New Creator Rules re: Paysite recolours, General Rules and Others

[Delphy]

Hi All,

Every so often we re-examine the existing rules we have in place, compare them to the downloads and see where they - and the site - can be improved. This is one of those times. :)

MTS2 is, as you all know, the premier resource for free content and help with the Sims 2 game and we pride ourselves on having the best downloads, best creation help, best tutorials and best game help in the community.

We were founded on the belief of free access to all the content here, and have, traditionally, allowed content that essentially advertises other peoples sites (be it pay or not). Recently we cracked down on such advertising, but since MTS2 is one of the best free sites in the community, it stands to reason that we should showcase and highlight free content wherever possible. To continue with this ethos, I would like to announce these changes to the current upload rules.

Read the Short Rules if you are impatient, but before asking a question, please read the Long Rules and the Frequently Asked Questions for more clarification.

:here: The Short Rules:

1. Any uploads to MTS2 that require pay content will no longer be accepted for upload!

2. Any uploads to MTS2 that have optional pay content will no longer be accepted for upload!

3. All content must be showcased using free content only.

3b. Asking people for content included in pictures but not linked should be confined to PM or the Where can I find forum only.

4. All existing downloads that require pay content to function (including recolours, hairs, etc) will be moved to an archive in 2 weeks time.

5. For sims and lots: if you do not know where you got something, don't include it in the picture or the text! Remove it from the download or it will be rejected.

6. With regards to the signature rules: remember that removal of links is at the absolute discretion and final decision of the admins.

:here: The Longer Rules:

1. Any uploads to MTS2 that require pay content will no longer be accepted for upload!

This specifically means content that requires you to pay money or donate to acquire it. To put it differently, this is content that is not accessible by regular members or requires some kind of monetary contribution to gain access to. This includes items from TSR, Simslice, ExnemSims, Peggy Sims and Rose Sims. Items that are always free for download on a site that also contains donation or pay items are ok.

Content that is categorised as always free is acceptable, with the exception of TSR items. However, any content that is locked behind either a donation scheme, a rotation system, contest winners only, or is not otherwise available for download to normal members is not allowed. It is for this reason that we will no longer allow content that requires pay items or has optional paysite links, and will be removing old content that requires it.

The admins and staff have the absolute right to determine which content or sites fall under this category.

2. Any uploads to MTS2 that have optional pay content will no longer be accepted for upload! By this we mean content that isn't required for the upload to work correctly, but is showcased in the pictures or in the text.

With regards to the optional content - this is stuff that you would showcase as part of your downloaded item. Some table in the corner of a pic doesn't matter if you are uploading a Sim. The pay hair and makeup that you decide to put the Sim in does and wouldn't be allowed. Remember that your pictures should always be primarily of the actual download, as is. Do not go overboard with extra content when it's not actually going to be downloaded by the members.

3. All uploads must be showcased using free content only. Remember that the download description is not a place to advertise other sites but to tell the downloader about your creation.

3b. Asking people for content included in pictures but not linked should be confined to PM or the Where can I find forum only. There are much better ways to ask or find content than asking it in someone’s download thread.

If, as a member, you have a question about a particular piece of content that is not showcased in the picture or text but appears, however slightly, then feel free to either PM the creator and ask, or use the WCIF system on Sims2Community. Asking in the thread "Hi, Where did you get so-and-so chair?" is not good usage of the comments system and is also quite rude if you don't comment on the download and only ask for other stuff. Those comments will now be removed.

4. All existing downloads that require paysite content to function (including recolours, hairs, etc) will be moved to an archive in 2 weeks time.

Currently this is everything that is tagged as a Paysite Mesh, or those items without the tag deemed to be so by the staff.

5. For sims and lots, remember that if you do not know where you got something, you shouldn’t include it in the picture! Remove it from the download or it will be rejected.

6. With regards to the signature rules: removal of links is at the absolute discretion and final decision of the admins.

We have always had rules to prevent linking to illegal content, however just because you might not agree with a persons sig, doesn't mean it should be removed. If the signature has swear words, or links to pornography or warez sites, then it will be removed as per the existing rules. All other links are removed only at the discretion and decision of an admin. If you find a signature you disagree with, you may report it, but please keep these rules in mind.

:here: Frequently Asked Questions:


What do you mean by optional content in screenshots? What if I upload a dress and my model has pay hair, or if I upload makeup and my model in the pic has pay eyes? Is stuff like that allowed? Can I show pay furniture in a pic if I'm only uploading the wallpaper? What about pay furniture in one example pic of a house if I'm uploading the house unfurnished?

Using pay content to showcase your free items that you are uploading onto a free site seems a bit silly. We encourage and advise people to use free content, so your model could use free eyes and free skintones etc. In all cases above, no pay items would be allowed. A very tiny part of a pic, sure, but pay hair on a model for lipstick, nope. Basically rule 2 is in effect even for pictures - no pay content.



What about free items on a paysite? Can I recolour free TSR things? Can I recolour free Peggy things? Can I show them in screenshots?

We will not allow recolours of anything that is on TSR - free or not - due to their ever changing rules. Recolouring free items that are always free from other sites is ok, but obviously we would prefer you only recolour items that are on free sites anyway.



What do you mean things will be moved to an archive in 2 weeks? Will we be able to see the archive or will my uploads disappear? And what things will be moved? What if a house needs one pay object, does that count? Or if a sim uses pay hair that isn't included?

The archive will be locked for commenting for a period of time, after which the items will be removed completely. You will still be able to download from this archive during this period. Everything that requires a paysite mesh to work properly (as indicated in rule 1) would be moved.



What if I recoloured a pay mesh from SimChic but included the mesh because they allow that... will that count as a pay mesh recolour?

That wouldn't be counted because the user doesn't need to download anything else, since you are allowed to include the meshes with your uploads. So yes, it's allowed.



If I am uploading paintings, do I have to credit the wallpaper in the picture, especially if there's only a tiny bit showing? If it's a top-down view of a bed, do I have to credit the floor?

Nope. Crediting everything in a pic would be very, very time consuming on all parts. However, we ask that if you have a question about content in a pic you either PM the creator or use the Where can I find forum on S2C.



Do I have to credit all of the content I've shown on my sim in the pictures even if I haven't included it?

When taking screenshots of your sims, the way they are pictured is the way people will expect them to look when downloaded, too. You are showcasing the sim to encourage people to download it.

Therefore, all content actually displayed on your sim in your screenshots - clothing, hair, accessories, makeup, skintones, etc. - should be credited, and should all be free content.

If you don't remember where you got something, or it's not a free item, please switch it out for a Maxis item or something you can link to. What people see with your sim is what they should be able to get in their own game.


:here: Final Thoughts:

While I realise that some of you creators may be upset with this change, please understand that the entire community is based on free help and support, and to make a recolour of, for example, a pay hair mesh, is to effectively advertise that site, and to say "free content is not good enough". While we realise that the actual recolours or content uploaded here may have passed our moderation queue, it is in the interests of the larger community as a whole and a necessity to go back to the roots that we are doing this. There are many, many free sites, with content far more suitable for recolouring to upload to MTS2, and we encourage everybody to use this free content. Why recolour pay content or content that is not as good quality when you can get all that and more from existing free sites?

For lists of excellent free content, please see the S2C Finds (http://www.sims2community.com/), or the Sims 2 Wiki Content Lists (http://www.sims2wiki.info/Content_Lists).

Please also note: Neither MTS2 nor it's owners nor any sole person or organisation supporting MTS2 is liable for any downloads on this site. If something breaks your game, or you do not agree with the content of a particular download, then we have the Report links, or you may indicate to the creator about particular issues with an object, but at no point may you engage in flame wars or hold us liable for anything you disagree with.

By implementing these rules, we make MTS2 for free creations only, and make sure that the bulk of the people using this site - the downloaders - can get all the content they need without having to worry about paying anything, which is, after all, one of the founding purposes for us in the community.

Regards,
Delphy

ps Thanks to all the MTS2 staff for giving feedback, clarifying points, helping with FAQ answers and generally being awesome! :)

[poundingheart]

Sounds great Delphy. Keep up the great work. MTS2 Rules!!

[Menaceman44]

Well this shouldn't really effect me as an uploader too much. I think I should only be loosing one of my uploads. (I hope)
I did sometimes wonder what the point was in making a free recolour for an object you had to pay for.

[tiggerypum]

heartattack: http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=240437
(a little trip over to 'site issues' has it right there in the stickies)

[juniorvindahl]

Great new rules Delphy. Thank you for this great community.

[tralaladida]

Way to go, Delphy! As a downloader, I am glad to see that you are ensuring that all of the content found on MTS2 is freely accessible by all!

[Fat D]

another expansion in the support of free content. I like it.

[alxbry12]

I agree with you 100%. Great job.

[migamoo]

I have no issues with this. Sure, I might lose one or two things, but if that's what it takes, than I support this 100%.

[Tweakish]

I like this rule

[iamliz13]

This is awesome! Paysites WILL be destroyed!!!

[trvrmn]

I agree with you Delphy, a free site offering content needing pay site items is contradicting itself

[kumquatmai]

Very good ruling.

This is common sense, practical and a great affirmation of the guiding principles behind free sites - nice to see MTS2 walking the walk. I knew there was a reason why this is my all time favourite sims2 site.

[poplers]

I like these rules, good work. :D Thanks again delphy!

[Geezyjr30]

I totally agree wit u, PAYSITES ARE EVIL, THANKS FOR THE NEW RULES

[aeval99]

I completely agree with this. The game was designed in a way that made it possible to share content. I don't think it was ever intended for people to sell it. Hopefully, Sims 3 will see an end to this cash grab and a return to the original spirit of the game.

[MusicalMaven]

WOOHOO!!!

Thanks for taking this amazing stand, Delphy.

[LadyGrainne]

Simply awesome :D

[plicka]

I was hoping something like this would happen here sinse things have seemed to be straying a little from the whole free thing, i agree with these new rules 100%!

[khakidoo]

I think this is a great policy :) Thanks Delphy for taking a stand. I know that the buzz in the community has been saying there were changes certainly coming to MTS2's policy regarding pay items. Seems though that some people thought MTS2 would go the other route and allow pay meshes to be included in uploads, but you are so right when you say:

to make a recolour of, for example, a pay hair mesh, is to effectively advertise that site, and to say "free content is not good enough".
Well thought out, and well stated. :)


-K

[SephirothLaguna]

This rule change is not objectionable. In fact, it is a great rule change.

[MizzesSimmer]

This is a good idea. There are so many times I have downloaded a recolor or house that unfortunately required some pay items - which I will not pay for. It will be nice now to download items and actually get everything I expected.
Thanks for this new change, it will benefit the community for sure!

[Annelae]

That's true. I found this set of sims that looked really good here, but they only looked good with the hair they were displayed with- Rosesims donation hairs. Surely this will put a stop to it!

[corvidophile2]

That's true. I found this set of sims that looked really good here, but they only looked good with the hair they were displayed with- Rosesims donation hairs. Surely this will put a stop to it!

Well that's a bit like saying " The sims sucked with all other hair" when it is not like it.The only truth about pay hair is that they may have gaps or bad animations but they look good on sims and people will continue using them regardless what .But that really goes for only certain pay hair creators.They already have reputation so they don't get affected anyway by these new rules.(and the best advertising of pay content takes place at the s2c really,so are there any plans on changing the rules over there also? Because that would be great, can you imagine how many free content or sites we would discover if pictures there were showcasing free-only? ).


Which new rules certainly split ( the already splitted anyway) community in 2 sides but it is only fair for every content here to be available for everyone so it is understandable.Also i agree about stuff being showcased on lots and not being included in the upload just because people are bored to find them or they are pay.


I didn't get the signature part however, does it mean mts2 will allow signatures to pmbd? cause that would be a bit contradictory.Sorry if i didn't understand it well.

It's great to promote free creators overall and have access to all downloads,so it's only fair .

[Reyn]

This makes me a very happy person - It has always bothered me to see paysites having free advertising on the biggest free site in the community [ outside of, perhaps, the Exchange ].

Now, as others have said, I won't get disappointed finding a pretty recolour, only to learn I must buy the mesh.

[mal1958]

Thank you Delphy. This new rule should shout the fact that Free Sites like MTS2 has better quality and sticks to it's guns. I stay away from TSR since they locked one of my creations for Sims 1 behind the pay wall and Thomas basically told me to shove it when I told him to keep it free. Good work D and keep it up.

Birman Kat aka mal1958

[Crmelsimlover]

I think this is an excellent rule. And it make so much sense. Kudos to you, Delphy, Admins, and Mods.

[The T]

That sounds nice, Delphy.

Now I modifying my recently rejected sims ( after waiting for approval for 3-5 days :cry: ) to use free contents only and only use free contents in preview shots :).

EDITED : I just reupload my 'Mermaid & Siren Twins', this time with free contents only and I also make new screenshot without pay contents in it, too.

Te

[littleblackdog]

WOW !! I love you guys..thank you so much for all the wonderful creations..and the creators who work so hard and are soooo clever..!!

[niol]

In general, I like the newly improved rules. But as usual, I've got questions, suggestions, and comments. :) Hope you don't mind.

