Real (non-celebrity) Sim

[Jaguwar]

Ok, so I'm working on this sim from an actual photo, and can't seem to get her right. I think I've got the eyes about right, maybe! I'm using the tutorial here on MTS, which means I've got a multiplier working. I hope that's why the skin seems a bit mottled where things join up...

Anyway, here she is, tell me what I need to do to make her a closer match, please!

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-qcj36zFgz6E/T6v9E1H-oMI/AAAAAAAAEh4/Lb7YyOBIRsE/s800/self-sim_side-by-side_frontal.jpg

[piggypeach]

Cool! Interesting choice... I would suggest to:

-Increase eye distance
-Lower Eye Socket Height
-Increase Lower Lip Shape
-Decrease Lower Lip width by a little tad
-Increase Head Width
-Is the Nose Defenition high up? It looks like it might be... if it is, decrease it by wayyy a lot.
-Lower Mouth height
-Move Eyelid Height almost all the way down ( if it's not already)
-Move the Eyes Lower Lid Height to the right
-Raise up the eye outer corners
-Increase nose tip scale

Sorry, that's a lot of stuff. I think you're capable of it, though :)

[Jasumi]

I think for the nostrils, you should try rotating them with this slider: http://awtmk.blogspot.com/2011/11/sliders-links.html

[Golddisk]

I think you might need to make the head a little wider if possible, I think the cheek bone shape may need a little adjustment as well but I'm not completely sure. The area underneath the lips looks a little funny but unfortunately I'm unsure of how to fix that.

[FREEDOM_55]

interesting choice to sim,I like her:) you 'll certainly end up with a unique result :D

suggestions:
the skin seems a bit mottled where things join up... thats because the particular skin tone your using is too hard from the type of detailing in it's texturing. you need use a softer skintone thats more bare and matte.
Emphera's site seems to be down at the moment , I would have recommended using his V1 or V2 skin tone .so for the means time you could try his latest skin: http://www.modthesims.info/d/475132 or
Hp's Custard Faces :http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=349158 because they have soft texturing as well as enough detail that it does'nt disappear with dark skin tones and they are particularly flattering to curved noses.

- you need to her picture in a neutral expression, but your lighting is on point ;)
-her face needs be more rounder and less square, try decreasing the jaw definitions alot and playing around with the cheek fullness slider. I think this will automatically fix the squareness in her chin to be more round and resemble your source pic.
- her cheeks need to be fuller
- decrease cheekbone height
- her head has needs to be alot wider, enough not to to see the axis of her neck
- her eye socket height needs to be lowered
- her nose tip needs to be scaled larger
- her eyes need to be more down turned and almond shaped. so they need to be rounder
- make sure the bottom lip is more round by adjusting the the bottom lip shape as well as the lower lip width.

Sometimes a tip would be to completely start over a feature then make the suggested changes if stuck.
:gjob: so far, I can't wait for your next update!

[Jaguwar]

Ok, getting there, I think. The eyes are better, I think, and so is the nose? But I can't seem to get the lips right. I blame all the sliders. :)

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-dWZxpVcn1GY/T6yi-xe68MI/AAAAAAAAEiI/iJDbkYuF2KM/s800/self-sim_side-by-side_frontal2.jpg

Opinions/critiques/advice, please? Thanks! And thanks for the help already provided.

Edit: Hmmm... I think I need to shift the whole face up a little again.

Further edit: Haha Freedom, somehow when I posted the update I missed your post. Timing?
Anyway, that WAS her neutral expression, as far as I could tell, but yeah, she looked like she was sneering. I've also discovered the start over a feature trick, that does help.

I've always had a hard time recognizing people IRL, too, so making changes here is even harder: I don't see the subtle differences. Not that I'm there yet: there's very little resemblance! LOL

[Jasumi]

The most outstanding feature I see is the eyebrows. They need to be more arched...

And the jaw is too wide, too...

