Sims 3 is really not like every other moddable game out there though. Let alone all other games in general (I am really glad it is not the case). It is in it's own class apart in how much issues vanilla game can cause and how much you can change the game with mods.
Just looking at posts about TS3 on Steam gives you an impression about how people (who are probably not be as invested as us in TS3) look at TS3. It is mostly two-sided . The people for who TS3 runs acceptable (again, very subjective imo) think it is a great game. The people who encounter issues and decide it is unplayable for them, the game is shit. Because they give up before realising how great this game can be. You can see that on TS3 posts/reviews on Steam and anytime TS4 is compared to TS3 and how TS4 players respond about this. TS3, unlike TS4 (and the majority of other games) is always being criticised for being unstable, buggy and laggy. Not because the gameplay is bad. This alone sets TS3 apart from most other games. You see that more there because they can already post/review there if they buy the game on Steam. They will not come here just to register to tell how shit the game runs.

Anyway, this can't be explained away with some platitude about life. The game just runs like shit. The TS3 engine is severely lacking for the amount of official content you can install from EP's. The majority of games, also games with a lot of DLC, don't run this bad. I also sometimes suspect that people who play a lot of different games, notice this more easily. If you only play TS3, then how do you even compare ?(not saying you do btw, just meant in general).

And about that 95%. How many of those 95% vanilla players run or even own many ep's? If they just play base game for a while and then move on to other games for whatever reason, you can say they played TS3 without a problem. But most of the potential issues don't really start until you also install a lot of expansion packs or use certain worlds. Sunset Valley for example is fine with just base game.

I sometimes get the impression on these forums that this is just an echo chamber within a community that is already modding the game. I am guilty of this too ofc, especially with my criticism about TS3 and TS4 and I realise that most ppl who ever tried these games don't really care. But this is also why I think that this community is not a fair representation of how TS3 is perceived in general. People who end up registering here, are already invested in TS3. And are willing to invest time to fix problems with TS3 or just mod the game. And it is great that you can alleviate most potential issues with those great mods. And the amount of people doing this, also shows how great this game is. But this is besides the point, because those mods should not be necesary to begin with.

You guys are maybe too hardcore without realising :p

It runs poorly for SOME people but not everyone. If everyone it would have folded early on. This section of the forums is still more active than 4. And yes, we mod more than others, but we do not represent the majority of players and the folks that post anywhere do not represent the majority of players.

Companies do not produce what is it 12 EPs and all the stuff packs and worlds if the players all gave up after the base game or an EP or 2. Players bought EPs and all to the end as their games ran well enough, and most players with no mods.

I believe that it stands to reason as well that people are quick to judge TS3 without ever really giving it a chance. In the early days of TS3's lifespan, most of the complaints were directed at the game's features, not performance. As time went on, that hardly changed. Before TS4's announcement, people that were never fans of TS3 to begin with were practically begging for it to be released already. In the end, as they say, be careful what you wish for.

I'd wager that most of the performance issues come from the fact that a good quarter (and probably a higher percentage than that) of the Sims community have those issues because 1) They're playing on a severely underpowered system, those spec requirements are there for a reason, so stop using Grandma's computer to play 2) They dial up every single graphics option to the max, cram as much as they possibly can into their games, and somehow expect all of that to work in harmony.

In the end, if slight performance dips are all I have to contend with to play, I'd much rather have that than scaling back to TS1.5. Smooth or not, a newer game should not have its sole positive aspect as better performance with all the sacrifices in gameplay at the forefront. And if we're going to discuss bad game engines, look no further than TS4's. I don't have enough appendages to count the number of excuses that Grant has made for why they can't implement feature #574 that previous games had.

I think that if it comes to performance issues with TS3, you have to keep in mind how many expansion packs the game now has. So early days is not a fair comparison anymore. Only the state of the game it currently is. So when someone buys TS3 with a bunch of expansions during sale on Steam, they don't experience 'early days'. So the chance is much higher that they run into performance issues in that situation. It is also very difficult to justify that TS3 still can run this poorly on nowadays gaming pc's. I believe that this is unique to TS3 when comparing to other old games. And the amount performance can be improved and issues can be prevented with community made mods, is also quite unique to this game and shows how poorly made this game is.

