Story in Games.

[crazyfoolgaf_SC]

http://www.tothegame.com/ps2-7812-yakuza-2-for-sony-playstation-2.html

The link above leads to a digested page filled with info on the newly announced Yakuza 2.I am a massive fan of the original game.It may have been, graphically deficient, but It had no real need for pretty visuals.It follows the story of a high ranking Yakuza member named Kazuma, who is sent to prison for a crime he did not commit ( I know, ironic :P) He is released, and begins unraveling the mystery of the disappearance of his girlfriend, and his brother.

The story unfolds from that point on in an unprecedented cinematic style, which sucks you in from the word go.While the gameplay is an excellent mix of mild role playing, brutal combat and exploration, the story and presentation is the main driving force behind the game.

Do you believe that story is an important feature in a game?

Do you prefer a game with an extensive story and branching plot over a game with a linear story and mostly gameplay?

Do you have another game that you can say is truly excellent based mainly on its plot? (Final Fantasy 7-10 Half Life 2 and Mass Effect are three that I can ring off the top of my head.)

What is your opinion of Story based games.Consider the above games, and take a look at Yakuza 2 before you anwser, if you feel you need to examine some cases.

Personally? I believe games are the next great story telling medium, and am very happy to immerse myself in a deep, complex story over which I have some control :)

[ElPresidente]

Great topic for discussion!

About 2 or 3 months ago I discussed the very same thing in Out to Play (a monthly opinion piece I write for PC Powerplay) and my response is that no, games should not be judged solely on story. Games are not literature, they are not cinema and while they can tell stories it does not mean they must.

The most important thing for a game to have is that indefinable quantity called gameplay. Without that the best story in the world will count for nothing. The thing that really upsets me is that I have forgiven too many games with lacklustre gameplay for their stories.

Case in point - Dreamfall: The Longest Journey

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x276/theevil2k3/dreamfall/cover.jpg

Ragnar Tornquist was responsible for one of the greatest adventure games ever made when he released his 1999 adventure opus 'The Longest Journey'. The game was definitely one of the harder adventure games to have been made with a handful of puzzles which were illogical but nonetheless it combined the strong tried and tested gameplay of the traditional adventure genre with a sweeping and powerful narrative about human dreams and hearts. Never did exceptionally well commercially but was enough of a critical success to warrant the release of the sequal Dreamfall in 2006.

As Dreamfall plays out as the middle chapter of the overarching story it is perhaps even better than The Longest Journey thanks to Tornquist being free to widen the narrative without having to rush to tie it all together by the games end.

However as a game Dreamfall is lacklustre. Puzzles are extremely basic and players will spend more time running back and forth between characters to keep the plot going. There are even some disconcertingly cynical additions such as combat and stealth to further sour the gameplay brew.

Yet I would recommend Dreamfall to everyone, just not as a game. Were I to review the title it would probably scrape in a 6 but as a piece of narrative it is a 9.

When desiring story we need to be careful it is not at the cost of gameplay. Gameplay is the element that distinguishes games from other media and that is the God the game must serve before all else.

Now none of this to suggest that gameplay and story are mutually exclusive.

http://i.testfreaks.com/images/products/600x400/86/planescape-torment.376918.jpg

Planescape: Torment - If there is a story to rival Dreamfall's it is found here. Asking demanding questions about what can change the nature of a person this is a game all about searching the soul. On top of that it all takes place within the Infinity Engine, an RPG game engine that powered Bioware and Black Isle RPGs since Baldur's Gate.

Gameplay was excellent, level design brilliant and on top of an extremely impressive skeleton was hung Chris Avellone's story of damnation and redemption that in the words of one of my games journo colleagues is the closest gaming has come to literatre.

Story is good but you should never buy a game on story alone simply because you will find better story telling in other media. Games are the cake, story is naught but the icing. It can be a great way to keep the effort reward loop going and maintain interest but the game still has to be enjoyable to play. That is what makes it a game.

Do you prefer a game with an extensive story and branching plot over a game with a linear story and mostly gameplay?

What you have suggested here is something of a misnomer. An extensive story is more likely to be linear. In fact there are very few examples of successfully implemented non-linear storylines in game.

