Mod The Sims - Won't be forgotten...

unalisaa

11th Sep 2011, 08:48 AM

I can see how doing a video game replica can be trivialising*, but I fail to see how the addition of the plane is what makes it insulting. What people are telling you to NEVER FORGET is not the World Trade Center in its pride because frankly, no one cares about office buildings. The POINT of remembering 11/09-2001 is to remember that planes crashed into buildings, killing people, because that is what happened, and that is what is tragic about it. Yeah, it's in your face in a way that lacks the symbolism of intact towers, and it's morbid. But if it hurts to watch, it's clearly doing its work as a way to make you remember.

That said, I think a public forum is an uncomfortable place to be so in-your-face about it. But to me, that doesn't mean you should tone things down to make them fit for consumption, but that public forums might not be the best place to discuss these things. What are we all going to say, anyway? "My condolences to anyone who was affected"? "I have been scarred for life"? "):"?
Everything has been said. Nothing can be changed. If you want to make a difference, take a good look at The Falling Man, consider it carefully, and quit yapping.

*unless you consider video games an art medium, I suppose, but that's another discussion.

Edit: I just realised how fitting it is that the only one who is yapping here is me.
EditEdit: General you, not Morphead in particular.

maxon

11th Sep 2011, 08:49 AM

Seems a bit tasteless and I thought the Atomium was in Brussels.

Morphead

11th Sep 2011, 09:21 AM

I can see how doing a video game replica can be trivialising*, but I fail to see how the addition of the plane is what makes it insulting. What people are telling you to NEVER FORGET is not the World Trade Center in its pride because frankly, no one cares about office buildings. The POINT of remembering 11/09-2001 is to remember that planes crashed into buildings, because that is what happened, and that is what is tragic about it. Yeah, it's in your face in a way that lacks the symbolism of intact towers, and it's morbid. But if it hurts to watch, it's clearly doing its work as a way to make you remember.

*unless you consider video games an art medium, I suppose, but that's another discussion.

Point of remembering is not to remember planes crashing into a building, but the people that were killed, which happened to be cause by a plane. To me, this picture looks as if the plane is about to hit again, perhaps killing all those people over. I would of been fine if it the towers were destroyed or not there even, but as it looks now, I do not like it. This is quite possibly the worst frame one could had captured. It's insulting to me. And it's insulting to anyone who had to watch a plane like that barrel into a building killing their loved ones.... Idk, perhaps my thoughts are too nationalist. But senseless killing is a Red Flag in my mind.

Edit: Your siggie and avatar holds my thoughts perfectly :/

unalisaa

11th Sep 2011, 09:25 AM

Point of remembering is not to remember planes crashing into a building, but the people that were killed, which happened to be cause by a plane. To me, this picture looks as if the plane is about to hit again, perhaps killing all those people over. I would of been fine if it the towers were destroyed or not there even, but as it looks now, I do not like it. This is quite possibly the worst frame one could had captured. It's insulting to me. And it's insulting to anyone who had to watch a plane like that barrel into a building killing their loved ones.... Idk, perhaps my thoughts are too nationalist. But senseless killing is a Red Flag in my mind.

Edit: Your siggie and avatar holds my thoughts perfectly :/
I see where you're coming from, and I can see how the picture can come off as senseless. I have edited my above post to make my thoughts more clear.

As for your edit: I have always been a believer in accurate branding. However, I don't think I'm exhibiting particularly idiotic tendencies in this thread. If you would elaborate on what makes you think this, I can see what I can do to explain myself.

PeterFoster111

11th Sep 2011, 10:12 AM

Yeah, it's been a decade since the attack.

It's really tragic to hear that 3,000 people, including babies and children, were killed.

Robodl95

11th Sep 2011, 01:55 PM

I don't think that he meant for the picture to be insulting. It's hard to believe that it's already been ten years, what a horrifying day in history...
To move this thread away from talking about the picture would anyone like to share where they were when they heard the news, etc.? Those stories are always interesting. I was in Kindergarten so I don't have a vivid memory of it but I remember that people were really scared and I didn't know why. I think we were sent home from school early.

Nissun

11th Sep 2011, 02:34 PM

Too far, man. Now I feel terrible for laughing. But it's just...

