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Banned
Original Poster
#1 Old 13th Feb 2010 at 8:22 PM
Default Racism against whites?
This was brought up in this thread...
http://www.modthesims.info/showthre...24&goto=newpost
I thought I should probably open a new thread in the Debate Room to discuss this subject a little further.

So what do you think? I definitely think that there is a lot of racism against white people. I experience it all the time, but it's generally accepted. During class once, a girl said, "I fucking hate all the stupid white girls in here." All the teacher said was, "Hey, watch your language."

Now I think if I were to say something like, "I fucking hate all the stupid black girls in here," I would be sent down to the office and probably would be in HUGE trouble.

I know there isn't as much racism towards white people as other races, and I'm really not to offended when it happens, but it just irks me because it isn't taken seriously when it's done to white people. Racism is racism, no matter what race it's directed at. And racism is always bad and stupid, no matter who says, and who it's directed at.
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Field Researcher
#2 Old 14th Feb 2010 at 1:26 AM
Racism exist in all cultures its just whites get a bad rap,because of slavery the killing of the Indians,Japanese concentration camps.

Then the jim crow laws.
Forum Resident
#3 Old 14th Feb 2010 at 2:33 AM
Yeah, if it weren't for all the slavery and the lynchings and the church-burnings stuff, it would probably be a wash.
Scholar
#4 Old 14th Feb 2010 at 2:56 AM
Racism against whites is way overrarted. Just like christians whining they are discriminated when they are the majority. Never been to the freaking old fashioned USA, but here such thing is nonsense.


"When the moon is in the seventh house
And Jupiter aligns with Mars
Then peace will guide the planets
And love will steer the stars"
Inventor
#5 Old 14th Feb 2010 at 10:39 AM
It's completely a ridiculous concept.
Racism is when a person is discriminated against, loses personal liberties (or never had any to begin with), does not and may never have access to privileges that are preserved for the elitist jerks and all of these things are not freely given based on that person's skin color.
Instructor
#6 Old 14th Feb 2010 at 4:10 PM
This is how I view the definition of racism: "hatred or intolerance of another race or other races". So by that definition racism can be by anyone of any race towards anyone of any race.
Instructor
#7 Old 14th Feb 2010 at 4:58 PM
The modern academic definition of racism seems to be that it requires (a) hatred and (b) systematic oppression by someone who is in control of the situation.

Racism against black people in America is based on the fact that they used to be slaves here, then they were segregated, before the government finally decided to give all human beings the same rights. There are lingering effects that can properly be called racism -- hatred by white Americans towards black Americans often comes from long-standing views passed on through a family, and black Americans' higher rates of poverty come from the fact that the neighbourhoods they live in started out segregated (and underfunded by government).

Black hatred against white people is prejudice, but not racism because there are no established institutions that promote it or carry it on and that have power over white people.

The difference between prejudice and racism is a helpful one because it explains the difference between large scale power structures and smaller scale hatred. I would argue that if a white person expresses hatred of black people, that is indeed more serious than the other way around, because they have more power to take liberties away from black people.

The classic example is of white women accusing black men of crimes, and black men being hauled off to jail without a fair trial; while if a black woman accuses a white man of a crime against her nobody listens. This is a historically known pattern, not just something made up, and does still exist today although certainly not in the same numbers as it used to.
Test Subject
#8 Old 14th Feb 2010 at 5:09 PM
SimMegatera- TOP MARKS!!
Lab Assistant
#9 Old 14th Feb 2010 at 5:15 PM
Quote: Originally posted by SimMegaptera
Black hatred against white people is prejudice, but not racism because there are no established institutions that promote it or carry it on and that have power over white people.

The difference between prejudice and racism is a helpful one because it explains the difference between large scale power structures and smaller scale hatred. I would argue that if a white person expresses hatred of black people, that is indeed more serious than the other way around, because they have more power to take liberties away from black people.



