrutiny. Deal with it.

[Simonut]

@ > Peni Griffin and > Extensa 5420 > I must be missing something here, What Topic or Subject are you two on ? You two are making a Mole Hill and turning it into a Big Mountain.
I think I was very clear in my presentation I ask two questions surrounding the Sims Comandments, they are > > Which Way Will You Go ? Do you want to go Up or Down ? Those are the choices.
Plain and simple all for FUN. And it's cool to add your own commandments as some members have done so.

The both of you are beginning to sound like you have both travel "Down" into SimsHell. :blink:

[maxon]

Why didn't they add in something to tell a sims favorite color. I've noticed that for some sims it's always a certain color that they'll groan at, but it varies from sim to sim.
I think that would be quite hard - or at least unwieldy to code. Everything in the game would need a colour code. And there are odd things about how humans see colour.

[Peni Griffin]

This is the part to which I object:

Note: Extra rules if you are a simmers or Sims with any of these "Aspirations."

A. Family - keep house in order, No diapers, bottles, dishes left around.
B. Fortune- No greedy desire for more.
C. Knowledge- To learn all the rules.
D. Popularity- No Parties at No time.
E. Romance- No Slacker, No Woohoo,

It is not always physically possible to keep a house in perfect order, whatever aspiration you are. Learning all the rules is a very strange commandment for which I find no context. A sim can't learn rules, only skills, parenting, etc. "No greedy desire for more," "No Parties at No time," and "No Slacker, No Woohoo" are explicitly telling the sim to deny his own nature. Nothing is wrong with having a party. A Fortune sim can't help what wants he rolls and it's the desire for more being ruled against - so that one can't even be done. And why shouldn't a Romance sim be on the slacker track and woohoo? These things are not wrong in themselves, and somebody's got to man the cash registers at the convenience stores!

As for denying oneself causing suicide: It is too personal, too off-topic, and too upsetting to go into this, but - Depressive since 1961, I know exactly what I'm talking about. You face yourself, you accept yourself, you learn to deal with that, and you eventually manage, regardless of the odds, to lead a more or less happy and productive life. You deny yourself, you reject yourself, you never learn to deal with yourself, you destroy yourself and/or those around you. Those who don't accept themselves never learn to accept other people, either.

Real lives don't need rules; they need guidelines. Every rule is wrong for somebody, at some time. All generalizations are false.

As I said in my first post, moral discussions in gaming contexts always prove acrimonious sooner rather than later, and that's boring to the general public and not profitable for those involved, so I'm done here. Sorry to be part of the problem I pointed out myself. (It's the people who deny that they're part of the problem who won't let go of it and perpetuate it.)

[SingleClawDesigns]

OK so if I really have to choose up or down (no middle like i suggested lol) I could go up BUT I have a question

5. Thou shall not have ten or more children.

Does this mean just as a whole family unit or do previous marriage offspring count into the total as well for a sim? Most of my sims only have up to 4 per family but ex marriages would sometimes put that total over ten depending on how many times they've been married.

[Simonut]

This is the part to which I object:

Note: Extra rules if you are a simmers or Sims with any of these "Aspirations."

A. Family - keep house in order, No diapers, bottles, dishes left around.
B. Fortune- No greedy desire for more.
C. Knowledge- To learn all the rules.
D. Popularity- No Parties at No time.
E. Romance- No Slacker, No Woohoo,

It is not always physically possible to keep a house in perfect order, whatever aspiration you are. Learning all the rules is a very strange commandment for which I find no context. A sim can't learn rules, only skills, parenting, etc. "No greedy desire for more," "No Parties at No time," and "No Slacker, No Woohoo" are explicitly telling the sim to deny his own nature. Nothing is wrong with having a party. A Fortune sim can't help what wants he rolls and it's the desire for more being ruled against - so that one can't even be done. And why shouldn't a Romance sim be on the slacker track and woohoo? These things are not wrong in themselves, and somebody's got to man the cash registers at the convenience stores!

