Twilight: Horrible or Perfection?

[OMGnoWAY0752]

Here I go...

Twilight. There are three major problems with the Twilight series. I'll put them in nice little bulleted paragraphs for you. :)

1. Edward and Bella's ABUSIVE (yes, abusive) relationship
Edward's kind of an obsessive psychopath. He watches her sleep for christ's sakes! He uses force, intimidation and coercion to control Bella's actions. He manipulates her into marrying him, which is something she REALLY doesn't want to do. He hides important information from her, and he breaks her heart to "protect her" when truly, better protection would've been to stay with her.

2. The lack of depth in the characters
Edward. Edward, Edward, Edward. He is the most shallow character I've ever read about. Ever! He is two dimensional - no - one dimensional. He has one side. He is a vampire. He is sexy. He is charming and witty and intelligent and pefect. Okay, we get it. Where are his flaws? He has none! One might say "Oh, he's a vampire! You know, a killer and stuff!" That doesn't count as a flaw. That's as silly as saying in a book about aliens that being an alien is a flaw! Where is the logic in this book? There is none!
And Bella! She is flat. Flat, flat, flat. She's a human. She is plain. She is in love with a vampire. She's about as interesting as an earthworm. And her emo phase in New Moon? I wanted to claw my eyes out so I wouldn't have to read anymore about her "holding herself together". She's nothing but a parasite. She needs another person to survive. First Edward, then Jacob, then Edward again. Ugh. She makes me sick.
Jacob is seriously the deepest character in the books! I'm still team Jacob. Oh, and I think it's super creepy that he imprinted on Renesme.

3. The pace is way too fast
Waayy too many things happen in a very short amount of time. It's almost like being on a rollercoaster.
I can't even begin to explain.

It sucks that I wasted five months of my life on that crap.

On the other hand, the movie was decent. Considering the utter crap it's based on.

Feel free to try to rebuke this, or support it.
If you can change my mind I will bake you cookies. :]

[Rabid]

Is this really a debate? I'll share my two cents, anyway. I read Twilight to see what all the hullaballoo was about and why it was knocking some fantastic novels down on the bestseller list- I typically don't waste my time on mainstream books, but after my curiosity was sated, I wasn't impressed.

It's not that the books are bad, per se, but the writing and the literary devices are atrocious. Like you said, the characters lack dimension and are idealized to the point of annoyance. This could just be a matter of taste, but I read three books a week looking for lush description, poignant emotional imagery, and characters that overcome their innate flaws, none of which I found in the Twilight series. The plot is somewhat decent, but I think the series could have been so much more if put in the hands of a far more skilled writer, because the author uses a redundant host of about thirty adjectives and writes for a fifth-grade audience. As a passionate conoisseur of literature, I just think that they're incredibly sub-par and badly written; not badly plotted, but poorly executed. If you're looking for quality vampire literature, go read Anne Rice; don't settle for Twilight.

[OMGnoWAY0752]

If you're looking for quality vampire literature, go read Anne Rice; don't settle for Twilight.

Here, here!

[Elyasis_SC]

I'm not impressed with any of Anne Rice's novels either. It seems a little too much talking and not enough action for my tastes.
Twilight was amusing but honestly, the Harry Potter series was better written. Apparently children are smarter than teen girls?

[OMGnoWAY0752]

J.K. Rowling's just sooo much smarter than Stephanie Myers.

[Elyasis_SC]

Yeah Twilight really lacked any depth to the characters. It was disappointing.

Even J.K.'s side characters like Hagrid have more depth.

[Rabid]

Harry Potter is superior to Twilight, indeed, although my opinion of that series is that it's far, far too heavy. I like my books emotionally and descriptively heavy- not filled with mindless drivel for dialogue. I think that a solid four-hundred pages of unnecessary dialogue and anecdotes could be trimmed from each Harry Potter novel to create a far more compact, interesting story. No book can ever be too long, but it can have grossly excessive content. This is a very unusual thing for me say, seeing as, in literature, I thrive on reading and writing long-winded, wordy exposition of both emotional and sensual imagery- perhaps this is why I enjoy Anne Rice's books above the other novels mentioned, although I tend to avoid series. In my opinion, a good story ends with one book, but I digress. This is why I read largely unknown contemporary works of fiction; I find that authors untainted by the reader's expectations are the most enthralling storytellers of all.

[BR_FL]

Not to toot my own horn, but I can make a Sim with a unique personality in three minutes. Twilight series had three books and there was basically no character developement, or even any character at all.
I do agree with you Rabid that Anne Rice novels are what a person should read if someone wants to read a vampire book. The vampires in Twilight aren't even real Vampires. More like zombies with a blood fetish. That sparkle. Twilight doesn't even come close to the literary genius of Interview With Vampire and it's series.

And Bella. Oh Bella. She's homely, yet a bunch of guys...love...her? Not to mention she set the feminist movement back by at leeast half a century. Apparently when a woman's boyfriend or husband leaves for X amount of months, the girl should weep, cry, and put herself in danger so that her significant other will save her. Yea, I see that logic.

Yes it is a Romance book, and yes it is for the teen audience. But honestly, it is written bad. How many synonyms are there for "sparkle"? Stephanie Myer showed me there are many.

[lilliandulciaa]

Not all books are made to be studied in classes. I've read many books that are much worse than Twilight that no one has their panties in a knot about, the only difference is they aren't as well known and well liked as Twilight. Twilight isn't perfect, it isn't meant to have tons of hidden meanings, it is simply a story, an easy read, for fun. I don't know why people compare Twilight to Harry Potter, they are nothing alike except in their length. I loved Harry Potter, and I loved 2 of the 4 Twilight books, and I loved Tithe, and I loved Song of Solomon, and I loved many other completely unrelated books, but I don't go comparing each and every one of them to each other. It makes no sense.
And hey, my boyfriend hasn't read a novel in years (doubt he's read any as long as Twilight). He hates reading, and he reads slow. I somehow magically convinced him to read Twilight though, and he really liked the same 2 that I liked. My philosophy on books is if it gets someone to read, it really can't be all that bad :P

[OMGnoWAY0752]

Twilight was written for the mindless masses. I would rather read a book that makes me think, or at least doesn't tick me off with it's stupidity.

Twilight and Harry Potter are both classified as fantasy series. That's why they are compared. The die-hard Harry Potter fans are downright offended that Twilight has even been published.

[lilliandulciaa]

That's funny, I know tons of HP fans who realize that you can like one book series and still like another (or tolerate its existence) and not have to compare the two :P

[OMGnoWAY0752]

This is getting rather off topic. So let's focus on Twilight now.

[PuX- 80's]

Twilight, in my opinion, is a good book.
Not great, and not stab-to-death horrible.

1. Edward and Bella's ABUSIVE (yes, abusive) relationship
Edward's kind of an obsessive psychopath. He watches her sleep for christ's sakes! He uses force, intimidation and coercion to control Bella's actions. He manipulates her into marrying him, which is something she REALLY doesn't want to do. He hides important information from her, and he breaks her heart to "protect her" when truly, better protection would've been to stay with her.
I think you, OMG, haven't thought too much on your 'answer'/thought.
If your boyfirend/girlfriend can never sleep, would you sugest that they go watch paint dry or count sand at the bottom of the ocean? Humans do that already so it can't be "OMG Edward iz cre3piez!"

I haven't read the books so I wouldn't know how well Meyer describes her characters.

I liked the movie, well over than I tolerated Watchmen and Harry Potter.
Harry Potter made me want to own a gun and watch my brains fall out. The movies just drag on for-ever.
Watchmen, the moive had -no- plot. This guy kills another man, angry, angry, sex, sex, more sex, 'OMG he did itz', done.

Twilight is ment to appeal to the teenage readers, which are the 'Emo-rocker' people.

[KyleTheArtist]

PuX- 80's:Your reply made my day! :D

[Doddibot]

Where are his flaws? He has none! One might say "Oh, he's a vampire! You know, a killer and stuff!" That doesn't count as a flaw. That's as silly as saying in a book about aliens that being an alien is a flaw!
That would be a flaw, if the vampires were properly portrayed. A vegetarian pacifist vampire? Come on, that's an oxymoron if I ever heard of one!

Can I recommend a decent vampire novel? Fledgling by Octavia Butler. Now that's a decent portrayal of young people and vampires (although Fledgling features far more sex than the amount Twilight deliberately avoids).

[Carlisle]

Is this really a debate? I'll share my two cents, anyway. I read Twilight to see what all the hullaballoo was about and why it was knocking some fantastic novels down on the bestseller list- I typically don't waste my time on mainstream books, but after my curiosity was sated, I wasn't impressed.

It's not that the books are bad, per se, but the writing and the literary devices are atrocious. Like you said, the characters lack dimension and are idealized to the point of annoyance. This could just be a matter of taste, but I read three books a week looking for lush description, poignant emotional imagery, and characters that overcome their innate flaws, none of which I found in the Twilight series. The plot is somewhat decent, but I think the series could have been so much more if put in the hands of a far more skilled writer, because the author uses a redundant host of about thirty adjectives and writes for a fifth-grade audience. As a passionate conoisseur of literature, I just think that they're incredibly sub-par and badly written; not badly plotted, but poorly executed. If you're looking for quality vampire literature, go read Anne Rice; don't settle for Twilight.

You're talking as though you can write a novel that's better than Twilight.

[SSChan]

You're talking as though you can write a novel that's better than Twilight.

I'm pretty sure ANYONE can write a better novel than Twilight.

Twilight, as I've gathered, if horrendously god-awful - a glorified fanfiction. And the content seems to be completely inappropriate for it's target audience Especially the fourth book. Come on, horribly painful sex that continues after Bella has fallen unconcious... a grown man falling in love with a baby? Mother's shouldn't allow their girls to read this tripe.

[OMGnoWAY0752]

PuX, I'm rather offended that you view me as one of those teenagers who speaks like "OMG Edward iz cre3piez!" Because I'm not. I'll have you know, my nickname is pure sarcasm; an inside joke between my bff and I. But I digress.

As you said, you haven't read the book, only seen the movie. What the movie fails to explain is that Edward snuck into Bella's house every night for months on end to watch her sleep.

Now, I've fallen asleep at my bfs house, and when I woke up, he told me I look cute when I sleep, but he doesn't exactly sneak into my house every night like that creeper Edward.

I started this thread to talk about Twilight. Not Harry Potter, not Anne Rice, Twilight. I know I haven't exactly been helpful on the whole staying on topic thing, but c'mon, give an ADD kid a break.

I kind of expected this to get heated, but what I really want is to hear true lovers of the Twilight series defenses of the book and their opinions, and the opinions of people who dislike the Twilight series. And I HAVE thought about this. In depth. Discussed it with others. In depth.

I am talking about the book Twilight. Not the movie. I said the movie was decent. And so you know, I have read all the books in the series. But I digress, again.

So can we keep it to Twilight? The book series?

[jhd1189]

Hmm... I'm not sure if this strikes me as being the right sort of topic for the debate room, so I'm going to go ahead and move it to the media center. And if I end up being completely wrong and this does turn into a debate, we can always move it back. ;)

[BR_FL]

Heh heh, I was thinking this was getting a bit heated too.

[Amish Nick_SC]

Not the best debate I've seen, but concidering my last one was a bit of a flop, wth.

Here I go...

Twilight. There are three major problems with the Twilight series. I'll put them in nice little bulleted paragraphs for you. :)

1. Edward and Bella's ABUSIVE (yes, abusive) relationship

2. The lack of depth in the characters


3. The pace is way too fast


1. Edward is a Vampire. Vampire's are not known for their "Niceness" or mental stability. Being dead changes people.

2. Its a teen love story. Movie made from a book put into 1.2 hours. Not a lot of time considering. I'm sure there was a lot missing from the book. Example, look at the LOTR, Return of the king. Didn't end as the book did. Time affects, so does staying close to important story lines in the book.

3. Read my #2.

[OMGnoWAY0752]

Again: People. This discussion is about the book series. NOT the movie.

[Theory of Everything_SC]

I read half way through the book and got bored. The dialogue was alright. I mean, it was more entertaining than the actions which seem just be repetitive. The dialogue is wa-ay more entertaining when you're viewing it as a comedy, which was how I saw it, because well... My sister almost drowned me when I was a baby and ever since I've had a strange sense of humor.

With Edward being perfect. I didn't think so. He's insecure and uncomfortable with himself. Plus, he's been a virgin for over a hundred years. I say after the age of 30, the excuse of, "I'm waiting until I'm married" is out the window and on top of that, it's obvious he's not asexual. Even the 40-year-old Virgin got laid and Edward is 60 years past that. In the end, I just think he has a small noodle. Not that is a bad thing, but it can definitely take a guys confidence in a relationship down a peg.

And gah! That boy is smart in the class room, but he doesn't have common sense. How can he NOT notice half of the charming stuff he does?

Bella is just a normal teen growing into herself. She hit the nail when she said that her reputation in Arizona was probably what made her such a loner. She was a gawky teen at the age of 13 and while growing up, she made no effort of changing that. Therefore, her peers view of her didn't change.

[Doddibot]

Come on, horribly painful sex that continues after Bella has fallen unconcious...
Pretty clear, with the parallels between teenage sexual lust and vampiric bloodlust, that Meyer wrote the book with the intention of promoting abstinence in young teens. It's totally obvious that any sex in the book is going to be bad too, to discourage the audience from pursuing it.

