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Inventor
#51 Old 18th Feb 2010 at 9:06 PM
Quote: Originally posted by urisStar
There is no race category for people other then the human race, and by finding the need to break it down into skin color just makes the intent questionable. People are all up in arm about a situation that was solely created by human beings to get the upper hand on other human beings. The ones that started this evil game are now whining because the repercussion of their need/deeds to feel superior has come back to bite them on the butt, so now they want to walk it backwards only to fine that that their own history is accusatory.

Justice is now a bad word as people let their fears get the better of them because of their ugly history while still bemoaning peace. To say get over it only show that not much of the attitudes and behaviors of those who have put this game into play in the first place, has not change, as peace requires justice, they only work together and maybe there is where the real fear comes from.

Have anyone ever tried to make flesh color that resembles those who are so-called white? It takes more than white paint to get it right and if you don’t add some black to the orange, white, pink and sometimes a little green and or red, you end up with a mess as its true consistency to what you are trying to come up with. Food for thought!

By the way, surely it is common knowledge that when you die everyone ends up black in the end and there is not much you can do about it, talk about justice!


Quote: Originally posted by urisStar
Breeds of dogs are classified differently than humans and their classifications and sub-groupings are given more substance than color, hair texture and head/skull measurement.

There are no different races of people, there are different cultures as in society, mores, background, traditions, customs, way of life, and ethnicity speaks to culture, having the same meaning as culture.

The term race as in different races/racial grouping has been problematic from a scientific point of view as it is from a social one. The feeling is that the term has no biological validity; others use the term to specify only a partially isolated reproductive population whose members share a considerable degree of genetic similarity.

“In certain broader or less technical senses the term RACE is sometimes used interchangeably with the term PEOPLE. PEOPLE REFER to a body of persons united usually by common interests, ideals, or culture but sometimes also by a common history, language, or ethnic character: We are one people; the peoples of the world; the Swedish people. NATION refers to a body of persons living under an organized government or rule, occupying a defined area, and acting as a unit in matters of peace and war: the English nation.”

“ European physical anthropologists of the 17th and 18th centuries proposed various systems of racial classifications based on such observable characteristics as skin color, hair type, body proportions, and skull measurements, essentially codifying the perceived differences among broad geographic populations of humans. The traditional terms for these populations—Caucasoid (or Caucasian), Mongoloid, Negroid, and in some systems Australoid—are now controversial in both technical and nontechnical usage, and in some cases they may well be considered offensive. (Caucasian does retain a certain currency in American English, but it is used almost exclusively to mean "white" or "European" rather than "belonging to the Caucasian race," a group that includes a variety of peoples generally categorized as nonwhite.) The biological aspect of race is described today not in observable physical features but rather in such genetic characteristics as blood groups and metabolic processes, and the groupings indicated by these factors seldom coincide very neatly with those put forward by earlier physical anthropologists. Citing this and other points—such as the fact that a person who is considered black in one society might be nonblack in another—many cultural anthropologists now consider race to be more a social/communal/community or mental/psychological construct/erected/created than an objective biological fact.”

In my own words: Racial Grouping has been nothing but a psych scheme to puff up men of little to no self-esteem and a promotional tool to justify slavery, Jim Crow and the rest of that ugly/nasty behavior, pure and simple!

Source: reference.com


Thank you.
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Lab Assistant
#52 Old 19th Feb 2010 at 3:55 AM
Quote: Originally posted by SuicidiaParasidia
and some black people have lynched, murdered, and physically or psychologically abused white people. your point?



My family have white friends,and they are as good as gold! But Everyone knows that White people who are Racist,are the Worse!They have something against every race that is not like them.Even Jews who look just like they do.I mean what other race talks about having a pure race!I mean how can you have a pure race with all the raping and sneaking around going on back in the day when the Black Americans were bought,sold,and bred like animals.It's too late for that pure race now.

SuicidiaParasidia what is your point!Yes Some black people have murdered,and Physically or psychologically abused white people.But the part about the Lynching.I have never heard of a black person lynching a white,and If they did you will never hear the end of it.But I have heard of whites lynching whites who tried to help black people,and for other things not worth getting hanged over.They would lynch now if they could get away with it,but these days we (black americans)have weapons and we fight back,and there are laws.I'm not talking about all white people,because some white people will not tolerate Racism,and they don't go for all that pure race crap,and beating up someone because they are gay,or of a different race.I mean can't we all just get along?

