People who hate kids

[jooxis]

I know quite a few people (both male and female) who have some sort of aversion towards babies and small children. I've noticed that this isn't all that uncommon.

These same people go crazy over puppies and kittens yet find infants of their own species disgusting. Does anyone else find that strange and counter-intuitive? When you think about it, in a biological way, it doesn't seem to make sense.

And so I've actually noticed that a LOT of people find baby animals cuter and more "precious" than baby humans. I have to admit I'm in this group as well (although I certainly don't hate baby humans, I find them cute as well). People are just much more likely to squeal with glee at an adorable puppy than at a toddler.

So, I guess those are a few questions then. Do you find this strange and why do you think this is? Could it be a sign of immaturity?

[Sparklycookie]

Human babies are only so cute and cuddly and adorable as long as you don't have to change their nappies!

At least kittens are cleaner and don't play in their own poop.

[Ciel Noir]

Personally I agree that it's strange some people coo over kittens and puppies and then say babies are gross. Maybe it's because puppies and kittens are (relatively) easy to care for whereas when most people think 'baby' they think dirty nappies, crying, etc. Perhaps it's only when you have your own bundle of joy that this changes?

[pegasaus]

I will be honest: I HATE CHILDREN & KIDS!!!
I don't know exactly why, but I just don't feel comfortable when they are around me. And many people wondered 'How will you become a father if you hate them?'. Well I don't plan to have one girl through entire life (marriage), so naturally I don't plan to have kids. I want to be free in love way and charm girls through my entire life and die like that.

On the other side, I can't stand baby's crying and how they look, running and jumping children, all in all I hate all who are under 10-11.

However, I more like animals than humans, and I don't have anything against puppies/kittens/birdies... I like them the same as big animals, and that's VERY MUCH!

[animenut31]

i hate kids too. they bitch and moan if they dont get their way. ive had more than one toddler point me out before. as for elementary school kids they make fun of anyone they cant accept. as for the animals, i love them. but i hate kids because they always want more.

[jooxis]

But... that's what I want to understand better! People who hate babies and love baby animals give the reasoning "babies are loud and smelly!"... but animals and their offspring are ALSO loud and smelly. Puppies and kittens can cry a lot (I've lost sleep numerous times listening to puppies whine ALL night), most animals smell relatively bad, etc... it's not something that's unique to young humans.

Yet for some reason people don't find loudness and smellyness annoying if it's a baby animal. Which doesn't make sense, that you forgive other species for the same traits that you hate your own species' infants for.

[HystericalParoxysm]

The cry of a human infant is made so that you cannot ignore it. No matter how hard you try, it will still stab you in the brain until you find a way to shut the kid up. You can ignore a kitten mewing at you - even a puppy whining. Good luck trying to ignore a baby screaming in the same room.

They are a LOT louder, a lot smellier, and a hell of a lot more trouble than any animal. They take ages to mature (even a 3 month old kitten or puppy can go where you want them to - you have to keep changing diapers till they're 2 or more for humans), and a 6 month old cat can communicate to you their needs a hell of a lot better than a 6 month old child. And human babies have thumbs - which means from the moment they can get around on their own, they're into -everything-, and at least as destructive as a cat or dog, if not more so. Cats and dogs usually don't decorate your expensive new LCD tv with crayon.

Puppies and kittens are a lot easier - and a lot more trainable from an early age (yes, even cats) than humans. They also maintain a look which we perceive as "cuteness" (large eye-to-head ratio, large head-to-body ratio) for longer, proportionally, and they're playful right away. And usually they don't have temper tantrums.

Nobody is obligated to like children. Or animals. I think saying it's a sign of immaturity is just your personal bias, and rather closed-minded. People have personal likes and dislikes and preferences - there are plenty of intelligent, mature, adult professionals who simply don't want to have kids because they don't like them, have no use for them, and don't see the point - they may have pets instead, but, then, you can leave your 1 year old dog or cat alone for the day when you go to work - can't really do that with a baby. Well. You can, but it's frowned upon. :P

It took a long time for my desire for kids to kick in - mostly it was that I hadn't been around any -good- kids. Then I got to spend a summer with my sister's twin 2 year olds and I realized that yeah, they're horribly annoying, but they're also really cool, and come up with some hilarious and imaginative stuff. And the interaction you can have with a child is amazing - explaining to them about the world, filling their heads with ideas and nonsense... doesn't stop me from sometimes wishing I could trade my kid for a puppy, but really... trying to compare human children and animal children is just silly. They're both immature examples of their own -wildly different- species. The only real similarity is their youth and "cuteness".

[el_flel]

I don't really like children and babies, I certainly don't hate them and can admit that they can be cute sometimes, but ultimately they're just not for me. Dogs on the other hand, I love. They're so lovely and friendly and happy all the time. A friend of mine had a baby at about the same time another friend bought a puppy. I cooed waaay more over the puppy than the baby.

I don't see anything wrong with people preferring pets over babies - they're a hell of a lot easier, as HP said - but when people put the needs of their animal above the needs of other humans, that's when I would start to worry.

[sandymdh]

I remember reading somewhere that for 6 months babies give off a type of pheramone in their smell to 'help' parents love them! (I am a Mum of 4 so don't really need to give my opinion lol)

[FranH]

I don't "hate" children. I dislike with a passion those who are so unruly and misbehaved that they cannot shut up for one instant-screaming, crying, acting out, in specific. Their parents don't help to stop them, just give them their lead, and it's off to the races.
I think a lot of the dislike of small children comes from their tendency to do exactly as they like at the top of their lungs, and because of that, the ears of the people hearing it get assaulted every single second. It hurts after a while-then it enrages you to the point where you would glady throw the baby and the parents out of the area without a second thought.
It is not a sign of immaturity to know what you don't like. It's actually the opposite because you know your limits and what you'll tolerate. Kids are one of the limits for me.
Never had 'em, never really wanted to. Can't say I'm missed out on a lot. Over the age limit for having them, so that's a moot argument anyway.

[Undercovers_Agent]

I don't mind kids at all, kids will be kids, and at one point in your life you bitched and moaned because you didn't get it your way, but I still act like I'm a child, cause that's where it's at you know?

[LifesLover]

I can't say I hate kids. My sister has a daughter who's 6, a son who's nearly 2, and a third on the way. I've been in those kids' lives nearly every day since the day they were born and I will be that way with the baby on the way. I love my niece and nephew. They are wonderful children, with wonderful imaginations, laughter that fills me up with warm fuzzies and kisses that are drooly and slobbery but are filled with love.

At the same time, however, they're the demon spawn of hell. The girl has ADHD and her mouth and her body is constantly running at 120 mph and that boy gets his hands on everything, puts everything in his mouth, throws your CELL PHONE IN THE TRASH, inks all over the walls and on the windowsills and does it all with a devious little smile on his face because he knows exactly what he's doing and he knows it's wrong.

I can't hate kids because I've been around them every day for the last six years of my life. But because I've been around them, because I've babysat them nearly everyday, because I know exactly how hard it is to take care of them, I know that I'm not ready for kids and that I'll probably never be ready.

Sometimes, kids just aren't what people want. It doesn't make them immature, it doesn't make them heartless or cold: they just know what they want and a family isn't necessarily what they want.

And pets are much easier to handle and deal with. Just because we don't want kids doesn't mean we don't squeal over kids. I think my niece and nephew are adorable, beautiful children. But I also squeal over adorable kittens (I don't like dogs). We still have that instinct, but it doesn't mean we want to have kids. Pets are an easier alternative.

[jooxis]

I never said it's the same to hate kids and not want to have kids - those are completely different things.

Also, I can't take seriously the claims that pets are "easier" to care for, my dogs have done so much damage both material and psychological that I don't think any baby can live up to it. Animals can behave badly.

But there it is again. I don't like grumpy people but it would be too much to say that I don't like old people (most of them are grumpy, from my experience, just like most kids are noisy).

I also can't stand it when a kid (or an adult) is being loud in a restaurant or on an airplane or anywhere really. But it's hard to just "hate kids" because some of them are loud.

[Ghanima Atreides]

I admit I get a far stronger "aww" reaction to a puppy or kitten than I do to a baby. If going by that simple reaction alone, I find small animals quite a bit more adorable than small humans. I don't think I can rationalize this reaction - it just is. And no I don't think one can compare caring for an animal with the absolute dedication and self-sacrifice needed to raise a child (at least, properly).

I also am not fond of children - they require an enormous amount of constant care and attention, and a small child throwing a tantrum has a way of draining every bit of my patience very quickly and their high-pitched cries are extremely grating. My boyfriend's sister has a boy of almost 3, who, even though is a very happy and well behaved little boy, still manages to drain my energy whenever I visit for an entire day - and I'm not even the one who has to take care of him constantly. It's just the way children are so very "present" and needy all the time that feels quite overwhelming for me, and this is perhaps a consequence of me not being a parent, but I do not feel particularly warmed by them. This, of course, is part of the reason why I do not intend to become a parent anytime soon.

[LifesLover]

I didn't mean to imply that you did. It's more that I was articulating what I've said many times to people who do tell me that I hate kids and am cold/cruel/heartless simply because I don't want any of my own.