[Theory of Everything_SC]

She is, after all, a Mormon. She just may find such religious related subjects seriously.

[Frenchie]

Twilight, in my opinion, is a good book.

...

I haven't read the booksI do believe only the biting pear of Salamanca (http://www.shodor.org/~isinclair/lolwut.jpg) can properly express my feelings about this post.

[honeynutcows_SC]

Twilight for me is a nice bit of teenage slush. It’s fine if you want a soppy, rather ridiculous (sp?) teen fiction, but deserves nothing of the hype it gets, I was a fan of twilight, not an omgeee Edward, glitter, sparkle, wow!!!one1!! Fan girl but I liked the books: then however the film brought the ridiculous teen cult with their

"Oh gosh I has gots likes marry Edward now"

And it made me re-read the nonsense a bit more cynically, making me realise how shallow the book was(i still stand by however that it's a good bit of slush). Seriously I don’t know what sort of mind control Meyer has on the tweens of the world but it’s made us all look like a group of mindless sheep.

[Alissa888]

1. Yes, he's definitely abusive. He's possessive, he subtly belittles her, and come on, he has got major issues. And the whole sex thing is the epitome of the abuse - the fact that she seems to be able to talk him into doing it again and he's all game despite the damage he causes to her is another part of the whole repetitive abuse thing. Okay, he's a guy, he likes sex, so what? If it's that hurtful, he should have the good sense to hold off, regardless of how much of a masochist she is. And the breaking and entering to watch someone sleep, it's nice when people go "You looked so cute, I didn't want to wake you", but the what he does is downright stalkerish. Considering that her daddy's a policeman, it's not advisable either.

2. Oh, yes! Bella... well, from the get go, she's a clear idiot; it's not only spatial awareness that she lacks. I mean, for one, you find out someone's a vampire, you get careful around them, instead, it's a case of "I'm gonna confront him!" and yeah... given Victoria and James, that might not go so well all the time. Edward's just chronically depressed. He's pretty much a monk. When it boils down to it, it's a love story between an idiot and a monk.... not much room for depth in that. Though, it is interesting that Meyer wrote it such that the guy waited a century to get laid, rather than the whole "men are allowed to play the field, women should remain chaste". Then again, the franchise might not have worked out so well if it was a 100 year old sex-starved vampiress seducing a 16 year old boy.

3. I think that might have a little to do with Meyer's own conceptions of love and relationships. She seems to think that someone restraining themselves from eating you is a sign of attraction... okay, I kid. But to be honest, I'd class the relationship between Bella and Edward as intense infatuation than anything else. Maybe she is his soulmate, but that doesn't mean that they fall head over heels in love in a few moments, get married, have a child and don't stop to think whether this is a little too fast. But it fits for fictional writing... after all, this is to encourage girls to wait for the fairytale and once it hits home, everything works out magically at the speed of an aeroplane in flight.

[Rabid]

You're talking as though you can write a novel that's better than Twilight.

At the risk of sounding incredibly conceited, I'm writing a novel right now that I believe to be better.

The thing I've noticed about Twilight is that Meyer crosses a boundary that no fiction author should dare foot- she is absolutely and obviously in love with Edward. What's worse is that it shows; it's not simply Bella fantasizing about her vampire, but the entire series is essentially a long-winded digression from Meyer about her perfect man and her fantasy romance. As someone who doesn't write much romance (and when I do, it's timeless love, not teenage fancy), I suppose I have no basis to judge, but I do think that Meyer's infatuation with her character knocks down the value of her writing a few more notches.

[Roxy882_SC]

I've read all four books and saw the movie.

I really thought the series was pretty good. Not wonderful, not OH EM GEE I LOVED IT..just pretty good. I thought they described the characters fairly well..at least Bella anyway.If you wanted to see Edward's character more clearly go read Midnight Sun! And finally the pace: I don't see why you think the pace is too fast.. I found that it was just right. The time I spent reading these was a time well spent and not a waste of time as some people like to put it ( not any of you but some friends I have :P)

Anyways I really loved this series and I still read them again every once in a while..
I think this was well written and if you don't like it, I don't see why you have to go to extremes to express how much you hate these books.. :P

[tyana]

Ok so I have been reading this topic on my blackberry through out the day, and I agree with alot of you guys on alot of things. I personally find twilight the creation of the devil... It's horrible the way she writ it and I can stand the effects it has on people! Especially the girls from my school... I dont know how bad it is in other states but here in rural MN girls have gone crazy, the book brainwashes them and assumes their life.. There has not been a single day I have seen or even heard with out twilight from shirts to the horrible screamming conversations about edward!
When I read the first book I was already set against the book series because I have girls compare real men to Edward Cullen and be "oh your not Edward Cullen your not good enough!" and I have known people who's relationship has almost ended because of this fact. A lot of people get pulled in to the book and seriously change. Half of my friends don't really seam to realize this is fiction. I read 3/4 of the first book all skeptical and well to be truthful I sorta liked it. It has a great plot but the rest of the book is horrid! Bad writing style! And there is nothing romantic about Edward and Bella! He's a freaking stalker! Bella is a freaking idiot as most people have already mentioned and from what I heard from friends and ect who are consumed by this series, to me it seems to get out of hand with baby and Jacob WTF!!
But yeah I know that this topic was suppose to be more about the book but I find the effects of the book much worse then the book it's self! Their is some weird psychological matters at play when studying the average teen girl after she has read the book...

[Doc Doofus]

Ah, she's a Mormon. That may explain a lot.

My take:

First, the movie is pretty good. The director of that movie is in a different league than Stephenie Meyer. Stephenie Meyer's book reads like a bunch of preadolescent twitters. All the endless, "Oh my God, did you see who he/she sat with at lunch!" garbage. And even that could have been entertaining if it was done with a little wit, but not in the book.

The theme of the series, at least as presented much more interestingly in the film, was what Doddibot said: parallel between vampire bloodlust and teenage hormones. The very creepy way that Edward looks at her in the film as if he really does feel tempted to kill her doesn't come across in the book series, where he is just a goody-two-shoes. He is ultimately reduced to a teen romance fantasy of a boy that is both threatening (bloodlust) and non-threatening (self-control).

So, the film was good but not fantastic. The first book was really awful, and the remaining books actually got better as the story went along. After the first book, there was less of the boring teen girl mall shopping jabber.

[PuX- 80's]

I do believe only the biting pear of Salamanca (http://www.shodor.org/~isinclair/lolwut.jpg) can properly express my feelings about this post.
The theory of Questioning and the theory of Thinking obviously has not phased you.
I like the book, the thought behind the book, the movie the book produces, must I keep listing?

I have not read the pages 400+ page book, but I have grazed the text.

Now, possibly was that Pear facing you?

PuX, I'm rather offended that you view me as one of those teenagers who speaks like "OMG Edward iz cre3piez!" Because I'm not. I'll have you know, my nickname is pure sarcasm; an inside joke between my bff and I. But I digress.
Take context clues. Humans, that refers to a general group -not- one person.

[tazza2009_SC]

Since no one else is interested in defending Twilight, I guess I'll have a go...(no throwing things at me, please!)

I actually studied this book in a college American Civilization course last semester and a fair number of my fellow students had the same reaction I see in this thread. I even agree with some of the points. However, I love the series. I have reread it several times, and own the movie. Before the grumbling starts about my taste in books though, hear me out.

The writing isn't spectacular (and by that I mean Meyer uses 10 sentences where one will do, and was clearly using the thesaurus liberally). There is something intangible that draws the reader in...how else would the book be such a pop culture phenomenom? I am a voracious reader and have found that the books that gain the most popularity are not always the best written. My professor refers to these as "low literature." Despite Meyer's wordiness and shallow characterizations, there is something that appeals to millions of readers--emotion.

Whatever you may think of the plot or the characters, the emotion of the series comes through in each installation. No, she's no JK Rowling. These books are not plot driven. They are driven by feeling. I get caught up in the drama of it all, so much so that I forget how unrealistic and unfeminist it is of Bella to feel this way. It has the risk of Romeo and Juliet, the doomed romance of Catherine and Heathcliff. I know many girls (myself included) who occasionally long for the kind of romance that overcomes all obstacles and knocks you head over heels. Is it unrealistic? Sure. I don't think that anyone would actually like Edward and Bella's relationship were they given the opportunity to try it.

To specifically address the points raised earlier: I don't believe their relationship is abusive. Edward needs Bella as much as she professes to need him. He tells her she is his life. There is no dominant figure insofar as their romance (I suppose being able to snap her in two gives him the upper hand physically). There is little depth to the characters, but when reading for escapist fantasy and romance, I don't like my heroes flawed. I have enough flawed men in my life. I want the nondescript girl to turn out to have superpowers (her exceptional willpower) and have the hottest guy in school fall for her. It is a classic fantasy and yet no one here is attacking historical romances or Meg Cabot for using the same formula (although they might now). The truth is, fantasy is a genre popular for its disconnect from our reality.

Ultimately, I would never defend Twilight as being extraordinarily well written. It's not. It does have that indefinable something though, and in this poster's humble opinion, that makes it worth reading.

If you made it to my final thoughts go get a cookie, you definitely deserve it after listening to me ramble on...

[TRIriana]

You mentioned that you don't like your heroes flawed, but the previous paragraph mentions Romeo and Juliet and Catherine and Heathcliff. Do you actually like the play, and book Wuthering Heights or were they just brought up to show a point? I'm curious because while they do have many obstacles in each relationship there, they're also intrinsically doomed and both ultimately fail. This automatically makes it differ from Edward and Bella because they don't ultimately fail and nor is it flawed in the same sense as the two above couples mentioned. For a start, Bella survives and Edward's being undead doesn't appear to affect it.

Another point is that Heathcliff and Romeo are both incredibly flawed characters, and you mentioned that you don't like your heroes flawed. As an example Romeo has a temper, as seen in fight with Tybalt, is rash and impetuous and falls in and out of love extraordinarily quickly with the switching from Roselind and Juliet as the beginning of the play.

But I digress, we are talking about Twilight - I just wanted a few points clarified in your post, if that's alright. :)

I haven't read the Twilight books yet, and as such I won't comment on those books quite yet. I wanted to be able to critique the chapters based on my own knowledge and not just on heresay and other people's opinions so I have acquired the books themselves and will be providing my thoughts in due course.

[xoxSugah]

Usually when people seem to either love or hate something it means that at least there's something interesting there. Twilight was just so...bland to me though.

[TRIriana]

Okay, I have read the first three chapters of the first book so far and will be commenting on what I thought of those chapters only. Bear in mind that, because I haven't read any further than that just yet I'm not aware of any further character development in subsequent chapters. As I stated in my last post, I have previously only heard opinions from other people on what happens later on in the book(s), but until I reach that point myself future character development, if any, will not be commented on.


Chapter One

The very, very first paragraph does not draw me in in the slightest. When I read a book I want to think: "Wow! I really have to carry on reading this...this character is damned interesting!" Instead I had the bland feeling of: "Oh. Driving." Obviously this isn't a good start. I would have been nice to have a brief description, however fleeting. Something like. "Hello, my name is Bella. Right now I'm riding shotgun in my mother's car...and somehow I can't help thinking blah, blah, blah."

I get the feeling after reading the first few pages, SM (oh dear, that's an unfortunate name abbreviation for a Mormom) has not found Bella's "voice" yet. She alternates between sounding like a typical "book and movie" teenager to speaking like a ninteenth century man. While this can be excused by the fact that it's the first book, and more than that - it's the first few pages - incorrect or at odds "voicing" could have been corrected in a second or third draft, and it hasn't. A minor quibble that I have, and it is incredibly minor, is that SM has Bella seeing her mother with wide, childlike eyes and that's vaguely discomforting coming from an eighteen-year-old, who acts like Bella does.

In the same way there are moments where internal thought Bella switches between "dad" and "Charlie" without any emotional thought of, I always thought of him as Charlie, simply because we never really developed the "father-daughter bond. But spending more time with him here, I can't help feeling a dad vibe start to grow..." dad/Charlie seem to be interchangeable, regardless of current thought.

Other contradictory moments include Bella stating that she doesn't really know anything about cars, and yet she asks very pointed questions about cars of Charlie when he gives her the truck. Indeed, later on she is able to provide not only makes, but models of cars - even when only sparing them a quick glance, as in the future scene with the Toyota. This lends crendence to the possibility of SM being unsure of how to voice a character in first person, give them a mild disadvantage in a subject - and then not use writer knowledge later on, and maintaining the disadvantage.

Character-wise, in the first long conversation - between Charlie and Bella, she comes across as a very ungrateful child. This man who is as awkward around her as she is around him, has gifted her with a truck and she responds by interrogating him. A page later she see's the truck and loves it - yet throughout the next several pages, continues to show her disdain. By page 6 we still haven't even got an idea of what Bella looks like - I know more about her room, than about the voice of the book. Again this stops any possibility of aiding me in identifying with Bella. The discription, albeit a short one, comes eventually - but it begin with saying how she should be tan, sporty and blonde. Do all people from Phoenix look like this? Even then, she isn't from Phoenix - it's stated earlier than she was born in Forks and moved with her mother at five months old. This, to me, makes her not only from Forks but an old citizen moving back and not the absolute outsider she tries to make out. Particularly since it's already stated that she had visited Forks for the last several years, for a month at a time. If the town is as small as she makes out, surely she isn't that much of a novelty.