Don't be someone's...Down-time,spare-time,part-time,or sometime.
If they can't be there for you all the time,then they're not even worth your time!!!
Instructor
#53 Old 19th Feb 2010 at 6:04 AM
Hate and fear breeds more hate and fear. That's all it is.
Test Subject
#54 Old 19th Feb 2010 at 7:51 AM
Quote: Originally posted by HaphazardSim
YIKES!!! If you really believe this you need to go back to school and this time pay attention. Humans are not just the same species we are the same sub-species, so if I'm a poodle, guess what?? Everyone else on thie website is a poodle...



I don't think that was the principle/point of that quote.

Moreover, having lived in central america out of NYC, there's still a KKK there and like 90% of the whites there were racist.
It was shocking and scary coming from a place where my friends were filipino, russian, polish, brazilian, puerto rican, ethiopian...i didn't notice their nationality until I really thought about it. But this person knows what they're saying-There aren't different races, only different cultures.

And sure, AMERICAN caucasians in mostly central and southern america seem to have a culture of hate against differences (not all)...But not all caucasians are like that, definitely not all. It all has to do with INFLUENCE and ENVIRONMENT, it is not in their blood to hate...they are taught to think a certain way, and vice versa with other "races"

So they started the racism/hate, and its only human nature to hate back.

What they did to the native americans is gruesome...and then kidnapped africans from their country and used them like the toilet paper they wipe their asses with...I feel rreally bad.
Yeah its in the history they say... But it was only like 35 years ago.
Just like the Holocaust which targeted mainly jewish but any non-nazi actually.
it's not in the history if there's still a KKK and segregation, not forced segregation..but anyone who lives in America knows that the blacks and whites or chinese or whatever never live in the same area. Theres so many cases where the wrong person is enjailed on account of their race.

These things leave scars on peoples hearts and minds, it isn't black & white. These peaceful and sweet things are easy to say...like "why can't we be friends?" but most humans don't work like that...I do work like that though.

I'm Indian, I've experienced so much racism-all from random white people. It's actually really sad because I have no idea why they'd hate me. It's a lack of knowledge and a bunch of arrogance.

But I'm still not racist, every guy I ever dated was white, and I have a lot of white friends, not that kind of white though. lol
Banned
#55 Old 19th Feb 2010 at 10:51 AM
Quote: Originally posted by burberry
..but anyone who lives in America knows that the blacks and whites or chinese or whatever never live in the same area.


I'm from America and I know that what is quoted is a false statement. Many of my friends that are white live in predominately black areas, much of the city I live in here in the south has many people of many races living in the same community/neighborhood/apartment complex/etc.
Mad Poster
#56 Old 19th Feb 2010 at 2:55 PM
What about the blacks in Africa who sold their own people into slavery? It isn't just whites, and it isn't only whites who can be "racist." What about the Arabs involved in the slave trade?

Yes, we are all human beings. But there are three major races. Is it really hateful to say that? NO.

I prefer to be with other whites. Does that mean I hate blacks? Again, a resounding NO.

What I do hate is Thought Police telling me what I should think.
Scholar
#57 Old 19th Feb 2010 at 3:59 PM
Quote: Originally posted by SimMegaptera
The modern academic definition of racism seems to be that it requires (a) hatred and (b) systematic oppression by someone who is in control of the situation.

*snip*


I'm so glad to see this post on the first page of this discussion because it really is the key distinction in "racism" against white people vs. "racism" against black people.



Privilege is Driving a Smooth Road and Not Knowing It


The more privileged you are, the easier it is to envision human beings as pure individuals, unconnected to other individuals in any way that matters.

It sometimes puzzles conservatives that progressives are so concerned with what people think. What is racism, sexism, homophobia, etc, after all, other than a way some people think about some other people? And as long as I’m free to pursue my own self-interest, what does it matter what others think of me?

For someone with a lot of privilege, the rational answer is, “it doesn’t matter at all.” The more privileged you are, the less other people’s thoughts count. You go into a store, and you buy what you want, or you don’t buy. You don’t have to worry about what the store clerks think of you - what could matter less?

It matters if you’re a black woman like Debbie Allen, the very successful producer and choreographer. When she walks into a store, it matters what the clerks think of her - because those clerks might decide to refuse to sell her anything (she obviously can’t afford it). This isn’t a hypothetical situation - it really happened. Just as it really happened to Patricia Williams (a very successful lawyer who is a black woman), who once visited a high-end retail store - and the clerk refused to even buzz her in.

