I understood why Graham used the word 'hyena' (and it doesn't bother me) - because when he showed up in the TS4 thread, people were all over him, trying to get information. Because so little information had been released. And then he started dropping the upsetting bombshells. Which was probably his assignment all along. To parcel out the bad news and try to steer the narrative toward rainbows and lollipops and away from the bad people with their negativity and high expectations.
My dislike of him stems more from his condescension. And when people were upset about what was being revealed about TS4, he was like - too bad, so sad. Hope you change your mind someday. Toodles!
Yes, I'm bitter........

I'm in the midst of the 48-Hour Game Time trial of Sims 4. As I expected, it is quite fun as a game, but lacks the depth and breadth of Sims 2 as a life simulator.

A little background: My oldest son, who introduced me to the Sims in 2002 right after he got out of the Army, had stopped playing Sims some time after Seasons for TS2 was released, though I remain an avid TS2 player to this day. Neither I nor my two boys were interested in TS3, so I was quite surprised when my oldest, now in his 30s, expressed an interest in TS4. I told him about the missing features, but offered to buy it for him for Christmas. Eventually he decided he didn't want it after all, but when this opportunity came up, I invited him over last night and we fired TS4 up.

I had played quite extensively with the CAS demo, so we skipped that part and selected June Kay (cute Sim with short black hair/red tips and Ugg boots) and basically focused on getting her to the top of Culinary, which is what my son liked to do playing Sims 1 and 2, so he enjoyed doing the various tasks to increase her job performance. June is insane and talked to herself a lot, and overall she was pretty amusing to watch as the only sim in the house, and my son and I agreed that we really liked her. She met Bella and a hunky looking guy at the gym that wore a pink baseball cap, and when she was feeling flirty and talking to him, we thought he was blowing her off because he kept working out on the weight machine, but he readily came to her house when she invited him over, sans baseball cap and extremely balding, which struck both of us really funny. Anyway, the multi-tasking is something I would have to get used to, because at the gym I don't think he was ignoring her at all like we originally thought.

Things we liked:
The "reliability" component to buy mode objects (can't remember, does TS3 have that?), and also June became uncomfortable from her cheap bed, so those are an improved touch of realism over TS2, which IMO doesn't have enough incentive to move on from cheap/crappy objects.
We both liked the Sims themselves a lot. They look good, they are charming and engaging, and their movements are very smooth and natural (my big complaint about TS3), no recycled animations that I saw (another complaint about TS3).
Cooking was really fun to watch, got several chuckles out of us, though it took a bit too long IMO.
It has that quality that I have come to expect from all versions of the Sims: we can play for hours and lose track of time getting "just one more promotion, skill point, friend, task, money to get that better bed," whatever!

Things we didn't like:
Interiors are way too dark. TS3's are dull and dark too. Too much bloom in both, I don't like the lighting in either one.
Limitations of modifying in build mode (we couldn't delete an area of floor tiles without walls around them). We didn't build anything from scratch, so can't comment on that.
The eating. June would take a bite, stare into space for far too long, another bite, rinse and repeat. The grilled cheese sandwich looked awful, like it have been dunked in yellow paint before frying.

Things we differed on:
UI: I'm so used to everything being on the left and bottom, I'm really struggling with having to mouse all over the place. My son was a little annoyed by it, but adapted quickly.
Playing to Emotions - my son liked it, I found it a bit tedious after a while and definitely limiting/unsandbox from a life simulation perspective.
The size and mechanics of the World - my son has always preferred playing mostly from the home lot, so this did not bother him. While I mostly preferred to play that way too, now that I'm playing a Build a City Challenge in TS2, I could not customize a growing city with TS4's limitations. Deal breaker.
Life Stages: my son doesn't play generationally or centered around family, so reverting to TS1-style is not a deal breaker him. I do, big time, and it boggles my mind and pisses me off. Huge deal breaker.

Final verdit:
My son liked and enjoyed it. The game design suits him very well. It made him laugh several times (including Pee Like a Champion) and I had a ball watching him, much more fun than playing the game myself. He specifically said he likes playing his Sim at home and grinding.
When I asked him point-blank if he would buy it, he said yes. I told him I would get it for his birthday, and I have no feeling of violating my principles buying it for him *has four months to look for deals*
For me, it was decent and it was fun. The Sims are a definite win IMO. I like linear goals in a GAME, and this feels like a game to me. I feel very similarly about the gameplay in TS3 - its new features advanced the series tremendously, but for me misses the mark as a life simulator. Both 3 and 4 miss the mark. It's not that I wouldn't enjoy either of them, but rather I could never leave TS2 in favor of them. So, for me, still not buying TS4, at least not now (I bought and gave TS3 a spin in December).

