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Lab Assistant
#51 Old 5th Jul 2009 at 6:50 AM
I think of it like so:

*Men wrote the bible. God did not
*Jesus was a historical figure and preached the word of God
*Jesus did NOT perform miracles. He was just very philosophical and smart.
*When a person dies, their brain decomposes. The brain is what makes people think, feel, and have a soul.
*It has been reported that at the time of death brain activity goes through the roof. This makes it debatable that one may live forever within one's (sub?)conscience. This is what I believe in general, but I don't think that it's a hugely solid fact.
*It has also been reported that there are centers of the brain that makes a person believe in God. I think that this was developed so that humans would have laws to abide by without having a set system of laws, but that's just what I think
*Thusly, there can be many possibilities of what humanity believes to be deity. The fact that it forms Christianity and all the other Christian-like religions doesn't mean that this is right.

I'm atheist.
It's just easier.
And muuuchhh less confusing. -puts earplugs in ears- I can't hear you, lalalalala.

PS. Did not mean to be offensive. If I was, just know it's only my opinion. Oh, and I read Dante's Inferno and it scared the crap out of me. But hey, if it's all true, that mean's I'll be kickin' it in a field with Socrates, so hey.

Winning the Game
Don't be absurd. This is a Maxis game! What's to win? You and your sims can play unto perpetuity, getting into entanglements and trying to get out, and by the time you know it, it will be 3am your time, and you don't even have your teeth brushed...
--The Sims 1 Prima Guide
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Scholar
#52 Old 5th Jul 2009 at 7:55 AM
Does anyone else find it problematic that an OMNISCIENT God created people, gave us free will, then decided to totally guilt us about sinning? He knew from the beginning that if He made Humans, then we'd totally sin. Why didn't He just tweak the design?

It's like writing out the full code to a Furby and then getting upset when it makes the farting noise you programmed it to make in the first place.


....God, Furbies are creepy.

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Inventor
#54 Old 5th Jul 2009 at 1:11 PM Last edited by urisStar : 5th Jul 2009 at 1:32 PM.
What if I were to say that that is only problematic if you actually believe that the bible is the word of God instead of man's perception/understanding of God, as false/wrong/erroneous as it may be?

What if I were to say that the men who wrote the words had as much insight into God as they do/did into women?

The same way they felt that women were unclean and should be regulated by men, is the same perception they had about God. The bible, if studied, will unfold to the reader/student that everything should be questioned as if all things printed in the bible world is the greatest deception perpetrated on God and women in an effort to see men as someone/something he is NOT.

The bible is only problematic when one refuse to try and understand what is behind it. Just look at it as men's justification to rule and control God and women whom he see as his greatest problem. Men are only good at story tell if there is something in it for him, (His-story) and if it is not about him, he always find a way to insert himself.
Scholar
#55 Old 5th Jul 2009 at 2:54 PM
Quote: Originally posted by urisStar
What if I were to say that that is only problematic if you actually believe that the bible is the word of God instead of man's perception/understanding of God, as false/wrong/erroneous as it may be?

What if I were to say that the men who wrote the words had as much insight into God as they do/did into women?

The same way they felt that women were unclean and should be regulated by men, is the same perception they had about God. The bible, if studied, will unfold to the reader/student that everything should be questioned as if all things printed in the bible world is the greatest deception perpetrated on God and women in an effort to see men as someone/something he is NOT.

The bible is only problematic when one refuse to try and understand what is behind it. Just look at it as men's justification to rule and control God and women whom he see as his greatest problem. Men are only good at story tell if there is something in it for him, (His-story) and if it is not about him, he always find a way to insert himself.



I actually share both of these sentiments with you, that
1) The bible was written by self-righteous, self-serving, imperfect men and does not reflect "reality"
2) That the bible has strong misogynistic under/overcurrents.


It's just that, in addition to this, I happen to be atheist as well.

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Field Researcher
#56 Old 5th Jul 2009 at 3:29 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Doddibot
No no, you've got it all wrong. God makes people suffer so that they will turn to God for help. Makes him feel needed or something. Look:


My thought there: Munchausen syndrome by proxy lol

Quote: Originally posted by Cyberian_Trooper
Can you prove to me that he doesn't exist?