[FREEDOM_55]

Suggestions:
-her cheeks are improving but they are still sharp looking than round.
- try decreasing cheek fullness lightly and balance it out the with the cheek jowl slider.
- it also looks more natural if you increase the sim body weight. the default sim's body mesh softly morphs around the sims face with increased weight.
-increase the nose tip scale
-rotate the nose up more and bring up her nostrils height. the width is good though
a custom Lower Jaw Height slider so adjust either slider.
- the cheek height needs to be raised slightly
- you need to increase her upper lip thickness
-rotate her yes down slightly
-reduce the nasal crease
-I agree with Jasumi about the jaw width and eyebrows
- I think you need to choose different CC brows all together. *I help you search and update soon*:report:

Don't worry your doing a really :gjob: so far, she is coming along nicely:)

[piggypeach]

You're getting closer!
I would suggest, in addition to Freedom and Jasumi....


-raise up eyebrows (not too much)
-decrease mouth width
-increase lower and upper lip shape

[Jaguwar]

Thanks for the continued encouragement, I'll update a little later/this weekend. You guys rock!
Edit: I hate CAS :( She looks pretty good in CAS, but in-game.... yeesh! smh. My admiration for Sim-makers is growing.

Now what did I do wrong? :( I did change the nose a bit, moved the face down over the skull a bit, found a better balance (I think) between the cheeks and the jowls, but it's still not right. (Also note: she has no eyelashes yet, nor did I change the eyebrows except their color... I'll get that kind of thing later, I think.) She's still pretty pudding-faced IMO. *sigh* Maybe I should start adding profile and 3/4 views?

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-bsn0j--f54Q/T67hAx9_rvI/AAAAAAAAEiw/xoEcbhRDT6s/s800/self-sim_side-by-side_frontal.jpg

[Jaguwar]

I have since added a septum slider, it's SO much better! I'll post new pics tomorrow, but if you can keep guiding me on the one above, that would be great! Thank you!

[FREEDOM_55]

wow much better! she is improving

Suggestions:
-true flared noses are near impossible in the sims 3 unfortunately. But I'm sure the nose septum sliders make a great difference,I can't wait to see what you have done
- both top and bottom lips need to be thicker, the lip shapes are good though
- reduce the cheeks jowls ever so slightly and make her chin slightly more pointy to balance it out
- her upper eyelids are arched where in the reference picture they are smooth curved. I don't know why that is but perhaps you need to make a tiny adjustment to the eye apex to fix it.
-her eye depth needs to brought out alot more
- bring out the nose tip more
- decrease her nasal crease by alot
-is she an adult or a young adult? the young adult would look much softer when sucupting. so her cheeks will look alot softer.
-there is a base game hair that is cut lowand kinky intexture use that hair for now
- its best to create sims without any CC, but I find sometimes using a default skin can put thing into perspective. The skin tones I suggested are good to try
- decrease her lower eyelid height slightly

[Jaguwar]

Ok, at this point I think it's time to show you a quick front view, but it's time for side views too, so here's what I've got. Note that even as I post this, I'll keep working on her, but your advice still helps me see what I can't see. (Have I mentioned yet that I've always been terrible about recognizing people in real life? I think that makes it even more difficult for me to see the Sims I make and the subtle differences that make a face unique. So your observations, even while I do more between comments/posts, are a bonus.)

Anyway, I'm concerned now with fixing the underlip or the chin for a smoother line (what the heck is up with that???). I'm worried fixing that will distort the work I've done with the frontal view. *sigh* Working on it, but if you see something (particularly on the full profile) I'm more than happy to hear it.

Thanks again!

Oh BTW, in CAS the septum is a LOT narrower, but all that seems to disappear in-game. How very disappointing! Also, Freedom, to answer your question, she's an adult.

[Jaguwar]

OMG I just got a bunch of new sliders, because it's evident to me that EA never intended CAS for the creation of realistic ethnic peoples. Perhaps they confused lack of prejudice with disregard for how there actually are physical, structural differences between peoples of varied ethnicities. Or perhaps they were just a touch lazy, or it was simply too much effort and money, who knows.

Anyway, it's almost like starting over! It will take me longer than expected to have an update, I'm afraid.

[piggypeach]

Good for you, I'm sure the sliders will help :)

Just a few things I thought might be helpful while you're back in editing-mode,

Thanks for posting a 3/4 and a profile shot, those will help us give you better feedback :)

-Increase face profile
-Increase eye depth
-Decrease cheek-bone shape just a bit
-Increase upper and lower lip thickness (LOL, sorry we keep bugging you about this)
-Decrease mouth height a lot
-Maybe find some eyebrows that are a little softer and less harsh. I'll keep a look out for some that you could use and give you a link if I find some :)

All together, you're made great progress!!

