Halloween costumes racist?

[kristie91]

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/trending-now/campaign-against-racially-insensitive-halloween-costumes-filmmaker-funds-154939433.html

I was reading this article and to me it seems somewhat stupid. Not all of it but some.. I can see how an Arab with a bomb seems racist. A Latino wearing a sombrero and a poncho not.

Edit- I might of read the article slightly wrong but I think they are being over sensitive.. my mexican friend would totally go dressed up in a poncho and sombrero.. does that make him racist?

[Robodl95]

I went in a sombrero with a poncho and fake mustache a few years ago. Everyone wanted me to ask for candy in Spanish :| I think anyone who finds that racist needs to chill out.

[kristie91]

I dunno I guess I can kind of see their point but it just seems to be a little silly to me.. Maybe I'm wrong I dunno... I just don't see it as offensive maybe if I was Latino or Japanese I would...

Edit-I just realized I spelled costumes wrong... Oh and what if I like geishas, like their makeup and dress.. that makes me racist?

[5M0K3]

No! When I was 14 I went as a geisha... That's not racist at ALL. It would be racist if you went as an Asian with a dead dog in your hand, NOW THAT'S RACIST, but geisha? No.

[coltraz]

So wait, Halloweening as a member of the Taliban is racist? Against whom? As if anyone has cultural pride in the Taliban. Now just dressing up as someone from the middle east and holding a stick of dynamite, I can see that's a bit insensative. But going specifically as a "terrorist" - no. It's a bit of fun. :| I don't see how dressing as a Geisha is remotely racist, either. I mean, it's a friggen HALLOWEEN COSTUME. They are not meant to be worn, or taken seriously.

[DrowningFishy]

I get a sense of deja vu with this topic. Yeah, some costumes maybe seen as racist, but you know Halloween is about having fun. Just as long as we don't go around being racist, as in blurting it out of our mouths, really don't see what the big deal is. But then I am from a place were an half Afercan American guy decided it would be funny as hell to go as a clansman (kKK) for halloween.

[SimsLover50]

Are nurses offended by the sexy nurse costume? Nope. Am I mad when you dress like the swiss miss or fat bastard, nope. (I'm half Scottish, half Swiss).

Some costumes are meant to be rude: ie the pregnant nun with the baby, but still kinda funny. But, halloween is poking fun at things that might scare, annoy and frighten us (political masks). Or being something glamours beautiful, brave or admirable. (Knights, superman, princess).

Wiccans actually have the most to be annoyed about. Witches are grotesque caricatures, and I don't remember seeing them upset. And Geisha is an occupation, not a culture.

I think if I were upset about the costumes, I'd probably use the opportunity to educate people on the proper way to wear a traditional outfit.

[Robodl95]

Are nurses offended by the sexy nurse costume?
Actually they are...

[coltraz]

Actually they are...

where's your source? Was the survey conducted at Uptight Asshole Hospital? Lol

[ElementMK]

I believe this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cycXuYzmzNg) is relevant to the discussion.

[Robodl95]

where's your source? Was the survey conducted at Uptight Asshole Hospital? Lol
I hear stuff from nurses my family knows every Halloween. I think it's understandable, Nurses, more than any other profession, have a lot things associated with them. Maybe this (http://nursinglink.monster.com/benefits/articles/89-10-nurse-depictions-we-wish-would-go-away?print=true) will make you understand their frustration?

[simbalena]

I was thinking about this topic recently because the theme of our work christmas party is "International". Most culturally stereotypical costumes are not racist, but even if no offence was intended they could be classified as culturally insensitive if people from those cultures are offended.

Some guys got beaten up in my city last year because they had been to an Arabian nights party and then went out afterwards, a group of middle eastern guys thought they were being racist and beat them up. So you do need to be careful.

[SimsLover50]

Interesting. Well, I haven't personally heard of any nurses being offended, but I am sure there are a few. I retract my statement.

Personally, professions to me are fair game. There are sexy nurses, doctors, firefighters, maids, soldiers, rockstars etc. While I can sympahthize with folks being offended, I think there is a point where people are a bit too hypersensative. The sexy nurse is a trope, like french maid, and yeah, its a bit sexist but, well, part of halloween is fantasy and fantasies are politically incorrect.

Ethnic costumes tread a bit more closely to the bone, I think.

[5M0K3]

The people dressing up like sexy nurses aren't doing it to make nurses mad. The people dressing up like terrorists are not trying to make terrorists mad. The people dressing up like geishas aren't trying to make geishas mad. The people dressing up like nuns with babies aren't trying to make nuns with babies mad. See where I'm going with this?