What the hell?

maxon

11th Sep 2011, 05:47 PM

I was at home here in the UK - my year starts with the academic year at the end of September so I was officially 'not at work' (I'm not going to say 'on holiday' because that's not how it works, I had plenty of work to do). Anyway, I always have the news on and we started seeing the reports coming in. We are about 5 hours (I think) ahead of east coast America so it was about 2pm when the news started to come in. I was horrified, of course, but also it was horribly fascinating as only news event reporting can be these days with constant updates and commentary from whatever Joe Expert the TV companies drag in off the street at the drop of a hat. I watched the news all day long (but then I am known to do that anyway sometimes) but, unusually, my husband watched with me in the evening. Truly a terrible thing though the world and its history is filled with such things.

Rawra

11th Sep 2011, 06:32 PM

I was 9 back then (actually, 8 and something, but my birthday's on the 10th of October, so it's not such a big difference), and I was simply mortified to hear how many innocent people died. I remember the news channel was on, and, as I walked in from school and saw it, I just dropped my sandwich I was eating and remained like that, with a face that is best immortalized by this emoticon, ":O", for about 2 minutes. It was horrible, just... Horrible.

Oaktree

11th Sep 2011, 07:15 PM

I was also 10 going on 11 and in sixth grade. We weren't told anything about what had happened while we were in school, but we got sent home early. I'm not quite sure why the school chose not to tell us, but it was very confusing, as we were hearing vague things about the school day being cut short and something having happened, but we didn't know what. My mom explained it when she came to pick me up and then I saw it on the news. I honestly didn't know how to react to it. It was rather surreal. I thought it was terrible that all those people had died, but the horror of the event didn't really strike me until I started hearing more about the personal stories of people who had died in the towers as I got older.

BurgundyStars

11th Sep 2011, 07:40 PM

I was in seventh grade and we heard the announcement during math class. I think I might have seen a brief flash of what was happening on the TV before I went to school, but I didn't pay any mind to it since I was in a hurry. One of the other teachers came in the classroom and told us about the attacks while crying. The whole scope of the event didn't really hit me either when it was older. In the weeks afterward, our school made us practice drills to hide in case of an attack. We found it funny much to the faculty's dismay, but we were young and we were in a small town in the Northeast. We didn't think our area had any chance of being attacked.

caddy_lincoln

11th Sep 2011, 08:15 PM

It was not an insult, by all means! Neither a joke, how can you joke with that? :blink:

I never thought that reconstituing a scene using game pictures would be considered SOO insulting... :faceslap:

BTW the plane was not inserted by editing the pic, it is a 'hood helicopter replacement and by the moment it appeared, I thought it would add drama, but I never intend to get THAT kind of drama. :cry:

Nissun

11th Sep 2011, 08:21 PM

(Ok, is anyone else having trouble trying not to smirk at the original picture? Because I can't help but laugh awkwardly every time I look at it. I mean, to me it doesn't look like it was trying to be intentionally offensive, it's just a very misguided attempt at a homage.

It's just really, really inapropriate, but also kinda innocent... Don't take offense, caddy_lincoln. It's just that maybe the Sims 2 isn't the best way to represent a touching tragedy. Some media aren't just fit for it. Like cakes, for example. It's just not appropriate.

I also love how it's presented without comment. It's just... Too much. I can't help it.)

I was 11 at the time, the thing I remember best is specifically not noticing how important the thing was. It was kinda stupid of me, but I guess I didn't have the international awareness I have now. It feels like ages ago. God, it really does.

Also, nobody had linked me to Jon Stewart's speech after the attack before today (in 2001 I didn't even know who Jon Stewart was) I'm going to link it (http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-september-20-2001/september-11--2001) because I think it's worth a look. (It's also on youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bb3gInJAY6g) )

[edit]: caddy_lincoln managed to post before I did, but my point still stands.

el_flel

11th Sep 2011, 08:40 PM

I'm English, so the attacks happened about 1pm here. I was at school playing netball in PE when the attacks happened. Our deputy Head Master came out and told one of my classmates, Tom, that the Twin Towers had been hit by a plane. I'd never heard of the Twin Towers before and didn't know how serious it was.

When I got home about 3:30pm I turned on the TV and every single channel was news about the attacks. I turned on the radio and it was either news or just music. That's when I realised how bad it was.

It might be a decade later, but that event is still horrifying and upsetting.

qpldmff

11th Sep 2011, 09:34 PM

I was in second grade. I live in a suburb of New York, but we weren't sent home early. I remember that I didn't feel scared or even sad - I was too young to be empathetic, and I didn't know anyone who was close to any of the victims (I've met a few since then, though). I just thought of it as more surreal than anything else. From my town's coast, we could see Manhattan, and I remember when I first moved to town and my parents pointed out how we could see the Twin Towers all the way from the other side of the Sound. When I went to the local beach again once spring came, it was disorienting to see the distant silhouette of Manhattan without the Twin Towers.

