Alternative ways of making good Multipliers ?

[MarcusSims91]

Any other ways besides blender?I can never get my multiplier to look good using blender.I use paint.net and use a blur effect.But it never looks right.

[orangemittens]

Any other ways besides blender?I can never get my multiplier to look good using blender.I use paint.net and use a blur effect.But it never looks right.What is the problem with the Multipliers Blender is making and how are you going about making them?

[whiterider]

If you struggle with Blender's multis, you can always hand draw them - tools like bevel/emboss, drop shadow and so on can be used to great effect to make nice, professional-looking hand drawn multis without actually, y'know, drawing everything by hand.

[MarcusSims91]

Thanks, are those tools in Paint.net ?
What is the problem with the Multipliers Blender is making and how are you going about making them?

I go off of the tutorial posted here.How ever Im not sure if its because I dont UV map right or what but it never turns out right.
Im going to make an example on a couch Ive made and post screens.

[MarcusSims91]

Morphead tutorial.
http://thumbs2.modthesims2.com/img/7/1/3/2/5/6/2/MTS_MarcusSims91-1292379-1.jpg
http://thumbs2.modthesims2.com/img/7/1/3/2/5/6/2/MTS_MarcusSims91-1292380-2.jpg
http://thumbs2.modthesims2.com/img/7/1/3/2/5/6/2/MTS_MarcusSims91-1292381-3.jpg
http://thumbs2.modthesims2.com/img/7/1/3/2/5/6/2/MTS_MarcusSims91-1292382-4.jpg

Its actually came out better than before. I usually leave output as bmp but this time I changed it to DDS. However it still looks weird.
http://thumbs2.modthesims2.com/img/7/1/3/2/5/6/2/MTS_MarcusSims91-1292383-5.jpg

[orangemittens]

Morphead tutorial.
http://thumbs2.modthesims2.com/img/7/1/3/2/5/6/2/MTS_MarcusSims91-1292379-1.jpg
http://thumbs2.modthesims2.com/img/7/1/3/2/5/6/2/MTS_MarcusSims91-1292380-2.jpg
http://thumbs2.modthesims2.com/img/7/1/3/2/5/6/2/MTS_MarcusSims91-1292381-3.jpg
http://thumbs2.modthesims2.com/img/7/1/3/2/5/6/2/MTS_MarcusSims91-1292382-4.jpg

Its actually came out better than before. I usually leave output as bmp but this time I changed it to DDS. However it still looks weird.
http://thumbs2.modthesims2.com/img/7/1/3/2/5/6/2/MTS_MarcusSims91-1292383-5.jpgDo you have all the faces that require different depth of shadow mapped to different places on your map?

[MarcusSims91]

I think so.If im understanding correctly.So in order for this to work, the faces in my map has to be in the proper place?
Like for example the bottom of the sofa is at the top but it should be at the bottom on the map ?

btw love ur site

[BloomsBase]

no, she means that faces not overlap on the uvmap

[MarcusSims91]

Ohh okay well yea I dont think so.I made this sofa like 2 months ago.I just box mapped it and tiled and rescaled I think.
can I post the obj and someone show me step by step how you would map it and bake it ?

[orangemittens]

Ohh okay well yea I dont think so.I made this sofa like 2 months ago.I just box mapped it and tiled and rescaled I think.
can I post the obj and someone show me step by step how you would map it and bake it ?Sure. Everything at my site is baked in Blender...I think if you can get it working you'll be very happy with the results :)

[MarcusSims91]

Yea I really want to know how to do it with blender but I could never get it right.And with the set im working on now I will need to learn how to use it eventually.
heres the obj. http://www.mediafire.com/?fb7ihzo6c7j13fz

[orangemittens]

Yea I really want to know how to do it with blender but I could never get it right.And with the set im working on now I will need to learn how to use it eventually.
heres the obj. http://www.mediafire.com/?fb7ihzo6c7j13fzBlender baking works by having the tool look at your object and apply appropriate shadowing to the surfaces that it sees. This means that all the surfaces, aka faces, of the object that need a different level of shadowing need to be mapped onto a separate place on the map so that Blender can give them all different shading.

