I didn't say that it was the same thing. I used that story as an example. People we may think are "normal" might be going home and abusing their kids.

But I don't like acting in violence in general, especially in relation to children.

Do you have any older siblings? Have you ever roughoused/played around roughly? Is giving a child a slap on the but really that damaging?

I think there is a great distinction between spanking for correction and spanking in violence and anger. There is a great distinction between a spanking for correcting bad behaviour and abuse. No one even wants to spank their child if they are a loving parent, but they do so because to not do it is to raise rebellious children that noone wants to be around. I feel for those who have been abused at the hands of frustrated or just plain bad parents, but you cant throw the baby out with the bath water. For ex; the prison system and judicial system. We have corrupt judges. Innocent people get convicted and maybe even have gone to the electric chair unfairly. People go to prison and come out worse then when they went in. My tax dollars and yours are paying to take care of criminals. Many get paid to be in the jail systems. I found out in my home town that those incarcerated at the local level are getting a small daily wage to be there that they dont even earn. WHAT? I thought that's nuts. Here's my point although there are some real issues and things that should be changed. Look at our politicians and government lots of things that are corrupt,wrong and are in need of change. Still yet we have the greatest nation on earth with people sneaking over our borders on a daily basis for job opportunities,money,democracy, and freedom. I'll get to it do we throw the baby out with the bath water(no). Do we do away with the whole prison system because of some messed up issues(no). We need prisons. Do we do away with disciplining children with the rod of correction when rebellion is involved because of some who take it to extremes(no). Balance is key. This is the answer. You cant do away with spanking altogether cuz some have misused their parental rights. That is extremist thinking. Just like beating and whipping the tar out of kids is extremist thinking. You cant do away with the whole judicial system cuz there are holes in the system that is extremist thinking. You cant do away with government and democracy because of the many flaws that is extremist thinking. Balance is the key. Balance the correction with love,training,explanations,love,love,love

I somewhat agree with BigBad. Me, I'll probably spank my hypothetical kids. I won't do it out of anger or frustration, but because they're misbehaving and other methods don't work. For me, spanking is to children what jail is to adults: a bad consequence for a bad action. When my brother and I got baby powder all over the floor, my mom could have spanked us. She said she was so angry that it could have easily crossed the line to abuse. She didn't. Instead she took the picture, and now we've got this really cute reminder of that time where we pissed her off to no end. We were later punished, but I don't remember how (I was really young). This is what spanking is about: having self control.

And for all the educators, I can understand your non-spanking stance. In the classroom, you don't really have a choice, and it forces you to come up with creative ways to punish the children. Just out of curiosity, though, when a demon of a child comes in your room, how do you handle it? I mean, this kid's just a complete terror: tearing stuff up, harassing the other children...stuff like that?

Well, DarkestBlu, for educators that's a fairly easy answer... you send the kid to the principal's office and have the principal deal with it; if it's bad enough the kid will be sent home where hopefully s/he'll be spanked (although if s/he's behaving that bad in school there's likely no discipline happening at home, but at least it isn't the teacher's problem anymore). That does bring up a separate issue, though: what if the kid refuses to go? In the US, if an educator physically lays a hand on one of their students (even to hug them), they risk being sued. I feel that's an example of what Brat's talking about, throwing the baby out with the bathwater, to not allow teachers to physically handle/touch their students because a select few have done bad things to their students by handling them. It's the same with spanking, IMO. To throw out an effective form of discipline and ban it for all parents because a few have abused it is highly hypocritical, because the same can be said for almost anything- that a few will take it to bad extremes, but those few shouldn't enable the whole thing to be tossed. What about all the examples of *good* parents who've spanked their kids at appropriate instances and in appropriate ways, who've raised respectful, confident and successful children? (*raises hand* I'm one of those kids, or so I'd like to believe!)

Agreed. I was spanked and it did me good. The sit down and explain what you did wrong method is great in theory and if it works with your child then that's awesome. But what if your child doesn't understand? What about the 15 month old who wants to touch the stove? She obviously won't understand you telling her she'll burn herself but if you swat her hand away she'll get the point. When people say children (like older than 4) don't know why you're spanking them, that's crap. I always always always knew why I was being spanked. And I didn't do it anymore.

