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Needs Coffee
retired moderator
#1426 Old 9th May 2018 at 8:51 AM
@gazania I would suggest a social group. People who were interested could join, and do builds as they felt like it/had the time. Any contest that goes in this forum is always official.

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
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Mad Poster
#1427 Old 9th May 2018 at 10:15 AM Last edited by Justpetro : 9th May 2018 at 10:40 AM.
Quote: Originally posted by Charmful
Fair enough, 1 of 4 left in that contest; JustPetro was left too! The remaining four all had formidable builds and skill. But hey, this contest had seven contestants left by the end. So it's a mix of holding your breath *and* build skill.


I was. I ended third Actually, I could probably convince Jo that it is not a real third place since there were only 4 contestants left. To me, though, just having lasted for the entire duration of that contest makes me feel as if I earned that 3rd place and I am quite proud of that.

Edit: @Charmful - I had no formidable building skills when I entered that contest. I learned most of my building skills right there And Phaenoh was one of the most patient people - telling us in detail what is wrong and what should be changed (and I still smile at the memory of the ridiculous wall paper ). Before that contest, I think I could make a roof higher with CFE and used MoveObjects on - both of those I learned during the Monopoly contest.

In the Monopoly contest, there was a round where we had to build an apartment and there was a 3 floor building. Some contestant asked if it would be allowed to lower the bottom floor's wall with CFE. My reaction was: You can do that? Googled CFE (I literally knew zilch about building cheats when I entered that competition). Contest host: No, you can't. Me: Deep sigh of relief.
Top Secret Researcher
#1428 Old 9th May 2018 at 10:26 AM
There is a group for Maxis makeiver, using same foundation - not extending outwards. Doesn't see much activity, sadly.
Needs Coffee
retired moderator
#1429 Old 9th May 2018 at 12:32 PM
See, there is always and I do mean always something that gets overlooked when setting contest rules. In fact, it's an unwritten rule that your rules will be tested by the wheels falling off them at every turn. I was saying to Gina next contest I will make very KISS (keep it Simple Stupid) and said, 1-3rd place, what could be easier... *scrunches up that page and tosses it away*

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
Mad Poster
#1430 Old 9th May 2018 at 12:45 PM
Keep it Straight and Simple aka KISS - an actual (tiny) political party here
Toaster Strudel Addict
retired moderator
#1431 Old 9th May 2018 at 1:45 PM
Actually @gazania, that is something I've given some thought to before and considered if there was a way I could work it into the challenge forum. Because you are correct, it would not currently get approved there. But it's something I've had a little conversation with a couple other staff members about. And something I may still try to add, a sort of Tumblr style challenges thing. Short build prompt type things and/or sim prompts or something.

And yup, @Jo, I've hosted I'm not actually sure how many contests, but plenty, and still have to fiddle with rules, at least a little, every time
Instructor
#1432 Old 9th May 2018 at 1:56 PM
I only have a few minutes before class, so I'll leave my (somewhat) thorough review of the contest for a later occasion. For now, congratulations Maxon for winning and congratulations to contestants and playalongs for some really good builds!
Thank you judges for taking the time to judge and thank you gdayars for hosting an interesting contest.
Toaster Strudel Addict
retired moderator
#1433 Old 9th May 2018 at 3:55 PM
Pssst... @gazania... over here It's almost what you wanted, though no deadlines.
Mad Poster
#1434 Old 9th May 2018 at 4:14 PM Last edited by gazania : 9th May 2018 at 4:24 PM.
(Perks ears.)

Oh ... ? I will probably not enter every one, but this looks quite interesting indeed.

Question, though. Can you use CC, as long as you attribute?

Thanks to ALL free-site creators, admins and mods.

RIP Sunni ... truly a ray of light.
Toaster Strudel Addict
retired moderator
#1435 Old 9th May 2018 at 4:27 PM
That would depend on the individual challenge. I would assume most would allow unless they say otherwise. Also since it wouldn't be an upload, just pics, credits wouldn't be required.

Oh...or do you mean if you make a challenge involving say, a custom lot, that would be ok too and yes, would require credit.
Mad Poster
#1436 Old 9th May 2018 at 6:34 PM Last edited by CatherineTCJD : 10th May 2018 at 12:58 AM.
Good morn- erm... afternoon.

GDayars and Jo - I searched all night for that T-shirt. It must be in the laundry... or in the 'outgrown' pile.

I woke up with "Beginners" still running around in my brain. Discussed it with hubster over our morning coffees. And feel I must voice my concerns one . more . time...

