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Theme Seasons and Celebrations - posted on 1st Oct 2017 at 12:52 PM
Replies: 82 (Who?), Viewed: 5431 times.
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Forum Resident
Original Poster
#76 Old 26th Apr 2017 at 2:29 AM
Update: So all my store content is now in and I've tested it with more builds and so far its all good. The only thing I've noticed so far is that the saved games that were saved while this was happening seems to be messed up some how. They don't exit. Everything else is fine, they run fine, save fine, build fine just doesn't exit. Most of them were just build saves but I do have 2 games that I can't really just delete and start over so I will probably just deal with it with those 2. Since its only with those 2 and not with any new saves I will say what ever it was before is what caused that and I will just have to wait it out till that save is done and I can delete it. I am now going to move on to adding all my Create a Sim CC and then to my mods. May take a day or two break from building though, lol, getting a little burned out. After that I will take a look at changing the permission on my computer cause I really want that gone and then I will update here on it.
Mad Poster
#77 Old 26th Apr 2017 at 5:31 AM
Keep testing it step by step.

Nitromon is a type of Pokemon encountered in the Pokemon Nitrome Version series.

There. Mystery solved.
In the Arena
staff: retired moderator
#78 Old 26th Apr 2017 at 3:03 PM
OMG! 4 pages of threads and no one mentions the cause may be the underspec'd GPU? That 5450 only has a 64mb bus width. I have seen, since 2004 on TS2, forum threads with lots of crashing reports with GPUs on lesser than the 128mb minimum Sims games require.
Especially for a game patched all the way to 1.69 with all those packs installed.

I can't seem to load the simswiki page, but I bet that GPU model is either all REDs or are on YELLOWs for the EPs except of the first couple or perhaps just the base game unpatched.
Quote:
128 MB Video Card with support for Pixel Shader 2.0
is how the EA pages word it, actually. So, you don't need to take my word for it.

A 750w PSU is also overkill in terms of power draw and money spent for that calibre of GPU.
No matter how beefed up the rest of the box is, if one component is weak, that proves to be the bottleneck and the weakest link.

If the 750w PSU is to power an upgraded model GPU, sorry I may have missed that info.
Top Secret Researcher
#79 Old 26th Apr 2017 at 5:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellacharmed
OMG! 4 pages of threads and no one mentions the cause may be the underspec'd GPU? That 5450 only has a 64mb bus width. I have seen, since 2004 on TS2, forum threads with lots of crashing reports with GPUs on lesser than the 128mb minimum Sims games require.
Especially for a game patched all the way to 1.69 with all those packs installed.

I can't seem to load the simswiki page, but I bet that GPU model is either all REDs or are on YELLOWs for the EPs except of the first couple or perhaps just the base game unpatched.
is how the EA pages word it, actually. So, you don't need to take my word for it.

I mentioned the problems noted with those particular cards in several of the AMD Radeon series back near in the beginning of this thread, but was misunderstood at first then the issue was dismissed. It might not be the solitary cause of the issue the OP is having but it certainly can't be helping. The number of TS3 players I've encountered having a satisfactory experience with those particular cards I can count on one hand with a few fingers left over, while most just can't keep their game running on them. The OP insisted (in the beginning anyway) that this isn't the problem and wanted to move on from there.

But I had never been able to put my finger on why the x350 and x450 cards in those series (4350, 5350, etc.) in particular perform so poorly until you explained the bus width issue, so a huge thanks for that! I've actually had players on the official forums complain that the wiki chart is wrong, it's a conspiracy, all kinds of insistence that these cards should perform well when clearly (for most players, anyway) they do not.
Mad Poster
#80 Old 27th Apr 2017 at 4:55 AM Last edited by nitromon : 3rd May 2017 at 6:40 AM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellacharmed
OMG! 4 pages of threads and no one mentions the cause may be the underspec'd GPU? That 5450 only has a 64mb bus width. I have seen, since 2004 on TS2, forum threads with lots of crashing reports with GPUs on lesser than the 128mb minimum Sims games require.

Especially for a game patched all the way to 1.69 with all those packs installed.

I can't seem to load the simswiki page, but I bet that GPU model is either all REDs or are on YELLOWs for the EPs except of the first couple or perhaps just the base game unpatched.