Those are small examples, but they illustrate what I mean. To someone with a lot of privilege, what strangers think is irrelevant. To someone in a less privileged position, what strangers think of you determines what kind of access you get to the complex network of relationships that make up our society and our economy. When strangers often think less of you because of your sex or race, you have less access to the material benefits of our society and economy.

People with more privilege, in contrast, can easily imagine that they are independent. A big mark of privilege is that social and economic networks tend to facilitate goals, rather than block them. This makes it easier to ignore the social and economic networks around us; and it makes it easier for the privileged to imagine their accomplishments are the result of their own pure merit. Imagine two roads: one smooth, well-paved, well-maintained, the other lumpy and full of cracks and pits. Most people will drive over the smooth road without even noticing it - but that doesn’t mean that the smooth road hasn’t facilitated their driving. Nor does it mean that the person driving on the smooth road has more merit, as a driver, than someone stuck on pothole avenue.

The feminist and anti-racist view of the world - in which people are not independent but interlinked, and therefore what others think matters in very real and concrete ways - is much more realistic. No one is independent; we all rely on a network of social and economic ties to tens of thousands of strangers, just to get through a single day. (Who grew the food you eat? Who paved the road you take to work? Who decided to offer you your job? Who decided to offer - or not offer - you a residence where you now live? You didn’t do all these things yourself.)

Of course, everyone - regardless of race and sex - will hit occasional bumps on the road. And everyone, white men included, has put out some sort of effort to get where they got. But when the folks on the smoother road go faster and further, let’s not pretend it’s because they’re better drivers.

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Mad Poster
#58 Old 19th Feb 2010 at 4:22 PM
It may very well be because they are better drivers.

And with this "universal equality" stuff, the not-so-good drivers whine that the better drivers keep them down, when the fact is, they're not as good at driving.

Take me and my sister. We are not equal. Equal in human worth, yes, but she was in special education while I was in the accelerated classes. She has to accept the fact that there are things that she won't be able to excel in--and she has to do the things she CAN do. She's always been jealous of me, and it felt like I had to hold back so she would feel more on par with me. It's like I had to feel ashamed to be able to do more things than she could.

See where I'm going with this? "White pride" is a dirty phrase nowadays. You have to be ashamed to be white or YOU'RE RACIST! (Now I am not saying go the KKK route. They're extremists.)

I'm not afraid of being called a racist because I refuse to play these stupid mind games. I won't let Thought Police determine what I think. Race realism is not based on ignorance, but on experience. I used to live in the Detroit area. I am much happier in rural Ohio.

I am not ashamed to be white, nor am I ashamed of the Amerind ancestry that I have.

I am, however, tired of being falsely accused of hate. I don't hate anyone. It's a mind game--if you're not politically correct, then you're hateful.

I'm also tired of the "blame whitey" mindset. I guess "personal responsibility" is a foreign concept to these types.
Inventor
#59 Old 19th Feb 2010 at 10:15 PM
Quote: Originally posted by robokitty
Originally Posted by SimMegaptera
The modern academic definition of racism seems to be that it requires (a) hatred and (b) systematic oppression by someone who is in control of the situation.

*snip*
so glad to see this post on the first page of this discussion because it really is the key distinction in "racism" against white people vs. "racism" against black people.



Privilege is Driving a Smooth Road and Not Knowing It


The more privileged you are, the easier it is to envision human beings as pure individuals, unconnected to other individuals in any way that matters.

It sometimes puzzles conservatives that progressives are so concerned with what people think. What is racism, sexism, homophobia, etc, after all, other than a way some people think about some other people? And as long as I’m free to pursue my own self-interest, what does it matter what others think of me?

For someone with a lot of privilege, the rational answer is, “it doesn’t matter at all.” The more privileged you are, the less other people’s thoughts count. You go into a store, and you buy what you want, or you don’t buy. You don’t have to worry about what the store clerks think of you - what could matter less?

It matters if you’re a black woman like Debbie Allen, the very successful producer and choreographer. When she walks into a store, it matters what the clerks think of her - because those clerks might decide to refuse to sell her anything (she obviously can’t afford it). This isn’t a hypothetical situation - it really happened. Just as it really happened to Patricia Williams (a very successful lawyer who is a black woman), who once visited a high-end retail store - and the clerk refused to even buzz her in.

