hair mesh animation problems

[helaene]

hi all -

i've seen brief discussion of this elsewhere...but now that i've started meshing some, it would be great to have some concrete answers. i used milkshape 1.7.4/simpe/meshtool to create some new meshes, but all of the hair meshes have crazy animation in the game - even around areas that i didn't modify at all. (ie. i made the bottom of the hair longer, yet the top of the head moves VERY strangely) is there a way to just get rid of the animation? if not, could someone please simply explain joints/bones and their use in this matter?

if this is answered elsewhere, please just post a link.

thank you guys!

helaene

[pinhead]

I'm not sure exactly what is the problem, but meshtool sometimes create weird animations.
What i can think is that when you import a obj file, and since meshtool keep the vertices assigned to the bones, maybe meshtool is importing the vertices in wrong order and then is assigning them in wrong bones.
but is just a little teory, i don't know if i'm wrong or not. :)

i saw some hair meshes out there with this problem too.

[simmysimmysim]

how come some of my hair styles come up as the social bunny's head?

[cevic]

What do I know the vertices around neck need to be assigned to multiple joints, that's not supported by the plugin. You can minimize the problem by giving tries and errors to assign the vertices till the best animation appear in game. Anyway someone who master with simPE might be able to assign multiple joints to the mesh.

[Dr Pixel]

how come some of my hair styles come up as the social bunny's head?

This means you have downloaded a hair "color" that is meant for a custom user created mesh, but you did not download the needed mesh file.

If you have University installed, this would appear as a more normal-looking, but still incorrect, dupliacte of a Maxis hair.

I have also seen it happen that the Sim will appear with the entire top of their head missing.

This can also happen with clothing - but clothing will always look like a regular (but wrong) Maxis skin.

The fix for all these cases is to go back to the site where you got the hair color. There should be either a link to download the mesh for it, or instructions on where to get the necessary mesh.

If you download from the Exchange you will have to contact the person who made the Sim and ask, since the Sims2Pack files will never include the mesh.

Or the other choice is to go into BodyShop and delete this non-working hair.

[helaene]

so is there a way to just get rid of the animation? for instance, the female bun hair isn't animated, i don't think....

[pinhead]

i think that for correcting the animations is better to use wes milkshape plugin. But this plugin has some problems and you will need to learn how to avoid those problems.

is the best solution that i can think right now.

[cevic]

Sorry for the wrong information before,

Since the mesh is a modification and export using Meshtool, actually you can reduce the wierd animation by using simPE.

1. Open your mesh file using simPE v0.38 (make sure your SimPE is in advance mode). Select the GDMC option then pluginView and cGeometryDataContainer tab, straightly select the wierd hair alpha group in groups class and a customizable option will be appeared on the RHS. Click the subsets collection and menu will appear and U could notified that few members in the list and normally (for original maxis or modification using Meshtool) the head joint (number 7) will be on top and sort the value for 5 (spine 2), 6 (neck) and 7 (head) to a piece of paper, ignore the others. Then cancell the menu.

2. Now check-up the links class and select the link which same index number of the the wierd hair alpha and customizable option appears on RHS. Click the collection for ReferencedElement and a menu will appeared, then copy the list on paper and cancell the menu.

3. Now you should find BoneWeights, Secondary, ####Float at the elements class which the index number is included to the second list. Click on it, then a RHS menu will appear.

4. Select collection Values and a menu will appear. You should notice that the sum of the values in a row should be 1. Each column represents the joint as your 1s list (for ariginal Maxis hair the list normally should be 7 - 6 - 5). The values represent the weighing of the joints (1 is meant 100%, 0.5 = 50% etc). The index numbers represent the index number of the vertices.

5. You could obtain the vertices index number by export the mesh to obj file using the simPE and open the obj file using Milkshape. Then select the vertices that show wierd animation then press Ctrl+Shift+E, a menu will appear then select the option show selected vertices only. Now you get the vertices index number and list them on the paper.

6. Back to SimPE, reach back to weighing menu (step 3 & 4). Now you may edit properly the weighing via the index number obtained from the last list. (Tips: the valuses for vertice above ears could be 1,0,0 and below shoulder could be 0,0,1 and others should decide properly).

When you done your works dont forget to commit and save.



Hope this will help you.

