Thread about lag and game corruption

[babele44]

I stumbled over this thread at the official forums, nicely hidden in the Store discussions:
http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/list/536956.page
I'll quote the lengthy first post by amjoie, because I think that it contains some rather remarkable stuff:
EDITED to add summary -- original post is below summary list

PLEASE read the entire thread for very important details, including how to fix or avoid problems.

Summary list of issues discussed in this thread, so far:

Causes of Lag or Freezes

1. objects blocking driveways, like trees or shrubs
2. critters or sims spawned inside small fenced/bordered/enclosed areas (avoid "one space" enclosed gardens next to buildings and avoid "one space" gates or openings)
3. critters caught between the "V" at the base of two palm trees
4. horses that do not have two spaces of width to maneuver in or out of any area (including between palm trees, trees and buildings, anything enclosed, junk piles, etc)
5. critters who cannot maneuver off raised platforms, because they cannot back away far enough to turn around and get down
6. baby pets who cannot maneuver stairs
7. critters from spawners, who spawn under buildings, large rocks, etc
8. using "reset sim" without manually deleting abandoned cars (the reset sim gets a big lemon or jalopy car in their inventory, and their real car is left abandoned in the game) -- using "reset sim" at 3:00 am may reduce the problem of abandoned cars
9. too many spawners on a lot, no matter who made the lot (even EA lots have this problem) -- be sure to make a one tile basement, to check below ground for hidden spawners (for detailed information, see this thread: http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/list/523406.page)
10. spiral staircases placed before the Pets expansion, that have not been turned or replaced since then
11. fancy method of making an entrance with archways (this makes the actual front door and "inside door" which means sims cannot ring the doorbell, and it will cause other routing issues, as well)
12. too many memories accumulated in older games
13. an old hood, that has accumulated too many errors, even just as a result of normal game play
14. anything that causes game corruption (see list below)


Causes of Game Corruption

1. deleting ANY sim that EA put in the game, whether dead or alive, ghost or urn or tomb, pet or simmie (these sims are coded directly into world layers, and deleting them "shatters/fragments" their coding, leading to game corruption, at its most basic levels) EA sims are NOT regular sims/ghosts/critters/ghost critters -- they are coded into the game layers and have back-stories that keep calling on deep game coding--removing them is NOT an option
2. deleting a lot that has an occupied urn or tomb on it (some are even hidden in attics)
3. deleting EA graveyards (graveyard ghosts are NOT regular ghosts -- they are coded into the game layers and have back-stories that keep calling on deep game coding--removing them is NOT an option)
4. placing too many lots with the in-game world editor tool (it breaks a key component used in world creation, that can only be fixed in CAW, which means a saved game is broken beyond repair) -- an increasingly worsening problem with every expansion since LN)
5. using "moveobjects on" for any object that has a sim interaction, like chairs, beds, bookshelves, tables, etc (plants, rugs, or things that can be placed on end tables are still safe, as of ST, but who knows if later expansions will further break the cheat)
6. trying to mix an old and "not patched up to date" game, with newer CC designed for up to date games
7. games without the latest update to Origin, Adobe flash player, Adobe air and/or games with old video card drivers
8. using awesome mod to "destroyallhumans" IF the mod is subsequently removed from the game (it apparently works fine if you continue to use awesome mod with that saved game, to the best of our knowledge, as of today)
9. moving sims with "moveobjects on" (resetting the Sim usually solves the issue -- corruption does not spread)
10. editing an in-game sim in CAS by using the testingcheatsenabled menu, if you try to change traits, favorites, skin tone or body sliders and possibly even star sign (modifying/editing anything on the sim's head is safe, as is changing clothes/makeup/hair/accessories)
11. adding corrupted lots or sims to new games
12. adding lots with corrupted CC to new games

Other Issues

1. clock stopping issue (the clock does not update) that is usually caused by an 'alarm' not being able to fire properly (not really a lag, since everything else still continues)

2. stuck baby/missing sim issue (to fix, go to edit town and move the entire household to the clipboard by evicting just the family, then move them back into their house which will reset the whole house and will not cause anyone to disappear -- make sure when you can get out of game after fixing them, you delete the 4 caches that like to hold corruption in your game, so that instance is gone permanently from your game and can't corrupt your saves)


Original post, below:

I just discovered a bizarre cause for lag/freeze issues. It is hard to believe ....

I was merrily testing one set in my test home (in my no mod, no other CC, vanilla game), while making a collection folder. All was normal. I filled a room with the Club Casual set.

Then I took out all the objects for the new Prius free set and the Prius archive set, which I had just downloaded and installed along with the Club Casual set, placing the eco objects on the grass. I plopped down a couple driveways and compared the regular Prius to the electric Prius (they look almost identical). I deleted the two cars. I deleted the windmill and a couple other largish objects that were in the way.

I went back inside the house to finish testing the first set, and noticed my sim was freezing every couple minutes. Some lags/freezes were fairly prolonged. My heart sank. What in the set was causing this?

I thought back to what I had done, just prior to noticing the problem. Taking out Prius objects and then deleting them should not have caused a problem. It must be an object from Club Casual, but I had never noticed a problem prior to this, and I've used many objects from the set, before.

I quit the game, and restarted it. Still lagging/freezing. I deleted the rest of the Prius sets. No change.

I saved, and quit the game. I removed the DCCache and the DCBackup. Everything I had installed was now out of the game, both the original set I was testing and the two Prius sets that I had just downloaded and installed. My game was vanilla, with all the expansions and stuff packs. No mods, no cheats, no CC at all.

I opened the game and got the "missing objects" notice. I deleted all the objects that had replaced the previous set objects. The upper floor of the test home was empty.

The game still lagged/froze. I was stymied. Was the lot corrupt?

I zoomed out -- and then I saw it. One of the driveways I had so quickly plopped down, to compare the two car versions, had a tree in the middle of it. I had not seen the tree when I placed the driveways, because I had been zoomed in far enough that the tree "disappeared."

I removed the driveways. No more lag. No more freezes. The game played perfectly.

I find this unbelievable. How could a tree in the middle of a driveway cause such a horrendous problem? What about that situation would cause a game to freeze like that, repeatedly?

Oh, and before you assume that it was a routing issue for my sim, she was just trying to play her guitar, fix a meal, read a book, sit on a couch. Nothing to do with cars or driveways. No sims visited during the time I experienced the issue. No cars tried to park in the driveways. I didn't even notice a sim running on the sidewalk in front of the lot.

I do not claim to have any idea what was happening, or why. But as long as the tree remained in the middle of the driveway, I had the problems, and when I deleted the driveways, the problem was gone. A very probable case of cause and effect, because if it wasn't that, then just the placement of a driveway caused the issue, and I very much doubt merely having a driveway on the lot would be the cause.

I thought maybe some of you people with lags/freezes might want to know that the cause may be something as off the wall as what just happened to me. Maybe a tree or bush is too close to your driveway.

This game is so touchy ....


