That theory is not proven. You can't say "X causes homosexuality" because there isn't an agreement in these.
The most common theory is that there are some genetic factors combined with the personal experiences.

That is what i was saying earlier, as someone linked to a youtube video saying about genes etc BUT it was only saying about men being gay due to genes NOT women. although it was saying about the pregnancy part due to women having more and more boys and their body attacks the baby male creating more oestrogen or something like that i watched it about a week ago !

BUT i did say " is there any evidence and where did they get their research from "

I would say i'm a lesbian only for the fact that i'm married with 3 children, so i say i'm bi .
I just don't fancy or find other men attractive! Why i don't know But i don't. I really don't like looking at any male porn or any other images like that. It just doesn't ring my bell at all.
I just fell in love with my husband as a person and married him BUT he knows i find women attractive and not men.
I really do feel that it has to do with who you feel attracted to and not just the sex of someone all the time.
I didn't choose to like women , it just happened and I did.

lilac_sim, I was answering to MaydayParade, not to you
I understood what you meant and I agree with you, similar thing happens to me.

I think that when a homosexual person is suddenly attracted to the opposite gender, it's a biological thing. Your instincts know that you can't procreate with those of your own gender...and it's totally natural for any animal to have the instinct to procreate. I don't even think it means you're bi, just an ordinary human animal like the rest of us.

The first gay people I ever met, were other kids in primary school with me. They were what they were, and had no choice in the matter. Attraction is a natural reaction, and you can't control it...only what you do about it.

To tell you the truth, many women fall under this category. Alot of scientific study over the decades showed that women tend to show little interest in men sexually, and that seeing other women was actually more arousing! These women considered themselves heterosexual, as well...but they are solely interested in parenting up with men and starting a family (had zero interest in women romantically). I wish I could find the link for you that really explains this mess...it appears what (some) women are really looking for is a woman with a penis, oddly enough....




Male porn is disgusting, that's why. The only reason gays can stomach it is because of the sick feelings it gives them below the waist...

Not necessarily. Mainstream porn is foul, sure, because of its weird fixation on this screwed up power play, and that applies to M/M, M/F, F/F, M/F/F, M/M/F, M/R, and anything else... but I've watched plenty of good porn with guys in it. There's even tasteful gay male porn - though I don't find it interesting at all (not enough TITS!).
That said - it's not sick to get horny watching porn. And gay men are just as selective about their porn as the rest of us (by which I mean that the minority are selective and the majority don't know what they're missing; reflects the rest of society perfectly).

Regarding the Christian vs. Ms Penis Envy video (hey, I dunno what else to call it!), it's taken from a documentary called For the Bible Tells Me So, which may or may not have pikied it from a US education program. It seems to be reasonably well-researched, but unfortunately it doesn't explicitly cite its sources, which makes it hard to verify. That kinda makes the right point though - there are loads of theories floating about, none have been proven, most have been disproven but not reliably, and the vast majority focus on homosexual men. Which is why we can debate this topic without all being wrong! .

Uhmmmm being gay is no more a choice then the color of your skin. You were born that way. Look at my avatar! Haha! What I don't get is why it's such a big deal. Who cares what you are? We are all people. I also hate people who go all "religion" it pisses me off. If you believe in God, I'm pretty sure he tells you to love everybody.

Okay, so let's assume homosexuality is a behavior, just like any other behavior. What causes somebody to be a nymphomaniac? What causes somebody to be hypercompetitive? What causes depression or alcoholism or gambling problems?

Maybe you have some genetic or biologic disposition in that direction ... and maybe your life experiences define it. Maybe it's all of one and none of the other, maybe it's a little of both. We are complicated critters defined by nature AND nurture. Anybody who professes that there's a single cause and they know what it is needs to be strung up and beat like a pinata (which won't stop them from being stupid, but it'll at least amuse me).

The only valid reason I can think of to know the CAUSE of a behavior is to start working on fixing or stopping that behavior. After all, you don't see anybody losing sleep on the causes of "successful" or "positive" behaviors, do you? When was the last time you saw a debate over the CAUSES of friendliness or cleanliness? (And if you have, I'd like a link to that train wreck.)