Perhaps the best example would be the experimental title Façade (http://www.InteractiveStory.net):

http://static.flickr.com/91/221294755_97f22db7f7.jpg

This is perhaps the best example of interactive story-telling to date. It may look primitive and it largely is. This is because the implementation of the idea of a player directed story is primitive. We're a long long long way off doing it successfully and that is because how do you predict player actions and then write to accommodate them. Façade does an admirable job but it is still all artiface.

When looking at actual commercial release titles I have to say that Yakuza is not a non-linear storyline. It is very linear. Even though the gamplay may be non-linear the storyline isn't.

Great story telling largely needs to be linear; the closest examples of good game stories that have attempted to be non-linear would be Troika's Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines and Planescape: Torment.

Both of these games are very good at creating the illusion that you are driving the story but in reality (and particularly in Torments case) all they are doing is acting as a choose your own adventure book where you may or may not see all the chapters. However these individual chapters, while tying into the main plot are largely self-contained. It is a very good illusion but an illusion nonetheless.

Do you have another game that you can say is truly excellent based mainly on its plot? (Final Fantasy 7-10 Half Life 2 and Mass Effect are three that I can ring off the top of my head.)

As much as I love the plot of Half-Life 2 I can assure the exception critical reception it recieved was not because of the wonderfully understated plot. Half-Life 2 is an excellent game because of exceptional game design. The plot could be practically non-existant and the game would still be praised for its gameplay. It is one of the best FPS titles ever made and that is not related to its story. Proof of this is that the story is something the player needs to actively seek and the game was still a runaway success. The general gaming public do not put effort into their games beyond what is presented to them and the story in Half-Life 2 requires effort from the player.

As for Final Fantasy X... it made my brain bleed. One of my most hated games ever and the definite shark jump for the Final Fantasy series in my eyes. That has nothing to do with the topic at hand... I just hate that game. :P

[kinneer_SC]

I do not think a strong story is required, although it would be nice. I think it depends on the style of game. Adventure games would required a good story behind but unfortunately it is a dying, if not dead, genre. FPS benefit very little and a little back story is all the is required.

However, I do not think a good story in games is something we will see regularly. One reason is the duration of the game. Games requiring tens of hours to complete will be a rarity. Most games are aimed at 8 to 10 hours. I am still playing Morrowind for example and I have yet to start Bloodmoon and Mournhold, the two expansion pack for it.

Finally, a game I think should be mentioned is Realm Of The Haunting. A great story and game which never reach the success it deserved.

[crazyfoolgaf_SC]

Sorry guys, I sorta forgot I posted this :P El Presidente, you make a very compelling argument, but I can't help but see story as a cornerstone of game development.I believe that when a game has an excellent story, it can often be incentive to play through even the most awful monotonous system of gameplay.Case in point, final fantasy 7, a classic and an epic story. Gameplay consists of exploration of relatively attractive environments, but broken up by random turn based combat battles, which, while more tactical than open field combat, is boring and gets very repetitive.Despite this, I would happily sit down and "train" for hours just to defeat the next boss, just so that I can see what happens next in the main plot.When i lose the boss fight, I'm not angry because I have to fight it again, but because I have to do more training.Now, lets take another example, Ethrian Odessy.

EO is a game that would fall into the same category as FF 7, a game based around a turn based battle system, with lots of exploring and loot collection.It also has an interesting original gameplay dynamic, namely manually drawing a map of each area you pass through.It is however, seriously lacking in story, and the gameplay listed below is deeply unsatisfying and quickly tires.Also, a lack of actual direction in the game often leaves you stranded on a floor wondering what you should do next, and this eventually kills any real will to play on.

Its cases like this that make me believe story can be, and sometimes is, the metaphorical screw upon which a game turns.

[Fantasyrogue]

EO is a game that would fall into the same category as FF 7, a game based around a turn based battle system, with lots of exploring and loot collection.It also has an interesting original gameplay dynamic, namely manually drawing a map of each area you pass through.It is however, seriously lacking in story, and the gameplay listed below is deeply unsatisfying and quickly tires.Also, a lack of actual direction in the game often leaves you stranded on a floor wondering what you should do next, and this eventually kills any real will to play on.

Its cases like this that make me believe story can be, and sometimes is, the metaphorical screw upon which a game turns.