For months I have been wracking my brains trying to figure out the difference between Game and Life Simulator. I think part of it is, in TS4/TS3 the game is telling me things about my Sims, while in TS2, my Sim tells me. Scope a room? The game doesn't tell me my Sim so-and-so (in the third person) thinks another Sim is hot. My SIM tells me so-and-so is hot (through a dialog box with my Sim's picture and "So-and-so is HOT!" with a picture of so-and-so next to it), and my SIM tells me they're not in the mood to look for a job. My SIM looks at me like "are you effing kidding me?" when I issue a command they don't like, and my SIM rubs their hands in glee or gives a "YEAH!" gesture with their arm when I give a command they do like. The game doesn't come between me and my Sim, and I'm pretty sure TS1 was the same way. It's such a little thing, I know, but I now think it's a key piece in the puzzle. For me.

For now I am going to disembark from the This Game is Crap train. I think it has real charm and shows promise, albeit for the more casual player like my son. I have a feeling family and generational players are going to be out of luck this go-round. It's not okay, but I can deal. I sat out TS3 and happily continued playing TS2, and I can do it again. The "4" at the end of the title is probably this version's main downfall, as it really didn't advance the series like its predecessors, and the incredible blunder of removing toddlers ensuring it. And sorry, EAxis, but that's all on you.

Maybe the ongoing flak they're receiving will either convince Maxis that designing a game geared toward devoted fans is in their best financial interest, instead of a Vision none of us were asking for (though I think it's probably too late in 4 for that), or show the suits at EA that a chunk of the Sims fans willing to buy into the TS3 store model have learned to be a little more discerning with their money. (I have a dream that the Sims team isn't as clueless as they let on, but rather it was the EA suits who boxed them into developing a scaled-back, DLC-heavy game and Maxis said "sure boss, have it your way " and then sent smooth talkin' Grant out to Twitter to 'splain it to the world .) In any case, if it's the EA suits, Maxis, or a combination of both responsible for riling up Sims fans with their design decisions in TS4, I hope all of them have learned something about their fan base and get a better clue for TS5, if a 5 happens.

Which is too bad, because generally this thread has been a place of reasonably articulate discussion of real game problems. Aside from the occasional outburst after another egregious decision of EA's is released into the wild, the discussion really isn't just a snarkfest, but a critical and insightful look at how features of a game are received by experienced players. Hell, if anyone at EA really gave a shit, they should be following The Receptacle to find out what needs to be addressed to make the game a success, at least for the next version, if there is to be one.

Dumping disparate threads in here might satisfy the need to maintain a positive environment on the "main" board, but really muddies the waters for a critical discussion of real game play issues.

I agree. As for your last thought, but maybe that's the whole point. If you're not shittin' rainbows over TS4, well then fung goo. Odd for a game that prides itself on angry pooping, but what can a person do.

It could be worse I suppose. They could pull a EA and start a specific thread for a specific group only to merge a bunch of non-related stuff into it. http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/dis...-what-you-think

I think we're missing the point on the whole chipmunk debacle. I was just looking up a translation dictionary and in modern, colloquial Simlish, chipmunk actually means zombie road-kill. Which goes a long way to describe what we're seeing zig-zagging around in the forest and why it is named so.

If I recall correctly, Graham is the one who said that criticism and such didn't bother him personally because you need and develop a thick skin when you work in the game industry, and you get used to that kind of thing? Those aren't his exact words but it was basically the same thing. I no longer know where the quote is, but it was on these boards.
I had no idea he'd labeled people as "hyenas", I must have missed that. That's disgraceful. Is it possible to give a link to comment containing that remark? I'd like to read it myself.

I once had a measure of respect for Graham's attitude and willingness to come and post in amidst flames and harsh critique. Until he made the remark that virtually said they had fooled us into thinking previous versions of Sims had emotions, and we bought it, but in Sims 4, they really do this time!
I thought that was a dreadful way to attempt another ad nauseum plug of "Emotionzzzzz" , basically telling your fanbase they were stupid enough to believe you prior. It just came off very unpleasantly, and off putting. I don't offend easily at all, but I found it a little insulting to be honest.

