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Instructor
Original Poster
#1 Old 27th Jul 2009 at 7:42 PM
Default Causes of Homosexuality
This is a spinoff of the PETA thread. Do you believe homsexuality is a choice, caused by genetics, or something else?

Here are the relevant posts from the PETA thread:
Quote: Originally posted by JeNNacide
Being vegan is a choice of lifestyle, as it being gay. And to each their own, all consequences and advantages included.

Quote: Originally posted by henry-james
I don't want to be totally off topic, and feel free to PM if you disagree... but... did you really just relate a person's choice in what types of food they eat to their sexual orientation? Those two things are nothing alike. Spending a bit more on organic foods/soy based foods/etc. is a choice. Living a life often filled with secrets, shame, and having your face bashed in by fanatics is not. I've seen enough gay friends dead or in the hospital to know no one would choose that, thanks.

Quote: Originally posted by Neil__
Off topic too but I have to chuck in my two pence worth.

@henry-james,
II think that was exactly what was said.

@JeNNacide
Personally I believe that anybody who thinks being gay is a choice must be attracted to the same sex.
It's only when something is an option to you that it becomes a choice.

I don't chose to be straight, I just am.
There is no choise for me as I'm not even slightly attracted to men.

Quote: Originally posted by Wild Missingno
This is probably worthy of a topic of its own, but as far as the subject of "gay lifestyle as choice" goes, I would argue that even the view of homosexuality as a mental illness is more progressive and reasonable (disclaimer: I do not believe this). At least anyone who takes that view acknowledges that homosexuality is not a choice, or at least not a choice any sane person would make (not sure what the diagnostic criteria used to be).

Quote: Originally posted by Neil__
You make a very good point with the mental illness analogy, still an odd attitude for someone to have but a lot more understandable than a blanket denial of sexual orientation.

Quote: Originally posted by Wild Missingno
I wouldn't say odd's the right word, considering it was only removed from the DSM with the publication of the DSM-IV in 1994. Wrong and outdated, though, I would definitely agree with.

Quote: Originally posted by Neil__
1994, omg, that has surprised me.
I would agree with those words too, others spring to mind but there not half as polite.


As for my own opinion, I believe it's quite clear what I think of the view of homosexuality as either a choice or a mental illness. After all, for it to be a mental illness, it would have to reduce the functioning level of the gay person in some way, which it doesn't. I personally believe that homosexuality is caused by a mix of genetic and environmental factors. In identical twins, if one twin is homosexual, the other twin has about a 52% chance of being gay, too. As for why it's not 100%, do bear in mind that things like schizophrenia*, handedness*, and autism* all work in similar ways, with a high but not 100% chance of identical twins having the same thing. Environment probably does play some role, though, considering that an adopted sibling of a gay person also has a higher-than-normal chance of being gay as well.

*I'm not saying any of these things are otherwise comparable to each other or to homosexuality.
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Theorist
#2 Old 27th Jul 2009 at 8:09 PM
I don't think it matters, because it's not anyone's business. You don't worry about the possible causes for why one person likes peanut butter sandwiches and another doesn't either.
Forum Resident
#3 Old 27th Jul 2009 at 8:29 PM
Quote: Originally posted by RiBlan
ON TOPIC: Homosexuality is (IMO) a choice. I'm straight, but I've known people who are gay. They just don't like the other sex, so I think it's a choice. There's nothing that causes it, it's just personal preference.
Wait, if you consider it a choice, does it mean you could make yourself be sexually attracted to the same sex if you felt like it? Because I sure know I couldn't bring myself to it. The thought of myself having anything intimate with another man is anything but arousing to me, and I couldn't make it otherwise if I tried. In my eyes, for pragmatic reasons, it'd be more effective for me to be bisexual (twice the dating base!)... save for the fact that I feel no attraction whatsoever for other men.
Are you different? If you can get yourself to feel attraction for people of both sexes, it doesn't make you heterosexual to me, but bisexual.
Instructor
Original Poster
#4 Old 27th Jul 2009 at 8:29 PM
Quote: Originally posted by RiBlan
ON TOPIC: Homosexuality is (IMO) a choice. I'm straight, but I've known people who are gay. They just don't like the other sex, so I think it's a choice. There's nothing that causes it, it's just personal preference.

Preference really isn't the same thing as choice. I dislike tomatoes and prefer not to eat them. I really can't choose to like them when the texture makes me gag.
Banned
#5 Old 27th Jul 2009 at 8:34 PM
For those that believe homosexuality is a choice, would you agree that heterosexuality is a choice as well?