For example, the underside of a sofa cushion is going to have a very dark shadow because it isn't exposed to light at all. The top is going to have some shading where it hits the back of the sofa but, on the whole, is not gonna have much shadow at all.

If you place those two surfaces in the same place on your map Blender is going to become confused because you're giving it conflicting information. On the one hand you're telling it make this part of the map dark and on the other you're telling it make this part of the map light. Blender will then try to compromise to meet both directives...it will make part of the area light and part dark. The result is a splotchy multiplier.

I've looked at your object and you do not have the faces of this object separated out onto separate parts of the map. Also there is a normals issue going on which could affect Blender's ability to bake the object since those determine how light hits the object.

To begin fixing for the bake you need to first pull the object apart into separate faces and place them onto different areas of the map.

[MarcusSims91]

Yea the normals issues on the back and on the further right side of the sofa happened when I applied direct-x in milkshape3d.I figured with this object that would cause issues.So basically I need to split the front and the back?or in this case top and bottom haha.I will try it out now

edit this is what I got
http://thumbs2.modthesims2.com/img/7/1/3/2/5/6/2/MTS_MarcusSims91-1292425-7.jpg
http://thumbs2.modthesims2.com/img/7/1/3/2/5/6/2/MTS_MarcusSims91-1292426-8.jpg
http://thumbs2.modthesims2.com/img/7/1/3/2/5/6/2/MTS_MarcusSims91-1292428-9.jpg
Looks better,I can edit the rest but I believe i can better results right?

[orangemittens]

Yea the normals issues on the back and on the further right side of the sofa happened when I applied direct-x in milkshape3d.I figured with this object that would cause issues.So basically I need to split the front and the back?or in this case top and bottom haha.I will try it out now

edit this is what I got
http://thumbs2.modthesims2.com/img/7/1/3/2/5/6/2/MTS_MarcusSims91-1292425-7.jpg
http://thumbs2.modthesims2.com/img/7/1/3/2/5/6/2/MTS_MarcusSims91-1292426-8.jpg
http://thumbs2.modthesims2.com/img/7/1/3/2/5/6/2/MTS_MarcusSims91-1292428-9.jpg
Looks better,I can edit the rest but I believe i can better results right?You can get perfect results :) You just have to split all the faces onto separate parts of the map. Why are you running the object through MS if you use Blender to mesh with?

[MarcusSims91]

Can you show me an example of putting the faces onto separate parts of the map ?Because im missing something lol.I use MS3d and 3ds max to mesh.I just have blender to bake.I dont know how to use blender.
Actually the sofa was just an example it looks pretty good with out baked shadows in game.

[orangemittens]

Can you show me an example of putting the faces onto separate parts of the map ?Because im missing something lol.I use MS3d and 3ds max to mesh.I just have blender to bake.I dont know how to use blender.
Actually the sofa was just an example it looks pretty good with out baked shadows in game.This seating set that I made has all the faces pulled apart for the bake:

http://jaue.com/Indigo/?p=725

If you're unfamiliar with Blender prolly the easiest thing for you to do is get Cmo's Blender tools and use the EZ Bake. The tutorial I wrote on baking multipliers uses this method and it's very easy. Once the tools are installed making your multiplier is pretty much a matter of importing your mapped .obj, telling Blender what size your map is, and pressing the go button. That tutorial is in the tutorials section of this site.

[MarcusSims91]

I get an error when I use EZ bake.I have 1.63 version of blender.
http://thumbs2.modthesims2.com/img/7/1/3/2/5/6/2/MTS_MarcusSims91-1292617-err.jpg

[orangemittens]

I get an error when I use EZ bake.I have 1.63 version of blender.
http://thumbs2.modthesims2.com/img/7/1/3/2/5/6/2/MTS_MarcusSims91-1292617-err.jpgthat is a very outdated version of Blender. You'll need to update to a more recent version to use the tools. The link is in the download thread. :) The newer version of Blender is amazing...well worth updating even if you don't use it for S3.

If what you meant is that you're using 2.63 the tools are not yet updated for that. Try using 2.62.