Well... my mother never spanked me to teach me anything. I used to have a fascination with the stove and fire when I was a toddler too. So my mother, after trying to explain it to me why I shouldn't touch it with no success, let it slightly hot and just left me to my own devices. I touched the stove, got a small, harmless burn that did hurt enough to teach me the lesson, and I learned it without the need of any spanking. Spanking would teach me that mom doesn't want me to touch the stove, and not why I shouldn't. Being the annoying curious child I was, a simple explanation wouldn't be enough, but she was far more creative than simply telling me I shouldn't do it and spanking me to 'prove her point'. That's quite effective for a child that won't get over it with a simple conversation. I learned that I shouldn't play with fire because it burned, not because my mother would be angry.

There are several things you can do, and some of it is specific to age. First, you have to make sure the kid entering your classroom knows the rules before they are even allowed to "run loose." Peer pressure works pretty well. Take the student up to the front of the room and have his/her classmates say the rules of the classroom. You can have a time-out corner, send him/her to a nearby teacher's classroom (where they also get a time out corner), and also send him/her to the principal's if they become too disruptive. Calling the parents usually works extremely well, so the kid knows that what they do in the classroom will make their home lives hell too. It's a lot harder when the parents are unsupportive or simply not able to be supportive.

When you finally notice the kid doing something right, even if it is small, give him/her positive feedback.


Like I said earlier, if I'm babysitting a little kid, then I just give them the bear hug and get them say what they did was wrong. Not really something I can do when I'm teaching. I also taught older kids, so the "bear hug" wouldn't really be appropriate

My parents smacked me a child. In my opinion it helped, I was a very attention craving child and I'm not suprised that they hit me, however I learnt from the mistakes, no one wants to smacked in public, Well I certainatley didnt and I learnt not to do the same thing again. Unfortunatly my mum still does hit me even though I am sixteen next year, she goes out of control sometimes and I've learnt to live with it. I just learn not to get on her bad side. If I ever have kids I don't think I would smack them, I wouldn't feel right doing it, and even if the child was acting up in public, spanking them infront of everyone would be humiliating for me and my child, and I can imagine other parents faces, I would feel like I was being shunned. Although I do agree with the dangerous things,

if a child of yours was to run across the road, surley you would smack them?

Thanks for answering my question. This is why I could never be a teacher. I'd be too tempted to spank, lol! I still hold firmly to my belief that children need to be taken out in public from the moment they're born and taught how to behave. But...that's possibly another topic altogether.

Np. Happy to enlighten

I also forgot to mention that, as a teacher, you really have to enforce/correct even the smallest of infractions (like no tapping pencils, lining up correctly in a single file, no getting out of the seat). It helps set the tone for the classroom and lets students know that if the teacher doesn't tolerate the little infractions, then there's no way in hell they'll tolerate the bigger ones.

It's possible, but I doubt it. My previous experience was with teaching inner city high schoolers. Not the easiest crowd to deal with.

I've stated this before in other debates about 'hitting'/spanking. I am against it. I understand people get frustrated but overpowering someone physically is not the way to teach and guide a child in my opinion.

I'm lucky because I have very obedient child. He has other special ed. issues but he usually listens very well and has since he was a toddler.

I don't know how I would feel with a naughty child.

We were rarely hit as children and I am glad about that.

I also think SOME people take on too much as parents. Honestly, if you can't handle more than one or two kids 'nicely' then don't have any more. Again, this is just my observation. There are wonderfully calm parents with six kids...you have to go with your temperament.

A magnet school with a 96% attendance rate and 31% gifted/talented? Then I'd definitely be able to stop that pencil tapping The trick is that the student probably wouldn't even feel like they were being disciplined. They will want to put the pencil away to please the teacher. It's possible to enforce many classroom rules and still be extremely likable. It's all in the teacher's attitude, fair execution of classroom rules/procedures, and how much they show they care for/respect the students.


And OMG @ the avg. class sizes for that school. I'm jealous. (I got stuck teaching a class of 40 freshmen!)

That seems like something really mean to do to a teacher. I don't know if rules are different or something, but putting laxatives in a teacher's coffee and throwing stinkbombs in their office definitely would have been grounds for arrest at my high school.