The thing of it is: you can't police a contestant's background. You just can't. Therefore, it is not 'fair' to limit/bar contestants. (You may be able to get away with limiting contestants in more advanced levels by having prerequisite contests that they must have placed in the top 5 (or whatever). BUT, I think that is too cumbersome, and many wouldn't bother.)

There is absolutely no way to set completely equal/level terms that determine a beginner builder AND find a group of 10 to 15 of them who are interested in committing to a contest.

The solution lies with the judging. You can control how the judges judge - I'm not talking about each judges personality and what they bring to the table themselves, that must remain subjective and is why 3 judges are necessary. I mean the criteria/guidelines that they are expected to judge by. Isn't there a breakdown somewhere of what's considered beginner building techniques, intermediate level techniques, and advanced techniques? A beginner contest should center around those 'beginner' techniques. If a contest is geared for beginners - no one should be marked down for building a simple build that meets the round's requirements - likewise advanced techniques should not get extra consideration. If a contest is geared toward intermediate builders - each build should be required (and it should be stated in the contest rules) to have a little CFE in it somewhere, or be marked down for the lack thereof. Advanced level contests should have even more build techniques expected in each build; determined and stated plainly in the rules, of course.

I think a lot of unnecessary bad vibes and stress can be eliminated if the judges criteria/rubrics/guidelines sheet was posted for all to see - before building starts. AND, if each judge introduced themselves in the beginning of the contest by stating what else they will be looking for in each build, if they have any little pet-peeves to watch out for, etc.

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Mad Poster
#1437 Old 9th May 2018 at 7:10 PM
There is no way that one can ever be 100% sure if a contestant is a beginner - I do agree with that. Yet trust has to be involved. And some of the simmers have been around on MTS long enough so that most of us know where we would classify them.

The alternative is very easy - do not call it a beginner's contest to begin with. Just say the contest is open for anyone.

The Monopoly contest was open for everyone and beginners was never mentioned. I thought it may teach me something about building, and that is why I entered. And it did teach me enough to qualify for the Urban Revival contest, where you actually had to have done something before the contest in order to qualify.

Edit: I feel I have to say this. Cat - for all her complaining about orange - has always, in my view, been quite fair, even when I presented her with very a very orange picture story in a contest as well as a rather orange house (Knowing full well that she does not like it) much later And she likes orange drinks
Turquoise Dragon
retired moderator
Original Poster
#1438 Old 9th May 2018 at 8:03 PM
Well hmmmm valid points... I think a bit more thinking will have to be done on this subject. Perhaps we should offer simple, intermediate, and complex style building required, and that way if a beginner wasn't ready for complex they could stick to the other versions. and like you said, just not give extra credit for going beyond the style it was designed for (except complex) However, if a beginner wants to enter a complex style one, they have to realize no one will give them a break because you are a beginner.
Mad Poster
#1439 Old 9th May 2018 at 8:16 PM
Quote: Originally posted by gdayars
Well hmmmm valid points... I think a bit more thinking will have to be done on this subject. Perhaps we should offer simple, intermediate, and complex style building required, and that way if a beginner wasn't ready for complex they could stick to the other versions. and like you said, just not give extra credit for going beyond the style it was designed for (except complex) However, if a beginner wants to enter a complex style one, they have to realize no one will give them a break because you are a beginner.

Thank you. YES. I'm mashing the 'agree' button over and over again .

Cheers, Petro - I'm having an orange martini in honor of your build. I remember it well.

Please ~ support my TS2 habit! Shop at my Etsy shops:
CatherinesJewelry ~ Artisan Jewelry
Catherine's MOUSE ~ Up/Recycled Jewelry
and Vintage Stuffeths
Top Secret Researcher
#1440 Old 9th May 2018 at 9:16 PM
A beginner could be classed as someone who hasn't entered a building contest before. Simple. Open to all should not be stated as beginners.
Mad Poster
#1441 Old 9th May 2018 at 10:10 PM
I don't think anyone who feels that they could win a more complex competition would enter as a beginner. And some players may prefer the challenge rather than being in a beginner's competition as well.

Of course, I don't know, but in flower arranging, you often see new faces entering the intermediate or advanced categories - nobody has to start as a beginner, but once you have won enough arrangements in a competition (and that is any competition in the country), you have to move on. And some of the newbies do well, since they have been learning flower arranging from a mother or an aunt or attended some courses in their areas. Some may also take a bit long to win and actually decide that they think they are ready to go to the next level. That is allowed.

