Marijuana: Should it be legal or not?? (read all post before posting)

[Mr.Fry]

Well this debate is about the use of marijuana and should it be legal....

Im starting this debate just to see what people's views on marijuana is...

I will start off the post with my opinion on this subject...

AND Even though the debate forum rules say not to argue im just re-instating it in this post:

PLEASE NO FLAME WARS JUST A PEACEFUL, CIVILIZED, DISCUSSION on this subject...

So dont be afraid to voice your opinion on this subject :P

[Mr.Fry]

My opinion:

I believe marijuana should be legal BUT not to be overdone (in other words it should be legal but in small amounts only, like in amsterdam)

The reason why i say this is because:

1. It can be helpful for cancer patients recovering
2. Marijuana is safer than cigarettes in a way
3. We can use this crop to help the economy get back on its feet

Ok i am kind of on both sides of this discussion so dont get me wrong.

I know most people think marijuana is super harmless or super harmful

but!! marijuana is neither one of those two: yes marijuana can lead to respitory problems and it really effects our youth which is why i say if it is legal then it should be dispensed like cigarettes 18 + only

another myth that people get wrong is: Marijuana is a gateway drug...

Yes marijuana CAN lead to other drugs.. BUT so can curiosity... even though this myth is still a myth and not a fact i cant dispel it at the time...

the last myth i will put in this post is: Marijuana is worst than cigarettes and alcohol.

Now that myth is false.. Yes marijuana has chemicals in it (so does everything else we eat or drink) but so does cigarettes and alcohol (especially alcohol lol) but

marijuana is not safer to smoke than tobacco (real tobacco grown on farms not store bought) because they both:

1. Can cause lung cancer (the smoke not the plants)
2. They both can make you lose brain cells with long term use
3. Both of them are a health hazard to kids and teens (because kids and teens are the most influenced by drugs, peers, and stuff on t.v.)


So i will be back to read the post after i take my shower and work on my new sims 3 world

[kennyinbmore]

All drugs should be legal. Nicotine and alcohol are drugs and are legal. The reality is that people who want drugs will use them whether they're legal or not. Portugal decriminalized drugs and use has actually gone down

[Mr.Fry]

true true.... what most people dont know is that most drugs are already legal and used daily e.g.: coffee, aspirin, alcohol, cigarettes...

i got this quote off of a website:

Heroin, cocaine, barbiturates and street methadone were ranked the most dangerous. Alcohol was the fifth most harmful drug and tobacco was the ninth most harmful. Neither marijuana nor Ecstasy made the top 10.


here is the website link: http://blogs.mercola.com/sites/vitalvotes/archive/2007/03/23/Legal-Drugs-That-Are-More-Dangerous-Than-Illegal-Ones.aspx

[Mr.Fry]

Maybe selling marijuana under a strict control of the government and allowing only to have small portions would work but once people have what they want, they'll want more and more. On the other hand, once decriminalized it will probably become less popular (forbidden fruit is the sweetest).


i really agree that if it does become legal it would become less popular (i forgot to mention that in my first post lol)

but i would think a strict distribution policy would happen like in amsterdam (they have coffee shops where you have to buy and smoke the marijuana in the coffee shop and its only a small amount [not enough to get you high])

but.... the USA (my country :P ) has alot of teens that would not be able to handle the legalization of marijuana....

so as of the current standing right now with the teens (and adults who dont know what self control is) in USA they should just keep it illegal and use the current process as what they are doing in california

[SimsLover50]

I can't really condone the legalization of marijuana. I'm against enforcing for possession, but not pro legalization, I don't think the state should be in the business of sanctioning a potentially harmful substance- and I do believe it harms some people, and is addictive, and can lead to mental illness in some, but neither should we waste tax payers dollars going after people for using it.

It is a thorny issue, as there are strong proponents for legalization and against.

[punkrockgoth1988]

Honestly, I think it ought to be legal for the 18+ groups and those who have some condition where it would be taken as a medication.

I don't think such a law would really stop those who want to try it before they're 18... I mean, after all, I was smoking cigarettes for a short bit when I was 16/17 and my friend had started smoking long before that. I also know a guy who isn't even 15 yet and yet he drinks.

Certainly I am no exception. If I recall correctly I was 14 when I first tried "Mary-Jane" and found that it made me happier and more energetic at a time when I was struggling with depression. Now it makes me more mellow when in a bad mood. I don't take it very often though. It would be nice if I could get it legally.

[Segagrey]

I say go for it. It's the least harmful out of the most commonly abused drugs. (Alcohol, Tobacco, Heroin...etc)
1. Can cause lung cancer (the smoke not the plants)
2. They both can make you lose brain cells with long term use
3. Both of them are a health hazard to kids and teens (because kids and teens are the most influenced by drugs, peers, and stuff on t.v.)
This however, is incorrect. A study in 2006 by researchers from UCLA’s David Geffen School of Medicine, found there was no connection between marijuana smoke and Lung cancer. In fact, there appeared to be a protective effect:
In a review of the research published last fall, University of Colorado molecular biologist Robert Melamede, PhD, concluded that the THC in cannabis seems to lessen the tumor-promoting properties of marijuana smoke.

The nicotine in tobacco has been shown to inhibit the destruction of cancer-causing cells, Melamede tells WebMD. THC does not appear to do this and may even do the opposite.

While there was a suggestion in the newly reported study that smoking marijuana is weakly protective against lung cancer, Tashkin says the very weak association was probably due to chance.

Cancer risk among cigarette smokers was not influenced by whether or not they also smoked marijuana.
The study itself:
Tashkin's study, funded by the National Institutes of Health's National Institute on Drug Abuse, involved 1,200 people in Los Angeles who had lung, neck or head cancer and an additional 1,040 people without cancer matched by age, sex and neighborhood.

They were all asked about their lifetime use of marijuana, tobacco and alcohol. The heaviest marijuana smokers had lighted up more than 22,000 times, while moderately heavy usage was defined as smoking 11,000 to 22,000 marijuana cigarettes. Tashkin found that even the very heavy marijuana smokers showed no increased incidence of the three cancers studied.

"This is the largest case-control study ever done, and everyone had to fill out a very extensive questionnaire about marijuana use," he said. "Bias can creep into any research, but we controlled for as many confounding factors as we could, and so I believe these results have real meaning."

It is addictive, but significantly less so, than other drugs. As for it's impairments on the mind, research has shown this is true, but the effects wore off after 4 weeks of non-use, even in the case of long-term usage.

[kennyinbmore]

I don't think the state should be in the business of sanctioning a potentially harmful substance-

Should alcohol and cigarettes be illegal?

[Tempscire]

It makes people happy while being safer than a number of legal non-prescription drugs: legalize it. Treat it like alcohol and cigarettes with an age restriction. All DWI laws would still be in effect (no reason for any new ones to be added). Remove it from drug testing employees get subjected to; make firing for it the basis for wrongful dismissal suits. Maybe even tax the hell out of it like cigarettes to get more revenue flowing towards the government. Legalize growing it in any scale operation, but require licensing for larger scale for-profit farms (same way you can serve food to your friends but have to start passing health inspections to sell to the public). Prohibition is both a failure and a waste of valuable resources.

I don't think the state should be in the business of sanctioning a potentially harmful substance- and I do believe it harms some people, and is addictive, and can lead to mental illness in some, but neither should we waste tax payers dollars going after people for using it.
"Potentially harmful" is a very wide umbrella. Aspirin is potentially harmful. Cheeseburgers are potentially harmful. Cars are potential harmful. Plastic bags are potentially harmful.

Marijuana is less addictive than cigarettes (or at least the nicotine crammed into cigarettes). We shouldn't make laws prohibiting something because some minority of people might not be responsible enough to handle it or have some biological reaction to it.

To go back to cheeseburgers to make an analogy: some people get addicted to food. The abundance of fat and cholesterol in cheeseburgers when consumed irresponsibly can be harmful to some people. Some people are genetically inclined to store fat more easily than other people and the harmful effects of cheeseburgers will be more severe for them. So let's ban cheeseburgers.

And what's the point of having a law on the books that isn't being enforced? If people aren't going to be punished for smoking marijuana, why prohibit it in the first place? Or would people be allowed to smoke but not allowed to grow or sell? Which would be hypocritical and be a government sanction of the black market. Last thing the cartels need is a stronger customer base.

[1] Maybe it is not that harmful as tobacco or alcohol but it is still a drug. ... [2]but once people have what they want, they'll want more and more.
1. Tylenol and aspirin are drugs. Does that magically make them "worse" than anything else? "Drug" is just a name for any chemical substance that affects the function of the body in some way. Alcohol is a drug. Why should we permit the more harmful drug just because it isn't as strongly associated with that word?

2. Slippery slope argument. As someone else mentioned, when Portugal legalized everything, they saw drug use drop. Plenty of people want to smoke marijuana and only marijuana. I don't even think it's physically possible to overdose on it.

[Mr.Fry]

@segagrey i meant that not the smoke from the weed im talking about the smoke from what you rolled it up in e.g. (copy paper, swisher, some people even use the blank bible paper)

[HystericalParoxysm]

but i would think a strict distribution policy would happen like in amsterdam (they have coffee shops where you have to buy and smoke the marijuana in the coffee shop and its only a small amount [not enough to get you high])

This is.... not really correct.

First of all, it's the Netherlands, not just Amsterdam, where there are coffee shops where you can buy marijuana and hashish. There are many of them in Amsterdam, but, for example, in the town I live in (about 40 minutes outside Amsterdam, and not a very large town) I know of at least 4 of them and there's probably more... They're called "coffee shops" but really, they are marijuana dispensaries - they sell snacks and drinks too, and various paraphernalia (bongs, rolling papers, pipes, etc.) but they're not really about coffee. Occasionally some of them actually do meals too but they're rare.

Secondly, you don't -have- to smoke it in the shop. You're sorta supposed to, but nobody will even blink at you if you come in, buy some, tuck it in your pocket, and leave. There are usually a few people sitting in the back partaking, but from what I've seen, at least 70% of patrons buy and leave immediately. It's not uncommon to smell it in the streets or wafting from windows. I'm not sure what the penalties are for smoking it outside a coffee shop - probably just being told to knock it off. :P

Thirdly, it is not just a small amount that is not enough to get you high (what would be the point of that?). You can buy a single or several joints at once (about the size of your index finger at the widest - they're cone-shaped), and even just 1/4 of one of those will get you -very- high. You can also buy (I think) up to 5 grams of just weed at once, which is PLENTY to get you high for -weeks-. Even the cheap stuff is -very- high quality, and unless you have been smoking it every day for 10 years, even an amount the size of an eraser tip is plenty to get you high.


(Source: I live in the Netherlands but I'm from the US. I don't smoke weed myself anymore, but I find the attitudes about it here pretty good and a decent approach to it - especially as, by the stats, less folks actually use it here than in the US despite it being legal... seems the best way to make something uncool is to legalize it.)

[Segagrey]

@Scenekidz I know, but after aggregating the results, I haven't found any evidence the smoke itself is especially dangerous, apart from normal lung irritation and damage from prolonged and heavy use. If you're smoking it out of something you shouldn't be, then yes you're in trouble. Otherwise, it's somewhat harmless compared to cigarette smoke. Actually that's misleading, it's less harmful than cigarette smoke.

To quote what I quoted again:
In a review of the research published last fall, University of Colorado molecular biologist Robert Melamede, PhD, concluded that the THC in cannabis seems to lessen the tumor-promoting properties of marijuana smoke.

[Mr.Fry]

@HystericalParoxysm first of all i just wanted to apologize for the way my brother acted on the forums the other day (Mr.Fry is my little brother)

but secondly i didnt know much about the "Coffee Shops" in the Netherlands.. i knew they sold marijuana in those coffee shops and i also knew about the snacks and other stuff that you could buy there.. (i visited there once) but i was told that i had to sit inside and smoke it and that i couldnt go outside and smoke it....

... I got a quote from wiki about the drug usage in those coffee shops

In the Netherlands, the selling of cannabis is "illegal, but not punishable", so the law is not enforced in establishments following these nationwide rules:

no advertising
no hard drug sales on the premises
no sales to anyone under the age of 18
no sales transactions exceeding 5 grams
no public disturbances
For some offenses, a business may be forced to close for three to six months, for others, completely; all this is detailed in official policies.
Coffeeshops are no longer allowed to sell alcohol. Most coffee shops advertise, and the constraint is more moderating than outright prohibitive. In a gesture of discretion still technically required, many coffee shops keep the cannabis menu below the counter, even when the cannabis itself is in more-or-less plain view. Dutch coffee shops often fly red-yellow-green Ethiopian flags, other symbols of the Rastafari movement, or depiction of palm leaves to indicate that they sell cannabis, as a consequence of the official ban on direct advertising. This aesthetic attracted many public artists who get commissions to create murals in the coffee shops and use the Rastafari and reggae related imagery.
Coffeeshops provide non-contaminated cannabis products (and hence are as safe as store-bought tobacco, as far as unexpected chemicals are concerned). Cannabis and any food products containing cannabis are generally clearly identified to prevent accidental consumption.