I am a white African and I cannot believe what I just read! Racism is racism. How can you sugar coat one aspect of it? Hatred and intolerance of any one because of race, colour, nationality, religion, age, gender ect is UNACCEPTABLE in all shapes and forms! Catch a wake up!! People all over the world have died in the struggle to eradicate your way of thinking! If what you say is true, would hate to live where you do!!!
world renowned whogivesafuckologist
retired moderator
#10 Old 14th Feb 2010 at 5:21 PM
thetinhouse, I think you completely missed the point of SimMegaptera's post. They were making a distinction between racism (which they defined as prejudice toward an oppressed minority in a widespread and established manner that prevents that minority from getting the same opportunities as others) and prejudice (which they defined as, well, predjudice - just not liking a particular group of people). It's a difference in the attitude and the outcome - nobody was saying that it's okay or good, but there is a difference, even if the line between them can become blurred/grey, and even when the colours of the people involved and the situations are different depending on where you are in the world.
Instructor
#11 Old 14th Feb 2010 at 5:30 PM
Quote: Originally posted by SimMegaptera
I would argue that if a white person expresses hatred of black people, that is indeed more serious than the other way around, because they have more power to take liberties away from black people.


No it isn't and no they don't. People function as individuals not as a part of a massive "white people" or "black people" group. If you as a white person experience racism, you won't think 'ah it's okay, my people have all the power anyway, let them have their fun'.

Racism towards every "race" exists, of course it does. It's everyone's fault.
Lab Assistant
#12 Old 14th Feb 2010 at 5:29 PM Last edited by thetinhouse : 14th Feb 2010 at 5:39 PM.
"Black HATRED (um hatred!! not my words!!! this is strong stuff here )against white people is prejudice??? Prejudice? That kind of "prejudice" is what gets white Zimbabwean farmers murdered!! We have had 6 white farmers murdered in 6 weeks on our farms where I live ( and I dont live in Zim) and that is 'prejudice'? Blacks and whites are equal in all aspects, and until we see that then we are in for a sad time!

Believe me, racism is serious in ALL its forms! Black and white people in my country fought alongside each other, for years suffering jail, tourture and death to create equality between the races! Prejudice, racisim whatever you wish to call it is destructive no matter how it is dressed up!
Banned
Original Poster
#13 Old 14th Feb 2010 at 5:39 PM
Well, what I was thinking of when I started this thread, was where I live. Around here, it's...how shall I put this..."uncool" to be white. If you are a different race than white, you automatically are "cooler" than white people. It's very hard to explain, and probably really hard to understand if that's not something you experience where you live.
Lab Assistant
#14 Old 14th Feb 2010 at 5:47 PM
OK, well Im sorry for coming on too strong supaclova! Its not hard to believe, its just terribly sad that there is still such a great divide between black and white. I think we are just super sensitive to each others situations here. Its 'uncool' to be intolerant. (even though there will always be those on both sides who are) If we could just be who we are life would be so much simpler!
Banned
Original Poster
#15 Old 14th Feb 2010 at 5:50 PM
No, it's fine. lol That's just what you have experienced with the issue.
Instructor
#16 Old 14th Feb 2010 at 6:02 PM
@thetinhouse, I apologize if I was too specific -- I was using the American situation as an example, as it's what I'm the most familiar with. Of course the power distribution is going to be different or the other way around in different places. In America it's whites who have traditionally had the power and who still have most of it now; in other places it may be someone else. Apply the concept to your experience rather than the specifics.
Instructor
#17 Old 14th Feb 2010 at 6:19 PM
Quote: Originally posted by supaclova
Around here, it's...how shall I put this..."uncool" to be white.


I've experienced this too, for example at my high school in New York.

And this isn't exactly racism but in a way it is - when people complain that you're just too pale and need to get a tan. Since when has pale become ugly? And it's socially acceptable to refer to it as such. Whereas if I were to tell someone their skin is too dark and they should get it bleached, well... you get what I'm saying.
Lab Assistant
#18 Old 14th Feb 2010 at 6:27 PM
@ SimMegaptera I understand what you are saying, and please, there is no need to apologise.

My point was simply that any form of discrimination or difference can be potentially dangerous, and although that may not be the case where you live, here, it has cost people, both black and white, their lives. We spend our time trying to raise our children to be colour blind, in the hope that they will have a future that will be fair and equal for all.

