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Field Researcher
Original Poster
#1 Old 27th Sep 2014 at 11:41 PM
Default Build Mode Frustrations
As addition to my post here : http://www.modthesims.info/showthre...383#post4538383 about build mode annoyances,
I also added 2 short videos on youtube today, which partly shows the troubles I got while I was trying to create the Resident Evil - Spencer Mansion one more time.

((I've done a very detailed one on TheSims3 you can find here if anyone is curious: http://youtu.be/WVxN-LETGMs?list=UU...YpTyo5wqkeREq9Q ))

Anyways, as I am attempting to do it again for The Sims 4 also, the build mode is driving me nuts!

1-Can't create modular stairs. There isn't even a cheat for it anymore, since we don't have terrain tools this time.
2-Columns snap to the sides of the squares automatically, can't place them in a full square, can't move them free using "alt" there is no "moveobjects" cheat available.
3-Curved decks and floors are very tricky, they don't work at certain circumstances with no appareant reason.
4-Creating lofts are super frustrating since the game doesn't recognize the empty ceiling. Column heights are determined automatically. When you want to place 2 story cloumn through an empty ceiling from the first floor to the third, that doesn't work.
5-Can't create different levels within the same floor.
There used to be similar issues with the sims3 too but, working and tricking such limitations was a lot more easier in the sims 3. Now it is all impossible.

So here we go, my sims 4 build mode frustrations videos..
http://youtu.be/tWVY4GgsW0E
http://youtu.be/fieXEdjcl7I

Sul Sul! Hooba Noobie?
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Is Claeric
#2 Old 28th Sep 2014 at 12:03 AM
Looking at these videos, I think a lot of your problems (particularly those that aren't listed, but that you clearly show off by flapping the cursor around in a "look, look, it isn't working" manner are because you don't understand basic functions of build mode. Rooms in particular.
Is Claeric
#3 Old 28th Sep 2014 at 12:12 AM
No problems. Took me 2 minutes (including building all the junk pictured).



Loft added. No problem with the ceiling. There is no ceiling, as there are no tiles.



Problems 1 and 5 are completely invalid, since doing those things in other games were the result of abusing glitchy mechanics of a cheat that was never intended to be used in regular gameplay. The point about column height, too, is invalid, as two story columns do not exist to begin with, so of course you can't place two story columns.
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#4 Old 28th Sep 2014 at 12:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simify
Looking at these videos, I think a lot of your problems (particularly those that aren't listed, but that you clearly show off by flapping the cursor around in a "look, look, it isn't working" manner are because you don't understand basic functions of build mode. Rooms in particular.


I think you didn't understand what I am trying to show in those videos. The problem is, the building tools are too limited & intended to work ONLY in a certain way so that, there is no flexibility to apply any slight out-of-the-box ideas. Even the sims 3 was a lot more flexible with the help of cheats and the terrain tools.

Sul Sul! Hooba Noobie?
Is Claeric
#5 Old 28th Sep 2014 at 12:19 AM
Quote:
there is no flexibility to apply any slight out-of-the-box ideas


There is no flexibility to apply any of these specific things that you've hand picked to complain about, yes. Especially those that are only possible in other games due to a testing cheat and abuse of its broken glitchy mechanics. That doesn't mean there's no flexibility to be creative. Plus I just successfuly did the only two things you were complaining about that are supposed to be possible to begin with!
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#6 Old 28th Sep 2014 at 12:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simify
No problems. Took me 2 minutes (including building all the junk pictured).



Loft added. No problem with the ceiling. There is no ceiling, as there are no tiles.



On the first picture, you are using 2 squares wide balcony, so it's ok. The trouble happens when you need a 1 square balcony.
For the second picture, yes, the ceiling is ok, also mine is ok. But my problem about the ceiling is all about placing colums from bottom of the 1st floor to reach the ceiling of the second floor. Also creating those balconies are a lot more tricky when you try a more complex one.

Sul Sul! Hooba Noobie?
Is Claeric
#7 Old 28th Sep 2014 at 12:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by veronica55
On the first picture, you are using 2 squares wide balcony, so it's ok. The trouble happens when you need a 1 square balcony..


