Hi Hi

Ive gotten into animating these past few days following JB1s tutorial (above ^)
The Simbody.smd included with Miche's animation converter is very sharp at the edges and with it,I cant really see if the animation looks good because of how sharp it is,and with the dress part also.
I imported the Af,Am,and Cu (basenude ).5gd's into milkshape, assigned a .bmp to them then exported them as smd.
I then imported that smd back into milkshape,and set to work on the animation
I then spent HOURS on a single animation,then imported it as per the insructions in the tut.
Then only to find out that now,the sim floats a little bit in the air andthat the animation is NOT like how it was in milkshape at ALL
There was one where the kid was meant to lay on the floor,like watching TV, kicking their legs. But they float in the air.
THere was another where the sim was meant to sit on the floor,but instead it looks like they were meant to be sitting on a counter.
Is there a way to make Simbody.smd's without a screw up of animation ?

Why not just export the mesh as smd directly from simpe? It is an option you know. I do not know if milkshape's smd format actually supports multiple bone assignments - long ago milkshape was only single-boned and as such the smds it worked with also were only single bone assignment items.

As for the rest, sim animation is still in very crude stages, I believe HP worked on one and it didn't end up in game exactly how she expected, although it was close.

When I loaded my 1st practice animation into the game,it was very much like how it was in milkshape...
And if you have seen the simbody that comes with Miche's converter,its very sharp at the edges,its got the dress and all, and the parts dont move(to me they dont) as smooth as the nudebases exported from SimPe.
And it seems miche hasnt updated it in nearly 2years...:l
But when I export it from simpe,its facing the other direction in milkshape.
You know that when you load a GMDC/.5gd/whatever in milkshape,by default its 'facing you' ? When I export from SimPE as SMD, it faces the other way....I know I can turn it around, but I dont think that would make it any better....

I am not sure what tool Miche used to make the Simbody.smd base. And the software he used likely has changed since then. I do know his converter was sensitive to the bone order used.

The bone order, and the positions/rotations are the only thing that I see his converter uses the simbody.smd file for. The animations you create add data, of course, which represents the changes needed for your animation. These are what goes into the output file, but the way the animation works, you have to start with the bones in a known position, so that each keyframe will be the difference from the last position.

I did some comparisons, and the current SimPE does not export the bones in the same order as is used in his SimBody.smd file. I also did some testing with XSI Modtool, and it reorders the bones somewhat, adding a root bone.

I found that if you import the simbody.smd into MilkShape and then export it (with a new name) as a reference file (I also did not try vertex weights) that, as best I could tell, the skeleton and positions are unchanged even with the mesh edited.

Now, I am not at this time set up to test this for you, but I believe that if you backup the original simbody file, and then edit the mesh in MilkShape (try pulling one vertex way out) and make an animation, the converted animation should work just fine in the game. If that proves out, it means you (or anyone else interested) can rework the mesh itself to something more suitable to your needs.

I don't think that the UniMesh skeleton replace shortcut will work, as UniMesh, and most game mesh files, have the skeleton in a different order from the SMD file (there is flexibility in the layout allowed by the format).

<* Wes *>

Hmm, interesting. Thank you

I did notice that SimPE exports SMD's facing the opposite way when you open them in Milkshape,and its quite hard to line up the 2 meshes exactly (I imported the SMD & GMDC of the same mesh-CUbase)

Ill try out what you said, and Ill try import the Basemeshes, then line it up exactly, see if the anim works. And if it does, possibly Ill upload them for people who would like to make new animations in the future

^-^

Yes, if they work, upload them.
I am not sure why SimPE and MilkShape would create differently oriented models, nor who is right, given that the game and MilkShape itself have different coordinate systems.
A thought I had was that the latest MilkShape can use multiple bone assignments during animation, and that the newer SMD plugins for MilkShape support the weighting. I did not experiment with this change when I examined the files. But if basic mesh editing of the file works, you might be able to try this yourself by making and exporting multiple assignments.
At any rate, much of what you are doing is like breaking new ground, because the people that did a lot of this beofre have moved on to other things.
<* Wes *>

I havent had much time trying stuff out today, but what I DID do was:
Import Miche's Simbody.smd , then imported the AfNaked.5gd with unimesh. I DIDNT import the skeleton nor morphs.
I did notice thatthey were aligned exactly,to me.The neck was in the same place&everything.
So I deleted the simbody,then exported the afnaked as reference.smd.
Ive noticed that if you export as sequence,then import it back, the mesh 'isnt there' anymore
But if you export as reference then import it back,the mesh is there.
So I made a practice anim, and its quite unlike how it was in Milkshape. It was rough in MS,but nothing like in TS2.

