When I first played Sims 3, I felt oddly let down. Fast forward to today and it's easily my favorite Sim game to date. So how can I love Sims 3 now, but not back then? Basically I expected something that wasn't the Sims. I expected a complete shift in what the Sims franchise is. Once I compared Sims 3 on equal footing with Sims 2, I realized it is a vast improvement with even more possibilities. Now I'm staring down the barrel of Sims 4. It looks to be a huge pile of excrement. However.....I've been wrong before. Hell, half the people on this forum haven't liked a Sims game since the original, and the other half only like Sims 2. When someone says, "Boy Sims 3 was the worst Sims ever", I start to wonder if anything would possibly be good enough?

Not sure what my point is. I have not a single thing good to say about what I've seen of Sims 4.....but it feels like it's impossible for it to suck that much. Are we missing something through our internet rage? Best case scenario is that the Sims 4 is a promotional failure. If there is a point to the Sims 4, some redeeming value, now would be the time for them to explain exactly what that is. Example: Sims 2- 3D graphics, you can leave your lot, aging. Sims 3: Open world, story progression. Sims 4: Less stuff than the others, runs on low end machines, vague AI improvements.

What I'm saying is that both lovers and haters should have red flags flying up. Haters: It's impossible for it to be as bad as it looks. We are missing something here. Lovers: You should wonder why so much was removed. It's weird.

I'm officially getting on the fence. I began as a hater....but something just feels goofy here. It feels like I'm missing something. My guess is that the AI improvments they talk about are a little more advanced than we are expecting, and that the multitasking is bigger than we realize. That or they decided to blow one of their largest franchises out their butt for fun.

I don't think we're missing anything here. We're seeing EA at it's classic "let's just skip all the hard stuff and make a simple game". We haven't seen any gameplay videos that actually detail how we're supposed to play this game, and the CAS demo is sort of tantalizing (but boring from what I've read)..and it's less than 8 weeks away from release.

There's something very wrong with this game if EA is not all out shouting and yelling about the 'incredible, massive' wonderfulness of this game that they're releasing on September 2.

That's what we're wondering about. What else is there missing? We won't really know for sure until the release, and by that time it will be too late to wonder if we can do anything about it.

Of all the game series, this version is the most under-advertised one I've ever seen. It's like EA really doesn't want to trumpet it out, or even let it sell itself. As if they're off-handedly releasing it. "Oh, by the way, we have a new game coming out on Sept 2..called Sims 4. You might want to try it out.."

Pretty much. E.A. doesn't want to be innovative, groundbreaking, or revolutionary like other developers, they just want to play it safe and make a half-arsed game that will bring in dough so they won't starve.

Some developers make games to make an artistic statement, others do it to make a quick buck. E.A. is of the latter variant.

Anybody that has spent any amount of time within the sims community already knows that simmers are not made from a cookie cutter. Everybody plays differently while there are those that don't play at all. Instead they make mods, movies, builders, those that just like to decorate, ect...

When EA comes out and says that TS4 is for everybody, it's BS. I'm not a builder, but there is no reason for me to want builder options to be taken away. I don't spend hours decorating a room or house, but if that is what people want to do, they should have the stuff to do it with. I make sims. I haven't seen anything in this 'new game' that suggests things were added for people like myself were kept in mind. Sims are not supposed to have Sharpie eyelashes, just saying. I won't get started with the awful skin tones. People are praising EA for allowing them to make Asian sims now, however, they never seem to mention that the skintones for all those Asian sims have green undertones. Are they part martian as well?

Everybody is going to have their favorite generation of Sims and there is nothing wrong with that. This crap of EA trying to put everybody in a box is a major peeve. If you spend time just reading through the forum, you'll see what I'm talking about. It's only the people that apparently want to be in the pretty box that EA created for them are the ones yammering about how TS3 sucks, and TS1 was the worst, blah,blah,blah.

TS2 might be my favourite, but I've loved all 3 of the previous sims games. TS4 is the first one I think is utter shite. From my experience though, people tend to disregard when you say you like more than one, and just put you firmly in the camp of the one you said was your favourite, which I find odd.



Eh... I get that it's hyperbole, but this is just so inaccurate it doesn't make sense even as such, imo.

When I first heard about it I was so excited - I still am. But I am also filled with increasing trepidation. Ever since I hit preorder, it seems the internet has gone out of its way to show only the bad, less of the good, for TS4.

However, that said, I never got into TS3 and the charm of TS2 might finally(!) be wearing a little thin. I accept it won't be at its best until at least a few patches and maybe a couple of expansion packs, but it will give me plenty of new (to me) content to explore. Also if I wait until an expansion pack comes out I won't be able to afford essentially two games in one hit.