Is Claeric
#8 Old 28th Sep 2014 at 12:22 AM
Also, more than half of the second video is just footage of you having absolutely no idea whatsoever how to use the room tool.

It's a bit tricky to learn but you really need to learn how to use it before you go around getting upset that it isn't working. It's working pretty well, you just don't know how to use it.
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#9 Old 28th Sep 2014 at 1:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simify
Also, more than half of the second video is just footage of you having absolutely no idea whatsoever how to use the room tool.

It's a bit tricky to learn but you really need to learn how to use it before you go around getting upset that it isn't working. It's working pretty well, you just don't know how to use it.


Ok, can you please describe & show me how else can / should I use the room tool other than placing it as I do in the video. What am I missing exactly ?

Sul Sul! Hooba Noobie?
Pettifogging Legalist!
retired moderator
#10 Old 28th Sep 2014 at 1:47 AM
Moving to Build Mode. Carry on! =)

Stuff for TS2 TS3 TS4 | Please do not PM me with technical questions we have Create forums for that.

In the kingdom of the blind, do as the Romans do.
Is Claeric
#11 Old 28th Sep 2014 at 2:13 AM
Quote:
What am I missing exactly?


Well, for one, you're building rooms where you want there to be holes, and then getting frustrated when you can't add floor around where you want the holes, because there's no rooms there, because you left them as holes. You're doing it all ass backwards. You also don't seem to understand how to shape rooms by adding sections, and clicking and dragging the edges of those sections.
Pettifogging Legalist!
retired moderator
#12 Old 28th Sep 2014 at 2:21 AM
*ahem* Simify, can you tone it down please? Instead of telling them they're doing it "ass backwards" how about explaining how to do it instead? That would be more constructive.

Stuff for TS2 TS3 TS4 | Please do not PM me with technical questions we have Create forums for that.

In the kingdom of the blind, do as the Romans do.
Is Claeric
#13 Old 28th Sep 2014 at 2:29 AM
Uhh...I'll try to explain it, I suppose? Place the room. Then remove the holes.... Don't... place the holes first?

Holes are negative space. They shouldn't be there before the area they're negative...of...is. That's a double negative.

It's honestly difficult to explain because the concept of placing the holes in a room before placing the room itself is just so awkward. I don't really know how to explain it any better than the above. The way they did it is like putting hair extensions onto someone's head before cutting their hair and not understanding why they're upset when it ends up longer than it was when they started! Or I suppose it's more like cutting someone's hair extensions before putting them on, and finding they wanted them longer, and then trying to tape the shavings on...analogies are tough, the point is it's just so weirdly backwards that it's hard to figure out how to explain why.
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#14 Old 28th Sep 2014 at 2:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simify


Please try to place circular decks on all 4 corners of a square room, and connect them all with 1 square flat rooms or decks.

Edit: Actually I'm uploading another video will be ready in a few.

Sul Sul! Hooba Noobie?
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#15 Old 28th Sep 2014 at 2:57 AM
Ok here it is, I have no idea why it doesn't work when I connect them all...

http://youtu.be/OtiwYoNx4kg

Sul Sul! Hooba Noobie?
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#16 Old 28th Sep 2014 at 3:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by plasticbox
*ahem* Simify, can you tone it down please? Instead of telling them they're doing it "ass backwards" how about explaining how to do it instead? That would be more constructive.


Thank you, it's ok. They just don't get it, I get what he's trying to say, but in my specific case, the specific look that I'm trying to create doesn't work either if I place the room or the holes first. That doesn't matter.

Sul Sul! Hooba Noobie?
Is Claeric
#17 Old 28th Sep 2014 at 3:14 AM
There aren't supposed to be internal curves. That's not a situation the game understands. There is a house in oasis springs that has curved + sigh shaped holes in the flat deck rooves, and those holes connect to the outside of the home for that very reason instead of being separate from the edge of the roof. Curves can only exist on an external wall of a room, they cannot be the inside wall. They must be convex, they cannot be concave. When you complete the circuit, you are making them go from convex to concave.