The first thing we need to do as a society, in order to reach that first stage of true acceptance, is STOP QUESTIONING IT. Let it be. Stop poking it with a stick like it'll change if you poke it enough. It won't, you'll only make it angry. It's there, it's not going away, and it doesn't care if you don't like it. So go waste your time on something that matters.

On that same note, we need to stop legislating the bedroom altogether. What happens behind closed doors needs to stay there ... and if it's legal for an atheist to get married (and it is), then religion should have no input whatsoever on the topic.

Well, if you're an Old Testament sort of follower, you'll know that God hates homosexuals (and women, pagans, etc.).

That's pretty harsh and judgmental. You may not find male porn to be particularly arousing and that's your opinion and there's nothing wrong with it but there are people who do enjoy it and to call it disgusting is to call them disgusting. Also, arousal is not a sick feeling below the waist. Arousal is normal, natural and wonderful.

One thing I've always found interesting, is that one of the Old Testament scriptures that supposedly speaks out against homosexuality also speaks out against fabric woven of multiple types of fiber. Howver, I've never seen nor read of any groups picketing Walmart, Bed Bath and Beyond, Macy's etc. for selling polyester/cotton blend merchandise.

Well, here's my opinion. I was having the same debate with a couple of family members about my bisexuality. I tried telling them that sexual orientation is not a choice, but they kept giving me the same argument that if you have sex with someone of the same gender, then you choose to do that and therefore, you are choosing to be homosexual. The way they see it, you become a homosexual from the actual sexual experience. I see it as, you are homosexual (or bi or pan) once you develop and recognize the attraction. I have never had a sexual experience with someone of the same sex, but I have found myself attracted to girls, a few of them my best friends. That's how I discovered that I was that way, but I never tried anything because I live in a very homophobic, racist community and I get heckled enough for being Black. I wasn't raised in this particular community, though, and my mom is a very tolerant person, but my dad is Jamaican and he was raised to believe that homosexuality was wrong, so he did his best to discourage that behavior in all of us. I was raised in the typical Dad comes home from a 9-5 job every day/ Mom slaves herself in the kitchen and focuses her day on raising her child to be the best they can be. I mean, I don't think that my sexuality was a product of my environment, either. I don't really know what caused, no one does. There are tons of theories, but nothing concrete. I guess it's just one of life's many mysteries. I'm just trying to focus on living my life, no matter how many people oppose to it and want reasons for why I live the way I do. I seriously recommend that others do the same, then the world would be a much better place.

I read some of the posts, though I admit I only read some and kinda skipped over the majority of the thread, since it's 21 pages long. Since when is this thread a religious debate? Sorry just my two cents there.

As for the topic, sexual preference is and always will be a choice. I was straight in school, and I KNOW that for a fact, by the way. Hint hint.
I decided I wanted to be gay when I hit 20, and whaddya know, I am.

Also I kind of hate it when people confuse attraction with sexual preference. Attraction is a physical response, sure, but you see any human in certain risky situations and you ARE going to get some sort of response. Sexual preference is a mental decision that you like one sex over the other. Attraction sure helps with that, yes, but the last time I checked, the mind controls the body, not the other way around.

So yeah. There ya go.

Also, about the twins thing in the first post... wow. 52%. That's almost a 50/50 chance. Almost as if I was deciding between two different choices... *wink*

Unfortunately this is all the opinions/results of the inner machinations of my mind. I'm 100% sure I'm right on this subject, but that's just it. I am sure, not you. So take this for what you will, but at the very least don't disregard it.

"Here's my experience -- surely, it applies to everyone."

Not any different than a straight person telling me what I am and am not. So if you're done being snarky...?

Also, believe it or not, I'm not the only gay man who believes he has a choice in his sexual orientation.

If it's not any different, then you'd realize how ridiculous your other evidence sounds:

The ratio of men to women is 1:1, or 50/50. Wow, it almost sounds like they're choosing between two options.

