EA: Piracy didn't hurt Spore sales

[kattenijin]

In the following article at CNET: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13846_3-10054438-62.html , EA tries to claim that they've sold a million copies of the game (and bypasses the fact that they originally predicted TWO million sales); AND that saying that 500,000 copies have been pirated (um, guys? That figure is over two weeks old! Try a million pirated copies!) is a "misinterpretation of the numbers".


"To say that every download represents a successful copy of the game -- or that there's been more than 500K copies downloaded -- that's just not true."

[kennyinbmore]

They apparently haven't checked any of the biggest torrent sites and the comments left by the downloaders. That game was downloaded to death

[~ParkerSims~]

EA is so full of SH*T.

[Petchy]

Thank you ParkerSims for your accurate post.
-----------------------

I think that spore sales have dropped, but if you think about it, If they say that its a "Success" then they will get more people to buy the game won't they?
Saying its a failure will only mean less people will buy it - everyone likes the winning side....

[simsample]

Most of the people who seem to be pirating Spore seem to be doing so to avoid getting SecuRom on their PCs.

[kennyinbmore]

Most of the people who seem to be pirating Spore seem to be doing so to avoid getting SecuRom on their PCs.
I disagree. People who don't pay for games don't pay for games.

[HystericalParoxysm]

I disagree. People who don't pay for games don't pay for games.

Not... entirely true. Or at least, not always true. While I certainly will agree that most people who pirate games will generally just pirate games because they don't want to pay... there is a not-unsignificant percentage that are, err... pirates with principles...

Such people pirate games when those games have unreasonable anti-piracy protections that create additional hassle for those who have purchased them legitimately...

And the same people purchase games when those games have no unreasonable anti-piracy protections, thus rewarding companies with their business when they make fun, playable games that don't force their paying customers to jump through hoops.

Stardock hasn't just done well with GalCiv2 and SoaSE because they're great games (though they are) - but because they don't have any unreasonable anti-piracy protections, and gamers who are sick of having their games crippled by anti-piracy are willing to shell out for a company that doesn't treat them like automatic thieves.

There are also some who use piracy as a way to get demos of games before they purchase them. Because of the size of most modern games, most companies no longer offer free demos - but it's easy enough for someone to torrent a couple gigs, play a few levels, and then decide whether they want to buy it or not.

Of course, just to reiterate, I'm not naive enough to believe that the people who do either of the above are in the majority, but there certainly are folks out there that have a little more thought process to their piracy than just "I want games for free!"

[HelloClarice]

Plus some people will pirate games just to see if they'll run on their computer - nothing sucks more than buying a game and finding out that it doesn't work. Piracy is a way to check if it works (because sometimes a game will play just fine on a machine that doesn't have the rights specs) before actually buying the game.

[kennyinbmore]

I think you guys should go to torrent sites and read some of the downloader comments on popular torrents. It's almost like a fraternity.

HP: It's kind of weird to see you justifying "some" piracy considering this site bans talk of even a no cd crack. Not judging you, just an observation

[JavaJulie]

As someone who will admit to having pirated games before, it has never been because I was unwilling to pay for it. In fact, downloading a game where I live ends up costing me more than buying it in the store would, because we have download caps in this country. So why would I download a game instead of buying it? Exactly because I want to avoid having software installed on my computer that has conclusively caused problems for me in the past.

I am in the minority, and I'm aware of it. Most people who pirate do so simply because they have no inclination to pay for what they can get for free. I am aware that what I do is wrong, even if for my own principled reasons. But I don't do it because I don't want to pay for a game; in the end, all the Sims games I pirated, I ended up buying, just so that I could have a legitimate key and a manual.

[HystericalParoxysm]

HP: It's kind of weird to see you justifying "some" piracy considering this site bans talk of even a no cd crack. Not judging you, just an observation

Cheering on piracy or asking for links regarding it, etc., is pretty different from explaining a thought process behind it. I'm not really justifying it so much as pointing out that not everyone pirates simply because they want free games. ;)

[simsample]

I disagree. People who don't pay for games don't pay for games.

