Skyrim: Stormcloak or Imperial, and why?

[Gwonlyeog]

I'm a Stormcloak, through and through. I have a few valid reasons and one... weirdass reason. ANYHOO, ON TO THE HATE!

1. The Nords have every right to have Skyrim to theirselves. I think of it this way. Say you are an American (and if you are, you are) and you live in your country, just doing whatever the hell you want, because you have the freedom. You're worshiping with your own religion (like the Nords are doing with Talos) and then China (Imperials) storm the country, and hurt you, possibly even KILL you, because you're worshiping whatever the hell you want to. It's punishable by death if you openly worship Talos in Imperial-run cities (which, in my game, there is none of). We really wouldn't want to be killed for having your own opinion.

2. THE GODDAMNED IMPERIALS HAVE NO RIGHT TO BE IN SKYRIM TO DICTATE IT! Again, with China. Let's say they just come in and take office. THEY ARE NOT AMERICAN. THEY CANNOT GOVERN THE COUNTRY. I honestly have no issue with the furries and Orsimers being in Skyrim, but they shouldn't have ultimate power. They don't belong to the country, they don't get to dictate it, easy as 'dat.

3. It's like the Scottish-British Civil War. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wars_of_Scottish_Independence) The Brits invaded Scotland, dictated absolutely everything they did, even though they don't belong to that country.

4. Ulfric is awesome. That's the main reason I joined xD

So... what about y'all?

[Synthesis]

I often find myself playing devil's advocate, though in this case, among my circle of friends, my opinion is actually the majority on by far.

So, here: Imperial, quite easily.

1. The Nords, like everyone else, aren't indigenous to Skyrim. They're not even the oldest residents--the Forsaken are. They represent the majority population, but as it happens, but if we're making an assumption on the basis of "Skyrim being for the Nords," what about the Forsaken? You know, those people who the Nords, and then everyone else (Imperials included) decided to screw over? Where is their representation? The Nord's have a reasonable point about complaining about persecution for their worship of Talos, but it falls kind of flat when being a Forsaken, or worshipping their older gods, gets you thrown in a jail or killed by the Nord majority.

2. Several Nords have, though conscious effort, become Emperors of the entire country on occassion. Nordic secession isn't necessarily an unreasonable idea, but they have to acknowledge that they've already deeply involved their monarchies into the imperial system. You can't have both. Likewise, if the Nords want to leave the Empire, that's not an unreasonable position, but they should acknowledge that the Imperial bureaucracy, and the Imperials themselves, should be under no obligation to fight the Dominion in Skyrim over Nord culture. It might be entirely possible for the Nords to win a long, full-out war against the Dominion, but in the meantime, the Imperials should be free to stop sending their sons and daughters to die as soldiers and officers in a kingdom that apparently doesn't want them (but has no problem ruling them through royal marriages).

3. Frankly, the blatant Stormcloak racism? It's a little off-putting. The ghettos for the other races in Windhelm are embarrassing and flat-out shameful, and considering how bad the Khajit and Argonians treated everyone else in the game, that's saying a lot. Comparing the situation to Solitude or Whiterun (ex-Imperial capital before a bunch of mages sunk it into the ocean) is literally night and day. Nordic independence might have very good political grounds, but the Stormcloaks are probably among the worst, if not the worst, to be its advocates. I don't doubt they're fighting for Nordic independence, but if the outcome of that is that all the other residents of Skyrim--who, like the Nords, are not indigenous apparently--get to live in slums and ghettos, to hell with that.

4. Ulfric's probably about as charismatic as the guy who runs the odds-and-ends store in Whiterun. Slightly less. Is he a decent military commander? Possibly. A really loud shouter. A great killer of the indigenous. A good political leader? Not really, given he deliberately ignores civilian matters as far as I can tell. The Empire distributes power among a high Jarl (a queen) and a general--in other words, military and civilian. It's actually possible that Ulfric never deliberately created ghettos in Whiterun, he just never cared while his racist commanders elected to do it.

That's just my take on it. I've only watched people finish the Stormcloak campaign, and it doesn't make a very convincing case to me. Of course, I say this as an Taiwanese national (and an atheist, like the plurality of Taiwanese), which effects my attitudes on national deliminiation. I should tip my hat to Bethesda for coming up with a narrative that has convinced a lot of people either way.

[coltraz]

Personally its hard for me to side with either, so I tend to remain neutral except in the case of my Imperial character, who's joined the Imperials, and in the case of my Nord character, who's joined the Stormcloaks. But both sides are kind of nasty. I've said it before and I'll say it again - I wish you could end up LEADING either side and changing some of the less savory laws.

