What makes a game an RPG?

[slipknot93]

So I've always considered RPG's to be turn based
like final fantasy
recently I've noticed a load of games hanngin around with the RPG Genre
which , are not turn based
like Fallout 3 and oblivion
so what makes a game an RPG?
do you consider these new games to be true RPGs?

I don't find the non turn based games bad but I just find it weird calling them RPGs when they can have completely differnt gameplay to any other Rpg's

[HystericalParoxysm]

Umm... RPG has nothing to do with turn based or not.

RPG means "roleplaying game" - that is, a game where you play a character with a certain personality, history, set of skills, etc., and most RPGs have lots of choices of how the game can go depending on how you choose to play (good or evil, allied with certain factions, making critical choices at different points of the game, etc.). Oblivion is widely considered to not really be much of a roleplaying game as the main quest does not have any major branches based on choices, and it's really more of a shooter/dungeon crawler with very little character development, and though it does have factions, you can choose to ally yourself with one or all of them with no problem, no conflict of interest type situations. Fallout 3 is a bit of a better example as the main quest - and many of the side quests - branch significantly depending on your choices and some avenues are cut off to you if you choose certain actions, while others open up.

A better example than either is Morrowind, which was extremely immersive in terms of story - you couldn't just click past things and just go kill things and still really get it. If you want to play an excellent RPG, get yourself a copy of Morrowind. It's probably the best ever - dated now, but if you want a truly deep story, it's the best.

[Delphy]

I've been playing games since longer than you have even been *alive* slipknot, and I have to wonder what the heck. I agree with HP, in that an RPG has nothing whatsoever to do with turn based specifically.

An RPG can be turn based - or it could not. But look up the definition of RPG. It means Roleplaying Game as HP said. This could take any form from turn based like Baldurs Gate / Neverwinter Nights to real time like Oblivion, Fallout 3 or... wait for it... an MMORPG like World of Warcraft. Thats not turn based yet you... roleplay a character.

May I suggest you, erm, do some research first?

[slipknot93]

broad genre then.
I mean if somone told youa bout a game and said it was a first person shooter, you'd know what to expect, if they said RPG you cna't tell at all

[HystericalParoxysm]

Sure you do. It'll usually have a strong main character, or allow you to create your own. It'll usually have a strong plot and an interesting storyline, and be heavily story-based. Mechanics are not genre. You can have a first person shooter RPG, or turn-based, or adventure, or non-combat, whatever.

[Fantasyrogue]

Usually when someone is talking about a rpg they are specifically talking about a game with stats for your character. Almost any game that has stats for strength, stamina, intelligence, etc of some sort that you can manipulate through leveling up and/or equipment falls in the rpg genre. Most are also categorized, as HP said, through having a strong plot and be focused more on the story (and are often long games) but this is not always the case (though then you get into subgenres).

These days there's a lot more genre crossover (most first person shooters these days aren't as simple only shooter-like as the old ones either, many cross-over into action or platform or something of the sort).

[slipknot93]

but the thing is turn based games have no other genre for them, but a game like fallout 3 can be called first person shooter also, but people often call it- and other games like it just RPG which causes confusion.

I agree about stats though, I can't think of one RPg of any type that doesn't have levelling up or gaining experince for new skills

[Fantasyrogue]

Yes they do. There are turn-based strategy games, for example.

[coltraz]

Fallout 3 isn't an FPS, trust me.

[slipknot93]

Fallout 3 isn't an FPS, trust me.

I would call it more of a first person adventure

[coltraz]

What about a FPRPG? :lol:

[ElPresidente]

The ultra conservative response is that an RPG is a game where you drive the story through the development of your character. That is the game pays attention to the way you react to what is happening around your character and responds in kind.

In this regard if you head places like RPG Codex you will find most people will give the nod to Fallouts 1 & 2 (not Fallout 3!) as the purest examples of RPG design. Personally I give the nod to Arcanum no matter what HP says. ;)

Stats do not make an RPG, if they did then Championship Manager would be one of the best in the world.

By this definition Final Fantasy is not an RPG. You are a passive player in the story's development.

However the problem with words is that no matter what their origins their final meaning is that which is most commonly ascribed to them. Unfortunately for the purists out there this means that people do refer to games like Final Fantasy as RPGs despite the fact they are significantly closer in design to adventure games.

For reasons of avoiding genre confusion I will only ever refer to them as JRPGs to keep them distinct from real RPGs.

I would also argue that in the MMO space there are very few MMORPGs. Reason being that you have no impact on the world around you. You go kill Onyxia in WoW and she will be back, exactly as before, for the next band of questers to kill her.