Well here's the thing. I don't know much about AMD cards, but just based on the info provided by the OP, she's been playing for 4 years and this problem just occurred 2 days before she posted. Granted she did make a lot of hardware changes with new RAM and a new mobo, which could affect the GPU in some way, I suppose. But otherwise, it is the same GPU she has been using for 4 years.

The 2nd thing is with that wiki. I'm not going to dispute the fact that it took a lot of work for people to come up with that wikipage. However, that page is NOT at all objective. It is subjective. Meaning it only gives you "yes, maybe, no" based on the testers own personal preference of gameplay. It doesn't actually provide any data.

I know for a fact and I've tested it and posted my result for Intel HD 4000 that it is a BIG yes across all expansions. Yet from the wiki it gave 2 yes, 6 maybes, and 3 nos. Intel HD 4000 can provide a smooth 18-20 fps gameplay on FULL graphics with a 3rd generation i7. That's a yes for me across all expansions.

I also have ran the game on the Intel Extreme / GMA 8xx /9xx series. I ran it for years all the way to Island Paradise EP before upgrading. It ran just fine, never had crash issues, etc... It ran really slow, providing only about 5 fps maybe. However, that's not solely a GPU issue, I was running on a single core Celeron with 1.25GB of RAM. On the wiki, this GPU is a solid "no" all the way across. That again is not accurate. It should be a "yes" all the way across. It ran, it was stable, it is a yes.

Just looked it up, "GeForce GTX 650" have 2 maybes? That's just BS. I have a GT 650m (GDDR5) and it runs beautifully with all expansions. (well, I don't have showtime and supernatural) I run it on full graphics and can get 60 fps.

As far as Nvidia cards go, anything from a generation 3 level 2 (320) or above should be sufficient. I think whoever did the testing in the wiki (or maybe they didn't even do the testing, they just did theoretical) didn't factor in other areas of performance such as CPU, HDD, etc... Sims 3 is actually not at all that GPU demanding. Much of the FPS loss comes from HDD caching or even the CPU. Sims 4 is actually much more GPU demanding.

Anyways, I have absolutely no idea left on what is causing the OP's crashing tbh. It could still be software... but if it is hardware, I agree the GPU is high on the list.

Nitromon is a type of Pokemon encountered in the Pokemon Nitrome Version series.

There. Mystery solved.
In the Arena
staff: retired moderator
#81 Old 27th Apr 2017 at 3:59 PM
Do you think I surveyed thousands of Simmers to come up with that gpu wiki page?

I only relied on facts - the specs that were available at that time. And the trend of computer makers to match weak GPUs with weak CPUs and small amounts of RAMS. Unlike now where you can get an i7 with an onboard graphics and 16GB of RAM. Which is why that Wikipage is useless (and no longer being updated) with the current (2017) hardware combo trend and the Intel Iris' graphics performance.
At the time that wiki page was compiled, history and experience tells me that the probablility of a weak and underspec'd GPU to also have a weak and underspec'd CPU and less then the reccommended amount of RAM is very very very(!) high and thus equates to "not a good Simming experience".

You obviously have more patience than I do, @nitromon, since a gameplay with 5fps is "YES" in your book.
I did run Base game on a single core before I upgraded my CPU - it took 45 minutes to load from the time I double-click the icon until I could make the screen respond to my mouse-click. I term a "YES" as an enjoyable, stress-free & smooth gaming experience from double-click to the Save & Quit and all the points in between, not a frustrating, blood-pressure inducing, pull-out-my-hair, gauge-out-my-eyes nightmare, thank you very much.