[Oaktree]

I don't like either side, either. I generally go with the Stormcloaks because I'm very opposed to imperialism and large centralized governments, but the Nords aren't right, either. They can't rightfully prevent other races from living there, especially if they were born there and Skyrim is their homeland. Beyond that, racism is just distasteful. Every time I'm around Ulfric, I want to yell at him. He was sympathetic when he was gagged at the beginning, but once he opens his mouth, he turns into a moron.

[Gwonlyeog]

I often find myself playing devil's advocate, though in this case, among my circle of friends, my opinion is actually the majority on by far.

So, here: Imperial, quite easily.



But wouldn't you be pissed off if someone just stormed into your country, and said, "Oh, yeah, I don't care if you're an Atheist, worship [insert religion here] or I'm going to beat you until..."

I honestly don't find Ulfric to be 'racist'. When Free-Winter whats-his-balls complained about Ulfric never helping the other races and only other Nords, I honestly find it legit. America (Nords) won't ALWAYS help their allies (the other races), but they look after their own.

Ulfric actually is a really nice person. I've watched people play as Nazis... er, Imperials, and when they are about to kill him, Tullius says, "Skyrim doesn't belong to you, Ulfric."
He replies with, "No, but I... but I belong to her." I mean, that was... beautiful, to say the least.

He really cares about his army. I go to Windhelm at least 15 minutes to see if the other Cloaks need help and to kick food off of the table. I honestly don't know how ANYONE could side with the Legion. They and their gay Nazi Thalmor have literally torn apart Skyrim for the Nords.

And the Stormcloaks didn't try to chop off your head in the beginning, did they?

:/

[Axe Gaijin]

Tiber Septim >>>> Ulric Stormcloak

And if there is any faction in the Elder Scrolls that can be compared to the current Chinese government, then it is the Aldmeri Dominion, not the Imperials.
The Nords want to regain their freedom at any cost, but forget that they'll stand alone should the Dominion come knocking. The Imperials are desperate to cling on to a united Empire that is crumbling underneath their feet and they are at their wits end.

Let's not forget that before the Oblivion crisis the Septim Empire was mostly a peacefull Empire and that a united Empire is a strong Empire... If the Akavir will come a'knocking, then what? (Which is exactly what I'd do for the next instalment of the series)

[Synthesis]

But wouldn't you be pissed off if someone just stormed into your country, and said, "Oh, yeah, I don't care if you're an Atheist, worship [insert religion here] or I'm going to beat you until..."

I honestly don't find Ulfric to be 'racist'. When Free-Winter whats-his-balls complained about Ulfric never helping the other races and only other Nords, I honestly find it legit. America (Nords) won't ALWAYS help their allies (the other races), but they look after their own.

Ulfric actually is a really nice person. I've watched people play as Nazis... er, Imperials, and when they are about to kill him, Tullius says, "Skyrim doesn't belong to you, Ulfric."
He replies with, "No, but I... but I belong to her." I mean, that was... beautiful, to say the least.

He really cares about his army. I go to Windhelm at least 15 minutes to see if the other Cloaks need help and to kick food off of the table. I honestly don't know how ANYONE could side with the Legion. They and their gay Nazi Thalmor have literally torn apart Skyrim for the Nords.

And the Stormcloaks didn't try to chop off your head in the beginning, did they?

:/

No, they just like to put one of the races I can play in ghettos or let them be killed by bandits as part of their police policy.

It's pretty bad that the Nords can't worship Talos because of a political decision on the part of multiple governments. But how is it any better when the Nords kill Forsaken for worshipping their gods? Or not being Nords or Imperials? How exactly is that somehow more tolerant and open minded?

As much as I disagree with your analogy, Americans guarantee the rights of foreign nationals in their country. Are you aware of this? I'm a foreign national in America, and the likelihood of me being arbitrarily arrested is pretty slim. It's not impossible (say, I was an unregistered Mexican national), but it's still unlikely. Last I checked, the Imperials "look out for their own kind" by your definition. They just don't resort to ghettos.