I think you fail to understand how science works. You can not prove that something doesn't exist, you can only work your way towards understanding how things work and thus proving what actually exists through observation, experimentation, and counter experimentation. There is currently absolutely nothing that allows anyone to prove the existence of any diety.

Asking anyone to prove that your god doesn't exist is just as if you were saying that you also believe and have faith in every other single diety that has ever been prayed uppon, because really, can you prove that they never existed? Can you prove the flying spagetti monster doesn't exist?
Inventor
#57 Old 5th Jul 2009 at 3:29 PM
What if I were to say that whatever label one chooses to affix to themselves have little importance to who/what we are within, as labels only speak about the outside of us.

While we question everything around us/outside of us, it doesn't take away from the "IS" or the "I AM" of the/our inward reality.
Lab Assistant
#59 Old 5th Jul 2009 at 5:17 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Cyberian_Trooper
I don't know much about science but I do know about God. I believe in God and I put my faith in him. Oh is it possible for him to save an atheist? Yes it is.

http://www.ex-atheist.com/an-ex-atheists-gospel.html

I'm of the belief that a member of a religion may become an Atheist, but I do not believe that there is such a thing as an "ex-atheist". If you become a Christian or a member of some other religion, I believe that your capacity to believe always existed somewhere and you were never really an atheist in the first place. that said, I'm an atheist.

Quote: Originally posted by Mrs. Crumplebottom
*Jesus was a historical figure and preached the word of God
*Jesus did NOT perform miracles. He was just very philosophical and smart.


On the note of Jesus, I like to believe that the bible is more like a metaphor. He was born in a little backwater part of the world in the slums, essentially, and the "miracles" he performed were mere metaphors. They were miracles by virtue of his belief.
When Jesus turned water into wine, it was more that he made the poor appreciate that they had water, rather than regret that they did not have wine. It's all just one big metaphor. It's also one big lie, but that's just my bias.
Banned
#60 Old 5th Jul 2009 at 7:32 PM Last edited by Safyre420 : 5th Jul 2009 at 7:48 PM.
Quote: Originally posted by Cyberian_Trooper
Can you prove to me that he doesn't exist?

One more thing added to this discussion tell me why most people who aren't Christian hate Christians?

This is my answer but what is yours?

John 15:17-19
18"(B)If the world hates you, you know that it has hated Me before it hated you.

19"If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but (C)I chose you out of the world, (D)because of this the world hates you.


Didn't think you could. It's not up to me to prove that it doesn't exist, I didn't claim I had evidence that proved it didn't exist. You made the claim that there is evidence that it exists so it's up to you to provide that evidence, and the bible doesn't count as evidence.

Also, the reason why many non-christians hate christians is because of that vocal and sometimes not vocal bigot majority of christianity, the bloodthirstiness of the early church and the close mindedness of the church.
Banned
#62 Old 5th Jul 2009 at 9:27 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Cyberian_Trooper
You couldn't prove that God does exist either. I hope one day you may change your mind about God even if you don't think he is real. Every thing that I have written about my testimony is the truth as I have lived my life. That is the only proof I have that tells of his existence other then what the bible speaks and there the earliest disciples gave their own testimonies of God in the New Testament.


I know I can't prove that a god doesn't or does exist, I don't make the claim that I can do either.

Quote:
Well you know that depends on what you think bigot is? What do you mean by bigot? Is it about races and cultures? I have been in circles with various cultures with in Christianity. I have been to an all black church where I was the minority and it was quite an experience for me.

I have also been to a Chinese church as well too. I like various cultures and Christians are not suppose to be bigots. If they are then you have given me something to pray about. I just want to make sure I can understand you because if I am mistaken about what you meant could you please explain if I am wrong?

I don't think it's right to be a bigot either in terms of race and culture but if you define it differently then what I am thinking this may be what you had meant?


I'm talking about the religious people you always hear about in the news, ie westboro baptist, those types of bigots. The ones that are in the way of me living how I want to live. The ones that are constantly condemning others to hell. Those that are intolerant to others because they only read the words and not the meaning behind the words in their religious texts.
Alchemist
#63 Old 6th Jul 2009 at 4:22 AM
Quote: Originally posted by davious
Are you suggesting that the Reverend Martin Luther King Jr was only a follower?