Animals can be a burden, but some people obviously feel that it's not as bad. Have you ever lived with a child? If you haven't, then you can't possibly have any sort of notion of how terrible they can be. Having kids is a job. There are wonderful benefits to having kids, but at the same time, there are cons, so if you don't want to deal with the cons, and don't care much for the benefits, then it would be best for you to not have kids. There's also a fragility to babies. Some people are simply afraid that they wouldn't be good enough parents: that they'd screw up their kids if given reign over how to care for them.

Yes, dogs and other animals can destroy furniture but they're also there to provide company. I've lived with a cat (again, I don't like dogs), and aside from peeing on everything, she didn't do much damage to anything. Taking care of her was a lot less to handle than taking care of a baby.

I live with my niece and nephew and every day, my energy is drained from simply watching over them. I have to keep a constant eye on my nephew, deal with the perpetual noise of them laughing, crying, arguing, pouting, my niece's ever moving mouth (she plays the Sims and whenever she's on, she'll articulate what she thinks the people are thinking and/or saying and she'll come up with complete stories for them all: she does this for every game she plays or TV show she watches or book she reads), and it's mentally and physically exhausting.

[el_flel]

I don't want kids because I grew up with a brother with ADHD and a sister who came along 18 months later and I saw how incredibly hard that was for both my parents, mum especially because she had to deal with it more. Whilst I am fully aware that not all kids will be like my brother, when that's all you've ever known it's hard to let go of that and see them in a positive light. So, for me, my dislike of kids and not wanting them stems from that.

In all honesty I don't think you can say that owning a pet is harder or equal to raising a child. Animals definitely require much less work and attention and time and money.

I once had someone say it was selfish of people to not want kids. One of the most illogical statements I think I've ever read.

Ghanima Atreides - I friggin LOVE your avatar'

[Rectos Dominos]

I once had someone say it was selfish of people to not want kids. One of the most illogical statements I think I've ever read.

Not to mention one of the stupidest. There are people who want kids because their friends are having them, to trick someone into marriage or paying child support, or because their the latest fashion accessory. Those people are so considerate and unselfish of their own needs.

[jooxis]

In all honesty I don't think you can say that owning a pet is harder or equal to raising a child. Animals definitely require much less work and attention and time and money.


Perhaps not harder but they can certainly do as much if not more damage. At least babies can't climbs shelves or chew through cables.

[HystericalParoxysm]

Also, I can't take seriously the claims that pets are "easier" to care for, my dogs have done so much damage both material and psychological that I don't think any baby can live up to it. Animals can behave badly.

Yes. Animals can behave badly. I've had -many- pets of all different kinds (except monkeys... always wanted a monkey). I've had a PC ruined by a cat, carpet ruined by ferrets, my current cat refuses to stop peeing in one corner... I've been bitten, scratched, knocked over, even stomped on and dragged by animals..

But they are nothing compared to a child. It's not just a baby - it's an entire human being. By the time most dogs are starting to not do much besides lay on the couch and eat treats anymore, children are just getting warmed up for the real destruction of their teenage years. Even a small child can do an -insane- amount of damage - and it just gets worse as they get older... Way more than a dog - you can put a dog in a crate if it's getting too rambunctious. Unfortunately, can't do that with a human child. Well. You can... but... :P

Dogs also can't speak. They can't ask you why your face looks like that, or why your butt is so much bigger than all their friends' mommies butts, or tell you they hate you. Kids can sometimes find ways to really cut into you deep, without even meaning to - or worse, actually meaning to.

I'm sorry, but to compare the impact a dog can make - their potential physical damage and emotional damage - to that of a human being - albeit a small, inexperienced one, just shows you have no idea what it's like to be a parent. That's okay - maybe one day you will, if that's what you want, but it's nothing like what you think it is now, that much is for sure.

[Purity4]

Perhaps not harder but they can certainly do as much if not more damage. At least babies can't climbs shelves or chew through cables.

Haha! Clearly you've never had children. However, I will say I call anyone under the age of 2 a baby, so this does include the toddler stage by my definition.

[amandatea]

I like animals and kids/babies a lot. One thing that you can't really do with animals which you can with children is reason with them - after a certain age. Yes an animal becomes fairly independant a lot faster but you can't explain to them why they can't climb up onto the counter or scratch the furniture.

I think kids are amazing. Everything has a negative side but also a positive side. Kids are pure and honest and unprejudiced until they are taught in ways which change those things. I teach piano and i have about 60 students a week so i've met all kinds of kids. I must say i am usually pleasantly surprised at the things they say or think of.

[Amtram]

It's easy to dislike kids if the only ones you've been exposed to have been unpleasant to be around. There are plenty of those.

I think the most selfish decision about having them is having them just for the sake of having them. I'd rather that people who didn't want kids, or weren't ready to give up a good part of their lives to raise them, didn't have them.

Back in the day when I actually watched talk shows, it would drive me nuts to see young girls who were pregnant, or wanted to be, being interviewed with their moms. Daughter would cuss at mom and call her names and say how much she hated her, then say that she wanted a baby so she'd have someone who loved her unconditionally. Ironic, much?

I've known people who didn't like kids but changed their minds after being around them and turned out to be fine parents. I've known people who like kids just fine but decided not to have them, and that's good, too. I think the big factor is how well you know kids who aren't horrible. Spend no time with good kids, spend lots of time with awful kids, and it's not a stretch to see why someone wouldn't like kids.

[Mia138]

Well people are always telling me that I have an 'overactive maternal instinct' because I adore babies and children and if I had been able to I would have had a huge family. Unfortunately it was not be be due to complications and I actually gave birth to only three. Sadly the youngest died before she was a year old and I was unable to have anymore. My two kids are the centre of my world, they are what makes my life worth living and the best thing I EVER did was creating them! I think nature makes some people less 'maternal or paternal' to even things out with the ones who have a similar urge as I did and are able to have huge families.
I fed my need by becoming a foster parent and did that for 11 years and in that time I cared for over 50 babies and toddlers - I loved every moment of it and would do it again in an instant if my health permitted it.
I cant walk past a pram in the street without taking a peek inside and cooing over the baby inside. When visiting friends and family with babies I tend to spend more time talking to the babies than the adults. My childbearing days are well over and now I just can't wait to have grandchildren! My daughter loves children as much as I do so we are both hoping she has the large family I never could and I CAN'T WAIT!

[fragglerocks]

My daughter is turning 4 very soon. About a year ago, in one day of horrible tantrums, she caused me about a grand in damages. She pulled the shelving down that holds the dvd player, as well as some glass figurines and such. Luckily I know better and was right there to catch stuff or she could have been damaged as well. Then she almost pulled the other shelving down that holds my mother's ashes and pictures and things. (She'd a been toast if she did that!) Then (and this is mostly my fault for placing a candle in such a stupid place) she knocked the lit candle over that was sitting on top of my computer tower, and that went up in flames.

I think the worst damage my cats ever did was pee on the carpet or a pile of clothes. I can wash that.

I was one of those people that never wanted kids. But life has a funny way of throwing surprises our way, and because of that I'm a mom now. I love my daughter with all of my heart, and can't even remember what life was like before she came along. But I've never had a biological urge to have children, and if that ever happens...I think I'll opt for the puppy. ;)

[grumpy_otter]

But there it is again. I don't like grumpy people but it would be too much to say that I don't like old people (most of them are grumpy, from my experience, just like most kids are noisy).

Hey! Watch it! (jk)

I have SOOO much to say about this topic. My mom raised me to believe that a woman's ultimate purpose in life was to be a mom. It was joy, it was wondrous--yadda yadda. And I bought into it.

After I had my second child (when I had agreed with my partner to have 4), I realized that I don't like kids. I like infants okay--they are cuddly and cute. Once they can walk--ugh. I had neither the patience nor the fascination with them to enjoy raising them.

Having that revelation was SUCH a wakeup call to me--I first went through a whole guilt thing--"I don't like my own kids?" But honestly, no, I didn't. Yeah, they are cute sometimes, but most of the time they are royal pains--demanding, loud, irrational. Ugh--who would want to spend time with people like that?

So I decided that I would hide all my feelings deep inside and be the best mother I could--and apparently, I succeeded. My kids are two well-adjusted young adults who are savvy and clever and dear--even though they were both swamp rats for a while.

My daughter has NEVER been an "Ooooh, a baby!" type. She never liked dolls, and has never ever wanted to babysit. She works at a stable. And I have NEVER told her that she will probably have children--I keep the conversations very non-judgmental.

So I think some people are great for kids, and others not so much. What I wish is that cultures didn't keep perpetuating the stereotype that "Everyone should want children." Because what can then happen is neglect and abuse.

Okay--I'm done. Maybe.

EDIT: all the above doesn't mean I don't love my kids--they are part of my (for lack of a better word) soul.

[ninotchka]

I admit I get a far stronger "aww" reaction to a puppy or kitten than I do to a baby. If going by that simple reaction alone, I find small animals quite a bit more adorable than small humans. I don't think I can rationalize this reaction - it just is. And no I don't think one can compare caring for an animal with the absolute dedication and self-sacrifice needed to raise a child (at least, properly).