Well, I wasn't meaning that they were necessarily going to buy the game, although I have heard of a lot of people who have purchased Spore and The Sims 2 mention that they run from a cracked exe. Moreso, what I was meaning was that the fact that SecuRom is present causes people to refuse to install the legitimate game, and therefore look to piracy to avoid this. The primary reason may not be to circumvent payment, but rather to circumvent getting 'SecuRom infestation' (as I've seen it referred to). So the outcome is the same- they don't pay for it- but the cause is the piracy protection itself.

[kennyinbmore]

Well, I wasn't meaning that they were necessarily going to buy the game, although I have heard of a lot of people who have purchased Spore and The Sims 2 mention that they run from a cracked exe. Moreso, what I was meaning was that the fact that SecuRom is present causes people to refuse to install the legitimate game, and therefore look to piracy to avoid this. The primary reason may not be to circumvent payment, but rather to circumvent getting 'SecuRom infestation' (as I've seen it referred to). So the outcome is the same- they don't pay for it- but the cause is the piracy protection itself.

Oh I know what you meant. But I'd be willing to bet my house and a year's salary that the "good" pirates are far out numbered by the "bad" pirates

[kattenijin]

Oh I know what you meant. But I'd be willing to bet my house and a year's salary that the "good" pirates are far out numbered by the "bad" pirates

In general, yes. For Spore... I'm not so sure anymore. It's hard to tell, as the game has been downloaded almost one million times (Hmmm, a 1:1 ratio between "real sales" and "Pirates ARR!"), and I do know of people who have bought a legit copy, and used their key to activate the torrented version, and one person who wrote a nifty little program that downloads a copy, wipes it, and downloads another just to run the number of downloads up...

What I'm waiting to see is the reaction from the Warhammer, Harry Potter, and Sims 3 releases.

[kennyinbmore]

and one person who wrote a nifty little program that downloads a copy, wipes it, and downloads another just to run the number of downloads up...



Just out of curiosity, what would be the purpose of this?

[JavaJulie]

Just out of curiosity, what would be the purpose of this?
The more people appear to have downloaded the game illegally, the bigger a movement there appears to be against that game's DRM (at least, that's the rationale for doing something like that).

[HystericalParoxysm]

The more people appear to have downloaded the game illegally, the bigger a movement there appears to be against that game's DRM (at least, that's the rationale for doing something like that).

Though I think a company like EA knew that it wouldn't be favourably received, yet did it anyway. They'd already toned down the DRM scheme from requiring activation every 10 days after a big backlash, yet left in a still kinda stupid scheme, and SecuROM, which they know many of their consumers hate. So pushing up the piracy numbers in this case I think would be nothing but counter-productive... EA can easily point to it and go, "Look how many people have pirated it - clearly we need anti-piracy and DRM schemes to protect ourselves!"

[kennyinbmore]

Though I think a company like EA knew that it wouldn't be favourably received, yet did it anyway. They'd already toned down the DRM scheme from requiring activation every 10 days after a big backlash, yet left in a still kinda stupid scheme, and SecuROM, which they know many of their consumers hate. So pushing up the piracy numbers in this case I think would be nothing but counter-productive... EA can easily point to it and go, "Look how many people have pirated it - clearly we need anti-piracy and DRM schemes to protect ourselves!"
I was thinking the exact same thing. The piracy numbers definitely would favor them in the court case

[MaryH]

"The piracy numbers definitely would favor them in the court case"

Yes-but the number of gamers who have ruined their computers from SecuRom will definitely match their numbers!

[Kissamies]

Stardock hasn't just done well with GalCiv2 and SoaSE because they're great games (though they are) - but because they don't have any unreasonable anti-piracy protections, and gamers who are sick of having their games crippled by anti-piracy are willing to shell out for a company that doesn't treat them like automatic thieves.
Indeed, I have great respect for Stardock for this attitude and bought GalCiv2 partly because of this. I have been very tempted to buy SoaSE as well even though I generally hate RTS and didn't like the demo. I would never pirate their games.

[kennyinbmore]

"The piracy numbers definitely would favor them in the court case"

Yes-but the number of gamers who have ruined their computers from SecuRom will definitely match their numbers!