Some of the issues raised there I can probably understand quite well, but some sound a bit paranoid to me. Is it, for example, really game corrupting if you delete EA pre-mades? People keep totally annihilating Sims on a regular basis and EA's story mode does the same, too. Is this maybe bad for a game? My initial reaction was that this is BS advice, but who knows?

So, I'm posting this here because I'd like to have your opinion.

[jenieusa]

According to MANY MANY posts...and what not from EA themselves....its fine....
I do this all the time....

And with SP on....at least half move out within the first few days of play anyway.....which
would make them gone!

[Kestie Freehawk]

I have a longish freeze and then a loud click and it works again. I think I pace myself now so I dont get the lot loading hang but its real dissapointing when it doesnt work right. I could understand the list if I hadnt already learned to correct most of the issues and do that on any lot I download. I do think there is something wrong ... very wrong, especially when both of my computers preform at the same rate and one has 6 gig of memory and 4 cores and the other has 4 gig of memory and 2 cores. I dont think it should be nessicary to clear your own cache, or do the other work around things while expansion after expansion are released.

[MrsNervousSubject]

Some of that stuff, it's common sense that they shouldn't do it. So it's not that the game is touchy, which it is anyway, it's just that they shouldn't do half the things they do. Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should.

P.S - Duh that their game would have a tantrum at them if they uninstalled Awesome and continued to play the game as normal without uninstalling it the correct way.

[noxnoxnox]

Is it, for example, really game corrupting if you delete EA pre-mades?
No :alarm:

[Bejaymac]

Any mention in there about cars becoming your best friend :wtf:

I'm trying to figure out if it's a bug since 1.36 or if my save's corrupt :cry:

[eskie227]

Any mention in there about cars becoming your best friend :wtf:

I'm trying to figure out if it's a bug since 1.36 or if my save's corrupt :cry:

That came with the patch for Fast Lane. It's a "feature" for us to enjoy. It's annoying, but it's not "broken".

[Artimis]

I thought I had one when I put hidden springs on my game and I could'nt get the game to load. I thought that I had broken it and it turned out that I had made a silly mistake ... I forget to reboot the laptop after putting it in.

Silly me :P :jest:

[ButchSims]

deleting Sims with Testingcheatsenabled can sometimes cause glitches, but I think that has more to do with using that cheat, as opposed to deleting the sim.

[RoseCity]

I'll quote the lengthy first post by amjoie, because I think that it contains some rather remarkable stuff:


Some of the issues raised there I can probably understand quite well, but some sound a bit paranoid to me. Is it, for example, really game corrupting if you delete EA pre-mades? People keep totally annihilating Sims on a regular basis and EA's story mode does the same, too. Is this maybe bad for a game? My initial reaction was that this is BS advice, but who knows?

So, I'm posting this here because I'd like to have your opinion.
Random thoughts:
1. Pure conjecture(clarification: the conjecture is on my part): people who play vanilla games become more paranoid because they're constantly afraid they will mess the game up. But they need to play a vanilla game for moments like these when they go on the Forum and want to complain or get help. To prove that it's EA's fault.
2. Maybe some of these problems could be avoided if you had mods e.g. abandoned cars would be cleaned up by Overwatch.
3. Mr Pescado said once in a thread on here that using 'resetsim' could or would corrupt your game, so it should be used sparingly.
4. I don't understand how they were able to put a driveway/parking spot where a tree was - they must play with 'moveobjects' on which probably isn't a good idea but if you do that you should probably always be aware that you could stick something where something else already is. It hardly merited that long story like it was spooky and mysterious, and then the conclusion was 'watch out - this could happen to you and make your game lag' instead of 'be careful - you may make a mistake with moveobjects on'.

[babele44]

Well, it's these that I found to be most remarkable:
1. deleting ANY sim that EA put in the game, whether dead or alive, ghost or urn or tomb, pet or simmie (these sims are coded directly into world layers, and deleting them "shatters/fragments" their coding, leading to game corruption, at its most basic levels) EA sims are NOT regular sims/ghosts/critters/ghost critters -- they are coded into the game layers and have back-stories that keep calling on deep game coding--removing them is NOT an option What does or should "coded directly into world layers" actually mean? This is a point brought up by another user, Writin_Reg, who is always quite vocal about this, and as she's an experienced tester for worlds and was also apparently beta-testing SHT I wonder whether she has a point or not.
2. deleting a lot that has an occupied urn or tomb on it (some are even hidden in attics)
3. deleting EA graveyards (graveyard ghosts are NOT regular ghosts -- they are coded into the game layers and have back-stories that keep calling on deep game coding--removing them is NOT an option) Same here
(...)
7. games without the latest update to Origin, Adobe flash player, Adobe air and/or games with old video card drivers Huh? I for one do not even have Origin installed and Adobe Flash Player and Air, what have they got to do with the game?
(...)
9. moving sims with "moveobjects on" (resetting the Sim usually solves the issue -- corruption does not spread) Well, that's true, although I doubt that it will corrupt a game.
10. editing an in-game sim in CAS by using the testingcheatsenabled menu, if you try to change traits, favorites, skin tone or body sliders and possibly even star sign (modifying/editing anything on the sim's head is safe, as is changing clothes/makeup/hair/accessories) Bummer, I do that all the time, damn!

[tangie0906]

Yes Amjoie was using moveobjects on when the tree ended up in the driveway. And yes it created massive lag which I think shocked her because it never occurred to her that it could cause such a big issue so she was warning others to be careful. A lot of the rest of that post was indeed conjecture. Not by Amjoie, she was actively trying to experiment in-game to reproduce problems, but others like to imagine what's causing problems and their imaginings somehow get turned into absolutes and dictates. Unfortunately a lot of people will believe anyone who sounds authoritative without actually testing out the facts.

I have also experienced massive lag that was caused by 40+ (can't remember the actual number now but it was a LOT) spawners on one lot. There were at least 3 of us testing a user created world and we all experienced the same thing. After the lot was discovered and the spawners removed, none of us had lag. Being able to reproduce problems between multiple players in multiple games matters. I'm sure most of us have had problems now and then that no one else seemed to have and vice versa.

I and others have also experienced stuck sims that spawn inside fenced areas with no gate, mostly service sims like bartenders and booksellers and a few horses. But I have also deleted EA pre-mades, used MOO, and reset sims when necessary and had no issues. So my opinion is that I take it as a caution but always check things out for myself.

PS yeah that stuff about Origin is total bull so that should give you a hint that some of the other stuff isn't true, either. I have also edited sims in CAS on occasion and my game wasn't "corrupted" (whatever that means). :rolleyes: If someone really wants to know, they should organize an experiment with others testing the same things and just try to see if some of these things actually happen.

