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New Creator Theme: Elders! - posted on 1st Sep 2018 at 11:43 AM
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Sim Princess in Pink
#26 Old 14th Sep 2009 at 8:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1ove
"Whoa" to what? The whole post?

I always wished they had tried something else. Unfortunately, they weren't that open. I guess I'll have to do it with my own children and see how it comes out, but I'm convinced there is definitely more than just one way.


No, sorry I meant the last bit about being beat...

Of course there is more then one way, there is always more then one way to go about anything. People that don't smack children know that there is the choice too and visa versa. Just boils down to personal choice, there is never going to be a wrong or right answer just a matter of opinion.

Please, Call Me Lou :D
Field Researcher
#27 Old 14th Sep 2009 at 8:15 PM
I was abused and I'm still pissed about it. :\ I'm not trying to tell a sob story, but it definitely affects you. There's a really thin line between "spanking" and "beating" and doing either out of anger can really scare a child. I'm not planning on procreating, but in the event that I do, I won't be spanking. However, I like Lou's method of smacking the hand. Doesn't really hurt, but it would be just annoying enough to get their attention.

Cait

"If a kid asks where rain comes from, I think a cute thing to tell him is ‘God is crying’. And if he asks why God is crying, another cute thing to tell him is ‘Probably because of something you did’."
- Jack Handey, Deep Thoughts
Lab Assistant
#28 Old 14th Sep 2009 at 8:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1ove
Good for you, but I don't know anything in the world about you.

1. Where do you live?
2. Are you a parent?
3. Why did they beat you?
4. When was this?
5. Why are you so vague about it? Smiling? "What's life experience to you? A father beating his child?"


1. California.
2. No
3. For anything and everything
4. When I was younger, stopped around age 9
5. I was just being cynical

Honestly, no one should be telling a parent how to raise their child. "Spanking" has been common practice since the dawn of man and this movement to stop this is only fairly recent.

Personally, I don't think I would ever hit my child in any way. But there are so many ways of parenting that I always get very suspicious when people start deciding the "best" way to parent. I really think that's one of the problems with society today: people think they know what's best for everybody when, clearly, they only know what's worked for them and others close to them. To top it off, they start imposing these beliefs on others in the name of "family values."

I grew up in such an unorthodox way and I know I'm not the only one. How many people here can honestly say their families lived up to every standard society decides to set? I was beat by my parents; most people in this country would have called it child abuse and called some child protection agency. My parents worked all day so I was home alone most of the time; I was like if I saw them for 2 hours a day. Lastly, my parents made me work. Again, most people would have screamed "child labor!"

I don't consider myself disillusioned with reality and I honestly think I grew up fine. I think I'm doing very well for myself. Underneath all of that beating and "child labor," there were lessons to learn. Like for example... hardiness?

But what if some people came over and started screaming "you can't do that!"? I wouldn't be the same person I am today. I might be the same annoying, jerk kid I was back then. Who knows!

Basically, my point is you can't know what's best for everyone. Every culture on this planet does their parenting differently and who are you to tell them what's best? There are some bad parents out there who abuse their kids - those parents need to be taken care of. As for the rest of them, I say mind people need to mind their own business.

If you were a Sim, would anybody want to play you?
Scholar
Original Poster
#29 Old 14th Sep 2009 at 8:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WCF
Honestly, no one should be telling a parent how to raise their child. "Spanking" has been common practice since the dawn of man and this movement to stop this is only fairly recent.


You are already saying what I have already put down. Also, I noted that the movement is going backwards — many parents (at least in this country) would like to see spanking come back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WCF
Personally, I don't think I would ever hit my child in any way. But there are so many ways of parenting that I always get very suspicious when people start deciding the "best" way to parent. I really think that's one of the problems with society today: people think they know what's best for everybody when, clearly, they only know what's worked for them and others close to them. To top it off, they start imposing these beliefs on others in the name of "family values."

I grew up in such an unorthodox way and I know I'm not the only one. I was beat by my parents; most people in this country would have called it child abuse and called some child protection agency. My parents worked all day so I was home alone most of the time; I was like if I saw them for 2 hours a day. Lastly, my parents made me work. Again, most people would have screamed "child labor!"


