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Inventor
Original Poster
#1 Old 13th Dec 2018 at 2:20 PM
Default The Sims 3 Gameplay (100% Lag-Free Base Game)
I expressed in another thread that I was curious how the base game only (No EPs) would perform on modern hardware. I decided to give a try and install my Steam copy of the game (which can coexist with a disc version since they use different reg keys) and test the base game and the base game only (1.67 update). It runs flawlessly, 100% lag-free even on Ultra Speed (4).

You can see for yourself:



I have around 100 MB of Store content installed + Riverview and 4 mods: MasterController, ErrorTrap, Overwatch and Traveller.
Now I'm very curious to install some of the heavy EPs like Seasons and test how much they affect performance. I cannot express how satisfying is to play TS3 without any lag (other than a little bit in CASt when dragging styles from one object to another). I have every EP and SP and tons of CC in my main install and though I don't have terrible lag, but there's a micro lag every 8 or 10 in-game minutes. If you observe the clock in the video above, you'll see it runs at constant speed for the entirety of the video, even on ultra speed (8:53). You'll have to ignore my jerky camera movements and some dropped frames caused by OBS (which only appear in the video, gameplay was buttery-smooth).
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Inventor
Original Poster
#3 Old 13th Dec 2018 at 7:22 PM
Quote: Originally posted by nitromon
List your specs too, so we can get a more accurate assessment.

CPU: i5-4690K 3.5 Ghz
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z97X-UD3H
GPU: Gigabyte GTX 960 4 GB Windforce OC
RAM: 8 GB DDR3 RAM
Main Drive: SSD Samsung 850 EVO

Quote: Originally posted by nitromon
I've tried base game + all EP except showtime/supernatural and it runs lag free.
i7 (from 2012), Nvidia 650m, running 45-60 FPs

Don't you have micro stutter or micro lag every 10 in-game minutes? That's what happens when I run it with all EPs and SPs (stable 55-60 FPS). It's not a serious issue, but still noticeable when compared to base game only (and we'll see after I install 2 or 3 EPs). Maybe Supernatural is to blame

Quote: Originally posted by nitromon
I've tried it on Intel HD 4000 as well, it can get me 15-18 FPS (not recording) but you can tell from the video, the game is pretty much lag free as well, just slow in FPS.

http://www.modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=548106

There is lag. It's very noticeable at 0:45 when the Sim stands by the pool ladder before changing into her swimsuit. Watch my video at 14:30 when my Sims is at the public pool. Sims take a second at most to change into their swimsuits.
Inventor
Original Poster
#4 Old 13th Dec 2018 at 7:29 PM Last edited by Naus Allien : 13th Dec 2018 at 9:14 PM.
Quote: Originally posted by nitromon
2) HDD/SDD, which is the only hardware to have improved the "least" in the years past. So fast CPU means faster world simulation, the dynamic reading/loading and even the writing to the cache cannot keep up with the CPU, creating mini hiccups.

On a couple of occasions, I recommended the player to "reduce" the CPU speed (yes weird) until they find a frequency which matches their other hardware needs. A balanced performance creates the best lag free performance.


I definitely noticed an improvement when I upgraded my CPU earlier this year. AI runs flawlessly with this new CPU. It's very rare to see a Sim standing there doing nothing. I know if reducing the clock speed is a good idea. I have an SSD with read/write speeds around 450-500 MB/s last time I checked. I think my SSD is fine for my CPU, at least I don't notice many texture pop-ins, which could be seen as sign the drive is having a hard time to keep up with the CPU.
Lab Assistant
#5 Old 13th Dec 2018 at 8:50 PM
I am running the Sims 3 on a 2018 MacBook (SSD) and boy does it make a difference to my game compared to playing on my old 2010 Macbook ! Even with the expanded RAM and 7200 tpm hdd I gave it at the time.
Almost no lag is crippling my game. I only noticed a small change recently when I reintroduced some CC hair to my game (I am usually playing with all my essential mods, but minimal CC except when I'm creating particular Sims).
Inventor
Original Poster
#6 Old 13th Dec 2018 at 9:48 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Occultine
I only noticed a small change recently when I reintroduced some CC hair to my game (I am usually playing with all my essential mods, but minimal CC except when I'm creating particular Sims).