We find out in a few sentences what she isn't which, in my opinion instead of coming across as anticapatory, is annoying. I don't care enough about Bella at this point to want to know what she isn't - I want to know who she is so that I can start caring. We are provided with these points: she is ivory skinned, slender and clear skinned - why is she complaining?

Of course then Bella adds that her skin is transluscent looking. Bella love, if your skin is transluscent you need to get to a hospital, because something is medically wrong with you. To clarify this point my fiance's sister developed pneumonia and her skin became transluscent looking...this is because she was dying at the time (just to add, she's now fit and well). I don't think the description of transluscent means what SM thinks it means. She adds also that her skin could be pretty but it all depended on colour, and that there is no colour there. So...what? She wants to be more Ethnic looking? There's no explanation and it makes her sound silly.

There is also the constant comments of (paraphrasing), "hope that I'd have fun at school was wasted," and "I have exiled myself to Forks". While I think SM may be trying to create a sense of: Ooooh! I really want to know why! The actual explanation later comes far too later - by then she's already succeeded in making Bella seem like a whiny brat who is creating problems for herself by being ridiculously negative. (Another example is her communication with Charlie. It's very awkward and lacklustre and she continually seems to think that this is horrible - she put herself in that situation, knowing what to expect. I don't feel any sympathy whatsoever).

There is one sentence that sticks out:

It was impossible, being in this house, not to realize that Charlie had never gotten over
my mom. It made me uncomfortable.

There has been no explanation thus far, for the break-up and no explanation as to why she feels so uncomfortable with Charlie continuing to love his previous wife. I'd like to know why she feels uncomfortable, particularly since so far Charlie hasn't gone into in-depth conversation about the mother and his feelings.

Skipping forward a little to how she acts with people: Bella has previously said, in brief, that she does not relate well to people of her own age. Or anyone for that matter! When people start talking to her (Jessica, Eric, Mike), she appears to view them with an attitude of, "why are you talking to me?!" And when Mike is being very friendly toward this awkward, unsure new girl, on the second day her internal thoughts start to view him a dog. Not even a faithful dog - more one she wants to get rid of. She even goes so far as to think that she must let him down gently. It seems incredibly egotistical of Bella - so far he's behaved like a friendly, ever so vaguely flirtatious teenage boy. It appears that she is of the opinion that friendly = wants to date me. Bella seems to view herself as an outsider but people at the Forks high school have been nothing but friendly, congenial and helpful toward her - her subsequent attitude in her thoughts, frankly, makes her sound like a bitch. She isn't different - she's another teenager whose apparently obsessed with herself. Harsh perhaps, but in my opinion, this is how Bella seems. There are also continued comments of trips being arranged and Bella's internal thought of: "How can I get out of this?" Again this is incredibly ungrateful, when these people are allowing this new girl to join their "group". Something which is difficult for most teenagers.

It sounds like the problems Bella has are of her own creation, and made up in her own head. Bella simultaneously seems to believe she's the average looking kid, with the makings of someone in the "out crowd" while being a "spessul wittle flower". Several people are trying to make friends with her, therein making her part of a "circle of friends".

Also, as an aside - what the heck is it with her and the continued mention of oh no! Not the rain! Yes, I understand that she came from a sunny city previously, but my goodness the girl is obsessed, to an incredibly stupid extent. And then when it stops raining in order to snow - she finds reason to also dislike that. It's her first sight of snow and she recoils like a witch with water. Does she melt when it rains and snows? It's incredibly annoying reading this, particularly since I have met several people who have never seen snow before and come from a hot climate and tend to be overjoyed when witnessing snow in person, for the first time.

Okay... *deep breath*... onto the actual Meeting of the Vampires! Dun, dun duuuuuun!

Some of the description, from where Bella is sitting in relation to the Group, should not be there yet. She is sitting on the opposite side of the cafeteria, and they're sitting down. How can she see with much accuracy the type of "Sports Illustrated" figure that one of them has? I general when someone is sitting down, with a table in front of them, their curves are obscured. Does Bella, in addition to the miraculous genuis SM claims she has, also come with X-Ray vision? If it does then I want that! Though the melting in the snow may pose a problem. It sounds again, like writer knowledge, intruding in logic and accurate characterisation. One comment that made me frown was this:

They all had very dark eyes despite the range in hair tones.

Genetics doesn't work how SM thinks it does. My fiance for example, has very dark hair, his eyes however a pale greeny/grey/browny colour. His sister has the same eyes but blonde hair. Specific eye colours don't neatly match up with specific hair colours. A similar comment is made when Bella is looking in the bathroom mirror -

I was ivory-skinned, without even the excuse of blue eyes or red hair

Back to the description of the vampires - again, with the distance away that Bella is from their table - how is she able to detect something as minute as shadows under eyes? She should be a test subject for Science, because that's one heck of a vision she has.

Onto SM's attempt at describing walking. Somehow she manages to do this with difficulty. The same girl has at the same time a quick, graceful lope that belonged on a runway, has a dancers step, and then glides through the door.

Now, when I think of a lope I envision for example, Bigfoots walk on TS2. A model on a runway does not lope, therein a lope does not belong on a runway...unless they are showing the fashions of the moderm caveman. Along the same vein a dancer and a dancers step is not like a model walk - it would be more fluid. And at the same time the girl can also glide. No wonder people stare at her - she's a freak of nature! So, in conclusion, while there is description, it makes little sense. Instead of focusing on all these different types of walk, this could have been when Bella studied the girls figure.


Okay! I'm going to stop there for now, because this is becoming far, far longer than I intended. I'll add more a little later on.

[lesse]

First and foremost, I would like to comment on the thread title. I am somewhere in the middle, so I swing neither to horrible nor perfection. I understand the ploy, but I just want to say that I didn't think it was perfect, but I also didn't think it was terrible.

Okay, I hope you guys are seriously ready for a long post. If you don't read it, you haven't missed a thing. If you do read it; I'm sorry for my drabble.

I'm going to get the bad stuff out of the way so I can go on to the good stuff. BTW, I'm not here to change your opinion, because that is what is so fantastic about fiction, everyone here has an opinion on each and every book they have ever read. (Love it, hate it, blah blah blah) Oh noes, this goes against the debate theme though!! Oh well, I'm just here to fuel the fodder.

THE BAD!!:
Twilight (and the books thereafter) are horribly written. The dialogue is choppy, the word usage is gratuitous, and you are correct in that at first glance, the characters have no depth. I will explain that in just a moment.

Stephenie Meyer is a housewife: a Mormon housewife. That may seem like an insignificant detail, but alas, it is not. Those two facts greatly impose her ideals on this book. There was even a point in the first book where Edward alluded that he believed in a god. That was put in there purely for Stephenie Meyer's conscious; she felt that as a proper Mormon girl, she shouldn't be writing fiction about vampires and the underlying sexual tension.

I will gripe that she has no idea how a teenage girl talks anymore. Not saying I'm the be-all-end-all on that subject, but no one I know uses "infinitesimally" to describe someone turning their head a fraction. Ugh. Anyhow...

The GOOD:

Okay. You're more than welcome to throw stones at me for liking this book, owning the movie, and yes, rhapsodizing over Rob P. (I don't care if he stinks, if he speaks in his British accent to me, I'm all his). I did love the book, clearly not for the sparkling (pun!!) wit of the characters, but rather another love story told.

I will have to give all of you some background on me as to why I am a hopeless romantic, and hopefully that will clear up why so many other females (of all ages) like this book. I never had a boyfriend (or significant other) until I was 17. I had never been kissed until I was 17. I didn't have ideals about what a boy should be like, but when one has felt like a miserable failure in the romance department for 5 years, one tends to yearn for a romance. It's true, I lost myself in those stupid romances about how the down-trodden girl gets a prince/hawt guy/wonderful guy/etc. I'm not saying that every other girl has gone through exactly the same thing, but a lot of the feelings were there. This is why I loved Twilight, because of a retelling of the classic love story device. Homely girl gets the guy, and hell, they are "perfect" in every way.

Now, as to the characters having no depth: That is Stephenie Meyer's fault for not being able to get outside her bad writing. She does actually try to give them depth. We, the readers, are supposed to wade through her muck and sort out why they are flawed. One of Edward's flaws is that he doesn't have any idea how to compromise. In the end, he'll do whatever Bella tells him to do. As for her forcing him to continue having sex with her... hahaha.

Yeah, okay. I think, once again, her being Mormon plays into this. If it were my book (and luckily it's not) they would have been rabbits from the plane, to the island, back to that dumpy town, Forks. In that, Stephenie is trying to show that Edward is a failure at doing anything opposing Bella after his "mistake" in New Moon.

Forgive me for being scattered here, but also, the whole stalkerish behavior of Edward isn't easily explained to someone who already believes him to be a stalker. The reason that works is because Stephenie, as you've said before, loves her own characters (Believe it or not, most authors love their own characters). Stephenie, in her mind, believes this not to be a stalker worthy thing rather than some sweet, romantic gesture that shows the depth of his passion for his lady love. Edward is not perfect, but yes he has flaws. Tiny though they are, they are there.

Bella
Bella is static. She "put back the feminist movement" for everyone. I know, I get it. As a feminist myself, I wasn't happy with how Bella handled this, but one cannot control his or her feelings. I don't think Stephenie really thought so much about how this would impact her tween audience, so much as she thought about how she would react if this happened to her.

You know what guys/gals? This is a perfectly normal (not healthy) reaction. A rejection can sting, and people deal with it in so many ways. I'm not saying her depression should have spanned months, and her parents (in the book) should have done something about her being lackluster for months, but I know so many people who take things horribly. Not everyone can be the staunch feminist, stand up, wipe her hands and scream to the heavens, "I don't need a insert noun here!" I acted like this when my dog died. It sucks, I stayed in bed, and I decided not to go to school. Stupid reaction, but that was my reaction.

On to the last thing and I'll wrap up my post:

Everything moved too fast:

Oh man. Yes, it did, didn't it? I tell that to people who are engaged now (at 21) who are having children (at 21) who have only been with their boyfriend for 2 years. Moving fast isn't just in this book, it's an epidemic that sweeps through the nation. Look at celebrities dating for 6 weeks, jumping into marriage, and then falling out of marriage. I'm not saying I condone this behavior, but moving fast happens whenever there is a lot of passion involved. I'm a snail when it comes to these things; I believe time will have all the answers, so moving fast would be extremely out of the ordinary with me. However, for some people, it works. In here, the pace is fast for you, but not fast for other readers. For readers who see only the romance in the story, and get that tingly feeling in their belly, this pace is too slow. They want, more than anything, for Edward and Bella to be together. Stephenie Meyer wants more than anything for Edward and Bella to be together. This pace probably isn't fast for her at all, she's in her late 20's early 30's and has three children. They are older children attending school. So, to her, this pace is probably right on track with how she feels.

In conclusion to my drabble, I don't think the Twilight series is amazing or "perfect", but nor do I think it to be an abomination to all mankind. People who usually read weighty tomes with flowery detail, wonderful imagery, and that to-die-for prose will not enjoy Twilight. No. But if you happen to read novels for easy reads, summer reads, or what have you, then you'll probably enjoy Twilight if you don't plan to get anything other than a "d'oh, of course that would happen!" out of it. I will ready absolutely anything, which is why I wouldn't be a good book critic, because I like to give all writers the benefit of a doubt.

That is my (long) two cents. I hope it gave you who oppose Twilight something to think about.

Also, as a die hard HP fan, I really do not appreciate Twilight and Harry Potter being compared. (I do it, too, so I'm not harping about that!) I will defend HP to the death, because I grew up with that series and it was a form of escapism. Which, so is Twilight. A form of escapism: but isn't any book?

So, once again, I'm sorry to those of you who read this.

Cheers!
Lesse

[Rabid]

Like TRIriana said about Heathcliff and Romeo, the essence of a literary hero is one who overcomes his flaws to save another character or become a better person. While Edward may exhibit the occasional heroic quality, he is not a hero- he has yet to overcome his insecurity as to his abilities and is unfailingly cautious, sometimes at his or Bella's own expense. He does not deserve a place alongside epic heroes such as Odysseus or Jason because he performs no good deeds, and he is not a tragic hero like Jay Gatsby or Achilles because he does not bring about his own death, nor does he die. There is nothing heroic or redeeming about Edward other than his unconditional devotion, which seems to, more often than not, be something of a detrimental, double-edged sword.

Bella is not a damsel in distress, either, but rather an enabler. If she so pleased, she is fully capable of extricating herself from this abusive relationship, yet she does nothing. I don't see how anyone can pity her character when Edward is upsetting her, seeing as she got herself into this situation and makes no effort to get herself out. What really rubs me the wrong way about the series is how direct it is; I suppose SM is simply pandering to her audience, but there is no subtlety or mystery whatsoever. The wacky events of book four notwithstanding, I predicted everything that came down the pike. Every poorly-described emotion of the characters is laid bare, and it could be just a matter of taste, but I don't like that. I read voraciously, and I both read and write books in which the author uses wordy exposition to set the scene, but allows the characters' actions to speak volumes of their emotions. Meyer doesn't do this- she's too direct, too simple, as are her characters.