Etrian Odyssey is a game designed specifically to appeal mainly to the oldschool rpg players. Think the original Wizardry games and the like more than FF7, games which had much less story and were based much more around combat. It's mainly fun for those of us who want to relive the old "draw your own map" dungeon crawling days, those that enjoy number crunching and turn-based combat. The point is to explore, explore some more and keep exploring (and level up and get stronger) :P

A game is at it's best with both a good story and good gameplay. The "good" story is optional in many cases though. Mario is super popular despite it's story boiling down to "save the princess (oh noes, she's in another castle)". Whereas bad gameplay will break a game and it'll take a *damn* good story to forgive bad gameplay elements (people are much more forgiving with a bad story)

Would I prefer games that have excellent stories? Yes, which is why I play certain rpgs (Kudos on mentioning Planescape: Torment, ElPresidente, my favorite game) and why I used to play many (many) adventure games (which, btw, I do not think are *dead* as much as just floundering and could really be revived quite excellently on the DS if some devs would get off their asses).

What I'd like to see more of is developers using the gameplay to drive a story in a way that you couldn't through movies or books.

[ElPresidente]

Sorry guys, I sorta forgot I posted this :P El Presidente, you make a very compelling argument, but I can't help but see story as a cornerstone of game development.I believe that when a game has an excellent story, it can often be incentive to play through even the most awful monotonous system of gameplay.Case in point, final fantasy 7, a classic and an epic story. Gameplay consists of exploration of relatively attractive environments, but broken up by random turn based combat battles, which, while more tactical than open field combat, is boring and gets very repetitive.Despite this, I would happily sit down and "train" for hours just to defeat the next boss, just so that I can see what happens next in the main plot.When i lose the boss fight, I'm not angry because I have to fight it again, but because I have to do more training.Now, lets take another example, Ethrian Odessy.

EO is a game that would fall into the same category as FF 7, a game based around a turn based battle system, with lots of exploring and loot collection.It also has an interesting original gameplay dynamic, namely manually drawing a map of each area you pass through.It is however, seriously lacking in story, and the gameplay listed below is deeply unsatisfying and quickly tires.Also, a lack of actual direction in the game often leaves you stranded on a floor wondering what you should do next, and this eventually kills any real will to play on.

Its cases like this that make me believe story can be, and sometimes is, the metaphorical screw upon which a game turns.

I think you may be putting the cart before the horse a bit here.

I see what you are saying with your examples but they are cases of the gameplay being inadequate, not story being necessary for a good game.

In the absence of good gameplay the story is what has driven your desire to finish a game and this is largely the point I was making with my original post. A game should live or die on its gameplay, not on its story.

Dreamfall; a game I adore, lived on its story thanks to pretty average gameplay and as much as I love that game that situation not good enough. The game should live on its gameplay and the story be an added bonus.

What I'd like to see more of is developers using the gameplay to drive a story in a way that you couldn't through movies or books.

Check out the title Façade I linked to in my earlier post for a good example of narrative being driven in a way no other medium could manage.

Also worth a look is Braid on Xbox Live Arcade.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1169/535979408_79ab3e2564.jpg

This has a very interesting way of tying story to gameplay. It is perhaps a little artificial in its division of the two elements but certainly worth a look and definitely a candidate for the 'games as art' argument.

[Fantasyrogue]

Check out the title Façade I linked to in my earlier post for a good example of narrative being driven in a way no other medium could manage.

Also worth a look is Braid on Xbox Live Arcade.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1169/535979408_79ab3e2564.jpg

This has a very interesting way of tying story to gameplay. It is perhaps a little artificial in its division of the two elements but certainly worth a look and definitely a candidate for the 'games as art' argument.

I've played Façade once quite some time ago, it was an interesting experience. I'm not much for marital drama and the like though, storywise. Nothing against the game itself it's just not my kind of story, I like escapism. I'm just saying I'd like to see *more* of using gameplay to drive a story. I'd like to see more..hm... "show not tell" kind of things, except I don't mean show as in "play a fancy fmv" but more making me do something to unravel a story. Make me stumble on it myself, make it multi-path or have different resolutions. Make me feel something for the characters through how they act in the gameplay as well as the FMVs (not *just* based on FMVs or other cutscenes). Well, there are a million things I could list here that I'd like to see but I think you get the point :P

I don't have an Xbox, so no Braid for me.