I also am not fond of children - they require an enormous amount of constant care and attention, and a small child throwing a tantrum has a way of draining every bit of my patience very quickly and their high-pitched cries are extremely grating. My boyfriend's sister has a boy of almost 3, who, even though is a very happy and well behaved little boy, still manages to drain my energy whenever I visit for an entire day - and I'm not even the one who has to take care of him constantly. It's just the way children are so very "present" and needy all the time that feels quite overwhelming for me, and this is perhaps a consequence of me not being a parent, but I do not feel particularly warmed by them. This, of course, is part of the reason why I do not intend to become a parent anytime soon.

This is what I would have liked to have said, but you did it so incredibly perfectly, Ghanima :) :up:

[Lobelia Overhill]

I don't like, or want to have, children. I prefer animals. I don't consider that to be immature, far from it, I came to the conclusion that I was only intending to get married and have kids because that's what was expected of me, not because it was something I wanted to do. I know several people who did the marriage/kids thing and now regret it, or wish they'd waited a few more years before they did...

[nea200pl]

I admit I get a far stronger "aww" reaction to a puppy or kitten than I do to a baby. If going by that simple reaction alone, I find small animals quite a bit more adorable than small humans. I don't think I can rationalize this reaction - it just is. And no I don't think one can compare caring for an animal with the absolute dedication and self-sacrifice needed to raise a child (at least, properly).

I also am not fond of children - they require an enormous amount of constant care and attention, and a small child throwing a tantrum has a way of draining every bit of my patience very quickly and their high-pitched cries are extremely grating...

Thank you Ghanima, you capture everything I wanted to say. I can't see myself being a parent in the near or far future, my husband feels the same way. And I'm totally cool with that.
I prefer animals.

[Greenlea]

I can understand everyone's points of view on this. Some people just don't want to have kids but there are some people who say some real extreme things out there. I had ran across a forum or something where they were discussing pregnancy and the like and some were just spouting out all kinds of stuff saying terrible things about babies and children. Saying they were all just ungrateful leeches and I don't even remember what all. It seems that some of them had forgotten they were children at one point in time.

I have a 7 year old daughter. Her father and I are divorced and he recently remarried. My daughter is happier living with them full time but she does come to stay with me and my boyfriend on weekends frequently. And when school is in I see her every morning cause I live very close to her school and her father or step mother drops her off early as they go to work cause they have to be at work earlier than I do. I love her to pieces and she says some of the funniest things. It can be quite hilarious at times.

Beyond that I'd been indecisive on whether I wanted more children. I finally took the viewpoint I'd be fine either way.

With that being said my boyfriend has said the thought of us having a child has crossed his mind several times but right now at the present time isn't the right time for it. He has no children of his own but he likes kids. He's wonderful with my daughter. He was almost a father but his last ex wife had an abortion without his consent. I know that had to hurt him deeply.

[el_flel]

grumpy_otter - That's really interesting you saying that about how you felt after having kids, because I think my mum was probably in a similar situation to you. She had never planned on children but after being married a few years she changed her mind and had three of us. My mum is a great mum and we've all turned out really well - even my crazy brother - but I'm sure there were times when she wished she didn't have us!

Like you, my mum has never assumed that I'll have kids which is so refreshing, and even when I say about not wanting them I don't get the "oh when you meet the right person you'll change your mind" crap. I know many women who do have that assumption placed on them and whilst that wouldn't make me change my mind (because I am a stubborn bitch!), on other women it might make them decide to do something that they didn't necessarily want to do.

[grumpy_otter]

I'm sure glad I have them now, but when I was younger, NOT having kids wasn't even presented as an option. I am so glad that things are changing in the western world, but "When are you going to have kids?" is still a VERY common question where I come from.

I think one problem with the current setup is that biologically, our bodies are designed to want to reproduce--but socially it has become harder and harder to care for children. (This is one of the reasons I am in favor of group marriage--sharing the tasks of child rearing goes back to the days when the whole village would help care for the kids)

[HarlequinnRomance]

I'm still fairly young so I really am on the fence about it. My mom is a teacher at the highschool I just graduated from and said a few times, "I'm just glad you made it outta highschool without getting pregnant." Which is saying something more about the girls around me rather than my character. I think babies,when they first come outta the womb and for a few days on,look like aliens and not right. I always thought that I like babies up until they get free will and start to disobey. But I've never even held a baby,there haven't been any in my family.I think most people will be the person who loves a child if they can give it back and it's not their's,which makes sense. One of the things I'm really afraid of if I have a kid is it not being raised the way I'd like.

I'd raise it as best I could,but children make their own decisions and there's not much you can do about them later on in their life. I'm terribly afraid my child will go do drugs or drink or anything terrible. I got through highschool not doing anything illegal and not really even getting trouble in school...I did some crazy stuff,but it was bending the rules,sometimes breaking,but I was by no means a bad kid. I'd really want my child to end up that way and I'm scared of taking the chance that it might not happen.

[Clashfan]

I find "hate" to be a bit of a strong word in this discussion, I don't "hate" children but I certainly don't like them very much and have no desire to be around them. Trying to explain why baby animals are cuter or more appealing than baby humans to some individuals is kind of impossible. I don't know why I find dark hair, light colored eyes and pale skin more attractive in human males than blond hair, dark eyes and dark skin it's just the way I'm wired.

I played with stuffed animals and truly hated dolls (they scared me) as a child. I only babysat a handful of times as a teen for two different mothers both situations my parents arranged. I quickly realized I would rather shovel animal manure and do hard labor rather than repeat the experience.

I am the youngest in a large family and my siblings are all much older than than me so I was an Aunt by the time I was six so it's not for lack of experience that makes me feel this way. When I was 14 my older sister had the first of her 8 children (yes she is quite insane) the baby was 3 months premature and by the time she was able to come home from the hospital my sister was pregnant again. There were complications and she was very ill so I moved in with her and basically raised my niece to about the age of 6. All of which is to say although I have never desired my own children I have hands on personal experience in child rearing.

Having children is a lifetime commitment and an enormous responsibility, it is ludicrous to even suggest that raising any type of animal is similar. My biggest headaches with my current cat is keeping him from eating any type of plastic he finds, his obsession with chewing electric cords and flushing the toilet for fun (his favorite past time if you forget to close the bathroom door). I do not have to worry about instilling good values in him or sending him to college or if he is hanging out with the right crowd and the million and one other things parents have to worry about.

As to why I'm guaranteed to make a fool of myself when faced with baby animals (I can't limit this to just puppies or kittens I once climbed a fence in Ireland to pet a baby lamb) yet be completely non-pulsed by a human baby I can't say and I'm pretty sure no one else can either.

[longears15]

I think hate is too strong a word, but I certainly have a deep aversion to babies and small children. Some of it I think relates to my depression and also a sensitiv to noise, but I've been driven to tears more than once because of a sheer inability to cope with the noise they make. I'll come back and write more on this later - I've been awake for about 40 hours straight now and think I'm in need of another attempt at sleep.

[Greenlea]

Yeah animals and babies are two totally different things. And I forget who it was said something about their animal not playing in their own poop...well let me tell you about our cat...
Yes...she plays with her own poop. At first I thought she was just knocking a little piece out on the floor out of the litter box but my boyfriend saw her apparently reach in and bat one out the other day. She just bats it all around the floor until you catch her. He wadded up a piece of paper to try to deter her from it which works some of the time. She hits it around the floor like a hockey puck or something and once she gets down the hallway with it she picks it up in her mouth (looks like a dog I swear) and carries it back to the living room.

[Undercovers_Agent]

There were complications and she was very ill so I moved in with her and basically raised my niece to about the age of 6.

My sister and I had to help my mom look after the twins until I left home and they were more mature, it wasn't so bad. It may just be your personal experiance.

[fakepeeps7]

I hate their parents, usually. Or, rather, their DNA donors. People who don't teach their kids anything can't really be called "parents", IMO.

[lethifold]

I don't like children. At all. They're smelly and sticky, and I've done work experience at a primary school so I'm not just going off what I've seen on the street. In the space of five minutes when I was working with the kids in Kindergarten, a kid sneezed in my hair, one managed to start jumping on a table until it broke, another drew all over my jacket, and one had a blood nose and it was everywhere. The actual teacher just stood back and laughed at my lack of ability to cope with snot/blood/crayon/broken tables. I just don't like 'em. Whenever I hold a baby it starts screaming, and I want nothing more than to dump it and run. My maternal instinct is the size of a peanut. A really, really small peanut.

On the other hand, I love cats. My cat (3 y.o.) at the moment is like a baby to me. She follows me everywhere and is spoilt rotten. At the same time, in the past week, I've had to deal with her peeing herself on 3 separate occasions, scratching the hell out of my hand and a nice chair in the lounge room and nearly running through a screen door because she was chasing something that wasn't even there. She causes a fair amount of damage, but I still think the time I spend with her when she isn't being destructive is much more enjoyable than spending time with a behaving child.