If you think people complaining about being forced into ghettos because Ulfric thinks Argonians are icky and he's now in charge have a baseless argument, that's a fair opinion, but one I wouldn't share. is Imperialism bad? Yes, yes it is. Chinese encroachment on Tibet is a very common grievance, and not without base. But guess what--if you say the Chinese are wrong, that also means you have to acknowledge that Poland was wrong when they decided it would be beneficial to invade west Belarus and make everyone Polish or send them to jail. Or when the Soviet Union annexed the Baltic Republics during the Second World War. Or when the United States overthrew the rulers of Hawaii when they annexed it. Saying "It's so unfair for the Imperials to subject the Nords to their policies and ban a major part of their faith," and then, "Yeah, well, when the Stormcloaks force other races in ghettos it's okay, because, you know, Nords," is not a consistent argument, in my opinion.

The point being? The Nords are not Americans. The Dominion is not China either--at least, no more than it is America (a country which has actively occupied of multiple nations in Central Asia), or Georgia (annexed independent Ossetia and Abkhazia in the early 1990s) or many other countries. The politics of Skyrim are ingrained more in fantasy than reality, and modern political analogies are not that good, IMO.

[kiwi_tea]

If it's a choice between nationalism and imperialism I'll obviously choose the only morally tolerable choice: Neither.

I will side with that old witch, Anise, who lives in the cabin. Goodness knows what she's up to, but she's cool.

[Synthesis]

Nationalism--the idea of being entitled to a nation along share cultural identity--is so incredibly broad I wouldn't label it negative inherently. I wouldn't argue that Polish nationalists weren't entitled to their struggle for independence from Tsarist Russia. Or that Belarusian patriots were entitled to their independence from the Republic of Poland 10 years later. National struggles are tied to the idea of political freedom and social development--they're a huge part of the human tendency to abandon monarchy/familial governments mandated by religious tradition. They do entail violence, particularly in revolutions, but that's how those monarchies rose in the first place (and practically any form of government).

Imperialism, by its nature, is a subjugation through force. But as far as I can tell, in ES, this isn't happening with the Nords, from a military aspect anyway. Even if it is called "the Empire", the actual act of actual imperialism, if it happened, happened centuries before the game started. Back when Skyrim became part of the empire, and a Nord became the first emperor. You could make the case that the Dominion is engaging in (often ineffectual) cultural imperialism, and that the Empire is complicit, though. The Nords did the same thing when they wiped the Forsaken off the map, except they actually succeeded.

EDIT: Not a Nord "by blood" (I guess by Ulfric's standars too), but a man raised as a Nord who identified as one, from what the wiki says.

[Gwonlyeog]

The point being? The Nords are not Americans. The Dominion is not China either--at least, no more than it is America (a country which has actively occupied of multiple nations in Central Asia), or Georgia (annexed independent Ossetia and Abkhazia in the early 1990s) or many other countries. The politics of Skyrim are ingrained more in fantasy than reality, and modern political analogies are not that good, IMO.

I'm not LITERALLY comparing them, I'm just taking two countries that kinda butt heads with each other. .-.

[Synthesis]

Yeah, as I said, it can be kind of hard to equate the kingdoms in Skyrim with modern nation states--a big issue in high-fantasy settings. Not that it matters much lands of kings and priests.

[Shoosh Malooka]

It's not hard for some people.

The Thalmor had the Imperials (The empire) ban Talos worship and harshly punish
anyone that still worships Talos. Which cause a huge problem with the Nords. Basically,
after the ban was enforced, the Stormclocks (Nords/Skyrim) had enough of outsiders
(Empire & Thalmor) dictating their lives & destroying their culture little by little.

Talos - The Elder Scrolls Wiki

As reality stand point,
- Thalmor (elfs) are jews
- Skyrim is Europe
- Nords are Whites
- Talos is Christianity
- Stormclocks are White nationalists.
- Empire is the European Union.

Yep, I stand corrected, Bretons are humans mixed with elves, my mistake.

I guess I am not geek after all.

Redguards are also considered humans in TES, but since I don't consider blacks in real life as humans, same goes for TES.

I actually really like how Skyrim is an analogy on our struggle.

Skyrim is a great place to vent some anger.
I do wish the bards didn't suck so much, though.

^That junk is from Stormfront about Skyrim.

[ButchSims]

There is ickyness on BOTH sides here, no one is completely right or wrong, but has a lot of shades of grey. Initially, I felt a bit more sympathy for the Stormcloaks, simply because the game starts with the Empire trying to cut your head off just because you were in the wrong place at the wrong time. But Ulfric may make grand speeches about how he loves Skyrim, and is fighting for his people, while at the same time ignoring the plight of any race other than Nords in his city, while at the same time decimating the Forsaken, who lived on the land before being booted out by the Nords in the first place.

