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world renowned whogivesafuckologist
retired moderator
Original Poster
#1 Old 18th Feb 2010 at 11:35 AM
Default Religion Thread: Christianity
Whether you're a Christian or not, you can debate all aspects of Christianity (all sects) in this thread.

Remember to be nice and courteous to your fellow debaters, and to post links to evidence that backs up your position whenever possible!
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Instructor
#2 Old 18th Feb 2010 at 11:38 AM
Oh my gawd. This will be the best thread ever. *gets popcorn*


On an on-topic note - What are people's thoughts on religion and politics? For instance, the Church having ways of getting politicians to pander to their audiences. Ive noticed it a lot recently in Australia, with things like Internet Censorship and an Amendment to the definition of Marriage (and then celebrating the date it occurred in the following year.)

Well that's what happens when you're on your own and you're alright at letting nice things go
Lab Assistant
#3 Old 18th Feb 2010 at 1:36 PM
A few statistics and where I got this source, so I can be proved wrong
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0781453.html
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/r...urch-attendance
This is just on the U.S.
Worshiper base in the U.S.
Protestant 52%, Roman Catholic 24%, Mormon 2%, Jewish 1%, Muslim 1%, other 10%, none 10%
Percent of population attending services: 44%
People who turned out to vote in 2008 for federal elections: 56.8%

Churches are strong social groups,
They teach followers to be socially active,
Most older people have some sort of faith,
Churches accumulate money and many members have money,
Politicians are always looking for money...
and even if you dislike religious groups a lot of them help the poor..
so they have a social impact.

So it is, from the dark-ages til now, even with the separation of church and state by writ, it will never be by consensus. And I am OK with that as long we steer clear from a complete theocracy...I believe those days long gone for us anyhow. I don't mind people speaking their faith and expressing it as long as I am not forced to participate.
Marriage is a religious concept..it has always been.
With censorship, of course it is an obligation to save souls so they will always fight to censor. Although I am not very religious...from some of the things I have seen on the net...a little control may not be a bad thing. Just my opinion.
Mad Poster
#4 Old 19th Feb 2010 at 3:17 PM
I am a Christian and I believe that a lot of people are in the religion business. That's right--business.

Gotta love it when pastors complain that they need more tithes to maintain the church building. First off, tithes were of agriculture in the Old Testament days, not of money. And it was to support the Levites.

Secondly, a house church is good, because you have no mortgages or utilities or maintenance. People can bring food for a potluck afterwards.
Field Researcher
#5 Old 19th Feb 2010 at 4:21 PM
I used to be a Catholic, but I am an atheist now. I don't need religion to be a good man. I feel guilty when I insult someone and try to compensate it. I do not need to say all my guilts to a man who thinks he's a mediator between me and God. This is ridiculous. I base my ideas on friendship, peace and good will. The Church institution in Poland is greedy and gives a bad example so more and more people decide to become atheists. As far as religion is concerned I think the Protestant Church is better than the Catholic one.
Mad Poster
#6 Old 19th Feb 2010 at 4:30 PM
I wouldn't be a Catholic for all the money in the world, personally. It sure seems to specialize in corruption, with pedophile priests and whatnot. (Not that other sects don't have their problems.)

You don't have to go to a priest for forgiveness--in fact you shouldn't. Only God can forgive.

Just take a look at John 3:16 (King James version), and make that your starting point.

It's a shame that these organized religions turn people away from God.
Field Researcher
#7 Old 19th Feb 2010 at 7:27 PM
I do think that sex scandals of the Catholic church were and are appalling, but corrupt people abuse power in many societal roles- Catholic priests don't hold the monopoly. The Catholic church has a lot of influence in many countries, and everyone should be concerned about this, but at the end of the day they are going to hold on to what they believe. For example, I do not think they would change their stance on birth control despite problems with STD rates. It is a complicated situation, and I can see arguments for both sides.

Personally though, there are many religions that I find more worrisome than the modern day Catholic church, despite its sometimes dark history. I find the "In your face" religious movements and tactics of some of the other branches of Christianity much more disturbing and extreme. I consistently experience a vibe of superiority emanating from so called "Christians" who seem to regard anyone who doesn't fit into their perfect mold with contempt. Wasn't Christ's message one of love and acceptance? I really don't understand it, but yet that's what I see.

