Riots reported in London

[tizerist]

Anyone else near the unprecedented scenes going on in London?

I Just had to call up work, won't be coming in. First thing I saw when I got up at 5am was a looter taking golf clubs out of a bag and running off, leaving 6 unwanted golf clubs outside my house. Gathered them up and took them inside. My house has also got scaffolding all around it which concerns me. Rioters love a roof-top.
Westfield is a half-mile away and we shall see what happens I suppose.

It is an absolute warzone out there.

[kiwi_tea]

It's horrible, but the official reaction from the leaders who have cause this festering has been totally insane and sickening. I appeal, myself, to the words of Martin Luther King Jr in response to his fellow clergymen's criticisms:

"You deplore the demonstrations taking place in Birmingham. But your statement, I am sorry to say, fails to express a similar concern for the conditions that brought about the demonstrations."

- Martin Luther King Jr., Letter from a Birmingham Jail, 1963.

[maxon]

It sounds terrible - I hope things are brought under control today.

[Saturnfly]

Sounds incredibly scary. (The idea that someone could come and loot my sim games is enough to poop my pants).
Sincerely hope they get this shit under control, it's only a matter of time before an innocent life is lost at the hands of those anarchists.

Stay safe. xx

[Shoosh Malooka]

Riot all you want. Just leave the banks alone so they can later lend to the minorities whose teenage children where likely torching school buses. Save some for the minority businesses when this is all over. Give a word to Spike Lee when you see him.

[maxon]

Some numpty has blamed this on GTA. Can you believe it?

[tizerist]

One thing I knew, but I didn't know just how bad it was, is that the police are absolute pussies.
They stand there, in a line, with their shields up, standing, standing, then run away when the tactic doesn't work.
I wonder how quick the tear gas / weapons / violence would come out if it was a mainly white crowd. Very quickly I suspect.

[kiwi_tea]

From what I've read, the police have had a good hand in provoking and starting a lot of the violence. I'd hardly call them "pussies", a group of them were filmed beating a 16-year-old girl in pretty indefensible circumstances!

[smorbie1]

I'm so sorry for everyone in the line of that violence. It's got to be scary there. I've been reading about it, but I've yet to read what caused the rioting. Does anyone know?

[tizerist]

I'm so sorry for everyone in the line of that violence. It's got to be scary there. I've been reading about it, but I've yet to read what caused the rioting. Does anyone know?
Just opportunist attacks, apart from the first one. If all the police are in North London, then south London gets attacked. The police have pathetic numbers, so certain people are grabbing TV's and PS3's for free.

[crocobaura]

Stay safe. Hopefully things will calm down soon. It's scary things people do when they think they can get away with it.

[Skittlenut]

It's terrible, the rioting first started in London and they have a reason for that, a stupid one too. But now, they're happening everywhere. I had to cancel my day out with my boyfriend today because riots started in Liverpool, and the whole town center was closed off. Now there's rumors riots are going to be starting around 7pm in my town, Warrington, which isn't far from Manchester & Liverpool.
It's just getting out of hand.

Stay safe.

[Robodl95]

I didn't understand the severity of the riots until I read about them. Are they actually setting houses on fire? Stay safe guys, that's a really scary situation

[kiwi_tea]

Oh come on. Things like this can, and probably will, happen in every country as austerity measures and inhumane conditions worsen.

I mean, it would be the worst kind of arrogance to say, "It can't happen here" no matter where we are. It could happen in Melbourne. It could happen in Auckland. There was a time when Iran was a thriving nation, surely it couldn't happen there. There was a time when Greece was just another European country, surely it couldn't happen there. It does. It does because social pressures worsen, as people living on next to nothing while they hunt for jobs are forced to live on even less as the job market tightens, as tax dollars bail out wealthy executives and politicians while those who contribute the bulk of the tax are forced to pay through their noses, and in subtle ways - with reduced healthcare, with hospital waiting lists, with long hours on low pay, with intense stress and all that entails - with their lives. It happens in places for reasons - political and economic reasons - not just because there are packs of inherently nasty "hooded youths" lurking in alleys just waiting, waiting, waiting for the chance to set some cars on fire, but because politicians create conditions where youths who have little access to education, and no chance of making a decent life for themselves, and no chance of an edifying or tolerable job, lash out in confusion and even in a country like England in hunger.