[RoseCity]

Well, it's these that I found to be most remarkable:
What does or should "coded directly into world layers" actually mean? This is a point brought up by another user, Writin_Reg, who is always quite vocal about this, and as she's an experienced tester for worlds and was also apparently beta-testing SHT I wonder whether she has a point or not.
When I first got the game and checked the Forum for answers, she was always the person, the self-appointed helper, who told people seeking help that their problems were of their own making, as in bad CC, etc or she'd say 'There's nothing wrong with my game so it must be your fault.' which isn't helpful (I think she didn't like EA bashing and not that it isn't annoying when people are saying 'hurry - I'm desperate - SOMEBODY help me PLEASE!!!)
It is mind boggling - this seems like quite an important assertion - something everybody should know - something that should be in the booklet that comes with the game - Don't delete pre-mades or your precious game will die'. Why has it been kept secret? Or is it bulls-t?

I have also experienced massive lag that was caused by 40+ (can't remember the actual number now but it was a LOT) spawners on one lot. There were at least 3 of us testing a user created world and we all experienced the same thing. After the lot was discovered and the spawners removed, none of us had lag. Being able to reproduce problems between multiple players in multiple games matters. I'm sure most of us have had problems now and then that no one else seemed to have and vice versa.

I had that problem too with a downloaded lot. And I think it was Amjoie who posted on Custom Sims about every time you turn the lot when you're placing it - the number of spawners doubled. Why it happened or if it still happens, I never found out.

[jenieusa]

This isn't the Sims 2....you can start SV...delete everyone in town....gone goodbye....kaput---make 1 new sim...
move them into town...and away you go..!!....

[somethingelse]

i'm going to need to go through all this sillyness with a fine toothed nit comb, because all of a sudden, for the last 3 days, i'll start playing my game, i can get in about 5 minutes of play, maybe, then it freezes. i dont *think* any of that stuff applies, but who knows. some of it might, and i do run a few more complicated mods.

DAMNITDAMNITDAMNIT!

[twallan]

2. Maybe some of these problems could be avoided if you had mods e.g. abandoned cars would be cleaned up by Overwatch.


Well a combination of [Overwatch], [ErrorTrap], and [Traveler] would be necessary to correct the majority of serious corruption issues.

I am aware of only a small number of issues that cannot be handled by that trio, and they can usually be corrected by another mod in the suite. :)

[tangie0906]

When I first got the game and checked the Forum for answers, she was always the person, the self-appointed helper, who told people seeking help that their problems were of their own making, as in bad CC, etc or she'd say 'There's nothing wrong with my game so it must be your fault.' which isn't helpful (I think she didn't like EA bashing and not that it isn't annoying when people are saying 'hurry - I'm desperate - SOMEBODY help me PLEASE!!!)
It is mind boggling - this seems like quite an important assertion - something everybody should know - something that should be in the booklet that comes with the game - Don't delete pre-mades or your precious game will die'. Why has it been kept secret? Or did a certain percentage of people already know it?



I had that problem too with a downloaded lot. And I think it was Amjoie who posted on Custom Sims about every time you turn the lot when you're placing it - the number of spawners doubled. Why it happened or if it still happens, I never found out.


Yes, it still happens. Before WA, when you bulldozed a lot, it would also delete the beautiful vistas. I guess the way EA fixed it was to leave all spawners on the lot even after bulldozing. This plus placing the lot in your library, placing it in a 'hood, turning it a few quarter turns to get it facing the right way, saving it again, placing it again, yada yada, this is how you end up with 40+ spawners on one lot, because every quarter turn duplicates the spawners. I've been trying to control-shift-click on the front of the lot and setting it as the front of the lot. So far this seems to help the lot face the street the correct way although if I remember correctly, once I had to give the the lot a quarter turn anyway so I'm not sure it works 100%.

Also, I totally agree that when you have nothing to say other than 'everything is working perfectly in my game, it must be you', then maybe not replying at all is the most helpful thing you can do. :rofl:

[eskie227]

When I first got the game and checked the Forum for answers, she was always the person, the self-appointed helper, who told people seeking help that their problems were of their own making, as in bad CC, etc or she'd say 'There's nothing wrong with my game so it must be your fault.' which isn't helpful (I think she didn't like EA bashing and not that it isn't annoying when people are saying 'hurry - I'm desperate - SOMEBODY help me PLEASE!!!)
It is mind boggling - this seems like quite an important assertion - something everybody should know - something that should be in the booklet that comes with the game - Don't delete pre-mades or your precious game will die'. Why has it been kept secret? Or is it bulls-t?





It's OK. You can add the "hi", because it is bullshit.

[High Plains Gamer]

It seems that just about everything on the list has a common denominator: lots.

How does most custom content enter the game: through lots. Where do most of the routing problems appear: on lots. Where does one use the move objects cheat or the CFE cheat: on lots. Where do we find too many spawners: on lots.

Thus, it seems that 99% of the problems come from poorly made or defective lots. Or perhaps lots which are not properly placed -- like failing to leave two spaces between lots to allow for the passage of horses. Or lots which overlap roads and sidewalks. Also if one turns a lot when placing it, the spawners tend to get duplicated every time the lot is turned.

From this, it would follow that the most effective way to reduce lag is to reduce the number of lots. Not because any given lot is necessarily defective but because with every lot one adds, one increases the chances of adding something which will cause problems.

This is particularly true for downloaded lots where one does not know what the lot builder has done. It may not be immediately apparent if a lot builder has used something like the move objects cheat. Use of things like elevators and spiral staircases are more obvious and should immediately raise a red flag. Yes, even lots transplanted from one of EA's worlds can cause problems.

Tools like Twallan's mods can help one spot problem lots. There are several techniques for using these tools. The one I tend to use is map tags, which allows me to track the location of every sim in the world. If I find a group of sims hanging around on a community lot at 3:00 o'clock in the morning, I know I have a problem. (The easiest solution is to delete the lot.) But even a single sim hanging around on a community lot at 3:00 o'clock in the morning should set off alarms. Problems with residential lots are harder to find, but if a sim's map tag is not moving, it behooves one to make sure the lot is working correctly.

Of course, anything can be overdone. One can have too many sims in the game. (Try to avoid using more than 150 sims.) One can go overboard in placing special effects and spawners. Although this may not cause problems, placing too many trees or other objects may strain the game. In building a world or making objects and clothing, it probably behooves one to try to reduce the number of draw calls and the number of polygons the game has to render. In other words, if you are trying to do something that no one else has done, you probably should ask yourself why no one else has done it. Maybe they know something you don't.

Looking at EA's worlds may be instructive in this respect. EA's worlds typically do not have many lots. Often an EA world has under 100 lots, and I don't think they ever exceed 120 lots. Also, EA worlds tend to leave generous amounts of space between lots. I suspect EA knows what it is doing and understands the limits of its game engine.

[Kestie Freehawk]

No :alarm:

In my opinion doubling the items using MoveObjects causes more lag than anything else. I deleted Goth Manor in my current game and put down a different house because the Goths moved out. They could not leave or enter the lot and the bills were paid. Its not causing lag like some houses do until I delete half of the stuff. They sure are pretty though.

Some of my lag is my fault because nectarys are heavy if you are ageing all the booze, its better to just have 8 to 10 shelves. Once I went to the consignment store and sold every bottle under 5000 thinking it would help, by the time I was done I thought I had crashed the game with just the sale process. My sim walked out with 2 million simolians and then got drops afterwards. That can be hard on the engine because its such a large number of items. There was lag and I diserved it.