I can only respect those who call themselves a Christian if they actually live their lives in acceptance, tolerance, kindness, treat other people as equals, and don't look down upon others. To me, anyone else is just a hypocrite. I hear the lip service from a lot of Christians but I don't really see it put into practice.

A good person is someone who lives this way, no matter their religion, creed, race, nationality, gender orientation or sexual preference. Treat other human beings with kindness and respect. That is the bottom line.
Alchemist
#8 Old 20th Feb 2010 at 12:00 PM
Quote: Originally posted by yadarya
I consistently experience a vibe of superiority emanating from so called "Christians" who seem to regard anyone who doesn't fit into their perfect mold with contempt.


and might i add, on occasion: pity.
i dont need pity or sympathy for my choices. i dont pity myself--why should anyone else? in fact i think i get the pity response more than the contempt. the " poor you, you stupid git, let me open your eyes for you "--as if a human could do something some supposed celestial all-powerful creature cannot.

religion itself is terribly flawed from all angles. it reeks of human nature, and i get enough of that outside of my bedroom. hell, in my own head. imho, the bits hinting at ' no, god technically did not write the bible with his own hand ' and ' all humans have free will ' is enough for me to smell a rat. im naturally suspicious, but cmon, how blind do you have to be to not see whats coming next?

Quote: Originally posted by AlexandraSpears
It's a shame that these organized religions turn people away from God.


or maybe just the idea of there being a god, no muss no fuss, doesnt sit well with some people. maybe some people dont need a shepard, because they arent sheep. maybe some of us know what we're doing, and maybe some of us really dont give a rats ass if theres people upstairs and downstairs, if theyre bothered by our partying music they can put earplugs in and go back to sleep. >_>

the only thing that really bugs me about religious people is that they try to discredit people for what they do in their lives.
example: someone is born. someone works their ass off. someone wins something big. someone ELSE comes along and says it was all because of god.
isnt that an asshole thing to do?
they just completely ignore what someone has purposely chosen to shape their lives with, as humans, as sentient beings, and toss all of the sweat and tears and blood to some invisible sky fairy what had absolutely nothing to do with it.
i forget who it was who said it, and sorry to them for not recalling, but i remember someone else said ( in the pedophile thread, i think? ) something along the lines of " thats like having your car break down, calling a mechanic to fix it, then refusing to pay him and calling the repair a miracle ".
also apologies to that person if i didnt nail the quote, but i think you get what im getting at, here. >_>

most religious people come of as this brand of obnoxious that the rest of the world looks at and finds unfavorable. isnt it only sensible that you would avoid becoming what strikes you as unappealing? you dont want to turn into that sort of person, so you look to what you think has led them to that state of being: religion.
avoid ( that ) religion. avoid turning into that person. pretty straightforward ( subliminal ) line of thought.

for me, true religion is kept within the heart and mind of oneself. it doesnt need to be broadcast, it doesnt need to be worn on ones sleeve like a fashion label. it is between oneself and ones god; nowhere in that space is there room for others. and nowhere in that space NEED there be room for others. if others are meant to form a relationship with the magical sky fairy, then they will, with or without your help.
preferably without it.
if they do not--no biggie. you still have your 'connection', and so do plenty of others. leave people alone. -_- especially me. ( i hate you all. raah. )

"The more you know, the sadder you get."~ Stephen Colbert
"I'm not going to censor myself to comfort your ignorance." ~ Jon Stewart
Versigtig, ek's nog steeds fokken giftig
Field Researcher
#9 Old 20th Feb 2010 at 6:08 PM
Quote: Originally posted by SuicidiaParasidia
and maybe some of us really dont give a rats ass if theres people upstairs and downstairs, if theyre bothered by our partying music they can put earplugs in and go back to sleep. >_>


Heh. This made me giggle.

Cait

"If a kid asks where rain comes from, I think a cute thing to tell him is ‘God is crying’. And if he asks why God is crying, another cute thing to tell him is ‘Probably because of something you did’."
- Jack Handey, Deep Thoughts
Lab Assistant
#10 Old 21st Feb 2010 at 3:32 AM
With myself, I was born into church. My father a pentecostal holiness preacher and my mother very devout. I spent the first fifteen years of my life in the church and have met all kind of "Christians. Those with a beautiful spirit and those not so lovely."