@segagrey

oh ok now i understand your point

[archamedes]

from what I have heard the only reason it hasn't been legalized here (the UK) is because the government cannot tax it, and thats it. How can they make tax from something you can pretty much grow in your own garden or under UV lights? they try to look like they have the best interests of peoples health when they say they won't leagalize it but at the end of the day it would be a nightmare for them to control the tax income made from them.

Secondly the government always listen to the do gooders who probably haven't touched the stuff but condemn it as a by product of satan and made to destroy the minds of those who use it, they hardly ever listen to those who actually speak reason and show the positive sides of it. For one, I don't think there has been a recorded death from overdose of marijuana, for second, you don't tend to get aggressive and start fights with it, unlike the highly taxable drug known as alcohol. Third it has health benefits for those with some illnesses, unlike another taxable drug that causes health problems known as tobacco. But its an endless war that if legalized will only get made illegal again whenever someone new comes into parlement.

[HystericalParoxysm]

It may have been that you were told not to leave if it was a very touristy place you went to in Amsterdam - nobody really like.... goes outside and sits on a bench and tokes up, but going back to a house/hotel room in which you could smoke would not be at all unusual.

[CmarNYC]

I say legalize. It's completely ridiculous for alcohol to be legal while pot isn't, when pot is less physically harmful, less physically addictive, and has valuable medical uses. The main 'danger' of marijuana IMO is the consequences of getting caught - jail time and a record have damaged more lives than the drug itself.

For myself the main danger of pot is that it always gave me the munchies something terrible and if it was legal I'd probably wind up big as a house. :D

[Mistermook]

I'd legalize all drugs here in the states if I could, simply to get it out of the hands of criminals, place the burden of addiction on rehabilitation rather than incarceration, regulate and manage the relative safety of the product and basically phase it out by bringing it out into the open. Smoking is legal and on the decline, you could do the same thing with nearly every other drug while still not restricting access to the stuff entirely.

[kennyinbmore]

You can overdose on everything and it depends on many factors like age, health, type of substance etc. The Polish society is too immature to be given access to marijuana and other drugs. And judging from my experience people just can't get enough. Once they're given what they want they just keep demanding more and more. I observe stupid, immoral people from my university and I cannot just imagine them getting marijuana. They behave as if they got high without taking anything!

Is it really the job of governments to save people from themselves?

[Mr.Fry]

@archamedes same thing i was told about USA

@ HystericalParoxysm probably so it was touristy there

@CmarNYC yeah i agree and i also dont understand why put a simple everyday person in jail for a plant when there are people out in the streets commiting real crimes and they dont have a place to put them because some so called "MARIJUANA DRUG DEALER" is serving in there spot..

@Wojtek you CAN overdose on marijuana but you will have to smoke your own weight in marijuana (grams) before you overdose and die... e.g. i weigh 115 pounds
(52.1631226 kilograms).... IF you smoke to much marijuana at one time lets say 5+ blunts (or 2 blunts of very strong strain of marijuana) you can/will pass out which can lead the blunt to burn carpet, or any fabric you are smoking near (if the blunt doesnt go out when dropped) than that could lead to a fire which could lead to death....

[HystericalParoxysm]

Wojtek - You can't really overdose on marijuana/hashish, actually. You'd die from smoke inhalation long before you ever reached a toxic dose of the active ingredient (and really, nobody would ever want to get that high - you'd fall asleep long before you got there anyway). It may be able to interact with certain health conditions (heart problems, asthma, allergies) to cause a lethal reaction by some other way, but that's -incredibly- rare and not really the same thing as an overdose. It's not a drug that can be directly lethal like alcohol, opiates, etc... The only way I can see it being directly lethal is if you managed to somehow distill the THC out and inject a toxic dose but -nobody does that-, and even hashish (which is more refined) or cannabis oil, the idea is to get pleasantly high, not over the moon, and again, you'd just fall asleep if you took too much and wake up feeling a bit groggy, but entirely alive.

[Mr.Fry]

The Polish society is too immature to be given access to marijuana and other drugs. And judging from my experience people just can't get enough. Once they're given what they want they just keep demanding more and more. I observe stupid, immoral people from my university and I cannot just imagine them getting marijuana. They behave as if they got high without taking anything!

let me just clear this up before anybody post something!! lol

marijuana DOES NOT make the user stupid/ mentally retarded... Some people (and stereotypes of weed smokers who see people high in movies and think thats how you act when high) don't know how to control their high...

Alot of people are more creative when high on marijuana and alot of us just know how to chill when high ... But all those kids you see out there running around and acting a fool while high on marijuana are just stereotypes of the cannabis smoking community and make all of us look bad....

If you were to be beside me when im high on the drug you wouldnt even know unless you smelt my fingers, or unless i told you...

[Nekowolf]

@SimsLover50

Funny thing about that. You can illegalize cigarettes, and I'd imagine there'd be quite a bit of outrage. Pot is already illegal. But you try to illegalize alcohol, which has been done in the US, you get some of the most notorious and influential gangs ever to take root in American soil. I guess people really love their booze. /just sort of randomly wandering on in here

[SimsLover50]

@SimsLover50

Funny thing about that. You can illegalize cigarettes, and I'd imagine there'd be quite a bit of outrage. Pot is already illegal. But you try to illegalize alcohol, which has been done in the US, you get some of the most notorious and influential gangs ever to take root in American soil. I guess people really love their booze. /just sort of randomly wandering on in here

I actually think alcohol should not be made illegal. Cigarettes seem to be thankfully dying on its own.

[Mr.Fry]

@Wojtek lol same thing i stated earlier

@nekowolf well welcome to our discussion and i agree with you that there would be (there already is a uproar about selling them) big uproar if cigarettes were illegal...

But i still cant get past the fact that most people hate marijuana because the government put a label on it = Illegal Drug

Most people think because marijuana is illegal it is up there with drugs like crack, cocaine, meth (im talking about the deadliness)

But alot of people accept that people smoke cigarettes and smoking in restaraunts around their kids....Even when the Surgeon General cleary (the companies basically) puts a label on the side of cigarette carton that is clearly stating: Smoking Cause Lung Cancer, Heart Disease, Emphysema, And May complicate pregnancy...

Its funny cause if people actually took the time to research they would find out how bad cigarettes are:

Random Fact: Did you know that Tobacco cause 40 percent of hospital illnesses and alcohol is a factor in more than half of all visits to hospital emergency rooms

[Mr.Fry]

Hey guys sorry for the link not working in my other comment here is what the link said:



Legal Drugs that are more dangerous than illegal drugs:

New research has found that alcohol and tobacco are more dangerous than some illegal drugs. When ranked based on actual risks posed to society, alcohol and tobacco are among the top 10 most dangerous substances.

Risk to society was calculated based on the physical harm to the user, the drug's potential for addiction, and the impact on society of the use of the drug. Groups of experts assigned scores to 20 different drugs, including heroin, cocaine, Ecstasy, amphetamines, and LSD.

Heroin, cocaine, barbiturates and street methadone were ranked the most dangerous. Alcohol was the fifth most harmful drug and tobacco was the ninth most harmful. Neither marijuana nor Ecstasy made the top 10.

Tobacco causes 40 percent of all hospital illnesses, while alcohol is a factor in more than half of all visits to hospital emergency rooms.

[Oaktree]

I'm not disagreeing with your point that cigarettes and alcohol can also be harmful, but I'd like to point out that the bit about "impact on society of the use of the drug" is considerably higher than other drugs precisely because they are legal and socially condoned. Far more people use alcohol and cigarettes than use pot, crack, heroin, or any other illegal drug, so it is to be expected that the effects of alcohol and cigarettes would be greater.

[Clashfan]

I'm firmly in the camp for legalization for many reasons the biggest being medical usage. In fact there are all ready many states that allow the legal growing, distribution and use for medical marijuana.

There are many other ways to ingest the drug (THC) without smoking it. Eating it in some form is fairly widely known but it can also be reduced to a liquid that you would place a few drops under your tongue for it to enter your blood stream. There is also a way to vaporize it using a custom made vaporizer that has a small hose attached from which one would inhale the vapor. Note that vapor and smoke are not even close to the same thing however inhaling the fumes is the fastest way for the drug to enter your blood stream.

From a medical standpoint marijuana offers pain relief for many with crippling and terminal illnesses. For cancer patients it acts as a pain reliever but also it helps control the nausea and overall lack of appetite induced by chemotherapy. For MS patients in many cases it is the only relief they have for the torturous pain that effects their muscular system. The drug itself acts as a muscle relaxer so it's medical implications are fairly far reaching.

When comparing it to other pain killers used for the same conditions such as Oxycontin, Percocets or Morphine it is not addictive. You do not go through withdrawal symptoms if usage is stopped, you do not suffer from nightmares, cold sweats, hallucinations or any of the other myriad of fun filled symptoms that are part of serious withdrawal. You don't even under go the personality changes associated with withdrawal from nicotine.

As for the recreational usage well as many have said and as many studies have proven it is not as harmful as alcohol, not even close. The most harm recreational users generally come in contact with are having to acquire it illegally and the fact that it can be laced with another more harmful drug.

I do not advocate legalization without any restraints to where anyone could grow it for distribution but more of what already exists in California where they have to be licensed growers. The drug itself actually becomes safer and more effective when you have someone who knows what they are doing growing it.

Finally the plant itself is sort of a miracle plant and has many uses beyond just marijuana, cloth, rope and paper are just three items that spring to mind that can be produced from hemp. The growing of it is not as hard on the soil as cotton is, in manufacturing it does not produce much waste product.

The reason marijuana was initially made illegal in the first place, in the US anyway, was not because it was a psychotropic drug it was because the cotton industry lobbied heavily for it. In doing so they produced all sorts of propaganda about the drug itself such as the movie Reefer Madness, which is the biggest pile of crap I've ever seen.

It is not the big evil scary drug that it has been painted as. Most of the people I know that oppose it have never tried it and buy into the propaganda produced by the government. I'm not advocating that everyone goes out and gets high simply that if you have no personal experience with it then you really don't know what your talking about.

[Mr.Fry]

I'm not disagreeing with your point that cigarettes and alcohol can also be harmful, but I'd like to point out that the bit about "impact on society of the use of the drug" is considerably higher than other drugs precisely because they are legal and socially condoned. Far more people use alcohol and cigarettes than use pot, crack, heroin, or any other illegal drug, so it is to be expected that the effects of alcohol and cigarettes would be greater.

People use marijuana as much as they do cigarettes and alcohol... Its just not as broad casted as the use of cigarettes or alcohol because you can still get locked up for marijuana use.... and plus if marijuana did become legal it would be just like alcohol when they lifted the ban off of it:

One day its a big, huge deal and then the next day its part of society....

[Mr.Fry]

here is a chart i picked up from a website

This was a death toll that was recorded last year: 2010

Cardiovascular diseases-806,156
Malignant neoplasms-562,875
Motor Vehicle Crashes-43,945
Drug induced-38,371
Septicemia (infections)-34,828
Suicide-34,598
by Firearms-31,224
Accidental poisoning-29,846
Alcohol induced-23,199
Homicide-18,361
Human immunodeficiency virus (HIV)-11,295
Viral hepatitis-7,407
Cannabis (Marijuana) -0

[SuicidiaParasidia]

if it were legalized, id prefer something also be tacked on to the degree that it couldnt be smoked in certain places. my lungs have already been effected by second hand tobacco, and a genetic heart problem furthers my respiratory issues. smoke from weed makes me cough uncontrollably and if i dont get clean air relatively quickly i pass out.
it never makes me "happy" or "high", and quite frankly i believe it smells like the wrong end of a cow. same goes for cigarettes, too.

if i:
A) wouldnt have to endure it in enclosed public spaces (much like cigarettes)
B) didnt have to endure it in my home (places with poor insulation--currently the apartments i have allow for anything my neighbors smoke to drift in from their apartment into mine via the heater)
C) didnt have to deal with the people it effected (much like how you arent allowed to be obnoxiously drunk outside of a drinking establishment)
D) could have some sort of legal reassurance that drivers wouldnt be allowed to drive while under the influence of weed, as it does effect your reflexes which could be very dangerous

...i would say, go for it. and while youre at it, legalize everything else.
but then, i really dont care how people choose to kill themselves, as long as they dont try to drag me into it along with them.
ah, and, remember back when cigarettes were "healthy"? yeah. probably my biggest reason for not buying that "omg weed is harmless" crap until theyve researched the everliving hell out of it.

[Robodl95]

In my language drugs and medicine are two distinct, unrelated words. 'Narkotyk' is a drug (marijuana, hashish, etc.) and 'lekarstwo' is a medicine. 'Narktoyk' harms and 'lekarstwo' heals. Simple. When I say 'a drug' in English I only mean marijuana, hashish etc.
They're two words that mean the same thing. If you take prescription drugs/medicine when you're not supposed to or take too many then they will harm you, likewise marijuana has proven medical benefits. Kids overdosing on normal over the counter drugs like Tylenol are pretty common where I live.