Most gamers also don't invest a lot of time to get a game running smoothly, if it requires more then a simple .ini fix. They just refund and complain and it is their right. Because it should not be their job. There are nowadays a ridiculous amount of games that have no performance issues, so for many people the choice is easily made. WIth no sims game history, they might just go for TS4 instead and then decide that TS3 is a bad game because of the performance hurdle.



No you can objectively say that this game runs like shit. Otherwise there would be no official neighbourhood remakes with fixed routing, or Errortrap, Overwatch etc. That you manage the game to run well enough to not notice these problems, just means that your modern pc is powerful enough to do it despite these problems. And your save game can still go corrupt if you don't take precautions (multiple savegames, savegame cleaner, take your pick).



To be clear, I think TS3 is a great game, but technically it is a bad piece of software. And many people will not get over that last part (Steam reviews/threads show that). They simply play something else instead.

Anyway, if you make a thread about this that is mostly read by people that you know are willing to put in the effort in modding/fixing the game, it is not so surprising that many will agree with you. I think it is called in English 'preaching to the choir'?

At this point, I don't know what to respond. You are picking apart and belittling our replies with "no, you're wrong and here's why." We have not once invalidated your post, we are merely sharing our experience with how our games function. Yet you repeatedly retort that TS3 runs terribly for everyone and present it as fact, as if you're the spokesperson for the entire Sims community. Have you spoken to all of these people playing TS3, Steam or otherwise? Did they tell you specifically what their setups are, configs, etc? My guess is no.

Saying that TS3 objectively runs terribly does not make sense, objectively would mean it's the same case for everybody. It is not. This would be a -subjective- statement, because people will feel differently about it. Whether or not people are "willing" to make sure their game stays healthy, there's no reason to be going around acting like some authority on TS3 opinions. I've personally heard just as many people, people I actually know, with completely vanilla games say their games run fine. Many with no mods, cc, anything but official content. If people don't want to make use of the FREE resources available to keep their game stable, that's their right. But saying other games don't have problems is asinine. Why do you think PCGamingWiki is such a widely used online resource? Because in a lot of cases, guess what? Developers release PC ports of games as an afterthought. Many of them need several tweaks just to get up and running. At least TS3 was actually developed with PCs in mind.

We have presented clear and definite responses to your input. This idea of treating us like immature children who don't know what they're talking about needs to stop.

My TS3 game doesn't run like shit. I'm not wrong & I don't care what anyone says. Unless someone is sitting in front of my PC, you don't know how my game runs. I don't have a "great" or "modern" PC. My PC is nearly 6 years old, and the only upgrade its had in those years is a replacement graphics card. It's still using an older i5, 16gb of ram and a GF GTX 750 Ti. Nothing flash by all means but my game runs really nicely. I rarely have issues, and the last problem I had was a game crash that "ate" one of my saved games on a world that I was building up.

Yes, I mod it. Should I have to? Of course not. It would be nice if EA hadn't band-aided the shit out of the entire game, but they have. It has its faults, and anyone who plays and loves the game will admit that. None of that detracts from the fact that my game runs all right, and I highly doubt I'm the only one with a decently running game. I don't overload it with high poly, broken or poorly made CC. I'm discerning in what I download, and how I tweak both my PC and my game.

Edit - There are some people on the officials in the TS3 section who don't use mods or CC and don't have many or any issues with their games either.

I find that most people that have complained that TS3 runs so badly that its unplayable, have been people trying to run the game on laptops that should have been retired in 1950. With all EP's , SP's store and a bunch of badly made CC alongside a metric ton of Newsea gazillion poly hairs... and then complain that they need help getting to run their game without lag. The game isn't to blame for that kind of rubbish. I gave up helping in the tech section, because I don't have the patience ( like Igazor does ) for people who cry for help but refuse to remove 10 gigs of CC to locate a problem, and only want to scream about how EA have created a substandard game.
I rarely give EA any credit, and have nothing but the lowest form of contempt for them, but they ( nor their game ) aren't to blame for stupid user error.

As for Steam recommendations.. Lol, I wouldn't pay a single scrap of attention to anyone's review from there. Half of them can't even form complete sentences - paragraphs written almost entirely in chatspeak hardly count as "reviews"

Since I have for some reason been identified as someone who has more than average patience trying to help fellow players, not really sure where that assessment comes from but let's go with that, I would like to share my impression of the "average" Steam player participating on the Steam forums. Again, this meant to be the TS3 Steam forum and review participants, nothing to do with those of us (like me) who just happen to be running Steam installs rather than disc/Origin and I have no information on other games' forum boards there.

