Is Sim Surgery using SimPE safe?

[Dizzy-noodles]

Hiya :)

Just discovered that some of my kids are going to turn out horrendous! lol!

So is Sim Surgery using SimPE safe to use?

And can I do it on a kid now to make them grow up to look like a particular adult, or do I have to wait until they are an adult too?

And is there anything important I should know?

I've been googling it and reading some tutorials, but I don't think they're safe to follow as one person recommended deleting sims!

Thanks :)

[M.M.A.A.]

May I ask: How "horrendous"? (Hint: Asks for a pic)

[VerDeTerre]

I've just started using it and so far like it very much. I've not heard one thing against using it and believe it is quite safe to use. The only thing I would caution you, however, is to stick with same age, gender and species for patient and prototype. It gets weird otherwise.

[gazania]

I've used it several times, with no problem. And yes, I found it can get weird if you mix ages. :) Not recommended.

[Dizzy-noodles]

May I ask: How "horrendous"? (Hint: Asks for a pic)

Here you go!

After sleeping on it, Jacqueline's not too bad, but she does have that 'Temp family' face that I don't like! Here are 2 of her siblings so you can see what I mean. (She was bred in game-I don't know what I was thinking when I made her parents, but they were some of my first ever sims)

Grab a cushion to hide behind before you look at adult Devon! :blink: And I thought I'd made such a cute toddler! (I made him in CAS-yeah should have checked first! lol)

[Dizzy-noodles]

Thankyou everyone for the replies! I might get brave and try it!

[maxon]

Simsurgery is perfectly safe ('Yes' apparently falls foul of the 7-character minimum limit on posts) though it works best if you surgery with patient and donor being the same age. You can always prepare your better-looking adults as adults then age them down in Bodyshop to toddlers before you do the surgery. Are you using the version of SimSurgery supplied with SimPE or the more flexible version that allows you to surergy from Bodyshop?

[Dizzy-noodles]

Thanks for answering. I've just had a go and I'm quite pleased with the results! I just made 2 new children and their dad and used them for surgery. I did it like you've suggested, making nice adults and aging them down. I needed more men in my hood anyway as most of mine are gay and my poor ladies are lonely :(

I used the SimSurgery supplied with SimPE. I didn't know you could do it with Bodyshop! Is that way better?

[Peni Griffin]

Wouldn't it've been simpler to get rid of the eyeliner? Not a damn thing wrong with those faces. Devon's the only one that'd even take getting used to.

[moonlight_frog]

It's a good thing everything turned out for the best, Dizzy-noodles. SimPE always crashed for me. :(

[gazania]

I have to disagree with Peni on a couple of them. But then again, there is something to say about faces that have "character". A couple aren't that bad, IMO, though. Maybe a bit boring, but some snazzy hair and makeup can fix that. Enough celebs do that in real life every day!

Do you have any default facial template replacements in your game? Sometimes, that helps with some of the ... errrr ... more "distinct" faces. But not always. Sometimes I think I could star in a fictional TV sitcom called "Gaz ... Pleasantview Plastic Surgeon".

Glad it worked out. Perhaps we can co-star in a TV pilot ... "Gaz and Dizzy N ... Simville Plastic Surgeons".

BTW, for those who are timid ... the Sim Blender offers you a plastic surgery option as well. That applies only to the Sim, of course ... he or she won't pass down the features to younger Sims. Someone please refresh my memory ... does Sim PE pass down the features?

[VerDeTerre]

In answer to your question about Simpe passing down features, gazania, I guess it didn't for a long time, but it does now. It does in my game, at any rate, so I don't see why it wouldn't in someone else's game. My custom eyes and skin have been genetically passed along as well as the features that I picked out for my prototypes.

[sushigal007]

I used the SimSurgery supplied with SimPE. I didn't know you could do it with Bodyshop! Is that way better?

I believe Maxon may be talking about Theo's Alternate Sim Surgery. (http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/smf/index.php?topic=3563.0) It's not exactly changing them in Bodyshop, it's making new template sims in Bodyshop and then using SimPE to copy their appearance. Personally I think it's miles better than the regular Sim Surgery because you don't need to make any playable sims in the game, which is tedious and leaves duplicate sims lying around, which people are prone to deleting, thus destroying their hoods, because EAxis are stupid and allowed that to happen.