[Eat_ToAst]

I've read all of the twilight books, I had no books to read, so I thought I'd give them a go.
I read very odd books for my age. I've read your classic Harry Potter, but I also read books like Memoirs of A geisha, The Memoirs of Cleopatra, Lovely Bones, etc. I don't read as many teenage love slushes as I used to. My books aren't really big adult books, but there not things any of my friends have even attempted reading.
When I read twilight, at the time, I felt there was nothing wrong with the book. I figured it would be good, it was getting a lot of hype. All my friends were gossiping about this new amazing book, Twilight. I wanted to know what all the fuss was about, so I went ahead and read it.
I didn't find anything spectacular about Twilight. I thought it was pretty much a book written for tweens/teens, which I'm sure it is. I didn't (Like a lot of you), feel the characters were very well developed, yes, things moved to fast, and some of my favorite characters where severely forgotten about at points in the story. Jacob, my favorite character, was given barely any dialog near the end of Breaking Dawn. When I finished all books, I didn't think anything of it. Just another book finished. But when I went to look back on it, I did realize that I can't ..relate, to some of the characters such as I can with other books I read, because their not thought into well enough.

So overall, I see nothing wrong with this book, MAJORLY, but there were small things that put it off being a very good book.

[Doddibot]

Edward acting like a stalker is actually one of the better traits, I think. After all, he is a vampire. Being creepy is what they should do best!

[Dreamydre]

What's the point in caring if it sucked? I mean their has been other books by many other authors that are horrific, but people are constantly talking about the Twilight Saga. In my opinion I enjoyed the books, I read the first three before the movie came out and before it became so popular. The movie is what I didn't like and then all of the Obsessed Twilight girls came along and just took the fun out of the book entirely. I'm really just tired of hearing about it altogether. From major fans of the book and the one's who are constantly talking crap about it.

[OMGnoWAY0752]

true true doddibot. he is a vampire. he should be creepy.

[QueenScorpio_SC]

I only read book1 because it was supposed to be "similar to Harry Potter" which is something that still cracks me up. Despite all the magical creatures in HP not a single one of them was a vampire and the only magical creature in Twilight is a *perfect-does-not-burn-in-sunlight-but-sparkles-instead* vampire (and his "family"). The only part that was remotly interesting was when Bella was being hunted...which was also the shortest bit in the whole plot.
The conversation between Bella and Ed was like watching 2 people play 20 questions, why they fall in love isn't explored they just are in love (being super handsome and having tasty smelling blood doesn't count), and the biggest mystery of all...why the h*ll did SM make Bella so clumsy?? What was the point, she fell when there was nothing in her way, she fell when she wasn't even moving, she fell when she wasn't even standing.
Everything else has been said and I agree with it, Twilight was one of the most boring books I've ever read and I really felt like I was an alien once I finished it because so many people were telling me that it is similar to Harry Potter, and was fantastic ect ect.

[BR_FL]

Dreamydre15, for every humongous, creepy, obsessive tween fan base or group, there will be a group just as large but with more reason against that fanbase. EX: Hannah Montana.

Note I said obsessive.

[CormorantEnt_SC]

Heck, not to sound self-absorbed, but I agree that (almost) anyone can write a better book than Twilight. Not so sure how well my Mosquatlon mythology will sell, given that it's partially a parody of Underworld, but even that would bring about more depth than Steph-Mey's capable of.

And the film? Fast guy + bloodthirsty monster-of-the-week + teenie-bop hype + ditzy damsel in distress + high school misfits + small town setting = SMALLVILLE!

It felt like an over-long Smallville episode; or worse, a Buffy-Smallville crossover!

[sohewasall_SC]

I agree with all of the points made by people about the reasons why Twilight is bad. I personally would give the book a 4/10, because I thought the plot was interesting, and because it made me laugh - not its intention. Since I feel that the points of why it's terrible have all been made, I'm only going to talk about the author. I agree that Stephenie Meyer is completely in love with Edward. Which is a bad thing for an author to do, like Rabid said I believe. I think she made her Bella character a model of herself- clumsy, mildly attractive, shy, etc. Then she makes most of the young male characters of the first novel fall for Bella. Why on earth would so many guys like Edward, Jacob, and Mike (not to mention tracker vampire James) want someone so dull and non-special? Especially "perfect" Edward? It seems like Meyer's little fantasy world - ordinary girl moves to small town where everyone falls in love with her and tries to kill each other to win her love!

Ugh just writing this makes me annoyed. I dislike all the hype that Twilight has gotten, and I don't think it deserves any of it. The fangirls who are obsessed (different from people who just enjoy the book, and take it for what it is- entertaining but not great) are so... useless.

Mildly off-topic, but I like this comparison: Twilight vs. Harry Potter is like Eragon vs. Lord of the Rings. Badly written books by young authors sell millions of copies, and get compared to the great fantasy stories, written by talented, creative adults, just because they sell so well. I know that the Harry Potter books aren't the greatest novels of all time, but they are well-written, fascinating, and have enormous amounts of thought and planning put into them, unlike Twilight. Reading Eragon is like reading bad fan-fiction about Lord of the Rings, in my opinion.

And I thought the Twilight movie was abysmal. Putting Meyer into a cameo, where her name is said?! How... trashy. I know, I know, "off topic", but I don't think it is- the movie has gotten as much press as the book, and the fangirls love their RPattz.

Again, I love the great comments (including the OP). You all sure have a lot of good, respectful, and educated thoughts to say on the subject that is forced in my face every day.

[BR_FL]

Ouch, uncalled for on the Eragon side =p It's all good. Eragon is definitely no LotR, but even Twilight isn't on par with it. I see some effort, and for Twilight, well, it just looks sloppy, reads sloppy, and is just dull. The characters a bland Mary Sues and Gary Stues.
In Romeo and Juliet, Juliet is not infallible. She is naive, yes, but she suffers consequences for her actions proving she is personable. That is what makes a good character.
Bella, through her utter stupidity, cries for a whole book, leads on guys, gets knocked up by a guy with supposedly venom for bodily fluids, has a sparkle baby and turns into a vampire to live happily forever. She doesn't even have to go through motherhood because her baby is so "uber smartz". There is no consistency, at all. It's predictable in a very bad way.

[heavenzdvl987_SC]

Never read it or watched the movies, but everyone I even halfway respect hates it, therefore I think it's worthless. :P I guess I should consider reading it myself..

[CormorantEnt_SC]

I wouldn't say it's fair to compare Harry Potter and Twilight at all. They're not the same genre. Twilight vs. Underworld, however, would be a fairer comparison. While Edward can sparkle motion his way through the day, once night falls, the the Death Dealers would rip him to shreds without a second thought. And Lucian vs. Jacob? Is there even a contest who would win? Or to go for the "overkillz," William vs. Jacob?

Or...Renesemee vs. Markus...

James vs. Viktor...

Alice vs. Selene...

You get my point.

[Kissamies]

Haven't read the books, but since this is one of those things a lot of people love to hate, I've been paying attention to it. I checked out the movie, which wasn't that impressive, but I got the impression that it did the best it could considering the source material. I've also read The Host. Body snatching alien invaders push my buttons better than sparkly vampires. Sci-fi element in that book was decent enough, but it was so long winded and boring especially in the middle that I had to take a break and read another book before I went back and finished it. The main character and some of the others annoyed me a bit too.

Anyways I found this (http://stoney321.livejournal.com/317176.html) a pretty interesting read. Check out the ones about the other books in the series too.

[Theory of Everything_SC]

Oh my god, Kissamies, that is an awesome find. I laughed my butt off. I didn't realize there was so many Mormon connections, but it does indeed make sense.

[AxelValentine]

Kissamies, Thank you!! That link made me laugh so much. I favorited the second part to read when I get through the second book.

Well, personally, I read the book for two reasons: To see what the fuss was about, and so I could help my mom write a lesson plan about it for her "Reading for Pleasure" class. I hated the first half, absolutely nothing happened.
I found myself liking the secondary characters because they had some kind of life to them (I really liked the two guys that fought over Bella, they were hilarious) Jacob was probably my favorite character just because I know he's supposed to be a werewolf and I'll always pick wolf over bat. Plus his dad was funny :]
Edward creeped me out as much I expected him too, but Alice and Jasper were bearable. I only liked Emmett because he was so implausible and would be such a horrible person in real life (he is schadenfraude to the extreme)
The last bit got a lot better though. THINGS ACTUALLY STARTED TO HAPPEN, ZOMG.

*spoilers for anyone who wants to read past part 1*
But yes, the best part of that book was the "sneak-peek" of the second one because in it Bella cuts her entire arm (not just a scrape, she cuts from the inside of her elbow down to the wrist) in front of the Cullen family. That was my only motivation to buy the second book, and I only wanted to get the last two once I found out she has a little devil baby that tries to kill her at one point.
I was recently motivated by someone at school to read the rest of them because she said something about Edward ripping someone's head off (YAY REAL VAMPIRE STUFF!) and the devil-baby again.
*spoiler over*

I watched the movie because that's just something I do - watch movies made from books to compare them, and I liked it better. It made laugh so many times, and Rob was super creepy (I loved him as Cedric in Harry Potter, but now he's...eugh) and Jasper was adorable, haha. Bella constantly looked like she was half asleep or about to have a stroke - she barely talked, stammered when she did and her mouth was always hanging open. Billy Burke (Charlie) and Gil Birmingham (Billy) were the best actors in it, though I did love the on-screen Eric, I wanted more of him.

Really, the movie was one of those that are so bad it almost hurts but you love it for being so awful.

My two cents. :]

[madisonx]

I've never read the book and I possibly never will. I'm not one to read books when you can see a perfectly understandable movie, same to be said about Harry P.

I think Twilight is almost perfection. It's a shame that Bella isn't perfection herself, she's quite a plain Jane but her acting is great. I'm a bit grossed out by the goryness in the Ballet place scene, or is that just me? haha. Edward Cullen is perfection, no doubt about it. I do get annoyed about all the fan girls. Whatever YouTube video I look like, perhaps a song that is so not connected to twilight likee.. hm, Dear Maria, Count Me In - the comments are like
'This soo reminds me of Bella and Edward!'
'OMG this would be perfect for Twilight!'
I swear I even saw a comment like that on Girlfriend - Avril Lavigne.
What is the point, really?
Sure, express your love but no need to flood YouTube with Twilight obsessed comments..

[Keri.ily]

I am a full blown fan. That's my opion . I just liked it. I am a teen. I bought the books, I read it. I loved it. I'm not the only one in this world. She isn't the worst writer. I thought it was great. Personally I though the movie made it suck. He couldn't resist bein in an ocean, and Jacob just had to imprint on Renesme :p So there, Jacob hurt her more. Edward hurt her. They are even. Don't know if you've figured out, I am Team Edwardooo! I am proud of it. I cring when I hear Jacob, or Taylor Lautner, both are grose. Taylor because he makes himself gay xP

[davoxx]

Here I go...

Twilight. There are three major problems with the Twilight series. I'll put them in nice little bulleted paragraphs for you. :)

1. Edward and Bella's ABUSIVE (yes, abusive) relationship
Edward's kind of an obsessive psychopath. He watches her sleep for christ's sakes! He uses force, intimidation and coercion to control Bella's actions. He manipulates her into marrying him, which is something she REALLY doesn't want to do. He hides important information from her, and he breaks her heart to "protect her" when truly, better protection would've been to stay with her.

2. The lack of depth in the characters
Edward. Edward, Edward, Edward. He is the most shallow character I've ever read about. Ever! He is two dimensional - no - one dimensional. He has one side. He is a vampire. He is sexy. He is charming and witty and intelligent and pefect. Okay, we get it. Where are his flaws? He has none! One might say "Oh, he's a vampire! You know, a killer and stuff!" That doesn't count as a flaw. That's as silly as saying in a book about aliens that being an alien is a flaw! Where is the logic in this book? There is none!
And Bella! She is flat. Flat, flat, flat. She's a human. She is plain. She is in love with a vampire. She's about as interesting as an earthworm. And her emo phase in New Moon? I wanted to claw my eyes out so I wouldn't have to read anymore about her "holding herself together". She's nothing but a parasite. She needs another person to survive. First Edward, then Jacob, then Edward again. Ugh. She makes me sick.
Jacob is seriously the deepest character in the books! I'm still team Jacob. Oh, and I think it's super creepy that he imprinted on Renesme.

3. The pace is way too fast
Waayy too many things happen in a very short amount of time. It's almost like being on a rollercoaster.
I can't even begin to explain.

It sucks that I wasted five months of my life on that crap.

On the other hand, the movie was decent. Considering the utter crap it's based on.

Feel free to try to rebuke this, or support it.
If you can change my mind I will bake you cookies. :]


I totally agree with this - i watched this movie the other day and it was absolutely horrendous!! i cant believe they are making another one -there was no redeemable features of this drivel xx

[TRIriana]

I read more of the book, and here are my thoughts of previous chapters.

Vampire Meeting Continuation

I will spend only a brief time on this part, since I commented so much on it previously. Here goes! Sm...dear...Edward, Alice, Emmet and Jasper are not strange and unpopular names. Just because your imagination thinks they are, does not make it so.

Gosh, I'm glad I got that out of my system! Anyway...

Naturally the only seat available in Bella's class is the one next to Edward, simply because they have to meet in some typical and cliche way. And of course she's already studied the current lesson topic, giving her reason enough to study Edward instead of listening. Onto Edward's reaction. I genuinely thought for the entire scene that SM was trying and failing to infer that Edward had become aroused by Bella - he tensed when she was so close to him, and was stiff in his seat the entire lesson. Though I must say, Bella's attempt at not watching him through the veil of hair in front of her eyes, was an incredibly bad attempt. I say it was a bad attempt because it's incredibly difficult to study someone when long hair is also obscuring your face - I say this also because SM then goes on to describe Bella's view of him, which should not be possible. SM is attempting to describe Edward through Bella, and failing.