(blows raspberries)

I can't help most anyone in that environment, although I do try occasionally. These players, not all of them but the vast majority I've tried to work with, are constantly surrounded by a huge barrage of games right at their fingertips and vying for their attention. Even if they see the value in taking steps to get TS3 to perform better for them, whether we're talking about mods or something more basic like getting their fps rates capped, they lose interest far more quickly than those I have encountered elsewhere and just go on to play something else instead. And they love to argue back when no argument was even called for on the silliest of things. One in particular I was working with just today was experiencing a relatively obscure error on their saved games. I worked with them for a bit, asked them to please stop uninstalling and reinstalling the game and explained why that's not going to help, and explained twice that there are no solutions for already corrupt sims/games on the level they had described other than to take some actions to prevent that from happening next time so let's talk about those instead. Their reaction just now was to delete all of their threads, so not only was I not helpful but nothing I said or directed them to remains on that forum for anyone else to see.

That's only one anecdotal case of course, and it could have happened anywhere, but it's pretty typical of the players I have been trying to help there for what must be a year now, on and off, and that's in between the bouts of totally immature gibberish and insults to other players sprinkled throughout. And how dare I ever try direct players there back to NRaas if they need our more direct assistance, for example with script error logs. That suggestion almost always falls like a lead balloon. I would regard the Steam forums (and reviews) and attitudes of those participating in game related discussions there as just as extreme as here on MTS but in the opposite direction. So many players are not looking for anything even approaching a lifelong commitment to their sims, they want a game they can load NOW and that will amuse them for a couple of hours or days maybe, without having to worry about any long-term effects on their game files or Error Code (choose your favorite number, it doesn't even have to be 12) along the way. A much more balanced population of players both willing and unwilling to use mods can be found discussing their games on the EA forums, for those who are willing and able to tolerate that environment.

Under the hood, the game does run like crap on any kind of system. I'm not going to deny that. It takes far more computing power, fixit mods, and patience to keep things running than it would if things were optimized at least somewhat properly. But when we say "the game runs well" anyway, most of us mean that to us, the players, the results are satisfying despite being the extreme model of inefficiency that it still is. The value to us is in that overworked game engine, the open world, its design tools, the well thought out, cute, and entertaining things that the game provides, and its depth of play, which all together far outweigh its otherwise horrifying behind the scenes operations. That's what draws so many of us to play this game and that's what inspired the superstar game mod developers to do what they have done/still do. We/they still see the potential in this amazing game and want it to do more of what it was intended to do for us and many of us continue to be disappointed that a worthy successor to the game utilizing more modern than 2009 technology has still not yet been realized, at least not without changing the nature of things so much that it's a totally different game.

I believe that a more balanced approach to "Just how great/lousy is TS3 anyway?", which is of course going to be subjective no matter how it's looked at, would take into account players coming to it from all kinds of directions. Not just those I've described as "average" Steam participants with somewhat limited attention spans or us total nutcases here on MTS with more historical perspective who are probably willing to jump through more hoops than most anyone else to keep our games running and entertain us in ways that EA may never have even imagined, but all of us.

Those people have it all wrong, our Sims are the ones who have the realistic emotions. Not the confused, erratic, hyperactive wrecks of TS4. No, ours are the ones who show what they feel without horribly overdoing it. I could show you a dozen different types of excitement, these Sims have them all.

I totally agree. I am playing on an about 7 year old i7 with an HD6570, so old stuff and I play with all high settings and every EP and SP produced except K Perry which I did not buy. And I have played since 1 was released so know how Sims games play. So for someone to tell me all games run poorly is total BS. I use overwatch and clean caches and that is about it for maintenance.

A game that runs like garbage for everyone does not sell over 10 million copies.
https://www.google.com/search?ei=hh.....0.1wYo7KOM5U4

Sry guys, I didn't mean to piss you all off. I just think TS3 is a bad piece of software with great gameplay and that it sometimes takes more work to run properly then it should. Routing fixes and Nraas performance enhancing mods should not be necessary imo. They should have become obsolete after fixes from EA. But they didn't and it still annoys me.
So everytime I see a post that makes it look as if this is not the situation because it just happens to run fine on their pc, it rubs me the wrong way. And then I tend to go on and on if I don't watch myself.