Those are small examples, but they illustrate what I mean. To someone with a lot of privilege, what strangers think is irrelevant. To someone in a less privileged position, what strangers think of you determines what kind of access you get to the complex network of relationships that make up our society and our economy. When strangers often think less of you because of your sex or race, you have less access to the material benefits of our society and economy.

People with more privilege, in contrast, can easily imagine that they are independent. A big mark of privilege is that social and economic networks tend to facilitate goals, rather than block them. This makes it easier to ignore the social and economic networks around us; and it makes it easier for the privileged to imagine their accomplishments are the result of their own pure merit. Imagine two roads: one smooth, well-paved, well-maintained, the other lumpy and full of cracks and pits. Most people will drive over the smooth road without even noticing it - but that doesn’t mean that the smooth road hasn’t facilitated their driving. Nor does it mean that the person driving on the smooth road has more merit, as a driver, than someone stuck on pothole avenue.

The feminist and anti-racist view of the world - in which people are not independent but interlinked, and therefore what others think matters in very real and concrete ways - is much more realistic. No one is independent; we all rely on a network of social and economic ties to tens of thousands of strangers, just to get through a single day. (Who grew the food you eat? Who paved the road you take to work? Who decided to offer you your job? Who decided to offer - or not offer - you a residence where you now live? You didn’t do all these things yourself.)

Of course, everyone - regardless of race and sex - will hit occasional bumps on the road. And everyone, white men included, has put out some sort of effort to get where they got. But when the folks on the smoother road go faster and further, let’s not pretend it’s because they’re better drivers.

Alchemist
#60 Old 20th Feb 2010 at 11:19 AM Last edited by SuicidiaParasidia : 20th Feb 2010 at 11:29 AM.
Quote: Originally posted by harmonee_el
SuicidiaParasidia what is your point!Yes Some black people have murdered,and Physically or psychologically abused white people.But the part about the Lynching.I have never heard of a black person lynching a white,and If they did you will never hear the end of it.


my point is: things like murder and discrimination are not limited to race. saying white people murdered, lynched, etc WHILE TRUE is not exclusive to that side. its suggesting that black people, IN THAT EQUATION, are completely without any wrongdoings and therefore white people are just always picking on black people because theyre heartless assholes who're stuck in the past.

as for instances where white people have been lynched: google. im too lazy to bring up specific instances, and im sure you arent so brainless that you couldnt find any if you looked for them.
just because you havnt heard of it doesnt mean it hasnt actually happened somewhere. we go entire lifetimes without hearing about things. that doesnt mean they never existed, does it?

but, no, sadly, " cant we all just get along " hasnt sunken in yet. and personally, while i do believe we could all lead happy lives without it, conflict does add flavor to the entire thing. we wouldnt know joy without sorrow, anger without ease. we wouldnt know good people from assholes if everyone just always agreed on everything....somehow, it feels, the value of those sort of things would be lessened.
( sorry for going so off topic, but im trying to make a point. NOT trying to say that the world needs racism. but. )
imagine a world where everyone loved each other unconditionally. ....now, do you think love would be as valuable as it is today, in a world where people hate and distrust and discriminate? would you even know what love was, if you felt it all the time for everyone?
how would you know what love even was, if you'd never hated anyone before in your life?
just a thought.
racism is, while undoubtedly unpleasant, a good thing to keep in mind when regarding oneself and others. im not saying be racist--no. but racism is one of the many things that impact us in such a way that it helps shape who we decide we want to be. everything does, actually.

in any case, my father was racism, and thats where i was introduced to it. did i decide to pick it up where he left off? no. but without him to set an example for me of how i didnt want to be, i wouldnt know that much more about myself today. see where im going with this...?

racism can be good ONLY in that it teaches us what we DONT want to be. well, sane people, anyway. we havnt matured as a species to get to the " cant we all just get along " point, but if we hang in there long enough, hopefully itll settle in. wouldnt that be nice? :|

...i probably digressed from my original view, but thats probably because its 3:20am and im having an insomnia fit. -_-; pardon.
though i would like to add that just as there are people of all races whom are racist, there are others of their race who are ashamed to be lumped with them for it. i really do believe that the few assholes and nutjobs out there who make the biggest impressions set the bar for the rest of their 'kind', and its pretty sad that most people dont have anything else given to them to think about...so they go around assuming everyone of that nationality/culture/color is that way.