The Empire is most akin to the Roman Empire in it's declining years, It's power weakened by petty bureaucrats and wars against the Thalmor. It lost the Septim line, and thus cannot light the Dragonfires, so the barrier to Oblivion is weakening. It has it's religious policy dictated by a foreign power, which doesn't sit well with the population. A civil war looms, and the simply do not have the manpower to put it down for good. They ceded the Kingdoms of the Bosmer and the Kajeet races, Hammerfall felt betrayed by them, and they are losing ground all over. So, they are beginning to employ less savory tactics.

The Thalmor are simply religious extremists and use both Open and Secret Inquisitions to terrorize the populous, in the narrow minded conceit that Elves are just better than everyone else, since they consider themselves direct decendents of the Gods, and thus are better equipped to make desicions for everyone, regardless of how unwanted their influence may be.

Sometimes, I just want to hop on a Dragon and wipe them ALL out.

[Synthesis]

It's not hard for some people.







^That junk is from Stormfront about Skyrim.

Well, that's scary.

Especially from the standpoint of Jews controlling religious expression in (Western) Europe, and apparently having beaten the military might of the EU.

With their, you know, Jewish Army. Or something.

No mention of Dragons, apparently. Kind of a deal.

[Gwonlyeog]

1. I’m here to first point out that Ulfric isn’t a racist. “BUT HE KEEPS ALL THE DUNMER IN THE SLUMS,” you may argue. Um, okay. He offered them SHELTER from what was happening in their homeland. If he had hated them, he would’ve taken them totally out of the city. As the ALTMER in WINDHELM’S MARKETPLACE says, “The Dark Elves are too proud to realize the situation.” Sadri (a Dark Elf) has his own store. If Ulfric had hated them so much, he would’ve got all angry and pushed him back into the slums. And again, he has an ALTMER in the marketplace. The THALMOR are ALTMERS! And yet HE has one working in his city. Because he trusts her, she says herself she’s proven herself useful, thus gaining the trust of the Nordfolk and Ulfric himself.
“BUT HE DOESN’T ALLOW KHAJIITS IN THE CITY!” Um, yeah… No Hold allows Khajiit’s in the city. I must admit, though, that there ARE no Argonians in his city. That’s because they tend to live more near the water (that’s why there are Argonians in Solitude; they’re a water-based city).

2. The Empire really has no place in Skyrim. If they didn’t notice, Cyrodiil, the seat of the Empire, is directly BELOW Skyrim. It’s like the Scottish-British Invasion, or the War of Scottish Independence. For those who don’t know about this (or who don’t pay attention in Social Studies), in the years 1296 to 1328, there was a war between Scotland and Britain. Britain (Cyrodiil) had invaded Scotland (Skyrim) and forced their Empire down the throats of the Scottish, who had no interest of really joining their Empire. The Brits were like “LOL NO LET’S FIGHT” and so began a war. And I suppose I’ll pop in the American Civil War. BEFORE YOU GET ANGRY ABOUT THIS: Slavery was the heritage of the South. That doesn’t mean it was right (I think it was really horrible, don’t pin me a racist, ‘cause I’m not), but it was their heritage. The Nords had their heritage: Talos. The Empire (North) started a war to oppress their heritage. BUT LOOK. I do NOT think slavery was OKAY. I just believe that the South had their heritage.

3. OPPRESSION IS NOT GOOD.
For those who don’t know what oppression is, here is the definition:
1. The exercise of power or authority in an UNJUST manner.
2. An act of instance of oppressing.
3. The state of being oppressed.
4. The feeling of being burdened, mentally or physically, by troubles, ADVERSE CONDITIONS, anxiety, etc.

Oppress is another form of the word, and the most prominent definition for it is this: To burden with cruel or unjust impositions or restraints; subject to a burdensome and/or harsh exercise of authority or power; totalitarianism.

WELL WELL WELL, let’s look up totalitarianism, shall we?

TOTALITARIANISM:
1. The practice and principles of a totalitarian regime.
2. ABSOLUTE CONTROL by the state or a governing branch of a highly centralized institution.
3. The character or quality of an autocratic or authoritarian individual, group, or GOVERNMENT.

Wow, that sure does remind ME of the Empire! How about we look up Imperialism next?

IMPERIALISM:
1. The policy of extending the rule or authority of an Empire or nation, or of acquiring and holding colonies and dependencies.
2. Advocacy of Imperial interests.
3. An Imperial system of government
4. The policy of so uniting the separate parts of an Empire with separate governments as to secure for certain purposes for a single state.