The fact of OP only experiencing this crashing issue now must be taken in context of, (in the years of Simming since this computer was assembled),
1. historically how many hours of Sims play in a day, week, month since the computer was brought home?
2. how many of those hours of Sims 2, TS3, vs TS4? no crashing in TS2, TS4? other games?
3. Save file: how long (in terms of Sims generations, Simdays) is this save? What is the filesize? so, obvisouly a new game on new User folders does not result in any crashing? or, a new game based on this world with the same User folders with all the CC intact - no crash in Build/Buy mode? no other save file shows this crashing behavior, either on the same world or different worlds? or, are all Saves based on this same world also crashing? was this gameplay last Saved cleanly, before all the crashing happened?
4. hardware: how dusty is it inside the chassis? this is a desktop, right? and temps are all reporting normal?
5. gameplay: each gaming session lasts how long before it crash, if Build/Buy mode is never entered? or it can be Save and Quit as long as Build/Buy mode is not triggered?
6. crashing point: always at the same build/buy catalog? on any Lot? on any Household? can enter CAS?
7. have run the save file thru one of those tools to condense the size or clean up the thumbnails, etc? I think it was by Kuree over at Simlogical IIRC

Some of these qns may have been covered in posts upthread, I just need to have an hour to sit down and read it through for the answers. But if not, some more tips or directions on where/how to troubleshoot.

Then again, it may just be the GPU is at its EOL. As simple as that, no further investigations needed. Some processing when entering the Build/Buy mode triggers something wonky and down it goes. Electronics do die...afterall.
Forum Resident
Original Poster
#82 Old 19th May 2017 at 1:05 PM
I apologize for it being a while with no update. I took a break from building. I was rather burned out lol Anyway, before I mention my results just want to mention quick to everyone, ~THAMK YOU~ You all were very helpful and your help is greatly appreciated.

Now a small mention to Ellacharmed. Again I apologize that I hadn't responded back in a while but mentioned in my last post before yours I did say I was going to take a break from building. I did 10 builds in a matter of a couple of weeks and I really wasn't in the mood to go back and needed a break. Also you wouldn't of had to read all 4 pages to see at the end of the thread I had mentioned that all was going good again. To respond to how many hours I played the game prior to this, accarding to origin 10,000 hours. I would have to say that is plenty of time to know that my GPU was capable of running the game. I really couldn't tell you how long a day I have played before but I know it has been 5 hours or more in one day in the same save game. Sims 4 only has about 1000 hours since its not my game of choice. Also since I already had 50 plus builds uploaded on here and that isn't all of what I have, that tells me that build mode was fine as well with this GPU. Also, through the thread we went through everything, along with logging when it crashed. Was always in build/buy mode. I also had reported not far back that I could play a save game for an hour or more and it ran fine. Also, it was never asked but my saves aren't that long. I rarely play for generations. I get bored with that save after awhile. It wasn't just happening in certain worlds either or with a specific expansion. Was also mentioned that it would crash as quick as 10 min into buy mode. Also this computer actually has had multiple replacements or upgrades since I first got the game before my new MoBo and ram. Other than a few things, I am very computer savy hardware wise along with using the computer. Thank you for your response but please don't get upset because the OP hadn't responded back with any results in a while with out at least reading the last few posts from the OP.

Ok, now for my results! After all this time, I really can't say what caused the problem other than that it seems to all be ok. If you ask me, based on all the testing that was done, I would have to say something in the main base game files got corrupted. Wiping the entire game out including all downloads and store content and mods and every file and starting again seemed to take care of it. I am also back to 1.67 version which I'm thrilled about But I have gone though and tested each time I added a new expansion and tested after a set of Store content installs and mods and let me tell you that seemed like it took forever but the game ran fine. What caused this problem? I have absolutely no idea other than starting fresh with a new install and all new downloads seemed to work. Nothing in my game now is from before since I redownloaded everything just to make sure it wasn't a corrupted file. But since it still happened after I removed all expansions and extra content and was at basegame, that kinda says its the main base files. Also update on my previous 2 save games that I really couldn't restart because of challenges, those seem to be exiting fine now. I'm not sure what fixed that just all of a sudden I could exit them with no issues.

So at the time of this post I'm going to say it is fixed. The problem was base game. And a huge thank you to all who helped!
Mad Poster
#83 Old 19th May 2017 at 7:38 PM
Well hey, glad it was resolved. I apologize that we couldn't be much more help to you as your situation really is unique and very perplexing. Thanks for reporting back too, most people probably don't think we care to know if a problem is fixed, but we do. Everything is for knowledge base and what we learn here from your experience will help us help others in the future with similar issues.

Happy Simming!

Nitromon is a type of Pokemon encountered in the Pokemon Nitrome Version series.

There. Mystery solved.
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