In its context it really comes across as a basic, inoffensive simile. Responding to a suggestion he had been "muzzled" because he wasn't answering many questions:

"Naa, I post when/where I please. I've started typing out a few responses here recently, but I keep getting this mental image of the forum goers as a pack of ravenous hyenas (not that I blame you for wanting answers) and me being a chunk of meat and find myself pressing the back button on the browser. Making a drive by post to answer one particular question feels like it would be counterproductive and just annoy people. Answers are coming to some of the larger questions people have been asking, but I won't ever be the one commenting before we've officially communicated it. I have made a note to answer some people's questions from here via twitter though - I keep an eye out." (archived thread)

That comment was made in a thread that was deleted awhile back. Sorry, I don't have a quote.

I'm not offended. I've dealt with considerably worse people that have far worse intentions. It does annoy me though that people think that everybody is a idiot that can't see the trees through the forest. If this what people really think, then own it because the games that are being played are not working. These things tend to bite the very people that think they are being savvy in the face later on. In the meantime, I'll enjoy the forest with the chipmunks that have proper tails.

I think he just didn't choose the right animal for his metaphor. He should have called us wolves. Since Game of Thrones nobody gets offended over that!

Exactly. He should call us wolves. Or dragons. I don't mind being a dragon, if he likes.

Yes, this I can agree to. Then one of my favorite lines could be used.

"Don't mess with a dragon, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup."

The hyena thing didn't really bother me since it was pretty true at the time. A lot of us were pouncing on him like a pack of wild animals

If he thought it was bad then, I'd like to know what he thinks now as they're getting it from every angle, including their beloved Twitter and Facebook.

Ah, thanks for that There are times when I can see that mental image myself I suppose. It isn't what I was expecting to read, I had the impression that he'd actually said that fans were hyenas.
I think fans are simply like that because they're very passionate about the game. And in all fairness, they did go for a VERY long time in giving us next to no information at all. You can hardly blame people for being reduced to desperation in trying to gather just a snippet.

Hopefully in his next mental image he'll picture himself as Daenerys Targaryen throwing toddlers at a ravenous pack of very reasonable dragon-wolves instead. (Not that she actually does that of course).

Gosh, I had forgotten about the hyena thing, that is laughable because when people determine your actions without knowing you well that's assumptions and it doesn't ever go well. Now I do remember what Pary posted, Graham said about the past iterations of emotions in the game was fooling you and that did sort of rangled my hide a bit. I mean all the games had a measure of mechanics that pressured certain reactions that could be viewed as emotions. Those actions evoked emotions from me in return. Now I am an idiot that was duped by those interactions, EMOTIONS was the real deal. OK, game is released and the long awaited EMOTIONS that was the real deal and the major selling point was finally being revealed. Yay! Yes, no. The changing of emotions was so tiring and not worth playing the sim gearing toward the emotional state. They would change from room to room and left me looking at those sims like Please, emotions don't mean a thing when it's important to show them, Having a child you might get a sim to the pre-parent panic but nothing when the baby is born. Nothing for a birthday unless you cook a cake and have a party, nothing for the death of a sim, nothing that made me feel but I wanted the "fake" ones back. They can keep the EMOTIONS.

Hi Graham. This is off topic, but you know that free 48 hour trial of Sims 4 that was offered? I had it opened on my desktop and was going to press Play, but then I discovered I was banned from the official shit hole.. I mean official Sims site without warning.

I exited the free game trial and Sims 4 is no longer on my To Do list. I won't even play it for free and my money shall stay right in my wallet where it belongs.

It's not a sexy thing to talk about. Nothing they are doing with this game is sexy either. I digress.

Should the day come that the foundation that is full of holes collapse under the building pressure of all that is TS4, that will be a even less sexy conversation. EA will say that they don't know what happened and the 'haters' will be blamed for the fall even though nobody should tell another person how to spend their money. All of this is preventable, but that's too hard and expensive.

They use the EMOSHUNS to punish the player for not baking that cake by making the Sim mopey. Then they punish the player for not having the Sim take some time to exercise by making the cake so fattening.

Yeah, it's just not really a very fun game, eh?

When I first got it, I liked it. Now I'm just sad it's like this. My poor 6-member house... their little icons got smaller and smaller with each addition to the family. I can barely see their camera icon... and THAT is with the change to a larger UI on top of it all. Good grief!
PLUS... I'm fed up with the bugs. Fridge not working, Bar not working. UI looking strange....
So, I've been really enjoying Sims 3, roasting chili at the outdoor pit and watching my Sims have a "fire-breathing" fit. :lovestruc

Ah, so this is where that thread went. I started out trying to respond to more individuals, but as I was typing I realized I had some broader thoughts that covered a number of things people either commented on or questioned recently... so hopefully if you don't see my direct response to one of your posts, you'll see some of the themes you touched on within this.