[VerDeTerre]

I believe Maxon may be talking about Theo's Alternate Sim Surgery. (http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/smf/index.php?topic=3563.0) It's not exactly changing them in Bodyshop, it's making new template sims in Bodyshop and then using SimPE to copy their appearance. Personally I think it's miles better than the regular Sim Surgery because you don't need to make any playable sims in the game, which is tedious and leaves duplicate sims lying around, which people are prone to deleting, thus destroying their hoods, because EAxis are stupid and allowed that to happen.

Thanks for the link. That does sound like it has a distinct advantage to use - so much better than having multiple copies of the same Sim. Is it then genetic?

[sushigal007]

Honestly, no idea, sorry.

[Neder]

I use alt_sim surgery a lot to "fix" some of my more unfortunate genetic combinations.
I use the "export" feature from Sim Surgery to copy Sims from my neighborhood into the Sim Bin (give them unique names other than their character file names).
I then create Sims using these Sim Bin templates in my "Test" neighborhood (not my "real" hood). In CAS, I can then breed these Sims to get a child that doesn't look like a monster and yes- the genetics of the parents carry through intact.
I save the family in the test hood, then extract the children using Sim Surgery (once again, they end up in the Sim BIn). Then, I can overwrite the appearance in alt-sim surgery with the genetics intact.
The only thing that doesn't carry over, is the dominant physical traits (nose, jaw, etc). I usually do a screenshot of the Sim's DNA before I do the surgical overwrite and then I can make sure the DNA doesn't get changed too much.
SO to answer your question, VerDeTerre, yes, it is genetic, but you have to enter features (not hair, skin, eyes) manually.

[VerDeTerre]

Ah, I see. That part of the genetic changes, going into the DNA for features, has always seemed very mysterious to me, but I might like to give it a try sometime. Currently, with the Simpe that I use, I don't have to do that and the DNA of the features selected from the clone carry forth. But I really like the idea of doing it all in Body Shop. Thanks for the explanation, Neder.

[Neder]

Just to clarify, both types of Sim Surgery in SimPE do affect sims genetically.
It's just that dominant features don't get transferred into the DNA.
The sim will still have those features (like if a family has a unique, off-template nose), but they won't be flagged as "dominant" so there's less chance of them being passed on unless you put them back in the DNA.
I actually have a handy pic that I posted on another forum that might help:
Dominat features labelled in blue at the bottom (http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/9274/genmv.jpg).

[M.M.A.A.]

Here you go!

After sleeping on it, Jacqueline's not too bad, but she does have that 'Temp family' face that I don't like! Here are 2 of her siblings so you can see what I mean. (She was bred in game-I don't know what I was thinking when I made her parents, but they were some of my first ever sims)

Grab a cushion to hide behind before you look at adult Devon! :blink: And I thought I'd made such a cute toddler! (I made him in CAS-yeah should have checked first! lol)

Yeah the girl is fine, but the boy's appearance can be fixed if you use an appropriate hairstyle or... Oh just forget it! I can't stand his face! *Grabs a pillow and hides face*

[simsample]

Is Sim Surgery using SimPE safe?

Anything is safe as long as you backup your files first!
Game Help:Back Ups

[AlexandraSpears]

I've used it to make pre-made teen/child Sims actually LOOK like their parents.

[Dizzy-noodles]

Hello everyone!

Peni Griffin- Thanks, but I have to disagree I'm afraid, maybe I'm a meanie but they look bad to me! Jacob's nose and chin are horrible, Ruby's got weird cheeks, and Jacqueline's mouth looks strange! Funnily enough I think their eyes are alright! Even with Devon's demon eyeliner! (He's supposed to be a demon) I think his chin and mouth are the worst! And his nose is horrible in profile.

moonlight_frog-Thanks, I must be lucky because it's never crashed for me so far.

gazania-Thanks, I do kind of like faces with character aswell, especially when you've gotten attached to a sim! I do have some sims with odd faces that I've kept the same, but I've changed Ruby and Jacob, much as I love them! Their whole family just seems to have bad genes! No I don't have any default replacement facial templates. I think I'm getting better at making faces (fingers crossed, as I've bred some pretty sims, but the babies haven't grown up yet and I haven't exported them so can't look in CAS).

Haha yeah we could be in our own TV show! With 'before's' and 'after's'!

I have read that SimPE doesn't pass the features on either.