But then I once made the mistake to start a discussion about why Win 10 update policies are so bad on the forums of Windows Insider Program. It kind of was like running into a church on Sunday morning and starting a debate about whether God really exists. I guess I am not a good judge of these kind of situations. Something about time and place and knowing when to shut up or something.

Anyway, I like this community (whether you like it or not) and just will agree to disagree then

P.S. I never intended to insult anyone, but I know that I can be blunt enough to do that, so I am sorry.

Well, I'd say I'm mature enough to let bygones be bygones. No harm done for me personally. But FYI, it's OK to have the opinion that TS3 doesn't satisfy your desire for smooth gameplay. That was never the issue with your posts. BUT, presenting your opinions can always be done without being so blunt and calling out others on their opinions. It makes it seem as if you're grasping at straws trying to make a point. Just something to work on in the future.

I have families designed literally for this, given I played Sims 3 for years and picking it up again, I have some that I cheat on just so I can get to the story I want, and then some families I do my best not to cheat on (Usually the Legacy/Poverty or other challenge sims), usually I like the latter the most because I spend so much time on their outfits, personality, etc that I kinda fall in love with them and cry out when they die (I have a sad photo of one legacy sim, as a ghost kissing Titania Summerdream, her late wife, when you play them properly it gives you the feels, which quickly to the first post in this thread goes with Sims having emotions, I dunno if it's just me but Titania looks pained kissing her ghost ex, knowing she will never properly hold her again, might just be what I want to see but I think Sims have emotions for sure). I do have some mods that kinda take some stuff out (Such as no curfew, because it's just annoying and unrealistic, I do have faster skill building but that's okay, it's only when they read the books that it's fast, everything else takes it's time. Stuff that can be easily ignored if I choose it.).


Someone on another post mentioned supernaturals and life simulator, I am actually glad they added the supernaturals, I like the aliens, witches, vampires, they give different interesting stories, and as a person who writes paranormal/fantasy stories, it helps build a Sim verison of the characters and what "life state" they are on.

I'm not pissed off.
This is absolutely correct. TS3 is a terribly damaged piece of software. It had marvelously grand ambitions, but poor execution, sadly. As I said, anyone who plays or loves TS3 will definitely admit it has its issues, but a lot of us love it just the same.

What does ruffle me is when people insist that it is impossible to have the game run nicely, or at least decently. It isn't. It is fully possible to have a comfortably running TS3 game with little to no issues apart from a little lag when your save game gets too enormous.
I found my game settled and became far more playable once EA stopped patching it. I was incredibly happy that day. Because EVERY time they patched that game, they broke something else. And I think it got to the point where they were just so overwhelmed they no longer knew how to fix it, so it just got dumped, and is now used as a source of ridicule, even by its developers, to extol the ( non ) apparent virtues of TS4.

Yes, it requires mods, and it shouldn't, I totally agree. But, it can't be helped, especially if you want your game to behave. It just requires a bit of effort and some TLC and many of us are happy to give it that, because of the enjoyment that the game gives us in return.

I love TS3, I love its pudding sims that lots of people say are hideous, and it has given me more joy over the last 9 years than any other game, bar TS2. ( and probably more rage )

Interesting. Because when I checked in on The Jetsons here, the other day, I was surprised by how okay these puddings look. Sure they're a little rough, but the art style is almost cute.

To each their own really.

I can't see your example by the way, so I can't give you any advice.
It has been, in my experience, that people who say they can't make decent looking TS3 sims usually don't play around enough with the sliders, and just slap some makeup on a default face.
I don't know if that's your case, but a) using a default replacement skin helps a lot, b) don't be afraid to play around with the sliders, there is an undo button, and c) if your not averse to using custom sliders, download some and see if it helps you. Using a mod that extends the range of the sliders also helps.

You can make lovely TS3 sims, it just requires some work. A lot of people are great at making their sims look diverse. I'm not. Mine always come out looking virtually the same, apart from slight differences. I think I've become stuck in a rut, though I've accepted that is just my "style" and left it at that.
Perhaps others could give you some pointers if you're actually interested in making TS3 sims.

I think the sims Pi posted above look quite nice.

I think that's the problem I lack the skill set to make sims look at least halfway decent and whenever I try they just turn out looking like that and I was using sliders, default skin and eyes to make the sims and yet she still looked even worse than before the makeover. I did play around with the sliders a lot but the more I tweaked and changed stuff around the uglier she becomes.