[crazyfoolgaf_SC]

I don't entirely agree that a game should ,as El Presidente put it, "live or die on its gameplay"
But I am not in any way advocating the view that a game MUST have a good story, or should live or die on that story.
My point is that a game can live or die on its story.

Games such as FF7 and Dreamfall thrive on their story, and are remembered as genre legends because of that fact.Games such as F.E.A.R or Oblivion for instance, while hosting presentable stories, are loved for their excellent game play.

I understand your point completely fantasyrogue, I hadn't really taken the old skool gamer into account in my example.El Presidente, I understand that as an objective Games rewiewer, you must always evaluate a game based on its substance as interactive entertainment, but I still hold the view that a game can be a great device for telling a story, but ,again, do not believe that a game without story is any less of a game, or cannot compete with a game that does, that is far from my point.

[LoKain]

Well its a mixed bag, not all games needs a solid story, games like Ninja Gaiden, Devil May Cry and well Resident Evil (debatble I know but I detested RE4 but kept playing it for becuz it has a very good gameplay) are a good example of bad horrid story lines, with execelent gameplay. It dosent really need to have a good story line to be fun but think of it as a bonus like in GTAIV.

[Soeverein]

In the absence of good gameplay the story is what has driven your desire to finish a game and this is largely the point I was making with my original post. A game should live or die on its gameplay, not on its story.

Personally, if a game makes me want to finish it, it immediately gets added in my top 10 of games. Regardless what my reasons are for finishing the game.

Games I finished 100%: MGS2, BG 1 + 2, Planescape Torment, Fallout 2, Arcanum, Kotor 1 + 2, NWN HotU expansion, NWN2 MotB expansion, Mass Effect, Overlord, Fable, most of the old Lucasarts point and clicks.

I'm probably missing a few games still. But overall that's not a huge list, is it? Especially considering I've also played hundreds of FPS games, MMORPGs, RTS games and any other genre - I've never finished a single one of them.

With MMORPGs i'll count finish as: get to max level, for the course of this discussion - I usually play MMORPGs obsessively for one weekend and then quit. (talk about a waste of money)

As much as I want good gameplay, if there is NO story, then I will NEVER finish the game. I have a very short attention span, and the only way I will keep playing a game, is if I see a story unfolding before my eyes. I don't keep playing because I want to kill the 5th million rat, or beat level X. I keep playing to the end because I want to know what will happen with my character, with the world around him, etc.

If a game has a story (even a cheesy stereotype story, as long as it evolves throughout the game), the best case scenario is that I finish it 100%. The worst case scenario is that I quit after a while and download a spoiler walkthrough to know the rest of the story after I quit playing. That's how obsessed I am with story in games.

If a game has no story, the best case scenario is that I play it for 10 days before I uninstall it apparently. :P

That's also why I've started writing a story about my sims, otherwise I'd play the game for one day and then uninstall it again.

But hey, I'm still of the generation that I first learned how to read books, and only after that got into videogames. And honestly, with the way the videogame industry has been going lately, I'm starting to prefer reading over gaming again.

[ElPresidente]

If you want good stories then reading is your best answer. Games have no matured enough as a story telling medium and most game stories are written by hacks who would be incapable of getting a publishing deal in the literary world. There are some expceptions but as I said in previous posts it isn't the presence of story that makes something a game.

Not that there is anything wrong with enjoying a story in games. But I find it amusing that it is considered unacceptable in gaming circles to be a graphics whore but it is perfectly okay to be a story whore.

And honestly, with the way the videogame industry has been going lately, I'm starting to prefer reading over gaming again.

How so? I've been gaming for twenty five years now and have seen gaming in its infancy right through to its standard today. As far as I'm concered things are only getting better and the best is yet to come.

[itsnotozzyitsozzy]

Obviously I would have to choose my favorite series, silent hill, I guess it's a good scary story lol...a folk lore or something of that sort, idk :/

[ElPresidente]

Silent Hill 2 has an exceptional story. Don't worry, nothing wrong with praising most of the SH games for their narrative.