[MarcusSims91]

Oh lol yea I meant 2.63 and I tried downloading 2.62 but it just goes to 2.63 http://www.blender.org/development/release-logs/blender-262/.

edit: Nevermind I found a link.

[misukisu]

This might be a dumb question at this point, but have you checked your face/vertex normals? If you have not mapped the parts on top of each other then something else must be shading the surfaces so that light cannot reach them - and that might be the surface itself. I was just thinking that maybe some surfaces or vertices/edges are turned inside the couch and not outside. You probably have those ok as you are able to get things in game properly, but those results just look like they could be caused by flipped normals.

[orangemittens]

This might be a dumb question at this point, but have you checked your face/vertex normals? If you have not mapped the parts on top of each other then something else must be shading the surfaces so that light cannot reach them - and that might be the surface itself. I was just thinking that maybe some surfaces or vertices/edges are turned inside the couch and not outside. You probably have those ok as you are able to get things in game properly, but those results just look like they could be caused by flipped normals.M we already went over that. The normals issue the object has was caused by the fact that direct-x was used on the object in Milkshape prior to the bake step. Once the object is mapped correctly it should be regrouped into a single group and then baked. Essentially you just make a version of the object specifically for baking.

[MarcusSims91]

Okay I took a break from this because I was busy.
Now I downloaded CMO tools for blender 2.6+ but only the Import and export options are showing I dont see EZ bake or the other options in the Sims 3 tool bar.After time to think I think I finally figured out what you mean by putting the faces into different part of the map
Do I have to regroup the faces that need different depth of shadow in Milkshape ?Because it would seem hard or almost impossible to separate those faces in UV mapper.
Il take another jab at it with a newer simpler sofa I just made.And post screens

Full sofa
http://thumbs2.modthesims2.com/img/7/1/3/2/5/6/2/MTS_MarcusSims91-1302312-noregroup.jpg

Separating and regrouping the faces.Thats not all the faces but the main parts
http://thumbs2.modthesims2.com/img/7/1/3/2/5/6/2/MTS_MarcusSims91-1302313-FacesExample.jpg
Also if this is the right way do I have to do this for ever cushion and both arm parts ?I see some Sims3 sofas only do this to one and I guess duplicate it.

[orangemittens]

Okay I took a break from this because I was busy.
Now I downloaded CMO tools for blender 2.6+ but only the Import and export options are showing I dont see EZ bake or the other options in the Sims 3 tool bar.After time to think I think I finally figured out what you mean by putting the faces into different part of the map
Do I have to regroup the faces that need different depth of shadow in Milkshape ?Because it would seem hard or almost impossible to separate those faces in UV mapper.
Il take another jab at it with a newer simpler sofa I just made.And post screens

Full sofa
http://thumbs2.modthesims2.com/img/7/1/3/2/5/6/2/MTS_MarcusSims91-1302312-noregroup.jpg

Separating and regrouping the faces.Thats not all the faces but the main parts
http://thumbs2.modthesims2.com/img/7/1/3/2/5/6/2/MTS_MarcusSims91-1302313-FacesExample.jpg
Also if this is the right way do I have to do this for ever cushion and both arm parts ?I see some Sims3 sofas only do this to one and I guess duplicate it.Are you now seeing the EZ Bake option in Blender? If not, which version of Blender and the tools do you have?

I find that MS is pretty easy to use to pull things apart into faces. If you decide to go with MS for this and are having trouble let me know and I'll post some pics showing how I do it.

For an example of mapping a sofa maybe take a look at this one that I did which was mapped using MS and then baked using Blender:

http://jaue.com/Indigo/?p=725

[MarcusSims91]

Never cmo explained it to me.
I tried to open that sofa in tsrw and it crashed.
And yes could you post some pic showing how you do it ?

[MarcusSims91]

Came out better but still bad
I didnt use EZ bake I did it the other way

[BloomsBase]

I always map everything by hand in Milkshape(im old fashion....)
Then bake in Blender.

[MarcusSims91]

Can I send you that sofa and you show me how you would map it?If its not too complex.The arm part is a little wonky because I put alot of modifiers on trying to get a cloth look then use pro optimizer to lower the vertices.I can change it.
It sucks knowing how to mesh but cant texture :( haha.