As I am sure you all are tired of hearing, I play legacy style, so almost all sims I play other than a few I have created to be spouses when there is nothing of interest in town, have been born in the game whether in my family or game generated. I have had some darn good looking sims in the family and offhand cannot remember a butt ugly one. I may have tweaked a nose or so over the years, but I guess the family has good genes, and fugly townies do not marry in. I know they are quirky, but I like them, I get a tad tired of the eye rolls and looking at the ceiling, but I think the Sims in 3 are fun to play.

I have had some utterly hideous born in game sims Most of my sim children, when I actually have families often turn out looking awful, because of the prominent features, especially noses, that my sims normally have.

I did have some luck with one of my couples once, who produced ( I thought ) two really nice looking children that actually didn't require any editing except having a change of hairstyle. They are teenagers in these pictures and are actually a fair mixture of both of their parents, which is surprising to me since my sim children are usually horrors, or clones of one or the other parent. The boy did grow into those ears and that forehead when he aged to YA

Dang what kind of sorcery did you do on your sims and what cc did you put on them such as the skin,outfits and hair? They look beautiful which is a lot more than I can say about my sims who mostly either turn out ugly or just look the same but to be fair they're mostly sims that are generated by the game and we all know that it doesn't do as well of a job making unique sims and doesn't make you want to gouge your eyes out trying to look at them. Here's a before and after pic of my sim that I was editing and if you're wondering why my game looks so sharp it's because i'm using SweetFX. She looks a lot better now after some tweaking.

I really like your Sims, Pary, and what fabulous hair.

I use a default replacement skin, replacement eyes, and about 8 custom sliders, as well as a mod that extends the slider range, though I only have mine set at 2x rather than anything excessive, which I suppose could be my problem for "same face sims"

They're not using a lot of custom makeup or anything, just replacement brows and eyelashes. The lipstick on the girl is custom but she's wearing EA eyeshadow, it's just a very light brown, and the opacity slider is quite low.

With a bit of practise and some fiddling around, it really isn't hard to get decent looking sims. The first thing you should always adjust is the head width slider. TS3 sims have really fat little heads, and it can usually be adjusted quite a bit to give them a more normal looking appearance. Usually EA default eye size is also enormous so they can be adjusted as well. Often the jaw is far too thin as well.

There isn't any sorcery, it's just playing about with sliders. It might help you perhaps if you downloaded a "base" sim from someone and practised with the sliders on that. EA randomised default sims are dreadful, and really shouldn't be considered anything nice that the game has to offer. Sims can look better. It just takes some time and, if you're inclined, some replacement CC.

Everyone's definition of beauty is different. Just make some sims that you're happy with, and that you think are lovely. I like crooked noses and prominent jaws - faces with character rather than cutesy, and the sims I think look nice, someone else would probably hate.

Edit- I can finally see pictures. The second picture of your sim is really cute ! She looks adorable. I actually really love her face.
In the first one, it seems perhaps that her mouth is a bit far forward and could be causing that shadow under her nose? Either way, I really like her. And, sometimes the lighting in game can highlight what may look like a flaw, but seen again in a different light or shadow, and it seems to go away.

Thank you daisylee I was lucky with those sims. Other children haven't been so... normal looking lol.

Whenever I do make some sims from scratch, like I did to populate a new world, first thing I do is make the heads narrower. Absolutely!

Thank you. I just decided to tweak her face again and I kept doing it until I was satisfied with the end results and I was just wondering what are the names of the cc you were using on them and where you got them from because I want them in my game too.

Some odd disagrees I see about zero controversial. Anyway.............. a girl just aged up to teen in my game. Her cousin, an older teen in the household, is quite pretty. She aged up and I said yikes! But all I had to do was change her hair and eyebrows, and now I like her a lot. Sometimes all they need is a simple change or 2.

I use these defaults -

Mango Smoothie skin
Brntwaffles Eye Blend
Sliders Here

Eyelashes -

Sclub Eyelashes Mesh Female
SClub Eyelash Mesh Male
Eyelash Styles
Eyelash Sliders ( To adjust position + Length )

Eyebrows -

Kurasoberina Brows


I use Awesomemod for the slider extension, but Master Controller does it too if I remember correctly. Someone will correct me if I'm mistaken

You can find hair retextures and styles just about everywhere, as well as makeup and other stuff.
Hope that helps !