I have also already addressed this. I do not live a life like most people. People are different. Quite frankly, I only saw my parents in the mornings as well and they always harassed us about working, too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WCF
I don't consider myself disillusioned with reality and I honestly think I grew up fine. I think I'm doing very well for myself. Underneath all of that beating and "child labor," there were lessons to learn.

But what if some people came over and started screaming "you can't do that!"? I wouldn't be the same person I am today. I might be the same annoying, jerk kid I was back then. Who knows!

Basically, my point is you can't know what's best for everyone. Every culture on this planet does their parenting differently and who are you to tell them what's best? There are some bad parents out there who abuse their kids - those parents need to be taken care of. As for the rest of them, I say mind people need to mind their own business.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 1ove
It depends on how bad your parents did it, as I've already stated. Compared to everyone else, ours were two steps away from being murderers. Maybe they just gave you a light rap on the head, as my grandparents did. Maybe they explained it to you. Maybe you really did do bad things. I was being too vague.

Good luck with raising your kids.


As I've also already stated, I don't know what you were doing. Did you really deserve it? You don't state why they beat you; maybe you really were a bad kid. Tila "Tequila" Nguyen was raped, got a tattoo, did heroin, stole cars, ditched school, smoked cigarettes, and drank alcohol — all before the age of fifteen. Her dad beat her when she went to jail — twice. We've never done anything worth a tinker and our parents just SMACKSMACKSMACK!.
Undead Molten Llama
#30 Old 14th Sep 2009 at 8:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1ove
I have also already addressed this. I do not live a life like most people. People are different. Quite frankly, I only saw my parents in the mornings as well and they always harassed us about working, too.


In general, I think this is a backlash against the perceived "permissiveness" of the more current parenting styles (Here in the US, that is.). There was a big anti-spanking movement that seemed to hit especially in the 80s, on the theory that spanking taught violence and damaged self-esteem. Some parents took this to an extreme, not disciplining at all, and their children tended to run wild and were bothersome to other children and to other people in general. Hence, things now seem to be generally swinging the other way. People who were older but not yet parents in the 80s (like me) saw the brats running wild, and they think spanking is the cure. Trouble is, they're not entirely right, so I fear that there's a lot of "reflex" spanking out there: Your kid does something you don't like and you get pissed off and then WHACK! That's unproductive. But spanking done in what IMO is the "right may" be the right answer for some children. For others, other strategies might work. It depends on both the children and the parents. One size doesn't fit all.

I'm mostly found on (and mostly upload to) Tumblr these days because, alas, there are only 24 hours in a day.
Muh Simblr! | An index of my downloads on Tumblr.
Scholar
Original Poster
#31 Old 14th Sep 2009 at 8:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iCad
In general, I think this is a backlash against the perceived "permissiveness" of the more current parenting styles (Here in the US, that is.). There was a big anti-spanking movement that seemed to hit especially in the 80s, on the theory that spanking taught violence and damaged self-esteem. Some parents took this to an extreme, not disciplining at all, and their children tended to run wild and were bothersome to other children and to other people in general. Hence, things now seem to be generally swinging the other way. People who were older but not yet parents in the 80s (like me) saw the brats running wild, and they think spanking is the cure. Trouble is, they're not entirely right, so I fear that there's a lot of "reflex" spanking out there: Your kid does something you don't like and you get pissed off and then WHACK! That's unproductive. But spanking done in what IMO is the "right may" be the right answer for some children. For others, other strategies might work. It depends on both the children and the parents. One size doesn't fit all.


Nothing new, actually. I have said it does depend on individual cases and severity.

My head just exploded. So when the spanked victims grew up and then they learned that their parents had done that to them, they turn around and try to "get rid" of it? "The government isn't going to tell us how to raise our children." While GOV is a serious business, they don't care about personal relationships much. At least they can't take that from you.

As I told my sister, "It's so messed up. One's too good and one's too bad."
Undead Molten Llama
#32 Old 14th Sep 2009 at 8:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1ove
My head just exploded. So when the spanked victims grew up and then they learned that their parents had done that to them, they turn around and try to "get rid" of it? "


It wasn't so much that spanked children found anything out, so much as acknowledged parenting "experts" and child psychologists started loudly poo-pooing spanking, linking it, for example, to rising crime rates and such. First-time parents will often look to the "experts," and so the prevailing attitude toward spanking shifted toward one of horror across the board instead of it being seen as a valid disciplinary device in some cases and under certain circumstances. More public awareness of the whole phenomenon of child abuse -- which isn't the same thing, of course -- also contributed to this change in attitude, I think.