[Mr.Fry]

if it were legalized, id prefer something also be tacked on to the degree that it couldnt be smoked in certain places. my lungs have already been effected by second hand tobacco, and a genetic heart problem furthers my respiratory issues. smoke from weed makes me cough uncontrollably and if i dont get clean air relatively quickly i pass out.
it never makes me "happy" or "high", and quite frankly i believe it smells like the wrong end of a cow. same goes for cigarettes, too.

Yes i agree if it is legal than it should have destinations where you could smoke it (like a Netherlands Coffee Shop [a.k.a weed smoking house]) and you probably have smell a danky type of strain of weed if it smells like cow "crap"

[Tempscire]

D) could have some sort of legal reassurance that drivers wouldnt be allowed to drive while under the influence of weed, as it does effect your reflexes which could be very dangerous
Driving after getting high can already get you a DUI. There's no reason they'd remove that if marijuana were legalized. I don't know what could be done preventatively since we haven't come up with foolproof ways of making sure no one drunk ever gets the behind wheel.

[Mr.Fry]

Driving after getting high can already get you a DUI. There's no reason they'd remove that if marijuana were legalized. I don't know what could be done preventatively since we haven't come up with foolproof ways of making sure no one drunk ever gets the behind wheel.

yeah there is always that problem impaired driving with any drugs....

[SuicidiaParasidia]

Driving after getting high can already get you a DUI. There's no reason they'd remove that if marijuana were legalized. I don't know what could be done preventatively since we haven't come up with foolproof ways of making sure no one drunk ever gets the behind wheel.

i didnt know that, but thanks for telling me.

[Mr.Fry]

Well im off to bed guys ill check this post later to give more info.....

[Oaktree]

People use marijuana as much as they do cigarettes and alcohol... Its just not as broad casted as the use of cigarettes or alcohol because you can still get locked up for marijuana use.... and plus if marijuana did become legal it would be just like alcohol when they lifted the ban off of it:

One day its a big, huge deal and then the next day its part of society....

Alcohol is used by nearly everyone (except Mormons and certain other religious sects) at some point, and usually on a regular basis. Cigarettes used to be a huge deal, though they are admittedly now unpopular and used less often. Many people who've used marijuana have tried it once or smoked it for a brief period during their lifetime and then given it up. Yes, there is a substantial group of people who make it a lifestyle, but not nearly to the degree that cigarettes and alcohol are adopted as a lifestyle choice.

I doubt that marijuana will ever be just like alcohol, partly because alcohol is so deeply ingrained in so many societies and partly because, given the unpopularity of smoking cigarettes and the fact that smoking marijuana can have many of the same respiratory effects, I doubt that smoking marijuana will be cool once the element of rebelling and doing something forbidden is taken away by legalization. I'm not saying that everyone does marijuana for that reason, but many young adopters of the drug pick it up for that reason and, as it starts to be recognized as something generally unhealthy and frowned upon by the majority, there will be peer pressure to not use marijuana.

I think using the argument that cigarettes and alcohol are just as bad or worse than marijuana is a bad strategy for arguing for legalization. Saying "these legal things will kill you more effectively than this illegal thing" does not assure your audience that the illegal thing will not kill them. I see so many proponents of legalization use this argument and it just ends up being annoying because it's paraded around like some sort of infallible shield against opponents when really it's just bad logic.

That said, I think marijuana should be legalized as a matter of personal freedom. I have no intention to ever use the stuff myself and I find it a disgusting habit, but I think you should be able to put disgusting things in your body if you want to and you're not hurting anyone else.

[Mr.Fry]

I see so many proponents of legalization use this argument and it just ends up being annoying because it's paraded around like some sort of infallible shield against opponents when really it's just bad logic.

That said, I think marijuana should be legalized as a matter of personal freedom. I have no intention to ever use the stuff myself and I find it a disgusting habit, but I think you should be able to put disgusting things in your body if you want to and you're not hurting anyone else.

yes arguing legalization can be bad logic IF thats your only defense on the subject because you will just use the same info over and over again.... My defense on the subject is legalization, health benefits, society benefits, economic benefits and its relation with other legal drugs and how less harmful it is....

But yes marijuana should also be legalized on a matter of personal freedom just like you said...

p.s. marijuana is not as disgusting as some of the food and other stuff we put in our bodies daily but that is a different thread that i might start :P

[Elyasis]

I'm pro-legalization with some restraints. And definitely against jail sentences for possession at the very least. If nothing else it keeps otherwise good people from being put in a system that enforces illegal behavior more than curtailing it. Besides, shouldn't we be putting people in jail only if they pose a danger to others and not just (arguably) their self? Illegal distribution should also be cracked down instead of some poor schmuck who forgot to hide his weed. It's definitely listed improperly in the drug classification levels as well. It's no where near as serious a drug as it's made out to be. But neither is it completely safe. However that shouldn't be and isn't a very good reason for it's current illegality. I'm sorry but it'd have to pose a clear danger to anyone who uses it or is around those who use it for me to consider it worthy of outlawing.

[Mr.Fry]

And definitely against jail sentences for possession at the very least. If nothing else it keeps otherwise good people from being put in a system that enforces illegal behavior more than curtailing it. Besides, shouldn't we be putting people in jail only if they pose a danger to others and not just (arguably) their self?

I agree with that statement 100 %.. why waste jail space on a local weed smoker who wasnt doing any harm besides minding his own business


Illegal distribution should also be cracked down instead of some poor schmuck who forgot to hide his weed.
once again i agree with this statement :up:

[acid_paradox]

I think that all drugs should be legal. Yes, all, including cocaine, heroin, and others. This entire war on drugs is stupid, the government needs to realize that if people want drugs, they -will- find some way to get them. I mean, if people want to make stupid decisions just let them make those decisions. Why should we care?

[Mr.Fry]

I think that all drugs should be legal. Yes, all, including cocaine, heroin, and others. This entire war on drugs is stupid, the government needs to realize that if people want drugs, they -will- find some way to get them. I mean, if people want to make stupid decisions just let them make those decisions. Why should we care?

but not all drugs have as good of a helping effect as marijuana though.... alot of drugs (crack,coke, heroin, speed, lsd, shrooms) are very dangerous in small amounts... so if it was legal than people could / would get a hold of large amounts and kill themselves.... plus crack and meth labs do alot of harm to the enviroment

[Tempscire]

alot of drugs (crack,coke, heroin, speed, lsd, shrooms) are very dangerous in small amounts... so if it was legal than people could / would get a hold of large amounts and kill themselves....
I don't think shrooms are actually that dangerous in and of themselves; the danger is making sure the mushroom type is not poisonous... Those drugs are all currently illegal, yet people still can/do get hold of large amounts and kill themselves. (Or get hold of large amounts and not kill themselves because they have self-control.) They could be treated as prescription drugs are, at least in terms of limited amounts to be purchased at one time, come with literature on over-use/abuse and the expected effects, etc. Distribution could be monopolized or at least coordinated so that once you purchase XYZ, it'll show up in the system and you'll be prevented from purchasing again too soon. (Though personally I think even that would be a bit restrictive, and for all you know someone's trying to get more for their friends to partake-- it's not like we assume people buying 20-packs of beer are alcoholics about to drink themselves to death.)

Part of the danger of illegal drugs as well is the uncertainty of their content. For all you know, the cocaine you just got is laced with god-knows-what for the seller to make more profit. It's not like there's any testing for quality control.

[Mr.Fry]

alot of people dont even buy drugs like crack or coke from a dealer alot anymore when you can go to walmart and buy the ingredients to make it

[Clashfan]

alot of people dont even buy drugs like crack or coke from a dealer alot anymore when you can go to walmart and buy the ingredients to make it

What? Cocaine is made from the leaves of the coca plant which is commonly grown in S. America. Crack is a derivative of cocaine. So, not sure how you could buy the stuff to make it at Walmart.

Are you sure your not thinking of crystal meth? That's made from pseudoephedrine which used to be commonly found in over the counter decongestants. Now it's a controlled substance and you have to show valid ID and get it from the pharmacist. You can also only buy a maximum of 15 doses. I know this as an allergy sufferer and I use an antihistamine combined with pseudoephedrine so I have to subject myself to this every two weeks.

[Mr.Fry]

Cocaine is made from the leaves of the coca plant which is commonly grown in S. America. Crack is a derivative of cocaine. So, not sure how you could buy the stuff to make it at Walmart.

oh no meant to say you can buy the other ingredient to make crack (baking soda) from walmart... I know cocaine comes from the coca leaf (which is illegal in u.s.) and you would have to go online and buy the leaves from a certain website (which i will NOT post here due to kids reading these forms)

[acid_paradox]

but not all drugs have as good of a helping effect as marijuana though.... alot of drugs (crack,coke, heroin, speed, lsd, shrooms) are very dangerous in small amounts... so if it was legal than people could / would get a hold of large amounts and kill themselves.... plus crack and meth labs do alot of harm to the enviroment

Yeah, but people still buy and make them. I know that marijuana has a lot of useful medical properties, I currently self-medicate because I have found that it helps with my mental illnesses a lot. People get into the more harmful drugs in the first place because they are illegal, it's some kind of "forbidden fruit" effect. If they were decriminalized, it wouldn't be seen as "cool" to get into those drugs anymore and hopefully more people would wise up. Also, I'm pretty sure you can't OD on acid.

[Mr.Fry]

People get into the more harmful drugs in the first place because they are illegal, it's some kind of "forbidden fruit" effect. If they were decriminalized, it wouldn't be seen as "cool" to get into those drugs anymore and hopefully more people would wise up.

yeah that is how it was when alcohol was banned and then unbanned..............

I'm pretty sure you can't OD on acid.

I mean you can overdose on anything (even water if taken in high amounts)
but i would think you would have to take probably tens of thousands of times as much as a normal dose to actually make you OD on it.... but most likely you would just take enough to have a bad trip

[Nekowolf]

"yeah that is how it was when alcohol was banned and then unbanned"

I have to disagree here. Alcohol has been an integral part of human society since its discovery. It's universal. You must remember during the times of the Prohibition, things that are now considered as illegal substances were widely consumed, as well. You could find heroin, cocaine, etc. and there were no laws against them; hell, in fact, do you know the story of Coca-Cola? Do you know why it's named that? Because, one of the original main ingredients was cocaine. And heroin, well, it was sold as a medical drug by Bayer. And let's not get into some of the other "remedies" of the time.

Alcohol has always been part of the culture of every civilization to stand in this world. Things like cocaine and heroin were thought to be medical (which isn't entirely untrue). But alcohol, that was something special. It was something everyone could afford, or even make yourself if you wanted (though that was still illegal? I'm not too sure). It was something so widespread, so ingrained in our culture and lifestyle, from thousands of years of use, across every corner of the globe. It may also help to understand the politics behind the Prohibition. If anyone more associated with history would please correct me, I'd appreciate it, but the passing of Prohibition came as a bit of a surprise, I think. You see, it has major support behind women's groups. But, it also had support from the Klan, and others from all over the demographical spectrum. Congress even went as far as to overturn a presidential veto. However, once it was enacted, criminal organizations flourished as they got into bootlegging, and Prohibition eventually became utterly despised. Don't know what you have until it's gone, I suppose you could say.

Now, yes, the same effect has happened in modern times from the "war on drugs." But, their knowledge of what drugs do like cocaine and heroin were not as extensive as today. Today, we know, that these hard drugs will fuck you up bad. I may hate the "war on drugs" but, I do think hard drugs such as heroin and cocaine should be illegal. That's because, with drugs like these, there is no safe dosage, there is no safety from addiction. They are very dangerous to consume in any amount. Pot isn't on the same level; do I think in the end, it's bad for you? Yeah. But it's not like these other ones here. You can argue they're "forbidden fruit," and that may be true, but it seems woefully simplistic. There must be, like everything else, a myraid of other factors that could, should, be addressed first before declaring them legal. Frankly, I think the lesson here is; strict illegalization and enforcement does not work. However, altering the circumstances around the desire of consumption may be much more effective.

EDIT:

"I mean you can overdose on anything (even water if taken in high amounts)"

I have to say this. That seems like an argument of semantics. It's very hard to "overdose" on water, like pot. You basically have to consume so much water that your kidneys are unable to process it. That is so utterly stupid to drink that much; in that one case in California, it was over six liters in three hours. Who would honestly ever drink that much unless they were sick, or in a desert? Hard drugs are easy to overdose on, however. It's harder to die from alcohol poisoning than it is overdosing on hard (or even medical) drugs.

[Clashfan]

Also, I'm pretty sure you can't OD on acid.

If it's pure liquid LSD your right you can't. Most of the "bad" trips people can experience come from something that's been added to it or from someone making a bad batch of it.

Most LSD around today is in blotter form which is mixed with speed to add longevity and cut with strychnine (rat poison) to add potency. So I suppose it would be possible to OD on blotter acid but I can't imagine the amount you would have to take in order to do so.

When you read about some of the parties back in the 60's/70's where they would spike a bowl of punch with acid, well that would have been the straight liquid they used.

[Mr.Fry]

Hey guys lets not travel off of the main subject: Marijuana: Should it be legal or not??

[fantasysims]

***Disclaimer*** I am very strongly against drugs... Thanks to my family keeping me sheltered my whole life. Blah.

I feel like if MJ ever becomes legal, more people will try it... and ultimately more people will become addicted.