This is the first time Edward and Bella are within a few scant centimentres of each other, and it fell incredibly flat and bland.

Chapter Two Onwards

Vague mutterings about Bella's ridiculous hatred of rain, about her clumsiness - and because Edward was not in school. Again. a case of Bella seeking out problems for herself. So someone appeared not to like you? Get over it. Bella's continual thinking about Edward being absent, for the next few pages, are repetitive, boring and bordering on the stalker behaviour that sparkle boy will later display. Bella has seen Edward three times, and her sudden obsession is out of left field, considering she tried to play herself earlier on as this quiet, outsider non-confrontational gal.

Her attitude at her mother sending two or three messages. I sense SM is trying desperately to peg Bella's mother as this weakling, clingy woman I think. But having her mother send two emails asking how Bella is...quite a few days after her only teenaged daughter has moved across State, and not to been bothered to even let her mom know she arrived safetly? That is not unreasonable.

And later on...surprise, surprise. Princess Bella doesn't like snow. Yawn.

And then, not too long after, Bella meets Edward again.

"H-how do you know my name?" I stammered.

Perhaps because you established earlier on that, in this small town lots of people were expecting you? Because you're the only new girl in school recently? Because it was also established a couple of pages previously that your father knows Edward's father? Because you're the Sherriff's daughter?

"No," I persisted stupidly. "I meant, why did you call me Bella?"

Because he heard your friends calling you this?

I don't know if this is truly SM trying wholeheartedly to make Bella dumb, or if her jeuvenile writing skills are rearing its ugly head again, but it reads awkwardly.

She also succeeds in making Mr. Banner appear dumb - he automatically assumes that Bella must have had Edward identify all of the phases. Not only that but her student records would have been sent over, wherein it should have been stated that Bella was in an Advanced Placement Program - Bella's apparent intelligence in this subject should have come as no surprise to the teacher.

End of chapter two. On to more akward, lackluster dialogue and attempts at injecting feeling into the paragraphs.

Whatever the reason, Mike's puppy dog behavior and
Eric's apparent rivalry with him were disconcerting. I wasn't sure if I didn't prefer being
ignored.

Comments like this, for me, further distance the gap there is already, between helping me to feel for Bella's character. She's very harsh and, frankly, does not deserve the attention that her friends are giving her. They're worth far more than she is - they try to help, and she basically wants them to go away.

And onto the near accident: Bella posseses some type of Mutant ability, clearly. The time it takes for a skidding car to hit a stationary car a few feet away are incredibly few. Yet Bella is able to see several things happen at the same time and, not only that, see everything perfectly! Remember, this is important because SM needs to create tension!

This of course, is ignoring that while Bella saw several things happening at once...also didn't have time to close her eyes. Or jump out of the way.

Bella, Bella, Bella...you're really not helping that Damsel in Distress image you have going there. This is supposed to be the scene where Bella truly realises that Edward Cullen is not all that he seems, but it's written in a couple of paragraphs. It just left me thinking...what was the point? Something so important should have had more dedicated to it...more feeling...less run on sentences.

And then they found us, a crowd of people with tears streaming down their faces,
shouting at each other, shouting at us.

And this comment seemed like it had been thrown in there because SM had only just remembered there were other students in the parking lot. And she has all the crowd crying like that? The sentence is very immature, and despite the talk of tears, is still empty.

And apparently SM forgets what she had written a mere page before. Bella hit her head on the icy blacktop, and there was a thudding ache above her left ear. Both of these happened, yes...after she hit her head... But Edward is seemingly a traitor for, rightly, telling the EMTs that she probably has a concussion. Bella's reaction to this, and the necessary precautions taken, are...pathetic. This kid who SM has tried to make out as intelligent, is yet again showing how childish she is.

And the Nurses are also able to determine - from what little writing there is - that they can tell Bella does not have concussion, from only an X-Ray. She's only examined after this conclusion. I don't think SM knows how hospitals work. Even is SM claims there was no research on Vampires for her book - research would have helped in times like these.

Despite my outright lies, the tenor of my e-mails alerted Renée to my depression

Firstly, why has Bella taken to calling her mother by her given name in her thoughts? It's shown earlier on that she calls her father his given name, and her mother...mom. There's no explanation for a big alteration like this. And Smella (considering SM seems to project herself into the Mary Sue, SMeyer and Bella have now become one) must have no idea what depression is, if she can have Bella thinking this. Seriously.

I think one of the big problems with any attempt at getting into the whole Bella/Edward 'ship is...the basis of it is Bella becoming enraptured with his "mystery" and his looking like some ridiculous Adonis. She has no idea what he's actually like - and her obsession begins after he ignores her in class. The major problem is it isn't written well. A 'ship based on obsession should be dangerous, elicit, terrifying at times...all of the things that are utterly missing. These are not compelling characters. They are shallow, two-dimensional and repetitive. Smella takes an amazing creature of myth and legend and strips them of anything that makes them compelling. As a "twist" she makes them sparkle and be able to walk in daylight: from what I've seen so far, having them be able to stand in daylight and sparkle does nothing other than make them...well...sparkle like diamonds. Which, if I was a jewel thief, would be great. I have an awesome canon RP character who is a thief and she could have tons of fun with this. But it isn't a twist. And secondly, vampires walking in daylight is not new. If Smella had done her research, she would have found this out too.

Gym was brutal. We'd moved on to basketball. My team never passed me the ball, so
that was good, but I fell down a lot.

You know what? The clumsy Bella thing is getting a little ridiculous - right, she falls down despite never being passed the basketball. Repeatedly. And then the other tedious repeat - three of the boys at the school asking Bella to the dance, all despite it being the girls' choice. I must ask...why? The character is so flat, there is very little to like. Of course though, all the boys are copies of each other in everything but name, so naturally it would be like this.

Well, more later!

[meggie272]

Hmmm. All you people deriding the book seem to have read it pretty thorougly :P Why'd you waste your money, if you hate it so much?

I personally am a huge Twilight fan. I dont' know what it is, it just draws me in. I like SM's style of writing. I also agree with a lot of the comments made here. It is NOT Harry Potter quality writing. It is not Ann Rice quality writing. It is a good read, not a literary classic. OK, so it is a bit slushy. But I am not a snob about books, I just read them for fun and if the writing is a little bad or whatever, I try to just enjoy the plot anyway.

One thing I hated about the books was Edward, though. I loved him in the first book. Gorgeous charming vampire who sparkles. It made my teenage heart flutter *wub* But with the next 1500 pages of the series, he got more and more tedious. Perfect as always. Always ends up back with Bella after HE is the cause for the break-up/fight. Sparkle sparkle, OOOOH, he's growling at an enemy, isn't that hot omgz. Ugh.

And then Bella has to go and become a vampire, which pissed me off, because now she's beautiful and agile and fast and isn't Bella anymore, she's a superwoman.

Jacob was my favourite character. He had the most depth, I think. I loved Bella/Jacob scenes, and I loved most of New Moon (no Edward, lotsa Jacob!!). I cried when I read their kiss in Eclipse (not the first one where she breaks her hand by punching him). Sigh.

[Diana Prallon]

I'm pretty sure ANYONE can write a better novel than Twilight.

Twilight, as I've gathered, if horrendously god-awful - a glorified fanfiction. And the content seems to be completely inappropriate for it's target audience Especially the fourth book. Come on, horribly painful sex that continues after Bella has fallen unconcious... a grown man falling in love with a baby? Mother's shouldn't allow their girls to read this tripe.

You know, one of the things that made me angrier about Twilight is that I knew more than a handful of people, that are/used to be Harry Potter fanfiction writers and who fall head over hills with the book... Despite the fact that if they ever came across with a fanfic that was so badly written, they'd trash it in the same moment. And, also, from the fact they were countless times superior writers to SM.

I really enjoyed Twilight though. I adored it, specially the worst things about it. Spending so many (so many!) years as a part of HP fandom made me love trashy style. And I couldn't help myself in laughing through most part of the book -- and specially New Moon's depression phase -- which made me enjoy the ride a whole lot more. Reading a plotless book, with paper deep characters and an annoying first person voice would generally make me hate it but since mockery is my sheppard, I shall not be in want", I actually liked it.

Of course, that doesn't mean I didn't hate it -- I found grammar mistakes, I found an incredible number of repetitions, I found it a terrible role model for young girls, and everything else that people have already said. (For the record, I didn't spent any money on it, and ocasionally picked upon a bookstore the brazillian translation to take a look through, its shameful to say that it was better revised than the original).

Someone, at some point, mentioned it isn't much different from a Meg Cabot book, that it has the same flaws... And although I agree, you gotta admit that Meg Cabot, she writes humour books. Of course, there are romaces, but she writes it with a humorous tone, as if she was winking at the (older?) audience and saying "Yes, I know, this is stupid, right? Still don't we all go through it at some point?" while SM is actually trying to create drama. So, while I can give MC some respect for the fact that she's making fun of her characters and even of herself, I can't do the same for SM. Because SM -really- think she's an author, and really thinks she's writing drama.

Someone should give her Looking for Alaska so that SM would at least have an idea how we write drama for teenagers/YA these days.

[chyrun]

I bought the books because I liked the movie. God, I'm really too immature for my age. Now the books are gathering dust on the bookshelf because I don't want to touch them with a ten feet pole. I couldn't even get to the end of book one. It's so bad. Bella is such a negative character and even though I'm not exactly miss sunshine either, most of the time I feel like hitting her with something...hard.
I agree it's badly written and the characters have absolutely no depth.

[Diana Prallon]

I watched the movie because my (younger) sister called me as soon as she left the movies, laughing so much I barely could understand what she said, saying it was absolutely perfect and that she had never laughed more in her life in a drama movie.

SM ruined the words dazzled and sparkle for me.

[Brad2006]

How on earth can your sister find it funny? I never read the books because of the fandom, any books that is filled with tween's fantasy(excluding the masochistic intercourse I heard people said) with giggling, immature, and negatively naive girls as the majority of its fans is not the kind of book I want to read(fyi, hardcore fangirls doesn't respond to logic)

My cousin loved Edward so much it's disgusting, I hope she knows that there won't be any guy as perfect as that in real life, she's turning 20 this year

P.S. Kristen Stewart is perfect for Bella, she looked so plain and emotionless(her face that is), I wonder what she would looked like if she played the vampired Bella(being perfect and all, one thing for sure, she's going to look sick like other vampires)

[Diana Prallon]

The dialog is ridiculously fake, unreal and cheesy. There is no plot, and things doesn't really make sense. It features the biggest Gary Stu in living history. And I won't even beggin with the Mary Bella Swuean. Kristen Stewart can't act for her life (although the character is so plain I'm not really sure it's her fault afterall). She found it really funny, because it's a supposedly a drama but really, it's just ridiculous.

I really didn't find the intercourse masochistic -- although I have no idea why on earth they decided that the best place for a first time, which a guy that has no fluid was on the salty atlantic sea, which surely hurt.

She's turning 20? And in love with Edward? Maybe this twilight thing is more serious than I ever thought. My sister is eighteen and finds him ridiculous, I guess it changes a lot.

[Brad2006]

I just read Twilight and New Moon, god! Edward is so morally straight, everything is bad for Bella, and Bella is a heartless, thoughtless, selfish, ungrateful b***h! I wished I can smack them both accross their stupid brainless heads.

I hate most of the characters, especially the two leads, in Twilight, it seems SM tried to shake things up a bit after 60% of the story revolves around Edward's love for Bella and his perfections by adding some bella-thirsty vampires.

In New Moon, Bella is ridiculously over melodramatic("oh the hole in my chest" and "I can hear dead people..."), she also used others for her personal interests, which disgusts me, and Jacob is turning into a hateable character too, and of course, since SM thought that vampires should be sparkly, werewolves should be humongous

I'm going to read Eclipse and Breaking Dawn soon, and watch Twilight too, just to get done with it all(I heard some rumours about Midnight Sun, I hope it's not true)

[Requiem19]

Horrible! The worst series of books I have ever had the misfortune of having read! I had to force myself to finish the first three books. I only read them because I was tired of people saying I couldn't hate the books without reading them. :lol: Gah, don't even get me started on Twilight!

[Brad2006]

So I finished all 4 books, I must say Twilight saga wasn't that great, it's mediocre at best, the book would be better with a third person narration rather than thru the eyes of Bella or Jacob

New Moon is the worst of them, too emo or something like that, while Breaking Dawn seems strangely cut short, I want some bloodshed, where good triumph over evil like Harry Potter 7

[willwrightfan]

Twilight was written for the mindless masses.
Excuse me? I don't know about everyone else, but I think that was rude. I'm pretty much addicted to Twilight. It's suspenseful and romantic and basically everything anyone could ask for in a book. I know some people hate Twilight-I'm cursed with having a bunch of Twilight haters in my homeroom that follow me around just so they can tell me how much they hate Twilight. I think it is perfection. I think Harry Potter and Twilight are.

[Ellebasi]

Dude, you spent 5 whole months on something you dislike so much, really?

Honestly, I'm a proud fan but I know it isn't the best book in the world nor do I idolize Stephenie Meyer.

I just read the first book, got swept up in their world and felt the need to read the other books as well.

