Mirroring a shoe mesh

[Simlicious]

hi,

I recently meshed flat shoes for young adult/ adult female sims and now want to convert the mesh for adult males. I sat there three days straight working on it and still have problems with the mesh.

Note: I use Milkshape for meshing and TSR Workshop for the project.

I ended up frankensteining the male nude feet onto my mesh because I couldn't get the legs/feet to match with my (rather poor) meshing skills and then I did all morphs by hand, which was a pain by itself (I used the verex and normal data merge tools and copied the vertices/normals from the nude foot onto my mesh).

Then there were gaps between the frankensteined mesh part and the shoe mesh part that I didn't notice until ingame testing. I tried to close the gaps with snapping vertices together and welding them afterwards (maybe the welding wasn't the smartest idea). The right foot looked quite well ingame while the left foot had major flaws.

I then tried to mirror the right foot, reversed the vertices on that foot and copied all the bones with Wes's bone tool from the wonky left foot to the newly mirrored left foot.

But now the mesh is weirdly shiny/black and the newly mirrored foot is twisted ingame in an unnatural position.
Maybe there was something wrong with the bone assignments after all, though I meticulously copied them from the existing left foot.

I also read that the problem with the shiny/black mesh might be because of a smoothing group problem, actually I didn't even know about smoothing groups before, they are never mentioned in any meshing/ clothing tutorials :|
Note: I know that the auto smooth option needs to be unticked, I did that before I started the project.

I tried to assign new smoothing groups but I think the mesh at this point is probably so messed up that I have to redo it anyways /start new. And since I don't really know anything about smoothing groups I want to know what I need to do in order to avoid further problems.

Can someone help me with this, maybe guiding me from the process of mirroring to the final foot?
Are my steps correct or did I forget something majorly important?
Do I have to mess with the UV map as well? I read somewhere that you shouldn't touch the uv map of nude meshes and leave them as-is.

And do I need to take special care about something when frankensteining? Should I only snap vertices together instead of also welding them?

Okay, so many questions... I hope somebody has some answers for me :help:


Thanks for bearing with me ;)

[BloomsBase]

The best way to do this:

-Start with the male nude foot(base mesh and morphs in Milkshape)
-Duplicate the base mesh and rename the duplicate to reference.
-Hide this reference mesh and all the morphs
-Start working on the base mesh and create your shoe out of it(do not delete any faces/vertices)
Do not touch the row of vertice were the ankle meets the calve!
-When satisfied you choose morphmangle from the menu http://www.modthesims.info/wiki.php?title=Tutorial:Morphs%20Made%20Easy
-This tool will convert all morphs into the same shape as your base mesh.
-Export your file.

To fix the mesh your working on is a bit harder.
You can duplicate one foot and mirror it but you do need to update the uvmap then
I can explain all the steps you need to make or you upload the file and ill fix it(if i can :) )

Welding is something only more experienced creators do cos it can really mess things up.
It can screw up your uvmap as the uvcoordinates also get welded too while they should be split on the spots were parts are mapped seperate(d) from eachother.
You can however always fix such a mesh using the model cleaner(click no on both popups, ok on the last one)

Fixing a duplicated and mirrored part is more work to explain, maybe a tutorial should be in place.

[Simlicious]

thanks for the quick answer!

I just tested out the model cleaner, the tool split my entire mesh into hundreds of pieces *lol*


So I think I should start the conversion process anew. I don't want to mesh the whole shoe from scratch because I will never get it exactly the way the female mesh is (even if this is easier and I could use Morph Mangle with it, I did that with the female mesh), that is why I wanted to convert it in the first place.

I understand that the process of a conversion, including frankensteining the legs, is a lot more work but I'm determined and willing to do this :)

I really want to learn how everything works so I'd much appreciate it if you could explain the steps for mirroring the mesh and fixing the uvmap in more detail. Giving you the file to fix it sounds tempting but I want to learn how to do it myself for future meshes ;)

Oh, and a tutorial for smoothing groups would be awesome! I guess a lot of meshers would appreciate this.

Thanks for your help!

[BloomsBase]

I just tested out the model cleaner, the tool split my entire mesh into hundreds of pieces *lol*

That is because you clicked yes on one of the popups, click no on all.

Here is a shoe tutorial that i used years ago to learn the uvmapping:
http://www.modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=145153
Ill try to write a tutorial how to duplicate and mirror so you can use it in sims 3.


I am afraid i don't know much about smoothing groups, Cmar might tell you some info on it.
I always use Demon's alligne normals:
http://www.modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=139859

[Simlicious]

That is because you clicked yes on one of the popups, click no on all.
Yes, you were right. I thought I clicked no, but I apparently didn't :wtf:
It worked now :)

Thanks for the uvmapping-tutorial link, that will be very helpful!

And I cannot tell you how much a tutorial on mirroring the mesh would mean to me. *grabs and kisses Bloom*


I am afraid i don't know much about smoothing groups, Cmar might tell you some info on it.
I always use Demon's alligne normals:
http://www.modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=139859
I also have Demon's align normals tool, I used it to make the soles of the shoe look entirely flat, maybe I need to play around with it some more for the rest of the mesh.

I already read a lot of your tutorials and your tips have always been very valuable and helpful to me :)
I will fiddle with my mesh some more and wait patiently for your tutorial.
Thank you!