[zigersimmer]

This isn't the Sims 2....you can start SV...delete everyone in town....gone goodbye....kaput---make 1 new sim...
move them into town...and away you go..!!....

I used to do that, manually delete every family. Then I Twallanized my game. Now I pick one (single) sim and use Total Annihilation to clean everyone out in one major nuke attack, then delete the sim I picked and move in my own sims.

[nikkiforest99]

I use 'destroyallhumans' if I want to clean out a town, since I have both Pescadized (?) and Twallanized my game. ;)

[tangie0906]

It seems that just about everything on the list has a common denominator: lots

(snip of big post)

Looking at EA's worlds may be instructive in this respect. EA's worlds typically do not have many lots. Often an EA world has under 100 lots, and I don't think they ever exceed 120 lots. Also, EA worlds tend to leave generous amounts of space between lots. I suspect EA knows what it is doing and understands the limits of its game engine.


While I agree that sometimes we may be causing our own problems by pushing the game farther than its capacity to go, what's also true is that EA creates worlds that are compatible with the base game only, or with a new EP and the base game. They are also designing for low end pcs. So I'm not convinced that their worlds are an ideal model for the rest of us.

[simsample]

What does or should "coded directly into world layers" actually mean? This is a point brought up by another user, Writin_Reg, who is always quite vocal about this, and as she's an experienced tester for worlds and was also apparently beta-testing SHT I wonder whether she has a point or not.
I think what Writin_Reg is referring to is that the EA premade sims are actually part of the world file itself, so that even if you remove them from your savegame, the sim information is still loaded into game memory when you boot up the game.

This is one of the reasons why some people prefer not to prepopulate custom worlds.


@High Plains Gamer: EA have to cater for the lowest common denominator, whereas custom world makers do not. We have the luxury of being able to make worlds as complex as we like for our own use, as long as our own computer will handle it. Whereas EA have to make sure your average person on a Dell laptop can play.

[RoseCity]

I think what Writin_Reg is referring to is that the EA premade sims are actually part of the world file itself, so that even if you remove them from your savegame, the sim information is still loaded into game memory when you boot up the game.

This is one of the reasons why some people prefer not to prepopulate custom worlds.


So, as far as you know, does that mean that deleting premade sims is 'not an option'? I realized I've never deleted a sim until my most recent game when I deleted an invisible NPC tattoo guy.

[simsample]

Since Writin_Reg has mentioned that it creates problems, I'd tend to believe that since she tests a lot of worlds and plays many hours. I haven't tested it myself, though.

[eskie227]

But if that were true, when EA's own story progression randomly kills off townies, that would suggest that those deaths are either "pre-programmed" (which we know they're not), or they're willing to allow random deaths to corrupt their own game. It's really not logical. You could make the same argument about a random family emigrating. If they were integral to the game structure, those emigrations would also corrupt the game. We know that's not true as well. So killing them off in any other manner shouldn't effect game integrity.

[tangie0906]

She said that sims added by pre-population are OK to delete (since players added them) but sims that EA places are not OK to delete because they are added by 'programming them in'. She's very knowledgeable but she also has an active imagination so she speculates a lot and makes definitive statements about what causes problems with very little actual evidence that they're true. I think it would be far more helpful for several people to test these things to see if they also experience issues before assuming that they are causing problems. Some could well be true (although as I've said some have never created problems for me when I did them), but I'm not inclined to automatically believe them without corroboration from people who have actually tested it in something at least resembling a scientific manner.

If I remember correctly, Amjoie tried to conduct some experiments on deleting a ghost and the sim never really got deleted somehow - I need to re-read what she did again because it's a little vague now. But 'sim residue' could also be caused by the horrible memory creation system, and those bloated game files created by memories could be the cause of game corruption, not deleting the sims.

Edit: For anyone who might be interested, Amjoie's experience with deleting ghosts can be found in the first link to the EA forum that was provided in the first post of this thread, and it's the second from the bottom post on page 4 and continues on page 5. She was not able to delete Bella Goth's ghost in Lunar Lakes because she kept respawning or something. It was pretty interesting and does provide some support for the assertion that EA sims are programmed differently than players sims. I'd still like to see someone who really understands game code to weigh in on the issue but I suppose the truth is there are some things we may never know for sure. I doubt that even EA would be able to explain what players should and should not do in this game. :rolleyes:

[High Plains Gamer]

A weak computer can account for many problems, but lag is not one of them. I think many of us remember the London world, which had so many lots that it broke many games run on weaker computers. (it ran on my I5 processor just fine, however.)

But lag, as a generally rule is ca.used by sims getting stuck. Getting stuck is not a matter of processing power. If your sim gets stuck in a building because the elevator isn't working, no amount of processing power is going to get the sim(s) unstuck. Stuck is stuck.

As far as Written Reg, I cannot imagine a less reliable source. While she may play a lot, she also avoids anything which has the potential to cause problems. She plays plain vanilla games with no cc, and will not play a world which even has a hint of lag. Also, she creates nothing, so has no first hand experience in how things, including worlds, are made. Everything she posts is second hand information. I would actually prefer to hear directly from the source of her information, or at least have her identify the source. If it's a sim guru, that probably is reliable. If its just some gamer on the net, then I would take it with a grain of salt. If one does not make worlds, and one does not play problem worlds, one really has no experience dealing with problem worlds.

[jenieusa]

However when starting a new town...half the pre-population gets deleted by the game itself within the first week of play...
if you play with SP on....

If this were the case...then 4 EA made towns i have now are doomed...that would be

BB--55 week in..good bye to the graveyard
LL--24 week in..good bye to the grave yard
HS--30 week in..and bye bye to the graveyard
LP--8 week in.....oh i kept this one for now....

[nikkiforest99]

Ok, so I've read through the thread posted above...and I have come to the conclusion that these people have no clue what they're talking about. These examples are just the things I noticed:

"so you can imagine what happens with those files when people just up and delete them - they fragment and the game keeps acting as is they are there. (OP: Writin_Reg)
No they do not. I'm assuming OP is saying that the game tries to reference them after they're deleted--which it doesn't. This isn't TS2. Once a sim, even a premade sim, is deleted, it's gone. I've played in worlds where I deleted premades with absolutely no issues whatsoever, for a pretty long time. And plenty of other people have too.