Kids require constant attention. If you look away for a moment they can have gotten into something they shouldn't have, fallen and injured themselves or broken something precious. Animals on the other hand (or at least cats...my cat, actually) can more often than not be left alone and all they'll do is lie in the sun. People who say their pets do more damage than a child can need to train their pets, just like you teach your children. If you aren't willing to apply yourself fully to raising your child and give them all the attention you need, then don't become a parent.

At this point in my life, I don't see myself becoming a parent in the future, but that might change. I'm more focused in getting the career I want and working than mothering, but who knows what will happen?

[Drakesecaravdis]

The cry of a human infant is made so that you cannot ignore it. No matter how hard you try, it will still stab you in the brain until you find a way to shut the kid up. You can ignore a kitten mewing at you - even a puppy whining. Good luck trying to ignore a baby screaming in the same room.

They are a LOT louder, a lot smellier, and a hell of a lot more trouble than any animal. They take ages to mature (even a 3 month old kitten or puppy can go where you want them to - you have to keep changing diapers till they're 2 or more for humans), and a 6 month old cat can communicate to you their needs a hell of a lot better than a 6 month old child. And human babies have thumbs - which means from the moment they can get around on their own, they're into -everything-, and at least as destructive as a cat or dog, if not more so. Cats and dogs usually don't decorate your expensive new LCD tv with crayon.

Puppies and kittens are a lot easier - and a lot more trainable from an early age (yes, even cats) than humans. They also maintain a look which we perceive as "cuteness" (large eye-to-head ratio, large head-to-body ratio) for longer, proportionally, and they're playful right away. And usually they don't have temper tantrums.

Nobody is obligated to like children. Or animals. I think saying it's a sign of immaturity is just your personal bias, and rather closed-minded. People have personal likes and dislikes and preferences - there are plenty of intelligent, mature, adult professionals who simply don't want to have kids because they don't like them, have no use for them, and don't see the point - they may have pets instead, but, then, you can leave your 1 year old dog or cat alone for the day when you go to work - can't really do that with a baby. Well. You can, but it's frowned upon. :P

It took a long time for my desire for kids to kick in - mostly it was that I hadn't been around any -good- kids. Then I got to spend a summer with my sister's twin 2 year olds and I realized that yeah, they're horribly annoying, but they're also really cool, and come up with some hilarious and imaginative stuff. And the interaction you can have with a child is amazing - explaining to them about the world, filling their heads with ideas and nonsense... doesn't stop me from sometimes wishing I could trade my kid for a puppy, but really... trying to compare human children and animal children is just silly. They're both immature examples of their own -wildly different- species. The only real similarity is their youth and "cuteness".

I think HP couldn't have said it any better than me and has the experience with human babies to boot.
there's something about a baby cry that is just so ear wrenching...unlike a dog whining which again like HP said you can ignore.
I can't attest to the smelly part though but I'm going to give her the benefit of the doubt as she's had more experience with these things.


Also, I can't take seriously the claims that pets are "easier" to care for, my dogs have done so much damage both material and psychological that I don't think any baby can live up to it. Animals can behave badly.


I also can't stand it when a kid (or an adult) is being loud in a restaurant or on an airplane or anywhere really. But it's hard to just "hate kids" because some of them are loud.

oh I don't deny that some pets aren't easier. Emily (dog) had ruined our good couch...teared it all to shreds. she also was no fun to walk. thanks to her my mom suffered a bad blow to her leg and I had gotten a sore butt for weeks. but I had never wanted a dog like her anyway. if I had known when I got her that she was the breed she was then I probly would have refused the offer to keep her. I never liked big dogs and that breed is one of the worst because it is high sprung.
Monique (one of my rabbits) had bit me on the arm once when I was just sitting on the couch once and I could never get her to like me. she always just wanted to bite me it seemed. she also started to chew a wire and she had chewed a button on the vcr remote (you have to push it down harder since it was chewed)
in general though pets are not as difficult as you think. the dog I had during my childhood gave me hardly any problems at all. the only thing I remember him doing was trying to get into my mom's purse (he was never able to succeed) and going the bathroom once in the house but the bathroom incident I take all blame for.


I do not see how it is immature to say that I hate babies. it's not like I am going to hit one if they bother me. I'm not a baby abuser.
I'm also not going to go up to someone and say "hi your baby is ugly"
it's just that I can't stand them. although HP explained it best, I will sum up my personal feelings, they're ugly they cry too much and they're messy.
now before you say wait a minute so you hate ugly people then too...no I do not. I am not shallow by any means.
see human babies they can look freaky looking..reminds me of an alien. nothing like what society would call ugly people, it reaches a new level. it probly helps that they are bald, that probly contributes to some of the freaky look because in the age where kids start to get hair they tend to look better. this probly sounds really odd but I'm saying this because I just don't see how people can coo so much at a baby when it's not their own.

I am not saying that all human babies are ugly because I have seen some that don't look too bad but they are average at best. I have yet to see a cute baby.

as far as the messiness what I mean by that is a lot of babies like to play with their food and it gets all over everything. it's gross.
then there's also the problem of spitting up which is just lovely.

when I say I hate babies, it just means that I care not to babysit or see videos of babies or get annoyed when I hear a baby being fussy.
some day I will probly have kids but it has to be with a really special guy and when I do I will be impatient for the kid to go past the baby stage.


maybe my hatred of babies however has a lot to do with my incident. before my incident, I still didn't like babies but perhaps I never felt that strongly as that can bring a new meaning to things. my mom seems to think that has a lot to do with that anyway.

I think the biggest thing about babies is some people seem to care too much about them..meaning when they're in the womb.
so I guess we can say the hardcore prolifers are part of the reason for my aversion to babies even though I'm not trying to blame babies at all. its just easy to associate.

[simbalena]

there's something about a baby cry that is just so ear wrenching...unlike a dog whining which again like HP said you can ignore.

Personally I find a whining dog just as unbearable as a baby crying, be they human or animal it is impossible to ignore anyone who is crying out for help.

I do think that people who hate children and/or animals have a problem. It may not be immaturity but perhaps they have limited empathy?

I'm not trying to attack anyone, I just sincerely don't understand why individuals have difficulty accepting kids or animals.

[grumpy_otter]

I do think that people who hate children and/or animals have a problem. It may not be immaturity but perhaps they have limited empathy?


I don't think anyone here really means they "hate" kids--it seems more like "don't want to be around kids" and "don't care to be a parent."

To me, the latter is very healthy--I wish more people could understand their parenting desires or not before they have kids.

[fakepeeps7]

I don't think anyone here really means they "hate" kids--it seems more like "don't want to be around kids" and "don't care to be a parent."

Agreed. I don't really "hate" people. Their behaviour can drive me nuts, sure. But I don't actually hate the person.

To me, the latter is very healthy--I wish more people could understand their parenting desires or not before they have kids.

Again, agreed. I wish more people would really think about having children. In this day and age, we have so many more options... and so much more birth control. We can actually choose whether or not to have children. I don't think that makes you immature. If anything, making such a decision indicates maturity because you've actually thought about it, maybe realized your limitations (perhaps you're not a very patient person, for example), and decided not to halfheartedly bring another person onto the planet.

[romagi]

I totally agree, be it animal or human I can not ignore a cry for help.

I love my children and would not exchange one moment of my time with them for an animal. But as for cooing over animal or human I will probably coo over a baby animal more often than a human baby. Most, not all human babies that you don't know are just not that cute. It is the personality when you know them that makes them cute.

[Purity4]

see human babies they can look freaky looking..reminds me of an alien. nothing like what society would call ugly people, it reaches a new level. it probly helps that they are bald, that probly contributes to some of the freaky look because in the age where kids start to get hair they tend to look better. this probly sounds really odd but I'm saying this because I just don't see how people can coo so much at a baby when it's not their own.

I am not saying that all human babies are ugly because I have seen some that don't look too bad but they are average at best. I have yet to see a cute baby.

Both of my babies have never been bald. The first one had a whole lot of dark brown hair when born. The other had orangey/blonde peach fuzz hair. The first one, all round and chubby and healthy looking, the second one all puny, bony and truly looked liked an alien in the face (and the ears hadn't rolled down yet on the edges..freaky).

I've never cooed over other babies. I do not understand it. Once I had my own, I could understand why some people would coo over them, not so much because the baby is cute, but rather over the bond, the closeness between parent (esp. mother) and child, the role of caretaker over this helpless, needy little thing.

[Purity4]

Personally I find a whining dog just as unbearable as a baby crying, be they human or animal it is impossible to ignore anyone who is crying out for help.

I do think that people who hate children and/or animals have a problem. It may not be immaturity but perhaps they have limited empathy?

I'm not trying to attack anyone, I just sincerely don't understand why individuals have difficulty accepting kids or animals.

Recorded infant cries were used as a form of torture to prisoners of war. Not kitten cries, not puppy cries, not eagle screeches, human infant cries. Why? Because biologically, this causes the most distress for us adult humans. Tortuous distress.

[Drakesecaravdis]

I don't think anyone here really means they "hate" kids--it seems more like "don't want to be around kids" and "don't care to be a parent."