And if someone else has some insight on smoothing groups I'd be very interested in hearing it ;)

[BloomsBase]

i don't understand smoothing groups very well so when fixing the normals i always:
-regroup each part in diffrent meshgroups like:
*sole
*side of the sole
*left side of the shoe
*right side of the shoe

Then i weld the vertice of each seperate part together and uvmap them.
When welding i have autosmooth on so the normals get fixed automaticly.
Then i turn autosmooth off and fix unwanted seams with Demon alligne normal tool.
Last i fix the boneassignements if necesarry.
When the shoe is created and uvmapped properly i export the file(WSO), this will be one side.(call it right side or something like that.)

For the duplicate and mirror part:
Now you mirror that same shoe to the other side.
You can do this with autosmooth on, when done turn autosmooth off and fix the seams with Demon tools.
Now we also have to mirror the uvcoordinates:
-save your file as Ms3d
-Open that file with LithUnwrap(http://www.gamefront.com/files/51766/lithunwrap_setup.zip)
-Model/open
-Draw a rectangle arround the coordinates
-choose Edit/flip/horizontal
-export your file as File/export/UV but change the format to LUV
-Close lithunwrap

You should all do this with Milkshape open.
Back in Milkshape you choose:
File/import/Lithunwrapper LUV and import your just exported file.
Ignore the popup
You now have a your coordinatyes mirrored

Last thing are the boneassignements:
With a shoe 3 or 4 bones are used, check wich ones.
If im correct:
Toe bone
Foot bone
Calf compress bone
Calve bone

Go to the joint tab and rename the joints were the shoe isn't assigned to, if it is the right shoe you used(or is assigned to) you rename the following joints:
b__L_Calf__Compress__ to b__L_Calf__Compress__OLD
b__L_Calf__ to b__L_Calf__OLD
b__L_Foot__ to b__L_Foot__OLD
b__L_Toe__ to b__L_Toe__OLD

You have to do this first in order to rename the joints you are going to assigne your mesh to, in this case the L(left side)
Rename:
b__R_Calf__Compress__OLD to b__L_Calf__Compress__
b__R_Calf__OLD to b__L_Calf__
b__R_Foot__OLD to b__L_Foot__
b__R_Toe__OLD to b__L_Toe__

Now export your file(WSO)
Start new and import your first created shoe, then import your mirrord shoe.
Regroup all the seperate meshparts of each shoe into one meshgroup, you end up with a left and right side shoe meshgroup.

Assigne a material to them and visit the uvmap.
Position the left and right side on a spot were you want to texture them, use my template.(http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/3065/template.jpg)
When satisfied you regroup them all into one meshgroup, base_group.
Check this file in TSRW/ingame if all went right.
When satisfied you can go back and duplicate that base mesh to create the morphs.

Thats about it. ::)

If you want to fix your existing mesh you can save the mirrord mesh as MS3d(with all the morphs) and flip their coordinates in LithUnwrap.
Then import it back in Milkshape(make sure the original isn't there when doing so.)

[Simlicious]

Thanks for the tutorial, I was able to follow along very well! So far everything worked out, except the part with renaming the bones, I'm slightly confused there.

I now have my mirrored mesh separately in milkshape, uvmap mirrored, everything is fine. It is the left foot. The mesh doesn't have any bones assigned to it (I think they got lost when mirroring).
The right foot had the bones you mentioned (Calf, Calf-Compress, Foot, Toe).

So I went back to my left foot and renamed the right foot bones to old, but I can't rename them to left now because it says there is already such a bone.

Also, even if I change the bone's names, there still is no bone assigned to the mesh in the first place.

Or do I have to do rename the bones of the right foot that still has the bone assignments? Not my mirrored mesh, but the one I mirrored from?

When I was working on my mesh before, I just imported my female shoe mesh and copied the bones from that left foot over to my new mesh's left foot with Wes' bone tool, that was a lot of work, though. I could also import a nude male foot and copy those assignments, but your method of changing the bone's names sounds quicker and easier.

[BloomsBase]

When you lost your boneassignements on your mirrored mesh you can no longer use the methode i described, you normally have to reassigne them from scratch ot start over with the right foot mesh.
Wat you could do is the following,
-Start new.
-Import the right foot mesh.
-import the unassigned left foot mesh.
-duplicate the right foot again and mirror it
-in the meshgroup tab put the duplicate on top of the list of meshgroups
-select both vertice of the duplicate and the unassigned left foot
-choose weld together from the menu
ofcourse you can not weld 2 diffrent meshgroups together but wat will happen is that when welding the boneassignements of the duplicate got transferred to your other mesh.
-delete the duplicate and and use the model cleaner again.
Both the right and left foot should now be assigned to right foot joints, check before you continue.
-Delete the the right foot(you should have a save of it already)
-Rename the left foot joints in order to rename the right foot joints to left foot
So rename all left foot joints to OLD then rename the right foot joints to:
b__R_Calf__Compress__ to b__L_Calf__Compress__
b__R_Calf__ to b__L_Calf__
b__R_Foot__ to b__L_Foot__
b__R_Toe__ to b__L_Toe__
-Export your file as left foot
-START NEW
-import the right foot and import the left foot.

Hope this makes sence