Chammalia

11th Sep 2011, 09:52 PM

I have had this clip of the second plane flying into the second twin tower stuck in my head for 10 years. I was 9 at that time. It was a horrible thing that you could just watch it all on television. It was horrible that someone would do this kind of thing.

caddy_lincoln

12th Sep 2011, 02:54 AM

I think some clarification is needed here...

To begin with, the point is to remember a tragic event, so obviously it's not meant to make people feel confortable, much the contrary! :|

Secondly, it's not the plane in the pic that is insulting, the REAL planes that hit the towers that truly were, actually a slap in the face not only to America but to the entire free world.

The fact that it is a pic from the game is just a form of media, as would have been an oil painting or a photo, and it was used because this forum is about the game, not because someone was playing in the game and making fun of it.

Just like Picasso's "Guernica", it's meant to shock people, to overcome indifference, as people tend to unconsciously erase bad memories from their brains.

And just like Guernica, it's not the image that is inadequate, tasteless, or downright outrageous - the real events that inspired it that truly were all this and more.

To finalize, the Atomium was a way to remember that this was a catastrophe that affected the whole world, not just NYC.

I'm sorry that so many people didn't understand my real message, and I apologize for that... :(

ElementMK

12th Sep 2011, 03:52 AM

Comparing a TS2 screenshot to Picasso ...
http://i51.tinypic.com/2csjd53.gif

vhanster

12th Sep 2011, 06:29 PM

unalisaa

12th Sep 2011, 06:37 PM

May I know why we have to remember a day on which a plane crashes into an office building? I mean, terrorist are everywhere, and terrorism is always happening. Why only this particular event is still remembered until now?
Much like the Vietnam War was the first war to be televised, thus changing how everyone viewed war, the 9/11 attacks were (to my knowledge) the first act of terrorism broadcast live to the entire world.
And because it happened in the USA, which produces the vast majority of media consumed worldwide. If it's important to Americans, everyone will see it. And what happened was horrible enough that anyone who saw it was changed in at least some little way.
I think you might find it useful to look up the concept "post-9/11". It's an interesting subject, really.

Nissun

12th Sep 2011, 07:07 PM

Erm... No it wasn't the first "live broadcast" of a terrorist attack of our time. 9/11 was special, but not because of that. TV has been around for a while, covering terrorist attacks. It's the nature of the attack itself what made it different.

I mean, the fact that it happened in New York. The fact that one of the most recognisable elements of it's skyline exploded. That's what made it so special. The clouds of smoke and debris as the towers fell, following the people fleeing on the ground... Those kind of images are very powerful. Live coverage of a bomb at a supermarket, for example, wouldn't have the same visual power. It would be terribly tragic, but it wouldn't have the same visual impact in the audience.

Why do you think the "independence day" movie was so popular when it came out? The public is fascinated by the sight of destruction of iconic landmarks. Don't ask me why, but it's a reality. Maybe even since "Planet of the Apes", but Roland Emmerich really made it popular. And he kept doing it, even after 9/11. It's really touching, it's a morbid fascination. Of course, when the images we're seeing are real, and we realize that people are actually dying there, they stop being thrilling and become horrifying.

Also, you ask "why only this particular event is still remembered until now?" Seriously? Do you seriously think that 9/11 is the only tragedy remembered on it's anniversary ever?

unalisaa

12th Sep 2011, 07:19 PM

unalisaa

12th Sep 2011, 07:26 PM

What do you mean by "shown the same way"?
The same thing you meant. I say no attacks have been broacast live, worldwide, before. You say "Yes, they have; TV has existed for a long time". It's not terribly important, but I'm interested in examples because this is not a subject I know a lot about.

Nissun

12th Sep 2011, 07:31 PM

What do you mean by "shown the same way"? Shown as they actually happen? Because honestly, I can't think of any attacks that consisted on a first wave, and a second one.

Look, I'm from the Basque Country. That's why I mention that there has been tv coverage of terrorist attacks before: Because, though all my childhood (the 90's), I grew up hearing on tv about them way too often. And no, they did not produce powerful images like 9/11. Because most of them consisted of bombs placed on cars, government buildings, and assassinated politicians. The only explosions that were probably caught on camera were the ones manually controlled by the police, after the artifact was found (or after they had been tipped off by the terrorist themselves, which they often did)

Also, everybody knows America, while you probably don't even know where the Basque Country is. And it's perfectly natural.

