Has EA gone too far with this??

[ButchSims]

This was just recently posted on the Sims 3 Facebook page, by EA. Here (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150921007850079&set=a.10150860900585079.394804.35298715078&type=1) For those who don't know, this is the "Good Guy Greg" meme, in which a smug guy, named Greg, is shown smoking marijuana. Now, regardless about how one feels about marijuana or it's legality, I really don't think this was a good move on EA's part. The facebook page is frequently used by teens and younger children, and showing this kind of content on the main page, with over 12 million potential viewers, will not make many parents happy. It only reinforces the perception that the people who post for the game on Facebook have a 12 year old's mentality, and for a game that has a Teen rating, I feel it is entirely inappropriate. If it was Grand Theft Auto, maybe I would feel differently. What do you think? Am I making too much of this, or did EA really screw the pooch on this one?

[DuskTrooper]

I think you're just making a big deal out of something that was done purely for the "lulz".

[ButchSims]

If so, it wasn't funny. Imagine a parent, who may already be on the fence about letting their child play the game, because of things like woohoo and drinking. Now, they go to check innocent little Suzy's Facebook page, and find this guy with a joint sticking out of his mouth. Is this a good representation of the game, or it's fan base?

[Oaktree]

I think the problem in your scenario lies with the parent, not with EA. I don't suggest we forcibly change the parent's method of parenting, but, by the time your kid is a teen, they generally are aware of drugs and know whether they are interested in taking them or not. The DARE program makes sure they are aware of drugs and generally does little to deter drug use, so, even if you are trying to shelter your child from the world - ensuring little Johnny or Suzie doesn't know how to act when confronted with these things, how to make their own decisions - you're not going to be able to shelter them from the reality of drugs. You just have to hope that you've taught them well enough to trust that they won't do anything stupid in your absence.

[VerDeTerre]

Wow - you're right! That is juvenile. It's stupid and inappropriate. I don't really take that as a joint, necessarily, especially the way it's stuck in his mouth. It could be a small cigar like a Swisher Sweet or a hand-rolled cigarette, which is still inappropriate. Not sure what they were going for with that image or that stupid little description that goes with it.

Is that really an EA sanctioned or created official Facebook page? I can't tell.

Dusktrooper - Lulz? Really? That's fine for 15 year-olds telling private jokes, but it's completely wrong for a public share.

[Saturnfly]

I'm surprised people read their half-assed, blatantly humourless meme's.

[RoseCity]

If there is a problem, then it's EA's and why should I care about that? It's up to each parental unit to decide whether they want their kids playing Sims 3 or going on Facebook.

[coltraz]

Maybe that's not a joint.

[ButchSims]

It is a joint, it is a fairly well known meme. I am willing to give EA the benefit of the doubt, and hope they thought it was something else. And it is the Officially Sanctioned page. But my point is, should EA, on a page that is known to be frequented by children, not just adults or teens, really lower themselves to use such crass images for a game with a Teen rating? After all, it is not part of the game. If I, as an adult, choose to use a mod, let's say, to include such content, that is my decision, and doesn't affect anyone else. For a game that, let's face it, is being marketed to an ever-younger crowd, this is simply not appropriate, in my opinion. And true, there are many ways in which teens are familiarized with drug use. But the Sims page on Facebook should not be one of them.

edit: Also, even if it is NOT a joint, it is certainly being perceived as such, in the comments.

[VerDeTerre]

I would agree with that. I would also like to add that showing bad behavior in a game and not labeling it as such normalizes it in the minds of those who are developing their self-image.

Attitude is most definitely transmitted culturally though popular medium and sets standards for what's acceptable, what's allowable, what's "in".

[paksetti]

hahaha. I really don't believe you're serious. I mean, you clearly are, but I choose not to believe it. Holy jesus, aren't there better things to be worrying about? hahaha "crass".


(The game is rated "t", it is intended for teens, not children. Teens are well aware of what a joint is.) If cartoon sex under a blanket and fake alcohol (with no intoxicating effects) are really such a huge deal to the parent of a teenager, I doubt that they'd tolerate their precious babe being exposed to a picture of an illicit substance. But that hypothetical person probably also looks over their kid's shoulder at all times while they're on the computer anyway. I doubt they'd allow facebook in the first place.

