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Original Poster
#1 Old 9th Jun 2018 at 9:23 PM
Default Rabbitholes - Like them or no?
I've always seen various different reactions to this question before. Some do, some don't.

Personally, I never had a problem with them at all ever since the very beginning of TS3. One of the complaints of RHs is that you have no control of your sim while they're inside of one. Maybe it's because I've just never felt the urge to micromanage *every* action my sims do, but in my mind they're a lifesaver. Especially in large households. You can have a few sims head off to work/school, and anyone else still at home is free to do whatever you'd like them to.

And while they're there, you don't have to worry about controlling them for several in game hours. If you want to control how their day is going, simply change the tone in their queue. And they're so versatile with the interactions they provide, whether it's in the actual game or added by a mod. Just figured out recently that Nraas StoryProgression allows you to get loans at the business office. I mean, how cool is that? But what if you had to actually build every venue to get the same level of interactivity? Ehhh, no thanks, for me at least.

I guess what I'm saying is, for me personally the pros outweigh the cons. Some people like having the ability to actually be able to see inside everything and control everything your sims do while they're there. I'll say I can understand why. Just isn't for me. So what do you guys think?

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Mad Poster
#2 Old 9th Jun 2018 at 11:30 PM
Useful in many situations (i.e. work, tombs), limiting in others (i.e. restaurants, shops).
Mad Poster
#3 Old 9th Jun 2018 at 11:34 PM
I have no problem with them. They accomplish things and I think were needed for an open world. Some players have trouble with 3 as is, so they condense some things and fill a world which works IMO. When I do not want to use them in the worlds I do I just use the RH rugs.
Mad Poster
#4 Old 9th Jun 2018 at 11:48 PM Last edited by igazor : 10th Jun 2018 at 12:25 PM.
Not everyone does so for this reason, but rabbitholes are frequently used as an excuse to bash the game. Many folks I've seen do this also complain that CASt ruins the game's performance, the mere potential existence of the Katy Perry SP which hasn't been available from EA sources for years is game-breaking, no one needs or wants an Open World, store premium items are too expensive, toddlers don't do enough, blah blah, etc. All nonsense of course (well, the store could maybe be/have been a bit cheaper in some places) to get whatever they think their point was across.

After a certain level of evolution with the game and some mods like Zerbu's for careers/schools and JunJayMdM's Online Center to help, rabbitholes become truly optional. Or at least most of them do, guess there is still no substitute for the 3x week Uni classes for example. But one of the things that draws many of us to this iteration of the game is player choice when it comes to stuff like this.
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#6 Old 10th Jun 2018 at 12:27 AM Last edited by Jathom95 : 10th Jun 2018 at 12:52 AM.
Quote: Originally posted by jje1000
Useful in many situations (i.e. work, tombs), limiting in others (i.e. restaurants, shops).

See, the second part is one of the few instances where I do tend to like having an open venue on occasion, but only if it's at the very least somewhat customizable. The BAU Bistro and the Savvy Seller Collection as provided by EA (so no mods) were a poor last minute attempt imo to replicate OFB's ability to create almost any kind of business you could think of.

Quote: Originally posted by igazor
Not everyone does so for this reason, but rabbitholes are frequently used as a reason to bash the game. Many folks I've seen do this also complain that CASt ruins the game's performance, the mere potential existence of the Katy Perry SP which hasn't been available from EA sources for years is game-breaking, no one needs or wants an Open World, store premium items are too expensive, toddlers don't do enough, blah blah, etc. All nonsense of course (well, the store could maybe be/have been a bit cheaper in some places) to get whatever they think their point was across.

Ugh, I know. Don't even get me started. Not really related to rabbitholes, but on the subject of bashing you forgot about the lifeless sims with no soul, how the game runs terribly for everyone, no question. Yes, the game is an optimization nightmare, but it can still run pretty well if you're not playing on your grandmother's Toshiba Satellite laptop.

Quote: Originally posted by igazor
But one of the things that draws many of us to this iteration of the game is player choice when it comes to things like this.