Yeah, you have to be careful with CC. Some of them have a very high polycount and that can impact performance. What's worse, some CC hair and clothes have messed up LOD (level of detail) meshes (polycount should decrease as you reduce the level of detail). If a creator used the high poly mesh for the low LOD, and that hair is given to a random Sim, your game will have to work harder to render it with high LOD at all times, even when you're nowhere near that Sim. Multiply that for 30 or 40 Sims with high LOD hair at all times and it's easy to see how the game will begin to lag. That's why I always make sure that all my creations have a low poly medium/low LOD mesh.
Mad Poster
#7 Old 13th Dec 2018 at 10:35 PM
God I forgot how boring the base game is.

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( Join my dumb Discord server if you're into the whole procrastination thing. But like, maybe tomorrow. )
Inventor
Original Poster
#8 Old 13th Dec 2018 at 10:45 PM
Quote: Originally posted by GrijzePilion
God I forgot how boring the base game is.

I mean, we've been spoiled. There's so much to do in a fully expanded Sims 3...

I think the base game is enjoyable enough on its own though. Yes, there aren't that many interesting places to go or things to do, but the game is pretty engaging anyway. It must be the open world!
I install Seasons and Generations and so far everything is still running buttery-smooth.
Inventor
Original Poster
#10 Old 14th Dec 2018 at 12:35 AM
Quote: Originally posted by nitromon
I'm not sure what recorder you are using, but the one I'm using is responsible for this (either frap or OBS), that or I just didn't set up my recorder correctly. In the actual game, there is no lag during clothes changing.


I'm using OBS now. Fraps gives better quality but videos are super heavy (I've had some of up to 60 GB for 20 minutes of gameplay). Neither causes performance hit on my game. But Fraps causes a longer texture pop-in (2-3 seconds vs half a second) for some reason. The only bad thing about OBS is that it doesn't have a variable bitrate. When I remain still videos look great, but if sudden camera movements drop frames.
Mad Poster
#11 Old 14th Dec 2018 at 12:43 PM
Fraps stresses my game more, too, but it's the only capture tool I can use seeing as OBS mangles the game window's output horribly. You know how on many TS3 players' games it looks really dark and yellowish? Well for some reason OBS does that too and there's no way around it. I've looked into various methods of color correction in Premiere, but none of them can make the game look as good as it should. Nvidia's built-in thing can't be used either because Nvidia's drivers break my game's graphics settings and won't negotiate about it. So I've had to delete them.

I may have to look into using some sort of external capture card because hey, at this rate I spend like €300 on new hardware per episode anyway. I spend a lot of money on this dumb project of mine.

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( Join my dumb Discord server if you're into the whole procrastination thing. But like, maybe tomorrow. )
Inventor
Original Poster
#12 Old 14th Dec 2018 at 3:50 PM
Quote: Originally posted by GrijzePilion
Fraps stresses my game more, too, but it's the only capture tool I can use seeing as OBS mangles the game window's output horribly. You know how on many TS3 players' games it looks really dark and yellowish? Well for some reason OBS does that too and there's no way around it.


I made a custom color correction filter to mitigate that issue. My settings are: Gamma +0.65, Contrast +0.10, Saturation +0.10, Opacity +100. You can see in the video, it's not perfect but close enough.
Space Pony
#13 Old 14th Dec 2018 at 4:50 PM
While I can't contribute, my computer is custom built in 2015. The game runs okay ... I think I've been playtesting a world I've been building. That doesn't have all the roads connected yet.
This is making me want to save up for an SSD that can actually have all my programs on. Instead of having my SSD for just my OS and a few must have (for functionality) programs. As well as go through all my custom content and sort out what I really need and don't need... as soon as my world is done. Right now I'm afraid to accidentally delete something needed for a lot to function.
Mad Poster
#14 Old 14th Dec 2018 at 5:46 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Naus Allien
I made a custom color correction filter to mitigate that issue. My settings are: Gamma +0.65, Contrast +0.10, Saturation +0.10, Opacity +100. You can see in the video, it's not perfect but close enough.