As far as the game is concerned, once you connect them, that curve is being created from a different side of the floor. Look at this for an example. The INSIDE of the fence area is a curve. The OUTSIDE is not, because that would create a curve inside the foundation, not on the outside of it.



Basically, connecting them creates a "non-room" in the center, where the hole in the floor/ceiling is. You cannot have a room *inside* of a curved area, if that makes any sense. When they're not connected, that room is not *inside* of the curves.

The way curved walls/floors/whatnot works means this probably has a pretty complicated reasoning behind it, it's unlikely they just forgot to implement it or something like that.
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#18 Old 28th Sep 2014 at 3:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simify
There aren't supposed to be internal curves. That's not a situation the game understands. There is a house in oasis springs that has curved + sigh shaped holes in the flat deck rooves, and those holes connect to the outside of the home for that very reason instead of being separate from the edge of the roof. Curves can only exist on an external wall of a room, they cannot be the inside wall. They must be convex, they cannot be concave. When you complete the circuit, you are making them go from convex to concave.

As far as the game is concerned, once you connect them, that curve is being created from a different side of the floor. Look at this for an example. The INSIDE of the fence area is a curve. The OUTSIDE is not, because that would create a curve inside the foundation, not on the outside of it.



Basically, connecting them creates a "non-room" in the center, where the hole in the floor/ceiling is. You cannot have a room *inside* of a curved area, if that makes any sense. When they're not connected, that room is not *inside* of the curves.

The way curved walls/floors/whatnot works means this probably has a pretty complicated reasoning behind it, it's unlikely they just forgot to implement it or something like that.


Yes that's what it is. When TS4 was first announced, EA knew very well that people especially wanted circular walls, fences, modular stairs, indoor floor leveling/platforms, shortly more flexible, fun building features. But somehow they couldn't or didn't do that. You know, when I switch from ts3 to ts4 I was expecting a real improvement especially as they have been bragging about & emphisizing the new build mode A LOT and in the end, there are more missing features than the new fancy addition being able to move rooms around. Game is dictating way too much and those tiny bits, specific ideas & needs that I can not create frustrates me so I just wanted to share... I mean why the heck I can not place a silly column exactly where I want? I already used to be able to do it in ts3... May be I'm expecting too much idk, like the freedom of designing a building on autocad & revit LOL ..not that much of course.. but I would just like a bit more flexibility.

Sul Sul! Hooba Noobie?
Is Claeric
#19 Old 28th Sep 2014 at 5:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by veronica55
Yes that's what it is. When TS4 was first announced, EA knew very well that people especially wanted circular walls, fences, modular stairs, indoor floor leveling/platforms, shortly more flexible, fun building features. But somehow they couldn't or didn't do that. You know, when I switch from ts3 to ts4 I was expecting a real improveme-


Yeah, yeah, yeah, you can't do a few things you wanted, EA maliciously hates everybody, doesn't want anyone to be happy, worst game ever, we've heard it all before.

Look, it's too bad we can't do this, but it's an exceptionally rare situation, and if they didn't make it possible, they had a reason for doing so. Isn't that enough? Is that really not enough for people to understand? Game design is not magic. Anything can happen, but it has to be programmed by someone. The room system and the curved floor system have limitations within each other. This is one of them.

Do you want rounded rooms that don't work in this one specific configuration, or no rounded rooms at all? Because either they compromise with things that are too difficult to manage with the system, or they don't do them at all. They chose to do them with a compromise.

Be creative. Attempt to solve problems and limitations with creativity. Stop the balcony short and use the space to put a huge painting on the wall spanning both floors. Stick two stories worth of window there. Cover the entire wall in various paintings. Huge drapes that look like a giant tapestry. Leave a block of space from either side of the balcony, put a single tile width of floor, give it an edging, and put a bunch of plants on there. Use walls to make a grand chimney for a large fireplace. Any of these options is more productive and solves more problems.