[JasmineVs]

Hey Helaene,

Wes's bodychop plugin will help you here's the link to it:
http://www.variousimmers.net/vsimforum/showthread.php?t=495

Also for instructions on how to use this refer to this thread at TSR by Shar:
http://forums.thesimsresource.com/showthread.php?t=278680

Good luck!

[helaene]

thank you both! i'll give both of your suggestions a try. ;)

[aikea guinea]

This is fantastic information- thanks everyone!!

I've got some meshes I'd love to share with everyone but the animations are so distracting I needed a way around them before I could upload them.

[helaene]

jasmine - i don't understand the difference between using the mesh tool and wes h's bodychop plugins.....do you think that will help with the animation? i thought his were just to basically enable use of an altered mesh with different bodytypes.....

i guess what i'd really like to do is just cut out the animation....i don't really care if the hair goes through her shoulders sometimes...as long as the top of it isn't spontaneously squiggling around! ;) is this possible??

i noticed in shar's thread that you pointed out, she mentions that she's using the 'bun-hair' for her longhair with crown mesh....in other words...she's using a hairmesh that originally had no animation (i believe)....can i do this? how?

[Dr Pixel]

I'll try to explain it as breifly as possible

First, the BodyChop plugins are strictly for body meshes.

For hair, use Wes H's v 2.16 plugins

Now, for your problem - it looks like you have moved the vertices too far.
Every vertice is "assigned" to a bone of the Sim's skeleton. When using the .obj format, you can not change these assignments so you can only move the vertices a small amount without risking problems like in your picture.

Even a mesh which seems to have no "animation" really does - because the hair must always move when the head moves. This is controlled by the bone assignment of each vertice. The vertices that are assigned to the head "bone" will always move wherever the head does. What I think happened is that you moved vertices that were not assigned to the head close to the head, or else too far away, but if they were assigned to the neck they would still move with the neck, not with the head, no matter where you move them to.

The solution is to use Wes' v 2.16 plugins. These allow you to add or remove parts to your mesh, and also to assign the vertices to whatever bone is appropriate to have the hair move correctly in the game.

http://216.32.95.38:81/images/MTS2_75739_Dr%20Pixel_Head_assignments.gif

In the first picture is a head mesh I made using Wes' v 2.16 plugins, a ponytail. I have gone to the "Joints" tab (this is what MilkShape calls the "bones") and I have clicked on the "head" in the bones listing. Then I clicked on [SelAssigned] which makes all vertices assigned to the head turn red.

Now I want to assign the vertices of the hanging tail to the spine2 bone (the upper back) which will keep them from sticking out like a sword when the Sim moves her head. So, on the Model tab, I choose Select, In Select Options I click [Vertex], and make sure "ignore backfaces" is NOT checked.
http://216.32.95.38:81/images/MTS2_75740_Dr%20Pixel_To_assign.gif

Then back on the Joints tab I click spine2, then I drag a box around the vertices I want to assign to that bone. They will turn red. I then click [Assign]

That's it. Sometimes you will need to come back after testing in the game to move things around a bit to get a nice animation in the game, but the more you do it the easier it gets.

See the thread about Wes' v 2.16 plugins for more information.
http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=43503

[sussifriberg]

Thank you,Dr Pixel,I cannot thank you enough for all your tutorials-they have helped me tremendously!!
Do you know of a way to get rid of the ugly see-trhough glitch back in the neck,when creating new hairmeshes?
Oh,and THANKS again!

[helaene]

thank you thank you thank you thank you dr. pixel! :)

you can see my first hair mesh released tonight here: http://forums.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?p=561574

[Dr Pixel]

The gap at the back of the neck problem is solved in this post:
http://www.modthesims2.com/showpost.php?p=536207&postcount=7

[JasmineVs]

God i'm such a dumbass I didn't even think about what I was linking you to helaene, sorry! I'm glad Dr Pixel got you to the right plugin! ... I was nearly there I said wes_h at least lmao!

[helaene]

thanks anyway, jasmine....lol....i appreciate your good intentions ;)

[helaene]

this is so frustrating...i'd really love to just work on something, and have it show up correctly for once!! does this look like a joint assignment problem to you?

[helaene]

anyone? its been a week.... :( i'm starting to lose hope!

[Dr Pixel]

Yes it does - or maybe some vertices were not assigned at all.