As for denying oneself causing suicide: It is too personal, too off-topic, and too upsetting to go into this, but - Depressive since 1961, I know exactly what I'm talking about. You face yourself, you accept yourself, you learn to deal with that, and you eventually manage, regardless of the odds, to lead a more or less happy and productive life. You deny yourself, you reject yourself, you never learn to deal with yourself, you destroy yourself and/or those around you. Those who don't accept themselves never learn to accept other people, either.

Real lives don't need rules; they need guidelines. Every rule is wrong for somebody, at some time. All generalizations are false.

As I said in my first post, moral discussions in gaming contexts always prove acrimonious sooner rather than later, and that's boring to the general public and not profitable for those involved, so I'm done here. Sorry to be part of the problem I pointed out myself. (It's the people who deny that they're part of the problem who won't let go of it and perpetuate it.)


@ > Peni Griffin > Why do you continue to make things difficult for yourself ? This is Not Real Life Commandments / Rules as may be found in the bible word for word. The Sims are Not real, I did not say every member have to follow these rules there are choices given here.

This was just a kick off of some rules I came up with to have a "FUN Subject", just to see if members would choose to go Up or go Down to SimsHell I will repeat that again "To Have Fun To See If Members" would choose to go Up where there are Rules / Commandments /or Down to SimsHell where there are No Rules.

I never said you "Peni Griffin" or any Simmers must play by these Commandments / Rules in their own personal game they was written just to see which way a simmers would go, on this thread alone just For FUN. I am sure all simmers have their own Commandments or rules in their own game just as some members have voice their own madeup commandments / Rules here on this thread.

I do not want to sound or be rude "Peni Griffin" for we are all here to share and have some kind of fun doing so with respect. But it is not always a good idea to "Sabotage" a member or any simmers threads with "Off Topic Subjects" if you want to write about suicide or more serious discussions please start your own thread go to "Off Topic Section" or "The Debate Room" MTS setup those sections of the site for such topics.

We all have "Freedom Of Speak" yes but there is a time and place and right Topic or Subject for it to be given voice at.

[aUserName]

The Ten Sim Commandments

1. I am your Lord your God-game player, who brought you out of the land of CAS, out of the house with one window. You shall have no other freewill before me.

2. You shall not make yourself useless on idol. Whether it is in the form of staring blankly into heaven above, or blankly into that that is on the earth beneath, or that that is in the water under the sea (if the Lord your God-game player doth have Bon Voyage.)

3. You shall not make use of whining and hand waving in vain. The Lord will not acquit someone who whines His name when thou doth have the ability to fulfill thine motives thine selves.

4. Remember the all night simming spree and keep it holy. For six days the Lord shall labor and do all the work, but the seventh day is the simming day to the Lord; you shall all live as simulations—you, your second gen son or daughter, your male or female servo, your pets and custom content livestock, and the green alien residents in your towns.

5. Honour the rolled wishes of your father and your mother until the Lord hath picked a new heir, so that your days may be long in the legacy house that the Lord your God-game player hath built for you.

6. You shall not murder; instead you shall feed your enemies unto the cow plant.

7. You shall not commit adultery, or you shall commit adultery if the Lord your God-game player doth feel like it.

8. You shall not steal the newspaper nor shall you kick the trash can; unless the house hath a bot that shall sap you.

9. You shall not bare your pixelated skin around your neighbor even if thou doth have 10 outgoing points.

10. You shall not roll wishes for objects from your neighbour’s house; you shall not roll wishes to flirt with your neighbour’s wife, or male or female servo, nor shall you roll wishes to pet his dogs or cats (you are never going to see them again anyway); the Lord your God-game player hath spent a long time making things the way they are and He doth like it this way.

[Simonut]

The Ten Sim Commandments

1. I am your Lord your God-game player, who brought you out of the land of CAS, out of the house with one window. You shall have no other freewill before me.

