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Forum Resident
#2426 Old 26th Jan 2015 at 6:40 AM
@SimGuruGraham

Are you worried about the possible future of the Sims that EA may refuse to continue on to Sims 5 if the Sims 4 doesn't sell as expected? Does the company have exclusive rights to people simulators?

Avatar model: Shi Gaik Lan / Atroxia "Jade Orchid" Lion (Source: Dynasty Warriors 8 Empires).
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#2427 Old 26th Jan 2015 at 7:03 AM
I get that the goal is for people to behave themselves with civility and decency, but when you're constantly shut out, quarantined, or flat out ignored, it does wear down the natural tendency to rein in tempers. I mean, I take offense every time the Sims community is asked for feedback and suggestions on how to make S4 better. When they get the same feedback over and over again, their answer is "Too time-consuming, too expensive, too hard...so tell us what could make S4 better..." This happens over and over again, and it's a vicious cycle that would drive anyone mad. You'd have to be a saint to maintain a respectable level of civility and decency through that kind of abuse.

I guess I don't see the receptacle as a trashbin, though. I see it as a place for the unfiltered truth. I like that anyone from the S4 team will not be coddled and handled with kit gloves here, because frankly, they perpetuate this crap storm.
1978 gallons of pancake batter
#2429 Old 26th Jan 2015 at 7:18 AM
Quote: Originally posted by ldms510
I get that the goal is for people to behave themselves with civility and decency, but when you're constantly shut out, quarantined, or flat out ignored, it does wear down the natural tendency to rein in tempers.{...}
I can somewhat relate to that. A feeling of being powerless/helpless against something you feel is unjust can cause a lot of aggression. But if you feel that way, I kindly ask you to step away for the time being and come back level-headed.

If gotcha is all you’ve got, then you’ve got nothing. - Paul Krugman
Forum Resident
#2430 Old 26th Jan 2015 at 7:20 AM
Quote: Originally posted by lil bag2
Just one quick question Graham...why are sims no longer movable with the moveobjects cheat? Kinda fucked the storytellers and photagraphers over there :/


I'd like to know too, it really hurts the storymakers that you can't move sims so I'll put my vote in asking Graham this too instead of personally attacking him or anything.

Haha, I feel like whenever a developer or producer or anyone that has any influence or official standing with any game they should be read their Miranda Rights. I'll just say I respect Graham (Sorry, Grant, Graham, I get you two confused...) for coming in here, I follow a lot of games and stuff and it's really uncommon to see someone post on a unofficial forum like this that isn't a AMA on Reddit.

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Instructor
#2431 Old 26th Jan 2015 at 7:28 AM
With all this talk about how implementing certain features would be "too hard" for the game, it makes me wonder what is going on with EA's hiring practices, as well as the engine used to develop TS4. On the first part, wouldn't you want to hire developers that CAN do those things? Yes, I know about the common Computer Science rule about diminishing returns on having more developers, but since the current Sims team doesn't appear to be able to make those things, you have to do something about that. As for the second, why did EA decide to use that engine in the first place, knowing that it is extremely limited in features?

Quote: Originally posted by darthesp
WHAT THE FUDGE....

I have 45 minutes left on my free trial. I decided to open it up and kill all the sims I could. Drowning the CAS sim I made was easy. Then I moved to another lot and promptly set a no-cooking-skill guy to making cakes and leaving them in the oven. A fire started. The family crowded around, panicking. I rubbed my hands maniacally, muttering 'Yessss, yessss.' THEN A SPRINKLER CAME ON AND DOUSED THE FLAMES. WHAT THE FUDGE. THERE IS NO SPRINKLER THERE. That is not cool, EA. Not cool at all.


@darthesp That's because TS4 uses sprinklers in place of firemen. The fire alarms don't seem to do much in the game. The sprinkler object itself is a wall placed item that covers your entire house with just one control unit. The drawbacks of the TS4 sprinklers is that they are slow to deploy, and are as nowhere as effective as the TS2 ones. The only advantages of the TS4 sprinklers is that you only need that one unit to cover your entire house, and sims can't pull pranks with them. However, since there are no cow mascots that often pull pranks with the sprinklers, and sims don't autonomously do that, the latter is moot.
1978 gallons of pancake batter
#2432 Old 26th Jan 2015 at 7:31 AM
@nitromon, I will ask you one last time to behave yourself.