To me, the latter is very healthy--I wish more people could understand their parenting desires or not before they have kids.

I guess thats what I mean when I say I hate babies moreso. I don't care to be around them. I'm not one to hate people. the only person I truly hate in this world is my father but I just don't like being around babies or watching videos of them like I said.


Both of my babies have never been bald. The first one had a whole lot of dark brown hair when born. The other had orangey/blonde peach fuzz hair. The first one, all round and chubby and healthy looking, the second one all puny, bony and truly looked liked an alien in the face (and the ears hadn't rolled down yet on the edges..freaky).

yeah I'm not saying that a baby can't have hair because I probly had a little not too long after I was born but generally they dont.

I've never cooed over other babies. I do not understand it. Once I had my own, I could understand why some people would coo over them, not so much because the baby is cute, but rather over the bond, the closeness between parent (esp. mother) and child, the role of caretaker over this helpless, needy little thing.
I see.

Personally I find a whining dog just as unbearable as a baby crying, be they human or animal it is impossible to ignore anyone who is crying out for help.
I'm not saying that it is something you can always ignore but I mean that a whining dog is easier as it's not as difficult on the ears and I think what Purity said is the best explanation.

[Purity4]

yeah I'm not saying that a baby can't have hair because I probly had a little not too long after I was born but generally they dont.


What? generally? Seriously? I've never met a bald baby. If you're not around them, where are you coming up with these conclusions about hairless-ness?

[el_flel]

I was a bald baby. I didn't have much beyond a layer of fair fluff until I was almost three. It was ridiculous, I had such a huge head it would have been nice to have some hair to try and cover it up.

[Purity4]

I was a bald baby. I didn't have much beyond a layer of fair fluff until I was almost three. It was ridiculous, I had such a huge head it would have been nice to have some hair to try and cover it up.
:lol: Well, I really doubt Drakes saw you as a baby, and that your baby baldness wasn't taken into consideration when Drakes made their conclusions about newborns generally being bald.

[jooxis]

There is no sound I have heard that is even near as unpleasant as the sound of my dog barking. I would rather listen to 50 babies and 50 mechanical asphalt drills at the same time than when he barks - it actually damages my mental health how loud and intrustive the sound is. I experience a series of twitches and involuntary actions when he suddenyls starts barking and I near have a seizure every time.

So yeah, to each his own. As far as I'm concerned the torturers and Nazis got it wrong.


As far as cuteness goes, I have read on Wikipedia that the fact that humans find baby animals cute is kind of like a "mistake" in nature, as we are are supposed to feel these "cute" feelings towards human infants in order to strengthen our desire to nurture and protect them. This is exactly why it makes NO sense to me why most people don't seem to find babies cute but find animals cute. I am speaking, again, purely biologically - this is the part that interests me.

[Drakesecaravdis]

What? generally? Seriously? I've never met a bald baby. If you're not around them, where are you coming up with these conclusions about hairless-ness?

I've seen a lot of pictures of bald babies and some in stores so generally for me they've been bald.

[jooxis]

I've never seen a bald baby either and I've seen thousands of them - they just have very rare and thin hair sometimes so you can see their head

[fakepeeps7]

I've seen a lot of pictures of bald babies and some in stores so generally for me they've been bald.

What is "bald"? A lot of babies don't have much more than a bit of fuzz. They're not completely hairless, but I would consider them bald.

Then there are the babies that come out sporting what looks like a toupee. They're pretty much the opposite of bald!

Does it really matter if they have hair or not, though? They're still going to cry and poop and demand your attention for 18+ years... :lol:

[jooxis]

I suppose you mean this

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1059/1450477674_890ab82f70.jpg?v=0

Some consider this bald, but it still has hair...

anyway, perhaps this doesn't matter much.

[fakepeeps7]

I suppose you mean this

Some consider this bald, but it still has hair...

anyway, perhaps this doesn't matter much.

Yep, pretty much. I figure that if we would consider it "bald" on an adult head, it's "bald" on a baby's head.

Check out some early pictures of Suri Cruise for a good comparison. Now that baby had hair!

[el_flel]

I think I might have been even balder than the baby in that picture!!

[HystericalParoxysm]

http://www.modyourpanties.com/hosting/21841_100725210650newposts.jpg

I love New Posts sometimes.

[Drakesecaravdis]

I suppose you mean this

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1059/1450477674_890ab82f70.jpg?v=0

Some consider this bald, but it still has hair...

anyway, perhaps this doesn't matter much.

yeah that's what I meant


Does it really matter if they have hair or not, though? They're still going to cry and poop and demand your attention for 18+ years... :lol:
it doesn't really matter. if this was the only unappealing thing about babies then I wouldn't care.
like I said I was just simply pointing out what helps to make a baby unappealing.

[malfoya]

I'm one of those who prefers pets to kids. Believe me I don't think there's anything wrong about people who love them, it's just that I feel uncomfortable around them. I especially hate it when people asks me to talk to them or tell them to go talk with me. I just can't handle the weird, kinda fake, voice you make when you talk to them. Though when I talk to my cat I sound as crazy.. hehe. Guess pets are easier to handle from my sight.

[jooxis]

I especially hate it when people asks me to talk to them or tell them to go talk with me. I just can't handle the weird, kinda fake, voice you make when you talk to them.

But... you don't have to talk to them in "that voice" - you can use your normal voice :p

I also have trouble making my voice all "soft and high-pitched" when I talk to toddlers - so I just don't. I use my normal voice and I've noticed some people seem to give me weird looks for it. As if I'm treating it like an adult and therefore obviously don't have experience with children. Maybe that's partly true but I just won't do the stupid voice.

[ninotchka]

I'm one of those who prefers pets to kids. Believe me I don't think there's anything wrong about people who love them, it's just that I feel uncomfortable around them. I especially hate it when people asks me to talk to them or tell them to go talk with me. I just can't handle the weird, kinda fake, voice you make when you talk to them. Though when I talk to my cat I sound as crazy.. hehe. Guess pets are easier to handle from my sight.

I do this too, with our 3 cats, give them extra cute names on top of their normal names and go gooey when I see them sleeping in a cute position or whatever (everything they do except the butt sniffing! lol). But with kids, I feel like they can see right through the act, but then again if I don't put on that voice, I am afraid they find me too serious and cold.

On top of that, like you Malfoya, I hate feigning that "talking to kids" voice....uggghhhh... when I talk like that to my cats, at least I am really feeling the fuzzy wuzzy feeling that goes with that kind of talk :lol:

I admire people who are so relaxed around kids, that they can just be themselves. I am, in a way, intimidated by children because I just can't relate to most of their interests or limited/unlimited attention span....maybe that's selfish of me, but I don't expect them to find me interesting either :D

[sarrrrah]

I don't hate children...I just can't stand their irresponsible parents.

[supersimoholic]

I don't like babies because I know most of the babies I meet will end up being violent and abusive. I live in an area where it's common for children to have had their "first arrest" before they are even in secondary school - and think that's cool!.. I've even lost hope for my own nephew, as my sister, although while pregnant said she would never swear in front of him, does so ALOT and also argues with my Mum (they live together) constantly in front of him and she likes to wake him up for no reason, to see his reaction... ALSO his "father" is in prison for a brutal UNPROVOKED gang attack on a man at a bus stop who was with his 12 year old daughter, and another attack of the same nature on a man and his girlfriend... Now, he doesn't stand a chance.
(I know that this doesn't count for every baby in the world, but it does for most of the ones I know)

I only like children that I can have a conversation with, even if it's really silly and makes hardly any sense.

As for me, I can't wait to have kids! Me any my Leeface talk about it all the time and it's what I want to do with my life. I plan to Home Educate and hopefully I'll be able to because with schools here the way they are they'll have no chance and I really don't think me and Lee will ever be in a position to be able to pay for a good private school.

[simbalena]

I don't mind bald babies, but I hate those stupid ribbons parents tie around their babies big bald heads!

It's a bald head... it doesn't look prettier when you add a ribbon!

[HystericalParoxysm]

Why would you tie a ribbon around a kid's head, when you can make their head look like a roast turkey's ass?

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2403/2215349143_df980919f8.jpg

[simbalena]

Cute, except when you pat them on the head it looks like you're fondling a turkey!

[grumpy_otter]

I don't mind bald babies, but I hate those stupid ribbons parents tie around their babies big bald heads!

It's a bald head... it doesn't look prettier when you add a ribbon!

I was bald for two years--my mom would tape a ribbon to my head so people would know I was a girl.

All newborn babies either look like Winston Churchill or Elvis. :lol:

[Purity4]

But... you don't have to talk to them in "that voice" - you can use your normal voice :p.

Yeah, I don't understand people who lapse into baby talk or weird voices when speaking to children. It's just so weird when I've seen people do this, and I'm sure I've given them weird looks. I've always talked to children as I do anyone else.



I admire people who are so relaxed around kids, that they can just be themselves. I am, in a way, intimidated by children because I just can't relate to most of their interests or limited/unlimited attention span....maybe that's selfish of me, but I don't expect them to find me interesting either :D

I am always myself, no matter who I speak with. However, no matter if someone is younger, older or the same age, most of their interests and limited attention span doesn't appeal to me either and I don't expect them to find me interesting, either. ;)

[simbalena]

Yeah, I don't understand people who lapse into baby talk or weird voices when speaking to children.