1. Clapping also with my feet. I don't normally wanna download compounded compositions because I can never finish downloading the necessary contents. :(

2. I kinda think some people can use a brilliant background to help enhance the impression on the imagery with optional contents or show some usages of the contents... I guess the rule should only apply to donation, pay and/or prize contents.

3. I think that should solely apply on pay, donation or prize contents in cases of compounded compositions.
Links to free sites can help mutually promote free sites for the free-site community.

4. I think 2 weeks is too short for most people, especially when the creator challenge is on the run now. Thus, a month sounds less stressful for those who have a lot of pay-contents in their uploads and probably creating for the challenge. It takes time for content replacement and repackaging.

5. Will there be any indication on a download thread deemed as an "archive"?

6. Does it remain the same? Or, just the links of pay-sites, pay-ietms, dontion sites, donation items, and/or prize items are removed?

[carlydunham]

this is awesome and thanks for listening to some of our ideas delphy in the paysites debates forums

[tiggerypum]

niol - the only things that will be archived are _pay_ item recolors. Those can't be fixed anyway. They will remain on site probably for a couple more weeks after the move (thus a month) before being removed all together. There are not actually that many items on site that fit this criteria, most people have been recoloring free content.

Existing screenshots that had pay items in them will still be allowed on site.

Future uploads are to use free items in screenshots - free hair, free meshes (including from paysites that allow free redistribution, such as SimChic), furnish houses with free room sets.

This is just more movement along the lines of 'what you see is what you get' - or can get freely if you follow links.

[carlydunham]

another question on the sims2 community forums in the finds will it stop paysites being shown on there too?

[tiggerypum]

Sim community finds has always featured FREE downloads. The issue is free downloads - a site that has some pay items and some free - recolors of their free items are welcome here at mts2, and still will be with this new policy. (except for TSR, as their free items change to pay as they promote folks to FA)

Sim Community Finds only feature items you can download for free (at the time of the find). What sort of site (100% free, 90% free, 20% free) is not ever the question. The only criteria is if that particular download is free and useful. So a free recolor of a pay item would not appear on S2C finds either -- it has to be totally free. We could make a mistake, but that has always been the policy about finds.

[Calalily]

That rocks! I'm sure the moderating team should get credit as they had to agree to this work too :) Kudos to MTS2 - who can't say they are the best freesite, eh?

[carlydunham]

Sim community finds has always featured FREE downloads. The issue is free downloads - a site that has some pay items and some free - recolors of their free items are welcome here at mts2, and still will be with this new policy. (except for TSR, as their free and not moves frequently as they promote folks to FA)

Sim Community Finds only feature items you can download for free (at the time of the find). What sort of site (100% free, 90% free, 20% free) is not ever the question. The only criteria is if that particular download is free and useful. So a free recolor of a pay item would not appear on S2C finds either -- it has to be totally free. We could make a mistake, but that has always been the policy about finds.

oh thanks for clearing that up for me:D

[carlydunham]

That rocks! I'm sure the moderating team should get credit as they had to agree to this work too :) Kudos to MTS2 - who can't say they are the best freesite, eh?

lol it kinda makes the nights i have stayed up afte r3am aus time debating over paysites worth it and TSR deserves it

[fairywasteland]

So, If I had a sim up for download pictured with pay hair but packaged with maxis hair, would that sim be moved to said archive? If so, could I just change the pics now to avoid this?

[tiggerypum]

The sims already on site that have a screenshot that includes pay hair but are not packaged with the hair are all safe. (I assume you did not click the 'requires pay mesh' on the upload)

New sims you submit will not be accepted with screenshots of pay hair, even if the sim is packaged without, you will have to find a suitable free hair for your screenshot. (this also goes for clothing - put free hair on your models!)

Btw, what matters on a custom sim is the facial structure and the custom skintone/facemask, if there is one. Hair can be replaced by the user afterwards, although the idea behind this is that all members can actually _have_ the sim you're showing in your pictures, even if they do have to go to a site with a free download for the particular hair.

[dunner1]

Thanks for the rule about no pay/donated content recolors and stuff. I really would pay or donate to some of these sites (including donations to mts2) if I had the extra cash, but I don't.

It's always a little sad when I see something that I really like just to find out that I can't pay for it.

[jahloveangel]

Great idea! It was getting very frustrating to see these awesome recolors (mostly of hair) that I had to pay to get the mesh so they'd work in game.

[noretus]

I was only starting to realize how much I like this site and now it got a little better :bunny:

[Inge Jones]

This is the civilised way to do it, and probably more effective too.

[The T]

Questions about uploading clothes.

I already know we can not upload pay mesh recolor, but I have 2 questions.

1 Can our sims models use pay skintones, eyes, makeups, accessories & hairs?

2. Can we use pay CC in screenshot like model standing on pay rug or in front of pay mirrors?


I ask these because I make a model contest now in a thai fansite and I will use winner's screenshots for previewing my clothes and most of contestants use Pay CC in ther shots. If I can not include pay CC in shot, I need to ask the winner to redo some of his/her shots.

Te

[tiggerypum]

Your models should be decked out in free content. Free hair on the models. If you're zooming in close to the face, free makeup, eyes, etc - if you're not, it doesn't matter.

Set up your photo area and models with free stuff. There's thousands of free rugs, use one of them. Same for mirrors. There's no _reason_ to have to include pay content in the photos. The picture is _about your clothing_. If you have a CAS that relies on pay content, consider remodeling it.

Matter of fact, you could just take your model outside and have them walk on the lawn, or in front of a simple wall and floor. Stuff around your model is _not needed_ to showcase your wonderful work.

Again, all existing screenshots on site are fine. Just new submissions for these rules.

Added: Ah I see. And yes, unfortunately for this particular situation, the major things in the screenshots should be free content. A small item in the background _could_ be pay.

[The T]

Thanks for your reply, tiggerypum :).

Te

[Nymphy]

I think these changes are good and effective :)

[9b8ll]

I like the new rules even though you can't use take screenshots of pay hair on sims. I really did hate finding recolors for meshes and pay for them. :( but I am definitely Trying my best to make hair and clothes just as good as any pay hair for free!!! :jest:

[Bonky]

I like this rules. They are very good :up:

[The Sorceress]

I think that is a great rule about not allowing any recolors of pay items. Thank you, for staying Free!

Proud to be, a 100% Free is my motto :) You are doing a great job :)

[RealGanacampo]

These are great new rules, it always sucked not to be able to download something you like because the mesh was pay.

Thanks for those rules.:)

[tish85]

sounds great!i don't know why would anyone wanted to made sim stuff 4 money,cause A LOT the most TALENTED creators are HERE on MTS2 and they made awesome things for free,from love!!!regards

[crocobaura]

Great new rules. Maybe something similar will be implemented on S2C as well because that's where the real advertising is really done.

[pickpock]

*claps*

Brilliant!
Now, if I had the time I'd so change all my pictures that contains paysite CC... that would make me a happy penguin.
But I think I'm gonna have to settle for just no more from now. Stupid RL. Maybe some other time.

But this is some of the best news ever! Thanks for showing the rest of the community how it should be done.

[Sheyza]

I'm so glad ya'll are doing this. I get real tired of people posting comments on a thread just to say "Oh! Your downloads nice but where can I get that hair in the pic???" x.x Definately for the WCIF thread. I also hate downloading something, only to find that the mesh or some other part is a pay item, then having to go through my DL's and find all of it and delete it. *worships* Thank you!

[frillen]

I have absolutely no problems with these rules, since I never use pay items anyway, furthermore I almost never use items beside the in-game when show-casing my content, no sense in confusing people about what's being showcased!
I've always believed that custom content should be made because we love to and not to earn an xtra buck - Get a real job if you really need the money!

These new rules are an improvement, every effort made to keep this site 100% clean from pay items will always be an improvement :up: *All my 10 thumbs up* :D

[fairywasteland]

The sims already on site that have a screenshot that includes pay hair but are not packaged with the hair are all safe. (I assume you did not click the 'requires pay mesh' on the upload)

New sims you submit will not be accepted with screenshots of pay hair, even if the sim is packaged without, you will have to find a suitable free hair for your screenshot. (this also goes for clothing - put free hair on your models!)

Btw, what matters on a custom sim is the facial structure and the custom skintone/facemask, if there is one. Hair can be replaced by the user afterwards, although the idea behind this is that all members can actually _have_ the sim you're showing in your pictures, even if they do have to go to a site with a free download for the particular hair.
Okay, got ya. Thanks Tig for your fast reply. :)

[PegasusDiana]

Fantastic new policy Delphy! I've never understood how they can take free tools from EA, or the community and then use them to sell items with. In just the short time I have been here I have seen some creators learn all they can here, then open a paysite and take their goodies and leave, or take most of their goodies and leave a couple with a link to their new paysite. I for one am very glad you took this view, I am sure many have had their pockets lined by the members of MTS2. I know I have lined several pockets from links on MTS2 and EA, but no more. Especially after some of the things I have seen/heard/attacks I have witnessed lately.

[FennShysa]

Add me to the list of people in full support of this.

[jenfold]

Thank you for the new clarification of the site rules. It answers a question that I thought I wasn't going to get a reply to and reminds me of why I'm happy here. I also think it's only fair that the biggest and best free site showcases only free items.

Again thanks!

[Sphinx287]

thank you! this is such a great idea!

***PAYSITES MUST BE DESTROYED***

[tantetee]

The rules are soo evil, but really kewl.

[Loverat]

This is great news =) Personally I now have my downloads divided (no pay items anyway - I would rather drink bleach than PAY for game items) into separate sections all by creator - 1) Items that can be included in lots 2) Items that can't be included and 3) Items that as yet I haven't identified a policy for because creators are too lazy to include the info in the item description =) Which I REALLY WISH THEY WOULD DO.

Having said that - on my own site I follow my own rules - eg: if its free it should be share-friendly. My particular faves are creators who make walls/floors/terrains and don't allow them to be shared in lots - seriously gafc!

Anyway I only foresee one problem arising - there are creators who share items on for example their own sites AND TSR free bits - but I am assuming if thats the case the creator site policy will take precedence.

I am pretty sure most of my lots on here probably contain free TSR items (oh yes I made sure I downloaded EVERY single free piece during the big rotation) but hey - Im all about the advancement of FREE GAME ITEMS and so not about wanting people to love me for my lots it doesn't matter!!

Great work and great move =)

[ChocolateAspiration]

These new rules look great - thanks moderating team :)

[vividmiss]

Wonderful news! This is a huge move and it will have such a positive effect, not just on this site but on the entire sims community :D

I have one quick question re tiggerypums response to fairywasteland's question. If an existing sim does have a recolour of a paymesh included, would it be possible to remove the recolour and reupload the sim with maxis hair?
Or would the screenshots also need to be redone showing a non pay or maxis hair? The sim is already marked as 'requires pay mesh'.

[mynxie]

I knew there was a reason why there's only one sim site saved to my favorites! MTS2! I can't even begin to imagine how ya'll manage to put in so much hardwork to this site and then up the ante even more by not 'requiring' a single monetary expression of our gratitude. You teach us how to use the maxis offered tools with unbelievable well written tutorials, you seek out other tools that can be used that were created by others and then take the time to find all the quirks and tricks to write even more wonderful tutorials. You host our uploads and only ask that we submit the best we can do, while everyone in this community offers advice on how things could be improved and encouragement on the things we've gotten right. And all the while you make improvements to this site through upgrades and new rules that require much more work on your part, so that the rest of us can reap the benefits.

And while it seems that when you create the new rules that you are setting up your defenses for an attack by community members you are greeted instead with a wealth of understanding and cheers for it. This site is by far the best site ever seen for the sims 2. And this new rule only goes to show the intergrity behind this site, its perhaps easier to say "keep it free" than to enforce it, and this move only shows that it is a sincere belief as well as policy!

Kudos to you Delphy and all of the moderators and even the community, for your hardwork and understanding.

[electrocuting]

Great news. A step towards the right direction!

[By_SIMmeline]

thank you! this is such a great idea!

***PAYSITES MUST BE DESTROYED***

I totally agree :bunny:

[Kumi Koda]

I've waited so long for this to happen! Seriously, I'm sick and tired of finding an item I really want to have in-game (mostly hair), only to find that I have to pay for it. These new rules eliminate that problem for me. Thank you so much!

I've never really understood why some people charge money for their Sims 2 content. Correct me if I'm wrong (which I mostly likely am lol), but isn't that illegal?

[niol]

So, what will happen to compounded compositions like lots and sims which may contain some recolours of pay items...? Will they get tagged or moved to the archive as well?

[LynnMar]

I think it is a brillant idea and I applaud you. thanks

[Judfer]

Thank you for this. I have always been bothered by the existance of recolors of pay items on MTS2. I feel better now. Thanks!

[autumnfoxx]

I am in favor of this change. Thank you :)

[~Jessica~]

i am happy to see these new rules :)
I had the same question as niol above.
I also have another question, this may not be the right thread for it but I wasnt sure where to put it lol
you said
What if I recoloured a pay mesh from SimChic but included the mesh because they allow that... will that count as a pay mesh recolour?