I'll start by saying, one of my initial concerns with even posting on this forum when I first came here was that I don't want to make the conversation about me, and I don't want people here to feel the need to moderate their tone or their comments just because someone who worked on the game is around. If the consensus is that I'm intruding on your community or stifling discussion I'll respect that and leave you be. I enjoy constructive criticism, and prefer visiting corners of the internet where I can read that feedback and take it back to the team. While I'll offer my own opinions, I try not to tell you what you should think of the game. If you like it, that's great. If you don't, I understand you have valid criticisms and you're certainly entitled to your opinion. I do think it's a bit unfortunate that the conversation often revolves around the developers themselves and not what you think of the product though. I'll actively defend anyone on our team as we have a great mix of hard working and creative individuals who put forth a lot of effort. It's something you see throughout the industry, as the people who work in it are often here because it's where they want to be. I'm not particularly bothered if anyone here happens to dislike me and I don't take it personally, so if you don't like my approach or things that I've worked on you're welcome to tell me. I saw one of my quotes come back up regarding drive by posting and my theory that it has a tendency to annoy people more than it helps, and just looking through the past 24 hours of this thread that feels like it's true. Plenty of assumptions about why I haven't responded yet or how I don't care, that mostly just derail the topic of conversation. But hey, if I'm just being honest... I've been in the office working both days this weekend, and if my choice when I get home is between rushing to answer a thread where someone is feigning empathy for my cushy job (and it is a great job that I love, no doubt there whatsoever), or kicking back with some Destiny (which I've had an unhealthy addiction to since September), I know which direction I'm probably leaning in.

When I do drop by though, I don't come here to try and sell anyone on our products, or give two faced explanations about development to make you reconsider a purchase. I'm just a guy who enjoys discussing video games, and enjoys discussing the game industry even more. What I try and offer to the Sims community, here and elsewhere, are straightforward answers to topics that I'm allowed to discuss. I try to counter misinformation and inform people on the "why?" questions that usually come up about why something is the way it is. I don't shy away from hot button issues that I'm allowed to talk about, which means it's entirely possible that my explanation isn't what you want to hear. I think some people have this perception that I'm sent out as the bad news messenger at times, but the reality is I take it upon myself because I don't want you to linger on in false hope, so I just go and clarify things to give finality to them. That doesn't mean it's an excuse, it doesn't mean I personally agree with the outcome, and I'm not trying to be condescending or aloof. It's founded in the respect I have for our fans and that I think you're deserving of genuine information about what we're working on, and I leave it up to you to decide if what we've made is worth your money. You should also know though that I happen to like EA quite a bit, both as a company to work for, and as a gamer who finds myself playing numerous EA titles each year. I'm not going to be someone who leaks information, addresses topics that would be inappropriate to officially speak to, or critiques our products.

On a related note, it's common that myself and other gurus get inaccurately attributed with the perceived successes or failures on any particular project. One recent post in this thread seemed to credit me personally with more influence than I actually had on some of the positive things that happened with Island Paradise. While I brought those positives that were mentioned to the table, I'm not the one who gets final say in approving that work to happen. I always fight to improve each one of my features, and I fight to get things put in that I know that the community wants... when we're deciding how to spend the time in our schedule, it's up to feature producers to present compelling arguments for why their request is the one that should win out. Also, know that here's a difference to people who work in the industry between having the entirety of a game attributed to them vs taking pride in their own work and personal contributions to the final product. I'd actually say that The Sims is one of the more positive examples in the industry of individual developers being able to have a larger influence on a product, but commonly when working on a game you're assigned to your own small slice and you have little control or insight into other areas that go into the final release until you move much further up the food chain.





I can only offer my personal perspective, but yes, I absolutely think Sims fans are "worth it". I'm personally motivated to deliver something to Sims fans that they love, because I understand where you're coming from. I'm just as passionate and care just as much about some other games that I play and love as all of you do with The Sims. I love that about our community and that's what drives me. I try to pour that effort and attention to detail into the features that I work on.





I'm not a money guy. I'm not involved in setting our budget, and I don't know the decisions that go into determining how we recoup development costs. From being around the game industry though, and knowing more of how this worked at my previous employer, my educated guess would be that the investment in the up-front development isn't expected to pay for itself with a single release, rather it's a platform that additional content can more easily be built on that will pay off long term.