I think it will have a lot more new content for TS2 players than TS3 players, but at the same time what we've seen so far superficially resembles TS2 more, so TS3 players are put off, seeing it as a "step back"... I'm worried they've put too much emphasis and/or effort into CAS and skimped on the rest of the game.

Yeah, that worry's me too. I also agree that it's hard to imagine they forgot to explain the hook to this game. I guess in the end, I find it hard to believe that even EA would toss out a stinker like this? I've played some bad EA sequels, but this "looks" like a record in 'wuh!?' How could they possibly benefit? Of course I guess it's more like a giant air craft carrier. It was just too late to turn the ship around.

Why would EA hold back on showing us cool stuff when it obviously harms them because people are not satisfied?

Any game company will try to show their game's best sides to get as much hype as possible. So there's no reason to hope for delicious secrets once you have the game in your hand. What you see now is what you get. If you like it, buy the game. If you don't like it, don't fool yourself and hope there will be more.

^This.

I realise my tone has been very negative, but in the end my posts boil down to "I don't get this, where is the hook". I'm not against it on principle. I am genuinely waiting for someone to go "and the cool stuff, right here!"

The problem is that it's really not impossible that it's as bad as it looks. But I don't want it to be as bad as it looks. I've played both TS2 and TS3 for a long time and I genuinely do want TS4 to come out great. So, I suppose a lot of the negativity is born out of bitterness. EA obviously has the means to make an amazing game and with the Sims series investing a little effort is obviously not a risk, so why are we getting this?

I'm just saying that as long as they haven't shown us anything good, then trying to "not hate it" because it "can't be as bad as it looks" is a horrible reason. That's exactly why EA gets away with so much lazyness.

If they come out with a gamepley vid tomorrow that shows off amazing improvements, then by all means let us rejoice and be happy! =) I really want that to happen. I want TS4 to be a good game and this to just be a marketing failure. But whyyy would we give EA of all things the benefit of the doubt when this is what they have shown us until now?

If you genuinely like what you've seen of it, fine.
But if you consider what you've seen awful, then don't be in denial just because you love the series and don't want it to be awful.

I've been thinking about this a lot the past few weeks too. I was super pumped for three when it was released, but it just wasn't what I expected. I stuck with two for the most part these past few years. However, fueled by the recent sales on steam and now origin, I decided to give it a try again.

I've begun to really appreciate them as individual games with their own individual set of gameplay.

Two is wonderful for creating completely unique and interesting neighborhoods from scratch with minute detail and control. The sheer endless possibilities for community lots and shops made building your neighborhood a very challenging, but rewarding endeavor. Inherited genetics made generational gameplay fun and surprising. Wants and Fears really reflected a sim's personality and desires. However, neighborhoods can become easily corrupted without care and a lot of mods. Sims don't age unless you play them and you can't visit your neighbor's house. *directly

Three is a completely different experience. The open world allows you to meander and follow your sims as they adventure through their lives. You can make as many saves of the same neighborhood as you like and you don't have to worry about corrupting it, because you can always start a fresh new save. I love the Season's expansion's addition of Holidays and many more innovations in the various expansion packs. However, it's much more difficult to create and control your neighborhood and the sims within it. You lose wishes when you toggle between families and it's easy to miss big moments unless you play a single household per save.

I have come to really enjoy both for what they are. I'll always be more attached to two because my neighborhoods really feel like my own creations, but three feels like a great adventure.

On the other side of the coin, this is what leads to player disappointment between generations. Better is relative to the player and how they prefer to play.
I'm looking forward to four, because I really do like rotational gameplay and I really want some of the control back without having to give up visiting my neighbors and townies that age along side my sims.

I third TS3 being a letdown at first. I had built up this immense hype about it. Traits!!! CASt!!! Open world!!! Then, I got the game. Nothing could meet my impossible expectations. In the next few months, I learned to appreciate it for what it was and enjoy it. I never went back to TS2 either. Ever. And I loved TS2.

The thing is, TS2 and TS3 weren't handled like this. They gave full details of things. Showed us gameplay videos with UI. Hosted events and let players show off the games. Gave out Bodyshop en masse. There wasn't this guessing game, these "misinterpreted" Tweets, these cowardly blog posts. They weren't hiding the game because they were genuinely proud of their products. I don't feel that way with The Sims 4. I feel like they're clinching their buttcheeks and running for the bunkers to prepare themselves for the apocalypse that will be "Simtember".