EVERYBODY PANIC, IT'S A PHOTO OF WHAT'S PROBABLY DRUGS THAT YOU'VE MOST LIKELY ALREADY SEEN BEFORE.

[Oaktree]

Given that EA provides the information that the Sims games are rated T, I think it is reasonable to expect that their fanbase consists primarily of teens and up, or children whose parents believe them to be mature enough to handle a teen rated game. Again, the problem here is on the shoulders of the parent, not EA. There's no reason why parts of the internet intended for mature individuals should be censored because there might be children looking at them. If parents don't want their children seeing that, they need to figure out how to keep their children away from that.

[omegastarr82]

As someone that doesn't get offended easily and an avid pot smoker, I am surprised that that was put up by EA. As a company I can totes see someone getting fired for that. But then again, the Sims 3 facebook page is an even bigger joke than the official forums so who cares. Memes are lulzy, pot is lulzy. Children shouldn't be on FB anyways.

[VerDeTerre]

There's no reason why parts of the internet intended for mature individuals should be censored because there might be children looking at them. If parents don't want their children seeing that, they need to figure out how to keep their children away from that.

Are you saying that Facebook is intended for mature individuals? Are you aware that some employers look to see how job applicants conduct themselves on Facebook? From my perspective, I would say Facebook is a public medium.

[SuicidiaParasidia]

The facebook page is frequently used by teens and younger children, and showing this kind of content on the main page, with over 12 million potential viewers, will not make many parents happy.

...soooo?
doesnt change that their teens still smoke pot behind their backs. cripes, people, you have only to look as far as your own childhood to assume how your child will act in the face of a new and social experience. and assuming that nothing too traumatically awful happened to you, its not the end of the world anyway.

id have a problem with EA doing something like portraying killing people as cool, or making subjugating female figures an aspiration, or--oh wait, there are already games like that. and kids play them.

and, wait--what?
how is weed so very not okay and yet cigarettes, an addictive DRUG that effects not only the users health, but the people around them, and lead cause of CANCER (read: a slow, painful, agonizing DEATH) somehow more okay to show to kids who are apparently SO impressionable that they cant decide for themselves to smoke something or not?!

either you trust your kid(s) to make the beneficial decision, or you dont. thats all it really boils down to, and im sick of parents hefting the blame for poorly raised children off on some kind of advertising.

[whiterider]

There's a big, big gap between an image which communicates, among other things, "Hey look, this is pot" and one which communicates "Hey kids, you should smoke pot!". I can understand consternation in the second case, because decisions about drugs should be for the kid to make when they're old enough, and shouldn't be influenced by corporations - they are, of course, but that influence is inappropriate and should be minimised. In the first case, though? Yes. Pot exists and some people smoke it. I really fail to see the "corrupting" influence here.

[HystericalParoxysm]

Not even slightly fussed over it. I don't really mind if my kids see people smoking pot - kind of hard to avoid with a "coffee shop" two doors down from us. And if they want to smoke pot when they're of age, that doesn't bother me either. I'm a lot more bothered with them having to walk through clouds of cigarette smoke, or the idea of them smoking cigarettes or drinking too much alcohol. Consider my pearls decidedly unclutched.

[VerDeTerre]

Everyone has made some good points about keeping it in perspective, so it's not the end of the world of course, but it's still in bad taste. Whether it's pot or a cigar, the guy is still smoking and talking about drowning characters. What were they going for? A gangster? I don't know. I tend to see this game as being about identifying with the characters you play or create. I forget that it's possible to have characters and maybe that's all that was supposed to be. In that case, it's not as bad. However, I really hope they don't add smoking to the game.

[Oaktree]

Are you saying that Facebook is intended for mature individuals? Are you aware that some employers look to see how job applicants conduct themselves on Facebook? From my perspective, I would say Facebook is a public medium.

It's been a while since I looked at Facebook's terms of service, but aren't you supposed to be at least 13 to sign up? If that is the case, the site is for people in the appropriate demographic for The Sims. Even if it isn't the case, younger children whose parents don't give them The Sims to play, aren't going to be interested in reading a Facebook page about The Sims. Only those who are familiar with it, and theoretically in it's appropriate demographic, are going to know about it to look at the page.