[Jaguwar]

Thanks Piggy, I think I'm getting the hang of this because those are all things I was already working on. I also found eyebrows (woot!) I'm using these ones (http://sclub.mktm.co.uk/en/2012/01/ts3-eyebrow-n1/) by S-Club Privé, it makes quite the difference! I hope to have something to show in an hour or two.

[piggypeach]

OOH! Pretty eyebrows! I can tell that you're making huge progress. Can't wait to see the next update!

[Jaguwar]

Ok, this is just to show I haven't been slacking off, really. I think the nose is the biggest problem (ummm.... no puns intended). It's too long, mostly. But the profile is generally closer, isn't it? I had to start from a completely different place, reset every thing. :(

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-X6A1GFECMR4/T7Rpe2xHKYI/AAAAAAAAEjw/Y8j2LXTUGFc/s800/profile.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-XwfIyHLrb1U/T7Rpe8AyREI/AAAAAAAAEjs/dGZWzEZEsKk/s800/self-sim_side-by-side_frontal.jpg

My other problem is that I can't move the mouth out farther without causing some ugly nastiness around the mouth corners (basically my model runs out of skin.... not pretty! Finally... yeah yeah, I know, the mouth is too narrow and not thick enough, I'm working on this now.

I also need a better skin, I think, this one's letting me down. :(

Anything else you guys notice?

[Jasumi]

Nose bridge is way to high. It needs to end somewhere between her eyes. You also need to curve the nose bridge.

[piggypeach]

Oh my! What a difference!

Agreed with Jasumi about the nose bridge, but other than that it looks better :)
Actually, the part I see that needs the most work is the jaw.

-inner eye corner needs to move up.
-fiddle around with brow sliders until you can get it a bit more arched
-lower mouth height
-ever so slightly move up eye outer corner
-decrease mouth corners rotate. not too much, though
-decrease jaw depth
-get the little part under the mouth to go more inwards, and less flat. my mind just totally blanked on the name of the slider lol
-lower the lower eyelid height
-thicken lower and upper lips and shape them more
-make mouth corner depth come "out" more
-decrease chin scale
-tilt nose up

[Jaguwar]

Oooooohhhh!!!!! I was seriously misunderstanding where the various parts of the nose are! Thanks for the tips, I'll be working on those shortly. Update later tonight, I hope!

UPDATE:
This might be about as close as I come. :(
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-8hmboipxuuY/T7ZuSHgqDVI/AAAAAAAAEkI/tujEuZcuL3s/s800/self-sim_side-by-side_frontal.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-do23IRcuNlE/T7ZuSE6gzNI/AAAAAAAAEkE/BbMys-sqvE0/s800/profile.jpg

[Jaguwar]

What do you guys think?

[piggypeach]

Oh wow, jaw is looking better!! So is the nose!!

-Increase Lower Lip shape
-decrease mouth height to the max
-decrease nose width by just about a click
-inner eye and outer eye corners but need to come up

[MzzUnvrz]

I think her eyes are looking to happy squinty, when they should be more heaby lidded. The bottom lid should be a curve like \/ instead of ^. Obviously less sharp, but that's the main gist. She needs to have that heavy-lidded look, and the top lid is fine, it's just the bottom one.
Probably move the mouth down a fair bit as well.

At the moment, she's a very good looking sim and is very unique. She actually looks a little bit hawaiian :)

[Jaguwar]

This is probably my final go at sculpting, if you think this is acceptable. Well, except for tweaking the eyebrows (just realized I've ignored them so far... oops!)

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-nBmaQYvVV5E/T7edwWX6KlI/AAAAAAAAEkg/FfCeU5D7A-0/s800/self-sim_side-by-side_frontal.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-qjEIs4-5j64/T7edwe-UNDI/AAAAAAAAEkc/HZ74-oOY_jM/s800/profile.jpg

[piggypeach]

OMG Beautiful... The only thing I can think of is to increase face profile, then you're basically done with the face :)

If you look at how she was in the beginning versus now, it's kind of incredible!!