[BloomsBase]

i think i have seen the sofa before and to be honest i dont think you meshed it yourself, did you?
Anyway, you basicly regroup each angle in a diffrent meshgroup(front, back, left, right, top and bottom.) and then uvmap them.
You might have to split up each individual meshgroup again if parts overlap eachother on the map.

You should do this with your high polygon one and when done you optimize the facecount before regrouping them into one.(you do need to weld the groups before optimizing to avoid gaps)
That way you keep the seams at the correct spot and makes it much easier to alligne the normals afterwards.

[MarcusSims91]

yea its a Le Corbusier Sofa I made it in 3ds max, im making the whole set love seat etc for my next house.Its only chamferboxes and cylinders lol.The other sofa I didnt make 100% I got the cushion part from another 3d model.
Thats basically what I did,instead of putting each angle in 1 meshgroup I put each angle from all the parts in their own meshgroup so that they dont overlap in the map or it would be easier to separate them in the map.After looking at it I think I split them wrong.Im remaking the arm parts because they were hard to split.Its not very high poly so do I still need to optimize the facecount ?

[orangemittens]

I tried to open that sofa in tsrw and it crashed...

yea its a Le Corbusier Sofa I made it in 3ds max, im making the whole set love seat etc for my next house.Its only chamferboxes and cylinders lol.The other sofa I didnt make 100% I got the cushion part from another 3d model.
Thats basically what I did,instead of putting each angle in 1 meshgroup I put each angle from all the parts in their own meshgroup so that they dont overlap in the map or it would be easier to separate them in the map.After looking at it I think I split them wrong.Im remaking the arm parts because they were hard to split.Its not very high poly so do I still need to optimize the facecount ?It isn't surprising to me that tsrw crashed...that's a common complaint with that tool even when trying to open an object that works in game just fine. You might have better luck using s3pe which is far more reliable :)

To split things in MS you can select faces and regroup. Once you have them all split then map them in separate places and regroup them back into one before baking. Remember, what you're trying to accomplish is having things which require different levels of shadow in different places on the map. Parts that will have the same level of shadow can be in the same place. Parts that don't show can all share the same place on the map and occupy a very small place on the map.

[MarcusSims91]

Yea I remember I used s3pe too but the map of you chair didnt show in uv mapper.
Also I split them in MS but im not sure if I placed the on the map right.Heres the obj http://www.mediafire.com/?22cyi8fcgcb4mgj
I just remade the sofa so that itl be easier to split.Thats what im doing now in MS.

[orangemittens]

Yea I remember I used s3pe too but the map of you chair didnt show in uv mapper.
Also I split them in MS but im not sure if I placed the on the map right.Heres the obj http://www.mediafire.com/?22cyi8fcgcb4mgj
I just remade the sofa so that itl be easier to split.Thats what im doing now in MS.Look at the map in MS so you can see how to do yours in MS. I posted it as an example of how to do that correctly...I don't use UV Mapper and see no reason to tbh...I use MS and it works just fine.

[orangemittens]

Look at the map in MS so you can see how to do yours in MS. I posted it as an example of how to do that correctly...I don't use UV Mapper and see no reason to tbh...I use MS and it works just fine.Also, I tried that link and it tried to give me a virus...I cannot download your .obj and that is not a safe link.

[MarcusSims91]

Alright.I dont know how to map using MS so I guess thats why im so confused.Even after seeing how you did it.
A virus ? Thats weird try this
maybe your computer read the obj as virus.Or do you mean mediafire tried to give you a virus ?

[BloomsBase]

TSRW never crashes......i throws up a a error but i never seen it crash.
After ignoring it you can load your object just fine.(unless its not build properly)
TSRW always throws up a error on files cloned with s3OC because both use a diffrent setup for the STBL files, just ignore it and continue.
It will generate new STBL's.