I grew up in the eye of the congregation and with the activities related to it and never new much of the secular world. It is a strange thing to live inside that bubble..comforting but somehow isolated from reality. I loved my mother dearly but as I grew into teen-hood there where constant conflicts because every question was answered by scripture. My father expected perfection...we children expected to sit in a quiet little row.

When my mother died I became very angry, how could some one so devout be taken away by disease? Why was my one of my brothers homo-sexual? Why was my father alcoholic? If we were doing the right things why was this happening?

More years and more shit and I became so angry I through all of it away.
But eventually I had to start resolving the hatred.
What did I do...
I read,
I tried to be an atheist but I couldn't...because I feel something.
I tried to be Wiccan...but something for me was missing...
I tried to return to Christianity...but it was empty for me
I studied Buddhism,
I studied other beliefs but in the end...nothing but still something.
I dumped all my learning, everything I thought wrong and right and began to sort it.

I compared it(what I had learned of various religion and faiths) all and basically for me it all of it states the same thing in a few simple rules.
Dont fuck over each other, don't take what isn't yours and value life: Nothing material will last so don't sweat your possessions. Ascend from the base animal nature.

So this is how I came to believe..because I am one that needs the little extra I suppose. But what exactly I believe is mine and personal. If I have found peace with whatever...why should you feel obligated to tell me that I am wrong? Its of no concern to you.

Seriously I have a love for what Christ taught..but I am not exclusive to wisdom and its many many sources. So many can quote me passages but they never really seem to know what they are quoting. To start a new sect"doctrine" all you need is a resentment and a collection plate and three or four scriptures to manipulate. There will be those what will follow you.

I cant really ever know the complete truth about what the ancient wise were trying to tell us because there is more than them involved at this point. The spiritual truth is a silk cloth that has been handed through a million bloodstained hands..Ill never know what that cloth originally looked like..only what somebody else wants to sell me and I have come to the conclusion that I am not buying.

I truly respect people with conviction and value, but they should also respect my view...simply put, let us agree to disagree and leave it at that. Basically an old scripture I read as a child sums it up..."continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling." If you don't believe...may it be well for you and I will never press you into a wall. If I don't believe...please don't press me into one. With that said lets go drink a beer and listen to Ozzy.
Banned
#11 Old 21st Feb 2010 at 3:51 AM
cdanon, I have to say I admire you based on what I just read. I think that a lot of people could benefit from seeing that. Some people are just born into a family that is a part of a certain religion, and they just follow along with that. They never really stop to ask themselves what they truly think. And trying to get others to believe what you believe is never right. I find it funny that people think it's being helpful when they try to push their beliefs onto others. It's like, "I don't BELIEVE IN THAT. No matter what you say, I WON'T BELIEVE IT." Some people just don't get it...

EDIT: This seems ironic...with my avatar and all...
Scholar
#12 Old 22nd Feb 2010 at 2:29 PM
I find incredible that "In God we trust" is placed on bank notes in USA. It is so revealing.

Understand Material definition-TXMT and customize the look of your objects ! This way

"The longer something exists in this world, the more wear and tear it will have."
Field Researcher
#13 Old 22nd Feb 2010 at 3:23 PM
I was walking in my city centre and about 12:00 bells from 3 nearby churches and a cathedral started ringing so loudly at the same time! Oh my gosh, I thought my ears were going to explode! Do protestant churches have bells?
Lab Assistant
#14 Old 22nd Feb 2010 at 4:32 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Wojtek0
I was walking in my city centre and about 12:00 bells from 3 nearby churches and a cathedral started ringing so loudly at the same time! Oh my gosh, I thought my ears were going to explode! Do protestant churches have bells?


Older larger churches do ..the Methodist and Baptist types in my area. Ours generally are contained in steeples..so I wouldn't imagine they are as loud as cathedral types.

I don't hear them much in my community anymore, a lot of them where electronic and played various hymnals around noon-ish. I kind of liked it myself as it was melodic and almost sounded like classical music.