If gotcha is all you’ve got, then you’ve got nothing. - Paul Krugman
Lab Assistant
#2434 Old 26th Jan 2015 at 7:58 AM
Wow...that was incredibly considerate of Graham to hunt this thread down and give such a detailed response. Thank you Graham

However, is this thread really the trashbin? It's my favorite thread - "please say it ain't so"
Lab Assistant
#2435 Old 26th Jan 2015 at 9:28 AM
Well, we like feedback too, and I must say I do appreciate Graham's answer. When there's a dialogue, things suddenly feel a lot more civilized. I am more than willing to apologize for my lame jokes directed towards the cushy jobs at EA, though it wasn't directed towards him at all, but rather the appalling handling of PR in general there. I'd say it was more of an immediate reaction to yet more unwelcome tweets the community has already commented on. Graham is right to stand up for his team, that is what decent people do. However, there is a considerable difference in appreciation of said team when you know them personally, and when all you know of them is the sum of their awkward blunders on social media. Ask us to read them unbiased, and that's just stripping us of... wait yes, EMOTIONS! So you have to expect a reaction one way or the other, and Grant's tweets might be at least approved first, if nothing else. Apparently he's volunteering, in which case he might reconsider the extra work, which might not be suited to his particular skills? They do come across as clumsy or rude to say the least. When I say most people would get fired for it, that's actually true. But:

Quote: Originally posted by Idms510
I get that the goal is for people to behave themselves with civility and decency, but when you're constantly shut out, quarantined, or flat out ignored, it does wear down the natural tendency to rein in tempers. I mean, I take offense every time the Sims community is asked for feedback and suggestions on how to make S4 better. When they get the same feedback over and over again, their answer is "Too time-consuming, too expensive, too hard...so tell us what could make S4 better..." This happens over and over again, and it's a vicious cycle that would drive anyone mad. You'd have to be a saint to maintain a respectable level of civility and decency through that kind of abuse.


Guilty! 100%! Thanks for this Idms510. It does drive me mad, and that's not even my temperament. I actually do have a natural tendency to rein in tempers. However, when my favorite hobby gets smashed to pieces for reasons which won't be brought up officially, ever, I turn into a dragon wolf now and then and sarcasm can get out of hand. So I am sorry actually if I hurt peoples feelings, when I joke about Grant wanting to get fired, I really mean it as a joke. But when I read his tweets... he just makes it so easy.

And I think the wolf thing was really just a joke, a kind one at that, made by Mondenkind to calm the thread with a nice sense of humour. Mondenkind always strikes me as a calm, kind, moderated person, that's why I jumped at the occasion and added dragons. I don't think either of us were actually offended by the hyena comment, though I can only speak for myself, but nope, that didn't offend me. It was a mental image, a simile, and not a direct insult, hence the wolf joke. And I think Modenkind was elegantly lightening things up towards some peace and calm. It was just a diversion, and I liked it.
Forum Resident
#2436 Old 26th Jan 2015 at 9:39 AM
After being sarcastic with another company's handling of their abandonware, in a similar standoffish way, I've had enough of making spiteful remarks. That's why I am keeping my tone neutral or not participating when things get heated.

Avatar model: Shi Gaik Lan / Atroxia "Jade Orchid" Lion (Source: Dynasty Warriors 8 Empires).
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Forum Resident
#2437 Old 26th Jan 2015 at 10:04 AM Last edited by Mondenkind : 26th Jan 2015 at 10:36 AM.
Quote: Originally posted by Buzzler
Good attitude. I like it. That being said, I still want people to feel the need to moderate their tone just because of basic human decency. That includes, but is not limited to, not pulling every possibly criticism down to the personal level. Voicing opinions in a way that is actually constructive and not riddled with (underhanded) personal insults, might actually lead to a thread not being moved to the trashbin known as The Receptacle.

Oh, and I can understand that people would rather be compared with wolves or dragons instead of hyenas. Maybe if folks started showing some of the traits associated with the former instead of the latter, that might actually happen. Would be a huge step forward really.