That wouldn't be counted because the user doesn't need to download anything else, since you are allowed to include the meshes with your uploads. So yes, it's allowed.
I was told I couldnt include any meshes with my sim upload, they have to be taken out before uploading (even though the mesh creator allows redistribution). So does this only apply to clothes/objects separate from sims/lots? Or are we now allowed to include meshes (free or not) in our sims/lots that are redistributable?

[maxpax318]

Great rules, I agree 100%.

Keep up the great work!! :D

[whiterider]

niol, if the download requires the pay item to function, then it will be moved to the archive and subsequently deleted. If the pay item is optional, or simply used in pictures, it will not. Basically anything that is, or could be, marked with the "Requires pay content!" tag will be removed.

anonymous, you are allowed to include meshes if the creator's policy allows it, but you must always provide linked credit on MTS2. If in doubt, or if they creator's policy is unclear, don't include it.

[all4music]

I think this is fantastic news and I'm glad that that paysites won't be getting anymore free advertising from MTS2. I hope this hits them where it hurts most...their wallets.

[Apsalar]

I think this is great. Thankyou to all MTS2 staff for your amazing work!

[Canoodle]

niol, if the download requires the pay item to function, then it will be moved to the archive and subsequently deleted. If the pay item is optional, or simply used in pictures, it will not. Basically anything that is, or could be, marked with the "Requires pay content!" tag will be removed.

anonymous, you are allowed to include meshes if the creator's policy allows it, but you must always provide linked credit on MTS2. If in doubt, or if they creator's policy is unclear, don't include it.

This needs to be clarified. Under our creator guidelines for Sims (read the guidelines) you cannot include a mesh made by others if you have not recolored it yourself.

[barrfly]

I am 110% in agreement. I find it extremely frutrating when I want to download something and it links me back to a pay site. Aargh.
Thank you for being the firm parent and exercising tough love. :up:

[LittleMac]

I was just thinking, but isn't what the sims resource doing actually illegal, they are making a profit of the back of Maxis, EA Games, CEP Package etc!

Surely thats not allowed?

[brody dalle]

thanks a lot for the "Short rules" section. *kinda lazy..*
:\

[Sinthe]

Awesome!

That's one thing that pisses me off about TSR: their so-called "free" items tend to require pay meshes. NOT COOL.

[tishabyte]

I like this rule. Now I don't have to go hunting things down

[naceygirl]

Thank you, Delphy! I'm sick of seeing something that I'd like to download only to find out that it's a recolor for a pay item! MTS2 is a fantastic site!

[Duvy]

I like to get everything on one site if possible anyway, so I think the new rules are a good idea!

[Delphy]

Thanks for the kind words everybody. They are much appreciated. :)

A general note though - there is a Paysite Debate forum on S2C (http://forums.sims2community.com/forumdisplay.php?f=85) that has all the debates about whether paysites are illegal and EULAs and ethics and all that stuff. Please keep any comments and discussion on these issues to that forum.

We'll go through and clarify any rules that need clarification or if you have any questions don't hesitate to ask.

Thanks
Delphy

[whiterider]

This needs to be clarified. Under our creator guidelines for Sims (read the guidelines) you cannot include a mesh made by others if you have not recolored it yourself.
Thankyou for clarifying, Noodle :)

[tiggerypum]

vividmiss

If your download of an existing sim is marked 'pay required' it is going to be moved to the archive if it stays that way. So yes, you can reupload your sim with a Maxis hair. (and edit to remove the paymesh tickbox). Please replace most (if not all) of your screenshots with a suitable free hair, and mark it clearly on the shots and in your text where they can get the free hair - so that members can have a sim that looks like the screenshots.

anonymous

If you recolored the outfit, then you can upload the mesh (as others have said) to your thread. (and you don't need to repackage the sim, just zip/rar and upload the additional file). If you didn't - perhaps you can find a someone else on site that did use the mesh, and point people to the free download there? (and remove the paymesh required tag)

SimChic's meshes are free (well free to distribute, if you recolored them I believe is their rule) which is an unusual situation - I would not call their meshes 'pay' in that way. On the other hand, we don't need to host 500 copies of the same mesh on mts2 - so if possible I suggest pointing to an existing location for the mesh if you can find one.

[ambers_journey]

Thank you for putting your foot down.

[leftyizme]

I personally like the new rule, and if I could ever figure out how to create posts, I'd happily upload several of the houses I've built. (yes, I plan on reading the tutorials here soon,) I am always in awe of the things that people with far more skill and talent than I posess create. And am very happy with the free items that I have found here. I'm not saying that I resent, or disagree, with the decision of some creators to only offer thier creations for sale, as I have found a few items that were of incredible detail and quality that obviously took many man-hours (or woman-hours, lol) to create. I feel that it should be each creators personal choice whether to sell them, or give them away free. Some do it for the fun of it, and others do it for much needed extra money. I have never had anyone twist my arm and force me to pay for anything, and I feel it's a persons choice whether to pay or not. There certainly is plenty of high quality material available for free, if a person chooses not to pay. I don't see "Pay Sites" as evil, but as an alternative choice. While it's true that many of the items offered here, and at other free sites are of the highest quality, there are some things that I have seen at pay sites that are of even higher quality. And I have seen things that are not worth paying for either... Again, it just gives a user more choices. And another thing, generally speaking, when a person starts charging for thier work, it is usually understood and expected that the work had better be of the highest standards. Otherwise, they won't be selling things for long, as people will have the word quickly spread to not bother buying things from them. So I feel that that also helps to act as an incentive to maintain quality in thier work.
Please note, I'm not knocking or criticizing the free items that are offered here, I have downloaded a great many of them and enjoy them a lot. And I am extremely grateful for the generosity of the creators in offering them to everyone for free. But I have seen a lot of open criticism of pay sites here, and at other free forums. And feel that people need to be reminded that not everyone can, or is willing, to donate so much of thier time to something for free. For some, the creations they sell provide a much needed income, and help to enable them to provide more than would be possible for free. If you don't want to pay, then that's a choice you must make on your own. You can easily find items of any type for free that are just as good.

[whiterider]

A general note though - there is a Paysite Debate forum on S2C (http://forums.sims2community.com/forumdisplay.php?f=85) that has all the debates about whether paysites are illegal and EULAs and ethics and all that stuff. Please keep any comments and discussion on these issues to that forum.
Just to reiterate. :)

[betsy4arts]

Bravo!!!! Many a time I have poised my download finger on the button only to realize that it needed a "pay" mesh and had to stop in mid click!!! I fully support your new policies!!!! Thank you!! :rofl:

[ridBonnie]

I must say that I am delighted to hear this news for purely selfish reasons. You see, I am disabled and on a very limited income and my sims are my main source of amusement in an otherwise dreary existence. I came to MTS2 because I was informed on another Free/Pay site that I needed CEP for the downloads to show in the game and I figured that since all the talent was here I would just continue visiting, at least for as long as I'm allowed to. Thank you so much for everything.

[Jessica_2020]

Am I the only one that sees this as a bad thing? It seems way to restrictive and a bit ridiculous! I doubt I'll take the time to upload anything here anymore...what a shame cuz I'm sure I won't be the only one! MTS2 used to be my first stop and favorite place for sims2 content...well...not anymore I hate to say! Seems MTS2 has been going downhill and it keeps going downhill faster and faster! I've just been looking at the quality and amount of downloads lately...and the amount of comments...wow...well I see the pattern, I hope some of you others see it too!

[Delphy]

Jessica, I actually find it quite incredulous that you complain about the rules to not include paysite recolours on MTS2 when you also have a link to PMBD in your signature...

Please read paragraph 1 of my Final Thoughts again. If you don't like MTS2, well, there are plenty of other free sites you can upload to... I fail to see how these rules will really affect your viewpoint, since you obviously are so negative towards us.

Enjoy uploading elsewhere, and downloading things here....

[kuronue]

ok, so, just to be clear, I don't remember which of my hairs are pay or free, but you won't take down a house I did because the sim laying on the bed in the bedroomshot has pay hair, right? I don't upload sims and I don't upload pay objects, so I'm safe, right?

and thanks for doing this!

[whiterider]

No, kuronue. Only downloads which require pay content will be removed, if they already exist.
However, in the future, uploads with pay content in screenshots will be rejected. I'm not sure what would be done in the case of pay stuff on a model in a lot... I'd assume it'd depend on how focussed the shot was on the model. Anywho, if it's just a model in a lot, it's easy enough to use Maxis stuff if you really don't know what's pay and what's free. :)

[Misty_2004]

Rock on! :luff:

[Jessica_2020]

Delphy- I get that you are in trying to destroy paysites... (I'm sorry for coming off so harsh) I respect that aspect of the new rule change! It just seems really extreme to me! I love to use paysite content in my downloads and screenshots! It just makes stuff look better! but it also seems you are taking away from the community from showing some of the awesome pay stuff out there, (that can be got free elsewhere) Most of my downloads folder is pay, which unfortunately I did pay for until I found out it was illegal what they are doing, so of course started going to PMBD! I guess our ideas of destroying paysites differ! I guess I prefer the file share friendly method! Anyways, I'll continue to visit here, but like I said, doubt I'll be uploading much anymore if anything just because I love to use paysite items, esp. in my screenshots!! Don't get me wrong, there is still tons of great free content out there, and most of it is here on MTS2!!

[patul]

Yessss :!::!::!:

I am other 100% for this kind of rules because I am also for the free use of all the stuff with corresponding link and credit.

There is sufficient free content all around the world net to continue to make awesome uploads in any category.

To help me to complete my little contribution to the members help, if you find a site allowing its free build/deco stuff in uploaded lot, let a message on the thread in my sig :)

[TheVillageIdiot]

Hey! I think this is an awesome rule!

I just want to clarify something.
I've seen PMBD popping up in a lot of comments - I know what it is. Quick question. If you can get a particular pay mesh from PMBD (since not all of them are available) and recolor it, could you still upload that creation here with a link to the free pay-mesh on PMBD? The mesh itself would then technically be free, and of course the recolor free here.

(If I'm being redundant re: somebody else's post, sorry! I'm running on 4 hours of sleep. Quite possible I missed it x_X)
Thanks!

<3333 MTS2

[whiterider]

No, you could not. We have never allowed the main link to a mesh to be any site other than one which the creator has given permission for the file to be hosted on. Basically, if the creator has said it can be there, you can link there. So if a pay creator has given a free site permission to host their stuff - go for it - but otherwise; no.

[TheVillageIdiot]

Ah, thank you. I haven't actually made anything yet (still practicing stuff) so I wasn't aware of that.

Thanks a bunch!

Still think this is awesome! Totally hated finding something I liked only to find out that it was based on a pay item I couldn't get (since I'm cheap and refuse to pay for stuff that I shouldn't have to pay for)

Keep it up!! <3

[archangelunomiel]

Thank you so much. I always thought this would be a good policy. MTS2 has and always will be my favorite and number one community for The Sims 2, and thanks for making it even better!

[bluemoon11]

Now, please don't misunderstand what I'm about to say. I hate paysites, I do want to destroy them, I do actually believe they are evil and also illegal. I support not advertising paysites in uploads, or anywhere else. (See my signature!)

However: I see many people replying to this thread saying that they are glad they no longer have to see a hair recolor, download it, *then* realize that the mesh is donation-only. I see this problem as very easy to avoid. Uploads requiring donation meshes have a nice little tag at the top, which *should* let downloaders know that they might have to pay to get the mesh. In my opinion, it is the fault of the downloader to not see the tag. I don't see why banning uploads requiring pay meshes should help at all with this particular issue.

Also, I have pay content in my game (especially hair, my personal favorite) and I like to see recolors of pay hair meshes up for download. If these recolors are no longer allowed, will I be stuck with the textures of the original mesh creator? I have no ability to recolor these meshes myself, and I doubt that the talented hair recolor-ers will take the time to upload to insimenator.net or another site. And we all know that donation (or free) meshes do not always come with good textures, just as the best hair textures are often made by creators with little or no meshing talent.

One more, then I'll leave: I have considered uploading full sims to MTS2 in the near future. I prefer to package the sims with maxis hair and clothing to not force downloaders to go download separate hair and clothes meshes just to download my sim. In screenshots of the sim, I would use custom hair and clothing. Am I correct in assuming that I could use only free content in the screenshots? If I used pay content, it would only be because I like the style and the item fits well with my sim's character, *not* to advertise a paysite, and *not* to look superior to other MTS2 members because I can have pay-only content and they can't.

I accept the fact that this rule will not be changed, and even if it is, it will not be because of me. I just have a few questions that I would like to have answered. Thanks for reading. :)

[whiterider]

We already have, in fact, a system of tagging uploads which require a pay mesh; however convenience for downloaders wasn't the reason behind this decision (just a happy side effect! ;)). MTS2 is a free site, and we have made it perfectly clear on several occasions that we neither agree with nor support the concept of paysites. Why, then, should we provide what is basically advertising space for something which we fundamentally disagree with?
In fact I recently saw a few staff members responding to a question about whether we would consider introducing a sign-up fee to help support the servers, and what came out of that was, and I quote (possibly paraphrased, my memory isn't that good), "The staff would rather shut down the site altogether than make it a paysite": a paysite being any website which you must pay to use content from. A free texture on MTS2 is all very well, but if you have to pay for the mesh to allow you to use the texture, what exactly is the point of the texture being free?
Paysites have tags for pay items too, theirs say "Donation gift", up till now ours have said "Requires a pay mesh!"... what's the difference?
You can find recolours of pay meshes elsewhere, but, yes, if you choose only to download from this free site, then you will find nothing to promote nor give purpose to, paying for content.