But then the results of decreased discipline started popping up -- more annoying children who got into more trouble -- and the next crop of parents those of us like me who became parents in the 90s, started to look at things a little differently, I think.

I'm mostly found on (and mostly upload to) Tumblr these days because, alas, there are only 24 hours in a day.
Muh Simblr! | An index of my downloads on Tumblr.
Alchemist
#33 Old 14th Sep 2009 at 9:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1ove

This happened to me, except I was five. Ma got mad about me cutting up the bedsheets. Dad came home and beat the living shit out of me in the bathroom. Two weeks later, I did it again. Came home, called her stupid, and she got a big wooden stick with feathers attached to it (Asian style!) and beat me in a polo and skirt on the floor. I never learned.




You must have liked pain, I did not. I never wanted to experience that kind of pain ever again. I guess as Lou said it depends on the child,although I can't imagine any child wanting to experience the beating I took twice
Lab Assistant
#34 Old 14th Sep 2009 at 9:35 PM Last edited by WCF : 14th Sep 2009 at 9:47 PM.
1ove you wanted to know who I was. I'm pretty sure we come from the same cultural, southeast Asian style background.

As for the cultural movement going backwards, I've never seen the sort. I live 200 miles north of you and I read the newspaper all the time. The general consensus always seemed to be that spanking is bad. Just thought I'd offer another view.

Your experiences really do sound the same as mine. You mentioned "Asian style" beatings with sticks for petty things like cutting up the bed (mines used clothes hangers).

My own parents beat me for some pretty petty stuff, like when I refused help on homework or if I would accidentally break something. I'd agree with you here that that is wrong. You also mention talking crap to your parents, calling them stupid and such. I did the same thing sometimes and got beat just the same (rightfully so, imo). The worst things I ever did was sneak out of the house to play basketball or forge some homework thing.

You have to understand that these situations aren't black and white. In my experience, some punishments were deserved and some weren't. But (and I may be assuming here) you suggest that spanking in general and as a whole should be banned. But then what about those situations that are deserved? What about the kids who just got the petty "slap in the hand?" Are you really going to take away those parents' options because of the other parents who screw it up?

Also, you say that you don't know anyone who has benefited from spanking, but I know plenty of people that think they are the better for it. Anecdotal evidence here. Like I said before, everyone is different - it's unfair to legislate on other people based solely on your own experiences. By the way, you said you addressed this, but I don't see it. If you realize people are different, why would you want such a general law imposed on such diverse people?

I personally don't like the physical punishments. I wouldn't use them myself. But I understand some parents find it necessary to use them. The problem is that some parents take it too far. But you shouldn't counteract this problem with a law that goes too far itself. I'm all for more of a cultural movement to stop spanking; make it socially unacceptable to hit a child (like it already is starting to be). But no law so general and so subjective should be imposed on people.

If you were a Sim, would anybody want to play you?
Lab Assistant
#35 Old 14th Sep 2009 at 9:41 PM
My boyfriend and I have discussed this in detail and came to this conclusion... it's quite simple actually:

Certain children require different types of discipline. Some respond to spanking, some respond to a talking to plus restrictions on favorite things, and some respond to full-on grounding. I've known many bratty children in my life that were only grounded... they probably needed a good bop on the butt.

It's not a "crime" or "wrong" to spank a child, as long as it's done realistically. Does a child really need more than 2-4 smacks? No.

IMO, it's common sense, but it's another issue turned into an ethics debate. =P
Field Researcher
#36 Old 14th Sep 2009 at 9:48 PM
Ethics aside, psychologically speaking, positive reinforcement is always much more effective than punishment. You're much more likely to get the behavior you want if you reinforce the positive rather than focusing on punishing the negative.

Cait

"If a kid asks where rain comes from, I think a cute thing to tell him is ‘God is crying’. And if he asks why God is crying, another cute thing to tell him is ‘Probably because of something you did’."
- Jack Handey, Deep Thoughts
Scholar
#37 Old 14th Sep 2009 at 9:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WCF
1ove you wanted to know who I was. I'm pretty sure we come from the same cultural, southeast Asian style background.