I hadn't seen that mod, but I'm glad to hear such a thing exists. As for why some objects are unavailable in the catalog... I don't know about it in The Sims 4 as I haven't personally worked much with it in this game. I'd hazard a guess that it has to do with limits enforced on the artists for on lot vs off lot assets... objects have different rules such as the number of polygons that are allowed per 1x1 tile space that varies between on lot and off lot. I want to say the artists are required to make off lot objects have less detail to adhere to strict performance requirements for each neighborhood in the game. Because those objects have less detail, they're not supposed to use them on lot - where a player is presumably spending the majority of their time. Although I'll reiterate - that's an educated guess on my part on the philosophy behind it and shouldn't be taken as fact.

In practice, each person who works on areas of the game brings their own ideas and approach to things. I was the object producer back on World Adventures and Ambitions, and I tried to ensure that every piece of content was available to players in the catalog, or at the very least within buydebug where they could still get to it. At the risk of sticking my foot in my mouth with an art director, I remember a discussion way back on World Adventures when some of the artists didn't want any non-complatable objects (aka, ones you couldn't use Create a Style on) that they made to be available in the catalog. I understood their concern; because internally we shouldn't be placing those types of objects on the lots that we're building. That said, as a player I want access to every piece of content in the game, and I want to play with it in any manner I want, and I don't think we should try and enforce our own internal rules on players. Sometimes when a bug gets closed in our database, it gets labeled as a "DDT" - aka, don't do that. What that boils down to is, if you don't want a weird object on your lot... well, don't place it there. But if you do, I think we should allow it. That's the beauty of buydebug as well; rules get much more relaxed about what shows up in there.





Hi there Gargoyle Cat - I want to address this directly as I wasn't aware some people were still upset about it. I don't feel I have anything to apologize for in regards to that comment (and for posterity, I'll include the comment below for anyone reading this to judge for themselves), but I am genuinely sorry if you or others in the community felt it was a personal attack or an attempt to negatively label anyone. To me it was a metaphor used to explain how I felt posting at times, and not a derogatory statement towards anyone (as I mentioned in that post, I sympathized with where players were coming from due to the lack of information at the time). I wouldn't take back what I said, although I'd hope people would see it through the lens that I intended, or at least understand what I was attempting to say after reading this. I may have made a mistake in sharing my feelings too casually as I enjoyed posting here and felt relatively comfortable with some of the regulars, and didn't give enough consideration to how that comment may sound to someone who doesn't really know me.

The comment in question:
"Naa, I post when/where I please. I've started typing out a few responses here recently, but I keep getting this mental image of the forum goers as a pack of ravenous hyenas (not that I blame you for wanting answers) and me being a chunk of meat and find myself pressing the back button on the browser. Making a drive by post to answer one particular question feels like it would be counterproductive and just annoy people. Answers are coming to some of the larger questions people have been asking, but I won't ever be the one commenting before we've officially communicated it. I have made a note to answer some people's questions from here via twitter though - I keep an eye out."





Yes to all of the above, and more. A SimGuru is simply someone who is either on the development team working on the game, or - much smaller in number - someone that interfaces directly with the community. If you ask any SimGuru what their specific role is, they're happy to share It's not an attempt to dumb down anything about our conversations with you, it's just a convenient way to find us, and gives us a consistent presence across the internet.

As for your other question, actually yes - anyone who works on The Sims is welcome to be a guru. It's entirely volunteer based by those on the team who are interested in participating. I'm sure it causes a headache for our PR people at times, but I think it's a unique thing that our team does compared to the rest of the industry, and a really positive step towards having more open and transparent communications with fans. I don't want to spout marketing bullet points at fans when I talk to them, I want to have a real conversation.

Just one quick question Graham...why are sims no longer movable with the moveobjects cheat? Kinda fucked the storytellers and photagraphers over there :/

Okay, I'm just quoting this part of Graham's post this way, as I'm tired.
Graham said:
"I don't shy away from hot button issues that I'm allowed to talk about, which means it's entirely possible that my explanation isn't what you want to hear. I think some people have this perception that I'm sent out as the bad news messenger at times, but the reality is I take it upon myself because I don't want you to linger on in false hope, so I just go and clarify things to give finality to them."
Right now, anything at all being said would be a massive step forward for EA, whoever is/would be the spokesperson. This almost total restriction on anyone being allowed to talk is not helping anybody.

Good attitude. I like it. That being said, I still want people to feel the need to moderate their tone just because of basic human decency. That includes, but is not limited to, not pulling every possibly criticism down to the personal level. Voicing opinions in a way that is actually constructive and not riddled with (underhanded) personal insults, might actually lead to a thread not being moved to the trashbin known as The Receptacle.

Oh, and I can understand that people would rather be compared with wolves or dragons instead of hyenas. Maybe if folks started showing some of the traits associated with the former instead of the latter, that might actually happen. Would be a huge step forward really.