I think it would help if the tools were updated or re-written.Its such a shame that it seems that Miche isnt updating it anymore. I dont mean to make him guilty or put pressure on him,but new anims could be a regular thing that many people could make.

So tomorrow(its 22.21pm here),Ill do what you mentioned before, import simbody then pull a vertex way out.Try a simple but smooth anim and see if that works

^-^

The SMD format is, in some ways, very different from what you are used to working with in TS2.

Using the reference export gives you approximately the same types of data as would be found in a GMDC, but, of course, arranged quite differently.

The sequence variety exports the animation, without the mesh data. So it is in many ways like a TS2 ANIM file, but again arranged quite differently.

So, when you export a sequence file, and reimport it, the mesh will usually go missing because a sequence file has that portion deleted.

I cannot say for sure, but it is very likely that when you import the body the way you describe that the bone assignments will be (nearly) all wrong. Bone assignments are carried as small values that reflect the index value (zero-based positioning) of the bone. UniMesh uses an order that is markedly different from the order used in the SimBody.smd file. So the import will likely have the assignments arranged incorrectly compared to the SimBody.smd skeleton.

<* Wes *>

Oh, and yes, a lot of us miss Miche. What could have been, was. But for the time being, this is about all we have to work with. Some of the people that did some of the previous work are still around, but seem to be involved in other things.

Last edited by wes_h : 1st Apr 2007 at 02:10 AM.

Hi Wes.
Ive done some testing,these are the results:

1:
*Import Ambase.5gd w/ Sims2UnimeshImp4.07exp1
*Animate it
*export as smd sequence
Result?
Unusual arms& didnt rotate

2.
*Import Simbody.smd try to export with S2UM4.07
*Not allowed, quaterintrams or something, the problem that Nouk had in the meshing forum

3
*Import simbody.smd
*Pulled 1 middle vertext from the dress WAY out
*Animate it
*export as sequence, WITH Vertext weights, then again WITHOUT vertext weights
*No difference between the 2 in game,so wether it actually DOES something is another question
*That seems to be the best result
The sim rotated forward like in MS, but didnt move. I probably selected the worng bone?

4.
Import SB.smd
Import AMBaseUnimeshExp1.5gd , only ticked triangles,
deleted SB, mesh legs would move when arm was rotated
SCRAPPED

5.
Import SB.smd-only import bones&skeleton
Import same AmBase^^^.5gd
Only ticked triangles&rename bones
Same problem as above
SCRAPPED

6.
Import SB.smd
Import BaseWomand.smd (all 3 boxes ticked for both)
Delete SB
Sim didnt move forward. the hand 'grips' and doesnt rotate

7.
Import Ambase.smd -no triangle, so its mesh less
make anim
Result?
Nothing like in Milkshape. but it did rotate and move back,but not like in Milkshape
:/

And as you said :

"I cannot say for sure, but it is very likely that when you import the body the way you describe that the bone assignments will be (nearly) all wrong. Bone assignments are carried as small values that reflect the index value (zero-based positioning) of the bone. UniMesh uses an order that is markedly different from the order used in the SimBody.smd file. So the import will likely have the assignments arranged incorrectly compared to the SimBody.smd skeleton."

That would explain why custom meshes animate 'wrong' in the game
I noticed that with all the smd exports i have, none of them are bigger than 490kb, all smaller, yet SimBody (called SB above) has over 500kb
Them extra few KBs could hold the vital information on making the mesh aniamte correctly

I wish I could write a program,and continue the Converter
:p

EDIT:
I have MADE and INTRIGING (sp?) discovery!
I opened Simbody in Notepad, then selected it all copied it,then pasted it into an export of AFBase.
I opened in MS, and it looked exactly the same as SimBody.
So I made another export of Afbase, opened that in Notepad then just pasted in the Nodes from Simbody.
i then imported the node edited Afbase export, made an animation.
In TS2,the animation looked to me EXACTLY the same as in MS !!!
So, i thought Id try again, same result,except this time,it was just a little different than in milkshape. Meaning you can have an accurate animation and be able to know what the sim will look like also!
I then pasted the nodevalues into an export of AMBase&CUBase, but when imported into MS, the skeleton is well and truly screwed
If you wanna have a play around/practice ,Ive attatched the BaseWomann (called Womann because my folders are a mess and i have many similar names,lol!)