Both things are terrorism. Both things are atrocities. It's just that the coverage of 9/11 produced very, very shocking images, because of how it happened.

Morphead

12th Sep 2011, 08:32 PM

May I know why we have to remember a day on which a plane crashes into an office building? I mean, terrorist are everywhere, and terrorism is always happening. Why only this particular event is still remembered until now?

Again, it's not so much remembering "A plane crashing into an office building". It's remembering the nearly 3000 people that died, that happened to had been caused by a plane, and a large scale attack on the US by terrorist, which happened to had been carried out with planes. Truthfully it could of been a massive bomb or Godzilla himself that attack the US. The fact remains, many people died, many on Live television. Like Unalissa and Nissun mentioned, such sights bitch slapped America and startled everyone.

Erm... No it wasn't the first "live broadcast" of a terrorist attack of our time. 9/11 was special, but not because of that. TV has been around for a while, covering terrorist attacks. ...

I don't agree. I feel this is the first Live broadcast, worldwide, of an active terrorist event. I discount riots and car bombs and stuff like that as your not actually seeing the bomb explode. The buildings fall. The people killed. 9/11 showed images reserved for movies and fiction...

Robodl95

12th Sep 2011, 08:55 PM

May I know why we have to remember a day on which a plane crashes into an office building? I mean, terrorist are everywhere, and terrorism is always happening. Why only this particular event is still remembered until now?
Terrorism happens all the time but the fact that it killed so many people at an expected time/place in such a dramatic fashion with the whole world watching creates a large event. This year was the 70th anniversary of Pearl Harbor and I remember seeing that on the news also so you are false. Naturally as time goes by less and less people will care as much. 9/11 was only 10 years ago. There haven't been any terrorist attacks as big since 9/11. We're also still at war so there's a lot of revenge type stuff also. You sound really insulting, it's like saying why remember WWII? After all wars happen all the time.

Chammalia

12th Sep 2011, 10:09 PM

Robodl95

12th Sep 2011, 11:06 PM

Look, I'm from the Basque Country. That's why I mention that there has been tv coverage of terrorist attacks before: Because, though all my childhood (the 90's), I grew up hearing on tv about them way too often. And no, they did not produce powerful images like 9/11. Because most of them consisted of bombs placed on cars, government buildings, and assassinated politicians. The only explosions that were probably caught on camera were the ones manually controlled by the police, after the artifact was found (or after they had been tipped off by the terrorist themselves, which they often did)
I know where Basque Country is, though I don't remember any attacks there cause I wasn't born yet :P

I'm also going to talk about what had happened on April 10 in 2010. It wasn't a terrorist attack but a plane crash where the president of Poland, his wife and 94 other important people died. I don't even know whether it was broadcast abroad or not but it was also very traumatic and unforgettable for the Polish nation. Nobody really wanted it to be broadcast or talked about on such a scale because what for? Poland is not an important country in the world and nobody would care about it abroad.
I remember seeing that on the news and in the newspaper, I was very shocked by it. People did care as seen by the comments left on news sites.

Morphead

12th Sep 2011, 11:12 PM

...
I'm also going to talk about what had happened on April 10 in 2010. It wasn't a terrorist attack but a plane crash where the president of Poland, his wife and 94 other important people died. ...

This was broadcasted, of course to no extent as 9/11. If I remember correctly.., the Russian model of the plane they were using had been known to have issues. I can't remember what exactly, but that was the cause I believe. Although, like you said Poland isn't high on my list of important countries, it is still an important incident that occurred. And it as well, should be remembered. Only it won't be global since as you said, it was comparatively small and in a less dominant country.

PeterFoster111

23rd Sep 2011, 07:33 PM

Umm... this was days ago now, so... lock it?

HystericalParoxysm

23rd Sep 2011, 08:01 PM

And yet you saw it necessary to bump it after not having any replies since the 13th to complain that it needed locking? ... wut?

Perfectionist

23rd Sep 2011, 09:47 PM

I know i'm a little late for this, but I don't find the picture that disrespectful. I was 6 when it happened, and unfortunately my mother lost her brother who was at work there, that day. I don't see anything wrong with remembering what happened and thinking about all of the lives that were changed/lost. Maybe the plane wasn't necessary I guess, but It's a nice picture.