And you're 100% positive you're correct? BS. Being gay doesn't exempt you from being wrong.

And your point is? I never gave evidence, anyway. I'm pretty sure I stated that it was my opinion.

I don't see why you're so hostile to me, but clearly you're too emotionally invested in this subject to treat a newcomer with any sort of respect whatsoever. Opinions are opinions, not cold hard facts. Please get used to the idea.

As for the "positive I'm correct" part... Well, the reason I believe I'm correct in my way of thinking is because I have not seen any evidence to the contrary that would change said way of thinking. When you can provide me with some sort of credible evidence, then we'll talk.

Just because some people act bigoted, it doesn't give you an excuse to do so. Your experience is without doubt very true for you, but the way you phrase it, it comes off as discrediting the experiences of others.
I am straight, and without getting into detail, women have jiggly bits which are fun, I'm sure, but my thoughts on the matter are somewhat apathetic.
Sexuality is fluid, and if yours can change like that, cool.

If the mind rules the body, where is the mind?

In other words, I shall turn your argument around: "All people are exclusively heterosexual: You are just giving God the finger."

Additionally, "please get used to the idea" that you cannot state opinion as fact, least of all bigoted opinions, without having people challenge you.

Actually I kind of agree with that last sentence.
And when I state my opinions, of course it sounds like I'm coming across as judgmental, etc. It's my opinion, not theirs. You are welcome to your own opinions, but I am fully within my right to agree or disagree.

I just find it a bit... irritating when I give my two cents about a subject, in a rather calm and normal way, and then someone comes out of the blue, goes "I can't let you do that, Star Fox", and I end up in some sort of free for all instead of a debate.

I'm not emotionally invested in the subject. I am an asshole, though, if that's what you meant. However, "I'm 100% sure I'm right on this subject" doesn't sound like "this is my opinion and it's open to discussion". Maybe that's just me.

Come to think of it, neither did "sexual preference is and always will be a choice". Here's a fun game to play: Reverse the orientations in your post and read it as it were the perspective of a straight man. Sounds ignorant and bigoted, doesn't it? Funny how that works.

Newbies often get along well here because they, like the rest of us, lurk and read other people's posts before throwing their hat in the ring. If you want evidence to the contrary, perhaps you should bother to read the thread.

Apparently you didn't see the disclaimer at the bottom of the post that said "Unfortunately, these are the opinions/inner machinations of my mind" or something to that effect. And I'm an asshole, as well, but I do try to get along sometimes. Especially on a new forum in a rather controversial part of said forum.

Besides, issues like these are always emotionally charged, one way or another. I've stated my views on the subject, and they aren't going to change any time soon. Why should I doubt myself on something I've observed to be true from both personal experience and the experiences of others? At least, in this, I will have some degree of confidence in myself, ok?

Sigh. I guess the world still works the way I always thought it did. Still.
I'll get out of your hair for now, and for future reference I think I'll stay away from subjects that will cause others to have a sudden desire to go pyromaniac on my rear end.

It's certainly a better idea than arguing with no end in sight due to the clash of free wills and opinions that society inevitably causes.

...wait, so you were hoping to go unchallenged in the debate room?

I was actually just going to drop my two cents into a mixture of failure, then go do something fun. Like sleep.

Also a small part of me seems to love pointless debates.
Besides, challenged is one thing. Being insulted is a different story. Not saying that's what you did, though, unalisaa. I actually like you for the most part, from what I've read in the forums so far.

It actually took me about ten minutes to decide posting in this forum or not. I'm not really as arrogant as someone else here thinks I am.

Now, I'm leaving for now, so don't expect any replies after this one.

According to my knowledge and psychological research and studies homosexuality is generally a result of mixed motivations. It is suggested that there exists something within a homosexual that motivates him to be homosexual. It is also the person's environment that aids to his homosexuality. I don't think any serious homosexual will endure all the hardships and suffering that goes with the lifestyle. No sane person would choose such a fate and be subject to ostracism, hatred and bigotry. People are complex beings and at the end of the day we need to live and let live. :-)

Hey, what about the completely silly homosexuals?!