Last edited by callum91 : 1st Apr 2007 at 05:07 PM.

Well, I can't really be much help. Its been so long since I did anything Sims related never mind about Sims animations.

I believe that I created the body smd file included with the converter program by using a modified version of the Meshtool me and Delphy wrote. Then I think I did a little bit of hand editing to fix a few things (so thats likely why no other program exports files in that format). The whole converter was very much at a early stage and I just never got time to finish. I really thought there would have been more complete programs for animations long before now. I'll look through some old notes and see if I can find out exactly how I created the smd file though.

As for why I haven't updated the program well I guess the simple answer is life just got busy.

Last edited by Miche : 1st Apr 2007 at 05:42 PM.

Wow,Miche, you ARE alive
In my above post,I think i found a fix for custom meshes for animations arent working, and its by copying the nodes from your SimBody.smd
Its a shame that life got in the way of anything sim related for you

Miche:

I am glad to see you are still 'alive and kicking'. I fully understand your life changes and lack of Sims2 activity, but still am happy to know you are obviously OK enough to be online.

I have never announced any plans I may or may not have regarding anything that may or may not resemble Sims2 animations. I will acknowledge that Miche gve me a copy of his source files, and that I have studied them, as well as other things.

I would likely never produce anything, were I consider any animations related work, that was exactly like Miche's converter. If I coded anything here, which may or may not have happened, it would probably just import or export ANIM files to and from MilkShape.

However, the format is very complex, and it is amazing that Miche got as much of it decoded as he did.

* wes_h raises his glass to Miche

<* Wes *>

I didn't think about that (direct editing). That may be your best shortcut.
You will notice that the very top of the SMD file has the bone names, and their parent nodes, in a section called "nodes". This is the first half of the bone ordering.

The second half is the section below it, called skeleton. These values are the initial location and rotation of each joint. Subsequent animation (other than time 0) parts are like this, except the locations/rotations are changed.

The mesh parts are in the "triangles" section. Essentially, for every face in the mesh there are three lines that have the joint reference number, followed by the coordiates, normal and UV data for each vertex. The important value here for our discussion is the small first vale, which is the joint number (the bone assignment).

So, what you want is to get all the triangles from the exported mesh file you want "B" and put them in a copy of SimBody.smd in place of all the traingles that are there. Now, to fix them, you need to look at the bone order differences between Simody and "B". In the original Simbody, the first vertex is numbered 52, which is "r_foot". You will have to make all occurances of whatever r_foot was numbered in file "B" be 52.

So you can probably make a list of bones from file "B", and then what number each is in simbody.smd, and when you change the reference bone numbers for all the triangles you should be set to go.

Note that this is all predicated on you using an adult female replacement mesh, due to differences in skeleton size. You could make a child or other size Simbody template, but the would require also making changes to the values in the second section, but keeping them in the order specified in the first section.

I'm sure this is all as clear as mud, but I think you are on the right track. I wish there were and easy way to edit with search and replace, but it is too likely that changing "54" to be "23" would also change an instance of "-0.1542" to be "-0.1232", which would make all sorts of position changes to the mesh.

<* Wes *>

Um,what?
Yes,its as clear as mud, and if you want to call me ignorant,thats fine
I understand what you meant about the nodes (the part that hold the vital info for making working anims) and if they are kept as same as the SimBody,then all will be fine.

I didnt have any weird occurances with the anim or anim making,except that the sim wouldnt sit on the floor,which is probably not supported by the Converter,to theres nothing I can do there,so it looks like all my anims will be standing,lol!

I am using the Af replacement mesh.

it WOULD take for ABSOLUTELY ages to find & replace each value,as i would say its over 200 lines long,and,honestly,i could never be bothered to do that

Well,the animation in game is very like is Milkshape except for a small bug,the hand looks like it grips,so probably need to look at them values again