I guess I feel like "I can't do this specific thing" does not equate to "There's no flexibility here". That part of your attitude is just bugging me a lot, sorry. Like going to Disney World and finding the bumper cars are out of order. "I just expected more things to ride." Isn't that silly? You have the entire park at your disposal. Letting one thing turn the experience into a stilted one with no options is...gah. Go ride something else. Go get a churro.
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#20 Old 29th Sep 2014 at 7:50 PM
I don't know why my simple annoyances about some aspects of ts4's buid mode bothers you this much, and I have no idea why you feel the urge to defend the game as if it's fully your very own creation&product and why you became so mad about my thread. May be you're having a bad day or something? Anyways, on the other hand, I didn't say anything about the game being the worst game ever or EA hated everybody.. etc. You are just exaggerating it way too much and making me think that you are just looking for a virtual fight which I am not up for. I am here for sharing what I think, and friendly discussions not for nonsense personal attacking conversations.

Sul Sul! Hooba Noobie?
Is Claeric
DELETED POST
29th Sep 2014 at 9:38 PM
This message has been deleted by plasticbox. Reason: Unconstructive. Cut it out now.
Field Researcher
#21 Old 29th Sep 2014 at 9:59 PM
Simify, you are coming off as VERY aggressive on a subject that really doesn't warrant such an attitude. Your posts basically read like you're going off on someone that doesn't deserve it.
I'm not a mod, but as someone who enjoys reading other's problems with the game here and their attempts at circumvent them, I urge you to remember Plastic Box's advice.
Give it flippin REST.

This is a HELP forum, not an "Admonish People" Forum.
dodgy builder
#22 Old 29th Sep 2014 at 11:11 PM Last edited by Volvenom : 30th Sep 2014 at 8:47 AM.
I suggest to focus on the things that can be done and try working around the things you can't do. This might be a project you have to come back to later with more expansions and more tools. They have promised us cfe, so we can hope.

I had a look at some pictures of that house and it looks to me like you need a 2 floor high room and then you want rounded balconies inside it. You will just have to give yourself more time with cappuccino's along the way. I would probably try to build the 2 floor high room first and then put up the balconies later, but making a two floor high room isn't all that straight forword either.

I made a tutorial on a 2 floor high room with lights the right way here: http://www.volvenomtullarask.com/tu...or-high-hallway
You will just have to see if you can build the balconies then. You have to trick the game somehow. Don't forget coffee, lots of coffee Try doing things in different sections and do it in a different sequence from time to time. Like putting up the room on the second floor, putting up balconies, knocking down floor, or putting up room on the second floor, knocking down floor and then put up the balconies.

When you do what always turned out to be crucial in TS3 and TS4 doesn't seem to be any different.

Morning edit: I have seen that the game likes to ruin things done at an earlier stage, so when you have found your solution you might want to go back to scratch, build you house without all the special things, and then add the special stuff later when you don't risk ruining things you have already done. Just a tip, but it might not be useful I don't know.
Pettifogging Legalist!
retired moderator
#23 Old 30th Sep 2014 at 10:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volvenom
They have promised us cfe


Where? I only know "There is no technical reason that this cannot be supported" .. that is not a promise.

http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/dis...urumodsquad-cfe <-- need EA login to view

Stuff for TS2 TS3 TS4 | Please do not PM me with technical questions we have Create forums for that.

In the kingdom of the blind, do as the Romans do.
dodgy builder
#24 Old 2nd Oct 2014 at 10:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by plasticbox
Where? I only know "There is no technical reason that this cannot be supported" .. that is not a promise.

http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/dis...urumodsquad-cfe <-- need EA login to view


There is so much back and forth, I don't remember where I read it. Can't be bothered to search, I have some houses in need of an upload instead
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#25 Old 2nd Oct 2014 at 3:50 PM
Ghosts are here and pools are coming. I don't know how cfe will work since we don't have terrain tools which means no floor elevation to constrain lol I guess if we ever get cfe, there should be terrrain tools and even "moveobjects" cheat should be included with that update.

Actually having pools back already adds the ability to modify the terrain in a certain way. If I were EA, I would pack all these together:
Pools,
basements,
terrain tools,
CFE,
moveobjects.

Cuz they are all related, tied to eachother imo.

Sul Sul! Hooba Noobie?
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