Your intentions may be perfect; but the effect of using a pay mesh on a model is the same. I started downloading madly from XMSims because of a hair I spotted on a sim, the credit link on that sim and the screenshots were an advert for XMSims, and it worked - they gained a downloader. As much as you may only wish to use the most appropriate item, whatever that item is, by using it you will be advertising it, and, as said, we're not going to allow MTS2 to be advertising space for paysites.
Thankyou for a very polite post! :)

[CynicalChick]

So there's no decent free content out there? Is this what I'm supposed to gather from this? I guess I should go yank Nouk's and seomi's trophies since it's free and therefore can't be any good.. right? 1700+ plus downloads hair, almost 11,000 clothing items, 800 sets of eyes.. wow, we should just close this site down since there can't be anything good here. After all, if I'm to believe what I'm reading "if it isn't pay, it isn't pretty"

Seems like everyone is mourning the loss of peddling their agenda instead of the change in the rules.

[carlydunham]

So there's no decent free content out there? Is this what I'm supposed to gather from this? I guess I should go yank Nouk's and seomi's trophies since it's free and therefore can't be any good.. right? 1700+ plus downloads hair, almost 11,000 clothing items, 800 sets of eyes.. wow, we should just close this site down since there can't be anything good here. After all, if I'm to believe what I'm reading "if it isn't pay, it isn't pretty"

Seems like everyone is mourning the loss of peddling their agenda instead of the change in the rules.

Not me CC as someone else said im also disabled and i cant afford paysites so this is awesome not linking to them and i also have PMBD :D

[BastDawn]

So there's no decent free content out there? Is this what I'm supposed to gather from this? I guess I should go yank Nouk's and seomi's trophies since it's free and therefore can't be any good.. right? 1700+ plus downloads hair, almost 11,000 clothing items, 800 sets of eyes.. wow, we should just close this site down since there can't be anything good here. After all, if I'm to believe what I'm reading "if it isn't pay, it isn't pretty"

Seems like everyone is mourning the loss of peddling their agenda instead of the change in the rules.

"Everyone"? Go back and read the thread. There are two people against it and one who says he's for it but has serious misgivings. The rest of us are very positive about it. Personally, I'm happy that MTS2 will no longer be an advertising source for crappy pay hair with neck gaps and no animations. I just went and added proper credits to all my downloads (of which I had already used exclusively Maxis and free content, so it was pretty easy). I also deleted my oldest download, which consisted of a recolor of hair that was originally on MTS2 but had been deleted and moved to TSR. (No one will miss it, as it was a long, stiff style from 2005.) This is a good move for MTS2. :)

[bluemoon11]

Thanks for the answer, whiterider and cynicalchick. That's all I needed! :) I don't consider free items as automatically low-quality. I'm sorry that my post sounded that way.

[CynicalChick]

My fault for posting when hot, tired and grumpy after a long day of work :) .. I only meant those that wish to put up an argument. I'm thrilled that the acceptance level is so high, Major changes to the site can be a stressful time because you never know what to expect.

[Zelia Theb]

THANK YOU for this new policy. It eliminates an especially annoying process that went something like this (for me):

Say I want my sims to have some new hair:

-Go to MTS2, click for hair
-Find cool hair, click the hair
-Read the hair, see it has an alternate link
-Decide that, yeah, the hair is cool, just this once I will click the alternate link
-Can't find the hair or I have to pay for the hair
-Go back to MTS2 and start all over again

One week, I think EVERY hair I clicked on was a pay hair, and there was no indication of that until I realized "Oh, I guess this entire site is a pay site".

So, this eliminates the annoyance factor. It stops advertising for the pay sites (Which I think might just get more traffic from all the free recolors that people want meshes for!), and it says "hey, free is the way to be".

But mostly, I had actually stopped looking on MTS2 for a while because it seemed like so much was pay related, and it was pointless to even bother looking around. So I'm happy about this. Way to stick to your guns and not be afraid to announce a policy like this (Some sites I've seen say that it's a must to have pay mentioned in the thread, but still allow the free recolors of pay meshes to exist).

[fabgiirl]

This is such a good idea, thanks staff. I dont use pay content at all, so it's great that i wont find something really nice, and then find that i cant have it! x

[micoeib]

This is the right way to fight against those illegal sites. For me it is illegal to want money for the Sims stuff!! We paid all enough to EA for the Game and i am surprised (but not really) that they do nothing against that sites. Thank you so much!!

[Faerieimp]

Before I made any comments, I figured I had best read all the ones that came before. I hate commenting unawear of what I am commenting on.
To begin with, while I do download from partial pay sites (including TSR) I have never downloaded anything that was pay. Or rather I have never downloaded anything that was pay at the time. Several items I downloaded off of Sims2Sisters became pay when the site shut down and moved to TSR, so I have items from that which are now pay.
I will admit that I have found some of these partial paysites from meshes needed from here (only for the free items on said sites). I have found just as many or more from google searches and almost all the sites I found from here were first found in google searches. I have done many google sites for hair.
When looking for items I am to the point where I mostly just look at new uploads on this site. My main goal is hair and toddler stuff. My sister makes some of our clothes and I upload others.
I personally don't really care if the stuff in a picture is pay or not, just so long as the main item, the download, doesn't require any pay stuff, but saying that I also don't care if everything in the picture is free simply because I ignore anything not in the download. I will admit that sometimes I want something in the picture, put usually it's the facial structure of the model.
The point of this being that I like the changes, since it will mean that anything I find will be free whether from here, from a fully free site, or from a partial one. I don't really care much about the TSR issue since I don't really find much stuff here from there anyway. There is some very awesome stuff here and in other places that have free stuff. I rarely find pay items to be even worth the consideration of paying for them and as of yet have not found any worth actually paying for. Besides that there being the whole issue of legality.
I will continue to enjoy all the amazing items on this site and who knows, maybe one of these days I'll upload some of my sister's recolors, provided I can figure out where each mesh came from. :)

[Delphy]

Delphy- I get that you are in trying to destroy paysites... (I'm sorry for coming off so harsh) I respect that aspect of the new rule change! It just seems really extreme to me! I love to use paysite content in my downloads and screenshots! It just makes stuff look better! but it also seems you are taking away from the community from showing some of the awesome pay stuff out there, (that can be got free elsewhere)

Jessica

I think you are labouring under a misconception. We are actually not out to "destroy paysites" as you think. We have no wish to be labelled as such. In fact what we are doing is simply saying "do not use pay content in your game becuase there is plenty of free content out there", and to help with this ethos we have introduced these rules.

As I mentioned, some creators who do use a lot of pay content will be affected - but honestly, all you are doing is advertising that paysite when you use thier content on your sims, and also making sure that the vast majority of people can never get the sim in-game looking like your screenshots, becuase they don't have a credit card or paypal. To deliberately say to people "Here is this great sim but you have to pay for this item... and this one..." is really misleading and not at all fair to the downloaders. Is this what you would want?

As for the "pay content that can be gotten for free elsewhere" - sorry but that isn't going to work either. Either use content that was free in the first place, or not at all. In addition, pay content does not neccesarily "make things look better" - there are countless examples of hair that stabs Sims through the chest when they look around, that has huge gaps and reveals thier neck... all pay stuff. Is this the kind of thing you want on your Sim?

This rule change might seem extreme to you - but honestly, only those people who use a lot of pay content on thier Sims, or those that recolour only pay content are really going to be affected, and is it all that hard to find free content to replace it? I don't think so.

[primal_ee]

This is a wonderful change! Because I've seen people complain about pay sites and content, but still go on using it. If you are against it then don't use it! Otherwise what's the point of complaining :rolleyes: ?!

I , personally don't own a single pay item and I love the way my sims and objects look, thanks to you guys here, at MTS ... So... keep up the good work!

PS. I live in a country where 20 $ is about 10% of one's monthly salary... So you tell me if I can afford pay content in my game, when i can barely afford the game itself!

[pauluch3]

Since I have never used any pay content it isn't a great change for me. There is loads of excellent free content out there!

[Vaalyah]

I am extremely disappointed... :blink: I mean, if we want paysite contents, we already know where to find them... But this site was the only place where I was able to find decent colour for some pay hair. I am sad :( (not saying all pay hair are good. I just say SOME pair hair are good, but with bad colours)

[Inge Jones]

Vaalyah, your problem will be solved if you don't use pay meshes :)

[windgirl]

The rationale seems be a 'moral' high ground, and I'm not so sure that's a road, considering the wider implications, this particular site should head down. Understandably, downloading content from a free site that needs a pay mesh is not workable, but the other rules, especially concerning pictures, seem extreme. Respectfully, Windgirl.

[LittleMac]

Thanks for the kind words everybody. They are much appreciated. :)

A general note though - there is a Paysite Debate forum on S2C (http://forums.sims2community.com/forumdisplay.php?f=85) that has all the debates about whether paysites are illegal and EULAs and ethics and all that stuff. Please keep any comments and discussion on these issues to that forum.

We'll go through and clarify any rules that need clarification or if you have any questions don't hesitate to ask.

Thanks
Delphy

I'm going to assume that you would be refering to me, and in which case sorry, I didn't realise!

[crocobaura]

I am extremely disappointed... :blink: I mean, if we want paysite contents, we already know where to find them... But this site was the only place where I was able to find decent colour for some pay hair. I am sad :( (not saying all pay hair are good. I just say SOME pair hair are good, but with bad colours)


People will still make recolours of pay hairs, they just won't post them on MTS. Having so many free recolours of pay items sort of makes MTS look a bit like TSR, just that the meshes are hosted on other sites.

[Nymphy]

I have a question regarding change#3 -' All content must be showcased using free content only' - so we can not use an alpha edit/recolour of a pay mesh in our pictures, even if it this recolour/edit is free?

I think these changes are overall very good, but its just going to get some getting used to. It will be awesome though to go on this site and see all free content :) The way it should be in my view

[Inge Jones]

I have a question regarding change#3 -' All content must be showcased using free content only' - so we can not use an alpha edit/recolour of a pay mesh in our pictures, even if it this recolour/edit is free?

Well you'd be showing the pay mesh in your picture too, not just the free recolour. You can't show a recolour on its own :)

[alexasrosa]

First I want to say I totally agree with free content thing and I never ever use meshes from payed sites

However, I’ve used objects and hairs in the pictures of my clothes (see, for instance http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=236896)

I believe I don’t have to remake these photos, but…in the future…can I use these hairs or not? And the furniture?

Sorry to be so dense, but I don’t want to risk having to make everything from scratch – the set/photo/image making boring stuff.
:(

[Afraid Of Deathi]

Thanks! I find it pretty annoying when people make a beautiful recolour of a paysite mesh, and the majority of people on the site can't download!

[Stormwench]

I think the policy change is a good one, and actually the way it should be so that a free site with a very large following is not used for the 'sucking you in to join a paysite' recolor.

I don't actually think the was a move made to say that all paysite stuff is lacking or to have people post line after line about how they got bad stuff from a pay site and found almost the same but better quality on a free site. It works both ways; I don'y think this was done to protect you from paysite 'bad' items as much as done to keep free of charge every thing you need to make what you download here work.

[whiterider]

First I want to say I totally agree with free content thing and I never ever use meshes from payed sites

However, I’ve used objects and hairs in the pictures of my clothes (see, for instance http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=236896)

I believe I don’t have to remake these photos, but…in the future…can I use these hairs or not? And the furniture?

Sorry to be so dense, but I don’t want to risk having to make everything from scratch – the set/photo/image making boring stuff.
:(

No, uploads from before these new rules will only be affected by the "no pay meshes" rule; not the rules about screenshots. So your old uploads are fine (in fact, wonderful!) - but yes, in future screenshots must contain free content only.

And as a general reassurance to everybody - if you're not sure what's allowed and what's not, and you're worried that you're going to get it wrong, don't worry. If you do get it wrong, your upload will be rejected or changes required, you will be told what to change, and you can then do that. Also, if you have a particular upload you're unclear on, or if you don't know what it is you need to change - make use of the Creator Issues (http://www.modthesims2.com/forumdisplay.php?f=492) forum! :)

[Neithan]

Firstly, I'd like to say that although it would take some extra vigilence and adjustment for those who used to use pay items or meshes in their pictures and/or uploads, I think this is definitiely a good move. MTS2 is one of the most popular go-to places for Sims 2 downloads, so if the site starts to follow these new rules, it should in time lead to a rise in the overall quality of free content being made, and that can't be a bad thing! It may cause some discomfort, but people will most probably learn to adjust given a little bit of time.