"The more you know, the sadder you get."~ Stephen Colbert
"I'm not going to censor myself to comfort your ignorance." ~ Jon Stewart
Versigtig, ek's nog steeds fokken giftig
Test Subject
#61 Old 20th Feb 2010 at 1:43 PM
I definately think white people take a lot of racism..

I like to think that I am open minded and dont descriminate against anyone but there are businesses that you have to send a photo when you apply because they only hire asian people, black people who make little comments that if the roles were reversed would start a huuuge fight and European people who will only be friends with other Europeans..

Living in Australia we have a HUGE multicultural base here and sure, there are a lot of racist while people from the older generations where it was 'acceptable' to be that way, but a lot of the fights here have been started by immogrants for the way they treat white australians.

I think that as white people we have become so afraid to be racist to other ethnicities that when we are even rude to them now they take it the wrong way and cry racism.
Inventor
#62 Old 20th Feb 2010 at 2:54 PM Last edited by urisStar : 20th Feb 2010 at 3:32 PM.
The first person to be lynched by the KKK was Jewish and you would be hard press to find any records of a so-called white person being lynch by anyone outside of the KKK.

In an effort to discount/marginalize the ugly truth of institutionalized racism and discrimination and it’s prevailing after affects that linger on to this day, people seem to want to elevate acts of violence which is a crime regardless of skin color and jackass behavior which knows no color or gender, to the same level as institutionalized and socialized racism and discrimination. There were actual governmental and social policies and behavior in action against people of African heritage, keeping those people without any regress/justice. They actually had to "get over it" until they decided not too. There is no comparison as much as people are trying to make such a case.

People dislike others for a number of reasons and mostly it doesn’t have to do with skin color but behavior/actions as in you get from others what you give, regardless of your station in life. If you sow hate and discrimination, don’ be surprised when it boomerang back in your direction. There are laws of nature that will not be denied, plain and simple!
Field Researcher
#63 Old 20th Feb 2010 at 6:05 PM
Quote: Originally posted by urisStar
There were actual governmental and social policies and behavior in action against people of African heritage, keeping those people without any regress/justice.


...but what does this have to do with today? Those laws don't exist anymore.

Cait

"If a kid asks where rain comes from, I think a cute thing to tell him is ‘God is crying’. And if he asks why God is crying, another cute thing to tell him is ‘Probably because of something you did’."
- Jack Handey, Deep Thoughts
Inventor
#64 Old 20th Feb 2010 at 6:51 PM
Good question.

According to the topic there are some that seem to want to suggest that they are confronting reverse racism because they are so-called white and my position is unless a comparison can be made, which they can’t, their issue is more a crime in the instance of violence or Jackass behavior and or both and they are colorless and genderless behavior.

To prove discrimination and or racism there are laws put in place and it is very complicated to be proven. It seems to be more of a trend to pull racism out of today’s hat as a way of equalizing behaviors of the past and as much as one tries there is no comparison.

That is not to say that there are not people who hate others because of flesh color, but outside of name calling there is not much they can do unless they are in a position to impact your way of life/livelihood and the like. Sure name calling can be hurtful and Americans will be the first to tell you about their Constitutional rights to free speech.
Inventor
#65 Old 20th Feb 2010 at 7:12 PM
Quote: Originally posted by urisStar
Good question.

According to the topic there are some that seem to want to suggest that they are confronting reverse racism because they are so-called white and my position is unless a comparison can be made, which they can’t, their issue is more a crime in the instance of violence or Jackass behavior and or both and they are colorless and genderless behavior.

To prove discrimination and or racism there are laws put in place and it is very complicated to be proven. It seems to be more of a trend to pull racism out of today’s hat as a way of equalizing behaviors of the past and as much as one tries there is no comparison.

That is not to say that there are not people who hate others because of flesh color, but outside of name calling there is not much they can do unless they are in a position to impact your way of life/livelihood and the like. Sure name calling can be hurtful and Americans will be the first to tell you about their Constitutional rights to free speech.