VerDeTerre-Thanks, I had heard that the SimPE way wasn't genetic, but maybe if it worked for you it might work for me.

Neder-Thanks for explaining. I'm still a bit confused though, sorry. How do you know which genes are dominant? Is it random or are there patterns eg. big noses are dominant and small noses recessive? Or will something be dominant if you put it's name/number in the dominant box? For features, could you just write 'nose' and that sim's nose would be dominant? What does 'customs are hex strings' mean? Sorry to be thick.

Sushigal007-Oh I see, thanks. I have heard of that one before, but if I remember rightly, it was on MATY and I couldn't get on there last time as it thought I was a spammer! lol! I don't really mind duplicate sims as I can make them look different with hair and make-up.

simsample-Thankyou, I do actually back up fairly often at the moment, I'm just often scared to try new things as a)I'm a noob and b)I worry it may cause problems weeks down the line, after I've deleted the appropriate back up. I don't have loads of space so only keep about 4 back ups at any one time.

AlexandraSpears-Thanks, I know what you mean, I like the idea of a family resemblance, but so far my kids have only inherited the ugly features! lol!

M.M.A.A.-Maybe this one?

[M.M.A.A.]

M.M.A.A.-Maybe this one?

I'm afraid so, yes.

You know, at first, I thought he was ugly, as in 'Peni Griffin's Sims' ugly (which they are not Peni) which is why I suggested a different hairstyle, but after careful reconsideration and seeing the face several times, he has got to go!

[Neder]

Neder-Thanks for explaining. I'm still a bit confused though, sorry. How do you know which genes are dominant? Is it random or are there patterns eg. big noses are dominant and small noses recessive? Or will something be dominant if you put it's name/number in the dominant box? For features, could you just write 'nose' and that sim's nose would be dominant? What does 'customs are hex strings' mean? Sorry to be thick.
Dominant hair and eyes are determined by an in-game formula. For instance, a Sim with 2 black hair genes and a Sim with 2 blond hair genes will have black haired children, but black (00000001-0000-0000-0000-000000000000) will show up in the dominant box and blond (00000003-0000-0000-0000-000000000000) will show up as recessive. So the blond can still be passed on (50% chance) but will only be expressed if paired with another blond (or I think red- which can be dominant or recessive by chance).
Putting the number for blond in the dominant box in the DNA will not make it dominant, it still has a 50/50 chance of being passed on and won't be expressed if paired with a black or brown gene.

As far as the facial features, there are never any listed in the recessive box. Now, I'm just basing this on observations, but it seems to me that the features that show up in the dominant box are those that were tweaked the most in CAS (or Bodyshop). I referred to them as "off-template" in a previous post. Generally, if you look at the default Maxis face templates, what you would consider to be the ugliest feature (the bulbous noses, the wiiiide toadlike mouths, or the really curved eyes) are the types of things that tend to fall in as dominant traits.
From your pictures, Devon's chin/mouth and Jacob's nose are probably dominant.

Technically all the DNA codes are hex strings. What I meant in the picture was: while the 4 main colors of hair (and skin) have nice numbers 1 through 4 like I listed above, custom hairs and skins will have numbers like "5196a7d0-4e40-89f7-e805-a5a5900a1781." Not so easy to remember.
Strangely, even the default eyes have strings like that. Light Blue, which you would expect to be number 1 through 5 is 0758508c-7111-40f9-b33b-706464626ac9.

If you list a Sim's nose as dominant, it will be passed on to their children unless the other parent also has their (different) nose listed as dominant. In which case, the inherited trait is decided by a virtual coin flip.

[Dizzy-noodles]

Hello. Thankyou for such a detailed explanation, you're very kind. I don't have a lot of experience with SimPE, but I'm learning bit by bit from people on here.

I'm quite disappointed that the 'ugly' features are the ones that are more likely to get passed on! It's ok though as I wasn't going to let those sims breed anyway, now I know it's definitely a bad idea.

Thanks for explaining about the hex strings, now I can see what you mean. Your picture was very helpful, by the way.

I think I will go and have a look at SimPE, just out of curiousity.

[Neder]

Like Simsample said above, backup your neighborhood files! Even if you don't plan on changing anything, it never hurts to be safe.
And I'm curious why someone clicked "disagree" with my post above, and yet didn't bother to supply a better explanation...