HOT DAMN! Totalitarianism and imperialism are synonymous! And, y’know, totalitarianism really doesn’t sound too pleasant. And it’s damn near the same thing as imperialism. The Stormcloak’s are NATIONALISTS. Call me Webster, because here comes ANOTHER definition.

NATIONALIST:
1. A person (or group) devoted to nationalism.
2. A member of a political group advocating or fighting for national independence.

Oh dear, another word.

NATIONALISM:
1. National spirit or aspirations.
2. Devotion or loyalty to ones country.
3. Excessive patriotism, chauvinism
4. The desire for national advancement or independence
5. The policy or doctrine of asserting the interests of ones nation, viewed as separate from the interests of the other nations or the common interests of other nations.
Ok, ok, you want me to go define ‘chauvinism’, fine.

CHAUVINISM:
1. Zealous and aggressive patriotism, blind military glory enthusiasm.
2. Biased devotion to any group, attitude, or cause.
In all honesty, I believe that chauvinism isn’t too horrible. It’s fighting for what you believe for. Yes, I know it says blind, some Stormcloak’s join the bandwagon because Ulfric. xD
4. “BUT UR KINGG KUYLEED URSS!!!!!!1111eleven!”
lolno. Ulfric challenged Torygg to a fair duel, and he used any means at his disposal. Torygg DID NOT say no. He AGREED. Ulfric won their battle fair and square.
That’s about it.
:D

[IzzyBess]

Empire doesn't look like totalitarianism. Seriously. At least not in real life. Definitions always look so simple. There is a difference between totalitarianism and imperialism.

I've went through main quest only once and I've chosen Empire side because Ulfric annoyed me lol. And isn't it the part of Elder Scrolls series to work with people who tried to kill you? Remember Oblivion? Empire did put you in prison but you have to save them all later ;)

[Artimis]

I am a stromcloak but I am thinking (with some evilness) to join the imperials as the stormcloaks have no love me as I am a elf and they go all the time that skyrim is nord aka human only. I have a feeling that even if I do help take back skyrim they will either kill me or banish for being a dark elf. In my opinion I think that they have their good points and their bad points but they seem to be more friendly if you or non elf, correct me if I am worng on that.

[Shoosh Malooka]

There seems to be no end of Empire vs starmcloaks discussion on the official forums while the intended larger threat of dragons and Alduin is ignored. Nice job, Bethesda.

[Artimis]

Even after solving the dragon criris their are still dragons around the game. If I stay with the stormcloaks and take soltuide their are going to be very few guards as I have killed most with unrelenting force ror fun and I think that most of imperails are not that bright.

[nhayes17]

3. It's like the Scottish-British Civil War. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wars_of_Scottish_Independence) The Brits invaded Scotland, dictated absolutely everything they did, even though they don't belong to that country.


I'm sorry but what is the Scottish-British civil war?? Also how do you think Americans got to America?

[Synthesis]

First off, I for one enjoy how when the Imperials allow non-Imperials to live alongside Nords, it's some sort of patronizing gesture.

You know, like they do in all of the major cities.But when the Stormcloaks do it, it's some sort powerful, forgiving gesture.

You realize you missed a really obvious point, right? Tolerating other races in what is your land--in the sense that you politically dominate it, and you are largely the most populous (though not everywhere in it) isn't some sort of benevolent justification for all other behavior. It's common decency. Because, incidentally, the Nords decided to kill all the Forsworn (in retrospect, me calling them the 'Forsaken' was pretty funny) and drive them off their land, with the Empire's blessing. So that's honorable, but when the Empire encourages foreigners (you know, like the Nords originally were) not to live in ghettos, it's somehow evil. That's a pretty lousy argument, in my opinion. It's like how you cited the Khajit as part of your argument, even though I already acknowledged they were the victims of bigotry (it just happens they, like all non-Nords, feel more animosity towards the Stormcloaks). If Skyrim was some sort of paranoid racist kingdom where all foreigners were immediately suspect--conveniently ignoring the Nords, because they killed everyone who called them foreigners--it might make more sense. Except it's not. The Stormcloaks, perhaps inadvertently, just happen to be trying to steer it in that direction (and failing, since what do you know, not even all Nords agree with state-mandated racism).

Next, you also realize, by your own definition, the Stormcloaks--who are creating a new government, around their own monarch, rather than the largely symbolic system the game constantly reminds you the Empire had ("Before you came around, the Empire was nice and lazy.") also fits totalitarianism, right? But wait, the Stormcloaks just demand loyalty from their own cities and threaten violence against those who object on the basis of waging war! The Stormcloaks are autocratic? What a shock!