I talk to to kids normally but I talk to animals in baby talk and I don't even realise I'm doing it, the smaller the animal the higher the voice!

[SuicidiaParasidia]

Human babies are only so cute and cuddly and adorable as long as you don't have to change their nappies!

At least kittens are cleaner and don't play in their own poop.

...or puke on you.

or make a high pitched grating wail whenever they are wet or hungry.


.....
or slobber.
or need to be watched every minute of every day.

[fakepeeps7]

At least kittens are cleaner and don't play in their own poop.

What is a litterbox, then? You can't tell me a cat never touches its own poop when they're digging around in there.

Unless you're one of those inconsiderate cat owners that lets their cats out to poop in the neighbour's garden...

Personally, I think diapers are gross... but at least most babies will grow out of that stage and eventually use the toilet. With cats and dogs, you're always going to have to deal with the poop. Well, you will if you're a responsible pet owner, anyway.

[Sparklycookie]

What is a litterbox, then? You can't tell me a cat never touches its own poop when they're digging around in there.

Unless you're one of those inconsiderate cat owners that lets their cats out to poop in the neighbour's garden...

Personally, I think diapers are gross... but at least most babies will grow out of that stage and eventually use the toilet. With cats and dogs, you're always going to have to deal with the poop. Well, you will if you're a responsible pet owner, anyway.

What I meant is that kittens are cleaner- they can be trained to go only in their litterbox, which can be cleaned up neatly and quickly. Human babies don't go in one place until potty trained, and so can spread their poop everywhere, and it's hard to clean and really disgusting. That's one reason why I don't want kids- I don't want to deal with that. And animal poop is often harder, so easier to clean up in the event of a litterbox spill.

Our cats just went in our garden- we had no flowers, and they did a good job of not making a mess. They were quite neat kitties.

[jooxis]

I also don't think cats are cleaner than babies. Babies are super clean unless you're touching their poo or wiping their bums - but that goes for cats as well. I always wash my hands after touching an animal but I don't have to if I pat a baby on the head.

[Clashfan]

Anyone who thinks a cat is cleaner than a human child has never experienced a feline spraying your furniture to mark it's territory. I'm firmly in the camp of animals over kids but it's not because I think they are cleaner. I will say that with the advances made in kitty litter cleaning the litterbox is relatively easy. I also don't feed my cat pureed English peas either, which come out of a human child looking pretty much exactly like they went in only with odor. ;)

[ninotchka]

Why would you tie a ribbon around a kid's head, when you can make their head look like a roast turkey's ass?

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2403/2215349143_df980919f8.jpg

Ok this pic is making me rethink my position here :) Awweeeeeeee :lovestruc

[paksetti]

Oh, I think babies are cute, when they're someone else's baby, because when they poop, it's not your responsibility.

I spent most of yesterday playing with a one-year-old. He is... annoying and adorable.

Also, puppies. :D

[HystericalParoxysm]

rofl... an infant might be cleaner than a cat, but as soon as they're mobile, they manage to spread a thin layer of crumbs, applesauce, and milk over the entire house. Cats usually pee in one place or just a cluster of places, if they go somewhere other than their litterbox. Maybe a house -full- of messy cats might be dirtier than a house with a baby, but cats usually don't fling pureed carrots on the ceiling.

[fakepeeps7]

Maybe a house -full- of messy cats might be dirtier than a house with a baby, but cats usually don't fling pureed carrots on the ceiling.

That's some strong baby you've got there... :lol:

[Ghanima Atreides]

I also don't think cats are cleaner than babies. Babies are super clean unless you're touching their poo or wiping their bums - but that goes for cats as well. I always wash my hands after touching an animal but I don't have to if I pat a baby on the head.

Heh yeah, except you don't have to change a cat's diaper several times a day or wipe its ass. They're easily trained to use the litter on their own (most of them; I know there are exceptions but all of mine have gone pretty much on their own, and even kittens didn't have much trouble learning), and if you feed them the right kind of food they also don't smell too bad (personally, I touch my cat all day long without washing my hands - err, that may have come out the wrong way, but you lot know what I mean :D )

Also, the thing with spraying the furniture is mostly a non-neutered tomcat issue, so unless you're planning to breed them, best to have your pets spayed/neutered.

With babies, that's another fairly big minus for me - I find feces stomach-turning -whatever the provenance, and especially when it's, well...mushy. :|

[fakepeeps7]

(personally, I touch my cat all day long without washing my hands - err, that may have come out the wrong way, but you lot know what I mean :D )

I can't help but shudder when I think of someone touching an animal that licks its own butt and then the rest of its body... and then doesn't wash their hands.

Remind me not to accept any dinner invitations from you. :)

[supersimoholic]

I can't help but shudder when I think of someone touching an animal that licks its own butt and then the rest of its body... and then doesn't wash their hands.

Remind me not to accept any dinner invitations from you. :)

But their tongues are designed to clean.

And like people have said, only non neutered males spray, and usually only when they first move in or if there is another male around. I mean yeah, a female might pee if she can't get out or get to a litter tray, but I've had 2 female cats for 13 years and neither of them sprayed before or after they were spayed, and we just took in a male cat (i say just, it's been like 2 years) and he was already neutered and he's never sprayed.

the most mess my cat's make concerning food is 2 of them like to take the food out of their bowl and eat it off the floor, but that's not too much hassle because we have their bowls on a mat.

And as far as babies being clean except for dirty bums... a cat will lick their paws clean if they get food on them, a baby, however, will leave nasty sticky crap all over their hands and then TOUCH EVERYTHING and get that all dirty too, because obviously, they are too young to understand that it's bad. babies don't care about being dirty but kittens and full grown cats are very clean.

[jooxis]

Sorry, at least for me, animals are dirtier than human babies despite anything anyone says. I've been to many homes with pets and many homes with babies and from my experience pets are dirtier. I'm much more likely to wash my hands after touching a dog or cat than a baby. Every baby I have encountered has been super clean. Of course their puke, poo and spit is gross, just the same as an animal's. And most of the pet cats I know occasionally pee and poo in bed sheets and clothing and make other kinds of messes elsewhere. Regardless of whether they're spayed and neutered.

[supersimoholic]

Sorry, at least for me, animals are dirtier than human babies despite anything anyone says. I've been to many homes with pets and many homes with babies and from my experience pets are dirtier. I'm much more likely to wash my hands after touching a dog or cat than a baby. Every baby I have encountered has been super clean. Of course their puke, poo and spit is gross, just the same as an animal's. And most of the pet cats I know occasionally pee and poo in bed sheets and clothing and make other kinds of messes elsewhere. Regardless of whether they're spayed and neutered.

But that's down to the owner... If they don't clean or at least hoover every day then the hair will pile but that's about it, i mean you'd have to do the same with a baby, they leave crumbs and bits of food and toys every where too.

[~Dee~]

The only reason babies are clean is, because Mum washes them, cats on the other hand wash themselves and if you ever smelled a cat, you'll know that there is no smell at all.
Not like a dog, if you didn't wash a dog it would smell of...dog.

Supersimoholic is right, the cats tongue is specifically designed for cleaning, that's why the surface is rough.
I have a dog and a cat and neither ever peed or pooped inside, they have a dog flap at the backdoor and go outside, rain or shine.
I have trained them to be housebroken.

I don't hate kids, but I'm glad mine is grown up now, I like cute babies as long as I can give them back.

[Ghanima Atreides]

Every baby I have encountered has been super clean.

Well, yes, because their parents keep them that way; that's the point, babies require a lot more caring in general to be kept clean themselves, as well as everything else around them (especially when they start moving, like HP said.) Left to their own devices they'd be considerably...less clean.


And most of the pet cats I know occasionally pee and poo in bed sheets and clothing and make other kinds of messes elsewhere. Regardless of whether they're spayed and neutered.

Not that I'm doubting you or anything, but in that case you must've met an unusual number of either very dirty cats or very bad owners. I've had cats all my life in different houses and I moved around a bit in the whole "Cat people" circle, and I've only ever encountered one cat who occasionally peed outside the litter box, even though she knew it was there. And one kitten who did it once out of fear. But since you added "despite what anyone says", I guess this won't matter much.

Judging by this argument, I think it basically comes down to what people are willing to put up with for something they really want. Parents put up with the mess their kids make because they're their kids and they love them, and animal lovers don't mind the hair and occasional hairball (for cats) or other damage they might cause. Hell, some even have both. However, I find it interesting how it's the actual parents who agree kids are the messiest :giggler:

For me personally, the mess itself isn't the biggest problem: it's the amount of utter care, patience and devotion required to raise a child as opposed to an animal which is far more self-sufficient and far sooner (especially cats), and also because at the moment I prefer having animals in my life. And, I'd rather vaccuum hair than change diapers. :/

Jooxis mentioned earlier that this preference for animal care vs baby care is some kind of "fluke" that doesn't make sense- maybe, from a strict reproductive sense, but that's why we're humans. We do plenty of things that don't make strict biological sense, and we're not limited to primal responses, especially in a world where we no longer have to rely so much on that kind of base instincts to survive.