I get the 'abusive relationship' comment, but honestly, there's no way Edward would be able to have a normal relationship. That'd just be so weird.

Lack of depth in characters, really? Edward has flaws! I mean come on! He's overprotective and blames himself for EVERYTHING. You call him 'obsessive psychopath', that's a pretty big flaw, isn't it?


Honestly, I just wish we lovers and haters could live in harmony. Everyone won't love it, let's just accept it and move on. As cheesy as it sounds I have gained some hope from these books, which makes them very dear to my heart.

If someone else interprets the characters and events in another way, I don't blame them for disliking it.

[ChickenDress]

Is this really a debate? I'll share my two cents, anyway. I read Twilight to see what all the hullaballoo was about and why it was knocking some fantastic novels down on the bestseller list- I typically don't waste my time on mainstream books, but after my curiosity was sated, I wasn't impressed.

It's not that the books are bad, per se, but the writing and the literary devices are atrocious. Like you said, the characters lack dimension and are idealized to the point of annoyance. This could just be a matter of taste, but I read three books a week looking for lush description, poignant emotional imagery, and characters that overcome their innate flaws, none of which I found in the Twilight series. The plot is somewhat decent, but I think the series could have been so much more if put in the hands of a far more skilled writer, because the author uses a redundant host of about thirty adjectives and writes for a fifth-grade audience. As a passionate conoisseur of literature, I just think that they're incredibly sub-par and badly written; not badly plotted, but poorly executed. If you're looking for quality vampire literature, go read Anne Rice; don't settle for Twilight.


I agree with the Edward thing...that's why I'm Team Jacob...he is way too perfect and Jacob is human, he makes mistakes. I love Twilight though...that might just be because I'm in the "teen"' age group.

[Shikonah]

I gotta go with what Stephen King said about the novels: The difference between Twilight and Harry Potter is that Meyer is a bad writer.

That being said, I liked Twilight when I first read them, and loved the series...for a while. But having read them once I can't say I'm interested in going back for another round--something I generally like to do. Why? Because I feel that these were "opportunity" books; sure they were marketed at the same time as the HP books, but they didn't reach their astounding popularity until the boy wizard and his series were over, and everyone was just looking for the next big series of fantasy to cross their paths and Twilight was a convenient escape. Because of that, I don't think they live up to their full potential--the characters are very strained, because they have no dimensions.

The story is painfully repetitive, and doesn't really link up as much as other novel-series I've read do: it's constantly switching between three main plots, Bella-Edward, vampire vs wolf, vampire fight. Meyer simply took an overrated legend (vampirism and lycanthropy) and decided to run with it, and didn't give it any such manner of twist at all-- which shows poor creativity, much like the general world inside her novels. The whole scape of the series is basically 2D, and could have used a lot more planning and elaboration -- not so much basic detail but true DEPTH. Give Edward more qualities than a "perfect man who never really grew up and who has relationship-focused obsessive compulsive traits" and make the other leading male, Jacob, someone who's more than "an immature brat who's transformation abilities magically put him a step up above everyone, even though he's obviously not smart enough to be there." I also think she could've let some air out of Bella's fantasy-land as well, because she went from "whining, pathetically uncoordinated human who makes all females look bad" to "agile, graceful, perfect mother who nearly died for her baby in an agonizingly dramatic way."

That being said, all the flaws I hate about the books are hindsight, and even though I kind of liked them the first time, in thinking about the plot and the characters (as well as seeing that terrible excuse for a movie based on them) I definitely won't be reading anything of her sort of work again. It's mainly because this series has no class and imagination, so no, to answer the question: far from perfect.

[PennyTheCorgi]

Ugh, I tried to read the first book and didn't even make it all the way through. SM either keeps bad notes or doesn't care if most of the things she writes don't make sense. I could have gotten past that if not for the mess that is her main character Bella. She's a whiny, self pitying damsel in distress. I swear it seemed like every chapter was either her complaining about something that was unfair, swooning in the face of "danger", or whining about how she can't live without Edward (even though she'll probably see him the next day.

[kuroftw]

Pretty much agreed with OP's post. That, and Meyer's writing is just atrocious, and her books are simply a way to make abstinence and mormon values more appealing to teens.

[danirawr_SC]

I can't be bothered reading through 3 pages of people mostly insulting the series, but I really wish people could realise that being a Twilight fan doesn't make someone an illiterate fangirl who wants to marry Edward Cullen.

I'm not singling out people here, because I didn't read the thread, but in general that's all I seem to come across. I don't care if people dislike, or even hate, Twilight. That's their choice and it doesn't bother me in the slightest.

But when people go so far to label an ENTIRE fanbase, that's when I get frustrated.
I adore the books... but I also see their flaws and have fun bitching about Smeyer. Not all of us are psychotically obsessive teenies who believe Twilight is the height of amazing literature, and I just wish that some of the more aggressive haters could see that.

I really dislike seeing insults to the fanbase, with people claiming that it's dribble for mindless teenagers. You can enjoy something and see its flaws, and there are a LOT of mature, rational Twilight fans who can see its good and bad side.

It's the Twimoms and obsessive 12 years olds who worship Edward that give us all a bad name. I say we burn them.

[meggie272]

Agreed, danirawr.
I am a fan but I also realise the many flaws in the book and I'm not OBSESSED with it (well, maybe Jacob. Just a little bit!!!) You don't have to be a total Edward worshipper and bad speller to read and enjoy Twilight.
Somewhere on the Internet someone posted a good, well-rounded, non bitchy and well thought out comment about how they didn't like Edward Cullen. They weren't over the top about it, or anything. Someone writes back "omg u r so gay edward culleen - yep, they spelt it like that - is way better than u and always will be ur just a homo".

Argh! *headdesk*

[angel4rab]

I just finished reading this series a couple of days ago. When i first heard about the movie i wasnt too bothered about seeing it or reading the books. I picked the books up cause i had some spare cash, they were on sale and i wanted something too read. I hated the constant repeating lines of how sparkly edward was and how nothing else mattered. If all of that nonsense was taken out of the book then all four books would probably fit into the first. It was a somewhat good story when it got to the point. It took me longer to get through the jacob part as i felt kind of sorry for him. Im defintly a jacob fan more than any the other characters. I read on her site the edward side of twilight and it was nice to see it through his eyes, his was less sparkly which was a nice change.

[Brad2006]

Agreed, danirawr.
I am a fan but I also realise the many flaws in the book and I'm not OBSESSED with it (well, maybe Jacob. Just a little bit!!!) You don't have to be a total Edward worshipper and bad speller to read and enjoy Twilight.
Somewhere on the Internet someone posted a good, well-rounded, non bitchy and well thought out comment about how they didn't like Edward Cullen. They weren't over the top about it, or anything. Someone writes back "omg u r so gay edward culleen - yep, they spelt it like that - is way better than u and always will be ur just a homo".

Argh! *headdesk*

Can you give a link? I'm interested to read it, that someone must be a fangirl/boy/mom or a latent homosexual

[meggie272]

Sorry Brad, I had a look around but couldn't find the one I was looking for...pretty sure it was on Yahoo Answers. :) It was ages ago. But there are plenty of examples of obsessive Twilight-ism around. Here are a few - by the way, if anyone from this board posted these, I'm not having a go at you in person, just the fancult you represent -

OMG!! How can you say this!? I am literally in love with Edward. the thing with edward is that he makes bella feel hole again!! It’s a little thing called true love, bella truly loves edward as her one and only but her uncertainty about jacob means she doesn’t love him in the same way, I would become a vampire the second I had the chance for edward. And I mean that.

OOOOH MY GOD! you freak! i <3 edward more than like anyone in anybook or movie EVERRRR! i wish i was bella no joke! and jacob a weirdo!

u all stink edward is soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much better he is meant 4 bella and if u havent read breaking dawn then dont read this but he is able 2 take a child birth because bella gets pregneant and has a baby but edward has 2 do a c-section 2 get the baby aka renesme out and he does it without sucking anyones blood so ha

OK SERIOUSLY.
I am 13 & I don't act like that!!!!!!!!!!!! What is with them all!?

[Lena:][:]

Well, my signature says it all :]

He's nothing too special, everyone freaks out about him. I hate over-obsessers.

Twilight was O.K, but it was written crappy :3

Not gonna bother watching New Moon.

[Brad2006]

Does over-obsession equals poor grammar? Probably
I agree with Lena:][:, Twilight was written crappy, I thought that books are edited before being printed but Twilight has typos or wrong grammars here and there, a lot of it's contents are empty fillers(thank god the movie cuts most of the Edward-obsessing crap), and being a 100+ years old doesn't mean you'll use some old and unnecessary words like Edward, you'll probably adapt yourself and even lose your old speaking habits

New Moon was the worst of the sequel, but who knows, maybe they can make the movie better than the book

[lethifold]

Well, I watched the official trailer for New Moon today, and I cracked up. I couldn't stop laughing. There were some bits of it which looked so bad, and they added in all the unnecessary parts by the look of it. I hate it when movie makers do that.
On the topic of over-obsessers, I find it so bad when I see people wearing Twilight shirts. Example, there was a girl on my bus today, and she was wearing a shirt that said "Forget being a princess, I want to be a vampire". I shuddered when I saw it, and I don't understand how people can get that obsessed.

[Phoeberg]

I don't hate Twilight, but I don't love it. It's not the worst book ever but it is really badly written. I can't stand the way the same words are repeated over and over, like chagrin. How many people can be described as chagrin in one book, let alone 4?! The best book was New Moon because Edward basically wasn't in it. Edward is fundamentally a creepy stalker and abusive boyfriend and I have met too many people who think that a boy behaving like that is "sweet".

My biggest problem with it is the fangirls. There was some forum, I wish I could remember what it was called, for Twlight haters and they had a thread devoted to the injuries/attacks they had endured from fangirls. It was scary. One girl almost got her throat cut in school by another girl, another ended up with a broken leg because she rolled her eyes at the book! I'll try to find the link.

EDIT: Okay, found it-

http://twilightsucks.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=fangirls&action=display&thread=5175

[Brad2006]

oh my god! I can't believe the fans has turned to obsessed psychos, well, in my country we don't give any crap about showing our "enthusiasm" about books, we just said we love it and talk about it, and that's it, nothing more

Although there are some school politics that kills, but that's off topic anyway

[jillbean]

Ok im going to stick up for twilight here. Just for reference im not 12 im 22. Im engaged and dont compare him to Edward. I do know this is not real. My mum, his mum and my 17 year old brother all loved the books. Anyway moving on.

1. Edward and Bella's ABUSIVE (yes, abusive) relationship -

Imagin for like 100 years you have been able to read anybodies mind that you have come across. Now imagin that you meet this girl and you cant read her mind. You sneek into her house one night to try and find out more about her and find out she talks in her sleep. This is the closest you can get to knowing what shes thinking with out her censoring it. So you watch her everynight. Not out of being a crazy stalker. But trying to find out what is so special about this girl or is it just something wrong with you. To be honest i think i would proberly do the same thing.

He manipulates her into marrying him
Yes he does manipulate her, but she does the same to him. And although she originally doesnt want to marry him, this is only because she fears what her mother and friends will think of her, geting married so young. After she stops caring about that, she does want to get married.

He hides important information from her
Only to try and protect her. He just goes slightly over board. I know iv been lied to had things hidden from me to try and protect me. And yes he should have stayed but he done what he thought was right, but in the end made an error (ohhhh errror - kinda like a flaw - lol)

The lack of depth in the characters
Edward - Edward has many flaws as shown in your previous point. Although yes on the surface he is perfect he is far from it. Hes an outcast. Both socially and romantically. Everyone has someone but him (as his family goes) He has seen so much love around him that when he gets a little chance of it, he wants to protect it how ever he can. Which leads him to do some stupid and flawed things.

Bella
To be honest im a bit taken aback by your calling it her emo phase - its called depresion. Anyway shes never fitted in anywhere, shes had few friends (that we know of) and no boyfriends. And then she finds this guy whos an outcast just like her, they fall in love (plus theres the added bonus that hes hot rich clever and talented) and then he tells her he doesnt love her and leaves her. Everything she though was true was taken away from her. She was woken up by this amazing guy and then he just leaves. Id be prety bummed (or emo) as well.

And you talk about her always needing someone. Well shes always looked after her mum, been the grown up and then when somthing bad happenes to her shes not alowed to need some help for once. I no when i have broken up with someone my friends are the ones i turn to. Just like she did with jacob. It was him that was pushing the relationship thing. And yes bella was plain, but that was the point, so every girl could identify with her, and have their own little fantasies - You got to give it to her it worked.

Also i think its creepy about jacob and renesme to.




3. The pace is way too fast
i didnt find that persoanlly. But then again your teenage years feel like they go so fast, like there are so many things happening and new things coming your way - teenagers are the target audience rememeber.

TRIriana -

Her calling him charlie i though was self exmplantory. She hasnt lived with him since a baby, she only spend summers with him. He wasnt really a dad to her, i dont think it needed spelling out.

The cars things - I know models, makes of some cars, and would know enough to ask some questions about cars. How ever i would not know enought to be able to fix a 60 year old truck (cant rememeber how old the truck really is) and i think thats what she means when she said she didnt know anything.