I personally believe that I was born this way, I didn't choose to be this way. Why would I choose to be discriminated against? Harassed?
Forum Resident
#6 Old 27th Jul 2009 at 8:45 PM
Also on the topic of homosexuality, I've also been wondering why some people call homosexuality a lifestyle. Consider:

The student lifestyle: eating badly (fast food, pasta, pre-prepared stuff), living in small places, partying sort of often, staying up late at night, spending most of their days at university, usually having a part-time job.
The "rich" lifestyle: eating expensive food, having someone else do housework, living in a richly decorated house, going on vacation to remote places and to holiday clubs, driving expensive cars.
The goth lifestyle: going to goth clubs, listening to goth music, wearing goth jewelry...

The homosexual lifestyle: banging people of the same sex?
I sure believe it takes more than one thing to define a lifestyle.
Scholar
#7 Old 27th Jul 2009 at 8:45 PM
I think that, for those who are truly homosexual, it is not a choice, but I've seen enough kids at my high school who think it's cool to be gay that I know there are some who choose to be "gay". I think they are probably the kind of people who muddle the argument in the first place, because for some reason it is so hip to be gay that lots of kids say they are.
Forum Resident
#8 Old 27th Jul 2009 at 8:48 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Oaktree
I think that, for those who are truly homosexual, it is not a choice, but I've seen enough kids at my high school who think it's cool to be gay that I know there are some who choose to be "gay". I think they are probably the kind of people who muddle the argument in the first place, because for some reason it is so hip to be gay that lots of kids say they are.
See also "fauxsexual".
Instructor
Original Poster
#9 Old 27th Jul 2009 at 9:00 PM
Quote: Originally posted by The_French_Sim
Also on the topic of homosexuality, I've also been wondering why some people call homosexuality a lifestyle. Consider:

The student lifestyle: eating badly (fast food, pasta, pre-prepared stuff), living in small places, partying sort of often, staying up late at night, spending most of their days at university, usually having a part-time job.
The "rich" lifestyle: eating expensive food, having someone else do housework, living in a richly decorated house, going on vacation to remote places and to holiday clubs, driving expensive cars.
The goth lifestyle: going to goth clubs, listening to goth music, wearing goth jewelry...

The homosexual lifestyle: banging people of the same sex?
I sure believe it takes more than one thing to define a lifestyle.

Come on, don't you know the homosexual lifestyle includes raping little boys, converting little children away from Christianity and turning them gay, dressing like ladies (no such thing as lesbians), destroying marriage, flipping off God, and being really good at interior decorating? Sarcasm aside, it's pretty much a meaningless propaganda term.
Lab Assistant
#10 Old 27th Jul 2009 at 9:21 PM
I want to be clear, since my brother is bisexual. You do not just decide to become gay and start liking someone of the same sex. If you are truly a homosexual, you are what you are since birth. You probably find out later though about how you feel. My brother is dating a girl now but has had feelings for guys. It is against our religion to date someone of the opposite sex though. (No hints there, its just what we ourselves believe.)

I agree with Oaktree though. Many of the guys in my school ACT gay. They think it is funny. They slap each others butts and make suggestive remarks but you know they aren't gay. They choose to act like that but they don't really feel that way.

Scientists/geneticists have confirmed that being a homosexual has something to do with your hormones since birth. (I am not really a scientific person so bear with me.) You cannot chose to be gay one day and then straight the other, honestly though.

Oh and my brother does love interior decorating. And I know you were joking but a lot of interior designers aren't gay. That would be the fashion designers.

"This is night, Diddykins. That's what we call it when it goes all dark like this."

::::Participating Currently In Picture Perfect: Cycle 2::::
Field Researcher
#11 Old 27th Jul 2009 at 10:22 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Safyre420
For those that believe homosexuality is a choice, would you agree that heterosexuality is a choice as well?

I personally believe that I was born this way, I didn't choose to be this way. Why would I choose to be discriminated against? Harassed?


Like I posted in the other thread, I don't choose to be straight; I was just born this way. The same goes for gay and bisexual people.

It's only society’s intolerance that causes any problems with sexual preferences.
I also believe that religion has a lot to do with the belief that being gay is a choice.

How can it be a sin if God also created gay people, as it is a sin, it has to be a choice, right?
WRONG.
Forum Resident
#12 Old 27th Jul 2009 at 10:45 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Neil__
How can it be a sin if God also created gay people, as it is a sin, it has to be a choice, right?
WRONG.
The other option would be, of course, God doing it for the lulz.

Theorist
#13 Old 27th Jul 2009 at 10:55 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Neil__
How can it be a sin if God also created gay people, as it is a sin, it has to be a choice, right?
WRONG.


Following that logic, God also created rapists and pedophiles too, so those people must be perfectly okay.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obama on ABC's This Week, discussing Obamacare
What it's saying is, is that we're not going to have other people carrying your burdens for you anymore
umm...Isn't having other people carry your medical burden exactly what national health care is?
Field Researcher
#14 Old 27th Jul 2009 at 11:20 PM
Quote: Originally posted by davious
Following that logic, God also created rapists and pedophiles too, so those people must be perfectly okay.