Halloween is *originally* a day to respect the dead, where the "curtain" between the living and dead wears thin. However, commercially, Halloween is a day for candy, and costumes. Whether those costumes are scary, offensive, sexy, or all three, they mean no harm. I don't think people should take offense to ethnic costumes, because really, it's all a joke. (I've seen a black man dressed as KKK - I could see his hands and around his eyes, and he was puuurdy black- ) However I can understand people getting a little upset about having stereotypical costumes, but to the point when they get quote unquote "offended"...? That's just childish. There's no reason to get butthurt over a costume.

[anothereyjana]

I can also see their point, but, at the same time, feel that they might be over-sensitive to some of the costumes. As others have mentioned, Geisha is a profession, so it doesn't seem to quite fit in with the costumes they're protesting against.
I'm white and live in a mid-western town where the population tends to be working class, but I'm not offended by costumes like this:
http://www.costumeshopper.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/60672a.jpg
this:
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b283/kissmybasset/Adamsredneckhalloween2.jpg
or even this:
http://coolest-homemade-costumes.shippony.com/images/stereotypes/rednecks/redneck-costume-01.jpg

I guess maybe in the end it depends on the person; it's sort of hard to gauge this stuff at times.

Also, even though it doesn't add anything to the discussion and is slightly off-topic, I wanted to share this last pic because it came up in the Google image results for some reason, and because it is awesome.
http://smilingmom.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/hallow.jpg
:D :cool:

[5M0K3]

Maybe I should uhm, back up my thing on the black KKK...
http://www.mintmagazine.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/black_kkk1253036271.gif
If you know me you know this is mandatory.

[VerDeTerre]

It can be a little murky to discuss. I totally get the sentiment of "we are a culture, not a costume", and also get the enjoyment and learning that comes from imitating a cultural costume. Some costumes are too...what are the words I'm seeking? Cheap? Stereotypic? Irreverent? I would think, that if done right, it should be seen as "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery".

[simbalena]

The people dressing up like terrorists are trying to make terrorists mad.

Is that a typo or do you really think that people dressing up like terrorists are trying to make terrorists mad?

[DrowningFishy]

Is that a typo or do you really think that people dressing up like terrorists are trying to make terrorists mad?

Dressing up as a sexy terrorist would defently make them mad... ... That sounds wrong.

Anyway you look at it people are just putting to much thought in to what is supposed to be a fun mindless holiday.

[5M0K3]

Is that a typo or do you really think that people dressing up like terrorists are trying to make terrorists mad?
Oh my god, thank you! I never would've realized that... Yeah, it was a typo.

[smorbie1]

I think we have gone waaaaay too far with sensitivity in this world. I used to have a colleague who would ask "Since when do you have a right NOT to be offended?" It sounds mean considering the context of the classes we taught together (HIV and STD prevention). But when you think about it, he's right. Since we all have a right to our beliefs and opinions, we have 0% chance of not been offended by something in this lifetime.

Consider this. I am a 50 something, heavy set, Catholic Christian, southern woman. I am also white and a mental-health patient. Do you see anything there that could be made fun of? Face it, everyone who looks at me could think of something hurtful or racist to say.

You can find racism if you look for it. You can find ANYTHING negative in any situation. For example, I find it interesting that Halloween has grown in popularity with costumes and decorations and such, as Christmas has become increasingly under fire, at least in America. However, that doesn't mean that I view Halloween as inherently anti-Christian.

You can ruin your life putting everything under a microscope to look for racism or sexism or any ism. I choose not to do that.

[5M0K3]

Both Halloween AND Christmas are practically commercial holidays, so religions DEFINITELY shouldn't be offended. (I'm Atheist and celebrate Christmas, my Christian friends celebrate Halloween) so that shouldn't be an issue.

[Robodl95]

I never viewed Halloween as anti-Christian, the Halloween that America participates in is so commercialized that there's hardly any connection to the original pagan holiday. Even though I'm Christian I don't think it's wrong for an Atheist to celebrate Christmas since the "commercial" version of the holiday isn't very religious. It's simply a great time of year to spend with your loved ones and show people that you appreciate them.

[Lavaster]

I'm Mexican and the sombrero/poncho (TACOS instead of candy!!!) seems HILARIOUS! As for costumes like KKK, that's horrible.

[SimsLover50]

My mother and sister are devout Christians and we've always celebrated halloween. Many of the holidays Christians celebrate were pre-empted pagan holidays., anyway. Halloween to me is a celebration of the fall, and a good way for kids to have some fun.

I do however know Christans who do not celebrate and consider it evil. I also know one parent who wouldn't let their son celebrate Christmas, because Santa re-arranged spelled Satan. :eye roll:

I grew up in the 80's during the Satanic panic where Evangelicals were looking for evil and devil everywhere. Personally that kind of superstitious thinking is one of the reasons I avoid some religious folk.