Lets just add more to the list then of legalized addictive drugs, cigs, alcahol, MJ...? Why not legalize them all! I'm sure people will get that mentality, and want the next drug down the line legalized as well after that... && thats a really scary thought for me.

As much as I want to say yes on this subject because I believe people have a right to their own choices... I'm going to say no :( No, I don't think it should be legalized.

I have never seen, or done MJ (or any kind of weird drug)... & want to keep my innocence of not knowing what any of that stuff is about... I also want the same for my future kids some day.

I don't want to walk into a Walmart and see that they sell paraphernalia? (sp) the thought is so saddening, and I would just break down.

***Like my mom told me before, "That's the stuff that people who do not like their life use".

ME: 20yo girl with a brain. never seen, never tried, and never will.

[Shoosh Malooka]

Listen, the smell of marijuana is all a cop needs to pull some anti-police rebel criminals out of their car to have a look at their ID's. You mean to tell me that it isn't entertaining that someone who thinks they are 'outsmarting' the police gets their ass caught from their own arrogance? You want to take away a valid reason for police to search a vehicle, scan for warrants, and evidence of other crimes? Let me guess, you are a pot-smoker yourself and you think that an era of harmony would spark if the entire world got high at the same time?

Oh yeah, keep sharing the love. You're on an adventure. Take that bong rip and stick it to the squares, student of life. That Art 101 class you failed will still be there next semester, pusilanimite.

[ElementMK]

I feel like if MJ ever becomes legal, more people will try it... and ultimately more people will become addicted.Maybe you have a point about more people trying pot if it were legalized.

As for addiction, however (http://www.procon.org/view.background-resource.php?resourceID=1492) ...

EDIT: Is it general policy that threads with banned OPs are locked, or am I just imagining things?

[fantasysims]

Maybe you have a point about more people trying pot if it were legalized.

As for addiction, however (http://www.procon.org/view.background-resource.php?resourceID=1492) ...

EDIT: Is it general policy that threads with banned OPs are locked, or am I just imagining things?

Yes. I already understand this... -.- And I still hold my case.

[fantasysims]

I detest everything all psychoactive substances because they have too much influence on our behavior and body. That's why I don't drink alcohol at all and have never and will never try any drugs no matter how dangerous or 'safe' they are.


Your awesome. :]

Its crazy the amount of respect I give to some one for saying something like that.

[fantasysims]

&& I pity the crap outta you and your family.
Have a decent life! :D

[HystericalParoxysm]

fantasysims - Being rude and insulting toward other posters is completely unacceptable. You are welcome to your opinion but the way you have expressed it is not okay. Do not post on this thread again.

[Sunbee]

In the US, we experimented once with outlawing alcohol. The Mob got wealthy. Now we're doing the same thing with illegal drugs--enriching those who distribute them. Why? Are we that incapable of learning from our past experiences? (I think a really good attorney could overturn the drug laws--if it required a constitutional amendment to ban alcohol, then surely that sets a president for how to ban any other substance.)
I'm inclined to say legalize it all, tax the heck out of it like with cigarettes, and use the taxes for treatment programs. Maybe require anyone purchasing the more dangerous drugs to show proof of medical insurance that will cover incapacitation from the drug. If you want to use meth, have insurance that will pay for your care if/when you become disabled from it. That seems reasonable.
I wouldn't use marijuana any more than I'd use tobacco. I don't think most people would--but if they did, I don't see any way it would harm me or mine. I do agree with whoever it was who said we need a better system to protect apartment dwellers from their neighbors--but that doesn't only apply to second hand smoke, and some states have better tenant laws than others. My state's need improvement. Maybe when my kids are bigger I'll become an activist in that area.
As far as psychoactive substances go, you can't avoid them all. Ordinary foods do have an effect on you. Do some research on table sugar--sucrose, and corn sugar--fructose, and the effects those can have on the human brain. Coffee, tea, chocolate, all have effects. Some people need to avoid them entirely, some do not.

[hIIh]

Those who say alcohol is different because of the history, marijuana has been a part of culture since 2700 B.C. While this may not have been the 9000 we all point at for beer, it still is longer than you, I and the politician- who couldn't figure out four straight minutes of pure smoke might kill brain cells all on its own- have lived. In addition, we have receptors specifically for cannabinoids, can't say that for alcohol. After all, your body wants to kill alcohol, not a friendly reception.
For those who say it's dangerous and a gateway drug, it's only dangerous and a gateway because of those selling it. I have never had a clerk say, 'you sure you just want those vitamins? I got some nice Ibuprofen over here.' Really, not once. Also, I think you shouldn't have to have a license to get it, but you should to grow and sell. It shouldn't just be for those who need it. Recreational is a synonym of relaxation; relaxation lowers stress thus a slew of diseases. So isn't it preventative medication? o.O

[morphius1]

Yes, it should be. Andit will be....one day.

[paksetti]

It seems like you can't really defend your position on marijuana without sounding like you've got an agenda- whatever.

I believe adults are smart enough to make their own decisions, and that marijuana in and of itself (granted someone doesn't have an allergy) isn't harmful. Yeah, there are people who just sit around the house all day every day and smoke, but that's just escaping responsibility. It seems like a lot of people that are really opposed to the legalization or marijuana are either misinformed or full of goo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=61Ol1ICvqKY#t=69s).


(Yea, I know that some people oppose for good reasons. That smoke of any kind is carcinogenic, for example. Or that regulating it would be a pain in the dick... I guess.)

[Mistermook]

Eh, I don't think regulation would be that hard. Everyone can pretty much grow their own onions, but they mostly don't. As long as pot growers didn't price themselves into industriousness over laziness, I'm thinking assertive marketing and such would win over "Dude, I totally grew this next to my toilet!"

As for things like meth, if I were going to legalize it I'd keep really, really harsh penalties for making it yourself, and just phase the meth shiners into prison in favor of corporate and micro meth. The problem with drugs, beyond the obvious, is that only criminals sell it. But business majors generally outshine other sorts of criminals in the long run. Any dick can sell some weed, it takes skill to take it further than that.

[KKiryu007Joker]

I am strongly against marijuana, have never used it, but have known about twenty people (probably more) who have. I believe it is a health hazard, especially to teenagers and children. Parents become addicted to other drugs as well as marijuana, and I believe they eventually spread their addictions to their children which cause health risks.

[DigitalSympathies]

I'm for the legalisation of marijuana. Having lived in places where it's widely used as a treatment for many ailments, I don't see why it's illegal in the first place except for those who do abuse it. If it were regulated and if the people were educated, it would be safer to use and more people would know the benefits of it. My boyfriend's family uses it, I've tried it once for a headache a few years ago, it's not all that bad of an experience. Making it illegal just counteracts the point.

[Oaktree]

Parents become addicted to other drugs as well as marijuana, and I believe they eventually spread their addictions to their children which cause health risks.

Just to throw an anecdote out there: my parents have been heavy smokers for over 20 years, and I've never so much as taken a drag of a cigarette. More generally, children often strike out away from their parents' behaviors. Children are actually more influenced by their peers than their parents (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1549711/Children-learn-most-from-peers-not-parents.html). Further, marijuana is not a gateway drug (http://scienceblog.com/12116/study-says-marijuana-no-gateway-drug/). Those who would have done harder drugs, would do so without the influence of marijuana, and those who would not, are not going to change their opinions on harder stuff just because they tried marijuana. There are plenty of people who use marijuana and never touch the harder stuff.

[paksetti]

You would think that alcohol would actually be more of a "gateway drug" as it's more accessible. You can just walk into certain stores without an ID and buy it if you look old enough. Or just steal it from your parents. I'm pretty sure that more households have alcohol or tobacco than marijuana.


Apparently, alcohol, tobacco, inhalants and marijuana are considered "gateway drugs", though I'm not really sure I like that term. Just whatever happens to make it's way to you first. I went to a pretty shitty highschool and a ton of the kids did cheese (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheese_(recreational_drug)), or at least sold it. Had I been dumber, that probably would have been my "gateway drug". I guess in the strictest sense, mine was a holiday beer on Christmas from my mom when I was 12. (Needless to say, I do metric shittons of random drugs almost all the time now.)

Or actually- dunno. Maybe my gateway drug was cough syrup. Once I overdosed on that stuff when I was a kid and tripped balls and puked all night. It might have been the fever though. I've never intentionally been on a robotrip so I don't really have a good frame of reference.

[Hammerhead Eagle i-Thrust]

I definitely agree about peers shaping the way you think more than parents. It's not even about your peers telling you what to do or anything, it's just about finally making your own decisions even if your knowledge of the world is absurdly limited.

As far as pot, people are always going to want to chase a heightened emotional state. Drugs, driving fast, aggressive behavior or even more mundane things like spending time with your hunny or playing video games are things that even when faced with the possibility of prosecution and physical harm people are still going to do. It just feels too good. And when compared to what's already legally available, pot... pfft not so harmful.

[KKiryu007Joker]

Just to throw an anecdote out there: my parents have been heavy smokers for over 20 years, and I've never so much as taken a drag of a cigarette. More generally, children often strike out away from their parents' behaviors. Children are actually more influenced by their peers than their parents (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1549711/Children-learn-most-from-peers-not-parents.html). Further, marijuana is not a gateway drug (http://scienceblog.com/12116/study-says-marijuana-no-gateway-drug/). Those who would have done harder drugs, would do so without the influence of marijuana, and those who would not, are not going to change their opinions on harder stuff just because they tried marijuana. There are plenty of people who use marijuana and never touch the harder stuff.

Who do you think their peers consist of? They're just more drug addicts.

[Hammerhead Eagle i-Thrust]

Who do you think their peers consist of? They're just more drug addicts.
Ooh... shits about to get REAL
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/images/smilies/avoid.gif

[KKiryu007Joker]

Well I don't see the problem with it being used for medical purposes, I just think it can lead to other drugs, cause problems, and that children or teenagers get access to it too easily.

[paksetti]

Pff. You're silly. I don't think you fully understand what addiction is or the difference between "medical" use and "recreational" use. There are people who really do find that marijuana is the best drug for them to help them eat after chemotherapy, alleviate pain, or to reduce pressure in the eyes. But here's the thing, it's not dangerous to people that don't have cancer, or AIDS, or glaucoma- in fact, it can be very therapeutic.

Yes, consuming marijuana all day every day is bad for you, because you're just using it to escape all day every day. But it's not physically addictive. However, people can by psychologically "addicted" to marijuana. For example, say you'd normally smoke 3-4 times a week after a bad day at work. You'd be high for a couple of hours then just go to bed feeling pleasant. Then for whatever you decided you wanted to stop smoking. So the next time you had a bad day at work, you'd want to smoke to get out of your shitty mood- partly out of habit and partly because feeling shitty isn't so much fun. People can certainly use marijuana, or anything that gives them a "good" feeling as a crutch, and taking that away can feel like there's a hole missing. I'm sure you'd feel kinda crabby if something you liked was just suddenly taken away from you.

That's not to say people don't build up a tolerance for the stuff- their bodies just get used to having it in their system. Nothing bad happens to their body if it were just suddenly taken away.



There are always underlying causes of addiction. People don't just turn to hard drugs because they're bored of marijuana. When someone feels bad, they want to do something to make themselves feel good, and in the extreme cases of addiction to say, heroin, a person will keep using not to feel happy, but to just feel "normal". Addiction is not something to be taken lightly, and quite honestly, when I hear someone say they know someone who is "addicted" to marijuana, it's pretty ridiculous.


But hey, you know of a drug that children and adults all over the world use often that is known to be physically addictive and can cause withdrawal in heavy users? Caffeine.

[KKiryu007Joker]

Pff. You're silly. I don't think you fully understand what addiction is or the difference between "medical" use and "recreational" use. There are people who really do find that marijuana is the best drug for them to help them eat after chemotherapy, alleviate pain, or to reduce pressure in the eyes. But here's the thing, it's not dangerous to people that don't have cancer, or AIDS, or glaucoma- in fact, it can be very therapeutic.

Yes, consuming marijuana all day every day is bad for you, because you're just using it to escape all day every day. But it's not physically addictive. However, people can by psychologically "addicted" to marijuana. For example, say you'd normally smoke 3-4 times a week after a bad day at work. You'd be high for a couple of hours then just go to bed feeling pleasant. Then for whatever you decided you wanted to stop smoking. So the next time you had a bad day at work, you'd want to smoke to get out of your shitty mood- partly out of habit and partly because feeling shitty isn't so much fun. People can certainly use marijuana, or anything that gives them a "good" feeling as a crutch, and taking that away can feel like there's a hole missing. I'm sure you'd feel kinda crabby if something you liked was just suddenly taken away from you.

That's not to say people don't build up a tolerance for the stuff- their bodies just get used to having it in their system. Nothing bad happens to their body if it were just suddenly taken away.



There are always underlying causes of addiction. People don't just turn to hard drugs because they're bored of marijuana. When someone feels bad, they want to do something to make themselves feel good, and in the extreme cases of addiction to say, heroin, a person will keep using not to feel happy, but to just feel "normal". Addiction is not something to be taken lightly, and quite honestly, when I hear someone say they know someone who is "addicted" to marijuana, it's pretty ridiculous.