[orangemittens]

Alright.I dont know how to map using MS so I guess thats why im so confused.Even after seeing how you did it.
A virus ? Thats weird try this
maybe your computer read the obj as virus.Or do you mean mediafire tried to give you a virus ?Mediafire tried to give me a virus and it isn't the first time I've had that happen trying to download links people have posted there. I wrote a start to finish object making tutorial that includes a section showing how to map with Milkshape. That step is here:

http://www.den.simlogical.com/denforum/index.php?topic=821.0

Mapping with MS is actually very easy and straightforward.

[MarcusSims91]

Thanks OM il check it out.
TSRW never crashes......i throws up a a error but i never seen it crash.
After ignoring it you can load your object just fine.(unless its not build properly)
TSRW always throws up a error on files cloned with s3OC because both use a diffrent setup for the STBL files, just ignore it and continue.
It will generate new STBL's.
Yea in the previous version of tsrw I would always ignore but eventually it just stopped opening and I had to reinstall so now when a error comes up I close it because I dont want to mess anything up.

[MarcusSims91]

Im having a bit of trouble translating that tutorial to my sofa.
In that link that was the wrong sofa.I just wanted someone to check out how it was mapped.I split all of the faces.
Edit:I just made a simple box and baked it.I think my problem with the sofa was I split the faces wrong.
Also OM when I click image in Blender to save the Multiplier I dont see the DDS option at the top.

[MarcusSims91]

Edit here are the final results.I can edit the rest.And I will remap it http://thumbs2.modthesims2.com/img/7/1/3/2/5/6/2/MTS_MarcusSims91-1303716-result.jpg
How ever the multiplier is very pixelated.I think its because I save the image as BMP in blender and convert to dds in Paint.net.I downloaded all of cmo blender tools and placed them in the right folders.( i hope)
http://thumbs2.modthesims2.com/img/7/1/3/2/5/6/2/MTS_MarcusSims91-1303717-pixelated.jpg

[orangemittens]

Cmo made an addon that will allow you to save your mulitplier as a .dds in Blender. If you install that it should improve the quality of your saved image. It's here:

http://www.modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=458513

It will work for Blender 2.61 and up.

[BloomsBase]

your tiling is way to high, wat is your texture size?

[MarcusSims91]

Yea I know thats why I said I will remap everything because I didnt use all of the map.But I was just trying to see if that was causing the multiplier to be blurry.
Its 512x1024 is that right size ?I think the chair is about 3 tiles wide.Havent put it in the game yet.

[BloomsBase]

512x512 is a 2x2 tiling, you can check for yourself how patterns will look on it.
There are a few tricks to have a larger tiling with a small texture, maybe will write a tut about it
but if its a large sofa then switch to a 1024x102

[MarcusSims91]

Thanks,do you mean 1024x128 ?I cant put 102 in EZ bake,Or does that even matter ?

[BloomsBase]

no, 1024x1024 srry :)

[MarcusSims91]

Oh haha i thought you found a secret trick or something.Thanks and the more texture tutorials the better.

[BloomsBase]

The trick is if you have meshparts were the height is much bigger then the width you can uvmap those outside the uvmap.
Have a look at the meshes of the 3x1 window.
I have to warn you that tsrw will not accept uvcoordinates outside the map.
Here is a tut that explains it how to do it with tsrw: http://www.modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=478963

[MarcusSims91]

Thanks il check that out.
I managed to get the multiplier look alright.
However I have 2 problems
1.the multiplier is still blurry.My textures arent.In Blender I export the DDS in DXT1 No alpha
http://thumbs2.modthesims2.com/img/7/1/3/2/5/6/2/MTS_MarcusSims91-1304242-Screenshot.jpg

2.I tried to make a specular so that only the shiny materials would be shiny.
http://thumbs2.modthesims2.com/img/7/1/3/2/5/6/2/MTS_MarcusSims91-1304243-Screenshot-2.jpg
Im not sure how the final map is suppose to look.I just looked at the specular in photoshop and my alpha was white so I think thats what caused the shine.
Is this how its suppose to look ?
http://thumbs2.modthesims2.com/img/7/1/3/2/5/6/2/MTS_MarcusSims91-1304244-Untitled.jpg

[BloomsBase]

it depends a little, there are 2 specular formats, dxt5interpolatedalpha and dxt1noalpha.
Follow the setup of the original is my advice.