And that's exactly what I don't understand about all the bashing. TS3 is hands down the most customizable of all the Sims games, you can literally make it into whatever you desire. The choices are absolutely endless. It just takes some patience to find what appeals to you and make your game completely unique from anyone else's.

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Mad Poster
#7 Old 10th Jun 2018 at 1:00 AM
One thing rabbit holes do really well is look good. As versatile as the build system is, buildings never look entirely realistic in TS3. Everything is perfectly spaced, the walls are all completely flat and angular. They're built on a grid and there's no weathering.
Rabbit holes can be anything. They can have slanted walls, curved walls, they can have fancy-looking baked textures and organic-looking weathering. Some of the rabbit hole models look absolutely amazing.

Now you can get close, sure, but it takes skill to do that. I'm currently building a large, unspecified community lot with lots of Art Deco-style setbacks and nooks and crannies. Using the dirty wall set from World Adventures and ambient occlusion from Reshade, the building looks as large and imposing as it should be. But it's the first time ever that I've managed to do that, in 8 years of building.

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retired moderator
#8 Old 10th Jun 2018 at 1:14 AM
I really love the rabbitholes. With the chance to choose tones they are more in-depth than the Sims 2 off-lot experiences, and I like that I don't have to play my sims at work or shopping (I do enough of that sort of stuff in real life!). I also like the detail on the rabbithole models, and rather than replace them with rabbithole rugs I usually 'expand' them to include things I'd like to see on the lot.

For example, in one world I built a little annexe to the rabbithole police station, which had stairs down to the cell area. This contained a secret door which led to an escape route (tomb) where the sim could go through a tunnel (dive well) to escape to an island elsewhere in the world. I could have both the detailed model and a playable lot in one place, and it's easy to use texture overrides to customise the rabbithole models for each world.
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Original Poster
#9 Old 10th Jun 2018 at 1:18 AM
Quote: Originally posted by GrijzePilion
One thing rabbit holes do really well is look good. As versatile as the build system is, buildings never look entirely realistic in TS3. Everything is perfectly spaced, the walls are all completely flat and angular. They're built on a grid and there's no weathering.
Rabbit holes can be anything. They can have slanted walls, curved walls, they can have fancy-looking baked textures and organic-looking weathering. Some of the rabbit hole models look absolutely amazing.

And, on top of that, to expand on something nitromon posted in a different take, rabbitholes give a fantastic illusion of depth. The point you made, large and imposing, fits well. The hospital for instance. I'll never forget when I was briefly playing TS4 and had just bought Get To Work. The hospital had 3-4 rooms for patients. The police station had 3 cells. Completely killed the experience beyond, you know, the shallow gameplay. Needless to say, I stepped back from TS4 shortly after and haven't looked back since.

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Mad Poster
#10 Old 10th Jun 2018 at 1:24 AM
That's one thing, yeah. Hospitals with 4 rooms. Theatres with 20 seats. Offices with 7 desks. The rabbit holes may also not get much bigger than 64x64, but at least there isn't a cramped interior to be annoyed by. And while no one's ever really bothered to make a CC rabbit hole, you could make one bigger than 64x64 perfectly fine.

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Mad Poster
#12 Old 10th Jun 2018 at 1:55 AM
Quote: Originally posted by simsample
For example, in one world I built a little annexe to the rabbithole police station, which had stairs down to the cell area. This contained a secret door which led to an escape route (tomb) where the sim could go through a tunnel (dive well) to escape to an island elsewhere in the world.


What a darn cool idea.

Most of the time my sim family has been 6-8 sims so I like to have some gone at work or school at times to focus on the others. I do not need/want to see/control them then.