So, this really annoys me because i knew this would happen from the get-go.
I appreciate Graham finally posting on MTS again and i know him well enough from the TS4 chat thread to guess he would post here again to comment on some of the reactions (mine did not get adressed personally this time, but toddler comments never get and it is not his fault), so it was a mistake to move a thread where he posted in here from the start.
This thread, that you call the trashbin, is the only thread secure from sometimes biased moderation and Graham seems to be knowing enough about this to adress this in his post.
Him hunting his comment and the reactions down in here after this thread was seriously interrupted by your moderation must have been a nightmare and now you start to personally insult us by taking a quote about Game of Thrones that was made in good humour to lighten the mood against me and the ones who responded to it.
Now that he posts here, we have to "watch our tone" ( which we do anyway, no participants get attacked or anything), not because of what he wants but because of what you want and i can already see some people "coming" into here who normally don't participate and try to shut our "negativity" down in other threads, which will make this place very hostile again.

Edit: Sorry for all the "knows" instead of "now". I stopped apoligizing for my wrong grammar, because it will never be perfect, but i can see such mistakes are really annoying to read. Changed it.
Lab Assistant
#2438 Old 26th Jan 2015 at 10:15 AM
I still sort of hope Graham doesn't go home after a long day of work, thinking; "OMG I'm going to play TS4! It's awesome and I've only played like 35.675.980 hours, still not bored! Let's make another dollhouse with a North Korean dictator in it, Much better than Minecraft". I just don't think he's that weird. I can't. I won't.
Lab Assistant
#2440 Old 26th Jan 2015 at 10:42 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Mondenkind
Him hunting his comment and the reactions down in here after this thread was seriously interrupted by your moderation must have been a nightmare and now you start to personally insult us by taking a quote about Game of Thrones that was made in good humour to lighten the mood against me and the ones who responded to it.
Now that he posts here, we have to "watch our tone" ( which we do anyway, no participants get attacked or anything), not because of what he wants but because of what you want and i can already see some people "coming" into here who normally don't participate and try to shut our "negativity" down in other threads, which will make this place very hostile again.

Edit: Sorry for all the "knows" instead of "now". I stopped apoligizing for my wrong grammar, because it will never be perfect, but i can see such mistakes are really annoying to read. Changed it.


Thanks for this. I knew your wolves were good humour. Let's be Wolf-Dragons!
1978 gallons of pancake batter
#2441 Old 26th Jan 2015 at 10:57 AM
@Mondenkind, this thread here is not exempt from moderation. It is true that we let things slide here that would be unacceptable anywhere else on the site. That doesn't mean in any way that users were entitled to break the rules here.

I am sorry that you felt you were addressed too by my previous posts to the flaming general public. That was not my intention.

If gotcha is all you’ve got, then you’ve got nothing. - Paul Krugman
Mad Poster
#2442 Old 26th Jan 2015 at 11:12 AM
I tend to view the discussion as being passionate about this game for one reason: most of us have played this series for over 15 years, and the seeming downgrade in the quality of the game from being a full-fledged 'sandbox' to a mobile platform is extremely distressing to many of us. We expected more, and have become jaded, and sore-tempered at what's been done to the series.

We've invested an awful lot of time and emotion into playing this game. We've grown fond of those pixels, who sometimes become extensions of our own egos, or personalities. When something happens in game, we become invested in it to a degree that is rarely seen outside of a gaming platform.

We're used to having more power, quality and performance from 'our game', and when we lash out at people or the company that makes it, it's because we want more of all of those.

I don't like to be personal about who makes this game. It does take a lot of people to develop it, and I understand the inhibitions that employees feel about talking about a product or service. When your own employment restricts you from discussing it, then you have to self-moderate your speech. I do understand that..and the fact that one cannot criticize one's employer in public. Anyone who works in a large corporation knows the rules, and Graham is well-versed in them. Believe it or not, EA, and any large company is always monitoring their employees very public utterances, and we sometimes don't like the restrictions but must adhere to them in terms of employment.

Don't call it being rude, because it isn't. When you are literally identified as working for "X corporation" and allowed by them to post publicly on any media you're representing that company. You have to keep it in mind every single sentence you write. Sometimes what one writes or posts can be taken badly and one would not know it until after the sky falls in. It might be a off-hand joke, but the audience wouldn't know the context. Let it slide.

That all being said, I do appreciate Graham's willingness to come back in to talk to us. It takes a brave soul to willingly step back into the Receptacle where angels fear to tread.

