I'd like to further explain what I mean by "inelegant", so that everyone will understand why an automated batch file cannot fix the fundamental problem with this method.

When you use clean or empty templates, you are allowing the game to follow a standard "success" path. The game knows how to handle a properly constructed unoccupied neighborhood and behaves correctly.

When you use the AGS method of creating an empty environment, you are also giving the game valid data, which allows the game to follow a standard "success" path. Again, the game knows how to handle the data that it's given and therefore behaves correctly.

However, when you replace the neighborhood package with an empty text file, you are giving the game bad data. The game does not know how to handle this data and must follow an error path. This method relies on the following:
1) The game must have such problems dealing with the (corrupt) data that it ends up skipping the "success" path of installing a neighborhood or subhood.
2) After the error condition has been handled, the game must be able to recover fully and cleanly from the error condition, without the corruption spreading any further, and
3) The game must not crash or otherwise terminate unexpectedly because of the corrupt data.

You were lucky that all three conditions appear to be true in your case, although I'm not sure that #2 has ever been verified and #1 fails for primary neighborhoods. By relying on an error path, your method may not apply in all cases, especially with another operating system or when the code is recompiled, as on the MAC.

You might think of it this way. You have given the game poison. You are hoping that the game will get sick enough to avoid installing the neighborhood or subhood, but will then recover fully with no bad side effects, and will not die. You are lucky that this seems to have worked in your case, but if you try it in other circumstances, there's no guarantee that you'll have these same results. Give someone else the same amount of poison and you may have a corpse on your hands.

In general, relying on error handling is a bad idea. Error handling is often ignored by the programmers and rarely (if ever) tested. Giving a program corrupt data and relying on the results is never an elegant solution to a problem. The Sims 2 is particularly bad in this regard. There's very little testing for error conditions and not much error processing code. This is why we often see corruption spreading throughout your neighborhood once it has started. The fact that the game attempts (unsuccessfully) to "fix" the corrupt data in your installation folder is a good indication that it is really unhappy.

I understand that you may want to continue to use this method, but I don't like to see you recommend this method to other people. No one knows exactly what's happening internally with your method and, because of that, no one can really support this method.

Last edited by Mootilda : 2nd May 2012 at 06:13 PM.

Oh. Oops.

Busted! Well done Moo.

I'll jump in here just for the sake of saying that there's no other way to really make a clean neighborhood other than the MATY tutorial, if you really don't want to blow up your game. It's been used by many, many people with success.

It is a big headache to save all those folders from the game, replace them and do whatever else is needed to be done to get completely clean and empty neighborhoods.

But it does have a good ending: you never have to worry about Maxis corruption again when you start a new hood.

It does go without saying that you should save all the original neighborhoods, as well, doesn't it? That way, you'll have a clean slate to work with every time you use one.

Lord knows, it took me about 4 hours to completely do this whole procedure, and it didn't work the first time-I'd left out one important replacement folder, and had to find that one as well-but it was definitely worth the time and trouble.

Yes, a lot of reading, downloading, and replacing-but for a clean environment, you gotta scrub the whole thing, and make sure the bugs don't come back the next time.

Don't make your own rules in this adventure-others have tried and failed.

Mootilda is considered one of the experts when it comes to hood corruption-if she says it's bad, it's bad.

The AnyGameStarter method will create a "cleaner" neighborhood than the MATY tutorial. I use it all of the time, because I don't like to have all of the stealth subhoods. If people are interested, perhaps I'll write a short tutorial on how to use the AGS method to create a clean neighborhood.

Thank you. However, I'd like to stress that I only did a few preliminary tests. My primary objection to the method is philosophical, rather than empirical. Corrupting the neighborhood package just seems like the wrong thing to do, even if it works out in the end. Error processing is often "undefined" behavior, i.e. there's no guarantee whether the same end result will occur each time, especially given different computers, different operating systems, different EPs, etc.

It's clear that this was an honest misinterpretation of the tutorial, which wasn't precise enough when it talked about "empty" neighborhood packages. I do not believe that there was any hostile intent. I admire perihelion for recognizing his mistake; it takes courage to admit in a public forum that you were wrong.

Last edited by Mootilda : 4th May 2012 at 04:54 PM.

I don't think there was any hostile intent either - I'm referring to the work you did which showed nice and clearly the problems with the method.

Glad that it was helpful.

Please! This would be very useful.

I guess I second that

That tutorial will be appreciated.

OK. I'll write a tutorial when I can. Unfortunately, I'm having major health problems at the moment, which are making it difficult to type. It's possible that I may be more-or-less unavailable for some time.

In the interim, let me give you an idea of how it works by pointing you to the posts about creating an empty neighborhood (posts #2 and #3 and associated links) in this tutorial:
http://www.modthesims.info/showthre...223#post3321223

As long as you don't actually need a neighborhood or subhood, you can remove it from the game by renaming the parent folder (either Neighborhoods or NeighborhoodTemplate) in the installation files. The one exception is the FreeTime hobby subhood (F002), which only has one opportunity to be added to a neighborhood. If you're actually creating a clean neighborhood to play, as opposed to a clean neighborhood template to be shared (as shown in the tutorial), you will probably want to install a clean or empty template for your FreeTime hobby subhood.

Hope that helps until I'm fully online again.

Update: I went through my game files and just deleted all of the neighbourhood template packages. If I want the premade hoods, I can just reload them off the disks. Now there's no premade stuff and no corrupt files.