Well, there's nothing wrong with analysing sexuality or gender - we have studies on factors contributing to academic level, we have studies on genetic inheritance, studies on cultural differences... why not studies on sexuality too? I think for a group which has long been discriminated against, it's too easy for LGBTs to hear that someone is "studying" us and assume that we're being regarded as zoo animals or some interesting disease - when in fact we're just part of the normal, fascinating diversity of the species.

Last edited by whiterider : 18th Jul 2011 at 07:00 PM.

I don't think it's a choice. I am a Christian, and I support gay marriage. In fact, my sister is bisexual and very religious. My youth pastor thinks it's a "choice", but I have to disagree. It just isn't, plain and simple.

People don't really choose who they are sexually attracted to. I also think our definition of being either gay or straight is a bit rigid. Most people have had a homosexual attraction at some point in their life or a heterosexual one, and that isn't really a defining characteristic. I think humanity would be better if people were allowed to be attracted to whoever they wanted to be, without it being an issue or even worhty of a label.

I think the concept of being simply either gay or straight just forces people into rigid little boxes, when the truth is that we aren't usually 100% anything. I've had hetero people date same gender, and gays go the opposite direction and so thus, fluidiity exists between the spectrum of sexuality that most people are a bit too uncomfortable to acknowledge.

I think that there can be some fluidity in some cases, though I don't think I would state it as strongly as saying no one is fully straight or gay, but there was another topic where we talked about the issues with removing labels for sexuality. For one, it makes it harder for people who are of a minority sexuality, because it becomes harder for them to advertise their sexuality to look for a partner, which may be necessary for people in minorities. It also does nothing to change society's perception of sexual minorities. If society is generally tolerant of things outside the 'norm', then it would retain that tolerance, but if it is generally intolerant to things outside of the 'norm', with or without a label, it will be intolerant to them.

Well, I did say people 'aren't usually' 100% anything, and I stick by that. That doesn't equate to no one. I just feel that most people at some point in their lives have had a samesexlthought or desire. That is pretty normal. In general most people are straight as statistics show, but does it mean they never had a gay thought or desire?

I can see what you're saying about minoriites having a difficult time finding partners. I hadn't considered that. I will have to think on that one for a while.

I am still amazed that we are living in the 2nd decade of the 21st century and this is still a hot-button topic. Why are we so keen to judge each other for so many things?

It is said- and I agree BTW, that people do not choose who they attracted to. But they do make choices whether or not to act on their impulses. Some people do not come out until their fifties- sometimes due to fear of judgement or ostracism, sometimes fear of admitting their own nature to themselves. Take this, and absent any other defining human or social characteristic should make us- humans who are socially opposed to seeing suffering- should be inherently tolerent of differences. But, we are not. If no 2 people can agree to disagree upon religion or polititics, they will not likely agree on human sexuality.

I have had someone's sexuality and right to choose shoved (proverbially) so far up my nose that it is respulsive. I've seen just intolerate, insolent and unjustified hatred applied to otherwise beautiful human beings to where I was moved to near violent emotion. People are inherently good; people are inherently intolerant of things they are ignorant of; people are crap when it comes to loving each other as members of the same family: humanity.

The U.S. professes to be the land of liberty; freedom to live as you choose. and yet this country of mine is one of the last in the modern world to view it's citizens who "choose an alternative lifestyle" as valid. (Don't you just love that? Alternative lifestyle? Like loving someone is an alternative... Like anyone has alternatives to being alive, needing to be loved and give love in return.)

Hey! Let the perfect people come up here and throw their stones... but they better have their perfection certified. I have stones of my own.

This might not add to the discussion, but I'm still throwing it out there. Human reproduction is not a sensical* system. It's as if someone built an amusement park next to waste treatment facility**. Terrible zoning. It's not going to be pretty no matter which way you do it.

* I'm an English Major I can make up my own words.
** Females have a similar waste treatment facility, but theirs is equipped to deal with extra biohazards every few days of the month.

Coming from a gay person, I don't feel it is a choice at all. If anything I am simply not required to procreate so why should I be limited to a 'natural' relationship?
You can't just force a gay person into feeling attracted to the opposite sex, you can't 'fix' them with some voodoo remedy because it isn't a disease or a mental handicap, it's just a sexual orientation which in my experience, doesn't effect ones ability to function in society.

What you don't understand, you shouldn't despise. Closed minds leave no room to evolve or accept, experience and progress through life.

As far as I'm aware it's only when menstruating that women have any "biohazards" as you put it. But really, it's only a bit of blood and as long as you don't ingest it or rub it in an open wound it's not harmful to one's health. The vagina is not a waste treatment facility it's only purpose (I use that loosely and not as in everyone who has one has to use it like so) is sex and reproduction. There is a small opening above the vagina from which comes urine, it's called the urethral opening and is not connected in anyway to the vagina. It's also not a problem unless you have urolagnia, though risk can be mediated with that as well.