[VerDeTerre]

@Oaktree - I thought we were discussing 13 year olds all this time.

[littlesunshine123xx]

I seen this and was bit shocked. Just kinda unprofessional really it not going to cause harm to anyone but still pot is illegal in most places.
Just weird when the same company keep everything in the game basically pg-13/12a friendly.

[ElementMK]

I don't care about the joint, but every time I see a "humorous" post on that page ...
http://i.imgur.com/1D19A.gif

[RoseCity]

@Oaktree - I thought we were discussing 13 year olds all this time.

A 13 year old can have a Facebook account; unless their parents say otherwise they may have had access to the internet at large for much longer than that and seen many worse things than Good Guy Greg smoking a joint.
It was probably bad judgment to post that picture, but it wasn't as bad as 'oh my god the children can never unsee this!'. There are things like this everywhere that even a sheltered child might see. I've seen things on this site that might be considered inappropriate at random times; maybe I've slipped and committed these errors myself. It's going to happen.
That's why I say that if a parent is really worried about it, they are the ones that have to do something about it on their end, monitoring internet use 24/7 or not allowing their children to play Sims 3 or banning the internet altogether.

[whiterider]

...the guy is still smoking and talking about drowning characters. What were they going for? A gangster? I don't know.It's a guy who's incredibly laid back, presumably because of the pot; the (rather lame) joke being that he's so damn laid back that he doesn't even drown sims, unlike normal sims players. So pretty much the opposite of what you were thinking. ;)

[VerDeTerre]

@ Whiterider: Ah! That make sense! Thanks for explaining it.

@ RoseCity: I agree - the occasional inappropriate thing seen or experienced, especially through humor is no biggie. It's the repeated images and inference that certain behavior is acceptable and normal that does damage. Yes, parents need to monitor what their children are watching and doing, but many don't. Those that don't are either trusting or unaware of what can come from pop culture conditioning, or they just may be focused on other aspects of child raising and forgetting about what is communicated through culture. That age, especially, is looking towards their peers for guidance and and pop media is approved by the peer group. That age is defining who they are and are very concerned with how they appear to their peers. That's all I was trying to say. No, it's not the end of the world, it's what adds up and is insidious in its influence that causes damage. The image in this case does not appear to be one of those tropes that cries "this is normal, accepted or attractive behavior". I misread it when I first saw it. As a character or as a joke (and, yes, it's rather pithy), it's ok-ish.

[Mistermook]

@Oaktree - I thought we were discussing 13 year olds all this time.
Except for the OP, who was discussing twelve year old "teenagers" I guess.

[Misty4m]

Are we talking about the same sims 3 facebook page because I have not seen that post on their page today.

Sims 3 Facebook Page (https://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#!/TheSims3)

[SeeMyu]

I think it was pretty weird for them to put that up. But it's nothing new for teenagers. I've seen multiple teenagers (including some my age) flaunting around accessories and whatnot that say: "Legalize Weed!" or just have the plant emblem on it. Now, if the facebook page posted something like that up.. I would be reacting way differently than I am now. Like everyone else is saying.. it really isn't influencing teens to smoke "pot" or smoke at all.. it's just a simple meme. :)

[Erin2341]

I have clicked the link in the original post - the image is not there anymore. Facebook has told me the content is unavailable. I think they removed it, which tells me that everyone else thought that EA had gone a little too far. For those that prefer their sims to walk the straight and narrow, the image is just a bit disturbing, as I think it was, but for anyone else.. you can't change the way people live their lives over an image like that and arguing about it. :/

[VerDeTerre]

Are we talking about the same sims 3 facebook page because I have not seen that post on their page today.

Sims 3 Facebook Page (https://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#!/TheSims3) Hmmm...the original link no longer works. Maybe they pulled it? I looked a little at that page. It's pretty weird overall.

[piggypeach]

It's Good Guy Greg... So what? If they can't handle that harmless picture, they shouldn't sign up for facebook!

[Oaktree]

@Oaktree - I thought we were discussing 13 year olds all this time.