She would still be an outsider. Yes she has visted forks (not the past few summers as you suggested, she meet her dad somewhere else for the past few summers). She described it as the daughter of the flightly ex wife of the cheif of police (round about i cant rememeber it exacly) she is the outsider because she left, she didnt live in the town only visited. Charlie's cheif of police so she would know people, yet she has descibed him as working all the time and married to his job, in this case he problerly wouldnt have taken her out alot or socialised with people with kids the same age. Also they would have spent alot of time on the reservation.

Ok so basically its not the best written book, but i love it. Yes i said love. People are reading far to much into this book it is not a litery piece of genius, read to much into it and you wont enjoy it. Just acept it for what it is and induge yourself in a bit of fanasty.

Also if iv seemed a bit harsh its just cos i cant be bothered to keep writing lol at the end of every sentence, i really am rather loverly, tee hee.

[Whatwedobest]

I totally agree with you! I have read all of the books and they suck so bad. The characters aren't thought out and the plot... well it just stinks. Everyone is like in love with it and it just makes me sick. "Yes let's go waste our time reading about a little Emo girl named Bella who is in love with a vampire!" Everyone is wearing those stupid shirts like "I only date vampires", "Twilight" and "Edward is for me", it makes me sick. For god's sake go read a decent book like 1984 or something!

[Phoeberg]

Everyone is wearing those stupid shirts like "I only date vampires", "Twilight" and "Edward is for me", it makes me sick. For god's sake go read a decent book like 1984 or something!

Exactly! I've had 13/14 year olds tell me they sleep with their windows open every single night so Edward can come in and bite them...he's not real.

I guess it's not so much the book that's the problem, but the reactions to it that bother me so much. They kind of border on delusional. Although having said that, I hate people holding up the book as some sort of brilliant work of fiction. Stephenie Meyer isn't exactly the new Jane Austen, Charlotte Bronte or Charlotte Perkins Gilman here. She wrote books about sparkly vampires.

[seizurefriendly]

Exactly! I've had 13/14 year olds tell me they sleep with their windows open every single night so Edward can come in and bite them...he's not real.


Man, my generation sucks.

[Phoeberg]

Man, my generation sucks.

Haha, I'm only 19 and I have several friends who act in the same way, although they aren't quite at the delusional stage. To my knowledge anyway. My roommate did get a bit obsessive over this boy she was convinced came into our room at night to watch us sleep...I think I talked her out of that though.

[seizurefriendly]

My roommate did get a bit obsessive over this boy she was convinced came into our room at night to watch us sleep...I think I talked her out of that though.

Ya never know. Did he sparkle in the sun?

[Phoeberg]

Ya never know. Did he sparkle in the sun?

I was more concerned about how she thought he was getting into our 4th floor room to watch us sleep when I locked the door every night to be honest!

[dallasindc]

If you want a good teen vampire fiction book, read the House of Night series by PC and Kristen Cast. All were VERY GOOD.

[HeyBubbe]

Being dead changes people.

LOL! Well said! :lol:

[Bobbi Fireox]

I read Twilight in early 2006. I got it out from the library, read it in a few days and had no intention of picking it up again.

I enjoyed it but I wasn't totally hooked lol. Then last year the movie came out, and I discovered there had been sequels! I had no idea xD.

I haven't read them and I don't intend to either.

SMeyer used too many adjectives in the one sentence and it ended up being void. That annoyed me to no end >.<

[HaphazardSim]

I read book 1....laughed and then got freaked out by the fangirls/boys/parents, I have never and will never understand the hype surrounding this series and whenever someone compares it to Harry Potter I feel like hitting them over the head.

[clockworkapple]

I find the series very disturbing due to the fact that Stephanie Meyer decided to romanticize sexism and abuse- It's even more creepy that millions of young girls are eating it up. xx

[Princess Leia]

I find the series very disturbing due to the fact that Stephanie Meyer decided to romanticize sexism and abuse- It's even more creepy that millions of young girls are eating it up. xx
My thoughts exactly. I don't even care that it's horribly written. Most bad books are harmless and entertaining. If it was just some stupid little story about vampires, it probably would've amused me to no end.

It just worries me that millions of girls and women think it's a realistic and acceptable portrayal of love. What in Lucifer's reaches is romantic about Edward Cullen?

I read the first book before all the hype and even then, I thought it was garbage. Not even 'so bad it's good', just... 'so bad it makes me want to go back in time and send a virus to Stephenie Meyer's computer to prevent her from inflicting this disease onto my generation'.

I'd just graduated high school when Twilight blew up and I'm so glad for that. I can't imagine being around all that garbage in a high school setting.

[SuicidiaParasidia]

I read book 1....laughed and then got freaked out by the fangirls/boys/parents, I have never and will never understand the hype surrounding this series and whenever someone compares it to Harry Potter I feel like hitting them over the head.

seconded, and im not even much of a harry potter fan....

*replying directly to the subject now.*

and obviously people who think bella was really depressed. really need to read up on depression. or go through it themselves. i'll end it there, though i feel like ranting completely about it...

IMHO, bella is the epitome of a useless female specimen. her very character is an insult to women who not only care for themselves, but pointedly do so without reliance on others. edward is disturbing when he isnt stiff and boring. i dont care HOW you try and explain it--two wrongs dont make a right. bella's mental instability doesnt vouch for his.

well, at least my mother and i got a good laugh out of it. even if we had to stop nearly every other sentence to point it out to each other and do so. it was good quality time, and now she can confidently say that she wouldnt catch me dead [ or undead for that matter ] in that kind of a relationship! (:

[RussaNodrey]

I read Twilight. It took me two weeks to get through a book that I should've read in three days tops because it was so aweful I didn't want to read anymore. The characters are a fail. The writing is a fail. The plot is a fail. Everything about the book is a fail. And the movie, don't even get me started. I will never watch it.

[Zuke]

at first I kinda liked the books, I get to read all 4 of them, after Ive read Interview with the vampire, wich by the way I loved it, the book is ok, I mainly liked it because it was funny at times, but I do agree with all of you and all thats been said, I even liked the movie, but still, not my cup of tea, I rather have Anne Rice, Darren Shan or John Ajvide for vampire books, what it pisses me off about Twilight is its fans, especially the fangirls!, they dont care about the plot, the chararcters feeling, or anything, they just stay drooling over Edward Cullen, and thats it, is all that they ever do!, they dont even care about the book, I was really anoyed when we wached the film cause everyone was screaming in each scene where Pattinson appeared....

something else, I think that the main reason why somany people likes this series is because is a really commercial plot/formula: plain AVERAGE girl with no backround or anything gets the hottest guy in school, who happends to be a vampire, is going to be a hit cause thats something that most girls can relate to, cause they all want to be Bella, so they get Edward, no wonder why theres no team Bella...

[VoiceIHear]

It was alright. The books were far better though.

Although i never got the big deal about rob pattinson. I didn't think he was that hot....

[WannabeSith]

I'm going to compare Twilight to the myriad of hack & slash action movies out there- it's mindless entertainment. I enjoyed reading it (did not care for Breaking Dawn at all), but will not pretend that it is anything like a great literary work. Just fluff, like going to the movies to watch things explode for a couple of hours.

[NightmareCandle]

The books are fine...I guess.
The movie, as I will always say, is the biggest rip-off in history.
It's too over dramatic...

[Arisuka]

The books are fine...I guess.
The movie, as I will always say, is the biggest rip-off in history.
It's too over dramatic...

Yeah, Bella's actor is incredibly awkward to watch!

And the plot of the books just spins in every direction in half-way and kinda unravels and goes too weird :D

[Zuke]

I'm amused by the fact that the movie got like 11 teen choice awards, including best drama...., yeah, best drama, with their ending of " and they lived forever, happily ever after....

[TRIriana]

I'm amused by the fact that the movie got like 11 teen choice awards, including best drama...., yeah, best drama, with their ending of " and they lived forever, happily ever after....

But then it IS the Teen Choice Awards, :lol:.

[Malison]

I like Twilight.... Don't hit me D:
I like the characters a lot and if she had spent a little more time creating personalities for them I'd be a crazed fan. Well... more so than I am now. I don't force people to like it but I do have a twilight t-shirt and hoodie and 2 posters. Prefer the apparel though because I don't think the movie was that good. Second one seems to be brighter and will probably turn out better because they have money now xD

I don't like how everyone is just in love with Edward. I wish he had a flaw, but I really do like him and I do get fangirly over the series a bit xP

Sue me, I enjoy these books but they could've been better written. If JK Rowling had written them (because I know she's a good writer) they would've been epic, but they're not and I'm pleased with them. I can't remember if I ever warmed to Bella... She seems like a bit of a (cough cough big) Mary Sue. I like Edward though. He just needs some flaws! But maybe being slightly too much in love with her is a flaw? :P

[willwrightfan]

I know I used to worship the ground Stephenie Meyer walked on. Now, not so much. I still have my posters and everything, and I kind of like the books, but...*shrugs* I'm not that into it any more. I've come to think that Breaking Dawn is basically like a fan fiction gone horribly wrong. I prefer real vampires now. *cough*Lestatishot*cough*

[angelsavoir]

Ive read all the Twilight books. I enjoyed Twilight but really didnt like the others. Breaking Dawn was the worst of the bunch I think. Ive tried to reread twilight and couldnt get past the first chapter... So i guess I dont like it to much anymore. Lol

My sister loves the books . Im more of a Harry Potter person tho!

[QDog]

I know has been dead for days, but I wanted to add my 5 cents to it anyway.

First of all, I have read the whole series, so I know what I'm talking about. Twilight, the first book, was pretty good and really got me hooked, but the rest of them are about as bad as a book can be. I kept reading them because I was hoping they would get better, and I wanted to know how it all ended. But Bella is whiny and you end up hating her. Edward is one dimensional and flat, sometimes he looked more like a brainless zombie (always thinking about Bella and only about her) than a vampire.
I especially dislike Breaking Dawn, the last book of the series. I don't know how Meyer managed to write such a freaking long book and still it seemed so rushed, just to bring a nice happy ending.

Besides, the book conveys a message that I don't like or share, most of the time it's sexist (woman, Bella, who considers herself worthless and her life not worth living if she's not being admired by a man; plus Edward is contolling and sometimes plain stalkery-creepy) and promotes the "erotics of abstinence" and "True Love Waits".

So, to sum up: Twiligh bad. Harry Potter good. And if you like vampires just go read Anne Rice's Vampire Chronicles :P

[SuicidiaParasidia]

the only way a vampire sparkles in the sun is if his skin is beginning to be seared off the rest of his body. >_>
and i dont see billows of smoke trailing edward, so, FAKE. FAKE FAKE FAKE. plastic fangs dont make a vampire, loverboy!

*cough*

sorry, just sick of the whole vampire ripoff. its not even a GOOD ripoff. its cheesy. ):

[Rikachu]

Okay, seriously, you can't compare them to "Real" Vampires, because "Real" Vampires were made up as well.

IF Vampires are real, how do we know they don't sparkle, hmm? The whole "They're not real! They don't burn! Twilight sucks becuase they're not real vampires!" thing is a hunk of bologna.

Sorry for the rant, but it had to be said.

Anyways, back on topic. I've only read Twilight and New Moon, but I'm enjoying it so far. Yeah, Edward is a sissy stalker vampire.

[singing_Noel]

Regardless RiBlan of your very good point, Vampires were originally based off of some truths, and some myths, so what does that equal?

Vampires could very well be considered as legends, like in the sense of King Arthur, and Hercules. Very obvious they may have never existed, but evidence and some good old fashioned writing has given it reason enough to be believable.

Le Morte de Arthur is probably the best depiction of King Arthur and his tales. Like how Bram Stroker's Dracula is still by far the best envisioning I've personally ever read when it comes to depicting the many styles, habits, lifestyles, origins, and soul behind Vampires.

Twilight...book and movies, are a horrible depiction of Vampires, extremely horrible...kinda like how the films, Arthur...The Last Legion, and others that will not be mentioned, totally made me sick. Besides the Holy Grail, that is...still the best movie ever. 'Cause it's funny and purposefully makes fun of King Arthur and his men.

Now if Twilight was intended to be a spoof of Vampires, I probably actually would of liked it more, but it wasn't...sadly. >.> And why is that? If you're totally gonna bastardize the ideal of the Vampire, what makes them...well, them, why take it seriously? So I laughed throughout all of Twilight, when it wasn't even intended. WTH's up with that?

How disappointing...

I like when people try to be edgy, or try to re-envision things, so long as it's well...GOOD.

I have nothing against Edward, or the majority of the characters personally, but they could of been human and it would of still worked out..they could of been robots even, and it still would of worked out. They could of even been ZOMBIES ( seeing as they had pretty crappy dialogue as it was ) and it would of worked out, so what's the point of making them Vampires...or Werewolves, if there's no real point behind it in the first place? So further more, why bother at all?

Anyway...the one thing that peeved me the most about the book and movie, was the characters, character archs, and character development.

There were none...heheh, which is like writing 101, neh?

The characters were blah, and at times laughable. Why make him a Vampire, if he has no weaknesses? Seriously? His only weakness is his feelings...you kidding? Oh yeah, Bella, I luv ya, but I would really like to avoid accidentally having you for dinner one day...so yeah, later...*tosses long bangs*

Ummm...wow, that was the shortest story ever. Hmmm...could of done it justice too, if he just said...NO, I will not make a fool of my character and do exactly what I shouldn't do. Ya know?