There has to be trust, though, and personally, I don't know why anyone would pretend to be a beginner - it is probably nice to win a building contest (I don't know ), but it is not as if you are going to go home with a bag of money or going to be promoted or get a new job or something when you do. And I think most normal people would like to feel that they deserve the win.

So I think a rule like Jo suggested (placed 3rd or higher before) is actually a good start just to have something to work on. I really do not think it is necessary to make it too complicated; decide on a definition for a beginner and stick to that. Not everyone may think it is perfect, but you can never please everyone - as long as the decision is made and then kept to, it will be fair. And as long as nobody who is actually defined as a beginner, being forced to take part as a beginner, I don't think there will be too many unhappy players.

Edit: not entering a building competition before - I am not sure that is fair, since some competitions are easier than others, but it could also work. As I say, once a beginner is defined, just make it a rule and stick to it.
.
Needs Coffee
retired moderator
#1442 Old 9th May 2018 at 11:11 PM
@Justpetro That's a much nicer option. I'm not a fan of the word stupid which is why I always refer to our other sims 2 thread as silly questions.

@CatherineTCJD Since Sarah is only 16 she doesn't qualify for a t-shirt. *Takes it back and tells her to stay in her own closet* Actually she wouldn't be caught dead in my closet well unless she was pinching a scarf.

I still like my idea of beginner contests. Perhapes though it needs to be amended to say the contest must have ended with at least 5 contestants. Added to that I would also say a person must not have had a lot featured. Both of these can be checked upon and doesn't just rest with the persons' honesty.

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
Mad Poster
#1443 Old 9th May 2018 at 11:28 PM
I like ending 3rd or higher in a competition - and since I was the one that ended 3rd when there were only 4 contestants left, I can assure you that I have no intention of taking part as a beginner I worked very hard in those last rounds and I received very high scores and I think my 3rd place was earned I was joking when I said earlier that I could talk you out of that - I never had any intentions to
Needs Coffee
retired moderator
#1444 Old 9th May 2018 at 11:35 PM
That's fine Petro, but I still think it's a valid point that the contest has to end with more than 3 people and 5 seems like a decent number. If I do a real beginner contest maybe you might like to be a judge? The contest that I am planning right now will be open so mute point.

This beginner contest is on my list and ideas are formulating. :D

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
Mad Poster
#1445 Old 9th May 2018 at 11:41 PM
I am afraid to be a judge, but then, sometimes one has to take up a challenge too, so yes A beginner's contest would be a good place to start, I think, as a judge too .
Needs Coffee
retired moderator
#1446 Old 9th May 2018 at 11:45 PM
You get a badge for it... I think for that contest judges would be more between judge and mentor.

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
Mad Poster
#1447 Old 9th May 2018 at 11:53 PM
Hehe I would have done it anyway, but a badge sounds good!
Link Ninja
#1448 Old 10th May 2018 at 12:46 AM
I had the fever to host, so I wrote up a template but then I realized...I don't want the stressssss just. quite. yet.

Uh oh! My social bar is low - that's why I posted today.

Mad Poster
#1449 Old 10th May 2018 at 12:52 AM
Quote: Originally posted by joandsarah77
Since Sarah is only 16 she doesn't qualify for a t-shirt. *Takes it back and tells her to stay in her own closet* Actually she wouldn't be caught dead in my closet well unless she was pinching a scarf...

OMG!!! Proof that my brain is seriously Swiss Cheesed ATM! Ya know, when I typed 'Sarah' I thought it felt strange. Duh, of course I know you are Jo *how embarrassing!*

I want to host a contest - but I'll wait until Jo's done her next one

Please ~ support my TS2 habit! Shop at my Etsy shops:
CatherinesJewelry ~ Artisan Jewelry
Catherine's MOUSE ~ Up/Recycled Jewelry
and Vintage Stuffeths
Toaster Strudel Addict
retired moderator
#1450 Old 10th May 2018 at 1:25 AM
*cackles maniacally at all the silly people who think they want to host a contest*

Just kidding, sort of, lol. Obviously, go for it. I just always think I feel like hosting one and then by the end of the second round I'm like "Oh for the love of Christmas! What was I thinking?!" But it's good to see so much potential life in the contest forums. I don't suppose any of you folks ideas are for contests for all three games are they? Because that would be great! I can't remember the last contest that was for only 3 or 4 (I don't think there's actually ever been a just 4). There are definitely more ts2 contests than the other two games, so contest for all three are always nice.
 
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