As for the cultural movement going backwards, I've never seen the sort. I live 200 miles north of you and I read the newspaper all the time. The general consensus always seemed to be that spanking is bad. Just thought I'd offer another view.

Your experiences really do sound the same as mine. You mentioned "Asian style" beatings with sticks for petty things like cutting up the bed (mines used clothes hangers).

My own parents beat me for some pretty petty stuff, like when I refused help on homework or if I would accidentally break something. I'd agree with you here that that is wrong. You also mention talking crap to your parents, calling them stupid and such. I did the same thing sometimes and got beat just the same (rightfully so, imo).

You have to understand that these situations aren't black and white. In my experience, some punishments were deserved and some weren't. But (and I may be assuming here) you suggest that spanking in general and as a whole should be banned. But then what about those situations that are deserved? What about the kids who just got the petty "slap in the hand?" Are you really going to take away those parents' options because of the other parents who screw it up?

Also, you say that you don't know anyone who has benefited from spanking, but I know plenty of people that think they are the better for it. Anecdotal evidence here. Like I said before, everyone is different - it's unfair to legislate on other people based solely on your own experiences. By the way, you said you addressed this, but I don't see it. If you realize people are different, why would you want such a general law imposed on such diverse people?

I personally don't like the physical punishments. I wouldn't use them myself. But I understand some parents find it necessary to use them. The problem is that some parents take it too far. But you shouldn't counteract this problem with a law that goes too far itself. I'm all for more of a cultural movement to stop spanking; make it socially unacceptable to hit a child (like it already is starting to be). But no law so general and so subjective should be imposed on people.

Her the law simply forbids it. Not because it doesn't happen.. but to protect children from those who do it too much. One spank won't get your children away from you.. but repeatedly doing so can get your trouble. Your supposed to do it better than that.
People often think the way they were raised was the best if they turn our well. Unless they really hated it at home. Wether it included spanking or not, certain rituals, religion, big city attitude, small town attitude. Humans tend to have a conservative nature, if it works, many keep doing it.
If people turn out ending up in misery young some parents still copy. Teen moms often get teen mom or teen dad kids. The problem is most people just have one example to copy from. If you were a wild redneck teen mom and you raise your kid like you were raised.. expect a teen mom or dad too. If you don't mind, no problem, if you do mind.. try find a different way.


"When the moon is in the seventh house
And Jupiter aligns with Mars
Then peace will guide the planets
And love will steer the stars"
Scholar
Original Poster
#38 Old 14th Sep 2009 at 9:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WCF
1ove you wanted to know who I was. I'm pretty sure we come from the same cultural, southeast Asian style background.

As for the cultural movement going backwards, I've never seen the sort. I live 200 miles north of you and I read the newspaper all the time. The general consensus always seemed to be that spanking is bad. Just thought I'd offer another view.

Your experiences really do sound the same as mine. You mentioned "Asian style" beatings with sticks for petty things like cutting up the bed (mines used clothes hangers).

My own parents beat me for some pretty petty stuff, like when I refused help on homework or if I would accidentally break something. I'd agree with you here that that is wrong. You also mention talking crap to your parents, calling them stupid and such. I did the same thing sometimes and got beat just the same (rightfully so, imo). The worst things I ever did was sneak out of the house to play basketball or forge some homework thing.

You have to understand that these situations aren't black and white. In my experience, some punishments were deserved and some weren't. But (and I may be assuming here) you suggest that spanking in general and as a whole should be banned. But then what about those situations that are deserved? What about the kids who just got the petty "slap in the hand?" Are you really going to take away those parents' options because of the other parents who screw it up?

Also, you say that you don't know anyone who has benefited from spanking, but I know plenty of people that think they are the better for it. Anecdotal evidence here. Like I said before, everyone is different - it's unfair to legislate on other people based solely on your own experiences. By the way, you said you addressed this, but I don't see it. If you realize people are different, why would you want such a general law imposed on such diverse people?

I personally don't like the physical punishments. I wouldn't use them myself. But I understand some parents find it necessary to use them. The problem is that some parents take it too far. But you shouldn't counteract this problem with a law that goes too far itself. I'm all for more of a cultural movement to stop spanking; make it socially unacceptable to hit a child (like it already is starting to be). But no law so general and so subjective should be imposed on people.