RUBBISH.
Rapists and paedophiles arent ok, They are criminals.
Homosexuality isn't a crime. and it isn't a choice either.

Religions refuse to accept that homosexuality is natural as it would prove their beliefs about it being a sin wrong and as we know they very rarely admit things like that.
So religions will stick to their incorrect views come what may.
Forum Resident
#15 Old 27th Jul 2009 at 11:21 PM
Quote: Originally posted by davious
Following that logic, God also created rapists and pedophiles too, so those people must be perfectly okay.
Only, rapists and paedophiles harm people. Homosexuals don't harm anybody.
Banned
#16 Old 27th Jul 2009 at 11:26 PM
well the bible did state that God created EVERYTHING(which includes rapists and pedophiles) so God is to blame for everything wrong with the world and universe since it created EVERYTHING. And continuing with that logic, Nothing is a choice since God created EVERYTHING and apparently knows everything as well.
Field Researcher
#17 Old 27th Jul 2009 at 11:28 PM
Quote: Originally posted by The_French_Sim
The other option would be, of course, God doing it for the lulz.



I did think of that but i didn't want to call God a hypocrite and a sadist. (Not that I'm religious)

Quote: Originally posted by Safyre420
well the bible did state that God created EVERYTHING(which includes rapists and pedophiles) so God is to blame for everything wrong with the world and universe since it created EVERYTHING. And continuing with that logic, Nothing is a choice since God created EVERYTHING and apparently knows everything as well.


Another load of garbage

Didn't God also created free will? People chose to commit crime
You will say therefore people chose to be gay.
This assumes the fallacy that it is a choice which it isn’t.
Banned
#18 Old 27th Jul 2009 at 11:28 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Neil__
I did think of that but i didn't want to call God a hypocrite and a sadist. (Not that I'm religious)


but according to the bible God is a hypocrite and a sadist.
Lab Assistant
#19 Old 27th Jul 2009 at 11:35 PM
i think its genetic, but there are ex-gays o.o
Field Researcher
#20 Old 27th Jul 2009 at 11:37 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Safyre420
but according to the bible God is a hypocrite and a sadist.

Being gay is natural and unavoidable.
therefore, God created Homosexuality.
God made homosexuality a sin punishable by burning in hell.

Hmmmm, see your point.

Quote: Originally posted by strangeguy823
i think its genetic, but there are ex-gays o.o

No such thing as Ex Gays.

There are Bisexuals who chose to be with the opposite sex after trying same sex relationships and Gays who force themselves to be with the opposite sex against their nature.
The later is usualy due to religion again but can also be forced by bigotry and hate.
Banned
#21 Old 27th Jul 2009 at 11:39 PM
Quote: Originally posted by strangeguy823
i think its genetic, but there are ex-gays o.o


"ex-gays" are non-existant, for there to be "ex-gays" homosexuality would HAVE to be a choice, it is not a choice bisexuality however would be a choice(being that they can choose to be straight or gay).
Forum Resident
#22 Old 27th Jul 2009 at 11:41 PM
Quote: Originally posted by strangeguy823
i think its genetic, but there are ex-gays o.o

I'd call ex-gays either bisexuals who decided to give up their relationships with the same sex, or poor fellows who frustrate themselves, deluding themselves in believing they are heteros to appease whoever is telling them homosexuality is wrong.

I reiterate: assuming you're heterosexual, would you be able to become an "ex-straight" if you wanted it hard enough
, or would it be basically deluding yourself into thinking you're sexually attracted to the same sex?
Scholar
#23 Old 27th Jul 2009 at 11:44 PM
Even though I think it is natural to be homosexual, I don't think it is genetic. Or if it is, it is not confined to a very specific section of genes like some people would have you believe. Being gay is much more complex than say having curly hair, or having blue eyes. It is more a matter of personality, and I think personality is only partially innate. There is some amount of environmental input that molds a personality, and I think the same thing goes for homosexuality. I would say that homosexuality comes from certain personality types being exposed to certain elements in their environment as they mentally develop.
Lab Assistant
#24 Old 27th Jul 2009 at 11:45 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Safyre420
"ex-gays" are non-existant, for there to be "ex-gays" homosexuality would HAVE to be a choice, it is not a choice bisexuality however would be a choice(being that they can choose to be straight or gay).


click here if u do not believe me
Banned
#25 Old 27th Jul 2009 at 11:46 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Neil__
Another load of garbage

Didn't God also created free will? People chose to commit crime
You will say therefore people chose to be gay.
This assumes the fallacy that it is a choice which it isn’t.


If God created everything, God in fact created sin. God is supposedly all knowing, what this means is that no matter what you do God already knows what you're going to do meaning God already knows if you're going to sin and you are powerless to stop it.

There are SOME people whom choose to be gay, they would however be more bisexual than gay or straight.
 
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