@ jooxis...do you see how this makes you feel? Why should you be made to feel that way? We simply are who we are, and shouldnt buy into ANY form of discriminanation.
Field Researcher
#19 Old 14th Feb 2010 at 7:30 PM
Quote: Originally posted by jooxis
No it isn't and no they don't. People function as individuals not as a part of a massive "white people" or "black people" group. If you as a white person experience racism, you won't think 'ah it's okay, my people have all the power anyway, let them have their fun'.

Racism towards every "race" exists, of course it does. It's everyone's fault.


This.

SimMegaptera - You seem to be defining prejudice and discrimination, not racism.

(from Webster's dictionary

Racism
1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2 : racial prejudice or discrimination

Prejudice
1 : injury or damage resulting from some judgment or action of another in disregard of one's rights; especially : detriment to one's legal rights or claims
2 a (1) : preconceived judgment or opinion (2) : an adverse opinion or leaning formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge b : an instance of such judgment or opinion c : an irrational attitude of hostility directed against an individual, a group, a race, or their supposed characteristics

Discrimination
1 a : the act of discriminating b : the process by which two stimuli differing in some aspect are responded to differently
2 : the quality or power of finely distinguishing
3 a : the act, practice, or an instance of discriminating categorically rather than individually b : prejudiced or prejudicial outlook, action, or treatment <racial discrimination>

Cait

"If a kid asks where rain comes from, I think a cute thing to tell him is ‘God is crying’. And if he asks why God is crying, another cute thing to tell him is ‘Probably because of something you did’."
- Jack Handey, Deep Thoughts
Instructor
#20 Old 14th Feb 2010 at 9:06 PM
Then we need another word. I don't think that a white person who occasionally gets called names is experiencing the same kind of thing as a black person who has to deal with it every day of their lives. The magnitude is different. A couple of scholarships for people of colour doesn't mean it's easier for them to get into school than it is for white people -- it's compensation for the fact that it's much harder.

For every time you find someone putting you down because you're white, there are probably five things that black people experience that you haven't even thought of, which is why you think it's the same. You need to listen when people talk about their experiences, and not just assume that they're making a big deal out of nothing. Can we agree that overall, in America, it's way easier to be white than it is to be any other colour?
Field Researcher
#21 Old 14th Feb 2010 at 10:57 PM
Quote: Originally posted by supaclova
Well, what I was thinking of when I started this thread, was where I live. Around here, it's...how shall I put this..."uncool" to be white. If you are a different race than white, you automatically are "cooler" than white people. It's very hard to explain, and probably really hard to understand if that's not something you experience where you live.


That's how it is when another race is the majority especially in a school or town setting.I'm black but the school I attended and the town I live in is majority white,so the so called black culture is not common.
Field Researcher
#22 Old 15th Feb 2010 at 12:02 AM
Quote: Originally posted by SimMegaptera
Then we need another word. I don't think that a white person who occasionally gets called names is experiencing the same kind of thing as a black person who has to deal with it every day of their lives. The magnitude is different. A couple of scholarships for people of colour doesn't mean it's easier for them to get into school than it is for white people -- it's compensation for the fact that it's much harder.


Eh. It's all semantics. I don't really see a need for a special word, honestly.

Quote: Originally posted by SimMegaptera
For every time you find someone putting you down because you're white, there are probably five things that black people experience that you haven't even thought of, which is why you think it's the same. You need to listen when people talk about their experiences, and not just assume that they're making a big deal out of nothing. Can we agree that overall, in America, it's way easier to be white than it is to be any other colour?


I actually never said both experiences were the same. I simply said that both qualify as racism. Being called a hateful name versus being beaten for being whatever race a person is - both are racism, but I don't think anyone is going to try to say that they're equally as bad.

I also never assumed that people were making a big deal out of nothing so I don't get where you're coming from lecturing me. I simply agreed when it was suggested that racism wasn't only against minorities. A white person has just as much right to be offended by being called "wigger" as a black person does being called the alternative.