There has never been a President of the United States that didn't believe in God, whether they were deist, protestant, catholic or quaker. Should we call them the followers of the free world instead? Are they not leaders anymore, because they believed in something higher than them? Sorry, your post is ridiculous. The ability to lead and belief in a religion are not mutually exclusive.


i beg to differ, and in fact, i find your post ridiculous as well.
mainly because, thats not what i was saying.
i was talking about anyone, ANYONE who follows...anything. born followers. thats NOT to say that followers cannot also be FOLLOWED. and thats not to say that leaders cant follow something, either. i use the terms leader and follower as personality attributes; people who are MORE LIKELY but not LIMITED TO the compulsion to follow or lead.
^^ please dont make a habit of putting words in my mouth, id be happy if you asked for clarification instead.

"The more you know, the sadder you get."~ Stephen Colbert
"I'm not going to censor myself to comfort your ignorance." ~ Jon Stewart
Versigtig, ek's nog steeds fokken giftig
Field Researcher
#64 Old 6th Jul 2009 at 4:30 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Safyre420
I'm talking about the religious people you always hear about in the news, ie westboro baptist, those types of bigots..The ones that are constantly condemning others to hell. Those that are intolerant to others because they only read the words and not the meaning behind the words in their religious texts.


You are aware that those type of people are the minority. They are just the most vocal and media just focuses too much attention on them. Those type of people aren't even really followers of what they preach. No need to punish everyone for a select few's actions.
Alchemist
#65 Old 6th Jul 2009 at 4:41 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Cyberian_Trooper
Okay if you don't buy into the whole rules bit then don't follow the rules here on Mod the Sims 2 and see where that gets you? Don't follow the rules in society such as breaking a law that will send you to prison. You find chaos when you don't follow the rules that are given. Those are example of rules that we have already right.

If you go over the speed limit on the highway if you happen to drive then a cop is going to chase you and stop you. Then he is going to give you a fine for speeding and no you aren't going like it and what person does likes getting a ticket? Now I don't even know if you happen to drive or not? It's just an example of breaking the rules if we don't follow through with them.

There are consequences if we don't follow them. Even diets have rules and same thing with how you play a game it has a set of rules as well too. Well we certainly are surrounded by rules. Well God has rules as well too and if we obey his rules there are rewards. That's the point I was trying to get at.


I do know what it is like to be hated by people because of what I believe. It is because of Jesus Christ I am hated and it's not fun.

I have seen people from various groups attack Christianity so much so they are trying their best to disprove it more and more but you know what? People can say that God doesn't exist but it doesn't mean they are telling the truth either if they don't see the evidence that he does exist. It's a sad to see people miss out because it's a whole different experience on an individual level other then what people view the christian church as a whole.


[ sorry i didnt get back to you for a while, i do mean to reply, but life happens. yknow. ]
just because i dont buy into rules doesnt mean i run around breaking ones created by others. i live by my own hand, regardless of what that means to others.
and im not disagreeing that actions have consequences. HOWEVER i AM disagreeing that actions of a nature that others disagree with, are actually bad in nature.
cancer, for instance. plenty of people call cancer BAD, cancer is EVIL, an INJUSTICE....when really all it is, is an anomaly. clear of negative or positive emotional input.

you may find chaos. but you may also find people whom are just fine by governing themselves by peaceful means. you dont need to enforce something by force, to agree on and follow through with it.

haha...obviously youve never been on a freeway.
i dont drive, myself, because things are hectic as they are. but ive seen others going WAY over the speed limit, unmolested by police cars. face it; rules may be put there for any reason, but there is nothing that can keep them truly, 100% enforced or 100% with consequence.
and ive never gotten a ticket. i imagine i wouldnt give a shit either way, if i did or didnt, because id probably never drive like that to begin with. [ cars freak me out, large metal death traps is what they seem like DOESNT MAKE THEM AS SUCH, but, thats my emotional input on it. ]

we may be surrounded by rules, but all rules are, are governing decisions made by others to either serve a purpose for the time being or...just another method of controlling others.
now. some people NEED rules. some people NEED to be told what they should and should not expect to do with or without uproar from others. but others, i suppose like myself... dont agree.