Since you have so much fun with definitions, how about we look a bit closer at that word: "autocrat."

noun
1. an absolute ruler, especially a monarch who holds and exercises the powers of government as by inherent right, not subject to restrictions.
2. a person invested with or claiming to exercise absolute authority.
3. a person who behaves in an authoritarian manner; a domineering person. (dictionary.com)

Well, let's see--whereas in Solitude, the Queen and ranking officer (a general) have to engage in give-and-take to conduct the war, negotiate with the other powers and try and not kill one another, Ulfric enjoys far higher concentration as high king, absolute monarch (by killing his predecessor). He absolutely acts in a domineering person. Wow! Ulfric is an autocrat...in fact, he's the autocrat. Tulius and Elisif, put together, would have trouble rivaling his personal power--separately, they can't compare (with Tulius' authority limited to military conduct and Elisif both a symbolic leader and head of state over the civilian governmnet).

Here, let's do it again with your definition of nationalism: the Nords in Imperial service, by their own statements, have absolute devotion to their country (the Empire), because of its history, are fervently patriotic. They absolutely desire national advancement (namely, that of the Empire over the Dominion), and accordingly, assert those positions over others (the Stormcloaks haven't been here for hundreds of years--tough cookie). You'll notice I never questioned the loyalty of Nords in Stormcloak service, just their bigotry (and unlike you, I consider said racial bigotry negative but won't uniformly blame all Stormcloaks for it). Another interesting fact: even if your greatest leader didn't personally murder someone, your nation can still be the target of loyalty, reverence, or fervor. I doubt that this surprises even you. By now, you've figured out that your definitions of Chauvenism apply very easily to the Stormcloaks (thanks to Ulfric's cult of personality, which is far stronger than that of Elisif or Tulis--for god sakes, his surname is the name of the political movement. Even and Lenin and Reagan waited till after they were dead) alongside the Empire. I'm not going to go through those unless asked.

So let's look at those definitions--what do you know! Just because you don't have "empire" in your name, doesn't mean you aren't practicing neocolonialism! When killing people on behalf of the Empire is bad, wiping out the indigenous population on behalf of a race is still bad.! What a shock! And here I thought that was a prerequisite!

(See how easy that was? That's about as convincing as your definitions argument was.)

[FistsOfDissent]

I went with the Stormcloaks, not for any political reasons but because I liked their armour and he imperials tried to cut my head off. Plus Ulfric Stormcloak is badass and is voiced by Vladimir Kulich. I suppose the whole rebels fighting invaders trying to suppress their culture thing appealed to me a bit, although the racism did bother me a bit. But ultimately it's just a game, I'm not going to take it too seriously. I still wanted the Stormcloaks and Empire to team up and fight the AD though.

OP, I think you need to read your own Wikipedia link. There was no Scottish-British civil war, that doesn't even make sense. Scotlands War of Independance was against England.

Edit: Just read your paragraph in post 15 about the "Scottis-British" invasion. It's quite funny. You really shouldn't lecture people on stuff you know nothing about.

[minimogut]

Err... I may be the odd one out here, but I don't choose based on "who did what." I choose based on what I'm more comfortable with.

The very first time I played the game, I went with Ralof(at the very beginning of the game) for three reasons:

1. I was standing closer to him when he and Ralof were yelling at eachother.
2. The imperials just tried to cut off my head. I kind of need that, you know.
3. THERE IS A GIANT FREAKING DRAGON FLYING AROUND, TRYING TO BURN US ALL TO DEATH.

That right there was the point of no return. Every other game I've started since, I've chosen Stormcloak(with the exception of one game where I chose Imperial just to see what it was like), simply because that's what I'm used to. I know my way around the tunnels with Ralof, I know where to find extra coins and other, necessary goodies. Well, necessary in my opinion. And, to be honest, it feels like I'm betraying whoever I went in with if I go with the opposite side.

In conclusion, it's just a game. Choosing one side or another doesn't make someone a bad person. If it was real life, I would have a hard time choosing, however, because both sides are as flawed as the other, though in different areas.

[malfoya]

I almost choked when I read that someone used America as an example for any part of this game... when the game is so obviously based on old European mythology, culture and not at least the Northern European landscapes and buildings.