This is as organic a reaction, as predictable a reaction, as any on earth. That is not to say I admire this violence, but I certainly understand why it is happening, and the greatest crime is not this violence: It is that we live under the rule of a tiny wealthy class who would have such people exist in such inhumane conditions.

[maxon]

Thank God thinhs like that do not happen in my country! I hope things are going to cool down soon.
Poland is it?

[smorbie1]

Kiwi is right; it can happen anywhere. I'm afraid this wave of economic problems has yet to crest and that there may be a lot of "safe" places set on fire. I pray that we all get through this safely and that there may be better times for us in the future. In the meantime, those of you in Britain have my prayers. Stay safe.

[Bellasaurus]

I'm so sorry for everyone in the line of that violence. It's got to be scary there. I've been reading about it, but I've yet to read what caused the rioting. Does anyone know?

"Riots in London and around the country over the last three days have seen widespread looting and buildings set alight. Dozens were left homeless after a night of riots on the streets of Tottenham on Saturday after a peaceful demonstration over the death of a man who was shot by police turned violent." - From BBC. And it turns out now that the man who was killed hadn't even shot at the police in the first place (which is why they shot him). Since then, it's been more about causing damage/setting fires and looting than actual protesting. People's homes are being burned and the fire brigade just can't keep up.

I'm in north London, and have heard so many rumours about where they're going to 'hit' next that from what I can understand, nowhere is entirely safe. I own a small business (2 health food shops in Crouch End) and it's entirely possible that my shops may not be there tomorrow. I'm trying not to worry, but it's difficult.

[smorbie1]

"Riots in London and around the country over the last three days have seen widespread looting and buildings set alight. Dozens were left homeless after a night of riots on the streets of Tottenham on Saturday after a peaceful demonstration over the death of a man who was shot by police turned violent." - From BBC. And it turns out now that the man who was killed hadn't even shot at the police in the first place (which is why they shot him). Since then, it's been more about causing damage/setting fires and looting than actual protesting. People's homes are being burned and the fire brigade just can't keep up.

I'm in north London, and have heard so many rumours about where they're going to 'hit' next that from what I can understand, nowhere is entirely safe. I own a small business (2 health food shops in Crouch End) and it's entirely possible that my shops may not be there tomorrow. I'm trying not to worry, but it's difficult.

OMG, I am so worried about all of you over there. Thanks for letting me know what caused it. Stay safe.

[Robodl95]

Thank God thinhs like that do not happen in my country! I hope things are going to cool down soon.
Something like it just happened 60 years ago... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pozna%C5%84_1956_protests#Aftermath

[smorbie1]

Civil unrest is horrible no matter where or under what circumstances it occurs. I think most of us are aware that Poland wasn't always free and civil rest occurred under the communist regime there. But right now it is Britain and that's where our focus should be. The fact that it has happened in Poland and elsewhere underscores my point that no place is "immune" to rioting and looting. Today, though, it is Britain and I pray for sanity and calm to return soon.

[kiwi_tea]

Pft. Poland was never "communist" in any theoretical sense. It was branded as such, but democratic control of politics is one of the most important defining features of communism. It's a contradiction in terms to talk of a "communism" where there are small number of powerbrokers ruling over a people. That's not communism, that's just dictatorship by a political regime. One can hardly call the UK or even the United States "democracies" when the majority of people's votes hold so little sway, and capital holders such enormous influence. Capital holders are the only people financed to even run and promote a viable party in the first place! And the British police have shot someone, and will probably shoot or at the very least injure many more. We can just hope for the very least. I'm not saying the two situations correlate in all regards, but both riots were caused as deprived people lashing out and were (/are being) beaten down by their very provocateurs.

But unfortunately, that lack of democratic control has to eventually bite the capital holders in the arse. It's a shame this is how it's happening: "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." - John F. Kennedy

There's a great deal of irony in who I'm quoting there, mind.

[kiwi_tea]

My point was really more that Poland was only ever under rule by Stalinists, not communists.

Wojtek, these riots BEGAN after the POLICE shot a man in a taxi for no apparent reason in front of many eyewitnesses. The police were the event that started this mess, and they seem to have attacked or at least provoked a group of peaceful protesters, leading to the footage of a 16-yo girl being beaten. The police presence is enormous, but the reality seems to be that the police have been abusing their position of authority and gun-carrying to intimidate and bully some very disadvantaged people into quite predictable rebellion. It's a little early to say that's the case, and no doubt it's more complicated.

But the police's brutality and their willingness to (quite possibly) have murdered an innocent person looks to have been the most glaring catalyst for the violent reaction.

