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Alchemist
Original Poster
#1 Old 6th Feb 2010 at 6:14 PM Last edited by orangemittens : 17th Feb 2010 at 12:44 PM. Reason: Changed thread title to be more descriptive
Default MilkShape Mapping-Separating Faces
When you say separate faces what do you mean?

eta: if you're meaning what I think it isn't hard although, at times, can be tedious. I posted about it in another thread which I've been looking for and cannot find.

Anyway, you can open the Texture Coordinator Editor after having applied your IMG as a Material to your object. You can select the face you want to separate from the rest of the object there and then, back in the 4 panel view of MS you can Move just that face. This allows you to delete just that face. Then save the rest with new names for each group. Bring back the original object. Delete everything except the face you deleted before. Import the saved object with new names (the one with the deleted face).

Now you have your object but one face is separate and can be mapped separately. Do this over and over until you've pulled the whole object apart into its separate faces and you have full control over your mapping. There's probably an easier way but this is how I do it.

When I posted that, Wes posted about a tool he has for this which might simplify things...but I don't have it and I don't know what it does. Sigh...I wish I could search out that thread for you.

I'm still learning MS too. I just learned about the Flatten function a couple of days ago. All this time I've been matching faces up moving them 0.00001 at a time...incredibly tedious and very time consuming to get to come out perfectly matched up. Objects took days to make this way. Now I just click that button and things are all lined up. I should probably just stop meshing until I can get through all the information out there on MS...heh.
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Pettifogging Legalist!
retired moderator
#2 Old 8th Feb 2010 at 4:29 PM
Quote: Originally posted by orangemittens
You can select the face you want to separate from the rest of the object there and then, back in the 4 panel view of MS you can Move just that face. This allows you to delete just that face. Then save the rest with new names for each group. Bring back the original object. Delete everything except the face you deleted before. Import the saved object with new names (the one with the deleted face).

Now you have your object but one face is separate and can be mapped separately. Do this over and over until you've pulled the whole object apart into its separate faces and you have full control over your mapping. There's probably an easier way but this is how I do it.

Holy cow o.O

If this is the way to do it (which I kind of doubt, but then I don't know much about Milkshape) it would be *loads* faster to just export the whole thing and do the UV mapping elsewhere. Particularly when you're already exporting to .obj anyway .. that seems to be more or less a standard format that pretty much everything can use.

Stuff for TS2 · TS3 · TS4 | Please do not PM me with technical questions – we have Create forums for that.

In the kingdom of the blind, do as the Romans do.
Inventor
#3 Old 8th Feb 2010 at 6:31 PM
OM, you're not talking about face as in one polygon, are you?
You can select one specific face (or several) in the normal Milkshape windows with changing to selection "by face" instead of "by vertex" under the "Selekt" tab.
What is that Flatten function you talk about, where can I find that, I don't think I know that one?
Me? Sarcastic? Never.
staff: administrator
#4 Old 8th Feb 2010 at 8:19 PM
I find Milkshape much harder to use than Wings. In wings I can specify a bounding box, be vertice, vertex, or face and then move another to that exact position. Please elaborate on this flatten function.

The mapping in Milkshape is much more work than UVmapper, Wings is pretty good at that but I'm not good yet.
Inventor
#5 Old 8th Feb 2010 at 10:16 PM
You know, I could have sworn this info was in another thread.

Anyway, I have found the Flatten function in the Vertex menu, but still have no idea how to use that.

OM, maybe Wes was talking about the Unimesh plugins.
They where made for TS2 but still very valuable for meshing with Milkshape inTS3. I would not want to mesh without them actually.
I do not know if all the tools included within are used for object meshing, but they have a normals and vertex data merge function amongst others, which makes placing 2 vertices in exactly the same position as easy as select and 1 click.
You could also use Manual edit from Milkshape or Extended Manual Edit plugin from Demon432, in case there are 2 vertices on the same place (seams) and you only want to move one of them. He also made a plugin to be able to only align the selected normals.
I also use a Milkshape plugin from CatOfEvilGenius, that has the possibility to give your vertex the exact same position on the UVmap as the one you use as parent/reference.
I have links to these plugins on that old thread with programs to install for object meshing here
http://www.modthesims.info/showthre...941#post2874941
Me? Sarcastic? Never.
staff: administrator
#6 Old 8th Feb 2010 at 10:31 PM
Sockpuppet
#7 Old 8th Feb 2010 at 10:48 PM
So you got a screwed up uvmap?
Happened to me so many times and altho it does look difficult to fix, it isn't that bad.
Let me have a look
Alchemist
Original Poster
#8 Old 9th Feb 2010 at 1:39 AM Last edited by orangemittens : 9th Feb 2010 at 1:56 AM.
It's one way which works PB I've used MS exclusively for several years and this is how I've always pulled things apart to remap. It certainly beats a pixel by pixel approach and gives you complete control over every part of the object's map. It's very easy...although it can be time consuming. But doubt it if you like...lol.