I've never bought any pay or donation items, although I have some in my game courtesy of PMBD; which brings me to a question: a while ago, I uploaded a Sim, along with two hair recolours in the same post. One was for a free mesh from XM Sims, and one for a Peggy pay hair mesh. The recolours were uploaded in seperate files from the Sim, who was packaged with Maxis hair. Most of the screenshots had the recolour of the pay mesh, but the first picture on the page shows the Sim with both the free and the pay hair, and I have another attached screenshot of the Sim with all custom content removed too. Even though the Sim doesn't technically need the pay hair, I did mark it as using a paysite mesh since one of the seperate recolours needs it. So after this long winded explanation, my question is, would the Sim be moved to the archive and later removed?

My apologies if the answer should be obvious and I'm just too slow to see it. : ); If it has to be removed from the site, I understand why and have no problems whatsoever with that.

[FFX2player]

I agree, I've always been annoyed when I was a great download, only to find I have to go BUY the mesh! Thanks a lot!

[Lethe_s]

Neithan,
I think, in this specific case, that the pay hair recolour would have to be removed, but obviously not the whole sim.
We will have several cases that are 'in between'. For now, you can just get rid of the one pay recolour and pm one of the staff to get rid of the tag, and all should be well :)

[Neithan]

Thanks for the reply, Lethe_s, will do. : )

[paddebear]

I totally agree with the rules and welcome them all the same. I've turned down some great items due to the fact that I had to pay for a mesh or items from another site. There's a lot great talent here and I make sure I thank everyone for their hard work.

[obsessisim]

I think these new rules will be very helpful, especially to new members. I referred some friends to this site and when they asked me about following links to get all parts to a mesh, or download, I had to quickly warn them that occasionally they might find themselves at a paysite. I'm happy this will no longer be an issue.

[ParsimoniousKate]

I'm very glad to see that you are doing this, perhaps with less promotion of pay content might help to dampen down everyone's deranged obsession with pay sites. A site of this size has a great deal of influence and should use that responsibly for the greater good imo, which in this instance does not include encouraging people to give money to pay sites who are often asking for money under false pretenses.

However: I see many people replying to this thread saying that they are glad they no longer have to see a hair recolor, download it, *then* realize that the mesh is donation-only. I see this problem as very easy to avoid. Uploads requiring donation meshes have a nice little tag at the top, which *should* let downloaders know that they might have to pay to get the mesh. In my opinion, it is the fault of the downloader to not see the tag. I don't see why banning uploads requiring pay meshes should help at all with this particular issue.

You're missing the point. Its not about avoiding member's disappointment because they didn't read the details, its about not PROMOTING pay sites. If you post a download here and provide a link to the pay site who's file is required for the download that pay site benefits even if literally no one visits it because the sheer presence of their link helps their site climb in search engine rankings and search results, ergo more people can find them. And of course in reality it isn't the case that no one would visit, with a large minority of the community being willing to pay for custom content its quite likely the extra exposure of their work on a site like MTS2 will put more money in their pockets from MTS2 visitors.

Also, I have pay content in my game (especially hair, my personal favorite) and I like to see recolors of pay hair meshes up for download. If these recolors are no longer allowed, will I be stuck with the textures of the original mesh creator? I have no ability to recolor these meshes myself, and I doubt that the talented hair recolor-ers will take the time to upload to insimenator.net or another site. And we all know that donation (or free) meshes do not always come with good textures, just as the best hair textures are often made by creators with little or no meshing talent.


Believe it or not there are other free Sims 2 websites besides MTS2 - why not simply look elsewhere for recolours of pay files, there are plenty of sites who do such things, I often see them whilst I'm 'out and about' looking for stuff to post to my site's finds, we don't include them because they need the pay meshes, but they are out there. I certainly can't see why people would simply stop uploading their content anywhere just because *this* site has changed its rules? You could always for example, try contacting some of your favourite creators and find out where they are intending to post their recolours in the future which would save some of the guess work.

[Jessica_2020]

Ok, I went and reread some of your 1st post...I see how you are not "trying to destroy paysites" maybe not right up front, you don't want to "advertise" for pay stuff because it should all be free...

"As I mentioned, some creators who do use a lot of pay content will be affected - but honestly, all you are doing is advertising that paysite when you use thier content on your sims, and also making sure that the vast majority of people can never get the sim in-game looking like your screenshots, becuase they don't have a credit card or paypal. To deliberately say to people "Here is this great sim but you have to pay for this item... and this one..." is really misleading and not at all fair to the downloaders. Is this what you would want?"

And yes, that sucks for creators like me, I doubt I'll upload much if anything at all because I like to use pay stuff in my screenshots!! I admit it! But people don't have to pay for it if they want the sim or house to look like that!
Why would they have to bust out there credit card or paypal, if they don't want to pay for illegal stuff, just go to PMBD, no credit card required!! Honestly, if somebody wants the sim exactly as portrayed in the pics, they can get it, with or without paying for the pay content, their choice!

As for the "pay content that can be gotten for free elsewhere" - sorry but that isn't going to work either. Either use content that was free in the first place, or not at all. In addition, pay content does not neccesarily "make things look better" - there are countless examples of hair that stabs Sims through the chest when they look around, that has huge gaps and reveals thier neck... all pay stuff. Is this the kind of thing you want on your Sim?

You say Pay content may not make things look better, sure, it may not...but usually it does! Most of the great "free" creators have now become pay...be it at TSR or somewhere else! And honestly...do you really think that all that pay stuff is that bad!? Sure I've seen some seriously crappy pay stuff and I can't believe that some creators are trying to get people to pay for it and if people are actually paying for it! But for the most part, that pay stuff is a lot better quality, I'm speaking here mainly hair/furniture wise....(there is still lots of great free furniture out there) Not so much hair though! I'm NOT saying there isn't some great free hair creators out there (I love Nouk, Donny, XM Sims, and I'm sure there's a few other's I can't think of right now) ...there's just not nearly as many great hairs as there is pay ones! (XM Sims is about it for 100% free and they have pretty good hair) You mention gaps in the neck..etc..I have still yet to see one of those famous "gaps in the neck"! Most of the free hair I get as well I have seen some weird animations....

I'm not saying there aren't a lot of talented people out there that create for free! No way am I saying that! There is still a lot of great content out there and on MTS2 that is free, but it seems a lot of the great creators are moving on to other places! I used to come on MTS2 and download like crazy, not so much anymore! Sure I'll still see some pretty good stuff here just not as often!

Well, I hope the best for your site Delphy, hopefully this latest rule change won't have the negative impact on it that I see it as!

anyways, I guess we can always agree to disagree!

Cheers!

[Baskar]

I just have one thing to say.....
Thank you, Thank You, THANK YOU! :)

[aerialla]

Way to go guys. I've never been a fan of TSR for the fact that you never know when their stuff is going to be free or locked. And as someone who has been ripped off before and had identity theft due to an online purchase I never will buy something from a site ever again.

Thanks for keeping this place so great for all of us that relish the free downloads community.

[whiterider]

Jessica_2020, I'm not going to respond to your whole post, because I have nothing I particularly want to say about much of it and I see no reason to further the argument. But I will say this: It is you who is missing the point. This rule change is not about whether or not people have to pay for content. We are very aware, thankyou, of pmbd's existence, and we know full well that we could just add a link to the booty in the Paymesh tag and be done with it. But that would do nothing to aid our purpose - MTS2 is a free site and we will not provide support for creators who charge for their stuff, as it is a practise we disagree with. It doesn't matter whether or not the average downloader can get around that charge - we still do not believe that the charge should exist!
This rule change is about principles, and the ethic of this community - not about our members' pockets. As has been said before, this site is ModTheSims2; and this is one of those times when we are thinking about creators, both pay and free, not downloaders.

EDIT: Also, there are currently nearly 200 uploads awaiting moderation, and that's not including areas like new meshes which don't go through the queue - your comments about quantity of uploads is preposterous.

[pfish]

I have still yet to see one of those famous "gaps in the neck"!

I had read somewhere that said an unnamed paysite hair creator won't fix gaps in the neck and is still selling hairs with gaps in necks. :)

[mac]

I totally agree with your rules regarding pay content. I subscribe $ to MTS2 (everyone should try to if they can) but that's it!

[Mihura]

Yep it's a great addition for the site ! :up: With these rules the free content will be the winner. I hope at least. :jest:
Thank you, MTS2 is the free site, always at the point of the arrow. Great !!! :beer:

[RayeSesshyFan]

Finally, I got tired of seeing some content that were pay. 100% with it.

[Troubledgirl]

MTS2 is the best site out there. I always get annoyed when I find an awsome d/l on here, but the mesh and what not is from a pay site. Rock on MTS2

[lpotter1]

i dont think its fair that everybody is badmouthing paysites there are nothing wrong with pay sites. i happen to have my own pay site and i dont think its right that you people are rude enough to say (death to all paysites) and (paysites are evil). i have a problem with sites that dont share meshes with sites like mts2 for example sims2carsource if you find a car recolor on the sims2resource you cant get it unless you get the mesh from car source they should allow mts2 and s2r to post the original meshes because car resource isnt a paysite but they act like one they should just post an terms and conditions that downloaders have to agree to and if downloaders violate that agreement then they should be banned.

[lpotter1]

oh by the way why did delphy remove qxpress installer now i cant download anything from this site because my computer wont allow the traditional way of downloading sims2 files and its a brand new computer (go figure)

[pfish]

oh by the way why did delphy remove qxpress installer now i cant download anything from this site because my computer wont allow the traditional way of downloading sims2 files and its a brand new computer (go figure)

Q-xpress will be back. Check this link. :)

http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=240437

[Masterofallvideogames]

Ok... I guess, I mean c'mon people why do you pay for downloads!!!!That should be illeagle.

[lpotter1]

so let me guess now everybody hates me because im a owner of a paysite and ive expressed my feelings twoards mts2

[LadyIslay]

so let me guess now everybody hates me because im a owner of a paysite and ive expressed my feelings twoards mts2

Don't be silly, dear. We don't hate you because you're a paysite owner; we hate you because you type illegibly.

Kidding.

Delphy - I like the new rules so much, I'm tempted to cough up a donation for you. I'm sure reinstating the chat room would push me right over the $20 level, though.

[LadyIslay]

Oh crap. Apparently the chat room IS up and running.

*mutters to self while looking for her credit card*

[whiterider]

lol, pwnt Islay :D
And no, lpotter1, we don't hate you - we just think you're seriously misguided, and I think you're being incredibly greedy taking advantage of what should be a for-fun communuity. However, such discussions belong over at S2C (http://forums.sims2community.com).

[Pika]

I'm not sure if I have posted before as I haven't been here or played the sims 2 in years but I've started again and I must thank you for these new rules.

[Meister16]

I love these new rules. I always hate when you see a really cool screen shot or item only to find that you need to get a pay mesh. Paysites are ridiculous.

[Misty_2004]

Yesterday I only got to post a real quick "this is great" type thing so today I'd like to elaborate a little bit.

Delphy, I could just about kiss you and the whole staff for this! *blows kisses all around*

I see many positive things coming from this, not the least of which will be creators will actually have to visit sites with free content to find what they want for their screenshots or to retexture. This is going to be great for all of us who create free CC!

The thing is, there is some absolutely awesome free content floating around, some of it on some fairly obscure sites, but it's definitely there.

Jessica_2020, you said that free sites don't update as often as pay sites do. You know, that's often the case and maybe if we were doing this for our job the sites would get updated more often. Then again, if we were doing this for our jobs, we'd pretty soon have to start charging for content, wouldn't we? Sometimes we have responsibilities that crop up that demand our attention and we have to focus our time and energies on those instead of our websites. That means we can't update as often as we would like but for our visitors who don't mind being patient, we will eventually get around to putting up new stuff. The way I see it, free site owners are providing me a courtesy. If they can't update as regularly as I would like I've no problem with that because they don't owe me anything. :)

[Faerieimp]

I was wondering, is there a list of free sites somewhere, because I've been trying to find sites to download at, but it is a slow process and I get the idea there are more than the dozen or so I've found over the last couple of years.

[Misty_2004]

Faerieimp, there are lists of completely free sites. :) Check the Wiki here as a new list is being built. There is also SailorJune's (http://chukhin.brinkster.net/Lynne/sims/simgroups.html ) and one at our site (www.bogsims.com ) No, this isn't all but this ought to get you started. :)

[Sadisticpyro]

Bravo, Delphy. Bravo.

[missjanaye89]

ok...thanks!!! :)

[tiggerypum]

missjanaye89 - pay hair means when you go to the site that created the hair, you would have to pay for it. MTS2 follows whatever guidelines the initial creator has regarding the distribution of their items. (this includes free items that say 'do not redistribute' - people need to obtain permission if it's a question)

Any other discussions regarding what you think about paysites or policies you can take to sims2community.com, where there is an endless paysite debate in its very own forum.