I have done many lots where I used several of the EA RH and also have done other things on lots with them. In the worlds I make though, most often they are not the right theme/look and so I use the rugs and doors. Right now a park in one world I am doing has 12 rugs on it.
Field Researcher
#13 Old 10th Jun 2018 at 2:01 AM
I skipped over the Sims 2, and went straight from the Sims 1 to the Sims 3. I'm kinda used to sending my sims away for work.
Mad Poster
#14 Old 10th Jun 2018 at 2:30 AM
in 4 at least there are things to do/see in Get To Work. In 3 I would not want to watch a businessperson sit at a desk all day or cruise the water cooler, for example. Making full careers of all the ones in RH would have totally overloaded the game. And fully doing all those lots. I am fine with what EA did.
Mad Poster
#16 Old 10th Jun 2018 at 2:44 AM
I totally agree. There is more than enough to do in 3 as is and there are careers we can choose where we are at work. I ignored a firefighter at work a few days and learned that was not good! LOL I think they are needed for an open world also as otherwise it would bring sluggish games to a near standstill. I think EA did a good balance, and as said there are custom careers available also.
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#17 Old 10th Jun 2018 at 2:49 AM
Quote: Originally posted by daisylee
in 4 at least there are things to do/see in Get To Work. In 3 I would not want to watch a businessperson sit at a desk all day or cruise the water cooler, for example. Making full careers of all the ones in RH would have totally overloaded the game. And fully doing all those lots. I am fine with what EA did.

That's just it, though. Not every career would work as an active career anyway. I mean, GTW only had 3 compared to Ambitions' 5, not counting the self-employed ones. Even then, only a few of them were "exciting" enough to warrant watching/getting involved with your sims' daily grind. But the problem with GTW, besides the tiny, cramped lots is there isn't even enough variance in the day-to-day to make any noticeable difference anyway. The tasks you are given later on barely differ from the time you are hired, not considering the fact that several of the interactions are glitched to high heaven and don't even work properly half the time *coughdetectivecough*. The very least EA could have done is to *not* use the same lot for every world. Ever noticed if you're somewhere like Oasis Springs, predominantly a desert, then head over to the hospital and suddenly there's lush green foliage everywhere? But what am I saying, I completely forgot. Everything is "too hard".

Not belittling your post daise, just looking at the big picture here.

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Mad Poster
#18 Old 10th Jun 2018 at 3:08 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Jathom95
That's just it, though. Not every career would work as an active career anyway. I mean, GTW only had 3 compared to Ambitions' 5, not counting the self-employed ones. Even then, only a few of them were "exciting" enough to warrant watching/getting involved with your sims' daily grind. But the problem with GTW, besides the tiny, cramped lots is there isn't even enough variance in the day-to-day to make any noticeable difference anyway. The tasks you are given later on barely differ from the time you are hired, not considering the fact that several of the interactions are glitched to high heaven and don't even work properly half the time *coughdetectivecough*. The very least EA could have done is to *not* use the same lot for every world. Ever noticed if you're somewhere like Oasis Springs, predominantly a desert, then head over to the hospital and suddenly there's lush green foliage everywhere? But what am I saying, I completely forgot. Everything is "too hard".

Not belittling your post daise, just looking at the big picture here.


I think you missed the points I was making as I said I did not want the RH careers to be other than RH ones, and I am more than capable of seeing big pictures, but I am too tired to respond. I was totally bored with the doctors in 4 and stopped playing mine very soon.
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Original Poster
#19 Old 10th Jun 2018 at 3:13 AM
Ah, gotcha. Sorry about that, I'm fairly tired right now too so I guess I didn't catch which way you were going with your post. Like I said, I meant no harm on my end.

Edit: Just noticed the two posts after the one I was referencing between you and nitromon. That'll teach me to go do something else for several minutes before replying.

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Mad Poster
#20 Old 10th Jun 2018 at 3:16 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Jathom95
Ah, gotcha. Sorry about that, I'm fairly tired right now too so I guess I didn't catch which way you were going with your post. Like I said, I meant no harm on my end.