Also, are we talking about discipling young kids or older kids? I think there's a very different way you have to deal with them. In high school, my LEAST favorite teachers were always the ones who tried to be our friends. Usually because they were the ones not teaching the class, preferring instead to goof off with students. Of course, then they'd get mad when everyone would fail a test. You can't pick and choose what time you want to be a teacher.

Yes, but she was given something against her will. It likely would have fallen under bodily harm, or assault, or something. And as far as I'm concerned, school security guards are very much like mall cops. We had a football coach, a substitute teacher, one guy who threw parties for students, MAYBE one actual cop, and this older, balding, fat guy who was going to do absolutely NOTHING to stop anything from happeneing *sigh* I miss high school...

We had stinkbombs thrown in our school. Luckily, I was in the classroom, not in the hall. I think the student was charged with disorderly conduct or something. Nothing big, but a consequence to attempt to deter other students from behaving the same way.

The "racial demonstration" thing, however, I don't have a problem with that at all. I don't know how I would handle a racist teacher, but it would have definitely made me uncomfortable in her class.

EDIT: If the laxatives made her go, I imagine it hurt to poop for an hour straight. Makes me squirm in my seat just thinking about it

Well, it's not totally off topic. I guess it still deals with notions of discipline and older children. Although, I think spanking is an issue that comes with younger children. Unfortunately, some parents don't realize that as the child gets older, the spanking needs to happen less. I'm of the belief that if you don't have a disciplined child by the time they're in kindergarten, all hope for you is lost. You're not spanking you teenager, because teens hit back, and I would fully expect them to. Why? I see spanking as a thing for little children. By spanking your 16 year old, its kinda saying that you don't recognize them as a young adult and will still treat them like a child.

How's that for moving back on topic?

It's fairly presumptuous of you to say that about me, given your ignorance about my teaching style (and also, I presume, of the practice of teaching). I could spend more time explaining how being a control-freak teacher is important to running a good classroom, but I think we've spent enough time off topic. If you (or anyone else who is curious) cares to know more specifics, then feel free to PM and ask.


edit: think of it this way--If a teacher who has shown you nothing but respect, is generally good-natured, and entertaining asks you nicely to stop tapping your pencil, do you put it down? Even my tough-guy cholos obliged.

@Oceanborn: Spanking is against the law in Norway? I wonder how that would work. Wouldn't parents still be able to spank their children in secret without anyone knowing? After all, you can never be quite sure what goes on behind closed doors in someone's home...

No you cannot. But if a child tells someone that he/she is being spanked the parents may lose their children because of child abuse. You never know what is going on between closed doors. I have been both spanked, beaten and tormented.....

This is illegal and you could’ve gone to jail. As funny as people think putting laxatives in someone’s drink or food is, it’s very dangerous to their health especially if they have a condition that has caused liver damage.

So now you're the accomplice.

Epic fail. Show me your M.D. or D.O. degree and then get back to me.

No. You just got lucky.

Also, its just not nice and very uncomfortable for the person.

It is always possible for an individual to have an allergic reaction to any medication, and therefore it is incredibly dangerous to drug them, even if it is just a prank.

Of course, children do not share the same deductive reasoning skills as adults or even older adolescents. So I would hope the police would take age into account.

Guys, let's please stay on topic. Thanks.

I must say it worked on me! Though I was what you called a bad a*s, I never caught it for the same thing twice. I learned THAT lesson and never committed the infraction that made mom use the belt, or slipper, or extension cord, or switch (limp tree branch), or her hand, or anything else that was readily accessible. But having 4 daughters I ended up being the softy and my wife/their mother was the disciplinarian and boy did she remind me of my mother. Well, they do say when a man finds his soulmate she'll have at least one quality of his mother. I really felt sorry for my girls sometime that's the one she had. <span class="emoji-outer emoji-sizer"><span class="emoji-inner" style="background: url(chrome-extension://immhpnclomdloikkpcefncmfgjbkojmh/emoji-data/sheet_apple_32.png);background-position:75.96944770857814% 77.96709753231492%;background-size:5418.75% 5418.75%" data-codepoints="1f923"></span></span>