[BL00DIEDHELL]

Sounds incredibly scary. (The idea that someone could come and loot my sim games is enough to poop my pants).
Sincerely hope they get this shit under control, it's only a matter of time before an innocent life is lost at the hands of those anarchists.

Stay safe. xx

Priorities http://i55.tinypic.com/2colnvt.gif

Got a few loved ones in the dangerous areas, such as friends in Manchester and London (not to mention family in London too :S), and my dad's ex's family live near Birmingham so a bit worried about them too. But HOPEFULLY everyone's keeping safe.

People really disgust me. As well as some of the idiot rioters posting photos of themselves with their loot up online (complete with face shown), Facebook users were creating groups to try and start more riots. With the only motivation being to 'show the southerners how it's done'.

WOOOO SENSELESS VIOLENCE! http://i56.tinypic.com/15ckncg.gif

[happymintchocolate]

I'm in enfield, I just realised mts hadn't mentioned anything in their news thread about this so i thought i'd check to see if anyone has posted anything. well done. I hope all london mts users and their families near any riot areas are safe and healthy :)

i have posted some news at tss about what's happening: http://thesimsupply.com/showthread.php?tid=1828

but a really good website for updates on what is happening in areas is this one: http://thewestlondoner.wordpress.com/

[dutch]

My sister moved to London just a few days before the riots. I hope she's safe.

[pinketamine]

I can't understand why some people think to seem that ALL rioters are brainless hooligans who just want to destroy and loot the city. Of course, in all riots there are idiots who just join because they want an excuse to destroy thing or rob, but there are also people who are SICK of seeing privileged ones in front of their face when they have nothing... and the little they have (free medical care, social services, etc.) is being slowly removed/privatized/whatever. I entirely agree with Kiwi_tea on this topic, I've clicked agree in every single post of them (him?, not sure and don't want to offend).

There have been (minor) riots and pacific protests in Spain in the last months, so I understand how some British people feel, Spain's situation is worse maybe, but anyway, things are getting shitty in some places.

I hope people stay safe and there aren't sad consequences on this.

[happymintchocolate]

I don't mean to be rude but this may not be the case in Spain (although i have not seen the news on it, I have only started watching the news due to the riots), but unfortunately in London it seems to be the case, what started out as peaceful protest outside a police station has turned into this, people have been murdered and the gangs/rioters are all aged between 8-20somthing year olds who just want to cause trouble, one even told a news reporter that they are doing this because they know they can get away with it and do what they want. Peoples homes and businesses have been burnt to the ground because of them and their thoughtless actions. I think if you saw the live footage and reports and interviews like I have about the situation you might think differently, although I am not saying your opinion is wrong and I agree that you are allowed your own opinion but being in it and having the place you have grown up in destroyed makes you view this all differently. I hope my ranting hasn't offend you.

[happymintchocolate]

One thing I knew, but I didn't know just how bad it was, is that the police are absolute pussies.
They stand there, in a line, with their shields up, standing, standing, then run away when the tactic doesn't work.
I wonder how quick the tear gas / weapons / violence would come out if it was a mainly white crowd. Very quickly I suspect.

unfortunately the law states they are not allowed to do this and riot police can only hit if someone is going to hit them.

[Shoosh Malooka]

I can't understand why some people think to seem that ALL rioters are brainless hooligans who just want to destroy and loot the city.

Of course it is unrealistic to say ALL in most cases. The pundits iit are reflecting on the idea of riots more than anything else immediate. This is about race and about police abusing their power. Before anything, the police shot Mark Duggan, a suspected black gang member in a cab, and the witnesses denied he was armed. The police claimed he fired first, hitting the radio, but ballistics experts traced it to the policeman's gun. Long resentment began to stir to action afterwards.

Later, a small band of anti-police protesters ( hooligans ) were harassing the police and a black 16 year old girl threw a champagne bottle at them. In return, the police turned her head into rainbow sherbet and it was recorded and distributed. THIS is the excuse for 'let's tear down our own neighborhood?' Yeah, great plan. Jolly good.

Let me tell you something: This idea of people joining together to fight the good fight against oppression is exciting, romantic, noble, etc. The truth is that Duggan's supporters never intended violence, and the majority of these hooded hooligans are teenage gangs hooking up on Facebook and other social networks, organizing their thrill schedules of looting and vandalizing, inciting more riots, and posting pictures of themselves posing with their televisions and other booty.