I guess bells go back to when the community used the church for social functions..a warning device and a summoning device before the telephone.
Top Secret Researcher
#15 Old 22nd Feb 2010 at 7:28 PM
My exposure to organized religion was interesting at best.

Growing up in the south (Georgia) in the states, the act of going to church was literally an extension of self. I remember sitting in church and feeling so disconnected from the sermons and the people, but feeling sad because I wasn't "like" everyone else or seemed to be moved by the environment. I had all sorts of questions and found that it was "unacceptable" to ask certain questions or that often times there was no answer. What can I say...I'm the curious type who likes to make sense of the world in which I live! Eventually, church became about internalizing the message, applying it to my life and being a better person. Oh yes...and about the music. Always about the music!

After my parents divorced, my mother insisted that her children go to church, but she often didn't because she had to work on Sundays. My father (when he was around was a devout Muslim for a while)...so we went to Temple sometimes and God was Allah there and the rituals quite different. That was the way of life for a few years.

Today, both of my parents are deeply spiritual Baptist and very involved in the church...My "Daddy" is a southern minister and my mother is considered to be an "Elder" in her church. My father quotes scripture and is passionate about being Christian. At times he can be overbearing as his sense of "right" can paralyze those who are struggling with who they are spiritually. My mother is more relaxed about Christianity. While she will share when asked about her beliefs, she does not try to spoon feed you into being Christian. She is very compassionate towards others, but I find her spiritual honesty and sense of humour wonderful.

During my childhood, I attended various Christian churches Pentacostal, Baptist, Non-denominational, etc. in addition to going to the Muslim Mosque. As an adult I preferred Non-denominational churches with a diversity of races, teaching practices and that expanded beyond socio-economic boundaries. The more diverse the better. I also attended an Anglican church since leaving the states. I've also expanded my spirituality to include non-traditional and "New-Age" practices as well.

Right now...I'm stepping back from organized religion en total and defining for myself who I am spiritually. I've been far more introspective about the things that bring negativity into my life. Sad to say, I find organized religion to be at the top of that list. I have moved away from being minimalized as "religious" or "Christian" or in all honestly being someone "normal" or "socially acceptable". I prefer defining my own spirituality and embracing things that bring positivity into my life. Anything that seeks to control, limit or judge my every action is not for me. I honestly feel that spiritually, people can be and believe anything they wish and I in no way desire to have people be or feel as I do.

Spirituality is indeed a very personal thing. It would be nice if all faiths could espouse this design, but organized religion tends to promote just the opposite. For those who find solace in organized religion, that's great.

For me, my spiritual journey exists from within me foremost and outside influences are embraced as needed. I see it as me exercising my God given Free Will.

Creativity is giving the soul permission to leap beyond the boundaries of the ordinary!
~*~Stephanie~*~
Field Researcher
#16 Old 22nd Feb 2010 at 8:51 PM
My parents pretend to be Catholics, because they do not go to church. My mum goes to church a few times a year mainly during Christmas and Easter. My dad doesn't go to church at all, but claims he is Catholic. There are many people like that in Poland and this is very bad. I feel sorry for them, because they lie themselves. I always give an example of a teacher for comparison: 'You cannot be a teacher when you don't actually teach'. The same applies to Catholicism: you cannot be a Catholic when you do not go to church. Of course you can say that you believe in God, but don't agree with the institution of church, but is there any rule?

Do you feel the same way? Is going to church a strict rule in the Protestant or Orthodox church?
Undead Molten Llama
#17 Old 23rd Feb 2010 at 12:48 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Wojtek0
I was walking in my city centre and about 12:00 bells from 3 nearby churches and a cathedral started ringing so loudly at the same time! Oh my gosh, I thought my ears were going to explode! Do protestant churches have bells?


Some do, some don't. In the Middle Ages, the local church kept the time, and the bells were used mostly to let people (monks/nuns, especially) know what time it was: Matins, Lauds, Prime, Terce, Sext, Nones, Vespers, Compline. Plus, there were passing bells when someone had died and wedding bells for weddings and bells for other occasions as well. In a world before timepieces, this was necessary. Many churches (and some civic buildings) still carry on the tradition, usually ringing at 3-hour intervals between 6AM and midnight.