[Jessica_2020]

Jessica_2020, you said that free sites don't update as often as pay sites do. You know, that's often the case and maybe if we were doing this for our job the sites would get updated more often. Then again, if we were doing this for our jobs, we'd pretty soon have to start charging for content, wouldn't we? Sometimes we have responsibilities that crop up that demand our attention and we have to focus our time and energies on those instead of our websites. That means we can't update as often as we would like but for our visitors who don't mind being patient, we will eventually get around to putting up new stuff. The way I see it, free site owners are providing me a courtesy. If they can't update as regularly as I would like I've no problem with that because they don't owe me anything. :)

Misty - When did I ever say anything like that?? I guess you must be talking bout when I said that MTS2 seems as if it's going downhill!! Well, that's how it's looking to me, and others I've talked to! Not just because of lack of uploads but overall quality and lack of comments is what I said! MTS2 is a big site and I remember when there used to be tons of new uploads daily! Anyways, it doesn't have anything to do with people spending all there time creating to upload here, I just think the lack of updates is from people leaving MTS2 to upload at other places!!!

The only thing that is bugging me about this rule is it's almost like taking away freedom of expression or something like that. I want to be able to use pay content in a screenshot if I want to if it makes something look better, I'll use free content if that makes it look better...I just want the choice, but I guess I no longer have that choice here!

[Zelia Theb]

The only thing that is bugging me about this rule is it's almost like taking away freedom of expression or something like that. I want to be able to use pay content in a screenshot in a pic if I want to if it makes something look better, I'll use free content if that makes it look better...I just want the choice, but I guess I no longer have that choice here

Hi Jessica_2020,

I think there is another way to approach this. If something in a screenshot is pay, it's like false-advertising, because that item can't be obtained on the same site that screenshot is located on.

There are many creators who have gotten replies to their threads (or PMs) that said "Hey, where can I get that ____ in the picture?" If you choose to reply to that, and you link them to a paysite, then you have just advertised for the paysite. This may or may not leave the person disappointed, depending on who they are.

Of course, you don't HAVE to reply. But that just opens the door for that single person, whomever they may be, to go around to ANY forum that has a "where can I find...?" section and find out the answer anyway.

Your last statement concerns freedom of choice. Pay sites limit the choices of players (not everyone is handy with SimPE, or even HomeCrafter for that matter!). MTS2 is great because it serves as a melting pot where people can get together from all over the world and share their creations. There are no limitations, and when one comes along, someone else is able to take it away. I think it's great when I see hacks, items, menus and the like available in other languages. There is something for everyone here (except you Mac users... only kidding :) ). I think that spirit should be maintained and that is why I completely agree with MTS2's new policy concerning pay sites.

Also - creator guidelines want you to upload something great to begin with. Have confidence in your creation - you don't NEED to dazzle it up with all of these other items if your creation is great, right?

The ethics of the pay site is another thing. I am personally against pay sites/donation prizes. However, I am ALSO against sites that violate creators by stealing their work and offering it for free. Greed/bandwidth based or NOT, EVERY CREATOR, pay site or not, does not deserve to have their work stolen from them...mostly because that is most definitely illegal in the real world, and secondly because it is morally wrong in the art world.

All in all, the good definitely outweighs the bad with this decision.

[patul]

Jessica, you are speaking for your own sims interest, a single part of the sims downloads, I don't blame you, you have obviously some good reasons (especially be free of your choice), but think for the global community stuff from neighbourhood, or mods to complete sims or houses.... For the whole MTS2 uploads, what do you think if you forgot the single hair meshing and recolor ? One more time I don't blame you at all, but think about the interest of the whole sims community.

[Baskar]

I'm on a tight budget and I personally cannot afford to get stuff from a pay site. It's called living on a tight budget. I'm just happy enough to be able to have the internet. I'm happy enough to just be able to afford one ep a year. Could be worse...
When I see something that says you need "xxx" from this site and you have to "pay" for it, know what I feel? Depressed and sad. I feel robbed.
Then again, I don't support piracy either. I remember a time (20 years ago) when a person mentioned the words and they'd get a fine of $5000 (or more depending on what was on your computer) and 6 months in jail.

Taking someone else's work is almost like plagiarism and I for one can relate to that. I've had my poetry and personal writings (role playing purposes) not just plagiarized, but put in a book (poetry.com, the morons) and charged to other people, even after I told them not to. And then it took me over a year of red tape just to get my poems removed.

Okay, went slightly off topic, but the point remains the same and I believe I came out loud and clear.

[WykydSyn]

I'm not really sure how I feel about this new rule. Part of me thinks it's rediculous because they're just screenshots (if it's not included in download). Another part of me agrees that free content needs more advertising. My site sure could use the advertising. Free sites are overlooked and taken for granted, especially during this paysite/free debate. I've state my opinion on the debate over at S2C and also on my own Sims 2 site, so I won't get into that.

So I'm on the fence about this one right now. I haven't uploaded here in some time, because I started my own site...and also because I'm obsessed with S2c forum's contests. MTS2 was sort of a starting point for me. I wanted to see if my creations would strike any interest in people, and whether anyone would download them. So after months of successfully sharing my creations, I started my own site. I still love MTS2 and everything that they do here, but until I decide whether I'm for or against the new rules, I'll keep my cc on my website, which you can get to by the link in my signature.

[Delphy]

Jessica, if you want freedom of choice, sorry you aren't going to get it here. When you upload to MTS2 you have to follow the rules we set out, and these rules aren't going to change. That this affects your own personal opinion of MTS2 really is inconsequential to the overall picture.

lpotter1, let me ask you this - do you run a paysite to pay for bandwidth or server bills or to make money? If it's the former, how much bandwidth do you use a month? What are you paying for it? There are plenty of ways to either cut down or otherwise get cheaper hosting, thus meaning less money going out, which means it's easier to find via donations. MTS2, after all, has 8 servers dedicated to it, with 15TB bandwidth and costs well over $1500 a month to keep going, so using the bandwidth/server excuse really doesn't cut it. If, however, you are in it for the money then may I suggest you instead try selling your meshes on turbosquid or something similar? That way it's legal, you get money, and you dont have half the community not liking you much. :)

[dilitru]

Another change for a free community. Thanks Delphy!

[The Angry Mob]

Good rules. No more getting excited for nothing. :D

Yours Truly, Angry Mob.

[RiotGirlK]

Brilliant!

There have been many times I have found a hair recolour I wanted, only to discover it was a pay mesh from PeggySims. :cry:

[KalicoKat]

Another part of me agrees that free content needs more advertising. My site sure could use the advertising. Free sites are overlooked and taken for granted...

Nice site, WykydSin! :)

There are ways to let your site be more well-known. For example, you can exchange links with other sites instead of just linking to them on your end. You can also speak to other creators about using their stuff in your screenshots and maybe even work out a deal with small or new sites where you use their stuff and they'll use yours. Also, maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to continue uploading to this site so that you can get more exposure (especially if you keep the link to your site in your sig ;) ).

You can also join the Free Sites Toplist @ http://freesimsites.gotop100.com/index.php

If you do join, you can put a button or a link on your front page and ask people to vote for you.

Good luck. :)

[Mirablu]

I guess I'm really in the minority in not liking all of these rule changes.
Most notably, I'm opposed to "no paysite items on Sims". It's understandable for when a user is posting a packaged Sim, but it seems to be a little much for, say, a paysite hair on a Sim that's in the pictures of a clothing download. (Then again, for a clothing download, maybe it's best to just crop the faces off of the Sims entirely, since that's not what the person is there to see.)

But, so many people seem gung-ho for it that my opinion hardly seems to matter, here- so, "good luck with the rule change".

Either way: does this mean creators who have posted screenshots that prominently feature pay (hair/makeup/etc.) will have to retake their screenshots, or else have their download relegated to "the archive"?

[JohnBrehaut1]

Mirablu, they stated that they neither have to retake their screenshots or put them in the archive. :) The ones that already have pay content in the pictures will be left as they are, only the new uploads may not have pay content in their pictures.

[SimVeggie]

This is Wonderful news!! Thank you so much to Delphy and staff for all the hard work you do, and a bigger thanks because you just increased your work load. You'll certainly need the thanks, because I cannot imagine how much work this is going to be.

My biggest pet peeve has always been those beautiful sims, all decked out in pay site or unavailable things. Then you download the sim and its plain Maixs hair, and you realize that there was so much going on in the preview that you didn't realise that the sims itself was nothing special. Now with everything on the sim being free, you really know what you are getting!

Thank you so much for promoting free sites!

[zentaraxia]

Great news. I always knew there was a reason this is my only subscription.

Paysite stuff may look great in screenshots but if you play the game it is not so good.

[JDT99]

Yes, yes, very good rule. Personally I'd like to see it expanded so that EVERYTHING needed for the download must be on MTS2. There are several beautiful items on the site that require downloads from websites that no longer exist. Sic transit gloria mundi.

[evip]

Well, I have offered a number of free creations at MTS2 and I am feeling really sorry that this fight berween pay/non pay sites does not gives me a choise. I love to have choises in my life and this is the way I live for more than half a century. When I create something I just give it away to people that can have it paying or not. This is a choise too. When I sign either here or at TSR or at The Sims Fashion Barn I am very much aware of what I sign. Nobody can manipulates me. This is the reasom I did not delete my items here at MTS2. They BELONG to MTS2 because I have decided so when I uploaded them and it is only MTS2 that can delete them.

I am going on Vacations the day after tomorow till the end of August so I wish you all a Great Summer! Hugs

[KalicoKat]

Well, I have offered a number of free creations at MTS2 and I am feeling really sorry that this fight berween pay/non pay sites does not gives me a choise. I love to have choises in my life and this is the way I live for more than half a century. When I create something I just give it away to people that can have it paying or not. This is a choise too. When I sign either here or at TSR or at The Sims Fashion Barn I am very much aware of what I sign. Nobody can manipulates me. This is the reasom I did not delete my items here at MTS2. They BELONG to MTS2 because I have decided so when I uploaded them and it is only MTS2 that can delete them.

I can't speak for anybody on here, but I think Delphy made this new rule to promote freesites. This isn't about war or fighting but to simply showcase the free content within the community.

I'm not trying to have a go at you, I just think that you might have misunderstood the message (which can be easy to do if English isn't our first language). It's not a reflection on you, all he's asking is that pay content isn't shown in screenshots or that pay meshes not be included in the downloads. :)

Btw...great changes, Delphy! :up:

[FallenAngel72792]

Thank GOD.

I'm sick of finding something awesome,
getting really worked up about it,
and then finding out that something inside is a PAY ONLY ITEM. :faceslap:

NO ONE SHOULD HAVE TO PAY FOR PIXELS!

Thank you, so much.

[doodlebug828]

I am so happy to see that pay content is no longer accepted!
I've been so frustrated for quite awhile for having to pay to get quality Sims content, and now I know that I can always rely on MTS2 without breaking the bank. Thank you so much!

[igloolik]

awesome! I can't stand having to go to another site to find a mesh for something I want to download, then finding I (essentially) have to pay to use the recolor. It's irritating, and now it's gone. The itching scab has fallen off, and now only a scar is left that will slowly fade away.

[EternalDarkness]

I'm not complaining, so please don't mis-understand this as such.

I think that supporting free sites is a great idea, because as I've recently started downloading again (yes I have a problem with downloading even when not playing) I have come across a lot of free sites that are awesome and don't have the member counts that they should have. I think it's an excellent idea, and it does tend to be a bit annoying when looking at a wonderful hair re-color only to find that you will have to pay for the mesh to actually make it appear in your game.

Yes I know there is PMBD that you could get said mesh from, but that isn't the point of this and I see what the staff at MTS is getting at. Even putting the link to that up still promotes you to check out the site that it came from, thus giving a lot of attention to another pay site.

What I disagree with is this though.

They are in fact pictures that have pay content in them. If the actual download it's self features all free content what does it matter what is in the background? If the sim is uploaded with Maxis hair or a free hair than why does it matter if the hair they might wear in a picture is a pay hair?

In away I see what Jessica meant in what she was saying, for those people that upload items and create things to be shared in the community why should it matter if some of the content in the picture isn't free? Doesn't that in a way stiffle the creativity of those people that have pay content? I'm not saying that the rule is a bad one either, but what I'm saying is that making sure there isn't a single peice of pay content in a picture and thus having to re-do and upload based soley on that might well be a turn off to some people. It takes away from the joy of sharing ones work with the rest of the community when they have to worry if their picture has something in it that's pay content or not. It just seems to be more stress on the creators than anything else.

Again this isn't meant to be an arguement or to make truoble or upset anymore, after reading the thread you wanted opinions on the new rules and this is mine.

The rules themselves are excellent the promoting of free content is something that needs to be done because most free sites seem to get over shadowed. In no way am I saying that pay content is any better than free because in a lot of ways it isn't, after all one of my favorite hair creators is Noukie. What I disagree with is the pictures, after all with some of that are like me and have been playing since the Sims 2 was released what if they don't remember it being pay. It's just a lot of work and hassle for something as small as a picture.

[Sianne]

Way to go, Delphy and co. I disagree with paysites because EA disagrees with paysites. Simple as that. I could go into all the other reasons, such as why we should nurture talent, and it's greedy to expect people to pay for something that you could essentially learn to do yourself, blah blah blah, but other people have already covered it.

[Mistermook]

You're not just "sharing your work" when you publish something on MTS2 though, you're agreeing to follow certain rules. If you're really intent on putting up something a certain way then you're always welcome to start up your own site with your own rules, but there's ALWAYS been rules at MTS2 about what you can or cannot promote and how.