And no, I'm not sure that I could completely agree that white people have it that much easier. Racism still exists, yeah, but what about sexism? What about discrimination against gay people? I would argue that a straight black person would have a much easier time than a gay white person.

Discrimination sucks. Period. It doesn't matter who the victim and perpetrator are.

["Colored" scholarships and such]

Things like affirmative action and minority scholarships only cause more hate, if you ask me. I don't want a scholarship just because I'm female...and if I was a minority race, I wouldn't want to be handed money just because I was black. Affirmative action insinuates that minorities can't achieve things on their own and causes resentment all around. Scholarships should only be talent/need based.

Cait

"If a kid asks where rain comes from, I think a cute thing to tell him is ‘God is crying’. And if he asks why God is crying, another cute thing to tell him is ‘Probably because of something you did’."
- Jack Handey, Deep Thoughts
Instructor
#23 Old 15th Feb 2010 at 12:17 AM
Quote: Originally posted by girlgeek19
Things like affirmative action and minority scholarships only cause more hate, if you ask me. I don't want a scholarship just because I'm female...and if I was a minority race, I wouldn't want to be handed money just because I was black.


I think because we're not members of minority races, we shouldn't be guessing about it. Maybe that's how you'd feel -- but I'm guessing that you're not poor either, and if you were in a situation where there were fewer opportunities than there are, you might want to take a scholarship. A scholarship is not a handout, it's an investment in a person who is promising to be a good student -- whether it's your colour, sex, religion, economic status, or anything else that makes you eligible for it.
Field Researcher
#24 Old 15th Feb 2010 at 7:07 AM
Quote: Originally posted by SimMegaptera
I think because we're not members of minority races, we shouldn't be guessing about it. Maybe that's how you'd feel -- but I'm guessing that you're not poor either, and if you were in a situation where there were fewer opportunities than there are, you might want to take a scholarship. A scholarship is not a handout, it's an investment in a person who is promising to be a good student -- whether it's your colour, sex, religion, economic status, or anything else that makes you eligible for it.


First of all, as a taxpayer, I have a right to an opinion of how my tax dollars are spent.

Second of all, you don't have to be white to be against affirmative action. There are plenty of people who are members of minority races who feel the same. I also never advocated not taking money when it's offered. If it's there, by all means, take it. But getting a scholarship for something you have no control over is bull. Plain and simple.

Third of all, I am poor, actually. Don't make assumptions. I'm considered under the poverty line...just like most college students. I've been living on my own since I was legally able to and have been working my way through life. I'm not a rich white girl with parents paying for everything...quite the contrary.

There doesn't need to be affirmative action. Those poor black people you're talking about would be covered for financial aid anyway...because they're poor. If we stopped giving out money to people just because they're a member of a minority, there would be more money available to those who need it. A poor black person isn't any more entitled to funding for an education than a white person. Why should a person get money for something they have no control over? No one chooses to be black, white, female (in most cases), hispanic, gay, etc. All I'm saying is that all federal education funding should be need/talent based.

Cait

"If a kid asks where rain comes from, I think a cute thing to tell him is ‘God is crying’. And if he asks why God is crying, another cute thing to tell him is ‘Probably because of something you did’."
- Jack Handey, Deep Thoughts
Inventor
#25 Old 15th Feb 2010 at 7:25 AM
This is a subject that gets emotionally charge and most people, depending on their skin color, only retreat to their defensive mode and therefore only hear what they want to hear, and so, their responses is mostly always coincides with their skin color. Skin color is only a distraction for those who want to be distracted from the issues at hand.

No one is really listening because what is being said is not what they want to hear. I think however, that most people truly want solutions and not just another angry racial debate that does no one any good. Feelings get hurt pretty quickly and we are no better off than where we started.

I would like to offer up Tim Wise Blog as a suggestion that we read most of his content and then come back and debate his view point on the issue. In that way we can get mad at him and not at each other. He is well studied on the topic and is not invested on either side of the color scope even though his skin color happens to be white, I call him a fellow human being, family!

http://www.timwise.org/ His essays is a good starting point.

http://www.redroom.com/author/tim-wise
 
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