Really the most important part of any sexuality is staying safe and using discretion. Be smart, be victorious.

I think that gays aren't attracted by guys from birth.I also don't believe that people have their parents's character.Everyone makes himself,so gays are not gays from birth.I think they are being attracted by the guys becase they are dissapointed in opposite gender.But I think it's their own desicion,so they must accept all the consequenses of it.They must understand that this is not normal,not natural.And they can be brought back to normal.God created men and women,not only one gender.And personally I think that love of people of the same gender cannnot be a real,unconditional love forever.Of course,they can do everything they want,it's their life,and the God will judge them,not me or someone else.But I think that the government must forbid them to adopt children or make them in other ways,because their children can become gays too and they will ruin new generations(I mean kids).I also think that every information about them must be removed from mass media,in the same reason.We should take care of our new generations.

Guess what, all my gay/lesbian friends and myself all have heterosexual parents. By your reasoning, we should all be heterosexual too.

So far, all the adopted children of gay couples I know are heterosexual, except one. The exception is a 13 year old gay boy who's Christian parents threw him out of the house when they found out he was gay.

He's with a lesbian couple by the way, so you don't have to worry about him being molested by an older male couple. The person I know that that happened to, was a female being molested by her own father and her uncle. Guess you don't need to be gay to fuck up your child's life.

Christian and heterosexual does it just as well.

Since you seem to be so god-fearing, you had better go check your clothing and other household linnens for those that are woven of more than one kind of thread (ie: pollyester/cotton blends vs 100% cotton) and throw them all away, as they are on one of the same lists in the Bible that condems homosexuality. Using/wearing them makes you just as "unclean".

As for it being "un-natural", it exists in over 400 species; so, obviously that point is just plain wrong.

Well, I don't think straight people are attracted to the opposite sex from birth either. I think sexual attraction develops in everyone as they grow and develop and pass through puberty. So, it seems to me, that the rest of your argument there is invalid since you have based it on a false assumption.

I don't think so.Everything changes with the events.And people,when they are children aren't attracted to anyone?So parents must care about their children,so they could make the right choice.Everithing changes and depends of the events.So,the main is to choose the correct path and stay on it,no matter what happens.

I'm not even going to argue to evidence here. It would be pointless. If I say sexuality is a genetically imprinted thing, you'll be asking me to find the specific string of nucleotides that make up our sexuality.

The Bible (aka the book you're pulling your moral stance on homosexuality from) states the penalty of death is a proper punishment for practicing homosexuality. Do you really agree with this?

Yeah, you have a point. I never hear of any American homosexual couples having long, happy marriages like the rest of us. They must be swingers.

Did you stop to consider that maybe the reason you think gays don't appear to stay in long relationships is due to the fact that many societies don't recognize their relationships as valid?

Screw that noise. You -are- judging them, otherwise you wouldn't care that they weren't "normal", according to your narrow concept of the word. Also, your fake tolerance of gays and surrender of judgment to God is a bunch of morally-superior hogwash. Don't try to mask your bigotry, because we both know you look down on homosexuals for being the way they are.

If you're so worried about people spreading The Gay, you should blame the straight parents. They're the ones having all of those gay kids؟

Also, you're contradicting yourself. You said kids don't take on their parent's character. Which is it? Are potential gay parents and the gay community influencing our youth or are our youth choosing to be gay on their own?

Yes, lets ostracize homosexuals and homosexual behavior to avoid having more homosexuals in the future. How can you write this with a straight face? The penalty of death is not enough to stop people from "choosing" to be gay. They'll hide it and they'll pretend it's not there, but they'll still be gay.

We should take care of our next generation, but that doesn't mean we should be creating avenues for them to grow to hate one another.

AND I TRIED VERY VERY VERY HARD NOT TO WRITE THIS POST IN ALL CAPS

Last edited by Element Leaf : 26th Aug 2011 at 10:23 PM.

@KindGenius: Come on! Everybody knows homosexuality is caused by the phases of the moon!

No, most people start to develop their sexuality somewhere between early childhood and puberty. But the characteristics that ultimately lead them to discover what their sexuality is are, for the most part, already in place. Genetics and prenatal environment are the major influencing factors on a person's sexuality.



Not everything about a person is exactly like his/her parents, but there are strong genetic influences on what type of person you will become. Fundamental personality traits are mainly genetic. Anything beyond that is usually influenced, not by parents, but by peers. But I'll tell you right now that peers have little influence on a person's sexuality, except maybe to convince someone to be more proud/more ashamed of their sexuality.



Most of the gay guys I know simply don't find women attractive. The same way I, as a straight woman, simply don't find women attractive. I'm not disappointed in women, and, in fact, I am quite homosocial (most of my friends are female and I am most comfortable socializing with women). I just don't feel attracted to women. Gay guys just don't feel attracted to women, either.