This isn't a democracy, and unless someone is suggesting that MTS2 is suddenly going to lose all of the thousands of visitors it gets I don't see a really compelling argument for the admins to run the site as they see fit - like they always have.

BTW, Thanks for running the site guys. You all do a great job.

[Inge Jones]

If the sim is uploaded with Maxis hair or a free hair than why does it matter if the hair they might wear in a picture is a pay hair?


Because it gives the message "If you want your model to display your free clothes attractively, use a pay hair on her"

If it's the dress you're advertising, you might as well put the Maxis bald head on your model.

[cereja-chan]

Sorry if this has been asked before, but I couldn't find the answer.
The recolors/sims etc with pay content uploaded prior to these rules, they will be moved to an archive, right? But after moving them all to this archive, what will happen to these downloads? Will they be deleted forever? Will they be offered to be re-uploaded on another site? Will they be stored on MTS2's servers?

I agree plenty with the new rules, and always thought it was a contradiction that MTS2 would not support paysites (and vice versa, right, TSR?) but would provide free ad space. Sure, it was a "crack in the system" rather than a billboard, but still...

However, deleting forever content that (1)was made before the whole paysite vs freesite debate even came up and (2) doesn't exist anywhere else anymore is a bit harsh, too... maybe the creators of such content should be PM'ed? Maybe send these creations to the Exchange (so that EA will pay for paysites's advertisement rather than us)?

[Misty_2004]

Jessica, either I misunderstood or something someone else wrote stuck in my head as coming from you. I'm sorry about that. :)

Here's the problem with having pay content even in pictures. I see something that I'd like to download and I don't just check out the picture of the actual item but I also look at all the cool stuff in the screenshot as well. Some of it I recognize, some of it I don't so I start asking questions about where to find the things I don't recognize and if it's from a pay site: BINGO! There's an instant link to a pay site for getting it.

This is the exact reason I took everything out of my game that came from pay sites, even sites that are mainly free but with a few donation sets, because I was afraid I would end up sending someone to get something where they might not know better and pay actual money in exchange for content. For example, if I enter a house in a contest it seems extremely hypocritical if I put a disclaimer at the bottom of the credit list telling people not to actually go to the sites I just showcased because in actuality it's a pay site when I'm trying to get people to quit using pay content.

Can you (speaking figuratively) imagine if everyone who visits MTS2 simply removed every pay file or file that came from a pay site from their game? I mean I've been here at times when there are thousands of people on this site. Imagine if every one of them took a "just say no" to pay content stance, no matter from where it came, or even if they do use it in their game absolutely refuse to show it in a screenshot of any kind, whether it's in a story or a screenshot for downloads or whatever. This could feasibly evolve into a huge, permanent boycott of pay sites by tens of thousands of players (possibly more).

The thing is, when we use files that are from fileshare sites, we're only reinforcing in the pay site creator's mind that what they're doing is acceptable because there's still a demand for their creations. These people see their creations in screenshots which validates it even more.

Anyway, I'm probably getting completely off-topic here (sorry about that because I don't want to bring the debate here) and I need to get my fingers working on something for updating our site shortly. LOL

[sim-potato-711]

great idea! it frustrates me greatly when i see five new recolor sets for a bunch of hairs that look great, but i go to download and they're from a paysite! for the majority of us rabid paysite-haters, these uploads are just in the way.

the only thing i don't really like it the rule that we have to pm the creator to ask where they got the hair on the model sim, etc. i always found it helpful to scroll through the comments and find someone else who asked and got an answer already... other than that, its a good movement!

[whiterider]

cereja-chan, the archived uploads will be permanently deleted after a few weeks.
And to your suggestion - many of the creators of pay recolours/pay required sims etc on MTS2 no longer visit here nor support their creations, some may have PMs switched off, some will simply ignore any PMs... there are many, many such uploads here and I can assure you the staff do not have time to go through every single one, and PM the creator. For this same reason sending such uploads to somewhere else would be impossible - after all, we're not going to steal uploads from our own site and put them on the Exchange... and there is no reason to do so anyway. Who said this was about paying for paysite advertisement?
Also, I'm not sure what the purpose of PMing these creators would be... it's rather difficult to "fix" a pay recolour so it doesn't require a pay mesh ;)

[amadeus451]

I'm 100% behind this rule. It has been a source of near constant frustration to see something that I'd love to have in my game, only to find that I have to get a sub to another site to get the meshes. Bravo, MTS2 staff & thank you in advance for making my downloading experience here that much more pleasant.

[sherlee_80]

The staff of MTS2 has put a lot of time and effort into this site. They clearly have the downloaders and uploaders in mind. Both for the whole simming community and for the individual person.

This site was originally created to provide free content, and they just want to keep it that way. If you don't mind paying a few dollars for your sim stuff. There are many places where you can find it, but not here.

Thank you for all the hard work, and truely making this site the best out there.

[Jessica_2020]

In away I see what Jessica meant in what she was saying, for those people that upload items and create things to be shared in the community why should it matter if some of the content in the picture isn't free? Doesn't that in a way stiffle the creativity of those people that have pay content? I'm not saying that the rule is a bad one either, but what I'm saying is that making sure there isn't a single peice of pay content in a picture and thus having to re-do and upload based soley on that might well be a turn off to some people. It takes away from the joy of sharing ones work with the rest of the community when they have to worry if their picture has something in it that's pay content or not. It just seems to be more stress on the creators than anything else.
.

Thank you Eternal Darkness...My thoughts exactly (although maybe it didn't come out like that?)!! It is tougher on the creators..I upload to a few different places and having to redo screenshots or whatever just to make sure no pay content is pictured seems just too time consuming and silly to me! So I totally agree whole-heartedly with what you have said!

[Canoodle]

Sorry you think this is 'silly', but it is now the rule and it is not going to change for you or anybody else. This change benefits the community as a whole. And, while it may be a bit of an inconvenience for a few people, the benefits to the community as a whole are definately worth it. :)

[Canoodle]

I may not be a creator...but I am staff and do my fair share of work on this site giving countless hours to help make this site run and giving help when needed (mostly behind the scenes). And I agreed with the rest of the staff in implementing this rule. We have almost a million registered members...most of which are not creators. Can those people not voice their opinions, or just the creators who use pay content? By the way, I have every right to speak my mind, just the same as any other registered member.

Oh, and flaming a moderator is probably not a good idea ;)

[lpotter1]

guess what after reading everybodys replys to my message and knowing that im not hated here im going to revamp my site for all free content and simply ask for a dontaion for larger thing like houses and other buildings that are very time consuming

[roxxy]

Can I ask a moderator how long 'is a couple of weeks', I just need some clarification on the timeframe..

The reason being as I am neck deep in studies right now and it would take a lot of time to change the preview images on all my uploads. I went and 'pixelated' the heads of a few of the sims modeling the outfits today as that seemed the quickest way to tackle this.

Is this sort of 'fix' to the images sufficient. I would rather do that to all my images than try and sort out my 'hair' folder to pay/free files, as it takes quite a while to upload everything all over again and even worse to go back into the game and create new images. I suppose I could just totally cut off their heads too, but that might look odd. LOL


OT: LPotter, hope it all works out well for you and you keep enjoy sharing in the free community.

[whiterider]

ooga booga, if you actually have a reasonable point to make about the content of the new rules, then do so, if not, then you have nothing to post about.

lpotter1, excellent! Our policy isn't that paysite owners are evil, nor that paysites are evil... and I can say for myself, as well as the staff, that it's a great pleasure to see you go free :)

roxxy, a couple of weeks will most likely be 2-3, depending on how long it takes for things to be moved etc. But we're certainly happy to make allowances for people who don't have the time/resources/etc to fix stuff now, but will do soon. In such cases, a thread in Creator Issues (http://www.modthesims2.com/forumdisplay.php?f=492) would probably be best, so as to avoid wandering off topic here :)

EDIT: My sincerest apologies, I'm being stupid - there's no need to worry, as only uploads which require pay items, not uploads with pay stuff in screenshots, will be removed. Of course the above still applies to anyone who, for example, is planning to repackage a sim sans pay content.

[roxxy]

EDIT: My sincerest apologies, I'm being stupid - there's no need to worry, as only uploads which require pay items, not uploads with pay stuff in screenshots, will be removed. Of course the above still applies to anyone who, for example, is planning to repackage a sim sans pay content.

Awesome!.. if I am reading this correctly then I don't have to worry about altering any more of my uploads as I have not recoloured any items that need to be paid for to have access to. Thanks.

[Misty_2004]

Ooga Booga, why don't you visit the topic of discussion here (http://forums.sims2community.com/forumdisplay.php?f=85) for a while. You can even post your opinions on pay sites and all the work in creating things there. :)

lpotter1, maybe you could read there too and if you need help on having your site completely free (as in no donation sets, generating the funds needed to cover your hosting) there are people who will gladly give you a helping hand. We :lovestruc free sites. :)

[flyingpigeon]

Don't advertise for paysites then! Advertise for anti-paysites!

As posted by HystericalParoxysm.
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s109/pigeonator/070720024748-ReplyFromEA.jpg

I would describe free content as something I got for free. I get all my pay content for free. Now, if links were allowed to PMBD or SFV, then maybe people wouldn't be stupid enough to go buy a sub after seeing someone like Bruno use pay content.

Honestly, I don't play the game! I create and I take pictures. I know the content isn't that great, but it looks okay in pictures, so why should I care? Like I said, I got it for free. Free content isn't necessarily better quality than pay, nor is pay necessarily better than free content... and it really doesn't matter to me, because once again, I got it all for free. Restricting what I can put in pictures is absolute crap, because I have so much of both, it's hard to tell what is free and what is pay.

Most of the people that aren't happy - as in the people who aren't terrified that they'll get in trouble for posting their honest opinion in a polite manner (wow, this seems really familar for me!) - are in fact, anti-paysite.

Is PMBD promoting paysites? Because there sure is plenty of pictures of pay content! But for some reason, I'm guessing most people from PMBD don't buy subs to paysites.

[Delphy]

ooga booga, I'm sorry you don't like the rules, and as a Sim creator obviously you feel it hits you hard, but this is an issue that is not going to go away and the rules will stay as-is. We discussed them for a month prior to this news item and tackled the issue from many angles. Yes, we realise that people who make sims wont like it (aka you and Jessica) but honestly, all you are doing is promoting paysites. We at MTS2 would like to see you instead promote free sites by not using pay content at all, and we would also like to extend this service to our downloaders by allowing them to get everything needed for that Sim without having to pay a cent! Surely you would like the same thing?

It might be "taking away some of your creative liberties" but in all honesty it's merely saying to look elsewhere for content posted on Sims.

Here's the bottom line: These rules will NOT be changing If you still wish to upload Sims with pay recolours on them - do it elsewhere, and not on MTS2.

Is that clear enough for you?

[Delphy]

flyingpigeon, No, we will not be advertising for "anti-paysites". We are taking a stance that people should use free content, not content-that-was-pay-that-somebody-happens-to-host-for-free. By using the latter you still send the message that paysites are ok becuase it has to be bought in the first place.

We would much rather people use free content wherever possible, and thats the entire basis this site, the tutorials, the tools and all the help that goes on in the entire custom content community is built upon.

As a creator you only need to be aware of what items you use in you creations, and what is in the pics. It's not "absolute crap", it's common sense and complying with the rules.

[whiterider]

As I have said before... this is not about our members' pockets! I think we've made it clear enough on many occasions that we disagree with the idea of paysites, and that, whether or not a downloader can get around a charge for content, we believe they should not have to! flyingpigeon, we never said we would follow whatever EA said to the letter: generally one would expect the views of a group of free artists, coders, and general techy-people to be different from those of a huge corporation!
I guess what I'm trying to say is; we're not interested in how much and where and between who money changes hands in return for content, as staff we're more aware than most of the wonderful free content that can be found because we are in charge of quality-checking every single item that is posted here. The reason for these rules is a belief of principle and, the fact that one can acquire pay content for free, does not in our eyes keep it from being pay content.

[vividmiss]

Tiggerypum thank you very much for the reply to my question :) I'm going to be uber cheesy for a moment and say how much I love this site. When I first started playing the Sims way back, I was lucky that this was the first cc site I found, and it's been my home ever since. You couldn't ask for more and yet we are always getting upgrades and changes that make this site better and better...even tho it was awesome to begin with. I don't post very much so I've never really show my gratitude, so Thank You to all the mods for all the work you do and everything you have given, and continue to give us :D

[Mihura]

I forget to add something the other day. These new rules allow to have more equality between the creators. :up: If they have to use only free content to show their works, a creation will not be considered more nice with more beautiful (but pay) details (like hair for present a cloth for exemple). :P
It's another good point for me. ;)

[ooga booga]

delphy i think you misunderstood me i have nothing against all the new rules it was just those two rules i dislike but i understand it does in a way promote pay sites and though i have nothing against pay sites some people do and it is understandable.