But hey, you know of a drug that children and adults all over the world use often that is known to be physically addictive and can cause withdrawal in heavy users? Caffeine.

GODDAMNIT I WAS HALF ASLEEP LAST NIGHT! :rofl: I'm not even sure what I was saying. Aaah! I know marijuana is not physically addictive, I know the laws about it, etc. Actually I think it should be legal for two reasons: it is controlled, and it is used for medical purposes.

[Johnny_Bravo]

I actually don't understand what's wrong with marihuana, it makes you calmer (or really high). Man and woman understand each other better after a joint. I can understand that's it's diturbing for people when you smoke it in public... maybe they should do it like in the Netherlands: Coffeeshops. Where you're allowed to buy and smoke it.

[HystericalParoxysm]

Seems to work fine here. Hell, there's a coffee shop about four doors down from me on the corner of the street where I just moved to, and it's no big deal. I sure as hell prefer it to a pub a few doors down, that's for damn sure.

[crocobaura]

I wonder what would the world have been like today if people would have decided to produce on a large scale and smoke marijuana instead of tobacco. Or rather why did they choose tobacco over marijuana.

[HystericalParoxysm]

Well, the psychological effects of marijuana vs. tobacco are very, very different. When you first start smoking tobacco, you do feel sort of... different, but it's nothing like the feeling from marijuana. And after you've been smoking tobacco for a while, you don't really notice that "different" feeling as much. It's more of a "buzz" than a "high" and it's not nearly as striking a difference from normal as with marijuana. Even your most dedicated pot smokers usually don't smoke as much (both in sheer volume, or as often) as heavy tobacco users. I wouldn't call them comparable, even though they are both smokeable plants.

[Fethre]

I believe it should be legal (in America) as it is in some other countries as well as think there should be Sim Related content for it.

[iCad]

Ah, thread necromancy. But...Hey, it's become a more active topic again, at least here in the States.

And it IS now legal for recreational use where I live in the US, in Colorado. I believe it's also legal in Washington state now. Neither state has exploded or turned into a drug den full of weed zombies yet. There are stipulations, of course: You have to be 21+. You can only keep a certain amount on your person, you can't smoke anywhere in public, you can only grow a certain number of plants for personal use and you can't sell what you grow, etc., but other than that...legal. Woo! I'm decriminalized!

In my perfect world, marijuana would be fully legal and nicotine and alcohol would be criminalized. (Yeah, I know the latter didn't work very well when it was tried in the US. I'm talking an idealized world here, not the real one. :) ) Marijuana has proven medical benefits and no known deleterious side effects. Both alcohol and nicotine WILL kill you or at the very least will damage you, possibly severely, and, so far as I can tell, neither has any medical benefit aside from alcohol's use as an antiseptic. But that's when you pour it onto yourself, not into yourself. And, in the case of alcohol, it kills other people, too, when it comes to drunk driving. (Sure, it's not advisable to drive when you've smoked weed, but most people I know don't insist on doing it because weed doesn't cause the same kind of delusions about your capacity that alcohol will.) And yeah, I know the "it leads to doing other drugs" argument but, frankly, I know of no one, personally (and I know A LOT of people who smoke, myself included), who's ever started smoking pot and then moved on thinking it'd be a good idea to use, say, heroin. Or meth. Why? Mostly because people are smart and realize that that stuff'll kill you/destroy your life. So most of us, whether we smoke weed or not, have the good sense to say, "Um, yeah, not going there." Fully legalizing marijuana for adult use isn't going to change that, I don't think.

So...Yeah, that's my ideal. Marijuana yay, nicotine/alcohol nay. But in the meantime, people who live in Colorado want their weed, dangit, so we went and made it so. :)

[RoboArtist]

Well there is a reason people illegalized it... And it is legal for medical use and so is cannabis. Maybe I guess we should legalize it for a year or so and see how things turn out

[grammapat]

There IS a new study out (which I can't find at moment) about even small doses and effect on teens. Seems some brain development still going on (temporal/reasoning?) at that age is damaged.
Other than age restrictions, I believe in FEDERAL legalization, and federal and state regulation & taxation. Oh, such a radical! I also believe in legalized (therefore licensed, taxed, and regulated) prostitution.

[VerDeTerre]

The thing I see is that someone will get high and remain that way for hours at a time. Would legalization mean that your bus driver is high? I'm not comfortable with that. Nor do I enjoy conversations with those who are stoned nor the paranoia from people who smoke too much for too long, even when they are no longer "under the influence". The argument that "people are going to do it anyway, so we may as well regulate it" doesn't fly because people are going to rape, murder, and steal anyway, too. Who gets hurt in this case? I think a lot of us in an way that is not easy to pinpoint just as the effects of long term use of marijuana are not easy to describe, but are certainly there. It does mess with brain chemistry. It can lead to depression. I have very mixed feelings about all of this.

Legalizing it for medical use makes sense. I think legalizing it overall will end the 'War on Drugs' which hasn't been overly successful and has lead to all sorts of other problems. I'm worried that legalizing it will encourage more people to get stoned. I don't enjoy stoned people or even the aftereffect of stoned people. I wonder how it will be regulated. What can they do to stop a stoned driver from driving his bus? (It's only one example).

[paksetti]

Make it illegal for him to do so, and enforce penalties if he does. Granted, it won't stop 100% of bus drivers from driving under the influence, but they seem to be able to control themselves just fine with alcohol, at least I've never had a drunk bus driver.

Legalizing it won't make everything a free-for-all, it is still a drug, after all.

[GnatGoSplat]

I have no problems with legalizing marijuana. I have no experience with it, or even tobacco for that matter. I haven't the desire for either, nor the ability to understand why others have the desire, and that goes for alcohol as well. However, everything I've read seems to indicate marijuana's effects are less harmful than alcohol. I seldom (virtually never) hear about traffic fatalities due to someone driving under the influence of marijuana, or marijuana fueling rage or depression that causes someone to assault or cause harm to another person or themselves. I do read stories about the influence of alcohol being attributed to both traffic fatalities and violence on a daily basis. So if alcohol is legal as a recreational drug, why shouldn't marijuana be?

I haven't put a lot of thought into it so this may be a stupid idea, but I think all drugs should be legalized - with caveats. I propose we should build drug use facilities where a drug user can go to legally purchase and use the more serious of the illegal drugs ("hard drugs", like cocaine, NOT pot, alcohol, or tobacco). These facilities would have the legal right (and obligation) to force the drug user to remain in the facility until such a time that they are determined to be sober by a medical professional. The facility would be fully staffed with counselors to help people with their addictions, doctors who administer "safe" dosages of the drugs and monitor users' vital signs, and big burly guards with non-lethal weapons to ensure people don't leave before the doctors determine the user is sober and to make sure nobody gets out of hand while high. Using these "hard drugs" outside of said facility would result in severe consequences, and the facilities would be the only places these "hard drugs" could be purchased legally. The facilities and staff salaries would be funded by the drug sales. Although such facilities could be privatized and subject to government regulations and high taxes on drug sales, I tend to think that would result in corruption, perhaps with staff trying to keep people addicted rather than weaning them of their addiction, so I think it's better if such facilities were government-run.

[iCad]

What can they do to stop a stoned driver from driving his bus? (It's only one example).

Simple. Make rules that they can't do so and hold the drivers accountable for their actions. Signs of impairment are quite obvious. (And I should say that marijuana is far, FAR less impairing than even moderate alcohol intake, a level of alcohol intake where the signs actually aren't so blazingly obvious.) Here in CO, where marijuana is legal for recreational use, bus drivers and other people who are responsible for other people's safety are not allowed to use marijuana (or alcohol) within a certain number of hours (8, I think) of the time they go to work, so that any effects of the use have worn off by the time they report to work. Individual workplaces can set the same rules, at their discretion. Just like they can (and do) regarding alcohol. If employees break the rules, they get fired. Sure, some people will choose to break the rules, anyway. But most do not. How many accidents involving drunk bus drivers have you heard about?

Believe it or not, MOST people have self-control. ESPECIALLY with marijuana because it doesn't have the affect of making you think you're not impaired. And, it is less addictive than alcohol, too. So, that makes it far easier to control yourself than it does to control yourself when high (and it IS high, even though we don't call it that) on alcohol because the effects of the two drugs are very different.

Yes, marijuana alters brain/body chemistry. Guess what? So does drinking a cup of coffee or tea, especially certain types of tea. So does eating certain foods. So does not getting a full nights' sleep. "Chemistry" is affected by a vast number of things, some of them far more serious and "mood altering" than marijuana's effects. In my experience, the effects of marijuana are more ephemeral than the effects of pretty much any other drug I've used. I've never used anything illegal other than marijuana, so by saying that, I'm talking about things like many over-the-counter drugs. For me, a few drags of weed works better to suppress a cough than does a hit of NyQuil or other OTC or prescription cough suppressants AND is far less impairing in that the weed doesn't make me drowsy.

But yes, you're right in that it doesn't agree with some people. Different drugs work differently on different people because we all have unique chemistries and we all tend to prefer to feel a certain way. Some people don't like the way they feel after using marijuana...so they stop using it. (And they can do so easily because it's not highly addictive, physically.) I've known some unpleasant potheads, yes, but I've known a massively larger number of unpleasant drunks. In my experience, most people who become unpleasant on marijuana (at least if they aren't just unpleasant people in general; you must take that into account) tend to quit using because most people don't actually enjoy being unpleasant. (Unlike with alcohol, you don't lose the ability to recognize that you're being an ass.) I have heard of some people feeling depressed when using, yes. Again, those people tend to be people who prefer stimulants (like massive amounts of caffeine, for instance, not necessarily "hard" stuff like cocaine). Marijuana mellows you (and, like someone else said, doesn't cause the uncontrollable rage that alcohol can cause/exacerbate in some people) and "slows you down." That freaks some people out...so they stop using it. Because, again, they can.

Finally, the argument that legalizing marijuana encourages people to use it bothers me. It's like those who argue against gay marriage rights by arguing that it will make everyone "want to be gay." It's just completely nonsensical. For one thing, most people will choose not use drugs of ANY kind to the point of impairment on a daily basis, unless they are addicted to something. Alcohol is highly addictive. Nicotine is highly addictive. Caffeine is highly addictive. (And these ever-more-powerful "energy" drinks they keep making are, to me, disturbing, especially because kids drink them and massive amounts of caffeine are known to cause, for instance, heart arrhythmias...just like cocaine.) These are all drugs, all legal, all have the proven potential to cause great physical harm when used to excess...and marijuana is less physically addictive than all three of them and much less damaging overall than alcohol and nicotine. Where's the sense in that? (The answer is that there IS no sense. Alcohol and tobacco in particular have HUGE political lobbies working for them, is all.) Frankly, I tend to think that something that's illegal has a "forbidden fruit" aspect to it that makes people want it. ESPECIALLY kids/teens who want to be "rebellious." (Of course, I doubt that marijuana will ever be made legal for kids/teens to use -- and I don't think it should be, with a few exceptions -- so legalizing it for adult use will likely have no net effect on underage use, just as with alcohol.)

Note: I'm not saying that marijuana is completely benign. It IS a drug, and it IS possible to become addicted to it. (Although over 90% of people who use it do not become addicted, which is less than the same percentage for alcohol and nicotine. Of course, with alcohol, one can be very impaired on a regular basis without necessarily being addicted. It's a lot harder to become really impaired on marijuana, mostly because most people who use it don't feel a need to be impaired. The point of using it isn't to become impaired...and I can't say the same for alcohol.) What I'm saying is that it's a far less powerful and/or addictive drug than many substances that ARE legal and some that aren't even controlled, like drugs sold over-the-counter. Yes, it needs to be used responsibly and probably only by adults. (Although my daughter, who's almost 16, smokes occasionally. She has some chronic pain, lingering affects of the fact that she was born very prematurely. She smokes when it's particularly bad, but feels no need to do so at all otherwise. She has a medical marijuana card, so she can legally smoke even though she's underage. And I'm FAR more comfortable with her doing that than with the idea of her taking the narcotics that her doctors always want to push on her. Aside from the fact that the narcotics are highly addictive, they turn her into a grouchy zombie; the weed turns her into a less-grouchy, less-in-pain person.) Here in CO, as I said, there are restrictions and I think they're fair ones and have no problem with them. I just can't see the logical justification for making/keeping marijuana illegal when we freely let people over 21 get smashed out of their brains as often as they want. And in public, no less.

[Darby]

Marijuana should absolutely be legal, by virtue of the simple fact that it's a plant, and it just does not make sense to my brain, or suit my ideology, to have a government tell me I can't grow a plant, or that I can't smoke whatever the hell I want to smoke.

Tell me I can't do certain things while under the influence that would affect the immediate safety of others, certainly. But don't tell me I can't grow a plant and smoke it in the privacy of my home or someone else's. Or even in public, as long as I'm not getting behind the wheel afterward.

For the record, I don't think a heavy, regular pot-smoking habit (or drinking habit, sugar-eating habit, staying up late all the time habit, whatever) is a good idea, and I've only ever smoked pot twice myself, eons ago. But I support what I consider a basic right of all people to grow things and smoke things, whether it's smart or not.