Yes, but you're losing a hell of a lot of dynamic range that you're not going to get back. Especially with my custom lighting and shaders, which depend heavily on the outer edges of the color spectrum. TS3's range is poor enough as-is and the recording takes off several stops more. I do use a shader that adapts the screen brightness to the game's environment which I believe further decreases the range.

FYI: I can't claim to fully understand HDR. All I know is that I have plenty of first-hand experiences with improved dynamic ranges and that it makes your picture objectively better-looking.

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( Join my dumb Discord server if you're into the whole procrastination thing. But like, maybe tomorrow. )
Inventor
Original Poster
#15 Old 14th Dec 2018 at 7:17 PM
Quote: Originally posted by GrijzePilion
Yes, but you're losing a hell of a lot of dynamic range that you're not going to get back. Especially with my custom lighting and shaders, which depend heavily on the outer edges of the color spectrum. TS3's range is poor enough as-is and the recording takes off several stops more. I do use a shader that adapts the screen brightness to the game's environment which I believe further decreases the range.


I guess it's a tradeoff between quality visuals and performance. For me performance is always more important. I'm willing to play a game in medium settings if it gives me better performance than high settings. I don't need the best visuals to enjoy a game, but I do need good stable 55-60 FPS. Same with video recording. I don't need the bestest visuals, but a non-intrusive video capture software that won't affect performance negatively. OBS does it for me, though I wish there was an option to record in VBR (maybe there is but I haven't been able to find it).
Space Pony
#17 Old 16th Dec 2018 at 1:22 AM
It sounds familiar, but I don't think I've heard of it. But I'd be excited to try it. A lot of the programs I use rely on my RAM and it would be nice if they could use it to the fullest instead of relying on my GPU.
I looked into it, which version would you recommend? I have a laptop and a desktop, but I use the desktop more. The laptop is also newer.
Mad Poster
#18 Old 16th Dec 2018 at 1:26 AM
Sounds interesting, but I wouldn't dive into it without having the experiences of another to rely on.

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( Join my dumb Discord server if you're into the whole procrastination thing. But like, maybe tomorrow. )
Inventor
Original Poster
#20 Old 16th Dec 2018 at 5:46 AM
I sorta have a meltdown yesterday at reddit/r/TheSims. I lost it when some people begin to slander The Sims 3 claiming it took 1 hour for them to load a savegame and it run like shit on their high end PCs that can run all modern games at ultra. One person went so far as to say he has a "machine" capable of rendering "Pixar-level shit" with "70 million of polygons" and still The Sims 3 runs like shit.

I tried my best to explain to them how computer works, that it's impossible for a PC so powerful as the one he describe not to run the game with a decent enough performance, but he kept insisting it ran like "shit." and I got really upset and I called him a liar. Then other people start calling me an idiot, elitist, that I don't have a life, etc. and it was all a big mess.

I should refrain from even trying to reason with some redditors. It seems TS4 has attracted a lot of casual players, very young and with little knowledge of computers (imagine when I asked him about his GPU, he answered "a GTX" just like that, no model, no memory, no manufacturer). I know it sounds pretty elitist to say TS4 has changed the community for the worse, but I can't help but feel this way.
Mad Poster
#21 Old 16th Dec 2018 at 10:37 AM
Some people.....can I see this thread?

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( Join my dumb Discord server if you're into the whole procrastination thing. But like, maybe tomorrow. )
Mad Poster
#22 Old 16th Dec 2018 at 11:00 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Naus Allien
I sorta have a meltdown yesterday at reddit/r/TheSims. I lost it when some people begin to slander The Sims 3 claiming it took 1 hour for them to load a savegame and it run like shit on their high end PCs that can run all modern games at ultra. One person went so far as to say he has a "machine" capable of rendering "Pixar-level shit" with "70 million of polygons" and still The Sims 3 runs like shit.

I tried my best to explain to them how computer works, that it's impossible for a PC so powerful as the one he describe not to run the game with a decent enough performance, but he kept insisting it ran like "shit." and I got really upset and I called him a liar. Then other people start calling me an idiot, elitist, that I don't have a life, etc. and it was all a big mess.

I should refrain from even trying to reason with some redditors. It seems TS4 has attracted a lot of casual players, very young and with little knowledge of computers (imagine when I asked him about his GPU, he answered "a GTX" just like that, no model, no memory, no manufacturer). I know it sounds pretty elitist to say TS4 has changed the community for the worse, but I can't help but feel this way.