[mike19]

i like the new rule,could take a week or two to get to grips with though. I don't use paysites i dont see the point when theres plenty free stuff. Also it did become a bit annoying to download a sim follow a link to a supposed free mesh or recolor only to find it's either been removed or moved to a pay section or worse it was a pay item any way. i downloaded pay stuff when i first started playing the sims2 but i no longer have it it's either lost (deleted) or swamped in my downloads folder. So it comes to a point why pay if i cant identify it. Atleast with mts2 i can keep track or go back in a couple of clicks and download again. Also i can keep track very easy my own creations.

[fairywasteland]

Oh, one more thing... I have a lot of content in my DL folder (A whole lot, lol) and if I accidently put up a screenie with a pay item in it will my upload be rejected? Or will I get some sort of penalty?... I'm not planning on trying to beat the system or anything, lol, I just tend to be forgetful.

[zentaraxia]

I have been following this and the other thread from the start and am amazed at the number of people who don't donate here yet are willing to pay for (poor quality) cc and meshes.

[ridBonnie]

The main problem I have with paysites is that all too frequently you download something only to find that the zip file is in a format that your unzip can't read or says the file is corrupt or some such and there you have paid your money for nothing. Bad advertising for pay/donation sites if you ask me.

[Marbi]

Great change. One thing that has irritated me is when the things you like and want has a mesh on a paysite.

[Delphy]

lpotter, may I ask why you say "all free" and then say your lots will still be donation only in the same sentence? Are you suggesting that you are somehow entitled to get money becuase of the time you put into making content? May I kindly suggest you put all items for free either on your own site or on a larger site becuase otherwise it's a smack in the face to people who spend days on a lot and give it for free when you think you are some better than them and can charge.

[$RaMRoM$]

Great rules! i think they are fair!

[llamapiccolo]

I was totally with you guys on this one... until Rule 3.

Heaven forbid the sim whose modeling my clothing has *gasp* a Peggy donation skin! *shields eyes*

I mean, with certain file sharing sites being more or less common knowledge, it this really a huge problem?

But whatev. I'll still upload here, lmao.

[SHOPxADDICTED]

Okay. This new rules are making me SO angry.

Why can't we show paystuff in our preview pics?!

[whiterider]

fairywasteland, there won't be a penalty, no, as I'm sure many people will make mistakes. Your upload will most likely be labelled changes required.

SHOPxADDICTED, because you are on a free site, wherein we only provide and advertise free content. look back through previous posts - you'll see several lengthy explanations of the whole thing.

[Misty_2004]

Maybe this suggestion will help someone when it comes to keeping free stuff sorted from pay. I'm assuming some of you have one version of your game on your PC and are using that for when you make things. If that's the case, there's a super easy way around it. Go to My Documents and rename your EA Games folder to something like EA Games-Play (or whatever you use that version for). Now start your game and at this point it will generate an entirely new EA Games folder. Use this version of your game for creating and taking pictures of what you'll upload here. Fill its Downloads folder with free content if you feel the need to use it in your screenshots, but this way there'll be no mistake--everything in that version of your game will be acceptable. :)

I have three versions on my computer. Each one on its own takes about 200 megs of space so it's not much extra. Some of the files in each version tend to duplicate files in the other versions but not a lot. In my case one is for creating, one for building and one for playing. In the Create game I keep custom meshes I want to retexture and of course my projects I'm working on. When I need to check them in the game it only takes a minute or so for the game to load and I can easily find them because I don't have a ton of CC in there to wade through. Only after I'm finished and screenshots are taken, do the files get moved to my play game. The reason I have a different Build game is because when I build a lot for upload it either has very little CC (that I know I can distribute) or things I've made so I know I'm not going to accidentally put something in the house that shouldn't be there.

When you're ready to start up a different version of your game, like to play, just rename the current EA Games folder to EA Games-Create and name EA Games-Play back to EA Games. That's all there is to it. I only wish I'd have known about this long before I did because it's made things so much simpler.

[whiterider]

Yup, Misty, that's a technique that's useful for a lot of things - lot builders tend to have a global-hack-free game, for example, and certainly did pre-clean installer. I normally have The Sims 2-test and The Sims 2-play, but currently I have the above, plus Copy of The Sims 2-test, The Sims 2-base, and of course "The Sims 2-whatthefrackoneisthis" :lol:

[InPinkClover]

Wow, I think you guys have been reading my mind! I've spent a lot of time here lately (again) and was thinking how much I hate seeing something to download only to find out that I would have to pay for the orig mesh (bad enough when we have to search for meshes on free sites! lol).

Thanks for all the work you are putting into MTS2. I can honestly say that I would not still be playing TS2 if it were not for being able to easily find everything I want on one site. :gjob:

[xproffesor23]

I honestly think this is ridiculous. Okay, you don't support paysites, we understand that, however this won't help in the long run.

I come to MTS2 to get high quality items, recolors, clothes, and all that. Often times, I find great recolors of a mesh coming from paysites, even better than the paysite can make. So now I have to deal with the mediocre recolors, when I could have a great recolor from some extremly talented recolorer here. I'm not saying that free meshes aren't great or anything, but there are still a bunch of amazing mesheres who are pay.

And like okay, I can almost understand the no recolors part, but not having a pay item in your picture is simply crazy. Who cares if I paid, or didn't pay for an earring seen in a picture advertising makeup, or I paid for a couch that's in a picture advertising skintones. Eh, this really just doesn't make sense..

[whiterider]

As I said earlier, this time we're not thinking about downloaders. This move is one we've made because of a principle, that we won't provide advertising space for something we disagree with. When you say that it won't help in the long run, what do you mean? What will it not help, and what should it be supposed to help? We're not expecting to make some massive dent in the community with this - this is the staff, adjusting the way the site works to how we think it should work.

[Christine11778]

:) MTS2 being the largest free site (with the exception of the exchange?) in the community I always thought it was a little odd to allow recolors of pay meshes and pay content used in photos. I like the new policy change.

[ooga booga]

okay I see the arguement here but, not all paysites are "poor quality" that is a stereotype. but for the main arguement it is a bit strange to reject something because of a pay item in the pic how is the user going to know it came from a pay site to begin with unless the uploader talks about it or the user has been to the pay site(i'me talking about if it's not required)?

[whiterider]

Well, people do talk about it... you see "wcif that?" posts in threads a lot...

[wanda1000]

since so many uploads containing "pay items" will no longer be made available for downloading, it sure gives an added benefit of freeing up space.

[plasticbox]

now I have to deal with the mediocre recolors

Oh my god, another one.

What in the world makes you think you've got any right to this kind of attitude? The folks who run mts2 are providing a service to you, for free, and voluntarily. YOU are profiting from it. This is THEIR site here. Therefore, THEY are making the rules, and you can take it or leave it. Understood?

[billielith]

tiggerypum said
Existing screenshots that had pay items in them will still be allowed on site.

Well I am glad, and I hope it will remain that way, because there's a lot of GREAT free items here displayed with *optional* pay items. It would be bad to remove them just because they have that piece of pay content on their pictures.



I am happy to hear that the new uploads will be 'clean', with 0% pay content, even on the pics. I think 'what you see is what you get' pictures will simplify things for downloaders.

I visit MTS2 a lot, as creator but as downloader too, and I have been to paysites after seeing their stuff in the pictures of some free content here. I didn't subscribe, and I won't, I'm not interested. I can't say that I haven't been tempted. But when I see a site charging, I'm like, is this THAT better than the other ones that I can get for free? my answer until now has been no.

I think the new rules are an improvement. 100% free content in the pics will show people that their game can be better with custom content, without them having to pay for it.

[pyxee]

Thanks so much for this.
I will admit for a second I was on the fence about the rule that you can't have pay items in pictures at all but then I got to thinking about it. MTS2 is a free site and everything here is supposed to be free, and since lots of us are on budgets when you put even on pay item in your picture, sure its not needed for the download but it's kinda like telling a kid in candy store that everything is free except ... that one thing.

[Symanteco]

The biggest paysite is EA! Their STUFF packages are crap compared to most user made objects, yet I don't see anyone complaining about paying $20 for what you can get better for free or a whiole lot cheaper - even at paysites.

I hate this US against THEM attitude regarding paysites. If you want to create things and give them away - fine, but you don't have a right to condemn those who charge. It's extremely hypocritical when you pay $20 for an EA inferior STUFF-PACK.

Some people are able to pay their rent and/or feed their kids because of posting their creations on paysites...and THIS site, as great as it is (when it works) has issues primarily because it is not a paysite (bandwidth issues).

The Sims Resource NEVER has problems like the ones here. Why? Because they pay a premium price for bandwidth, which is offset by their paying members.

I love this site (when it works - which is becoming less and less frequently) like today. Sure I can LOOK at great free stuff - but try to download it!

I'd rather pay $2-$5 a month just to get better bandwidth so I CAN download without wondering - is MTS2 gonna work today?

[tiggerypum]

Excuse me, but I am clear that Delphy did not say 'we hate paysites' in the site policy.

What the site policy is is moving more and more to 'what you see is what you get' (this is aside from whatever particular staff members feel about the issue) 'What you see in the screenshots is what you get in the download' has been and ongoing issue we've been addressing.

Now we're adding - 'what you see is something you CAN get' - which has to do with download shots that *feature* pay content prominently not doing so anymore. Because yes, people ask, and it is disappointing at best to find that the hair on the model is pay.

A small table in the background of a shot is not a big deal, but really, the screenshots are supposed to be about the clothing or whatever it is anyway. Yet people ask (and sometimes without even a comment on the clothing) 'Where did you get that hair'. People see, they'd like to get. We want to make that easy and clean.

MTS2 is free. We've made that commitment loud and clear. We're working on the downloading issues, and they will be better again, this goes in cycles.

And I will note that you (Symanteco) appear to not be a subscriber to MTS2. Good for you to complain about access and how you'll gladly pay TSR because they won't LET you have good stuff w/o paying - yet you feel that complaining instead of say, subscribing, is the answer here. Nice double standard.

[Symanteco]

tiggerypum,

Now that you've got all that out of your system...

I wasn't speaking about Delphy's post, but some of the responses.

As far as being a subscriber, I have no idea what you're talking about. I've been visiting this site for nearly two years and never saw anything about subscribing. I gladly donate to sites that I use frequently, and I believe I've donated to this site also.

I'm not knocking MTS2, just addressing some of the US against THEM attitude of some of the responders.

[Canoodle]

Go to the home page. There is a big blue button called "Donate". You can't miss it. :)
Here, let me help you-
http://www.modthesims2.com/donate.php

It costs quite a chunk of change to run this site. Anything anyone can contribute is always appreciated. Thanks.

[Symanteco]

I've clicked it before and I'll click it again, because the site is well worth it, and though this is a FREE site, if users who use it a lot would support it - we could probably get rid of all these bandwidth/download issues.

[tiggerypum]

Symanteco - people have all sorts of responses, as they do actually to _any_ site policy announcement. And the topics usually veer off some from the whatever the mts2 announcement is to topics that are only loosely related. At least MTS2 allows links to TSR, while they don't in return (with a shabby excuse).

The site used to have donate banners running frequently until we changed the ad layout. I know because I made some of them. I see Canoodle already gave you a link.

Just FYI, people who do choose to support the site financially with scheduled monthly payments get a that little gray simoleon symbol under their name, which is how I guessed you aren't donating (or not monthly at least) - while you said you would willing give $$ to TSR.

I think people can support the site in many ways, let me be clear. Being a good 'citizen' on site - helpful to other members, saying 'thanks' and such - that means a LOT. Seriously. More than $$, I want people working to make MTS2 one of the places they LIKE to visit, with creators and members who are helpful.

So don't think I'm all about money, I'm not. But when I see MTS2's commitment to equal free access for all called 'hypocritical', 'unrealistic' or 'inferior' to TSR or some other site, well then yes, I am going to put it out there. You value the site, you value the free stuff, and _if you can afford_ to support it, then consider doing so. Because it's worth it to you (as might be donating/subscribing to some other site.)

Anyway, I am glad that the downloads including the screenshots that present them will focus more on things that all our members can access. Because we are about that, letting people share their creations freely, and if MTS2 can also help folks find other free content (because we are not the only free site, lol), then I think it's great.

PS - I also spend time helping folks learn to make their OWN content, but that's not on topic for this site announcement either, although for me it is a big part of what mts2 is about.

[helaene]

delphy, tig, and all the mods: i have the utmost respect for you. thank you for all that you do for the community!

Oh my god, another one.

What in the world makes you think you've got any right to this kind of attitude? The folks who run mts2 are providing a service to you, for free, and voluntarily. YOU are profiting from it. This is THEIR site here. Therefore, THEY are making the rules, and you can take it or leave it. Understood?

amen, plasticbox....these people should be glad i'm not a mod. let's just say that patience is not my strongest virtue.... lol

[Dr Pixel]

As a creator myself I am usually against any sort of restrictions, but these new rules are a great idea and I fully support them.

[Delphy]

I think all the questions have been answered thus far, and peoples sentiments made clear.

If you want to discuss the whys, wherefores and other details about paysites then please join in the discussions on the Sims 2 Community: http://forums.sims2community.com/forumdisplay.php?f=85

Thanks to all who responded, either positively or negatively. I'm going to lock this now.

Regards
Delphy