6. You shall not murder; instead you shall feed your enemies unto the cow plant.

8. You shall not steal the newspaper nor shall you kick the trash can; unless the house hath a bot that shall sap you.

9. You shall not bare your pixelated skin around your neighbor even if thou doth have 10 outgoing points.

10. You shall not roll wishes for objects from your neighbour’s house; you shall not roll wishes to flirt with your neighbour’s wife, or male or female servo, nor shall you roll wishes to pet his dogs or cats (you are never going to see them again anyway); the Lord your God-game player hath spent a long time making things the way they are and He doth like it this way.


@> aUserName > You made my day ( lmao ) with your Commandments, the ones above are my favorite. Therefore Thou shall "Reign" with me by my side Forever.
These Commandments from this day forward are also "added" as the Sims Commandments / Rules. No Sims shall Speak against thee, so be it. :king:

Commandment No. 6 > Will happen only if thou Shall kill "Up Here" then thee will get Kick Down to the pits of "SimHell" there the Grim Reaper may feed thee to the "CowPlant."

[saskganesh]

Seriously wacky thread largely prescribing someone else's ethics as an interesting game option ... If this is really a "challenge" then label as such.

My commandment would simply be to not worship false gods.

EDIT: I think what is bugging me is the cavalier use of "god" and implied ownership of "god" in this context. The tone is all wrong and I am finding it offensive.

[aUserName]

And, the Lord Simonut said “Let there be a thread”; and there was a thread. And She saw the thread She had made and saw that it was good.

Simonut]@> aUserName > You made my day ( lmao ) with your Commandments, the ones above are my favorite. Therefore Thou shall "Reign" with me by my side Forever.
These Commandments from this day forward are also "added" as the Sims Commandments / Rules. No Sims shall Speak against thee, so be it. :king:

Thanks!! :D :king:

And the God-game players blessed their sims and said be fruitful and multiply, and fill your neighborhood. And they saw the neighborhoods they had made and saw that they were good.

[Simonut]

Seriously wacky thread largely prescribing someone else's ethics as an interesting game option ... If this is really a "challenge" then label as such.

My commandment would simply be to not worship false gods.

EDIT: I think what is bugging me is the cavalier use of "god" and implied ownership of "god" in this context. The tone is all wrong and I am finding it offensive.

@ > saskganesh > No It is "NOT" a Challenge, if it was I would have said so in my presentation from the very start. As for using the word god there are many gods as in Greek Mythology. The meaning of god is a person or thing greatly admired and respected. If this is offensive to you then maybe we all need to STOP using names or words such as follow :

1. god- child
2. god- daughter
3. god- father
4. god- mother or fairy godmother
5. god- parent
6. goddess or lordship - as use in Great Britain as a title used in writng or speaking about a noblemen of a certain rank.

This thread had nothing to do with "religion' or who is the Supreme Being. Every society in the world have commandments or rules to follow. These are just some "FUN" commandments for the Sims world who really is not a real world.

[AlexandraSpears]

My commandments for Sims:

--No WooHoo before marriage
--No WooHoo with anyone you are not married to, in fact.
--Romance Sims will toe the line, or find their aspiration changed--or be assigned a secondary aspiration, at Alexandra's whim. Instead of chasing babes you'll chase the Simoleons. Or grilled-cheese sandwiches....
--No divorce is permitted. Kiss, make up, move on. Divorced couples (as in already divorced when the 'hood is loaded)--remarriage is okay if your spouse had cheated on you. Otherwise, you will kiss and make up. Wedding party is optional.
--No requests for objects you can't afford and/or don't have room for. Be patient and save your money.
--No rolling wants, then having a hissy when directed to fulfill that want. If you Pleasure Sims think chess is for geeks, then stop rolling wants to play it! (Bonus if their chosen hobby is Games.)