... anyways. I prefer the Stormcloaks. Basically I just like being a rebel in the games I play, because I find it more fun. I also like the perks you get for their missions. For me I do not think about nationalism or imperialism when I play. I rather like the general medieval aspect of the game.. and I love beating monsters with swords and bows :P

[C_Guy]

I pick the Stormcloaks side because it's easier to do, I failed to defend the barriers during the battle for whiterun a few times!..

I find the imperials are to Totalitarianism or totalitarian in there rule over the people!..

[GnatGoSplat]

My first character went with the Imperials because I played him in 1st person and he felt like an extension of myself. Racism sickens me deeply, so there's no way I could side with the Stormcloaks. Racism may not be the official policy of the Stormcloaks, but most of the townsfolk who side with the Stormcloaks are clearly racist, as evident when you enter Windhelm for the first time. There is no way I wanted a part of that. In real life, you can gauge the ideology of a political party by the ideologies of people who support it, so I made my decision in the game similarly to the way I do in real life.

However, I do enjoy playing through a 2nd time with a buffoon character who makes stupid decisions and does everything wrong. I'm thinking about an elf character who joins the Stormcloaks to assist in his own oppression.

[Artimis]

My first character went with the Imperials because I played him in 1st person and he felt like an extension of myself. Racism sickens me deeply, so there's no way I could side with the Stormcloaks. Racism may not be the official policy of the Stormcloaks, but most of the townsfolk who side with the Stormcloaks are clearly racist, as evident when you enter Windhelm for the first time. There is no way I wanted a part of that. In real life, you can gauge the ideology of a political party by the ideologies of people who support it, so I made my decision in the game similarly to the way I do in real life.

However, I do enjoy playing through a 2nd time with a buffoon character who makes stupid decisions and does everything wrong. I'm thinking about an elf character who joins the Stormcloaks to assist in his own oppression.

Here's the thing, correct if I'm wrong but if you join the stormcloacks when you are asked why you want to fight for the freedom of skyrim, there is little racism brought against the main hero. I do not understand is Ulfrics racism against everyone who is not a nord. I could understand with the high elves and the imperials as they are his enemies but the other races are not evil and not all of them are against him. My first character was a dark elf and he had nothing against her though he has a thing against the other dark elves.

I think ulfic should think carefully adout his racism issue before it ends up killing him.

[kiwi_tea]

Ulfric is not so much racist himself as he is simply exploiting racism and nationalism to gain a personal foothold. He's an opportunistic egomaniac, not really a racist. I'm totally on the side of the Stormcloaks in terms of a people's right to self-determination, it's MUCH more democratic than Imperialism, the problem is that Ulfric stands in the way of the average Nords as well. What they obviously need is a revolution that drags them out of feudalism, and that means the Nords fighting against their own self-appointed "leaders" AND the empire.

#amioverthinkingthis?

[GnatGoSplat]

I played over the weekend, my dark elf joined the Stormcloaks. True, there is little racism directed towards the player from Ulfric and Galmar. Mostly just something like, "Why would a Dark Elf want to join the Stormcloaks?" I recall some dialog between Galmar and Ulfric, however, that was very anti-elf that had me thinking, "Hello! Dark elf standing right here!" All the Stormcloaks also have dialog saying, "Skyrim is for the Nords!" Some might say that's not racist because it's being for something rather than against, but I think most people would think it's racist if a white person in the US said, "America is for the whites!" I also recall dialog from Khajiits and Argonians saying they are ostracized by Stormcloaks, and after the war, Adrianne Avenicci in Whiterun says she wouldn't have any business at all if it weren't for her Nord husband since she is an Imperial.

I do think Ulfric is exploiting racism, but is it okay to support racism in order to further a cause, or to be just a little bit racist? I don't think so, which is why my paragon character joined the Imperials instead.

[Lerf1950]

Problem is there are some subtle hints that the late High King was just as racist. At least two people in Solitude have told me that Torygg would never have let the Argonians into the city when he was alive. And you can kind of see where they're coming from. The Thalmor are pretty blatant about wanting to enslave the rest of the races, and their current actions aren't happening.

I've played down both civil war questlines, and decided I didn't like either one....

[ChaoticNeutral]

I agree with (what seems to be to be) the most popular stand - that the Empire needs Skyrim to stand against the Thalmor. It's a bitter pill to swallow, and the whole Talos worship being outlawed was way over the line. But how can the Thalmor be overthrown if the opposing parties are engaged in in-fighting? If I remember correctly, even Elsewyr has allied with the elves, despite being treated as even less than humans, because of that shady occurance with the moons disappearing.