[Jaguwar]

Thanks Piggypeach, I couldn't have done it without you guys. For one thing, I would have given up ages ago! LOL. Also, sliders. It's disappointing how little range EA built into CAS, it really is. Non-Caucasian face types seem nearly impossible to make. Then again, maybe I just lack experience. :)

I've declared her done. Put some hair and makeup on her. Here she is:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-JjjgvmjJLW4/T7fMS40TK-I/AAAAAAAAEms/74x93HNtFY4/s800/closeup2.jpg

More images attached below.

[SimmyRN]

Looks great! You may want to consider making the nose - above the nostrils - a bit narrower and/or flatter if you wish to upload the sim with glasses. The glasses frames appear to be clipping a bit into the nose.

[MzzUnvrz]

I think she looks great. Are you submitting to real people or other?

Have you found an african american hair that would suit her? The hair you have now is good, but perhaps she would look even better with those tight african curls.

[Jaguwar]

SimmyRN ~ the intention was never to upload her (though I might change my mind at some point.)

Jaguwar Sims is my self Sim. I wanted her to look as close to me as possible. I hope I haven't disappointed anyone's expectations. Also, there's a LOT of CC, almost all of it sliders, and I don't know how that plays out for others?

MzzUnvrz ~ If I did upload her,I guess it would be under "Other",because she just does NOT match my look (I think she looks better! But we could probably pass for family) I have her in dreads for her everyday and all. Her hair goes up for business and formal (more or less like mine).

There simply aren't a lot of African American hairs out there. I'll have to make some.... maybe... some day.... :)

[piggypeach]

SimmyRN ~ the intention was never to upload her (though I might change my mind at some point.)

Jaguwar Sims is my self Sim. I wanted her to look as close to me as possible. I hope I haven't disappointed anyone's expectations. Also, there's a LOT of CC, almost all of it sliders, and I don't know how that plays out for others?

MzzUnvrz ~ If I did upload her,I guess it would be under "Other",because she just does NOT match my look (I think she looks better! But we could probably pass for family) I have her in dreads for her everyday and all. Her hair goes up for business and formal (more or less like mine).

There simply aren't a lot of African American hairs out there. I'll have to make some.... maybe... some day.... :)

Wow! It's you?

Okay I have to admit I kinda saw that coming. I mean, haven't we all made sims of ourselves? At least I have... But really, it would seem unlikely to have a front, 3/4, and profile shot of some random stranger,and want to make a sim of them... But you know what would be really funny? (And actually thought about doing this) Is you should make them completely like you, like everything even name (if you're comfortable with that being on the internet) and then upload her, but not even mention that it's you! It would be hilarious... Because even if you didn't know that this sim was based on a real picture, she is very unique and cute and you'd probably be able to get her accepted if you wanted to :)

Okay enough of me and my crazy ideas... If you actually ARE going to upload her, having a lot of CC and sliders may be a bit annoying to hunt down all the URL's for citations, but it's totally fine. There are some sims where there are so many sliders that I just feel like it's not worth all that to download the sim, but... I would download yours, and I think a lot of other people on here would also :)

Good luck with whatever you plan to do with her, and I'm glad I could help!

[Jaguwar]

LOL Piggypeach... I knew when I posted the other shots somebody would figure it out.

Thanks for the compliments. She did turn out mighty cute. I prefer her with my Sim name, but otherwise I'll consider it. Thank you hon! :)

[RylandHomes]

A very download worthy sim you've created there. I think it's so cool you had the guts enough to ask people to help make you. I think we should all be this brave. That's awesome, go you! :D

I'd download you in a heartbeat, your sim looks like she'd be a school principle with like, a really nice garden at her house, with a bunch of pink stuff everywhere, with a thick Georgia accent, like Paula Dean. Great job, please upload her! You really could work on her a bit more, but I think you'd be good to upload with it like that :)

[Jaguwar]

OMG ok ok! Sheesh, twist my rubber arm y'all! ;)

This is a really busy week, so I may not actually get to this until next week, but I'll try. Also, I need to sort out all the darned sliders I used. And the skin, for that matter. I'll give it a go. :)

[Jaguwar]

I thought you all might be interested to know I did upload her, and she's been accepted. You can find her here (http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=477170). One more time, I thank you for your help. :)