I had suspected this, that you were a Vietnamese (or Cambodian, or whatever, but it's irrelevant either way) guy who had also suffered many of the same issues.

You are indeed making a giant assumption! I did say that it depends on what the kid does. If you do get a tattoo illegally or go to jail in high school, that would justify it. I think any parent would feel the need to beat the crap out of their kids if they were like Tila. I'm not saying, "Oh, drop it! Just let all the kids go and don't hit them for anything, ever, ever, because I'm always right."

Many people also think their parents are better for not having hit them. So what?

How many times have we said in this thread that it's different for different people? People are different. People want different things. I think we can all agree on that much, yes.

There is no law to "stop" them. There is not even a law put forth to try and halt it. I am aware that many people are trying to "move on" and stop hitting. However, I'm referring to the group that wants to go backwards. The group wants to go back to the old days and beat their kids for everything. The movement has two directions now. For some reason, it seems like you think I want more than what I'm saying right now. I would agree that if society would just calm down, that'd be great.

Quote:
Originally Posted by girlgeek19
Ethics aside, psychologically speaking, positive reinforcement is always much more effective than punishment. You're much more likely to get the behavior you want if you reinforce the positive rather than focusing on punishing the negative.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanito
Her the law simply forbids it. Not because it doesn't happen.. but to protect children from those who do it too much. One spank won't get your children away from you.. but repeatedly doing so can get your trouble. Your supposed to do it better than that.
People often think the way they were raised was the best if they turn our well. Unless they really hated it at home. Wether it included spanking or not, certain rituals, religion, big city attitude, small town attitude. Humans tend to have a conservative nature, if it works, many keep doing it.
If people turn out ending up in misery young some parents still copy. Teen moms often get teen mom or teen dad kids. The problem is most people just have one example to copy from. If you were a wild redneck teen mom and you raise your kid like you were raised.. expect a teen mom or dad too. If you don't mind, no problem, if you do mind.. try find a different way.


People are afraid of the unknown and unfamiliar. Not much has changed from those days when we would be burned at stake for being different. We've modernized and tried to cover up, but people and their attitudes have not shifted enough.

Thank you.
Lab Assistant
#39 Old 14th Sep 2009 at 9:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by girlgeek19
Ethics aside, psychologically speaking, positive reinforcement is always much more effective than punishment. You're much more likely to get the behavior you want if you reinforce the positive rather than focusing on punishing the negative.


Of course. There is a certain point though where something has to be done, in my opinion. Most of the "bratty kids" I described above never got that positive reinforcement either, so who really knows. I think it's really a personal, kid by kid, subjective thing.
Lab Assistant
#40 Old 14th Sep 2009 at 10:04 PM
I'm Cambodian.

Sorry. For some reason, I thought you were saying that spanking in general was bad and should be banned.

If you were a Sim, would anybody want to play you?
Field Researcher
#41 Old 14th Sep 2009 at 10:06 PM
A memory that sticks out for me: When I was about four years old, I was visiting my cousins when some type of big wildcat got in the house. I remember this scared me so much I wet the bed. In the morning, my uncle found out and beat me until my back was bleeding.

I really think that spanking/hitting is a barbaric practice only done out the anger belonging to the parents. Like 1ove, I've been abused by parents (primarily my mother). It seems like an easy way out for people who aren't patient enough to be parents who don't know how to teach children lessons in a nonviolent way.

Quote:
"I'm tired of the excuses everybody uses/He's your kid, do as you see fit/But get this through that I don't approve of what you do to your own flesh and blood ... I want to say, "What's the matter here?"/But I don't dare say..."
Mad Poster
#42 Old 14th Sep 2009 at 10:17 PM
Frankly, I'm not sure what parents hope to accomplish through physical violence as far as discippline goes. Hit them often enough and they'll get used to it, or worse, fight back or ignore it altogether.
Scholar
Original Poster
#43 Old 14th Sep 2009 at 10:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by crocobaura
Frankly, I'm not sure what parents hope to accomplish through physical violence as far as discippline goes. Hit them often enough and they'll get used to it, or worse, fight back or ignore it altogether.