Anything that happens in nature is natural. We humans and all of our quirks are natural. We developed in nature, our brains developing as our physiology changed. Everything that has flowed out from our brains, our technology, science, religion, what-have-you - all are natural.

To take a different tack, homosexuality is also practiced in animals. I can't count the number of times I've had to reference this page in debates on homosexuality. There are even animals, such as swans, that live in long-term homosexual relationships. There really is nothing out of the ordinary with homosexuality.



What makes you think that? If you can have eternal, unconditional love for someone of the opposite gender, what prevents someone from having the same with the same gender. Love is largely induced by a mess of chemicals. When people are slightly chemically different from the "norm", they can be attracted by the appearance, smell, and taste of those of the same sex. Whether it lasts is a matter of compatibility of personality. There is a huge spectrum of personalities and few, if any, traits are restricted to one sex or the other.



But you are judging them. When you get up on a soapbox to talk about how it isn't natural and try to lay blame, you are judging. If you weren't judging, you'd take the view that some Christians take, that no one's perfect and people have their differences. Or maybe you'd take the more pragmatic Christian view, that a lot of the commandments in the Bible are outdated and backward in modern society. Or maybe you'd simply view things through a rational lens and see that homosexuality exists, it doesn't hurt anyone, and there's nothing wrong with it.



Would you really have adoption agencies withhold adoption from a couple willing to take care of a child in need of a home, simply because you think homosexuality is wrong? And, as I discussed earlier, a person's sexuality is largely determined by genetics and prenatal environment. There's nothing that parents can do to change that. And given the large number of children that spend their lives in the foster care system, adoption agencies should really be looking to place children with any responsible, caring parents. If a gay couple demonstrates that they are capable of taking care of a child, let them have a child.



Even if we removed all information about homosexuality from the media, it would not prevent people from being homosexual. Even in the more prudish days of our forefathers, when homosexuality was not spoken of and harshly punished where it was discovered, there were homosexuals. All that removing homosexuality from the media would accomplish is an increase in the stigma of homosexuality. As someone who claims to follow the tenants of a religion that commands you to love your fellow man, do you really want to make life more hellish for people who can't help the fact that they are the way they are, people who aren't hurting anyone by practicing their preferences?

Well,maniacs are unnatural.As gays and lesbians.Gays are not attracted by women because of something in them they don't like.But you must understand,this is not normal.You're thinking about science too much.You must understand that there are some things science cannot explain.And sometimes science can be wrong,admit it.We love people because of their soul,not appearance,smell,or some chemical substances.And sometimes we don't know how we really feel.One thing is to feel,but another is to understand what you feel.Besides,everyone feels in his own way.So,gays can think they love people of the same gender,but they are not.Actually,my friend once thougt she is a lesbian and thought that it's normal,just like you.I told her the same I tel you now,but she dissagreed.And that was before she saw him.Her love.She told that she feel to him different than to women.And she said that she was wrong.So,I don't blame gays,these are just people who can't understand their feelings.

Example. Me. Don't like LOTS of things about women. Enjoy male company. Still like (LIKE like) women.



But can't have them. (Y U PLAY HARD TO GET?! D': )

Because your attitude -- perhaps unintentionally -- comes off as condescending and somewhat misogynist.

Strange - I'm attracted to both women and men, and understand exactly what I find attractive in both genders (which is completely different for men and women - what I find sexy in a man I would find a turnoff in a woman). I'm in love with, married to, and monogamous with a man, and yet I still find certain women incredibly sexually attractive. Sure, I love people because of their soul, but I want to fuck them when they're hot, and someone can have a super awesome soul but be someone I have no interest in fucking.

I understand my feelings just fine and have spent -years- on self-examination and trying to understand why I think and feel the things I do (not just in sexual attraction/relationships but in general). Pretty condescending to say someone who is attracted to the same gender doesn't understand their feelings. And I have felt this way since I was a child - when I started playing "doctor" and doing the harmless sexual exploration that all kids do, it was with boys -and- girls. I live inside my head on a daily basis and have a damn good understanding of what goes on in there and why - until you're in my brain, you don't get to decide that I'm just confused.

Well,maybe it's not sexual attraction?Think of it.

Nope, sorry, definitely sexual attraction. Thought of it plenty already - been this way my whole life, and had sexual experiences with both men and women. Pretty hard to confuse sexual attraction for anything else when you're naked and aroused with someone.

Last edited by HystericalParoxysm : 29th Aug 2011 at 01:16 PM.

Well,I can say that the person of the same gender is beautiful,but I am not lesbian.I just like this person's appearance.But I mean attraction in your mind,not phisical intimate.I mean when you feel unusual to somebody one,not to everyone in one time.