Quote: Originally posted by Wojtek0
Do you feel the same way? Is going to church a strict rule in the Protestant or Orthodox church?


If it is, then I am a very baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad Protestant. I haven't regularly attended church since...since...Well, since I was Catholic. But really, the purpose of the church is to have fellowship with other believers and, to some extent, to keep one accountable, both good things. My problem with them is that they are all too susceptible to human error and corruption; I prefer to stay away from them. The closest I get is Bible studies (either attending or leading) and a small home fellowship of which I am a part.

I'm mostly found on (and mostly upload to) Tumblr these days because, alas, there are only 24 hours in a day.
Muh Simblr! | An index of my downloads on Tumblr.
Top Secret Researcher
#18 Old 24th Feb 2010 at 6:10 AM Last edited by StephSim : 26th Feb 2010 at 7:20 PM.
Hmmm....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wojtek0
Do you feel the same way? Is going to church a strict rule in the Protestant or Orthodox church?


Strict rule? That alone would turn me off. Seriously, I do believe that most faiths "encourage" church attendance for a variety of reasons with the foremost being to maintain and feed that spiritual relationship.

Your question made me think of something else I've been pondering a bit since I am no longer attending the local Anglican church. I was reading an old edition of the Anglican Journal (from September last year). In general, churches (including the Catholic/Anglican Churches in the US and Canada) have been seeing a decrease in membership over the years.

I'd like to pose a just "few" questions here.


1) Do you attend church and how often?
2) If you don't go weekly, why not? If you do go weekly, why?
3) What do you see as the reason(s) church attendance is declining overall?


****************************************************************
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ...e_United_States -Scroll down to Church Attendance (includes US, UK and a few other church going demographics)
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2000...urch001223.html
http://www.anglicanjournal.com/opin...Hash=d406c2e87b
http://www.churchsociety.org/issues..._attendance.asp
http://www.associatedcontent.com/ar...endance_in.html

Creativity is giving the soul permission to leap beyond the boundaries of the ordinary!
~*~Stephanie~*~
Scholar
#19 Old 24th Feb 2010 at 10:20 PM
Quote: Originally posted by StephSim

1) Do you attend church and how often?
2) If you don't go weekly, why not? If you do go weekly, why?
3) What do you see as the reason(s) church attendance is declining overall?



1) Never

2) While I have a firm belief in a higher power, "God", I have zero belief in "the Chruch" and it's institutions.

3) Church attendance is in decline due to it's outmoded "values". The younger generations have a much wider view of what is "normal" and the norm, and don't see that reflected in church teachings. When an institution tells you that you aren't worthy and deserving, you turn from it.

Sarcasm is a body's natural defense against stupid.
Theorist
#20 Old 25th Feb 2010 at 12:09 AM
Quote: Originally posted by StephSim

1) Do you attend church and how often?
2) If you don't go weekly, why not? If you do go weekly, why?
3) What do you see as the reason(s) church attendance is declining overall?



1) Yes, occasionally.
2) My church is a 45 minute walk away. I sometimes do it in the summer, but as my parents don't attend I can't usually get a ride there unless one of my friends is going, but she works on Sundays half the year. And sometimes I believe in God and sometimes I don't.
3) Because less and less parents no longer go, children don't think about going to church so much and can't get there, so when they grow up they don't go then either. It's also not as expected anymore, people are less inclined to think they'll "go to hell" if they don't attend every Sunday all their lives.


I've tried so many different religions, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Wiccan/Paganism, Bahá'í, and no religion at all... Out of all those religions I found the nicest people were the Jews (although I didn't meet people from all those religions). There's a wonderful Jewish community near my area and they make you feel so welcome - one couple arranged for me to intern at their daughter's law firm one summer and she let me stay with her as it was pretty far from home, despite the fact that I was a 16 year old girl she'd never even met. However I always end up going back to Christianity, despite the fact that a lot of Christians can be very judgemental.