No problem! I think it must be nap time. :D
Alchemist
#21 Old 10th Jun 2018 at 8:27 AM
@GrijzePilion brings up a good point with the shape of the rabbitholes; too often I've found myself frustrated because real buildings have small decorative bits (like recesses or small foundations) that cannot be replicated in the game - or at least not without significant struggle. But I try to console myself with the thought that most government buildings where I live aren't terribly creative from an architectural standpoint

From a functional perspective, rabbitholes come in handy when you have a large household with sims who can work. I once had a household with two adults who worked Ambitions professions, and it was irritating and tiresome to keep switching back and forth between them. At that point I paused the game so often it basically didn't even count as playing it. So while I do understand the appeal of managing sims even more, I'm thankful that I get the opportunity to NOT micromanage that area of their lives for once! And, personally, I think Uni lectures are very boring to watch and don't want to keep an eye on my sim constantly to make sure they don't fall asleep every 5 minutes.

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Original Poster
#22 Old 10th Jun 2018 at 2:32 PM
Quote: Originally posted by sweetdevil
I once had a household with two adults who worked Ambitions professions, and it was irritating and tiresome to keep switching back and forth between them. At that point I paused the game so often it basically didn't even count as playing it.

I've restricted active careers in my game to single sim households. The constant switching and zooming out across town and back in anything larger really does get tiresome.

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Mad Poster
#23 Old 10th Jun 2018 at 4:27 PM
Mix feelings. Micro-managing wouldn't be a problem, because they don't need much guidance as they care of themselves, especially the nature of TS3 their motives hardly decay so it's not like they would die by something within the realms of an actual building without your notice. Also, how freaking awesome If there was flexibility to customize the exterior&interior to your heart's content.

As for the CONS, well-- having an actual building oppose to the rabbit holes would mean little imagination and mediocre stuff happening inside the lot, because their might not be new exclusive items and features apart from what we have. Like how would school and function? Would children be standing or sitting in the classroom while the teaches are chatting and gossiping with them? Would the chalkboard be decorative? What would sims do in the laboratory that they work as the scientists? Looking through the tiny telescope? Or would have EA been lazy and made sims turn invisible upon entering these builds?

Good thing the team did add improve alternatives that do not rabbit holes (movie theater premium set. restaurant premium set), despite by the simmers reports that their execution are shitty, but at least those who rather have visible buildings would purchase that content so both type of groups have a choice now.

P.S. Sorry for my bad english.
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#24 Old 10th Jun 2018 at 4:47 PM
Quote: Originally posted by SneakyWingPhoenix
Mix feelings. Micro-managing wouldn't be a problem, because they don't need much guidance as they care of themselves...

When I mention micromanaging, I mean that some players' gameplay involves seeing and interacting with nearly every part of a sim's events throughout the day. What you said is true as long as free will is involved, but not everyone plays that way. I don't, without free will that is, but still. Where the trouble with some comes into play with RHs is that it's left completely up to your imagination as to what your sims are doing once they enter, which I rather like, because otherwise you are left with visual monotony of your sims doing the same thing day in and out.

The second part of your post is why I don't typically prefer open buildings everywhere beyond the occasional business/restaurant. Well, ones with *good* gameplay that is.

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Lab Assistant
#25 Old 10th Jun 2018 at 5:26 PM
Well, I like building up worlds from scratch and RHs have become so customisable - what with rugs&doors, recolourable versions and script changers - that it's much easier to make them fit your 'vision' for the world you're playing in.
In terms of playing, I've had boring periods where everyone was off to school or work, so I like to have at least one sim with a different schedule or not tied to an RH. Then again, it's something to be grateful for when all of your six kids do not need looking after for most of the day. The tones (Talk to friends etc.) still allow for some control on my side, although I do understand players who want to be involved more. I do take issue with things like prom; having to take time to get rid of a seriously incompatible love interest is just annoying, especially given you can't just ignore it without risking the sim's reputation. I also used to lament that you can't follow your sims into mausoleums etc., but WA scratches that itch now, I guess...
So yeah, I don't want to watch every little thing my sims do, but we do have a choice. At the end of the day, I'd rather have RHs and not use some of them than having none at all.

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