From my understanding when you uninstall awesome the save game is no longer any good (OP: Writin_Reg)
There's an 'uninstall' command in AwesomeMod for a reason. And that's to remove anything from the mod that's running in the world.

maybe once her whole story plays out the game will get rid of her. (OP: Writin_Reg)
OP was talking about the dead Bella Goth in Lunar Lakes, and how someone was apparently having issues moving her tombstone out of the graveyard. To which her response was to move her to a house she has descendants living in, because apparently then the game would play out the rest of her story. I won't even go into this one.

but anyway he mentioned that certains ones were pretty much like old Mrs. Crumplebottom was in Sims two - (although she was not a ghost) but Killing her or letting the Vampire bite her or even playing with her in a household was opening the door to total game failure - in fact if i recall rightly when you looked at her files in Simpe she was not even a Sim, but was an object. Of course I don't have a Simpe like that for Sims 3, so I have no clue what the game sees the special sims as - but I do recall being told that trying to remove any of the backstory characters would badly affect the game programming. (OP: Writin_Reg)
This is just wrong. Comparing the NPCs in object.package to the premade ghosts is just so wrong, on so many levels. Whoever OP got this from clearly didn't understand the NPC objects at all, for if any of the above events were to happen to Mrs. Crumplebottom, it would require complete game reinstallation. And she apparently isn't aware of S3PE, or how she could research these sims by looking at their files in this program.

but in EA's worlds there were sims she could not remove no matter how many layers of the world she removed. They would just meander about waving up at her every now and then. (OP: Writin_Reg)
OP is talking about someone named Drowssap, and her experience dismantling the premade worlds. Apparently, that happened when she tried to delete premade sims. Do you think this really happened, and is really what she thinks it is?

Core mods are rewrites of the game. Major code is changed. One reason that it works to depopulate a world with the awesome mod is that he has re-written the code to allow for depopulation, in compliance with the rest of the changes he made in the core code. His game is not the game EA wrote, in that sense. Awesome mod is NOT an add-on mod. It is a changed game, at the most basic levels. (OP: amijoe)
This is true, in a sense, but I doubt even Pescado could change such an apparently deeply coded process. AwesomeMod does change many game behaviors, and it is a rewrite of the game's core files, but Pescado doesn't meddle in deep game files. Mainly because when you do that, that's when things start exploding.

Since you have to choose between core mods, I have not used Twallen's (OP: amijoe)
Clearly OP doesn't know anything about the differences between Twallanware and AwesomeMod, as even Twallan's core mods are compatible with Awesome. Most of Twallan's mods are script hacks, which are unlikely to conflict with anything.

know some people choose to use both mods together, but as fast as this game changes, and a complex as the core seems to be, I think asking two core mods to play nicely with each other is like taking part in a game of Russian Roulette. (OP: amijoe)
This is dumb. If your game's going to break, it's not because 2 completely compatible core mods are going to suddenly decide to conflict with each other. Like crnrict pointed out in the next post, the only Twallan hack that might have issues with AwesomeMod is Woohooer, and it's only if you enable a feature in both mods that's disabled by default in both mods. And what idiot would do that anyways?

That's just a short summary of the completely erroneous and unproven statements (yes, I know I sound like a lawyer right now) I found in this thread. And I don't believe that any of this (besides the things on the list that have been proven by experienced modders) is cold, hard fact. As far as I can see, all of this is based on 'they said this happened' accounts, which obviously may be someone misunderstanding what they saw or mistaking a one-time glitch as a proven problem with something. I'm not denying this because Pescado didn't say it, or Twallan didn't say it, or whatever. I'm denying this because I don't see real evidence from someone who has actually explored and understood the code of the game. And most of the people posting don't understand how the game, or the hacks they're using, even works. These people are just following the rumors and apocrypha spread around by the community, and by people who don't understand what they're saying. I'm not sure I believe anything they say without hearing it from a reliable source.

TL;DR: Many things on the list, especially the bit about deleting sims, are bullshit; and these people don't know a damn thing about the hacks they're using or the way the game works.

[tangie0906]

Regarding the Drowsap info - yes, I remember reading that thread way back when. Drowsap figured out how to open a pre- made world and tried to delete the sims in it but couldn't figure out how. And as I said before, most of the rest is speculation. As in, 'if she can't delete them, they must be added differently by EA and therefore X must be true'. "X" is based on imagination and speculation (i.e. hunches) and yes, a great deal of experience and knowledge of the game. She definitely has a great deal of knowledge of the game but apparently little understanding of logical analyses or scientific inquiry. As far as I know, she also doesn't know anything about game code or the tools available to examine it.

By the way, I'd love to hear from simmers who have never done any of these things and whether or not it has saved them from lag and "game corruption" (this term is way too vague for me, I would like to know how they interpret that).

[simsample]

But if that were true, when EA's own story progression randomly kills off townies, that would suggest that those deaths are either "pre-programmed" (which we know they're not), or they're willing to allow random deaths to corrupt their own game. It's really not logical.
Ah, but there's a difference to killing them (which keeps a reference on the family tree, and a gravestone if there are friends) and deleting them. I assumed from the contaxt that Writin' Reg was referring to deleting the sims from a vanilla game (i.e, sticking them on the clipboard and deleting). There's also a difference between the EA delete and Twallan's total annihilation. Either way, the sim information is still in the world file, so is still loaded into game memory whenever that world is played (or whenever the game is played, in the case of the EA worlds).


but in EA's worlds there were sims she could not remove no matter how many layers of the world she removed. They would just meander about waving up at her every now and then. (OP: Writin_Reg)
OP is talking about someone named Drowssap, and her experience dismantling the premade worlds. Apparently, that happened when she tried to delete premade sims. Do you think this really happened, and is really what she thinks it is?
Ah yes, that's referring to this:
http://modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=469942
It's tricky, even with Awesomemod or Twallan's mods, to remove sims cleanly from a world file. You run total annihilation and the little sods are still standing outside the front door when you go back into CAW. So this does not reflect deleting sims in-game at all.

[applefeather2]

God, I am so confused... Is it wronggggg to delete a sim via the clipboard?
EDIT
Answer to self: It is WRONG - Deja vu to Sims 2:
_Quote Twallan's Page_: There are several methods of deleting sims from your game:
Evict the sim while in Edit Town, and then leave them in the clipboard when you return to Live Mode
This is not a clean method of deleting sims.
Under EA Standard this approach can lead to corruption issues which will bounce your game.
http://nraas.wikispaces.com/General+Issues+FAQ#Sim%20Deletion
Double note to self: EA does not tell you this, anywhere/any-shape-any-form. Thanks, EA. So much.

[jenieusa]

God, I am so confused... Is it wronggggg to delete a sim via the clipboard?

Well if it is...then i guess its EA's fault for giving us the delete button....

[babele44]

I think I remember that Pescado once said that it was safe to delete Sims in Edit Town if you use Awesome. No mentioning of pre-mades, though.
And I guess that twallan's Total Annihilation is a custom made command.

Maybe one or both of them might feel inclined to comment on that? :hint:

[twallan]

Ah, but there's a difference to killing them (which keeps a reference on the family tree, and a gravestone if there are friends) and deleting them.


Here's some additional detail: http://nraas.wikispaces.com/General+Issues+FAQ#Sim%20Deletion


There's also a difference between the EA delete and Twallan's total annihilation.


Here ya go : http://nraas.wikispaces.com/MasterController+FAQ#Total%20Annihilation


Either way, the sim information is still in the world file, so is still loaded into game memory whenever that world is played (or whenever the game is played, in the case of the EA worlds).