Maybe we will learn to appreciate The Sims 4 one day. But why do we have to go through this again? This is the fourth time around. They've had four times to get it right. What's their excuse?

That about sums it up perfectly.

Oh, I totally agree. The more I read the worse my opinion of what this game is gonna be. Will I still buy it? Probably. Why? Cause why not? EA cannibalizing the Sims was written in the stars. I'm just stoked that they got Sims 3 out before it was blown to shit. All franchises die.

I don't really think that they have an ace up their sleeve.....I just find it odd that they would blow it so HARD! Frankly it feels as impossible as all other arguments. Even for the "Worst company in the World!" WAIT! That's it! Maybe......just maybe, EA worried they'd lose their title to Nintendo. Oh....now I get it.

I had a rather contentious discussion with one of my dearest friends last night, and she's of the opinion that once the game is released, EA will step up to the plate and make all the 'missing elements' of the usual base game components available for players.

She's of the opinion that they're working with constraints of space for downloads, etc..and that EA is planning to release it one step at a time.

I didn't want to blow it up any more than it already was, so I 'conceded' my point-but I'm still of the rock hard opinion that what we see here, and what we've read about the actual things that EA is removing from the game will stay exactly the same-that they will not be releasing any EP's with the missing content, and that it will be the worst version of the game, completely stripped down and stay that way.

I'd love to be proven wrong, but so far, I haven't. If there is any hope left for the fore-mentioned scenario to happen, it would have to be done in the release and PR. Haven't seen any rebuttals to the list posted here, yet.

Oh, I think the missing pieces will be available.... for a price. Unless the game totally bombs, there'll still be money to be made from EP, and they know most people will buy the packs replacing anything people consider to be "missing"

Some stuff will stay gone - CASt maybe, the colour palettes, a lot of other stuff, but there's too much money to be made for them NOT to try sell, e.g. pools
I bet there will a pack titled something like "holiday stuff" and it'll be full of pools and generic party items and outfits
Or it could be "family stuff" and include toddlers
That would sell FAST. Not just to people who had already bought TS4, but to people who were waiting for that to buy TS4.

I doubt they'll patch it in for free though

I only watched Sims 1 and 2 being played and never had the time, but also never really wanted, to play them myself. I may have picked up on an element of 'work' in maintaining the sims and I didn't feel like working in a game.
When I saw Sims 3 I immediately wanted to play and have gotten a lot of enjoyment from it and also learned more about my computer out of necessity. Now I don't always rely on my husband for everything.
I'm sure my complete lack of expectation for Sims 3 contributed to my ability to like it as opposed to someone who'd spent 5 years playing Sims 2. Because I did develop expectations and hopes for Sims 4 over the 5 years and, boy, were they crushed.

Thank you very much for such a thoughtful post, it does contain much room for reflection and yes, stirred up several doubts so I've been considering what you've said for several days. Have I been hating on sims 4 too much? A good question. It finally occurred to me that there was a difference (for me). Even as Sims 2 was in it's final expansion, Sims 3 never inspired any loathing nor was there reason for me to doubt that I would enjoy playing it, regardless of the info which was being disseminated by EA. Sims 3 just seemed better in all ways for my own style of gameplay. Open world, casT, better build tools, shiny new interactions, improved AI etc.

I think some things about 4 will be better. Create-a-Sim, multi-tasking, shiny new interactions and yes even the emotions could be fun. But for reasons which are not my fault (scrapping the online multi-player facebook wannabe, EA staff budget cuts) there's an awful lot of features which I personally have to give up in order to get the very few new shinies. It's not just my imagination which holds an unrealistic fear that features were cut -- from the info we are given it really does appear that EA dumbed down the game so that five year olds could play the game on big sister's out-dated computer.

But I'm not five years old and my computer is top of the line. Instead of improving the things which players complained weren't working as well as they could (story progression and routing fails in an open world), EA removed them. Instead of expanding the range of build mode tools and interactions for each life stage, EA removed them and made teenagers look indistinguishable from adults. Yet EA magically assumes I'll be as wildly enthusiastic as ever. More likely (for my anyway) it is EA's expectations which are unrealistic.

But I do still appreciate your perspective. Should I just accept that this is a different game and enjoy it for what it is? Well, that's possible in theory but in practice the price of all expansions would need to come way down because to me the franchise is no longer a Class A game. It's a facebook wannabe that I play on my cellphone. As something which costs a few dollars and amuses me for 15 minutes while I'm sitting in someone's waiting room, it appears to be a great game. Maybe my opinion will change after the reviews come out, but that seems doubtful at this point.