Now as for Bella, she's my biggest problem. Since when was it okay for characters like her to be considered as role models? Okay...seriously, if I was in her position, I'd probably make an idiot of myself on the first date and pee my pants as I slowly manuever into the fetal position, sorry...but Vampires scare me, why do you think they have to use mystical dark powers to seduce people into their clutches? o.O

Sorry, but she'd have to be less of a...weenie, whiny, stale faced, porcelain, can't act for crap doll to hang with a Vamp gang, then again...they weren't really Vampires, were they? ;)

Said and done! :}

[Mazzi4]

I'm gonna be honest...I've never read the books. Not one. I read the prologue bit, with Bella whining about dying and I gave up shortly after that. So I can't really comment on what happens in there, or the books afterwards.

After my nieces spent a good few months going "TWILIGHTTWILIGHTTWILIGHTILOVEEDWARD!!" in my face, I decided to give it a go. In my opinion, it wasn't all that. I really could not understand how he could be so in love with her after, like, a week or so. My nieces told me it was because she "smelt nice" (???) which made no sense to me whatsoever.
I didn't like Bella from the word go. She just seemed so miserable to me and, as someone else said, flat.

[Bellasaurus]

I've read all four books & the unpublished few chapters of Edward's point of view and I must admit, I absolutely love them. They are such utter trash it's fabulous. Great for escapism reading. I was pissing myself laughing all the way through Breaking Dawn with it's desperate attempts to keep the reader interested in what was going to happen next. I loved the ridiculous new take on the vampire myth... Sparkly skin? Excellent. Just so hilarious. If you take the series as trash escapism, you'll enjoy it.

Oh, and that link is absolutely hilarious Kissamies, excellent find :up:

[el_flel]

^ I totally agree with Bellasaurus. Such an easy read and so OTT. I'm almost done with Eclipse and there have been moments where it's supposed to be serious and I'm either cringing or laughing or both! I find myself talking about how it's so silly but yet I can't stop reading!

New Moon was my favourite so far, mainly because Edward wasn't in it and he irritates me. I did like Jacob but he turned weird and keeps forcing himself on Bella who also annoys me, I really wish she'd have a happy thought that didn't revolve around Edward.

[1ove]

The books are fine...I guess.
The movie, as I will always say, is the biggest rip-off in history.
It's too over dramatic...

It's always that way...

I'm probably the only girl I know who hasn't fallen into this trap, and I don't plan to.

[SuicidiaParasidia]

Okay, seriously, you can't compare them to "Real" Vampires, because "Real" Vampires were made up as well.

IF Vampires are real, how do we know they don't sparkle, hmm? The whole "They're not real! They don't burn! Twilight sucks becuase they're not real vampires!" thing is a hunk of bologna.

Sorry for the rant, but it had to be said.

Anyways, back on topic. I've only read Twilight and New Moon, but I'm enjoying it so far. Yeah, Edward is a sissy stalker vampire.

true, they are not real, but there are criteria that match the myth.
for example, would you call a horse without a horn a unicorn? or maybe an elf with round ears, an elf?

when i think " vampire " i do not think " sparkle ".

had to be said. (;

twilights vampires dont even DRINK BLOOD.
another count against the criteria.

[singing_Noel]

Suicidia: Here, here! Seriously...if they aren't drinking blood, how are they still...well walking? o_O

[Liisiko]

Twilight is really, really bad. And I have read each book at least 3 times. I bolth love and hate the books. The movie was ok but not good. Edward is a stalker creep and I don't see why everyone is so in love with him.

[meggie272]

I liked Twilight the first time I read them. Now they drive me crazy.

Imprinting makes me shiver, it is horrible, and the movie is CRAAAAAAAAAPYYY!!!

[TRIriana]

Suicidia: Here, here! Seriously...if they aren't drinking blood, how are they still...well walking? o_O

They're vegetarian vampires who...eat...deer. Because deer are now...vegetables...with animal...blood?

I think someone didn't think this through for Twilight. ;).

[SuicidiaParasidia]

They're vegetarian vampires who...eat...deer. Because deer are now...vegetables...with animal...blood?

I think someone didn't think this through for Twilight. ;).

i dont think theyre vampires. >_>
they are something that has branched from that good idea, and into Cheap Imitation Land.
vampires with morals? SINCE WHEN? >_>; ruins the whole predator theme.

but your comment reminded me of bunnicula. xDDD

[mrnapolean1]

Another twlight?
i haven't even seen the first one yet!

[Zuke]

I have to agree with singing_Noel & Suicidia

the could have been normal humans,

is just not about the skin, fangs and blood,

I believe that one of the things that is atractive about reading about vampires is that pretty much there are no rules or moral code whatsoever,

I mean, they could do ANYTHING, but they choose to live like an average family and go to school for ever..... brrr....

[sammann89]

whether you like twilight or not this site is pretty amusing http://www.mylifeistwilight.com/

[innocenteyes]

I like twilight. I am not saying it is the greatest thing in the world, but I like it for that fact that what I wanted to happen didnt. And I see a lot of flaws with all the characters. Edward has a huge flaw. He is a control freak. It wouldnt let Bella do what she wanted. He told her what she could and could not do. To me, that is a huge flaw. Bella was just naive. She just fell head over heels for edward. Her flaw to me is that she is just clingy. She is a BIG Mary Sue. She takes everything to heart that Edward does and that is just a huge pprobablem for Bella. The one I dont see a problem with is Jacob. What really is the matter with him. He has no flaws to be. A normal teenager with outrageous hormones for the wrong girl. If i wrote the book she would have dumped the vampire and went for the werewolves, at least werewolves seem to have more fun, while Edward just plays the damn piano and reads. No fun there. But that is why I like the books, because it pissed me off when i read them.

[Tawny.]

It is by no means a great work of literature. I only stuck around for Jacob ^_^ He's the most well-written character in the series, and the only one with any development.

I read a lot a lot of Jacob fanfiction. Edward is no bueno to me, and Bella is quite flat. I prefer Leah ^_^

Breaking Dawn was the worst of all four, by far. It was..... Geeze. There's like no words to describe how awful it was.

[VacuumMelon]

I don't like it when people say Twilight was a very poorly written book.
It obviously wasn't, because now it's one of the most popular books in the world.
Stephenie Meyer must be making millions.
And I, on the other hand, don't like it when people say "Twilight" is a very good book. It isn't. And sorry, but popularity is by no means an indication of book's quality.

Things that killed this so-called "saga" for me are the excessive use of purple prose, Bella/Edward's abusive relationship (no, removing your girlfriend's car engine/stalking her before you start dating is NOT cute, it's very creepy), promoting of pedophilia (Jacob/Renesmee), sparkling fang-less vampires (goddammit!), anti-feminist stance, repetitive dialogue (I don't want to read it for thirty times how dangerous it is for B/E to be together), slow-paced plot with some randomly added action at the end of every novel.

I'm waiting eagerly for the craze to die away so that real vampires can come back and claim their rightful throne. :blink:

[RingzTerritory]

I don't like it when people say Twilight was a very poorly written book.
It obviously wasn't, because now it's one of the most popular books in the world.
Stephenie Meyer must be making millions.


And paris hilton is one of the most known names around the world, doesn't make her talented, along with miley cyrus, britney spears, ect. lo :rofl:

Twlight was an afwul series IMO, the author was writing as if she was some pathetic horny teenage girl fawning over a sparkly vampire, which is funny since that's exactly how Bella is, but Bella has no personality at all so everything just comes across as some sick fantasy the author has.

Actual highly respected talented authors that actually have made millions even think twilight was garbage. lol

I honestly can see why dumb teen girls like it but I can't see how they are so dumb they can't even tell bad writing from good writing. :|

Don't even get me started on those movies, lol...

[SuicidiaParasidia]

And I, on the other hand, don't like it when people say "Twilight" is a very good book. It isn't. And sorry, but popularity is by no means an indication of book's quality.

Things that killed this so-called "saga" for me are the excessive use of purple prose, Bella/Edward's abusive relationship (no, removing your girlfriend's car engine/stalking her before you start dating is NOT cute, it's very creepy), promoting of pedophilia (Jacob/Renesmee), sparkling fang-less vampires (goddammit!), anti-feminist stance, repetitive dialogue (I don't want to read it for thirty times how dangerous it is for B/E to be together), slow-paced plot with some randomly added action at the end of every novel.

I'm waiting eagerly for the craze to die away so that real vampires can come back and claim their rightful throne. :blink:

this won my day.


also, as far as greek gods go....


Zeus.


i rest my case.

[Phoeberg]

Twilight has planted a deep resentment of the word 'chagrin' in me forever.

[lg135]

So there is serious talk about splitting the last Twilight movie into 2 films...and I'm a bit confused. Granted, I haven't read BD, but when I ask people to give me a summary, it goes something like Marriage/Honeymoon=>pregnancy=> Birth/Jacob imprinting=>Bella as a Vampire=>'Showdown' with Vulturi.

Am I missing something? I know the book is lengthy, but it doesn't seem like a whole lot actually happens. Maybe someone could tell me exactly where you'd split the story and why? Maybe add some details people aren't telling me that would warrant a need for 2 films instead of one? Or perhaps this is just to milk that cash-cow a little more? ;) Just curious, is all.

[VoiceIHear]

BD, was the longest of them all, but I agree with you I don't really see the point of splitting it in two. And I don't really see where you would split it up, I guess it would be after Edward turns Bella, and they'd leave that as the Cliffhanger and then the next movie would be the 'showdown' with the Volturi.

[Bellasaurus]

I don't know if I'd say BD is the longest.... The copy I have is thicker than the other three, but it also has the most ridiculously large typeface - I think SM was trying to make it look longer that it actually is.

[VacuumMelon]

this won my day.


also, as far as greek gods go....


Zeus.


i rest my case.
Haha, now I can never read Edward Cullen's name again without imagining him like Zeus from Disney's "Hercules".

And as far as splitting BD into two movies goes - if they're really going to do it, they're gonna fail so hard. Honestly, the whole idea of making BD into a movie is giving me creeps. How are they going to depict Jacob/Renesmee's relationship? It quite openly is child grooming and I don't think sane people would be okay with including it. Not to mention the bloody birth scene and scene where Bella is covered with bruises after their intercourse etcetc.

[VoiceIHear]

I don't know if I'd say BD is the longest.... The copy I have is thicker than the other three, but it also has the most ridiculously large typeface - I think SM was trying to make it look longer that it actually is.
Well that's true. As well as it contained a lot of useless information. Particularly in Jacob's part, (or that might just be my hate for Jacob) but I skipped heaps in his part, a lot of the wolf stuff. I really on read what had to do with Bella, I didn't really care about anything else. Which is why I hated New Moon - and the movie was even worse, it was just 2 hours of Jacob. ugh.

And also I think another problem is Renesme, how are they gunna play her part? But I guess, we'll see...

[Brad2006]

the reason if they split BD in two, would be to milk that cash cow(it's the last book after all), but I'm almost certain that BD will have the worst climax ever(that supposed showdown that turns into negotiation), unless they changed the movie to have different ending, like they engaged in a horrible bloody battle where most of them died(seems like HP7 though)

[Bellasaurus]

that supposed showdown that turns into negotiation

That bugged the hell out of me too! Come on! At least reward us for making it through all the trash storylines by giving us a good battle. It was kinda cool the way they manged to wangle their way out of the fight... but really, it would have been better if at least someone had died (I voted for Rosalie - most irritating character ever).

[SuicidiaParasidia]

And also I think another problem is Renesme, how are they gunna play her part? But I guess, we'll see...

i have the perfect actor in mind.

http://citypaper.net/blogs/clog/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/chestburster.jpg

[el_flel]

Renesmee really creeped me out. A baby that can walk and talk = scary. Also highly agree with how disappointing that after pages and pages and pages of drama that there was no fight in the end of BD. Ended a bit too nicey-nicey for me, but then they are aimed at teenagers.

[FreakAboutSims]

Twilight is the ultimate wish fulfillment for sixteen year old girls.

[VoiceIHear]

Correction - Robert Pattinson is the ultimate wish fulfillment for 16 year old girls.

[DarkCougar555]

Through I am not a fan of the series, I feel Twilight should be improved a lot and the storyline should be totally re-written for the better. I'm not quite impressive with that book...

[Drakesecaravdis]

meh I just hate it because its hyped up more than anything/anyone I can remember.

I simply do not like it otherwise because vampires and crap don't appeal to me. it has to have some humor or I don't care. Harry Potter was ok cuz it was at least a little humorous.

[XXDeidaraXX]

I don't mind Twilight. Though I do think it has ruined vampires by making all these middle school fan girls walking around saying the vampires "sparkle" in the sun.

Another thing I really dislike about it is that there is merchandise for it EVERYWHERE. It is quite annoying.

[Miss Foxxy]

Sorry for opening this thread again so long after the discussion stopped, but I have a question. How exactly is Edward & Bella's relationship abusive? A little obsessive, maybe but abusive? That's a strong word.

To answer the question, I think the books are neither perfection or horrible. I admit it isn't the deepest book but I love it because it somehow tugs at my heart (I know I probably sound as soft as a marshmellow. lol) but it's why I can still love it despite all its imperfections (which there are many).

Another thing, I think I've figured out why they love each other so much (I might be wrong). I think they both see themselves incorrectly and see in each other what they wished they were (if that makes any sense. lol).

Lastly, I want to comment on the 'fangirls' so often mentioned in this thread. I think everyone should give them some slack. We were all young once and most of us probably had those crazy infactuations with people we could never attain in real life. So now the tweens/teens of today are having their turn.