I don't believe such a conversation can even happen on a modern reddit board. Maybe a long time ago, but not today. You are lying. Why are you lying so much about reddit?

Seriously though, I found the conversation and see what you mean. I don't think we can really blame TS4 for all that nonsense, but maybe it's partially the company we sometimes choose to keep? I've run into the same kind of thing while trying to be helpful on the Steam forums where TS4 isn't usually even up for discussion and a few other places, when surrounded by those who know everything about everything -- just ask them if you aren't sure and they will be happy to tell you this, if they have enough of an attention span.

The way I try to leave things now is look, TS3 is not a new game and it never was optimized well, but it still has the capacity to be very fulfilling to play and has much to offer on strong enough hardware sets though it often enough needs some help in getting there. If anyone would really like some assistance in getting it work closer to as it should on modern hardware without all the peanut gallery input from those who don't know or care what they are doing (this part can be phrased better), please come to us at [NRaas, MTS, even the EA Forums, but fill in the blank with somewhere a bit more controlled] and we would be happy to help as we have done for so many others.
Inventor
Original Poster
#23 Old 16th Dec 2018 at 3:35 PM
Quote: Originally posted by GrijzePilion
Some people.....can I see this thread?


https://www.reddit.com/r/thesims/co...he_sims_3_man/+

"Snukkems" is the one who really pissed me off.
He was either lying or trolling or I don't know:
https://www.reddit.com/r/thesims/co...s_3_man/ebv5bsu
https://www.reddit.com/r/thesims/co...s_3_man/ebv74cf
https://www.reddit.com/r/thesims/co...s_3_man/ebv7qc2
Inventor
Original Poster
#24 Old 16th Dec 2018 at 3:52 PM
Quote: Originally posted by igazor
I don't believe such a conversation can even happen on a modern reddit board. Maybe a long time ago, but not today. You are lying. Why are you lying so much about reddit?

Seriously though, I found the conversation and see what you mean. I don't think we can really blame TS4 for all that nonsense, but maybe it's partially the company we sometimes choose to keep? I've run into the same kind of thing while trying to be helpful on the Steam forums where TS4 isn't usually even up for discussion and a few other places, when surrounded by those who know everything about everything -- just ask them if you aren't sure and they will be happy to tell you this, if they have enough of an attention span.


At the risk of sounding elitist, condescending and patronizing, I blame the "casualization" of PC gaming. Mobile devices used to be for casual games in the past, but 4 or 5 years ago developers started releasing mobile-esque games for PC and turning old franchises into mobile-esque experiences. It has attracted a lot of people who are not "real" gamers and computer illiterate, but they still act like obnoxious know-it-all. I lost my cool when this guy who claimed to have a PC capable of rendering "Pixar-level-shit" but he said the game runs like "shit" and it takes an hour to get into CAS. I think he was lying or trolling, but I've had enough of people lying to make The Sims 3 look worse than it is. TS3 has its problems as we all know, but this rhetoric of being completely unplayable regardless of hardware is a hoax. I've put up with it ever since TS4 was released and developers themselves started to smear their own game, but enough is enough.
Inventor
Original Poster
#25 Old 16th Dec 2018 at 4:50 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Wojtek
My computer is powerful enough to handle the Sims 3 but I still have to deal with lags and freezes. This is really annoying and makes playing the game unentertaining. I've got Windows 10 64-bit, 16 GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 770 and a 3,20GHz CPU. My regular gameplay looks like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lx-MzxMPJ_I

It's no fun and makes me quit playing after one sim-day because it's a waste of time.


I agree, it runs really bad for you. Your PC should be able to run it with decent performance. Do you have an SSD? If not, how fast is the drive you have the game and savegames folder installed in (speed measured in RPM)? A 5400RPM HDD will bottleneck your game's performance even if you have a good CPU. Do you have mods / CC / Store content? Which ones? How much CC? Is it merged or individual packages?

For reference, this is how TS3 + all EPs and SPs + some Store content and CC ran on my PC when I had an i5 750 CPU: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cp77Z4tKxMQ
Now that I upgraded my CPU, it runs smoother.
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