Eventually, I began to do this as well. When my father tried it again when I was twelve and in seventh grade, we were basically playing wrestle in the living room. Imagine that! Asian man fights his very own disobedient daughter! Then it's even worse when you don't explain why you did it or it's something too trivial and stupid (especially if "everyone else does it"); they will ignore it.

The whole thing (especially our experiences) sounds so funny now, but when it happened, it was just horrifying and even creepy. They said we threatened them, but I always felt like it was the other way around. To this day, I still get an uneasy feeling in the pit of my stomach whenever I think about stuff like this. It seems so sad and dark for me. I would hate to see kids raised the way we were.
Undead Molten Llama
#44 Old 14th Sep 2009 at 10:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by clockworkapple
I really think that spanking/hitting is a barbaric practice only done out the anger belonging to the parents. Like 1ove, I've been abused by parents (primarily my mother). It seems like an easy way out for people who aren't patient enough to be parents who don't know how to teach children lessons in a nonviolent way.


While this may certainly be true of many parents, I can honestly say that it isn't true of me. Like I said, the rules of my household are known; the consequences of breaking them are known as well. I never spanked in anger. If I felt angry, I took however long it took to cool down before going it to give the kid the consequence he/she would expect. Sometimes, that took as long as half an hour. The kid went to his/her room to wait until then. Hitting someone in anger is, IMO, "violence." Spanking isn't, really. Not, at least, in the context in which I administer it. It is the prescribed effect of a cause, known by all parties in my household.

This waiting to cool down apparently had more of an effect than I thought, though! Not long ago, when I was talking to my son about spanking (He's too old to be spanked now), he told me something like, "Ma, it wasn't the spanking that I was afraid of. Didn't even hurt. It was the waiting for the spanking that was killer! I'm so going to remember that when I have kids!"

I can understand people who've been abused finding spanking abhorrent. I really do. And, indeed, uncontrolled spanking for no reason or for petty reasons is, IMO, wrong. But when used properly, it can work on certain kids. It's just that it's a parental weapon that is often wielded badly, unfortunately.

I'm mostly found on (and mostly upload to) Tumblr these days because, alas, there are only 24 hours in a day.
Muh Simblr! | An index of my downloads on Tumblr.
Scholar
Original Poster
#45 Old 14th Sep 2009 at 10:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iCad
While this may certainly be true of many parents, I can honestly say that it isn't true of me. Like I said, the rules of my household are known; the consequences of breaking them are known as well. I never spanked in anger. If I felt angry, I took however long it took to cool down before going it to give the kid the consequence he/she would expect. Sometimes, that took as long as half an hour. The kid went to his/her room to wait until then. Hitting someone in anger is, IMO, "violence." Spanking isn't, really. Not, at least, in the context in which I administer it. It is the prescribed effect of a cause, known by all parties in my household.

This waiting to cool down apparently had more of an effect than I thought, though! Not long ago, when I was talking to my son about spanking (He's too old to be spanked now), he told me something like, "Ma, it wasn't the spanking that I was afraid of. Didn't even hurt. It was the waiting for the spanking that was killer! I'm so going to remember that when I have kids!"

I can understand people who've been abused finding spanking abhorrent. I really do. And, indeed, uncontrolled spanking for no reason or for petty reasons is, IMO, wrong. But when used properly, it can work on certain kids. It's just that it's a parental weapon that is often wielded badly, unfortunately.


It seems like this now:

GROUP A:
The ones who were suffered extreme and severe (unfair) punishments. Group B, we don't know about them, we had it way worse.

GROUP B: A light thwack/tap is fine, as long as it can be explained. Group A is bullshit making us look bad because minor physical punishments are fine.

As for B, I can't comment, seems like me, Steven (the boy from Shanghai I referenced in my first post), WCF, and clockworkapple are A's.
Mad Poster
#46 Old 14th Sep 2009 at 10:33 PM
My parents only spanked on the rarest of occasions, and the misbehaviors were things akin to crossing the street without holding hands and wandering away from my mother in the store- things that could be extremely detrimental to mine or my siblings' safety and therefore necessitated the clearest punishment possible. I could count the number of times I was spanked on one hand, and it stopped before I turned five because I learned to know better and was able to reason more rationally, but one thing's for sure- the message came through loud and clear because it was such a rare punishment. Spanking was akin to when the middle names were invoked, in my household- we knew that mom and dad were really mad if they pulled out the middle name, and the same went for spanking.