now. all of the things that you listed, have MATERIAL consequences, and ive already given instances of when there are no consequences at all.
in fact if you lie, the only consequence there is, is if your lie is discovered to be a lie. or if you cheat on a test; thats breaking a rule, but if nobody saw you do it, or have proof of it. you get off scott free.

now then all of what you said after that is rather personal, and youre quite entitled to it, but id rather this not turn into a pour-your-heart-out-and-compare-experiences contest.
so i'll refrain from replying to it, as well as sharing my own.

though id like to point out, its nobodys fault but your own for what you choose in life. you chose to follow jesus, and thus, you chose to endure whatever was a result of it. for better and for worse.

and i bolded the last part to tell you this: 'the truth' is an idea. its not a solid, written in stone fact. truth is a matter of perception, and perception changes with the person its applied to.

though ive already said i view the church as a cult. religion on an individual level is just fine, peachy keen...but...it doesnt need to be a group activity to reach individual conceptions of results. after it becomes a group activity, it becomes an excuse to form opposition. just take a look at the churches--hell, ANYones history. its why others try to keep their enemies divided; so that they may not group, and rise to threaten them as a more powerful or influential force.
HOWEVER. i have nothing against an individual whom embraces their religion. thats their business, and i leave them to it. so long as they dont harass me about the " save your soul " mumbo jumbo. thanks but no thanks.

the road of good intention is paved with ignorance.

"The more you know, the sadder you get."~ Stephen Colbert
"I'm not going to censor myself to comfort your ignorance." ~ Jon Stewart
Versigtig, ek's nog steeds fokken giftig
Test Subject
#66 Old 6th Jul 2009 at 6:55 AM
Religon is stupid. Whatever religon anyone is blabbers on about how they're right and everyone else is wrong.

The first step to creating a utopia is to eliminate religon, all it does is tear people apart if they don't believe in the same thing.
Banned
#67 Old 6th Jul 2009 at 8:10 AM
Quote: Originally posted by BR_FL
You are aware that those type of people are the minority. They are just the most vocal and media just focuses too much attention on them. Those type of people aren't even really followers of what they preach. No need to punish everyone for a select few's actions.


The ones you see in the media are a minority, but there are many many others that fit the descriptions I gave, most of them in the bible belt.
Field Researcher
#68 Old 6th Jul 2009 at 7:38 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Safyre420
The ones you see in the media are a minority, but there are many many others that fit the descriptions I gave, most of them in the bible belt.


Again, you are making generalizations. Just as it's not fair or truthful for me to say all atheists or most atheists are immoral and evil, it's not fair to say most Christians are bigots and hypocrites.
Scholar
#70 Old 7th Jul 2009 at 4:51 PM
Quote: Originally posted by urisStar
What if I were to say that whatever label one chooses to affix to themselves have little importance to who/what we are within, as labels only speak about the outside of us.

While we question everything around us/outside of us, it doesn't take away from the "IS" or the "I AM" of the/our inward reality.




I would say the label I've chosen to affix to myself (atheist) quite meaningfully describes how I perceive and experience the world--or rather, the thought processes of my inner self. This is because, in order to reach the stage where I could comfortably call myself an atheist, I had to reject, reorganize, and re-examine how I interpret the world. (I was raised Catholic.)


I would also wonder if you're writing in between the lines a little, and I'm missing some other point you're trying to make.

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Inventor
#71 Old 8th Jul 2009 at 1:41 AM
Quote: Originally posted by robokitty
I would say the label I've chosen to affix to myself (atheist) quite meaningfully describes how I perceive and experience the world--or rather, the thought processes of my inner self. This is because, in order to reach the stage where I could comfortably call myself an atheist, I had to reject, reorganize, and re-examine how I interpret the world. (I was raised Catholic.)


I would also wonder if you're writing in between the lines a little, and I'm missing some other point you're trying to make.