But I just want to know why polar bears were never in any of the iterations? They're awesome animals!

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Forum Resident
#2443 Old 26th Jan 2015 at 11:19 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Buzzler
@Mondenkind, this thread here is not exempt from moderation. It is true that we let things slide here that would be unacceptable anywhere else on the site. That doesn't mean in any way that users were entitled to break the rules here.

I am sorry that you felt you were addressed too by my previous posts to the flaming general public. That was not my intention.



Well, it is good to know you didn't mean to exclude me from the wolves. Now i don't have to rewrite all of my fanfictions (seriously though, Tyrion for the win!).
I know it's not excluded from moderation, but i particularly enjoy the "letting things slide". I know it's not possible if this doesn't stay "the trashbin that was misused by its participants as a serious thread".
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#2444 Old 26th Jan 2015 at 11:27 AM Last edited by kiwi_tea : 26th Jan 2015 at 11:58 AM.
Quote: Originally posted by Anais123
I still sort of hope Graham doesn't go home after a long day of work, thinking; "OMG I'm going to play TS4! It's awesome and I've only played like 35.675.980 hours, still not bored! Let's make another dollhouse with a North Korean dictator in it, Much better than Minecraft". I just don't think he's that weird. I can't. I won't.
Look at it this way: If you had poured hours and hours of your life and passion into developing something, you'd be liable to have a fondness for it too - to really love it and think it was awesome. The question is really whether Graham would like the game if he was on the receiving end of it, and paid full price for it, without all the emotional and professional investment he has. What if he found himself comparing the experience to others games at similar price points? Or, more likely, to the two or three excellent and fully fleshed games he could get on Steam for the same price as TS4's fairly sparse base game (talking NZ prices here, though, don't know if it translates to US well). There is just no way TS4 is value for money, TS3 was already pushing the boundaries of that. Plenty of us doubt he would be quite so fond of it then, but it's a bit pointless indulging in these kinds of thought experiments - there are too many variables. All I really know is I don't consider the game as it stands worth my time or money, which I feel is rather tragic.

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Mad Poster
#2445 Old 26th Jan 2015 at 11:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lewisb40
My question @SimGuruGraham, do you all think we (the fans) are "worth it"?


Quote:
Originally Posted by SimGuruGraham
I can only offer my personal perspective, but yes, I absolutely think Sims fans are "worth it". I'm personally motivated to deliver something to Sims fans that they love, because I understand where you're coming from. I'm just as passionate and care just as much about some other games that I play and love as all of you do with The Sims. I love that about our community and that's what drives me. I try to pour that effort and attention to detail into the features that I work on.


OK, that's fair. I can see your personal perspective and you have proven it when you talk with us, but my question was meant as a whole. I have been using the EAxis (short for EA and Maxis) moniker and that is where my question goes to. I really didn't think I would get an answer, for that I thank you.

I don't know when the rules changed and we are not to hear anything about the game's future. It's frustrating for me because your colleagues post "we can't talk about it" or "we don't know" tend to not put much confidence in whether or not they care, don't think we are "worth it". What was a normal part of the Sims game is now too expensive and too hard to implement, so it's not worth the time and expense. But look! "We gave you some really cool walkstyles and your sims will talk like never before." So I am to take in those actions and forget the generational game play I have enjoyed for 10 years, look at those things as replacement for toddlers or family trees. Family trees can be remedied by "writing it down with paper and pen", wow..."Did they just say that?" was my response. That went a long way at how I look at EAxis as a whole. No one can tell me that was professional.

No, I am not happy but was willing to give it a good try even though this "new" game that was suppose to revolutionize simming fell flat for me. I really tried to push myself to play the "new" way but nothing added didn't take away my wish to see the staples that now are too much to bother by the Sims team. I got tired of it all and the feeling when you discuss the frustration that it's my fault. Too bad you don't like it, you were never a simmer in the first place, you were a fake. The abuse by your Yibbers and their hoards became too much and I left you all alone. I am still going through the stages of grief and I am now in the stage of anger, it reflects when I post about the game now. Sometimes I still look for a morsel of care, something that say "we're worth it" but somehow it's not showing. One thing Graham you can take back to the team from me, a big thank you for breaking me from buying anything about Sims again. Never thought I would be in this state of mind.