But I find some aspects of Christianity a little disturbing. I volunteered at a Bible Camp for children two summers ago, and in all honesty it was plain creepy some of the time. I helped out with the creche section, basically the babies and toddlers of parents who were volunteering with the older kids. I didn't do it because I was religious, I did it because they needed someone extra as someone had dropped out last minute. Now I loved looking after the children, but twice a day we would sing to them in a circle, even the very smallest babies. The songs were about how Jesus is their "special friend", and ideally we were supposed to take the children to the main tent where everyone would gather for mass singing. I guess my problem is those children were far too young to understand any of it! Some of them didn't want to stop playing to have to sit and listen to songs they didn't even know. The other helpers would try to make the toddlers join in with the words and actions and some of them would cry because they didn't want to. I know it's the parents' choice, but so young...!

At the same camp a minister told me that I was a "bad Christian" for not regularly attending church. I argued back, explaining that it's difficult for me to get to church on Sundays, and surely God would understand this. He said that while God was forgiving, you aren't a true Christian unless you go to church. I asked him why it isn't acceptable for me to simply pray in my own garden, God's creation according to him, and he said that that wouldn't make me part of the Christian "family". I don't think he has the right to judge me like that. He doesn't know what God, if He exists, accepts and doesn't accept. He also doesn't know how good a person I am or aren't.

However, I do think that society suffers to a certain extent by the decline in church attendence. In my history classes at school the teachers would always describe religion as means of controlling the masses with the fear that they would go to hell if they were bad people. Obviously I don't want that, but society, younger members in particular, could benefit from the morals of Christianity, or for that matter most religions. The church I attend has about three teenagers and a few parents with very small children, but mostly the congregation consists of much older people. In ten, maybe twenty years there will not be enough people for the church to keep going. Of course ideally people would be good, decent people without religion and naturally I don't think you need to be religious to be a good person.

I don't think I'll ever be entirely comfortable with Christianity though.

"Your life was a liner I voyaged in."
Undead Molten Llama
#21 Old 25th Feb 2010 at 12:28 AM
Quote: Originally posted by StephSim


1) Do you attend church and how often?
2) If you don't go weekly, why not? If you do go weekly, why?
3) What do you see as the reason(s) church attendance is declining overall?



1) Almost never. I have a tradition of going to Midnight Mass on Christmas Eve...even though I am no longer Catholic.

2) Honestly? Because I never feel welcome. My ideas/beliefs on certain subjects are too liberal for the conservatives and too conservative for the liberals. I don't generally align "properly" with any one denomination. (Although the tests on Beliefnet would have me be a Quaker. Haven't tried that. There don't seem to be any Quakers here in the Rockies...) Plus, in the evangelical churches with which I most closely align, there is often too much "pastor worship" for my likings. In addition, the more conservative choices, towards which I tend to lean, theologically, tend to cling to what I see as irrelevant issues, like for instance preaching against gay rights or obsessing over creationism. So, when I do go to church, I actually still tend to prefer a Catholic one, for all that I don't agree with much of Catholic theology anymore. I appreciated the liturgical nature and the solemnity of the Catholic Mass much more than services that tend to more resemble pep rallies.

3) I think it's because the church as an institution is largely perceived as hypocritical and intolerant and in certain cases with certain denominations it sometimes is. I know of several people amongst my friends and acquaintances who have disavowed Christianity not because they disagree with the tenets of the faith but because they don't like the church and its teachings. They seem to think that you can't be a Christian without a church. Even though I am. But whatever.

I'm mostly found on (and mostly upload to) Tumblr these days because, alas, there are only 24 hours in a day.
Muh Simblr! | An index of my downloads on Tumblr.
Lab Assistant
#22 Old 25th Feb 2010 at 2:01 AM
1) Do you attend church and how often? Very seldom now and always for someone else. An occasion that warrants my attendance.
2) If you don't go weekly, why not? If you do go weekly, why?
The thing I believe in is internal and not external so I basically carry my church inside of me. Most churches I have been to are social institutions and I myself am not very social. My fathers church always taught of end times and prophecy, another will teach against or for something..others teach prosperity as if paying tithes were a magical lamp. If die-hard believers cant agree with each other, where does it leave someone as open as I try to be? There is no place, youll find more spirituality and 'godliness' among recovering addicts and drunkards than you will find in a tent full of ministers.
3) What do you see as the reason(s) church attendance is declining overall?, Politics, sex, money, assassination of character, gossip, intolerance...all the things that make people want to run to the church is the same thing that has driven them away. Damn I sound bitter...but it is not that.
Mad Poster
#23 Old 25th Feb 2010 at 7:41 PM
1. I don't attend church at all. Last time was about 30 years ago. The only time I've stepped into a church for any occasion was a funeral for a friend.
2. I don't go weekly. I don't believe in the institution or the mantra they propagate-any of them. They're all self-serving and the majority of them are profit motivated.
3. Why is attendance declining? Who knows? Probably the fact that people are becoming smarter about trusting institutions that dictate morals. The Catholic church was famous for doing so-and at the same time abusing the very people they were entrusted to tend the souls of. Other churches are equally guilty of other sins-venality and hypocrisy to be specific.