My point is that The Sims is rated T, which means 13-year-olds are within the demographic. As I mentioned earlier, teenagers are already aware of drugs. On top of that, a large number of them have seen that very picture numerous times before, and may not even think of it for its connection to pot, so much as its memetic meaning. I sincerely doubt that any harm was done by EA placing the picture on their facebook page, aside from the harm done to their reputation as regards their ability to write humor.

[paksetti]

I always thought good guy greg was smoking a cigarette. I never once thought it was a joint, but now that I actually think of it, It's probably a joint. I never payed that much attention to it. I just saw "a nice looking guy" not "a nice looking guy SMOKING DRUGS."

[VerDeTerre]

My point is that The Sims is rated T, which means 13-year-olds are within the demographic. As I mentioned earlier, teenagers are already aware of drugs. On top of that, a large number of them have seen that very picture numerous times before, and may not even think of it for its connection to pot, so much as its memetic meaning. I sincerely doubt that any harm was done by EA placing the picture on their facebook page, aside from the harm done to their reputation as regards their ability to write humor. No doubt, I understand why you would take this position. I believe this has already been discussed within this thread. Please refer back to my posts about why I concede that this may not be as bad as I thought at first, but also why young teens are at risk from negative influence from attitudes communicated by culture with repeated exposure. However, I doubt it applies in this case since it was supposed to be a joke. You are right, the humor fell short. Overall, their Facebook page seems full of posts that are odd, off, and not terribly funny.

[Mistermook]

Their Facebook page seems full of posts that are odd, off, and not terribly funny.
*snort* Congratulations, welcome to Facebook.

Or the Internet.

Or other people.

:D

[crocobaura]

What do you think? Am I making too much of this, or did EA really screw the pooch on this one?


Maybe it's a hint that there will be pot and smoking in the next EP. It's a feature that many simmers seem to want and it would definitely boost their sales.

[TheSimaniac]

Facebook has a minimum age for a reason, this is just one of them. If people are letting children on websites they're too young to go on then it's their own fault, it's not the responsibility of others to ensure that everything is child friendly even if it's very specifically stated that it's not.

Regardless, I haven't the faintest idea how this could do any harm. Anyone who recognises what it is (and the idea that it's anything illegal is nothing more than an assumption, a highly dubious one at that) he's smoking isn't going to decide they're going to do the same. As you've said, the game itself has themes unsuitable for children (a reason why the game has a minimum age rating as well), the game's creators posting a meme which children clearly won't recognise as an illegal drug is the least of the parents' problems.

[SeeMyu]

Maybe it's a hint that there will be pot and smoking in the next EP. It's a feature that many simmers seem to want and it would definitely boost their sales.

Well, they have Cmo to help for that ;)

[RoseCity]

Maybe it's a hint that there will be pot and smoking in the next EP. It's a feature that many simmers seem to want and it would definitely boost their sales.

That would be funny if your sim could fire one up after a hard day at the Doo Peas office.

[paksetti]

That and the hookah could really be a hookah. I feel like a gigantic dork, but I want my sims to have drugs. All of the drugs. Drugs I would never do.

I want dumpster junkie sims.

[RoseCity]

That's an EP I would love to have.

[taylorpapa]

I don't think you're making too much of it. I don't understand why EA would post a video that involves pot, something that I would think would bring up the rating of the game from Teen to Mature. If EA themselves are going to post and in some way promote drug use, I don't see what the big deal is about simmers wanting teen pregnancy in the game. Were not aloud to even bring up the topic in the forum and they're going to promote drug use? I don't see how this makes sense?

[paksetti]

It wasn't a video, and it wasn't promoting drug use. It's was just the good guy greg meme.

[Tempscire]

On the one hand, yeah, probably anyone looking at that page has already seen that meme or similar humor and pot references, if not used it themselves, and they're supposed to be 13+ anyway, and parental responsibilities and yada yada. Pot: no big deal.