I don't feel the same about harder drugs. Opium is plant-derived, but I don't think smoking a poppy flower would have quite the same effect as smoking the refined product. NOT a basic right to practice turning natural substances into something extremely harmful that offers no benefits, then distribute it.

Whether or not legalization of harder drugs would be more harmful or more helpful, I really don't know, but the thought makes me uneasy.

[iCad]

Marijuana should absolutely be legal, by virtue of the simple fact that it's a plant, and it just does not make sense to my brain, or suit my ideology, to have a government tell me I can't grow a plant, or that I can't smoke whatever the hell I want to smoke.

I very much agree with this (But then, I'm politically Libertarian in leanings, so I would :) ), and I think the same should perhaps apply to the coca plant. Producing cocaine in its concentrated, crystallized form is indeed a chemical process, same as making opium or heroin or what-have-you from poppy seeds, but you can get a buzz from chewing coca leaves. It's a nice buzz, actually, and the leaves are tasty. Good as or in tea, too. Helps with dealing with the altitude when you're up in the Andes. Certainly helped me haul my ass to Macchu Picchu when I was down in Peru. And it would probably help here in the Rockies, too, if one goes up beyond the altitude to which one has adapted. However, I believe that possessing coca leaves is illegal in the US, or at least that the legality is blurry unless you're Coca-Cola, because obviously you intend to make cocaine out of them. *eye roll* (Yes, that was sarcasm. :) ) Yet, you can grow all the poppies you want. Curious, that...

[VerDeTerre]

We can't even stop people from texting while they drive. I don't hold much hope of stopping those with impaired judgement from getting behind the wheel or from doing other jobs that require them to be alert and in full command of their reasoning functions. It's taken a long time to get people to admit that their judgement is impaired under the influence of alcohol and, overall, that hasn't been overly successful. I guess the real question for me is, how many will take up pot and behave irresponsibly if it is legalized? Also, will there be a change in the behavior of those who already use pot? Will more and better studies come about regarding it's effects?

[crocobaura]

I very much agree with this (But then, I'm politically Libertarian in leanings, so I would :) ), and I think the same should perhaps apply to the coca plant. Producing cocaine in its concentrated, crystallized form is indeed a chemical process, same as making opium or heroin or what-have-you from poppy seeds, but you can get a buzz from chewing coca leaves. It's a nice buzz, actually, and the leaves are tasty. Good as or in tea, too. Helps with dealing with the altitude when you're up in the Andes. Certainly helped me haul my ass to Macchu Picchu when I was down in Peru. And it would probably help here in the Rockies, too, if one goes up beyond the altitude to which one has adapted. However, I believe that possessing coca leaves is illegal in the US, or at least that the legality is blurry unless you're Coca-Cola, because obviously you intend to make cocaine out of them. *eye roll* (Yes, that was sarcasm. :) ) Yet, you can grow all the poppies you want. Curious, that...


High altitude causes breathing issues and tiredness as there is a lack of oxygen, how can coca leaves help with that? It's not like it gives you an extra lung. As for poppy I've never seen a poppy plantation, yet there must be, but in secured location, or how else would we get poppy seeds in the supermarket and morphine based drugs in the pharmacy. And I doubt they import it all from Afganistan.

[whiterider]

force the drug user to remain in the facility until such a time that they are determined to be soberUnfortunately, this wouldn't work very well for some drugs - addiction to certain substances, such as heroin and meth, can get people to the point at which they can only function when they're under the influence. As soon as they're sober, they start to withdraw and need another hit. Even alcohol can be like that in extreme cases.


VerDeTerre, I understand your concern, but I think criminalisation addresses it from the wrong end. There will always be things people can do which impair their ability to drive (and do other things) - you can text or make calls, you can fall asleep behind the wheel, you can drink, you can smoke and drop your cigarette in the footwell, you can be distracted by your kids in the back seat, you can just be worrying or thinking hard about something and not paying attention to the road, or messing about with your satnav or car stereo. A piecemeal approach of trying to prevent every individual method of bad driving separately will never succeed: the better option is to educate and remind people constantly of their due care duties when they're driving, to cut off the causes which result in people engaging in these stupid activities; and to disqualify those who prove themselves to be insufficiently responsible to drive safely, to address the effects of those who aren't affected by the cause-oriented measures.
That in itself is not, of course, an argument for legalising pot; but I also don't think that [whatevering] under the influence can be an argument in favour of criminalisation, either.

[hugbug993]

If we can say that pot should be totally illegal because it can lead to car crashes, let's look at a list of things that can also cause car crashes.

- Cell phones
- Radios
- Alcohol
- Computer games
- Makeup
- Pets
- Children
- Teenagers
- Trees and roadsigns

So could someone explain to me why pot's role in car crashes is a good argument for making it totally illegal, but when you apply that argument to anything else on the list, it sounds completely unreasonable?

High altitude causes breathing issues and tiredness as there is a lack of oxygen, how can coca leaves help with that? It's not like it gives you an extra lung.
One of the causes of altitude sickness is that when blood oxygen gets low, people start to hyperventilate. Quick, shallow breathing really doesn't help when there isn't much oxygen in the air. Coca stimulates deep breathing instead, which allows the user to make the most of what oxygen is in the air. That combined with the fact that it's both a stimulant and an anesthetic means that you don't feel as much fatigue.

[iCad]

I guess the real question for me is, how many will take up pot and behave irresponsibly if it is legalized? Also, will there be a change in the behavior of those who already use pot? Will more and better studies come about regarding it's effects?

I can't give you anything "scientific," but here goes:

1) Marijuana's been legal here since the November election. I believe we were the first state to legalize. Since then, there have been some polls and such done, state-wide, which, so I've read in the newspapers, have found that use habits haven't changed much, at least not so far. (And if a big "weed orgy" was going to happen, my intuition tells me it would have happened shortly after legalizing, not a long time afterwards.) The polls found that people who don't/have never used are still on that wagon, for the most part, POSSIBLY because the stuff is still very expensive to buy. What changing the law did was to decriminalize those of us who already use. But to start using completely within the law...means that you've take on a VERY expensive new hobby, far more expensive than going to the liquor store and stocking up. Most people aren't going to do that. And buying illegally is still...Well, illegal, and that's going to deter most people, even the very curious.

2) Amongst my (large) group of smoking friends, I can tell you that the only real difference legalizing has made amongst us is that most of us are growing our own stuff now because, as I said, it's expensive to buy either legally or illegally. You can legally have I think it's six plants for personal use. We in our household only have/need three. You cannot sell what you grow unless you're a licensed, regulated, and taxed distributor business. That system set up when marijuana was legal only for approved medical use and, so far as I know, they aren't changing the system. You just don't need a card to buy your ounce anymore, unless you're underage, as my daughter is. And yes, it's expensive to buy the plants, too, and while they're fairly easy to grow, you also have to go through the whole cultivating and drying process. It's kind of labor-intensive but, for me, worth it because then I know EXACTLY what I'm putting in my body.

3) Many, many studies have already been done, pretty much all of which have found that marijuana is non-addictive, relatively non-impairing (when compared with something like alcohol), does not cause increased risk of lung cancer or any other kind of cancer, does not cause the development of tolerance, does not appear to be psychologically addictive, cannot cause a "lethal response" and therefore it's impossible to overdose on it and kill yourself (The same CANNOT be said for caffeine, mind you), and on and on. Do we really NEED more studies when the ones that are conducted just keep saying the same things over and over again?

Pertaining to #2: I think you might have a distorted vision of marijuana users and what marijuana does to you. We're not crackheads or junkies who MUST have a fix or else suffer terrible, painful withdrawl. Marijuana is not (or at the very least because studies differ, it is not very) physically addictive, and it doesn't create tolerance. So you don't need more and more to get the same effect. And, as I said, the effects are FAR less impairing than many other drugs, especially alcohol and some OTC drugs that contain alcohol, like NyQuil. (I'd be more worried about the bus driver with a raging cold and what he/she might have taken for that before getting behind the wheel of the bus, frankly.) In fact, our central nervous systems already have dedicated receptors "designed" to interact with the active chemicals in marijuana. So, people who smoke are just using what's already there, not making the brain do something it was never "intended" to do. Also, as I said, marijuana is not highly impairing. Sure, it CAN be done to excess, but most people who use it regularly do not use it that way, possibly because you don't NEED to in order to get the desired effect. Those who do use it excessively have been, in my experience, teens, who are likely to use ANYTHING in excess out of ignorance or out of trying to be "cool." And teens will likely never be able to use weed legally, just like they can't use alcohol legally.

In all, like I said, I can drink a glass of wine or smoke a joint. I am FAR more impaired if I choose the glass of wine, which knocks me for a loop because I'm not a drinker and have no alcohol tolerance. And in either case, I wouldn't get behind the wheel of a car, although in all honesty, I'd probably be OK to do so after one average joint. EVERYONE I know who uses weed regularly is the same way. Because we're responsible grownups who don't use weed as a sort of social rebellion but rather in the same way as most people who moderately use, say, beer use their beer. Except that beer messes you up more.

You might find this little article interesting/thought-provoking. (http://www.collegiatetimes.com/stories/15136/caffeine-may-be-more-dangerous-than-marijuana/p1) I gave up caffeine for my New Year's resolution. Best decision I ever made. I was a very heavy user of that, and I can confirm that it has a far greater/worse affect on me than the weed does. Horrible withdrawal and everything. And you'd be surprised what-all they put it in; I've had to become a label-reader! Yet, I can easily not smoke weed for extended periods of time with no withdrawal and no cravings whatsoever, because of the entirely natural way it interacts with the body, without forcing your body to adapt to it as even caffeine does.

Like I said, my point isn't that marijuana is benign. It's a drug, yes, and it has its effects. My point is that it is far less toxic/impairing/damaging than a good number of substances out there that are legal and sometimes even uncontrolled, and that most marijuana users use it responsibly. (Which, honestly, I can't say about a lot of drinkers I know.) So, I see no logical, non-fear-mongering reason to make/keep marijuana illegal. I'd be happier if there were more potheads behind the wheel than drunkards, frankly. But, like I said, marijuana also doesn't cause delusions of competency, so I doubt that would happen. I know that here in CO there hasn't been a spike in DUI accidents since November, so...Yeah, even if more people ARE suddenly smoking and driving, they're apparently not causing any more accidents than before recreational marijuana was legal. Because, as I said, pot isn't all that impairing in that way. Its effects are very different from alcohol's effects.

@ crocobaura: I don't know how coca helps with altitude. I just know it's been used that way by Andean peoples for a long, long time. Plus, I'm a climber now, and I have friends who've climbed the higher mountains in the Andes -- highly conditioned people who've climbed mountains like Everest -- who've reported that they felt that climbing at extreme altitude was significantly easier when chewing coca leaves. Perhaps the active chemicals in the leaves affect how well oxygen binds to blood cells (which certainly would cause a "stimulant" effect, or maybe it affects lung function. Don't know and don't have time to do the research. I DO know that during the hike up to Machu Picchu, I had less trouble with the process when I chewed the leaves than when I didn't. And at the time, I was NOT a mountain dweller with a hobby of climbing Colorado's "Fourteeners." I was a soft, wussy-ass Manhattanite. The closest I got to high altitude back then was the semi-highrise I lived in.

ETA: Ah, see, Hugbug knows about the effects of coca. All I gots is personal experience. ;)

[VerDeTerre]

I never discussed "addiction". There are other effects of marijuana. I am not ignorant nor inexperienced in the matter of users, however, I'm certain that there is still more to learn about its effects. Denial about what the effects are is a common attribute among dedicated users.

I also want to make it clear that if I do not respond to something you've written, it does not imply agreement.

[crocobaura]

Pertaining to #2: I think you might have a distorted vision of marijuana users and what marijuana does to you. We're not crackheads or junkies who MUST have a fix or else suffer terrible, painful withdrawl. Marijuana is not (or at the very least because studies differ, it is not very) physically addictive, and it doesn't create tolerance. So you don't need more and more to get the same effect. And, as I said, the effects are FAR less impairing than many other drugs, especially alcohol and some OTC drugs that contain alcohol, like NyQuil. (I'd be more worried about the bus driver with a raging cold and what he/she might have taken for that before getting behind the wheel of the bus, frankly.) In fact, our central nervous systems already have dedicated receptors "designed" to interact with the active chemicals in marijuana. So, people who smoke are just using what's already there, not making the brain do something it was never "intended" to do. Also, as I said, marijuana is not highly impairing. Sure, it CAN be done to excess, but most people who use it regularly do not use it that way, possibly because you don't NEED to in order to get the desired effect. Those who do use it excessively have been, in my experience, teens, who are likely to use ANYTHING in excess out of ignorance or out of trying to be "cool." And teens will likely never be able to use weed legally, just like they can't use alcohol legally.


Sound a lot like alcohol. Most people I know would have wine with dinner and not get intoxicated, yet every now and then there is a person who will abuse alcohol for whatever reason. And the fact that teens can't legally drink or smoke weed or even plain old tobacco, does not mean that it won't be available to them altogether. Anyway, I expect the real effects of legalised marijuana to be seen in a few years when it will be cheaper and more common place and overall easier to procure and abuse.