I can't honestly say what I'll do when I have my own children, but I like to think that I'll follow my parents' example, if necessary- I can't say that spanking will be an effective punishment because all children are inherently different. Spanking should only be used in very rare situations in which it is imperative that the child understands why he/she should not do the thing that he/she is being spanked for; too much spanking makes it lose the quality that made it so jarring to me. However, I don't think that I'll spank my children in public- I don't like to see it, and I certainly don't want to be the one to cause it. More often than not, the child looks utterly humiliated, and a public venue is neither the time nor the place to cause such a disturbance.

As has been said, certain children require certain types of discipline. It was brought up that time-outs are ineffectual, but in my experience, time-outs were the best way to get through to me, whereas my older brother and sister responded best to having a privilege taken away. If it is an effective punishment for my childre, I'm not opposed to spanking, but only once in a blue moon- I think that, in most circumstances, it's better to teach a child to reason with their words.

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Scholar
#47 Old 14th Sep 2009 at 10:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by girlgeek19
Ethics aside, psychologically speaking, positive reinforcement is always much more effective than punishment. You're much more likely to get the behavior you want if you reinforce the positive rather than focusing on punishing the negative.

I agree on that. Reward your kids when they behave and most will listen. Goes for adults too, criminals go back to jail less when they are offered a job, can help at a project - get something to be proud of.
Pride is also in human nature. People like to feel good about themselves.


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Lab Assistant
#48 Old 14th Sep 2009 at 11:08 PM
I read some opinions here which I admire. For instance, the mother who forces herself to cool down in order not to hit her kids in anger. I'm not a parent yet and therefore can't really imagine how badly kids can try your patience.
There are also some views which make me worry. After all, I think we should never forget that no one has the right to hurt a weaker creature, be it a dog, a woman or a child. Of course, an occasional and light spank on the butt or hand doesn’t hurt and nearly everyone loses their temper at times. Nevertheless, hitting someone in the face is abasing and causing real pain as a common reaction to disobedience is disgusting.
Why would you hit a child who is too young to understand why you’re hurting it? And why would you hit a child who is old enough to be talked to and who actually can understand that it has made a mistake?
Scholar
#49 Old 14th Sep 2009 at 11:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iCad
While this may certainly be true of many parents, I can honestly say that it isn't true of me. Like I said, the rules of my household are known; the consequences of breaking them are known as well. I never spanked in anger. If I felt angry, I took however long it took to cool down before going it to give the kid the consequence he/she would expect. Sometimes, that took as long as half an hour. The kid went to his/her room to wait until then. Hitting someone in anger is, IMO, "violence." Spanking isn't, really. Not, at least, in the context in which I administer it. It is the prescribed effect of a cause, known by all parties in my household.


I was going to write something along these lines. There's a big difference between beating your kids because you're angry and spanking them to discipline them. I'm okay with spanking. Not only are all kids different. All parents are different as well. Even if it IS possible to discipline difficult kids without spanking, the degree of finesse and quick-thinking it takes doesn't come naturally to every parent. In those cases, sometimes spanking is the best solution given the parent and child.


However, beating your child, hitting them in anger, and getting off on their abject submission => always bad.

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Undead Molten Llama
#50 Old 15th Sep 2009 at 12:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by robokitty
However, beating your child, hitting them in anger, and getting off on their abject submission => always bad.


Absolutely. There is a huge difference between that and properly disciplining children. Heck, I take it a step further: I try not to yell at my kids in anger, even. Admittedly, I'm not perfect at this because I'm a human being and sometimes things slip out. I always apologize later, when the situation has resolved. I just don't believe that doing anything in an angry state is productive. Rational discussion where the kid can express him/herself (if they're old enough for that) works better. In fact, after a spanking in my house, there is always a discussion, in case the kid isn't clear as to why he/she ended up with a spanking.

The benefit is that my kids and I often have long talks even when they're not in trouble. They know they can ask or tell me anything, and I won't get angry about it. Or at least, if I do, I won't yell. I'll cool off first and then we'll talk. It works a lot better, I've found.

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