I'm harsh because I'm fed up with the idea that church is the only place where you can get moral and spiritual uplift. Or as someone once said: "if you find God everywhere, why should he only be in a church?"
#24 Old 26th Feb 2010 at 2:57 AM
Quote: Originally posted by StephSim

1) Do you attend church and how often?
2) If you don't go weekly, why not? If you do go weekly, why?
3) What do you see as the reason(s) church attendance is declining overall?


1) I attend church once a week, sometimes even more.



2) To answer this question, I'd like to answer another question poised by FranH:

Quote: Originally posted by FranH
I'm harsh because I'm fed up with the idea that church is the only place where you can get moral and spiritual uplift. Or as someone once said: "if you find God everywhere, why should he only be in a church"


I look at moral and spiritual uplift and truth and light. I believe these things can be found everywhere in the world, and in every religion. However, not all of it is the full truth. The church I attend claims to have the full truth, and frankly I believe them. The problem with some members of my faith is they believe that only our church is right and everybody else's is wrong. That statement is flat out wrong. The other churches just don't have all of the truth.

I attend my church to obtain light and truth to help me through life.



3) Atheism is on the rise, without a doubt. This is without a doubt a contributing factor. I don't think it's because people are more "enlightened" now. Personally, I think religion is needed to keep the moral balance of society, even if it goes overboard like Catholicism did in the Middle Ages with power. This was fixed with the separation of church and state laws, even if they aren't constitutionally practiced.

I just believe there's a lot of confusion in the world right now, especially with religion, and people are having a hard time deciding where to put their faith. I think part of it is the fact that truth and light is in every religion. I think atheists are wise in recognizing this, and I think people in certain churches are wise in putting their faith in that church or another when they sincerely believe the church they belong to is right.


I guess the main message I want to convey is the fact that truth is everywhere, and I think whomever denies it is missing out on a great opportunity in life.
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#25 Old 26th Feb 2010 at 11:31 AM Last edited by urisStar : 26th Feb 2010 at 12:47 PM.
I think that people that still believe there is a God sooner or later study the bible for themselves and actually notice the conflicts between the bible and the teachings of the church.

You are not asked to follow a church, you are not asked to believe in a church or a bible, you are asked to believe in God and to follow Him. When that request becomes a conflict with what God is asking and what the church is demanding, you have to make a choice.

Organized religion depends on you being a follower of a church and tries its hardest to get you to believe that you are better than others that are also children of God; and that somehow you are special because you believe, I find that to be another form of supremacy and discrimination in its worst form. If you are going to teach that there is only one God then how could one church be better than another? How could one religion be better than another? Is God confused? Either he is one God and God of ALL or He is in need of much medication. He said he made all of mankind and yet the church would have you to believe he did not make certain people because they don’t believe like they do or homosexuals, either He made ALL or He made none.

If you study the catholic church and their many leaders you would find that they did not believe any of the things that they were teaching the layman and in fact were fearful of the people studying the bible for themselves, so much so that they had no problem committing murder. They elevated the bible above God and to this day, according to them, God no longer speak outside of what is written in the bible. It seems to me that God has become a slave to the bible and is in much need of deliverance Himself.

The reason people stop going to church is because they don’t like being lied too!

No, I don't attend church nor do I believe in organized religion, nor do I believe that the bible is “THE WORD OF GOD” as that is so limiting and besides, I know how that came about. If one is to believe that God is all powerful, seems to me, a God that is limited to one book, paper, ink and or leather/plastic binding, is only as powerful as I decides He is by my use of the book, whch could be, for good or for evil and He is powerless to do anything about it!
 
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