On the other hand, it does seem like a strange thing for an official corporate outlet of a relatively respectable brand* to post. (*anyone who thinks I mean EA is a respectable company by that statement-- no.) Sims don't even drink any actual alcohol-- not even wine!-- or smoke tobacco cigarettes, both of which are actually legal in the US (though not for 12-18/21 year olds, even if that age group is allowed on FB or other secondhand exposure). And though they do include mature themes (or at least clear implications of mature themes) in the game, they're very careful to keep it from tipping over to the mature category, which I guess would apparently include actual drug use by name. (ETA: that referring to alcohol, not whatever Good Guy Greg is smoking, which obviously isn't named. Though if pot, then I would suspect illegal drug use would again go back to the mature category thing; YMMV by country.) Chances are anyone visiting the page is aware of sex, too, but they still wouldn't be cracking penis jokes, would they?

There are plenty of activities that, regardless of age, legality, the opinions of moral guardians, and whatever, would be perfectly acceptable to post wherever in whatever capacity. On the other hand, is it wise to? I'm sure plenty of people hit up e.g. McDonald's for some post-indulgence comfort food, but you're pretty unlikely to see them officially claiming the connection in any way-- avoiding even the appearance of impropriety, as the saying goes. Plenty of corporate mouthpieces ignore/don't repeat things like that, even when they're directly shoved in their direction, because doing so would be stupid in some way.

In short, do I think this is offensive or reprehensible or whatever? No. Do I think it's surprisingly outré for a corporate entity? Absolutely. I don't even care about whatever possible message it could be sending to teens or not (for reasons which have been well repeated in previous comments): the more pressing issue is how that post connects to whatever corporate image EA wants for The Sims via the official FB page, and I highly doubt that was it. That's the "bad idea" portion of sharing the meme there, and it's no wonder it was taken down. I wouldn't be surprised if the FB page handlers found themselves being called in for a meeting to remind them what topics are allowed on the FB page.

[RoseCity]

Maybe somebody hacked EA's Facebook page.

[crocobaura]

Maybe it's an age filter. If simmers recognise the pot smoking it's safe to assume they are 13+. If they get outraged by the pot smoking they are really old or undercover cops.

[GnatGoSplat]

I don't understand the concern. Some may debate this, but pot is arguably no more harmful than cigarettes and nobody makes a fuss over children seeing photos of people smoking cigs. Nobody makes a fuss over images of people with guns, yet far more children and teens are hurt or killed by use/misuse of guns than smoking joints. I'm not a parent, but if I were, I think I would be far more upset to find a gun hidden in my kid's dresser than a joint.
I'm not saying I'm against guns, but that when put into perspective, an image of a guy smoking a joint is really no big deal. Not to me, anyway.

[SimmingSince7]

It's rated T for teen.. At that age, one should know what marijuana is. If a parent has a problem with their kid knowing about this kind of stuff, then they shouldn't even be letting them play the game in the first place.

[BlakeS5678]

It's ironic that pornography is just as accessible to "youngsters" as Facebook is...

Children can find almost anything on the internet, and when I say anything, I MEAN anything. It's not that hard to get to that "weird part" of youtube, trust me, I know. *Shudders* What I'm trying to say is, our kids can get into all sorts of weird situations in life and it's a lot better to prepare them than to leave them uneducated. With the internet these days, "Good Guy Greg" is the least of our worries. On a side note, you ARE "supposed"* to be 13 before you get a Facebook. account, and it isn't exactly a tragedy when a 13 year old sees a picture of weed on the internet. And, let's be honest here people, teens, much less kids, won't be checking the Sims 3 Facebook wall every hour, because Sims really isn't that popular / cool.

*Refers to rampaging 9 year olds with Facebook accounts.

[McChoclatey]

At my school, most 6th graders are running around asking each other if they're still virgins...

In short, I don't think most teens will be very shocked about the image. Parents, maybe.

[paksetti]

Y'all don't get it. It's everyone else's job to make sure nothing they do could be harmful should a child stumble upon it. It is your duty to make sure you never do anything that's not G-rated! Children are everywhere, man. That means no more MTS. We do have an age limit, but no one follows the rules anyway! This site should be shut down now because a kid might see it.

fuckn a, man.