[Clashfan]

Seriously wacky thread largely prescribing someone else's ethics as an interesting game option ... If this is really a "challenge" then label as such.

My commandment would simply be to not worship false gods.

EDIT: I think what is bugging me is the cavalier use of "god" and implied ownership of "god" in this context. The tone is all wrong and I am finding it offensive.

I think maybe you need to lighten up just a bit. The thread is wacky as it's just for fun.

[AlexandraSpears]

I personally don't like the term "God game" myself...but I remind myself, when you're playing with Barbies dolls as children, you're doing the same thing.

I remember my sister and her Midge doll, when we were kids...the forerunner of the diehard Family Sim. According to my sister, all that doll would do was lie there and pop out babies. And we built houses for them too.

Only difference is, I'm doing the same thing at 38 on the computer as I did at the age of 8 with Barbies.

[aUserName]

Hmm, I see that my second post could be read as a responding to saskganesh’s post. I just want to say that it wasn’t meant to be and I hope I didn’t seem inflammatory.

Saskganesh, I think it is perfectly reasonable to be careful about religious subjects since it is such an important part of many people’s lives (and many people want nothing to do with it.) I would never expect anyone on this site to ascribe to a certain religion (or any religion.) But, personally, I don’t think religion is so taboo that we can never talk about it in a light manner. And, I really don't think this thread is about Christianity at all.

Anyway, I hope I didn’t misunderstand your post, but I think you're saying that you find this thread ethnocentric. So, I made another list involving tenants from Buddhism. (I'm going to put it in a separate post.)

[aUserName]

The eightfold path to relieving your simulated suffering.

1. Right knowledge: A sims must gain the proper number of cooking point so they don’t set themselves on fire.

2. Right aspiration: Too many of the same aspiration in a neighborhood increases suffering.

3. Right speech: Happiness is achieved when The Buddha hears Simlish.

4. Right behavior— detailed in the Five Sim Precepts:

Do not kill. Instead lock in the pool without a ladder.
Do not steal from my sims Unsavory Charlton.
Do not lie on the pet bed little toddler—the dog needs that.
Do not be unchaste—avoid all the maxis crop tops.
Do not spend all day smoking from the bubble blower or drinking from the pineapple (unless Buddha thinks it fits your character.)

5. Right livelihood: It is important that you don’t just pick a career track for the simolians. To achieve enlightenment pick a career according to the absurdity of the work outfit.

6. Right effort: Put your effort where it is most mindful. For example, before spending 3 hours trying to get into an occupied bathroom remember you have 4 other bathrooms.

7. Right mindfulness: Avoid wishing for a something and a fearing something at the same time (this is an example of the simish monkey mind.)

8. Right absorption: It is important to roll a variety of wants and fears. For example, try not to have all your fears involve you brother’s pets being sprayed by a skunk.

[Simsane]

Great thread, Simonut -- sorry it took me so long to check it out. I think most of my sims would have gone up, but maybe if I had played some that were destined to go down I would have enjoyed it more. I love aUserNames commandments, they made me laugh. :)


@tomegtt -- I think you are in the wrong thread.

[Ynouva]

@Simsane He's a spammer. He's been spamming other threads in the TS3 discussions threads with the same message.

[MsScribble]

Thou shall not kanoodle in the photo booth, lest I visit thee with thy crumplebottom!

[AlexandraSpears]

I have a command for Mrs. Crumplebottom: Thou shalt not lecture Sims showering at the local gym for being naked!

(Seriously, she does that. My Sims want a shower after a workout, and here comes the old battleaxe!)

[Simonut]

I have a command for Mrs. Crumplebottom: Thou shalt not lecture Sims showering at the local gym for being naked!

(Seriously, she does that. My Sims want a shower after a workout, and here comes the old battleaxe!)

@ AlexandraSpears and @ > MsScribble >> hahaha I love you two Commandments about Mrs. Crumplebottom. :rofl: old battleaxe do no know if she belong Up or Down.