Honestly, if there's an easier way to accomplish the same task using only MS I'd love to know it.

Cocomama, you're right, it *was* in another thread. I looked again unsuccessfully where this was briefly discussed before and again no luck. This lack of search function makes it more difficult to find things that's for sure although I'm sure there must be a good reason for it.

I'm mostly talking about pulling apart a complex mesh in order to take pieces and parts from it or to remap the whole. Using this method makes it very simple to take something like a Sims 2 object and convert it to a Sims 3 object for example. You can pull apart the component parts and remap them to allow for the differences in Sims 2 and Sims 3 objects this way.

Flatten allows you to take any pixels you like and choose to flatten them to the same place in x, y, or z direction. It was a revelation to me and has really sped up my ability to make a mesh. Choose the pixels you want to be touching, click the flatten button, select which direction you want them to be the same place in and wala...they're in the same place. The mirror I was having texture size issues with was made using this. Before it would have taken me forever to make it...this way it took very little time.

Eta: I posted a pic of this mirror (with nasty texture I warn you ) in a recent thread here in the meshing section.

The thing Wes mentioned was in a discussion of separating parts of objects in MS not regarding moving pixels to the same place...although maybe it works in reverse? I don't know.

Anyway, sorry to digress in the first thread HL and thank you for splitting this off. I don't want the bedding peaks thing to get lost either. It's been languishing in the bed thread and the new thread is helpful.
Pettifogging Legalist!
retired moderator
#9 Old 9th Feb 2010 at 2:30 AM
After a five-second Google search, it would appear that in order to map individual parts of a mesh in MS, all you need to do is regroup them. That would make a lot more sense than exporting and reimporting every single face of a mesh.

I'm under the impression that in most editors, you remap parts simply by selecting and unwrapping them (no regrouping needed); I don't have any firsthand experience with anything but blender though (where it works that way).

Also, do you mean vertices by "pixels"?

Also, do you know that the canonical way to make a simple box-shaped mesh (like your mirror) is 1. make a cube, 2. scale/resize it? That way you don't need to align (flatten) anything at all, since a cube is already rectangular.

Stuff for TS2 · TS3 · TS4 | Please do not PM me with technical questions – we have Create forums for that.

In the kingdom of the blind, do as the Romans do.
Alchemist
Original Poster
#10 Old 9th Feb 2010 at 2:32 AM
1. If the parts you want to map are in a single group already you can't regroup them to get them to be separate. So in this case, the solution you recommend won't work.

2. Got me there PB...I just work with the little dots. What people want to call them is up to them

3. I'm not sure what you mean by make a cube. If you're talking about an MS cube that won't work for what I wanted to accomplish with my mirror for fairly obvious reasons.

Thanks for your kind consideration of the issues though
Alchemist
Original Poster
#11 Old 17th Feb 2010 at 12:27 PM
Sorry for the double post but, now that the Search function is working again, I found the post I was looking for.

Cocomama, you were right and the tool is part of the Unimesh set although maybe not the set people get by default? Anyway:

Quote: Originally posted by WesHowe
I have an Auto Smoothing Group tool from the UniMesh set that should work, but it is not part of the default MilkShape distribution. It uses the basic method OM describes to separate all the discrete UV map areas into different smoothing groups. Generally, different layers and parts have to be textured separately.

You can then select by smoothing group. It is one of the plugins in the package here: http://www.modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=122399.

So this is probably an easier way of separating the different parts of a complex mesh but I've never tried it and I still have trouble getting the smoothing groups thing to work for me.
Sockpuppet
#12 Old 17th Feb 2010 at 2:09 PM
Quote: Originally posted by orangemittens
All this time I've been matching faces up moving them 0.00001 at a time...incredibly tedious and very time consuming to get to come out perfectly matched up. Objects took days to make this way. Now I just click that button and things are all lined up. I should probably just stop meshing until I can get through all the information out there on MS...heh.


Still confused about wat it is that your trying to achieve but these tips might help?
*If you import your mesh with autosmooth on you will see all seperated parts in the 3d view, with seperated i mean the parts that are mapped individually on the uvmap.
* Not many people know that MS has a autosnap function when you are editing the uvmap.
When you want to line up 2 vertices on the uvmap you need to to move them as close as possible, then zoom in on those 2 again.
When zoomed in close enough and bringing one selected vertice to the 2nd vertice one will automaticly snap to the other.
It is even possible to weld those 2 together again.(if needed)
But like i said, i am a bit confused wat it is that you want.(prolly my crappy english)
Alchemist
Original Poster
#13 Old 18th Feb 2010 at 12:50 AM
Your English is fine Base...I'm probably just being incoherent again...lol.

I'm talking about matching up the faces on the actual mesh itself not the map. And I've been told that using Autosmooth creates normals problems with the mesh. How do you avoid that and still use the Autosmooth?

And when you say, "When you want to line up 2 vertices on the uvmap you need to to move them as close as possible, then zoom in on those 2 again." I wonder what you mean by zoom. Is it possible to zoom in closer when you're in the Texture Coordinator Editor? If so I didn't know that and would appreciate it if you could teach me how to do it...that would be most helpful.