Are they going to poll everyone who bought the game to see how many people have problems vs how many don't? Are they going to take the time to sift through data from hundreds of thousand of computer users to determine that securom is the problem for every person complaining that securom is their problem? Securom does not break computers. I have several games with securom and I don't have problems with emulation software, antivirus software being turned off, firewalls being turned off or cd burning problems. I'm not the only one.That case has no shot. Software companies have a right to protect their property

[Safyre420]

And consumers have the right to prevent unwanted software being installed without their knowledge on their computers.

[eletrodj_SC]

They aren't worried? I really doubt...

[el_flel]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7772962.stm
Spore and Sims 2 are the two most pirated games of 2008 according to the BBC, with a reported 1.7 mil illegal downloads of Spore and 1.15 mil of Sims 2.

Obviously re the Sims 2 figures, a (fairly large) proportion of this can be attributed to the fact that Sims is such a massively popular game and therefore legal and illegal sales figures will be higher than other games, but Spore only came out in September and it still managed to top the list. I think it's a pretty safe assumption that SecuRom played a big part in this - I personally have had no problems with it so it doesn't put me off the games but I totally understand why people don't want it on their computers. Hopefully this will 'shock' EA into rethinking the DRM software they use for Sims 3 as otherwise they will have the same situation come February.

[slipknot93]

It's like people actually want piracy to hurt spore
:confused:

[JavaJulie]

It's like people actually want piracy to hurt spore
:confused:
I think it's more a matter of people hoping EA will see that draconian DRM schemes encourage piracy rather than discourage it. If Spore reaches record numbers of illegal downloads, some hope that it will make EA sit up and take notice that their approach is having the opposite of the intended effect.

[BR_FL]

It's like people actually want piracy to hurt spore
:confused:

That pretty much the situation to a lot of people. EA has been crappy to us with all the issues with the DRM and such. I wouldn't mind if EA falls under because of piracy. That won't happen though, so the disgrace to the Sims/Spore label can continue. :shrug:

[kennyinbmore]

I think it's more a matter of people hoping EA will see that draconian DRM schemes encourage piracy rather than discourage it. If Spore reaches record numbers of illegal downloads, some hope that it will make EA sit up and take notice that their approach is having the opposite of the intended effect.
It's not just EA anymore. Rockstar Games has jumped on the DRM bandwagon. To install the newly released Grand Theft Auto IV for pc(which includes securom), you have to install something called "The Rockstar Social Club" before you can install the game, then install the game, then activate it online, and to save your game you have to have or create a "Windows Live" account. My PC gaming days are quickly coming to an end, TS3 may actually be the last game I buy

[WorkYourMagic]

T.T my friend that got the pirated version[like... 1 week before it came to romania?] before i got the real one coudn't even log in the game so was stuck with the maxis creatures and the charles darwin he downloaded for the C. Creator... mebbe they updated it in all this time because i saw noone mentioned that

and when will game makers finnaly realise that there are a lot of people out there right now with the knowledge to crack the 8th next version of securom... this also encourages piracy like many other ppl said
and if what the above poster said it's true then i will stick to the 360 version... nothing worse then spyware on your laptop(rockstar social club and windows live sound soo spyware to me)

[Tom Duhamel]

Pirated versions of Spore cannot log in to an online account, because a genuine CD Key is required. So well, unless there is something I don't know of, those who pirated it missed one of the best feature of the game.

Now the feature presentation:

Whatever companies do to circumvent piracy, someone will disable it one way or another, often in a matter of days. Windows XP was a good example (it was available for download -- protection-free -- one week before the release), and Spore is just another one. If people aren't willing to pay, they won't, and nothing will change that. Why do they try to change that?

Years ago, when at was in college, I couldn't pay for games. Want it or not, I didn't have the money. Either I pirated them, or I didn't play them. Did pirating them toke money from the makers? No. But I did know it was wrong. As an author myself, I do know it hurts to realize people aren't paying. Now that I work full time, I find it's simply easier and quicker to pay for my games rather than d/l them. Now I can spend the little free time available to play the game rather then wait for the d/l to complete. But then, I know of people who have never stopped downloading. I'm not judging anyone, but at this point they *are* hurting the companies, as they would have the money available to pay for the games.