[5M0K3]

I'm Mexican and the sombrero/poncho (TACOS instead of candy!!!) seems HILARIOUS! As for costumes like KKK, that's horrible.

But it's the *BLACK* KKK.

[whiterider]

Halloween is racist? You should see what they do around here in early December...
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_6zrx7aljaOs/TRIpLh_oo9I/AAAAAAAAAJU/CJ10HeYhFqE/s1600/sinterklaas.jpg
Yes, that's right, two white boys painted up to be (white) Santa's negro choirboys. Some things make even Prince Harry look rational and conservative.

At least they toss delicious pepernoten at passers-by.

(Note that I use the word "negro" for effect, because it comes with aaall sorts of connotations, which are appropriate and in fact necessary here to appreciate just how wtf this tradition is, which the word "black" (or whatever else) does not come with; I'm not just being thoughtlessly offensive.)

[5M0K3]

You think THAT'S racist?
http://youoffendmeyouoffendmyfamily.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/chinese-disguise-chinese-racist-glasses-pee-pee-pee-peepee-c-demotivational-poster-1221502754-400x355.jpg
Sorry, I always have to one up people.

[whiterider]

You're right, that is racist - it can only be used by white people!

[pirate_wolf_12]

Hmm. Anyone seen the SomethingAwful parodies (http://www.somethingawful.com/d/photoshop-phriday/culture-not-costume.php)?

http://i.somethingawful.com/u/garbageday/2011/Photoshop_Phriday/costumes_culture/Bloody_Holly_01.jpg

http://i.somethingawful.com/u/garbageday/2011/Photoshop_Phriday/costumes_culture/HandsomeMrFooFoo_01.jpg

http://i.somethingawful.com/u/garbageday/2011/Photoshop_Phriday/costumes_culture/Haddas_01.jpg

Perhaps I'm just an awful, insensitive, monster but I don't see what's so offensive. Besides, without stereotypical costumes, what will the drunken fratboy do for Halloween? Or that awkward guy at the office who you never see again after the office Halloween party? Personally, I think some people are just looking for something to be offended by.

[VerDeTerre]

Whiterider, are you in England? Because of the history of minstrel shows and "black face", a costume like you posted would be seen as seriously racist in the states. If any American thinks otherwise, then they are ignorant of the history and could be unintentionally offending others who are. Because of this history, most American Border Morris dancers won't blacken their faces, but will use colorful painted designs or nothing instead.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackface

http://smad.us/morris/hicks.shtml

[VerDeTerre]

I'm afraid it's a little like bullying; you can't tell others what to feel. If someone is offended, telling them they are "too sensitive" or "to get over it" is not the least bit helpful. Maybe a dialog would be helpful.

[Robodl95]

I don't think that dressing up automatically makes you racist but the thing is that it's not always a joke, there are still many racist, hateful people in the world. It's one thing for a guy to dress as the KKK and it's another thing for a guy to dress as the KKK and talk crap about black people.

[5M0K3]

^ Exactly.

[SuicidiaParasidia]

Whiterider, are you in England? Because of the history of minstrel shows and "black face", a costume like you posted would be seen as seriously racist in the states. If any American thinks otherwise, then they are ignorant of the history and could be unintentionally offending others who are. Because of this history, most American Border Morris dancers won't blacken their faces, but will use colorful painted designs or nothing instead.

I'm afraid it's a little like bullying; you can't tell others what to feel. If someone is offended, telling them they are "too sensitive" or "to get over it" is not the least bit helpful. Maybe a dialog would be helpful.

...........wat.

[simbalena]

Whiterider, are you in England? Because of the history of minstrel shows and "black face", a costume like you posted would be seen as seriously racist in the states.

I'm guessing thosee costumes would also be seen as racist in England. Whiterider must be in the Netherlands or Belgium.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zwarte_Piet

[Nissun]

Ok, couple of things. Here in Spain, we have a similar issue. Our "Santa" traditionally are the three Wise Kings: Melchor, Gaspar and Baltasar. Baltasar is the black one. And up until recently, there weren't many black people in here, so the only way of playing him most times was with a white guy, painted black. But the intention is not to mock, or discriminate or anything. It's just that there weren't many black men around to hire.

Not to say that my country isn't extremelly ratially insensitive. Because it is. Mostly out of ignorance, and the fact that minorities are very very small in numbers.

So when the Spanish basketball team did this (http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008/aug/11/olympicsbasketball.olympics20081) , they were doing it because they didn't think that gesture could offend. They didn't do it with bad intentions, they just didn't know.