[jooxis]

Well, yes, because their parents keep them that way; that's the point, babies require a lot more caring in general to be kept clean themselves, as well as everything else around them (especially when they start moving, like HP said.) Left to their own devices they'd be considerably...less clean.


Their parents keep them clean, yes. That's part of the point - they are clean because they are normally kep clean. Most babies I know get bathed every day and they smell nice. Parents also keep their environment clean (the floor the baby crawls on, their clothing, etc.).

I admit I've never had a cat but I seriously have that kind of experience with people's cats. I'd visit a random friend and it's always like "just a second let me clean up, the cat peed on the rug" or someone else would go "my cat stopped using the litterbox AGAIN, now she's always peeing on my clean clothes", etc. multiple experiences like that. I can accept that this behavior, as you say, is rare. But from my experience it certainly goes on often enough.

A specific example - I've heard a "cat peed in my handbag/shoe!" complaint from at least three different people.

I have a few dogs and they're probably radioactive how dirty they are (they run loose in the yard every day).

[Ghanima Atreides]

About the cleanliness - yes but...that's pretty much the point people who say animals are cleaner overall try to make- it takes less effort to keep them (and the house) that way. In general, barring particularly messy animals and/or owners who aren't capable of training them properly and providing them with what they need to keep clean (because, in my experience, the latter is the bigger issue, not just cleanliness but other unwanted behaviour). In my case, I live in an apartment, so my kitty never goes outside, and all I have to do is vacuum and keep her litter clean. She even complains if it gets too dirty. Dogs do need baths, yeah, if they run around on their own; again, no experience there because I haven't owned one myself and when my family did, we also lived in an apartment and they got walked twice a day and yeah often they needed a bath when they came back in. It's part of the reason I prefer cats, myself :D

Babies are very clean when their parents clean them, yes - but it takes a hell of a lot more effort to keep them, and the house, that way. Great when you're not the one having to do it every day. A longer time too - practically until they move out.

[fakepeeps7]

But their tongues are designed to clean.

Their tongues clean mechanically, yes. They can get off dirt and other sorts of particles. But I'm not aware of anything in a cat's tongue or saliva that can destroy parasites, bacteria, or viruses. Unless the cat's tongue is secreting bleach, I'm not going to want to pet it after it's done a full-body cleaning.

Babies can carry parasites, bacteria, and viruses, too. But since they're generally kept clean by their mothers and don't spread these things all over their bodies with their tongues, I'd rather handle a baby than a cat. (Plus, with babies, at least you know where they've been. You can't really say the same thing for an outdoor cat.)

[Purity4]

:here: I can't help but shudder when I think of someone touching an animal that licks its own butt and then the rest of its body... and then doesn't wash their hands.


But their tongues are designed to clean.


So. That doesn't make their mouth, fur, or feet sterile. Cats are nasty, truly. I worked with animals for years, I love animals, but to not admit reality is just living in the clouds there, bud. Cats walk in their own shit and piss every single time they use the litterbox. Even if you scoop daily, or after every deposit, the germs and bacteria are still present and they walk around in there. Then they lick their bodies, assholes, feet, toenails (even nibble on those nails to get all the crud out) spreading that bacteria here and there. A cat's mouth is small and enclosed moreso than a humans even, therefore they have a high level of bacteria in there. A cat bite can cause life-threatening infection because of all the nastiness that exists in a cat's mouth coupled with the piercing of the teeth into your flesh. Cats are nasty, pure and simple.

[Oaktree]

Their tongues clean mechanically, yes. They can get off dirt and other sorts of particles. But I'm not aware of anything in a cat's tongue or saliva that can destroy parasites, bacteria, or viruses. Unless the cat's tongue is secreting bleach, I'm not going to want to pet it after it's done a full-body cleaning.

Babies can carry parasites, bacteria, and viruses, too. But since they're generally kept clean by their mothers and don't spread these things all over their bodies with their tongues, I'd rather handle a baby than a cat. (Plus, with babies, at least you know where they've been. You can't really say the same thing for an outdoor cat.)

Everything has some amount of bacteria and other infectious agents on it. It is impossible to avoid and you're probably better off handling those sorts of things every now and then anyway, because your immune system can develop a wider variety of immunities. Babies that are kept immaculately clean and germ-free at all times tend to develop into sickly children.

[comradebunny]

I don't hate children, but they make me uncomfortable a lot of the time. I have encountered way too many badly behaved children. I have seen way too many parents who refuse to actually parent their children. I let a lot of things go, but I'm the type of person who will not sit still when I see one child bully another. This can lead to interesting encounters with parents, but I've personally never had a big problem. It is, however, something I worry about. Kids can be cruel and I don't want to be around anyone like that.

[fragglerocks]

Hmmmmm....Not sure that I agree with my child being cleaner than my two cats. I've been thinking about this. I've lived in this townhouse for 10 years. Four of those I've had my child. Six years with my cats and my house was always spotless. Now, four years after the birth of my child, and I swear a tornado blew through.

Now I've taken into account that, yes, my child demands more attention, which does mean less time to clean.

I remember the infant days. Ugh. Runny diaper anyone? You know, the kind that runs down their legs and gets all over you, the bedding, and everything in between? Spit up almost never comes out of your favorite shirts, btw. Then they get older and their spilling juice and God knows what else into the carpet. My carpet has so many spills it looks like a friggin map. Whoever had the bright idea to put wall-to-wall carpet into the dining rooms here is a real genius. ;) My carpet cleaner is busted, so....ugh. I have to scrub that by hand, and in the time it takes me to finish, my toddler will have destroyed a hundred other things within her reach. When I mop the floors, she chases the cat across it. When I do laundry, she reorganizes the piles for me. Which is cute, the first twenty or so times, but after that I'm so worn out I don't feel like doing laundry anymore. Then keep in mind that babies and toddlers puke wherever they are at the time. I got covered one time. Not fun.

Cats can actually help clean though. Just attach some sponges to the bottom of their feet while the toddler chases them around. If you brush all the loose hairs off they make excellent mops. And if the toddler is covered head to toe in food, the cats will gladly bathe said toddler for you.

LOL

[uppalll]

i want to say that every in this world should think that they were children when they born and we should know that childrens or kids are inocent.they dont know what is right and what is wrong. so we have to teach them to prepare their habits so they can understand. kids always needs concentration for their health, habits. and their elders only can give them concentration regularly i mean parents or school teachers.
so think about it

[comradebunny]

It is not a teacher's responsibility to raise a child. They are hired to educate them in the state mandated areas.

[~Dee~]

:here:




So. That doesn't make their mouth, fur, or feet sterile. Cats are nasty, truly. I worked with animals for years, I love animals, but to not admit reality is just living in the clouds there, bud. Cats walk in their own shit and piss every single time they use the litterbox. Even if you scoop daily, or after every deposit, the germs and bacteria are still present and they walk around in there. Then they lick their bodies, assholes, feet, toenails (even nibble on those nails to get all the crud out) spreading that bacteria here and there. A cat's mouth is small and enclosed moreso than a humans even, therefore they have a high level of bacteria in there. A cat bite can cause life-threatening infection because of all the nastiness that exists in a cat's mouth coupled with the piercing of the teeth into your flesh. Cats are nasty, pure and simple.

Obviously you never had a cat, otherwise you wouldn't say that they are nasty. I love cats and the independent way they go about life.
No living thing is sterile, you aren't sterile neither are babies.
What is a good thing otherwise we would be sick more often.

I'll shock you now, I have a little dog and cat and in winter both of them crawl under the bedspread with me, one on one side the other on the other side, it's cosy and warm and the cat is purring like crazy. :) :up:

[eccentricgnat]

I loved our cat. She'd sit in the window and wait for us to come home. We had to give her away because of allergies. As for kids, mine are grown up. I never thought I'd like kids much, but I did like mine.

I used to love how my kids would hunt and peck on my face, when they were babies, when they were hungry. I always thought when babies laugh for the first time, it was like music. If you let kids know the rules most obey them. Parents want to be "best friends" now, with their kids, and that is the road to hell. Sometimes you have to be a "parent" and the "best friend" comes later, when they become adults. My best friends are my four adult kids. I love them, they are great folks.

I admire folks who don't have kids, because they just don't want them. I can't stand folks who have the children, then won't take responsibility for them, and want everyone else to raise their kids. Why did they ever have them?

[grumpy_otter]

Cats can actually help clean though. Just attach some sponges to the bottom of their feet while the toddler chases them around. If you brush all the loose hairs off they make excellent mops. And if the toddler is covered head to toe in food, the cats will gladly bathe said toddler for you.

LOL

Excellent method!

Cleanliness discussion aside--the one thing that toddlers have that cats do not is OPPOSABLE THUMBS. Makes them little wobbly tornadoes.

[Purity4]

Obviously you never had a cat, otherwise you wouldn't say that they are nasty. I love cats and the independent way they go about life.