Yes, just the fact that you where in tune to the fact that my comment/writing is in between the line (but I was going for more like in between flesh and blood), even though you did not get it , speaks to my observation of most that uses the label atheist. They are insightful and responsive to their “I AM”, “IS” of their true self and to the reality that something is greatly wrong with the teachings that others hold onto because of their fear to honor their own insight.

I would even go so far as to say that they understand more than they are given credit for, but because it is so against the grain of the many, they don’t take it to the next level, as that road traveled is almost to completely empty.

I won’t however, go any further, as not to come off as presumious, I am assured it will all come together in ways that those who have affixed religious labels to themselves have not yet experience.
Scholar
#72 Old 11th Jul 2009 at 3:41 AM
Check the Catholic Bishop for our discussions if you want some background info before joining us. 8D

Quote: Originally posted by Splurgy
Well, it's a nice thing, but like I said there are plenty of examples in the secular world of similar things. Take Patriotism, for example.


Patriotism is confined to a state, while the concept of the Ummah is much broader and global.

Quote: Originally posted by Splurgy
Hm...I'd say so, since I can't really think of anything caused directly by secularism.


How about trying to stamp out religion? Hindering the life of religious people. Sometimes forbidding them from worship or even wearing anything close to a religious symbol?

Quote: Originally posted by Splurgy
On the whole, it has strangled it. Hence the whole stem cells are bad thing. Sure, it allowed Gregor Mendell to tend to his plants in peace, but it is also responsible for trying to suppress the theories of Galileo, Darwin and others, along with valuable research into things like stem cells.


You do understand that Christianity isn't the only faith out there...right?

Quote: Originally posted by Splurgy
Eh, you've got me there.


I win! 83

Quote: Originally posted by Splurgy
Well, of course there are other reasons for war, but starting a war because someone believes in a different God to you isn't exactly helping matters.


True, but neither is invading another country becasue it doesn't have the same political, economic or life view as yours anymore helpful. War sucks, period. I much prefer hostile take over through economic means.

Quote: Originally posted by Splurgy
That's besides the point, isn't it? One's selling a particular product albeit it in a vociferous manner, and the other's trying to hawk organized religion onto you.


Not really. Both of them are trying to shove a message down your thought that you really don't want or agree with.
Field Researcher
#73 Old 11th Jul 2009 at 7:20 AM
Well to leap in at the beginning here, I'll stick to being a Fatal-Atheist, and keep running with the ideology.

Quote:
So I'll let you explain your ideas of what faith means to you and why people assume bad things about it. Then I'll let you argue your case why your religious is important


Faith, to me, is something that people tend to follow as if they're a blind man with a dog. Just the term "faith" is to mean that it's something that is believed yet is thus unproven; or, even a sense of trust in something that people can't see -- something that isn't palpable. Example: I've got faith that my dog values me as a comrade and won't bite me in the morning, and that gravity will keep my feet on the ground, respectively.

Essentially, my belief system is based on the notion that life is a path people follow from start to finish. Each decision affects the person, and others nearby, no matter how large or small the ripple may be. And each individual is responsible for thinking logically enough to plan for some of these effects, lest the world go FUBAR. That's where rules come from -- to help people realize "oh, that could probably impact someone negatively, huh?" instead of wondering "What happens if I push my friend into rush-hour traffic?"

I personally view faith and religion as bad things because of the general ideals: people who force it at others, and the necessity of a belief in a god or deity so that people have some manner of crutch to lay the weight of their decisions and lives upon. If it puts you quietly at peace of mind, then that's fine and has nothing to do with me -- but the moment I get 100 glares for not bowing my head in prayer at the beginning of an assembly is the point I draw the line. It's mainly the reason I want to slap someone who says "I'll pray that you find the light and/or become saved" when they discover that I'm not a "Jesus" kinda gal. The closest I'll ever become to believing anything of the sort of religion is my personal concept of energy -- the force someone exerts through life that influences empathy and emotion.

And (un)fortunately, I'm quite pleased with keeping it that way.
Mad Poster
#74 Old 11th Jul 2009 at 10:21 AM
Faith to me, is my trust in God and that's all I really have to say.

"Going to the chapel of Love"

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