EVE is one of the best examples of an MMO that actually allows for real role playing.

[slipknot93]

Thats's new to me, I've only discovered RPG's that arent anything like final fantasy since I got my 360...

[ElPresidente]

The PC has been the common home of what I call true RPGs since they started rearing their head. If you like that style go check out games like Fallout 1 & 2, Arcanum, Ultima, Baldur's Gate 1 & 2, Planescape: Torment... all a good start.

[HystericalParoxysm]

Hey, I don't think I've ever said Arcanum wasn't an RPG, just that I didn't enjoy it. I wanted to, really! It was just so clunky!

[ElPresidente]

Ack, that came out wrong. I was just referencing your dislike, I never thought you didn't consider it an RPG.

[Mollypog]

The PC has been the common home of what I call true RPGs since they started rearing their head. If you like that style go check out games like Fallout 1 & 2, Arcanum, Ultima, Baldur's Gate 1 & 2, Planescape: Torment... all a good start.

I'd add to that list the third Baldur's Gate game (can't remember its full title right now), Icewind Dale and its sequel. You get to make six characters all your own instead of just one. Icewind Dale and Icewind Dale II were some of the best computer adaptations of the AD&D system I've ever played, but don't expect an easy win. They're pretty difficult dungeon crawls, particularly for players who don't fully understand how to build a balanced party.

As someone else mentioned, there are many strategy games that are also turn based, but not RPG's. How about chess?

[ElPresidente]

There was no third Baldur's Gate game unless you mean Dark Alliance which was an arcade dungeon crawler.

The Baldur's Gate series:

Baldur's Gate
Baldur's Gate: Tales of the Sword Coast
Baldur's Gate 2: Shadows of Amn
Baldur's Gate 2: Throne of Bhaal

[slipknot93]

I've played dark alliance... it's not a dungeon crawler ... by my definition and there's nothing arcade about it...
I wanna play the old fallouts and maybe baldurs gate but I dunno if they are vista compatible, anyone know?

[Mollypog]

There was no third Baldur's Gate game unless you mean Dark Alliance which was an arcade dungeon crawler.

The Baldur's Gate series:

Baldur's Gate
Baldur's Gate: Tales of the Sword Coast
Baldur's Gate 2: Shadows of Amn
Baldur's Gate 2: Throne of Bhaal

Ah, right. What threw me off was that Throne of Bhaal was an expansion pack. It was rich enough in story and development that I thought of it as a third installment. It has been several years since I played them, so the names escaped me. Thanks. All this talking about them makes me want to dig them out and play them again.

EDIT: Slipknot, I looked it up, and found this quote regarding Baldur's Gate and Vista. "Vista has compatiblity modes for Windows 95 and newer . You could try that. Just right click the shortcut -> Properties -> Compatiblity. And the necessary options should be there."

Apparently, trying to run it straight from disk on Vista doesn't work without doing that. I haven't personally tried. It's a very good game and worth the effort.

I found that at http://my.opera.com/techie-chat/forums/topic.dml?id=197562 if you want to read the whole thread. Hope that helps.

[LoKain]

Ooooh RPGs lately Ive played but one... still playing, still hard Vakyria Chronicles, but I pride myself as being a fan of western RPGs story telling where choices that has impact storywise I could name a few mostly bioware games though and few others....

2 categories Japanese RPGs and Western RPGs hehehehe

give Mass Effect a try Slipknot to know what I'm saying :-D

and and Arcanum isnt clunky! :-|

[Axe Gaijin]

I've played dark alliance... it's not a dungeon crawler ... by my definition and there's nothing arcade about it...
I wanna play the old fallouts and maybe baldurs gate but I dunno if they are vista compatible, anyone know?


Dark Alliance is about as Arcady as RPGs come, the typical gerne the game would be classed in would be Hack & Slash, where the emphasis of the game lies heavely on action and less on story telling or developing your character.

The Diablo series would likely be the most well known in that gerne.

I would also argue that in the MMO space there are very few MMORPGs. Reason being that you have no impact on the world around you. You go kill Onyxia in WoW and she will be back, exactly as before, for the next band of questers to kill her.

That's why Role Players in WoW generaly make their own stories and have other people play an active part in them.
I've organised several non-scripted open Roleplaying events for my guild and they're a lot of fun to do.

[ElPresidente]

Which is why I recommend EVE for the people who really love roleplaying as the universe expressly caters for that (all the interesting stuff in EVE happens between players and the whole universe can be affected by the actions of a few).