I believe that creating a new town-file from world-file is a stamping process. The sim information in the world-file is copied over to the town-file, and from then on it is accessed from the town-file only.

It may indeed be initially loaded when the world-file is processed to receive the terrain and such, however after that any world-file sim data is purged in favor of the town-file's copy.

:)

[applefeather2]

Well if it is...then i guess its EA's fault for giving us the delete button....
Yes. It is.
And they will weep large tears when it corrupts my game, right? Right! :alarm:
Edit: I will study Twallan's two links above. Meanwhile, I will hurry-age the sim to his/her death and write terrible things on his/her tombstone. :faceslap:

[tangie0906]

Thanks, Twallan - lots of helpful info in those threads, some of which I have read before but apparently forgot. ;)

I take from this that as far as deleting sims, it is OK but Errortrap is recommended to clean up EA's bad coding just in case something goes wrong. And actually, I use lots of your mods because they clean up a lot of EA's bad coding - plus they allow me choices that EA has taken away with TS3. Thanks a million for weighing in and providing info, and most of all for providing your indispensible mods. :lovestruc :D

[simsample]

I believe that creating a new town-file from world-file is a stamping process. The sim information in the world-file is copied over to the town-file, and from then on it is accessed from the town-file only.

It may indeed be initially loaded when the world-file is processed to receive the terrain and such, however after that any world-file sim data is purged in favor of the town-file's copy.

:)
That's good to know. That's the way the caches are supposed to work too, but people occasionally have problems where the EA world static caches are overriding the dynamic caches, so causing problems such as lots vanishing from low detail view.

[twallan]

I can only speak for the sim data in this case. Images and caching data are not controlled by scripting. :)

[babele44]

So, if I understand this correctly, there's no difference, however, whether a Sim is EA pre-made or user made when it comes to deleting it. The risks of having leftovers of these Sims in the game applies to ALL of them?
And accordingly editing traits, names, CAS appearance etc. of pre-mades should be as risky or risk-free as that of any other Sim.

And another question: your FAQ mentions the "bad" deletion method as "clipboard-diving", i.e. moving Sims to the clipboard in Edit Town and going back to the game with them still in the clipboard and thus subsequently deleting them. But what if I delete them from the clipboard first before going back to the game. That's what I usually do before I start a new neighbourhood. MasterController's functions are only available when the game is already running and story mode, coworker or role manager could already have assigned the Sims I want to delete some task. And this is something that I have always imagined as being worse than deleting them right away from the start.

[twallan]

But what if I delete them from the clipboard first before going back to the game.

Same result. :)

[eskie227]

OK, so as to avoid confusion, killing a sim by fire, electrocution, drowning, starving, either by staging the event, or using something like force kill in MC, is all safe to do. The same applies to total annihilation. It's not a good idea to delete them using the clipboard method. Can we agree on this as a reasonable and simple to remember guideline?

In addition to the clipboard assassination method, I would imagine the same not too great an idea would apply to deleting a sim using the moveobjects on, which I've seen mention of, but have never tried myself.

[twallan]

Sure, killing them in-gme, and retaining their urnstone does not produce any garbage, namely because you have not actually deleted anything. The full sim description is being retained by the urnstone.

Deletion via "moveObjects on" doesn't actually delete the sim at all, it merely removes the in-game body for the sim. In the case of homeless sims, those sims are placed into hibernation until they are required later.

:)

[Kestie Freehawk]

I just experienced the longest lag in the game since I started this map mid june, upon return from Egypt where I had cloned all the Egypt books for a bookworm using a community omni plant garden my system hung and the windows of the property showed green. I suspect that was once again someone trying to relay in and use my main game while I was using WA -- I have had trouble with that before and more than once EA has had to pick the lice off. Suspicious things like my Origin showing a game playing when I am playing so there are two lines playing instead of the top one, or dates showing up that should not be attached to the game that isnt the top one. For instance WA showing played today when FL is my launcher and the only game that should play. So I think that this lag crash had to do with someone trying to use my copy over the WiFI even though I have never allowed for that. Up till last friday I couldnt use my FL button in the launcher but had to use the WA one .... That is just the worst feeling, like you cant even own your own computer and software. If I play with the internet off they just get to use them ..... If I have it plugged in I get all the benifit of EA flashing all this stuff at me to buy but none of the privacy I would need to buy anything .... Real big problem for EA ..... And then tech support wants to load on a pile of crap about Sims 2 anygame launcher when I have never used it and it halts any other game from launching. Stuff like that is so stupid sometimes I just let it go as paranoia ... but the date shows in Origin ... Playing shows in Origin .... Which was not around during Sims 2.

[Srikandi]

I just experienced the longest lag in the game since I started this map mid june, upon return from Egypt where I had cloned all the Egypt books for a bookworm using a community omni plant garden my system hung and the windows of the property showed green. I suspect that was once again someone trying to relay in and use my main game while I was using WA -- I have had trouble with that before and more than once EA has had to pick the lice off. Suspicious things like my Origin showing a game playing when I am playing so there are two lines playing instead of the top one, or dates showing up that should not be attached to the game that isnt the top one. For instance WA showing played today when FL is my launcher and the only game that should play. So I think that this lag crash had to do with someone trying to use my copy over the WiFI even though I have never allowed for that. Up till last friday I couldnt use my FL button in the launcher but had to use the WA one .... That is just the worst feeling, like you cant even own your own computer and software. If I play with the internet off they just get to use them ..... If I have it plugged in I get all the benifit of EA flashing all this stuff at me to buy but none of the privacy I would need to buy anything .... Real big problem for EA ..... And then tech support wants to load on a pile of crap about Sims 2 anygame launcher when I have never used it and it halts any other game from launching. Stuff like that is so stupid sometimes I just let it go as paranoia ... but the date shows in Origin ... Playing shows in Origin .... Which was not around during Sims 2.

If you actually think somebody can directly access the programs on your computer's hard drive through your WiFi, you have REALLY serious security problems :) Highly unlikely though, a normal setup wouldn't support that. Of course, you should make sure your WiFi has a password enabled, and if it does, change the password... you don't want people slowing down your internet by stealing bandwidth.

Much more likely that somebody has the login info for your EA account... and you can solve that easily by changing THAT password.

However, it's also possible that you're just experiencing Origin bugs, of which there are plenty :p TS3 does not require hackers to be unstable and crashy, and Origin is worse.

[Kestie Freehawk]

If you actually think somebody can directly access the programs on your computer's hard drive through your WiFi, you have REALLY serious security problems :) Highly unlikely though, a normal setup wouldn't support that. Of course, you should make sure your WiFi has a password enabled, and if it does, change the password... you don't want people slowing down your internet by stealing bandwidth.

Much more likely that somebody has the login info for your EA account... and you can solve that easily by changing THAT password.

However, it's also possible that you're just experiencing Origin bugs, of which there are plenty :p TS3 does not require hackers to be unstable and crashy, and Origin is worse.