They can blame it on oppression, but that's some teenage bullshit excuse for some romping and stomping. So please, it's almost as if you're trying to tell me hooligans don't like riots.

[katy perry]

I live in the North of Scotland but its totally unbelievable that this could happen in this country. The lates reports say that the riots are spreading to Birmingham and Manchester. Sounds more like civil war than a riot so scary.

[MsScribble]

I think there's so many layers to this. I hope its ends soon without people being seriously hurt or killed.
I'm scared that this is Australia's future. People are getting incredibly stressed, angry, and pushed against the wall.

[happymintchocolate]

unfortunatly MsScribble people have already died, two young girls were burnt alive in a house fire and a person was shot and died in hospital. A police officer was stabbed and a man got a heart attack, although i'm not sure that they last two have died i know the news was calling it critical

10/08/2011, 11.07: Just saw the news, three men died in a hit and run accident

[sandymdh]

The funniest thing I saw was an interview with a protester (yes the teenage type in a hoodie). They asked why he joined the riot. Amazingly he came up with what he thought was a clever answer, "because of taxes", to which the interviewer asked "don't you have to have a job to pay taxes". He just stared blankly at them. I'm sure there were genuine protesters who are probably quickly trying to distance themselves from these other idiots. As are the family of the man who was shot - I don't blame them. As if it wasn't bad enough to lose a family member, however innocent he may have been (there seems to be some debate in the media), they now have riots going on around them supposedly in their name. There are faults with the UK police but at least we don't have a police force where guns are carried as a norm and there seems to be a whole ethos of 'shoot first - ask questions later'. This is a rare occurrence. As for their tactics now I think they are so beholden to 'human rights' legislation they have their hands tied.
Unemployment... there is no shortage of jobs for many skilled staff. There are the odd exceptions but it is unskilled and lower level work where the seems to be shortages, in my area anyway. As for the comment about lack of access to education I quite strongly disagree. To be in a good employment situation you do not need a degree, so I'm not talking student loans etc etc. For normal, practical college courses there are plenty available, the government has pumped funds into courses and apprenticeships which are provided free to those on low incomes/benefit. I work in this sector and have some great kids from awful backgrounds achieving way beyond their expectations. Sadly we have a job filling the courses. The levels of apathy are ridiculous. I blame the parents too - the whole "It was good enough for me (to live off benefits all my life) attitude. I just can't understand it...I hope my kids do well and will encourage them to do the best they can. I know a qualification may not equal a job but it certainly helps and the worst thing an employer can see on a C.V. are periods of inactivity. Ironically it is the older people who have been made redundant who seem to be struggling the most but I haven't seen them out on the streets!
Families... it's got to a point where many working families are no better off than those on benefits. I jokingly once said that the only plus to us BOTH working was the pride in going to work and that really wasn't far off the truth. Can't see the families out on the streets either! I have the luxury of living in the middle of the countryside (though at £1.35 for a litre of petrol it doesn't feel luxurious) so am not affected but I hope this calms down soon. I don't support it but I do feel like the people of this country have taken a lot of extra pressure in the last year or so without complaint and now we hear news of us having to help bailout other EU countries financially who haven't instigated such severe austerity measures. It feels like we're being persecuted again. It's a shame that we have youths rioting when it should be adults demonstrating in a more dignified manner.

[Bellasaurus]

Thankfully my shops are still here !! Woo!!

It seems to be calming down in London, still loads of police walking around, but I'm hoping we're through the worst of it down here. My thoughts are now with those in Brum and Manc.

[smorbie1]

Thankfully my shops are still here !! Woo!!

It seems to be calming down in London, still loads of police walking around, but I'm hoping we're through the worst of it down here. My thoughts are now with those in Brum and Manc.

Oh, I'm SO GLAD you're shops are safe. I was worried about that for you. I'm happy it seems to be calming down in your area even though it seems other areas are heating up. Maybe the calmness there indicates that the tide is turning and it's almost over.

[simsample]

I live in the North of Scotland but its totally unbelievable that this could happen in this country.
But London, Manchester and Birmingham aren't in your country.

[brillo_pad]

But London, Manchester and Birmingham aren't in your country.

We like to switch from being either England and Scotland or The United Kingdom when it suits us.. We were the UK when Andy Murray was playing Wimbledon, and for some reason Scotland wants to include itself in the UK for this rioting.. go figure.