Piracy protection in games always been a problem for me. For years, we had to insert a CD in the drive every time we wanted to play. Well, that was too complicated for me. You know, my valuable seconds. So I always used no-cd patches to solve the problem, even though I had the original CD. I believe that I have the right to modify the things I buy anyway that suits me, as long as I don't attempt to distribute modified versions.

Spore doesn't require that the CD is in to play, that was good news to me. So for me, DRM is good news.

I bought Spore and installed it without any knowledge of that DRM thing. I heard about it a couple weeks later. The game have been installed on this computer for the last 3 months. I use my computer for stuff like software programming, writing, etc. To this day, I have not noticed any side effect of having Spore's DRM installed. So well, I don't quite understand what people are talking about.

[kennyinbmore]

Pirated versions of Spore cannot log in to an online account, because a genuine CD Key is required. So well, unless there is something I don't know of, those who pirated it missed one of the best feature of the game.



Actually that problem has been "cracked", so they're not missing anything

[kattenijin]

I bought Spore and installed it without any knowledge of that DRM thing. I heard about it a couple weeks later. The game have been installed on this computer for the last 3 months. I use my computer for stuff like software programming, writing, etc. To this day, I have not noticed any side effect of having Spore's DRM installed. So well, I don't quite understand what people are talking about.

For me, it wasn't so much that Sucurom was included, as I already got the damn thing from Sims2. It was the limited activations, the "one player/one game", and the impossibility of re-sale that got me. If I purchase your product, it is MINE. I'm not renting it, I'm buying it. The cracked version dosen't have any of those issues.

[SuicidiaParasidia]

most of the time i dont have any money. at all. as in, the government pays for my food, HEAP pays for most of the electricity bill, and i work hard for the money to pay for rent and the internet, and pet care.
now with those things in mind, if a pirated version of a game i thought looked like fun came out, i WOULD download it. or at least, if it wasnt impregnated with viruses [ as most of them are...which is why i usually just, sit and stare at it instead ], i would. and i would play it, and depending on if i liked it that much, the next time i come upon any spare cash, thats what it would go toward.
[ and basically i dont think piracy for that reason is wrong because, hey. there are a lot more fucked up things i could be doing than playing a video game in my spare time. i could go out and distribute drugs. i could go out and focus my energies on scamming major businesses. i could devote my energy to learning the ever malicious forms of hacking... so things could always be worse than pinching a few pennies from companies that are already rich. ]
piracy isnt always about playing for free just because you can. sometimes people dont have money to play, but still want to play it. that and about SPORE, id never get it anyway, since the whole RDM thing compromises my computers stability and security.
sorry but im not going to unhook my computer from the internet just to play a game. because id have to, if i wanted to be totally secure about not getting infected while all my defenses [ anti viruses, firewalls, etc ] are down. its like having to remove your ship from the galaxy while you sleep so a freakin comet wont come out of nowhere and screw you over or something.
but then i also download a lot of music rather than pay for it because IM NOT MADE OF MONEY and i cant go out and buy a $15-20 CD every time i hear a song i like. seriously.

and there will ALWAYS be people who do harmful things for the sake of doing harm to someone or something. what can we do about that? [ rhetorical. ]

anyway, good topic. good arguments on both sides.

[punkrockgoth1988]

I would like to add that EA may have boasted that, but it did create a hassle for buyers. I bought a legitimate copy from a Circuit City that was having a going out of business sale. When I came home and installed ot, I discovered that the registration code had already been used. My registration code, in an unopened package, had been used. I then had to make use of my Bro's digital camera to take pictures after having quite the product support explanation going on. I didn't manage to get it registered till the day after I bought it! And then I discovered that the things I was looking forward to in the game, hadn't been included. Oh and did I mention I got the Galactic Edition? Yeah. So I was pretty ticked off when I had to go through all that hassle to get the game registered.

Oh and for the talk on reasons behind piracy... Don't forget the people who want a game very badly but cannot, at that point in time, afford it. I've been in that boat before, but when I could finally afford them, I bought them legitimately. Sorry for resurrecting this whole thing.