That is entirely possible, it just causes paranoia which it shouldnt since its supposed to be for my entertainment. Thats what I paid for, a dollhouse not this kind of worry. I have never shared the login so how would someone know it? Isnt that the same thing? AGGGGGGggggggg....... I am playing from under the table with tinfoil on my head from now on *LOL* It is sort of like having Windows 7 on two computers with the same licence. I did this once by mistake and had to call Microsoft to straighten it out, I used the same disk to reload both computers, and neither worked right until I callled. They were both laggy and the drivers would bugger all the time. I did it by mistake but I see the same thing when my game gets buggy, like someone has guessed my licence information and is messing with it. That shouldnt happen but it did in Sims2, when I reloaded Mansions and stuff someone else had already used my licence and I had to have a new one. The game was buggy until it stopped. I think that is what is happening here with one of my games and is causing the errors and lag.

[Srikandi]

The Sims is not an online-only game. It doesn't have to connect to the Internet at all to play. So you're right, you shouldn't be having these worries ;) Just don't log in and play offline. If you really want to not worry, set your firewall to prevent the Sims from talking to the Internet at all.

However, I want to reiterate that though hackers could mess with your Origin account, or your EA account... they really can't realistically mess with your GAME, since it's not an online game. Lagginess and bugginess come from somewhere else.

I have never shared the login so how would someone know it?

Hackers have a lot of ways of getting access to your account information for any online account. The most common are "Phishing" (getting you to reveal it through deceptive emails etc), keyloggers or other malware (viruses on your computer which send information about your activity to the hacker), and brute force hacking (guessing your password, or a CD key, by trying every possible combination). Most people have pretty bad passwords, actually... common words, names etc that can easily be guessed.

Not generally a big issue with the Sims, since TS3 accounts don't have a lot of real monetary value, but in the case of MMOs and similar games (where accounts or the goods associated with them are worth real money), thousands of accounts are stolen every day... mostly from people who SWEAR they didn't tell anyone their password ;)

[chreai]

Not generally a big issue with the Sims, since TS3 accounts don't have a lot of real monetary value, but in the case of MMOs and similar games (where accounts or the goods associated with them are worth real money), thousands of accounts are stolen every day... mostly from people who SWEAR they didn't tell anyone their password ;)

I agree. Someone tried to hack my WoW account once by sending me a "warning" in-game that I had violated a policy or something and that I had to submit my username and password to the provided link in order to prevent my account from being frozen. Or something like that. I almost fell for it too, cuz the website it directed me to looked pretty official. Then I got smart, notified Blizzard of the incident and had my password changed immediately. Seriously, these hackers can get pretty sneaky!!

[High Plains Gamer]

Actually, your Sims3 accounts do have value.

For example, all of your store purchases are accessed through your account. While you probably have already downloaded any store items, this still serves as a convenient "cloud" archive for your store items.

A hacker can download any items you have purchased from the store. Also, they have access to your sim points. If you have a large number of simpoints, or if you buy a large packet of simpoints, those can be stolen by someone who has access to your account.

To log into the Sims 3 forums, you need a valid password.

To get technical support, you need a valid password.

The typical MO for a hacker is to change your password, once they get access to your account. They will also change your e-mail address.

Some sites will send you an email whenever you or someone else tries to change a password or email address. The Sims is NOT one of those sites.

[zigersimmer]

@High Plains Gamer: EA have to cater for the lowest common denominator, whereas custom world makers do not. We have the luxury of being able to make worlds as complex as we like for our own use, as long as our own computer will handle it. Whereas EA have to make sure your average person on a Dell laptop can play.
EA does not have to do that, they choose to do that. Cheap laptops are not for gaming of any kind beyond solitaire.

[simsample]

EA does not have to do that, they choose to do that. Cheap laptops are not for gaming of any kind beyond solitaire.
I would argue that EA do have to do that- they have stockholders and so are obliged to make money. The fact that they cater for lower end computers at all shows that they deem it necessary for their business, and modders have found game code which shows some consideration for those with lower end machines. Presumably EA knows the demographic of hardware used by players, from surveys, forum/ tech support and data collection.

[Srikandi]

A hacker can download any items you have purchased from the store. Also, they have access to your sim points. If you have a large number of simpoints, or if you buy a large packet of simpoints, those can be stolen by someone who has access to your account.

OK... but is there a black market for simpoints or Store items where you can turn them into real world currency? Seems highly unlikely to me, since if you want to obtain store items illegitimately there are other, much easier means :p Which is not typically the case with MMOs and other online games. And there is really no other use for Simpoints.

When I mentioned "value", what I had in mind was converting the account into hard cash.

[zigersimmer]

4. placing too many lots with the in-game world editor tool (it breaks a key component used in world creation, that can only be fixed in CAW, which means a saved game is broken beyond repair) -- an increasingly worsening problem with every expansion since LN)

As I always place new plots with the world editor in-game, I am very interested in the opinions of experienced world creators and world fixers regarding this.

I would argue that EA do have to do that- they have stockholders and so are obliged to make money. The fact that they cater for lower end computers at all shows that they deem it necessary for their business, and modders have found game code which shows some consideration for those with lower end machines. Presumably EA knows the demographic of hardware used by players, from surveys, forum/ tech support and data collection.
It is still their choice. They could choose to ramp things up if they wanted.

[tangie0906]

I place new lots in just about every world I play - and I play a lot of them. Most of the time I have no problems placing lots, but there have been times when it seemed to mess up routing. For example in one world that I played, I placed a lot and put a club on it. After that the sims would do this strange looking move where they would angle across the street before getting in their cars. I also have another save where every lot in the world was placed by me, and there are a bunch of them. I do get hesitations and a bit of lagging in that save but it's difficult to say whether this is due to placing lots with the world editor or whether it's just because it's a very large, very populated world with a crap-ton more lots than you find in most worlds. :giggler:

Another time, in yet another world, my sims started traveling underneath the top layer of the world. There was a section of the road where they would go underground and then pop back up a short distance away. I was actually able to move the camera down as if it were a basement and view the sims running underneath the lots (couldn't do that unless there were sims down there). That was about the strangest thing I ever saw in a sims game. :blink: *

Most of the time though, I can't say I have problems with it. But it's probably a good idea to add them a few at a time and make multiple saves if it's a game that's important to you, because you never know.

* Pics or it didn't happen, right? :D

Here is a shot of a car just coming back to the surface after traveling underneath the road. The houses you see in the background were placed on lots that I added with the World Editor.

http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af107/TangieCat/SinkingCar.jpg


Here is a shot of a deer that ran by. As you can see, (s)he is sinking down underneath the lot. You can see its legs at the top of the second shot, along with the sim that was running home but was underneath the world. He was angling all over behind the lots I placed before finally making his way back to his house.

http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af107/TangieCat/sinkingdeer.jpg

http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af107/TangieCat/undergroundPic.jpg

[zigersimmer]

post with images
I have not seen anything like that in my games (yet). But that sort of thing could be happening to my townies without my knowledge. Maybe I've just been lucky so far.