You are using Wes H's plugins?

[helaene]

i've definitely been assigning everything....every mesh that i barely alter comes out like this lately. i am using wes's plugins. thanks for responding!

[Dr Pixel]

Make sure that nothing is assigned to any "joint" other than "head" and "spine2" and "neck" (only the vertices at the very bottom of the hair on short hairstyles and be sure to do the neck-gap fix)

Also make sure that all the groups are showing when you do the assigning.

Don't think that if you only moved things around a little bit that you can just leave the assignments alone.
Because of the multiple vertice assignments that the game uses sometimes they come in assigned to other "joints", and that won't work.

What I do is first select the "head" joint and assign the entire mesh to it.

Then go back and make other assignments as needed.

That will make sure nothing is assigned to other places.

[helaene]

actually i've been doing that....do you think theres a bug with one of my programs? should i reinstall milkshape or the plugins or something? thanks again for your help.

[Dr Pixel]

No, I don't think the problem is with the plugins or MilkShape - it looks more like perhaps you have added a new group to the mesh or lost the "comments" something like that.

A couple more questions. Exactly what did you do when you edited that mesh? Anything that could have added a new group, such as adding a cylinder or sphere?

Did you try to assign the original texture to it in MilkShape? That can cause major problems unless you shorten the name of the texture .bmp file.

Did you edit the mesh with anything else after opening it in MilkShape and before you exported it again? In other words, did you keep it in MilkShape the whole time?

When you exported the mesh to a new GMDC file, and used that to replace the existing one, did you remember to put back the original filename of the mesh?

Oh, you did export it using Wes' 2.16 plugins, directly to a GMDC file, right? Not with the BodyChop plugins, and not as an .obj file?

[helaene]

perhaps i lost the original comments...that's all i can think of. whenever i have copied comments over to regroups (renamed to the original group name and put in order), they have only held the title of the group, no additional data. both of those last images i posted were from meshes that i only edited in milkshape (and barely altered) with no additions... i still don't understand texture mapping, but i was under the impression that i didn't need to do that unless i added parts to the mesh. oh, and yes, i'm definitely using the correct plugins.

thanks again...this is a never-ending saga!

[Dr Pixel]

Could you .zip up the .ms3d file of the finished mesh, before it was exported and attach it here? It's much easier to see what the problem could be that way.

[helaene]

i think i've got it! of all things, it was SIMPE that was the problem...and not me! that's a big relief. i noticed that sanmoo had said that they couldn't use the latest version of simpe with hair, so i got the older version and now everything is working again!

[Dr Pixel]

Glad you got it working.

[Mage]

So I have made my first Sims 2 hair mesh but I don't have the animations. I mean the hair moves with the head properly and I have played around with asigning vertices to the neck etc. But even when I just re-import the exact same mesh after just looking at it but not changing it in MS3d 1.7.5, the hair does not swing or float when the sim moves, like the original hair does.
Where am Igoing wrong?

[Dr Pixel]

It's not going to swing or float after editing.

You aren't doing anything wrong.

That is done by the secondary vertex assignments - MilkShape can't do those.

The other option is to export as an .obj file, then use the MeshTool to turn it back into a GMDC. That will preserve the animations, but also means you will be limited to only moving around the existing vertices of the mesh.

[Mage]

It's not going to swing or float after editing.

You aren't doing anything wrong.

That is done by the secondary vertex assignments - MilkShape can't do those.

The other option is to export as an .obj file, then use the MeshTool to turn it back into a GMDC. That will preserve the animations, but also means you will be limited to only moving around the existing vertices of the mesh.

Thank you so much. So do you mean export the original mesh from SimPe with the export button, then import wavefront object into MS3d, move vertices around and export as .obj?

What about Auto Smooth? Smoth all?

Then how exactly should I turn it back into a GMDC?
1 Load 3d File (my .obj from Milkshape)
2 Load Sims 2 Mesh (the original .5gd)
3 Settings (everything checked except overwrite names)
4 Save File

Then replace the GMDC as I would a body mesh?

You must think I'm an idiot needing it spelled out in the tiniest detail.
Thanks again.

[Mage]

That kind of worked. It's so weird, on the left side of the head the hair is all bouncy and great but on the right side it doesn't move. What could that mean?
But thank you because it's still pretty cute and I'm excited to have gotten this far.