[ButchSims]

My original point was, should The Sims 3 page have posted that pic. Not that kids can find out about drugs anywhere, or that I'm raging against drug use, or that it is "everyone else's job to make sure nothing they do could be harmful" should a child stumble upon it. It was more the fact that their facebook page is really a giant advertising service, and that this was the equivlent of posting a very bad ad for the game, considering it is a Teen rated game, not a Mature one.

yes, children know about drugs. and sex. and the Atom Bomb. and whatever bad thing you can think of. That doesn't mean that they should have to see it from a page that is supposed to be kid friendly, and a harmless form of escapism. Considering that they DID take the post down, someone higher up at EA must have thought the same thing, because it gave a negative impression to many fans and parents of those fans. EA already has a very negative image right now, even though they pretend to ignore that fact. This was just a bad idea from the get go.

There are Mods and CC on this site that some people may find to be objectionable content. However, the site itself does a pretty good job spelling out for people what they can expect to find here, so if they sign up for it, they have been warned ahead of time, and so they wouldn't have much ground for complaints. Some facebook pages are they same way, for example, on my page, I spell out right away what it's about, so if someone thinks I posted something they object to, I point out to them that they knew what they were getting when they liked my page. But the Sims page is supposed to be a "kid-appropriate" place. It's all a matter of context.

[RoseCity]

You use the words 'child', 'children', 'kid-friendly', 'kid-appropriate' which convey to me someone older than a toddler but younger than a teen. The Sims 3 is rated T which I assume means 13 and up and, as far as I know, does not mean you should have the expectation of it being 'kid-friendly' nor that the Facebook page for a game rated T would be 'kid-friendly'.

[Oaktree]

If I understand your apparent clarification correctly, then my response would be that the choice is up to EA and this is a non-debate. If you just think it's an error in marketing, that's up to them to decide, and there's no real reason for us to debate it because we don't have any say in their marketing. Debate room topics aren't for opinion polls, either. If you're trying to make a moral argument, then that's what the debate has been to this point.

[BlakeS5678]

Debate room topics aren't for opinion polls, either. If you're trying to make a moral argument, then that's what the debate has been to this point.

Meh. The debate room has been really watered down recently anyways. This is the first discussion in a while that has actually had opposing sides. Bedsides I think the debate was intended to be if it's okay or not, not if they should have done it.

[Oaktree]

I'm thinking from what he's saying that the intent wasn't to make a normative claim, but the debate has been fine with the assumption that there is a normative claim here.

[Mistermook]

"Titles rated T (Teen) have content that may be suitable for ages 13 and older. Titles in this category may contain violence, suggestive themes, crude humor, minimal blood, simulated gambling, and/or infrequent use of strong language."

I think it's pretty clear that this qualifies as "crude humor."

[BlakeS5678]

I think it's pretty clear that this qualifies as "crude humor."

I thought crude humor was farting noises. I got to get out more often...

[Mistermook]

I thought crude humor was farting noises. I got to get out more often...
The important bit is what it isn't:

"MATURE
Titles rated M (Mature) have content that may be suitable for persons ages 17 and older. Titles in this category may contain intense violence, blood and gore, sexual content and/or strong language.

ADULTS ONLY
Titles rated AO (Adults Only) have content that should only be played by persons 18 years and older. Titles in this category may include prolonged scenes of intense violence and/or graphic sexual content and nudity."

So unless someone's arguing that EA "crossed a line" and went into Mature territory in its promotion of The Sims, which would imply something in the territory of Saw, Pulp Fiction, or Deep Throat, then I think they're pretty clearly not beyond the realm of the T rating.

[Laserai]

I do sympathize with your concern and that this may present a bad image of EA to the populous particularly parents who have authority to end game play based on their decisions. However, I am forced to agree with many who have already replied by stating it is after all their opinion. Also since this is a Teen based game, hopefully those playing it are at a point where they will not be easily offended.

Second of all, as careful as EA can be, their are some out there who will look for a spot on a clean sheet and so forth. Is there a way to run a gaming company with a perfect rating where everyone agrees with your direction and focus? Probably not. So I agree with your concern but in the end I believe this is ball is in EA's media relations court.

Hopefully, this wasn't a critical fail but as strong as EA is I am not overly worried this publicity act on Facebook will irrevocably damage their image or invoke an alarmingly large number of parents to give the thumbs down to their teens for trying to play this game.

[Riptide651]

The page you linked to is currently unavailable, so if its any consolation, the controversy this has caused has backfired on EA.