[tigerex_13]

the way i see it,marijuana should only be used in a medical capacity(this is from personal experience) but sadly there are a large number of people out there that use too much and become addicted which creates a reliance and legalizing marijuana could have a destructive effect on them both mentally and physically. but in the medical capacity i mentioned,administered in small doses i can be helpful for some medical conditions.but legalizing it completely is something that will will to have a lot of research done before and final decision can be made.

(sorry if i don't make much sense,although English is my main language i struggle with it)

[hugbug993]

I think the only people who become addicted to marijuana are people who already have addictive problems. The plant itself doesn't have any addictive properties, so it's probably not the cause. The people who get addicted, on the other hand, do tend to have some characteristics in common. And if they don't get addicted to one thing, they tend to do another. I've met people who are addicted to reading and books don't contain any chemicals that cause addiction. Unless the paper is made from hemp.
My point is, the plant itself isn't responsible.

As for the research, people have been taking drugs since they were discovered. Most countries today consider cannabis to be a low priority, a couple have legalized it, and some religions use it as part of their rituals. In the US, we have aging baby boomers who took drugs in the 60's. I think we can tell what the long-term effects might be.

Also, I'd like to see your statistics. Could you show us the study indicating that a large number of people are addicted?

[iCad]

I never discussed "addiction". There are other effects of marijuana. I am not ignorant nor inexperienced in the matter of users, however, I'm certain that there is still more to learn about its effects. Denial about what the effects are is a common attribute among dedicated users.

I also want to make it clear that if I do not respond to something you've written, it does not imply agreement.

Fair enough. What, then, are these "other effects" of which you speak? Mostly, when I talk to people about this stuff, they're most concerned about:

1) People becoming addicted, apparently thinking that marijuana is just like heroin in that regard.
2) People being impaired all the time.
3) That the drug is physically damaging.

Also, there's that old myth of "marijuana psychosis" that's been around since the 30s, at least, and that has been debunked. I find that most people don't talk about that anymore, though. Maybe the baby boomers (which I am on the tail end of) finally showed that up for the myth that it is. Since that's what pretty much everyone seems to be concerned about, those are the things I talk about when I talk about this issue with others. That, and the nonsensicalness of marijuana being illegal (and the government spending billions of dollars to have a "war" on it) when alcohol is far more damaging/impairing/addicting yet it's completely legal for adult recreational use, without restriction.

But let's address the concerns that you actually have, then. Bring 'em on. :) I mean, I could list marijuana's effects on ME and my household and friends, but drug effects in general can be very different across different individuals or different races or families. (For instance, Native Americans are known to be highly susceptible to addiction to alcohol, more than any other race, possibly because it was not a part of any of their cultures until it was introduced to them by Europeans.) So, like I said, tell me what you're really concerned about, and then let's discuss that and see what we can come up with. I'm going to be out and about most of the day today, but this is a topic that's obviously of interest to me, so I like thinking about and discussing it, and I'll get back with you when I'm able.

I will say up front that I DO actually have one concern about marijuana. That would be its delivery. I'm not actually a person who enjoys smoking or inhaling smoke of any kind, which is why I never touched cigarettes again after trying one once when I was about 13 or so. So, that's why I'm currently experimenting, with the help of a Native American herbalist friend of mine, with various teas and tinctures, either "pure" weed or in combination with other herbs that might have a good/pleasant co-effect, so that I don't have to smoke it. Since I've got my own plants now, I can do what I want with them and experiment a bit without feeling like I'm wasting anything if something that I try doesn't work. Now, all of the studies I've read have said that smoking marijuana does not significantly increase one's risk for lung cancer, not like smoking cigarettes does, but...I'm still leery, nevertheless. I'm hoping I can come up with something else that works for me. So, there's one concern I have. :) Honestly, that's pretty much the only real one, though.

[VerDeTerre]

I find it hard to believe that studies suggest that smoking marijuana does not increase risk of lung cancer. Smoking anything is dangerous and marijuana is no exception. And I've never come across anything that suggested that marijuana was free of carcinogens. Perhaps home grown, organic pot is better, but I'd still be leery. If that is your biggest concern, you'd be better off baking it into brownies.

Your point about individuals having different experiences/reactions is well made.

The concern I have is based on personal observation that was loosely backed up years later by reports of research, but I don't have the data and I feel like it's something that needs to be looked at much more carefully. It is how it adversely affects brain function and the connection to depression and paranoia. I'm not sure what the parameters are for this. Some variables that occur to me is that it may affect teens differently than adults because of where teens are in the process of brain development, namely the maturation that brings about the final piece of executive function. This pretty serious stuff and is a major reason why teens shouldn't drink or do drugs. Another variable is frequency and amount of use. I would imagine that someone who got high once a week had a very different experience from someone who smoked most days for a period of time. As for the paranoia - I've seen it more times than I care to from individuals who smoke regularly for a period of years. Initially, the paranoia is only while high. Later, it's just there - that irrational fear that someone (usually the government) is out to get you. Perhaps it's something that is in the individual to begin with and getting high regularly made it come out. I don't know.

[Mootilda]

I must admit that I'm a bit torn. There's no question that some people will abuse it. But, it should obviously be legal for medical purposes.

However, when I look at the "war on drugs", it reminds me far too much of the increase in organized crime during prohibition and the answer becomes obvious: YES, legalize it. Anything bad that occurs because of legalizing a mild drug like marijuana is nothing compared to the bad stuff that happens because it's illegal.

I find it hard to believe that studies suggest that smoking marijuana does not increase risk of lung cancer.Me too. Which is why you should bake brownies or make tea or ...

As for the paranoia - I've seen it more times than I care to from individuals who smoke regularly for a period of years. Initially, the paranoia is only while high. Later, it's just there - that irrational fear that someone (usually the government) is out to get you. Perhaps it's something that is in the individual to begin with and getting high regularly made it come out. I don't know.Couldn't have anything to with the fact that the government actually is out to get people who use marijuana? ;)

[VerDeTerre]

Ha-ha! The paranoia to which I am referring goes beyond that. I talking about "live in the desert and do not own a single piece of identifying information because they're out to get you" crazy paranoia. Ok, ok, so most people don't carry it that far, but they carry it further than is necessary and tend to have intense mistrust of government and human organizations that are so organized for cooperative purposes and make our lives work. Libertarians fit that description, too.

I agree about ending the "war on drugs" and making marijuana medically available and legal as I stated earlier in the thread.

[Mootilda]

Must admit that I don't know anyone like that, even though I know people who have used MJ fairly often during their lives. However, I can understand having a deep mistrust of an organization which has lied to people about MJ's effect and persecuted people for using MJ, especially if the person who mistrusts is one of the persecuted..

Makes me wonder whether there is cause and effect, whether MJ is the cause or the effect, or whether they are both effects with a common cause?

[MattShizzle]

I think it should but it's not a very important issue at all to me. I wouldn't use it regardless - I prefer alcohol, specifically beer. Only way I would would be medical if it was legitimately useful for a medical condition. I've noticed through my life people really into it are very annoying - it's all they talk about.

[paksetti]

As far as I can tell, from my own experiences and those of my friends, paranoia happens when someone isn't in the right frame of mind. Someone is freaked out, the weed exacerbates it, mediate, let go, get back in the right frame of mind. Personally, I have severe anxiety issues, and marijuana helps me. I can more easily get up, get out, get active, and get shit done. It's much better than the clonazepam I'd be prescribed, as that junk makes me loopy and sad, then leaves me wanting more. True, if I freak out, I'll feel worse than I did before, but it's a training tool for keeping myself level-headed.

[Mistermook]

I'd legalize them all and then reformat the DEA into something of a regulatory and tax enforcement agency like the ATF. Then I'd shift the extra funds into health subsidies to treat the inevitable wash of people coming back into the system again, and try to get the prisons cleared out of drug offenders. I find it offensive that people can get a high capacity assault rifle in this country with less hassle than a joint... it just seems backwards. It's not the drugs that are the main societal problem with drugs, it's drug dealers. Starve the dealers, educate users, treat the addicted. It seems pretty simple, even for a bunch of Puritans.

[iCad]

@ VerDeTerre: Studies regarding smoking marijuana and lung cancer have been...inconclusive. For instance, there have been a few studies, particularly one released in I think 2006, which "showed" that not only does marijuana smoke NOT increase risk of lung cancer, but it was also "shown" to mitigate the risk if you also smoked cigarettes. But then later studies showed different and contradictory findings, and it's just...Well, inconclusive. My own completely unscientific feeling is that smoking anything probably isn't good for you, which is why I'm seeking to eliminate smoking the stuff and switching to teas. (The problem with the tea, so far, is that it...uh, doesn't taste very good, at least not to me. And I don't want to be baking/eating brownies all the time. ;) ) I should also note that all of the studies I've read, even those that say marijuana does increase lung cancer risk, also say that the increased risk is not nearly as high as with tobacco smoke. Many list the increased risk as "insignificant" from a scientific/statistical standpoint.

The problem with studies involving marijuana in general is that it's still mostly illegal. Therefore, it's hard to do studies. So it's kind of a Catch-22. And in terms of studying the effects of smoking it specifically, an additional layer of difficulty is added: It is difficult to find subjects who do smoke marijuana but who don't smoke and/or have never smoked cigarettes and/or who have not been subjected to a lot of second-hand smoke by, say, their parents being heavy smokers. Subjects who do have contact with cigarette smoke as well as marijuana can obviously skew results.

So, this is why I take studies of that particular subject, no matter what they "show," with a rather large grain of salt...and then I go with what my gut says. And, like I said, my gut says that deliberately inhaling smoke of any kind is unnatural and probably not really good for you. It's why I'm meticulous about being checked for lung cancer, since I've been smoking marijuana (mostly lightly, about once a week) for about 30 years now. (And sometimes I smoked heavily for short periods. For instance, before I went through menopause, I was pretty debilitated by endometriosis, and I did damage to myself by taking lots of NSAIDs for the pain and inflammation. My OB/GYN wanted to put me hormones that I really didn't want to take, so I tried the weed instead. Guess what? It worked better for the pain, and it didn't tear my stomach to pieces. Then it was tolerable without the hormones until it pretty much went away with sweet, sweet menopause.) So, now I'm more meticulous about being checked for lung cancer than I am for being checked for breast cancer, and...so far, so good.

As for the paranoia: I've seen that effect very occasionally, yes, though I've never experienced it myself. And I can't say I personally know anyone who's become paranoid on a permanent basis. I think that if a person has that reaction it's, like paksetti said, more of a product of their mindset BEFORE they smoke, or it's a product of their "natural" mindset if they're given to paranoia generally. Most psychoactive drugs have the effect of intensifying what's already there, after all. However, I don't think the effects are cumulative, only that they happen while using the drug. And, like I said before, most people who have unpleasant reactions to marijuana generally stop using it because who wants to feel/be unpleasant? With the paranoia you've witnessed, I'd wonder if those people were already given to such opinions/thinking and the fact that they smoke marijuana is just a coincidence. Although yes, there is a bit of hippie anti-government feeling in the marijuana subculture, mostly because the government has made us criminals for, in our opinion, no logical reason. But I wouldn't necessarily categorize the mindset as "paranoia" as such because, as Mootilda said, the government actually IS out to get us. :)

For me, the only real negative side effect of marijuana that I've experienced personally is a temporary short-term memory loss, but that's only been when I've used it very heavily for whatever reason. (Which, as I said, is/was primarily for medical reasons, NOT for recreational reasons.) But, again, it's not a cumulative effect. And, of course, alcohol will also have the same effect when used heavily. Most drugs will, illegal or otherwise.

@MattShizzle: HAH! Yes, some people will talk about it a lot, won't they? :) I think it's because it's it's own culture, with the usual variations in devotion amongst the population. I equate it with Star Trek fans, personally. There are Star Trek fans who love the shows and watch them regularly/often, but they aren't "in the fandom," so to speak. They just like the shows. Then there are the fans who live, eat, and breathe Star Trek. And then there are all sorts of people in the middle. The marijuana community is the same way. You might think that we all talk about it incessantly, but that's likely because, as with any subculture, be it marijuana users or members of a religion, the minority is loud, and they tend to give the rest of us a label that we don't always deserve. Most people that I know don't talk about marijuana, except with known fellow users because then you obviously know that you have an interest in common.

[Mootilda]

I'm seeking to eliminate smoking the stuff and switching to teas. (The problem with the tea, so far, is that it...uh, doesn't taste very good, at least not to me. And I don't want to be baking/eating brownies all the time. ;) )Try this: Boil the buds for about an hour, then use that water to make black tea or coffee. The black tea or coffee will kill some of the taste. Be sure to add a little whole milk or cream, since MJ works better with a little fat. I would also warn you to drink just a little then wait to see your reaction. It's better to have to make more than to spend the day completely stoned (unless that's your intention). The nice thing is that you can make a lot of "broth" and store it in the fridge, so you don't need to wait an hour every time.