So yeah. Ignorance and lack of a strong voice for minorities are the main problems here.


Second, about the nurses. I'm not saying that a woman dressed in a sexy nurse costume for halloween is offensive. Hell, there are sexy costume versions of ANYTHING (http://www.cracked.com/article_18834_26-sexy-halloween-costumes-that-shouldnt-exist.html) nowadays. The problem isn't there, the problem is in the collective mind and public perception of nurses.

My sister is a nurse. She takes care of old people in a residence. It's not a pretty job, the patients die way too often, and I don't understand where she gets the strenght to deal with it (I'm terrified of death, and not too fond of hospitals either)

So, whenever someone asks what she does for a living, and upon hearing the answer they picture her in spicy clothes, eagerly "pleasing" her patients, I think it's fair that she gets somewhat pissed off. She's not a stripper. She isn't a decorative pretty thing to roam the hospital halls, lightening the days of male patients just with her presence.

Look, I'm not saying sexist jokes are bad. The problem is when people find they funny because they believe them.

Just my thoughts. I'm no activist or anything and don't pretend to derail the thread, so here are a few pictures of guinea pigs in costumes:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v437/Viki/Random/B2ojRzJ4m7rjhra1Nbq0WRZx_500.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v437/Viki/Random/tumblr_lb5vr96kmt1qzis54o1_500.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v437/Viki/Random/cute-hamster-sombrero-400x400.jpg

Haha, look at that tiny sombrero! A cultural stereotype has never looked so cute!

[simbalena]

That first blue costume is way too sexy for a guinea pig to be wearing it. :heyhey:

[smorbie1]

The one with the sombrero is the cutest costume I've seen yet. And that includes my tiny English bulldog grandpuppy dressed up like a chicken.

[5M0K3]

That first blue costume is way too sexy for a guinea pig to be wearing it. :heyhey:

No the Pikachu (er something like that) was most definitely the sexiest!

[kristie91]

Personally I think they were all sexy.. lol..
I don't know if I have the right to tell people to get over it.. but to me some of this stuff is just people being oversensitive. I think someone said that Halloween is suppose to be fun and it is so saying that this is not a costume and is a culture is silly to me. I mean what if I'm wearing this costume because I happen to like the culture.

[5M0K3]

Personally I think they were all sexy.. lol..
I don't know if I have the right to tell people to get over it.. but to me some of this stuff is just people being oversensitive. I think someone said that Halloween is suppose to be fun and it is so saying that this is not a costume and is a culture is silly to me. I mean what if I'm wearing this costume because I happen to like the culture.

Who cares if you have the "right"... I may just sound like an ignorant bitch, but you're granted freedom of speech (at least where I'm from) and if that means complaining about someone being racist, so be it. If that means complaining about someone complaining about someone being racist, so be it.

[maxon]

Whiterider, are you in England?
No, I think this is a European thing - Netherlands/Belgium - that's Black Peter, I think, Zwarte Piet. I'm not saying it's a good thing, just where it's found.

[Lawli-Lawli]

.....here we go with this crap.


Why can't everyone just get some candy, get laid or get out of your mind wasted :beer: instead of complaining about senseless stuff like this?


People really need to find other things to do with their time(like listed above).

[VerDeTerre]

No, I think this is a European thing - Netherlands/Belgium - that's Black Peter, I think, Zwarte Piet. I'm not saying it's a good thing, just where it's found.

Nice! Thanks for the tip - I love this kind of stuff. I'll have to look into that :)

[5M0K3]

I'm confused... Is VerDeTerre for blackface or against it?

[Black_Barook!]

I think I understand where the whole 'It's racist' thing is coming from. The impression of Halloween that I get is to dress up as fairy-tale monsters, creatures or people that do not exist. By dressing up as other ethnicities it kind of sends the message that those people are not real, or that their culture is has no authentic value.

Granted I don't come from a region where Halloween is celebrated.

[Johnny_Bravo]

Netherlands/Belgium, we have Sinterklaas en the Zwarte piet, just as Whiterider showed. They have delicious candy (pepernoten) indeed :lol:
But I think it's kinda racist for the black people since Zwarte piet is some kind of, well not slave but ''helper''. I still think it's a bit offensive, though.

[VerDeTerre]

I'm confused... Is VerDeTerre for blackface or against it? VerDeTerre is explaining how blackface is viewed and giving a link to an article that explains what it is. VerDeTerre is neither for/nor against blackface, but understands that historically it was used in a way that is derogatory to persons of color. It is because of that historical use, that American Border Morris teams do not typically use blackface, but will paint their faces in colorful patterns instead.

Print is hard to interpret, 5MOK3. Probably if we were speaking in person, you would have understood my intent immediately.