Obviously I have owned a cat which is why I know they are nasty.
I also disagree that cats are independent.

I've owned one or more cats simultaneously since I was ... well, for 16 years. My old siamese cat died last April and my daughters are still heartbroken from her death. My last remaining cat is still as affectionate as ever and he recently turned 14 years old. I had one cat from the time she was 3 days old but I gave her to a good friend of mine before moving across the country. She would not keep her ass down as she peed. She'd start down, then as she peed, would straighten out those hind legs and the piss would shoot up. I used covered litterpans, inside larger pans, with plastic mats beneath and she still got piss on the carpet. She was spayed at the age of 8 months and was female. Her fur was like cotton, thick and furry and white. It got everywhere. I bathed/brushed my cats/dogs regularly and sometimes weekly, because otherwise I wouldn't want to touch them. Cats do smell if they aren't bathed in water, their tongue does not remove bacteria and bacteria is where odor comes from.

[Drakesecaravdis]

Obviously I have owned a cat which is why I know they are nasty.
I also disagree that cats are independent.

I've owned one or more cats simultaneously since I was ... well, for 16 years. My old siamese cat died last April and my daughters are still heartbroken from her death. My last remaining cat is still as affectionate as ever and he recently turned 14 years old. I had one cat from the time she was 3 days old but I gave her to a good friend of mine before moving across the country. She would not keep her ass down as she peed. She'd start down, then as she peed, would straighten out those hind legs and the piss would shoot up. I used covered litterpans, inside larger pans, with plastic mats beneath and she still got piss on the carpet. She was spayed at the age of 8 months and was female. Her fur was like cotton, thick and furry and white. It got everywhere. I bathed/brushed my cats/dogs regularly and sometimes weekly, because otherwise I wouldn't want to touch them. Cats do smell if they aren't bathed in water, their tongue does not remove bacteria and bacteria is where odor comes from.

that doesn't mean they are nasty. it's just your cats.
I've never had a cat but my mom had one when I was in kindergarten and I remember that she was always independent. idk if she smelled..it's one of those things that is difficult to remember but from what I recall she wasn't bad with going the bathroom.
my aunt also has had plenty of cats (had a lot of them since they were kittens) and when I've been over there, I have never smelled anything (just a dog smell cuz they have a dog too). all of them have been pretty independent and they always were good with going the bathroom. the only one she has said she had trouble with going the bathroom everywhere was one of her first cats, male Siamese named Sam.

[Purity4]

that doesn't mean they are nasty. it's just your cats.

Aside from the litter issue I had with that one cat, my cats haven't had any litter issues. I've already pointed out why I think cats are nasty in a previous post, which has nothing to do with whether a cat is mine, a friend's, one I fostered, those I cared for when I worked in animal rescue or one owned by a fastidious, snobby owner. Makes no difference who owns them, they are nasty because they lick themselves all over after walking in a litterbox. Their saliva alone is enough to make someone gag. It's the nature of being cat. That is all. If you need to be offended or defensive in their name, then that's your issue.

[~Dee~]

The only breed of cats what can turn nasty I'm aware of are Siamese, but you can't say that all cats are nasty, it's just not true.
I had cats all my life, none ever was or turned nasty with old age, but I always have female cats, I think they are more mellow to start off with.
And you shouldn't bath short haired cats, maybe that's why yours smelled, you're destroying the very thing what keeps the fur odorless.
I never bathed any of my cats and none of them ever smelled.

And talking about bacteria, bacteria is everywhere, not just in a cats mouth, in our own as well and on our skin.
Doesn't matter if you take a shower everyday, we all have creepy little things living on our skin.
Take a look under a very strong microscope and you'll get a shock. :)

[Purity4]

And you shouldn't bath short haired cats, maybe that's why yours smelled, you're destroying the very thing what keeps the fur odorless.
I never bathed any of my cats and none of them ever smelled.


All cats smell. Perhaps your sense of smell is defective or you've gotten used to your cat's smell. :|

I bathed/brushed my cats/dogs regularly and sometimes weekly, because otherwise I wouldn't want to touch them.

Yes, I'm quoting myself for proof of past tense used in this sentence. I haven't done the bathing of cats for five years now. Without that frequent grooming, the cat is not nearly as clean and smells like a cat and I am compelled to thoroughly wash my hands after handling him especially after trimming his toenails.

[~Dee~]

I don't think my cat would let me trim her toenails, I think she would turn nasty then too. :lol:
Nothing wrong with my sense of smell, I can smell my dog if I don't bath her every week, but I still maintain my cat is odorless...or lets say she has NO smell. :)

[Oaktree]

I had cats all my life, none ever was or turned nasty with old age, but I always have female cats, I think they are more mellow to start off with.

You never met a cat I used to have. Her name was Sheena and she was the meanest cat I've ever met. She got into fights with other cats, which is why she had a chunk taken out of one of her ears. We had her when I was around 10 years old and my parents wouldn't let my brothers or I bathe her because she would really claw up whomever bathed her. She got even meaner when she had kittens, though her kittens didn't inherit her disposition (thankfully).

On the other hand, my cousin's cat started out mean, but got really friendly as she got older. It really depends on the cat.

[Purity4]

I don't think my cat would let me trim her toenails, I think she would turn nasty then too. :lol:
Nothing wrong with my sense of smell, I can smell my dog if I don't bath her every week, but I still maintain my cat is odorless...or lets say she has NO smell. :)

I am thinking you are using the definition of nasty as mean or aggressive, when in my posts the word nasty was referring to germs and bacteria. Just thought I'd clear that up that I never called mine or anyone else's cat nasty as in mean.

[Drakesecaravdis]

That is all. If you need to be offended or defensive in their name, then that's your issue.

I was not offended. I'm not a cat person which is why I don't have any. I was just saying from experience.

but since you mean nasty as in bacteria/germ filled and you don't seem to get that bacteria/germs are a part of life (believe me I don't wanna think about that either. it's a gross idea but it's true) there's nothing more anyone can say.
the only thing left to say is a question: are you saying that cats carry diseases because of this?

[Purity4]

I was not offended. I'm not a cat person which is why I don't have any. I was just saying from experience.

but since you mean nasty as in bacteria/germ filled and you don't seem to get that bacteria/germs are a part of life (believe me I don't wanna think about that either. it's a gross idea but it's true) there's nothing more anyone can say.
the only thing left to say is a question: are you saying that cats carry diseases because of this?

No, I'm saying poop germs walked all over your house is nasty.

[Weeaboo]

The only breed of cats what can turn nasty I'm aware of are Siamese, but you can't say that all cats are nasty, it's just not true.

My Siamese would beg to differ.

He got thrown across the room once my his previous owner.

Thank god I was there to save him.

I just saw what he did, scooped up the kitten, and left.

Didn't say a word.

[Drakesecaravdis]

No, I'm saying poop germs walked all over your house is nasty.

I see but it's not much different than the bacteria/germs that are abundant in life. germs are germs.

[Purity4]

My Siamese would beg to differ.

He got thrown across the room once my his previous owner.

Thank god I was there to save him.

I just saw what he did, scooped up the kitten, and left.

Didn't say a word.

Yeah, breed really has nothing at all to do with temperament of a cat. My siamese was sweet as could be all her life, even tolerated the introduction of flying animals into the household and more dogs and later babies. She let anyone do anything to her and purred, purred, purred nonstop, for nearly 16 years.

[fakepeeps7]

the only thing left to say is a question: are you saying that cats carry diseases because of this?

Fine, I'll say it. Yes, they do.

Ever hear of something called toxoplasmosis? It's the reason why pregnant women are not supposed to change the litterbox. It's a parasite that can be very dangerous for the unborn fetus, and it's also been looked at as a suspected cause of schizophrenia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxoplasmosis#Possible_link_to_psychiatric_disorders) since the 1950s. That aside, it's not something I'd particularly want in my body, since it can change brain function (http://www.vancourier.com/health/Bees+rats+people+bear+similar+behaviour/3341855/story.html).

And cats (particularly outdoor cats) are the biggest carriers of this horrible little parasite. Through their poop. Which they walk on and spread all over their fur with their tongues. That's why they're nasty.

[fragglerocks]

Fine, I'll say it. Yes, they do.

Ever hear of something called toxoplasmosis? It's the reason why pregnant women are not supposed to change the litterbox. It's a parasite that can be very dangerous for the unborn fetus, and it's also been looked at as a suspected cause of schizophrenia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxoplasmosis#Possible_link_to_psychiatric_disorders) since the 1950s. That aside, it's not something I'd particularly want in my body, since it can change brain function (http://www.vancourier.com/health/Bees+rats+people+bear+similar+behaviour/3341855/story.html).

And cats (particularly outdoor cats) are the biggest carriers of this horrible little parasite. Through their poop. Which they walk on and spread all over their fur with their tongues. That's why they're nasty.

But that's when a bath comes in handy! :)

http://i28.tinypic.com/2qsylqq.jpg

But you are right about toxoplasmosis and pregnant women. It's bad for young children too. But as long as the litterbox is kept away from them, it should be fine. Its best in a well ventilated area of the house, and preferably near a window.