ETA:
Quote: Originally posted by Mondenkind
(seriously though, Tyrion for the win!).

A-freaking-men. I just adore that character. :lovestruc

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#2447 Old 26th Jan 2015 at 11:41 AM
Quote:
Family trees can be remedied by "writing it down with paper and pen", wow..."Did they just say that?" was my response.

I genuinely found that response offensive when it came out. Do you remember how it was back then? Everybody sort of in denial about all the things being cut, and actively trying to give EA the benefit of the doubt. I remember the rumours that toddlers and family trees were being cut, and thinking they just couldn't be true, not even EA would be so ruthless and stingy. I even remember coming up with an argument with one of my simmer art school friends that they would KNOW not to cut that stuff cos look how many simmers are also young mothers! I still find it hard to believe what they decided were priorities over what I would have considered the barest basics.

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#2448 Old 26th Jan 2015 at 11:47 AM
My take on it is that Graham is indicating he isn't a Sims player by preference, but he takes a pride in whatever he happens to be working on, and gets job satisfaction from delivering as good a product as he can. I don't know who, or what policies, are to blame, but in the case of The Sims 4 I don't feel it's as good a product as I would have expected being #4 in an evolving list of pretty good products. Actually I think I do know. I think it's cos it was designed to be an online game, which affected the graphics, and they only had one year to add all the features (such as non-adult age groups and a life cycle and family relationships) that people would expect from a real Sims 4. Also one or two senior producers seem to want to protect us from anything that isn't all lovely and happy, making the Simmies' lives seem shallow. Eg even when they're bereaved they can either score skill points from it or cheer up in a second by seeing a painting. In Sims 2, a Sim who had lost a loved one would burst into tears at odd times over a few days, and/or also wake in the night from bad dreams. Also they could get sick and die. Was there a problem with that? Too many complaints from customers?

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Lab Assistant
#2449 Old 26th Jan 2015 at 11:52 AM
Quote: Originally posted by lil bag2
Just one quick question Graham...why are sims no longer movable with the moveobjects cheat? Kinda fucked the storytellers and photagraphers over there :/


No idea. I'll ask the producer who oversaw adding moveobjects back in about it tomorrow if I get the chance.


Quote: Originally posted by TheOriginalFive
@SimGuruGraham
Does the company have exclusive rights to people simulators?


I'm not a lawyer, and this is by no means legal advice or company policy - just my personal take on it. I'd assume it's like any other genre of video game. There are plenty of competing first person shooters out there for example. Common sense would seem to say if you want to make a life simulator... go for it, just don't directly rip off The Sims.


Quote: Originally posted by nitromon
I assure you none of the coders at EA are "gurus," because the company would not allow just anyone to speak publicly about the game or the company. These "gurus" are their public relations suits, people whose career is dedicated to damage control and bsing... ...IF you are not coder, you shouldn't be called a guru.


We actually have multiple engineers that are gurus. Letting anyone on the team have a public presence is precisely what we do. I don't work in PR in any capacity, which is why I'm always accompanied by someone from PR when I give interviews about the game. I'll grant you that it's certainly an uncommon approach, but a welcome one I think. I also find it a bit disparaging to insinuate that only engineers have a worthy voice on the subject of discussing games and how they're made, seeing as they fill one of many vital roles necessary to creating a game.

Sims Producer Graham Nardone - Follow me on Twitter @SimGuruGraham
Department of Post-Mortem Communications
#2450 Old 26th Jan 2015 at 11:52 AM
Is there anyone still upset about the hyenas? Well, when this comment was made first I looked a bit into what could be learned about hyenas and they are really fascinating animals, much more than wolves.

(1) First of all they are more akin to cats than dogs, so, they're practically kittens. And who doesn't like kittens? Just look:

(2) Secondly, the main species of the hyena is matriarchally organised with an elaborate social system that is rare among carnivores. It's also the only mammal where females have an erectile genital. Ladyboners! (sorry, no picture for that!)
(3)Thirdly, among several groups of young men in African countries it is a sign of masculinity, ferocity and utmost respectability to own a hyena as a pet. Wolves and dragons are for sissies!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...wild-hyena.html

BTW, what happened? This thread is suddenly moving lighning fast!
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