I've noticed through my life people really into it are very annoying - it's all they talk about.This is the first time that I've talked about it outside of my immediate family, so I doubt that I talk about it too much.

Oh no! I didn't read all of the posts before posting. Am I going to be punished? :blink:

[iCad]

Try this: Boil the buds for about an hour, then use that water to make black tea or coffee. The black tea or coffee will kill some of the taste. Be sure to add a little whole milk or cream, since MJ works better with a little fat. I would also warn you to drink just a little then wait to see your reaction. The first time that I tried, it was much too strong, although I followed the instructions given to me by the compassion club. It's better to have to make more than to spend the day completely stoned (unless that's your intention).

HAH! No, being "stoned" is only very rarely my intention. I'm more of a medicinal user than a recreational user, at least nowadays. (Gettin' old and all. :) ) And that's a useful, suggestion, thanks. My problem is that I've eliminated caffeine as well, so coffee is out (and I don't like coffee, either), as are some teas and stuff like hot chocolate. So, I'm limited to herbal or decaffeinated teas, mostly, and most of those, I've found, have a taste themselves, which at least in my opinion clash rather unpleasantly with the MJ taste. What we need is a flavorless MJ! We need to get the genetic engineers on that. ;)

And yeah, it's not illegal everywhere and even where it generally is, there are "medical marijuana" places. It's just a lot of extra verbiage to be that specific. I think people know what I mean, though.

[Mootilda]

I suggested black tea or coffee because they've got a strong flavor of their own. Anything which has enough flavor to override the MJ, even soup. It won't kill the taste completely, but it might make it bearable.

I think that we cross-posted. I added a suggestion about making too much and storing it.

[iCad]

I suggested black tea or coffee because they've got a strong flavor of their own. Anything which has enough flavor to override the MJ, even soup. It won't kill the taste completely, but it might make it bearable.

Soup is a good idea! I didn't even think about that. I get this homemade minestrone from a local market that has a very strong flavor. Might work well to mask the MJ taste, indeed. Thank you, dear! :D

[crocobaura]

Soup is a good idea! I didn't even think about that. I get this homemade minestrone from a local market that has a very strong flavor. Might work well to mask the MJ taste, indeed. Thank you, dear! :D

If it's medicine, why don't you just close your eyes and swallow it like medicine? Afterwards you can drink some water to clear the taste.

[DDOAndora]

We spend far to much money on the War On Pot. Lets just stop. It gives so much power to criminals who move it. Huge amounts of tax payer money is spent on chasing it. All this money spent and we have more doing pot per capita then the 1930's when this war started.

As far as mental health of users? The same ones with issues would have it with or with out pot. I know just as many whack adoos who are hate filled anti government who do not smoke pot and hate any one who does smoke it. I personally feel its the Internet that makes them even more hate filled, not any substance. When you can find someone who is like minded and you start hating anything or anyone, SOME are going to take things to far. Its part of being human, not sure if we can last long enough evolve past it.

My husband is on Votrient for his cancer. One of the side effects is loss of appetite, on a user forum someone said they put buds in olive oil and used it. If you like tex mex cooking that should work out as the musky taste is a lot like cilantro.

Wonder if you can distill it like herbs and put it in every day cooking.

[iCad]

If it's medicine, why don't you just close your eyes and swallow it like medicine? Afterwards you can drink some water to clear the taste.

Because that's no fun! :) Medicine shouldn't have to be unpleasant just because it's medicine. Plus, it isn't always medicine. I'd say for me, currently, the medicine/recreation ratio is about 75/25. Or thereabouts.

@DDOAndora: I feel for your husband, definitely, and marijuana definitely helps with chemo ickiness. My daughter has born-too-prematurely digestive issues as well as pain issues, and the weed helps her as well and doesn't knock her for a loop like narcs do.

And yes, you can use MJ in everyday cooking if you want to. I believe it actually IS an herb, after all. IMO, the taste is something of an acquired taste, though, and I'm having a bit of trouble acquiring it vs. smoking it. And it usually requires a little experimentation to get the dosage right, so that you don't get too little or too much.

[Mootilda]

If it's medicine, why don't you just close your eyes and swallow it like medicine? Afterwards you can drink some water to clear the taste.Why make your life more miserable than it has to be? If you're using MJ for pain, appetite, or nausea, you're probably pretty miserable already.

My husband is on Votrient for his cancer. One of the side effects is loss of appetite, on a user forum someone said they put buds in olive oil and used it. If you like tex mex cooking that should work out as the musky taste is a lot like cilantro.

Wonder if you can distill it like herbs and put it in every day cooking.I know that the compassion club sells both MJ butter and MJ oil. No idea of the recipe, though. There must be recipes around. I just know that with tea, you need to boil it much longer than normal tea to get the effect.

[crocobaura]

Why make your life more miserable than it has to be? If you're using MJ for pain, appetite, or nausea, you're probably pretty miserable already.




Why spoil the taste of soup? :jest:

[Mootilda]

if it were legalized, id prefer something also be tacked on to the degree that it couldnt be smoked in certain places. my lungs have already been effected by second hand tobacco, and a genetic heart problem furthers my respiratory issues. smoke from weed makes me cough uncontrollably and if i dont get clean air relatively quickly i pass out.I really agree with this. Even if it were legal, people shouldn't smoke around other people without their agreement. People shouldn't smoke around kids at all.

Why spoil the taste of soup? :jest:The idea isn't to ruin the taste of whatever you're eating or drinking, but to find a way to take your medicatiion that does you the least harm.

[iCad]

Why spoil the taste of soup? :jest:

Well, hopefully it won't spoil the taste of the soup. I will experiment. FOR SCIENCE! :)

ETA @ Mootilda: I can only speak for Colorado, but here you are not allowed to smoke marijuana anywhere in public, which IMO is just good sense. I know in Europe they have coffeehouses where people can smoke, but I feel that impinges on people's right to visit coffeehouses but do not want to be subjected to marijuana. To me, keeping to to myself is just polite, unless I'm with a bunch of other people smoking.

[crocobaura]

Well, hopefully it won't spoil the taste of the soup. I will experiment. FOR SCIENCE! :)


Lol. Just grind it into powder and encapsulate it and take it like you would any pill.

http://www.swansonvitamins.com/empty-capsules

[iCad]

Lol. Just grind it into powder and encapsulate it and take it like you would any pill.

http://www.swansonvitamins.com/empty-capsules

That might be a good plan. I don't know, though...It just seems so sterile. I guess I'm just too much of a sensualist for my own good. Or at least for my own convenience. I'm liking the idea of experimenting, I guess. :lol:

[paksetti]

If you feel like dropping a couple hundred dollars, you could always go for a vaporizer. There are some nice medical grade one available, -and- they even have those e-cig type vapes adapted for mj that allow you to carry it around with you if need be.

[whiterider]

hey have coffeehouses where people can smoke, but I feel that impinges on people's right to visit coffeehouses but do not want to be subjected to marijuana.There's really no reason to visit a coffeeshop if you don't want to smoke - they don't actually serve coffee, or food; just overpriced soft drinks for those who like to sit and smoke for hours. If you want coffee, you'll go to a cafe - coffeeshops exist for the purpose of selling weed. :)

There's also something strangely hilarious about having a cashier hand you a single, ready-made joint encapsulated in a little plastic tube.

[iCad]

Ah, you learn something new every day! I've never been to one when I've been in places that have one, and I guess I just assumed that something called a coffeehouse would have, you know, coffee. :) But then, now that I think about it, I don't think that weed would work well with coffee, anyway. The effects are sort of contradictory and would cancel each other out. Do they only smoke weed there, or is it available in other prepared forms? I'll be in Amsterdam later in the year, and I might want to do some checking out if it's not just a place to sit and smoke.

[lauratje86]

There's really no reason to visit a coffeeshop if you don't want to smoke - they don't actually serve coffee, or food; just overpriced soft drinks for those who like to sit and smoke for hours. If you want coffee, you'll go to a cafe - coffeeshops exist for the purpose of selling weed. :)

I was just about to say this. I do know of a couple of coffeshops near where I used to live (in the Netherlands) that did also sell coffee, mind you, but nobody went in there just for a cup of coffee! :-D It wasn't nice coffee, apparently, just basic stuff. For stoned people who fancied coffee, I guess? They also sold crisps.

[whiterider]

I don't remember seeing other forms, but I haven't been to coffeeshops on more than a couple of occasions. If you are looking to try it out, you'll have to be pretty quick - the right wingers are trying (and largely succeeding) to restrict it to people with Dutch passports.

[lauratje86]

I was just about to say this. I do know of a couple of coffeshops near where I used to live (in the Netherlands) that did also sell coffee, mind you, but nobody went in there just for a cup of coffee! :-D It wasn't nice coffee, apparently, just basic stuff. For stoned people who fancied coffee, I guess? They also sold crisps.

Do they only smoke weed there, or is it available in other prepared forms? I'll be in Amsterdam later in the year, and I might want to do some checking out if it's not just a place to sit and smoke.

Some sell it in brownies, but by no means all of them. Mainly it's sold to smoke, in my experience.

[iCad]

I don't remember seeing other forms, but I haven't been to coffeeshops on more than a couple of occasions. If you are looking to try it out, you'll have to be pretty quick - the right wingers are trying (and largely succeeding) to restrict it to people with Dutch passports.

Snobs. :) Y'all just want to keep all the weed to yourselves, don't you? :) And it begs the question: Should such legislation widely come to pass, do all Dutch people have passports? I know that not all Americans do, after all.

Actually, I can sort of understand. I do sort of envision a massive influx of population into Colorado because we legalized MJ. I can't say I really like that thought, although I don't honestly know that it will actually happen. Either way, I would PREFER to have MJ be more widely legalized instead.

In any event, if the coffeehouses are mainly just places to smoke, I can't say I'm all that interested. I can do that at home and/or with my group of friends. I was thinking more like it might be a place where I can get ideas for tasty uses that y'all might have over there as opposed to stuff I can find in the Stoner's Cookbook or whatever. But if that's not the case...meh. There are other places I want to see in Amsterdam. Haven't been there in a long, long time. :)

[Mootilda]

Do coffeehouses at least sell a variety of mixtures?
http://www.theweedblog.com/the-difference-between-indica-and-sativa-marijuana-plants/

[whiterider]

I don't have a Dutch passport, I'm English :P . But yes, the majority on mainland Europe, at least in the smaller countries, have passports, simply because it's a pain to not be able to drive to a certain shop/city/event/tourist attraction if you want to. Lots of Americans will only ever cross a border if they go on a big holiday; plenty of Europeans do so regularly for much less exciting reasons. (In fact, as I live in a border city, a lot of the people who study/work at my faculty live in "that other country" and cross the border every day)

Though, the Schengen agreement might give rise to a new generation of Europeans without passports (because under Schengen, you no longer need a passport to cross borders if you're an EU citizen, you just need some kind of photo ID). The Dutch right wingers would probably quite like that, because this legislation is mostly a symbolic condemnation, firstly of, well, drugs, but secondly of immigration and foreigners generally.

[iLyrica-sama]

I'm indifferent about the situation, actually. While it may lower the crime rate here in Chicago, I'm highly allergic to the substance, and it's put me in the hospital several times due to the fact that quite a few of my family members and neighbors are AVID weed smokers. Ugh. >_>"

[iCad]

Though, the Schengen agreement might give rise to a new generation of Europeans without passports (because under Schengen, you no longer need a passport to cross borders if you're an EU citizen, you just need some kind of photo ID). The Dutch right wingers would probably quite like that, because this legislation is mostly a symbolic condemnation, firstly of, well, drugs, but secondly of immigration and foreigners generally.

Stupid me. I was thinking that EU citizens already didn't need a passport to go from country to country. I just don't pay attention to this stuff, I'm afraid. Me, I'm American and have a passport because I'm out of the country a lot for my profession. Especially, I go to Canada a lot. And you used to be able to go to Canada (and Mexico) without a passport, just with ID, but the silly "Patriot Act" or whatever the hell it is changed that. :p I think it was just a ploy for everyone to have to pony up for a passport. :p

But, yeah, I know there's a growing "We don't want no stinkin' fur'ners here" sentiment in Europe. In that, y'all are becoming more American! (Kidding!) It's sad, really. I mean, I can understand because there are all sorts of considerations especially because of universal healthcare over there. You can only pay for so many people, but...Well, in my perfect world I take a page from John Lennon and imagine no countries. :)

[whiterider]

Well - Schengen has been in place for a fair few years now, but not long enough for most people to have given up their passports. Plus, if you want to take any of the commercial crossborder transport - Eurostar or flights - they still require passports, even though they're not technically allowed to. Schengen mostly affects drivers or people taking local cross-border bus/train services. (Plus, no visas to pay for!)

[simbalena]

Do coffeehouses at least sell a variety of mixtures?
http://www.theweedblog.com/the-difference-between-indica-and-sativa-marijuana-plants/

Do you mean a variety of different strains? If so then yes they definitely do sell all sorts of different strains (disclaimer: I know this but I haven't been there).

[Mootilda]

Yes, they call the different mixtures "strains" in that article.

[sonyablue]

Of course it should be legal, what is really criminal is the psychopathic system that says it cannot be.