They set the party shop in Clapham Junction on fire.. I am not pleased.. my friend lives round there, but luckily she got called to service for the MET..

[Simsica]

As for their tactics now I think they are so beholden to 'human rights' legislation they have their hands tied.

Human rights is written in qoutation marks for you? Are you serious? :blink: Are you even aware what you just condoned with this way of thinking and talking? Do you even know how long - measured in centuries of bloody struggle and suffering - many humans fought for the legitimacy of that concept?

Things like this happen precisely because human rights aren't respected. Wake up and smell the ugly world you live in. It stinks, and it's going to stink much more really soon.

I'm not frightened by any riots. I can hide from those. What scares me are people like this: ready to give up centuries of struggle after a single event that, by the way, started out as a protest against unlawful behavior of the state officials that didn't respect the human rights of a taxi driver. And they are supposed to protect citizens. Yes, even the criminals. They have no right to shoot or fight the rioters *for a reason*. Their tactics is purposefully weak, because if it weren't, soon there would be no rule of law, but of guns and terror.


Oh, and yes, please blame it on the parents, why don't you? While you're at it, why don't you blame it on the working mothers, cause this is where this kind of argument inevitably ends up, if it doesn't take a quick turn into the "lazy mothers" lane.

As for living on benefits - UK must be one **** of a country if it's handing out benefits so high a family can live off of them. In my country it comes to about 20% of average wages, and average wages is by itself not enough to sustain a family.

Social problems can't be looked at as if they were any single individual's fault. Unfortunately, the entire world has gone crazy. Your country's largest corporations have taken their jobs to places with cheaper work force, and your poor are getting poorer. It's happening everywhere, in every country. It's what's called "globalization". People have no perspective for any kind of future.

And don't worry, soon "human rights" will be a thing of the past. Cause the entire world seems to be bent on erradicating them.

[sandymdh]

Of course I wasn't condemning 'human rights'. It is not just a phrase but a concept, a collection of theories, a movement and a variety of legislation depending on where you live and that's why I used the inverted commas. I don't know where you live but in the UK we do seem to avoid any kind of confrontation because of it. The issue of disciplining children for example has inevitably come up repeatedly here for the last few days. A father of one of the rioters was interviewed and said - What do you want me to do? Smack him - I can't. Lock him in - I can't. Any form of physical or emotional chastising is condemned. Of course these kids have human rights which mean they must not be abused, physically harmed, bullied etc but there is a complete lack of discipline as nobody is quite sure where the lines are and when they cross them so they just avoid them completely. That is why they now think they can get away with anything and there are 11 year olds walking out of court laughing about what they've done!
An example - my son was attacked out of school by a boy in his year waiting for the bus home. As technically while they are still in uniform the school wanted to be responsible for the boy's punishment. I left it with them. His punishment? To sit in a room with my son for a whole morning to 'sort things out'! So 6 months later the boy did it again. As the school were useless I reported it straight to the police expecting a stronger punishment- it is assault after all. It would have been a case of 'actual bodily harm' in UK terms if he had been an adult. So the police took 3 days to come and see us and another 3 weeks to go and talk to the boy. That was it. The boy still got the same bus and bullied my son every day. One day my partner took the bus home with my son. He didn't make himself known and just observed. When the boy started on my son he went over and told him to leave him alone. Guess what? We were told off by the police for that as 'leave him alone' was obviously too harsh!
I don't think anyone wants police to fire at rioters. Even plastic bullets, which they are discussing, seems way too extreme. But SOME force needs to be used.
As for the benefits system - as a single mother I had my rent and council tax (for my property) paid for me plus about £200 a week for me and my 3 children at home, free meals at school, free prescriptions, free school transport etc. It worked out at about £400 a week. That's after tax what? £20,000 a year? Or £25,000 dollars - yes the benefits system is a joke. Also the UK has one of the highest average childcare costs on the world. Luckily as I have a partner I can now afford to work but we're not massively better off as I have to work within school hours and we have petrol/parking costs. Like I said - we do it for a few extra pennies but mainly the pride of going to work.
So obviously I won't blame single or working mothers as I've been both and it 's a no-win situation either way. You always get the blame for something.
The point I was making though is that MOST of the rioters had no ethical or moral reason to be doing what they were. They were fighting and looting for the sake of it. It's a shame because you are right - the taxi driver shouldn't have been shot and I'm sure there will be an enquiry. The genuine protesters' arguments have been overshadowed by the atrocities we have seen this week.