[tangie0906]

I'd never seen anything like that before, either! It was quite bizarre. But like I said, most of the time I don't experience any noticible problems by placing lots. Even when I do have issues like a bit of lagging I can't definitively blame this on lots that I placed, and not some other source. Goodness knows there's a lot that can go wrong in this game.

Anyway, if I couldn't place my own lots I'd probably just quit playing this game. I literally don't think I could play without placing lots of my own. ;)

[jenieusa]

i have seen shots like those in my 3rd party worlds.....

I for one am glad they finally gave us the lot placements....Sunset Valley was aweful in the beginning.....

[High Plains Gamer]

EA does not have to do that, they choose to do that. Cheap laptops are not for gaming of any kind beyond solitaire.

Not always true. I have a laptop with a 17" screen, an I7 processor and 6gb of ram. (As a 32 bit application, the Sims can only access 4 gb of that memory). It's faster than the desktop which predated it by about a year. However, it's not as fast as my latest desktop.

However, one does not find a laptop like that at WalMart. The trouble with laptos is their power comes at a premium. My laptop cost about $1,300, whereas my faster desktop was about $800 (without a monitor). A powerful laptop comes at a price.

The limitations of older machines is why I do not hold out a lot of hope for the Sims 4, if and when, EA releases it. I suspect they have gone about as far as they can go with a 32 bit systems. Sims 4 really needs to be 64 bit to go much farther. Even with the Sims 3, we are seeing computers straining.

Perhaps they could optimize their code more to squeeze more out of it. But there is only so much they can do.

[zigersimmer]

$1300, while not a true gaming laptop, is also not a cheap laptop. Most people buying laptops today spend under $500, then they whine about how they can't play games on it. I spent $1800 building a new gaming rig last November. A commercial laptop with comparable specs would set you back close to $5000.

[eskie227]

$1300, while not a true gaming laptop, is also not a cheap laptop. Most people buying laptops today spend under $500, then they whine about how they can't play games on it. I spent $1800 building a new gaming rig last November. A commercial laptop with comparable specs would set you back close to $5000.

Actually, a laptop for any money couldn't be built to match that type of desktop. It's impossible to dissipate that much heat from the form factor. Besides, a dirty little secret the video giants don't like to mention, but the mobile version of their GPUs, even if using the same designations as their desktop cards (ex. 580M vs 580) are NOT the same chips. The mobile version are made to operate at lower power consumption, at lower clock speeds. Example ATI 7700 M series 675 GHz engine clock, 64 GB/s memory bandwidth, 1000 MHz memory clock, 691 GFLOPS single precision computing. ATI 7750 (current bottom of the 7700 series) 900 GHz clock, 92 GB/s memory bandwidth, 1125 MHz memory clock, 819 GFLOPS single precision computing. And guess which one is cheaper? BTW, Intel does the same with their mobile chips too, so I'm not just singling out the GPU makers out there.

There have been a few specialty manufacturers out there who have built "gaming" laptops for lots of money. They will even use desktop components to match performance, and have all sorts of proprietary cooling schemes to keep from burning your thighs. Unfortunately, laptop is a misnomer. Portable computer with hinged screen is better, as they weigh a ton, and need to be plugged in, unless you don't mind a <1 hour battery life.

That is not to say a well equipped, and expensive for what you get, laptop can't run TS3 really well. Discrete graphics systems are a must, and a quad core CPU with 8 or more GB RAM will perform real well (yes, I know TS3 only uses 4 GB, but you need room for everything else running in the background). But dollar for dollar, you can't get a gaming laptop that will ever approach a gaming desktop, which might not be crucial for TS3, but is if you play more demanding games.

[eskie227]

The limitations of older machines is why I do not hold out a lot of hope for the Sims 4, if and when, EA releases it. I suspect they have gone about as far as they can go with a 32 bit systems. Sims 4 really needs to be 64 bit to go much farther. Even with the Sims 3, we are seeing computers straining.

Perhaps they could optimize their code more to squeeze more out of it. But there is only so much they can do.

I absolutely agree, and have posted the same in other threads. TS4 will have to move to a 64 bit engine to offer the kind of features and performance we want to see with the next iteration. It will also force the community to step up to more contemporary hardware, which isn't a bad idea for most. I will say that I got more out of my last machine, a Duocore, almost 5 years, than I did out of any other box I ever had. Usually I was on a 3 year (OK, sometimes 2) replacement cycle. My current i7 is doing real well with TS3, and other goodies, as life is not ONLY TS3. I still have room to grow with it (yes, I want an SSD now, and will upgrade my video card with the next product cycle) and expect to be using it for quite some time to come. But 64 bit is the way EA will have to take many of their pc franchises if they want to be leaders in performance (fine, not leaders, which isn't EA's strategy, but at least competitive).

[Kestie Freehawk]

I think as the game gets more complex the exchange lots have trouble because how things were done when Sims3 first came out is different than now and channels that were empty when the game started are now being used. It can look rather awkward when something that might have genuis when discovered has a real use that was not what you were using it for. I have to delete the lot when that starts, which might be better for all involved.

[High Plains Gamer]

But dollar for dollar, you can't get a gaming laptop that will ever approach a gaming desktop, which might not be crucial for TS3, but is if you play more demanding games.

I don't think anyone is disputing this. At least, I posted that laptop performance comes at a premium in cost. (Generally, a laptop will cost 150% of a comparable desktop.).

But then again, some of us use our computers for other things. For example, when I go on the road (as a landsman) the computer is my everything machine. I can take it to the courthouse for researching land titles, get on the Internet to look up other data, stream movies and play games in my off hours while in the motel room.

I can see why a student might want to take one to class to take notes, or even record a lecture.

It can be used to store MP3 files, or play DVD's. It has a portability one does not have with a desktop, and in many ways is easier to use than an I-pad.

But for a price. (But for professional or business uses, price is less of an issue).

[eskie227]

High plains, you're absolutely right. Laptops are versatile, portable, and, so long as you accept paying a premium, a great way to perform multiple tasks with one machine. I certainly wouldn't give mine up. I just find that in many of the threads I've read here, folks are frustrated that their brand new, but entry level laptops can't run TS3 well (or at all). Then there's the issue that typically a laptop offers few, if any, paths to upgrade to increase performance. Folks need to spend a little time figuring out what their requirements will be, and accept that a certain level of performance cannot be attained at bargain basement prices.

I also blame EA for the problem players run into, as the minimum requirements they post on the box are simply insufficient for the way some users play with the game (more than 1 EP, some cc and mods). I can understand the frustration of someone who looks over the minimum specs EA provides, buys an inexpensive machine that meets (or exceeds) those specs, and finds out that the specs were misleading.

[fairycake89]

well ... I just remodelled the Goths house (Goths moved by me to a suitable hovel) in SV and removed the on-site graves... and so basically I'm screwed?

I don 't believe it for a second, game is running fine. The reason the game is running fine is more likely due to the fact that I finally uninstalled Pets and WA .... And I am sure the reference to critters actually means bloody pets ...