Both questlines are incredibly upsetting. I would love to have the option to side with both and attack the Thalmor. SPECIALLY that Elenwen bitch, omfg how can a character be so obnoxious. If anyone played the main quest before the civil war one, they had the Season Unending quest where the Dragonborn has to negotiate a truce. If my Dragonborn wasn't such a depressed little huge nord and it wasn't so out of character, I would have killed her then. The fact that she tortured Ulfric personally when he was a soldier for the Empire makes her presence there even more despicable. I find it poor writing, though, to have the Thalmor being so effing annoying. It's easy to make Big Bad Unreedemable Villains. And forcing you into one of two broken sides isn't necessarily an interesting, mature plot (compare with siding with Mages or Templars in another popular game, Dragon Age II). Skyrim suffers from some really bad writing.

Ulfric is quite a racist and far from a hero, but one can understand where he is coming from. I also find him quite charming, not in that Che Guevara way of many revoluntionaries, but he's honest even in his misconceptions. It's very funny how he keeps asking his right-hand man about everything, if you keep listening to their dialog. He keeps asking his opinion on absolutely everything, and sounding like an insecure little warchief. After he gives a speech in the Stormcloak questline he's all like "did I go well? did my armour match my eyecolor? am I still fabulous?". :jest:

An option to bring both Empire and Stormcloak together against the Thalmor would be brilliant. Siding with the Stormcloaks means weakening the Empire even more and giving racism more legitimacy. But on the other hand, the Empire doesn't make any clear stand against the Thalmor, nor seems to have any plans to act on it any time soon. Imagine being able to serve as the bridge between the two factions, even without attacking the Thalmor, but simply forging a secret alliance against them. THAT would made me very happy. :P

[Samaela]

I tend to lean towards the Imperials, if only for the whole racisim thing the Stormcloacks got going on. I mean, I get it, I understand why they are that way and they do have good sides and by all means it's not entierly wrong of them to have the fight, but the racisim is such a dealbreaker to me personally. Add in that I've yet to played a Nord and I don't see why my Imperial, my Argonian or my High Elf would ever support them.

In the end it doesn't really matter anyway. I was so disappointing by the civil war in Skyrim. Everyone talks about it and how people die and don't come back, but the war itself is invisible and once you win for either side, everything still stays the same.

[minimogut]

Just my own personal opinion here (and it is slightly off topic... or very off topic, depending) but something that bugged me about the Skyrim opening sequence was that they made you go through the whole... I guess it's kind of a cutscene before you were able to make your character. Like, in Oblivion, there was a cutscene, then you made the character, and then the actual game started, and the jerk in the cell in front of you would change his dialogue based on your race and gender.

I mean, there's Hadvar who says a brief little generic thing about whatever race you chose, and how they'll ship your remains back to somewhere (and the female guard) but that's it. I don't know, it seems like it would make more sense if some of the characters had different dialogue.

[tigerex_13]

well i go with the empire 99% of the time even though i end up do the dark brotherhood quests halfway through the civil war

[baloon]

And what do you think about Dragonborn? I think it's great! And it has similar climate as Morrowind.

[Artimis]

And what do you think about Dragonborn? I think it's great! And it has similar climate as Morrowind.

I have played and won it in adout two days. It is an awesome DLC but there is one thing I think should have been in there the option to join Miraak like how you can join the villain, Harkon in Dawnguard. Would'nt that just be awesome if you could have Miraak as a companion or something.

[Master Spark]

I never could decide because the Imperials are elitist pricks (a trip to Solitude will prove that) that bow to the will of the Thalmor against their own people (and they tried to lop off my head) and the Stormcloaks are racist pricks (a trip to Windhelm will prove that) that want a Skyrim that isn't free but, ruled by one race with everyone else becoming second class citizens, especially elves and Khajiit.

I always felt that the Dovahkiin should have become either king of Skyrim or the new dragon blood Emperor since according to lore he's supposed to be so revered and such a legendary figure (they sing songs about him saving the world for crying out loud). Unfortunately, it seems that in practice he's really just the Orkin man for dragons.

[xDivaxDeex]

hhhmmm at first I chose stormcloak, but after going through the game (restarting 5 times to get the skill points exactly right!) I choose Imperial.
I dunno, something about them stormcloaks just didnt seem right...

[residenteviloutbreak]

Stormcloak, because they are trying to actually help people, dont like being unfairly told what to do, and just remember: The legion tried to execute you JUST BECAUSE YOU CROSSED THE BOARDER!