Thanks for your help
Me? Sarcastic? Never.
staff: administrator
#14 Old 18th Feb 2010 at 1:57 AM Last edited by HugeLunatic : 18th Feb 2010 at 2:11 AM.
Alchemist
Original Poster
#15 Old 18th Feb 2010 at 2:47 AM Last edited by orangemittens : 18th Feb 2010 at 2:59 AM.
Here is a pic of my menu in the Milkshape Texture Coordinator Editor:



I don't see a view selected button so I don't know where to go from there.

(and I have the most current version)

Where can I find it?

Thanks for your help.

eta: Jeesh...and now I'm thinkin' one of us should just rename this thread to Milkshape mapping since it has digressed yet again. Can't help it...I'm just a digresser by nature I guess...heh.
Me? Sarcastic? Never.
staff: administrator
#16 Old 18th Feb 2010 at 3:36 AM
Sockpuppet
#17 Old 18th Feb 2010 at 11:32 AM Last edited by Base1980 : 18th Feb 2010 at 11:47 AM.
When working with objects i always turn autosmooth on, and didn't have any problems with it.
It will create the diffrences(edges/seams) that are wanted on a object.
I do not understand how the tab smoothing groups works but when i want specific areas smoothen(no edges/seams) i turn autosmooth off and use Demon's alligne normals on those.

Autosmooth on with curvy shapes(body's and such) will result in ugly seams were you dont want them, maybe thats why you think it causes problems?
When you tick autosmooth on nothing will happen untill you import the mesh again.
If you want imidiate results select your object, mirror it and mirror it back.
Sometimes when opening a mesh in MS the mesh is up side down while it isn't ingame, this can screw up the normals bad.
You best then rotate/move the object in the same position as in the game, use autosmooth on it, mirror it one time and back to apply the new normals, turn autosmooth off and rotate it back to the original position.

zooming is indeed the ''fit selection'' button and you prolly have to zoom it 2 or 3 times.
When done hit the reset button to go back.
Alchemist
Original Poster
#18 Old 18th Feb 2010 at 12:03 PM
Thank you both for information on how to zoom in the TCE. This is great ...who knew? All this time I've been doing my work in the TCE with my nose up against the screen struggling to see...lol.

Base, I've gotten the impression from other threads here that using Autosmooth can cause problems with an object's normals and that the better thing to do is use the smoothing groups thing. I've never had too many problems with Autosmooth but on some objects it *does* create issues.

I've been able to use Demon's plugin well enough but I still haven't been able to figure out the smoothing groups. I need to get time to just browse through the info thing that MS has and look around the 'net for more info on that.
Sockpuppet
#19 Old 18th Feb 2010 at 3:09 PM
I remember why autosmooth can screw up things, its when meshgroups have duplicated reversed layers, for like glass and inside textures.
Those duplicated layers are often grouped back with the original and you have to seperate those first wich can be a pain...
When you have seperated them move the duplicated layer slightly on the uvmap to avoid further issues.( if i remember correct)
Alchemist
Original Poster
#20 Old 20th Feb 2010 at 2:02 AM
The thing I've had problems with mostly is the EA bed mattress. I've still not figured out a way to fix the crease in it. If I don't use Autosmooth I get other problems but the Autosmooth makes a crease in the fabric of the sheet. I haven't tried Demon's tool on it yet since I've pretty much got beds on the back-burner right now...maybe I should give that a try and see what happens.
Lab Assistant
#21 Old 1st Mar 2010 at 9:14 PM
Quote: Originally posted by orangemittens
1. If the parts you want to map are in a single group already you can't regroup them to get them to be separate. So in this case, the solution you recommend won't work.


I know I'm late to this thread, and OM, perhaps I'm not understanding what you mean, but selecting a face or faces in MS and hitting regroup will make the selected faces into a new group no matter whether the faces were originally part of one group or many.

But, odds are you're probably talking about something else.
Alchemist
Original Poster
#22 Old 1st Mar 2010 at 10:03 PM
Ooh...me bad. That isn't what I meant but I stated what I did mean so poorly that's how it came across...sorry about that.

What I meant to say is that I'm using the method I describe above, as I said, when I'm working on an object where it isn't possible to easily (or at all) select the part of a complex object I want to separate from the rest, without grabbing other parts or missing parts of the one I want, using the main four screens in MS.

When I have an object like that, if the parts I want to separate are mapped to a different area of the map, separating them becomes very easy. If the mesh were a simple one the regroup method would be easy...but if the mesh is complex the regroup method won't work very well and certainly not as well as utilizing the map in cases where parts are on different areas of that map. Somehow this same topic came up in Claeric's thread about a shirt collar and I posted some pictures of what I mean there. It's tough to talk about and more easily illustrated.

Again, I'm perfectly open to the possibility that the way I do it isn't the best or fastest and, indeed, if someone could teach me a better one I'd be grateful for the help.
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