Yes, exactly! Name calling doesn't quantify with widespread societal oppression.
Instructor
#66 Old 21st Feb 2010 at 1:22 AM
Maybe not, but does it help anybody to be belittled for something they can't change?
Inventor
#67 Old 21st Feb 2010 at 1:41 AM Last edited by urisStar : 21st Feb 2010 at 1:54 AM.
Belittling is having two degrees both 4.0gpa and being employed in an organization where you are the only one in your department that is non-white, and finding out that even those that are in lower positions without even one degree earns more than you do.
Instructor
#68 Old 21st Feb 2010 at 9:52 AM
Exactly. Everyone suffers when when see with our eyes and not with our hearts. Or at the very least be rational about things. I just think people put too much stock in appearances.
It might not be typical racism. And certainly it cannot compare to the truly horrible things hateful people did and still do in the name of "white supremacy". But to say it has no meaning... It's still hate. No matter what it only leads to violence.
What good does it really do to compare slights?
Field Researcher
#69 Old 21st Feb 2010 at 11:14 AM
Quote: Originally posted by urisStar
Belittling is having two degrees both 4.0gpa and being employed in an organization where you are the only one in your department that is non-white, and finding out that even those that are in lower positions without even one degree earns more than you do.



How unfortunate. Perhaps in your case, it may to be related to race, but this kind of crap goes on all over the corporate world, and I don't think race is the only factor. I think sometimes its about who you know and how much ass you are willing to kiss, and how much of a sheople you are willing to be
Inventor
#70 Old 21st Feb 2010 at 1:35 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Elyasis
Exactly. Everyone suffers when when see with our eyes and not with our hearts. Or at the very least be rational about things. I just think people put too much stock in appearances.
It might not be typical racism. And certainly it cannot compare to the truly horrible things hateful people did and still do in the name of "white supremacy". But to say it has no meaning... It's still hate. No matter what it only leads to violence.
What good does it really do to compare slights?


It is not about comparing slights as it is prioritizing things of importance and showing that while what someone may say to me may be hurtful, devaluing my worth to where it hurt my way of life by controlling my economic outcome is power that is misguided but effective in causing me real harm.
Instructor
#71 Old 22nd Feb 2010 at 4:03 AM
True enough but I know for a fact that it's not always about race when that kind of thing happens.
Field Researcher
#72 Old 22nd Feb 2010 at 5:08 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Elyasis
True enough but I know for a fact that it's not always about race when that kind of thing happens.


It happens to women all the time, unfortunately.

Cait

"If a kid asks where rain comes from, I think a cute thing to tell him is ‘God is crying’. And if he asks why God is crying, another cute thing to tell him is ‘Probably because of something you did’."
- Jack Handey, Deep Thoughts
Top Secret Researcher
#73 Old 22nd Feb 2010 at 6:36 PM Last edited by StephSim : 8th Mar 2010 at 8:24 PM. Reason: Editing the Questions (just a bit)
Racial Questions
On DEBATING Racism...

While "debating" the topic of racism can be interesting, I find that people often "debate" to push their way of thinking and not to actually grow from the conversation. The focus shifts from the root of the bigger problem to focusing on individual perspectives. When this happens it doesn't come full circle in a way that the debate moves deeper and touches everyone on a human level.

We tend to "personalize" the topic of racism based on our individual experiences. Of course we do because this is human nature. The typical thing to do would be to state your opinion and expect others to conform to that line of thinking. While our experiences and intellectual mindsets are relevant, they are "limited" at best. It tends to lead to back and forth arguing instead of seriously trying to find a common ground that allows us to move forward. In the end, we have simplistic solutions that ONLY exists in talk or thought (like "love/respect is the answer" or "can't we all just get along") instead of in action. At other times we compound the problem of racism by playing the blame game. After all it is easier to point a finger than it is to look in the mirror, just as it is far easier to think of what to do than to do it. Do we only want to deal with racism if doing so is easy?

**********************************************************
On COMBATING Racism...

Many Americans would like to think we have moved beyond racism. Racism in the United States is such a deep rooted thing that it transcends the individual experience and digs deep into polluting a society. Because of the "move on", "forget about it", "that is the past" attitude, racism is seemingly one of those things that we continually take 1 step forward and 2 steps back on. Why is that? Of course others can rightfully argue that many Americans harbour anger when it comes to racism and in turn are avid racists themselves. It's obvious that neither turning a blind eye to racism or negatively feeding into it solves anything. Both ways of being only perpetuate the problem.

While in some ways, things are better...there are just as many ways where things are the same or worse. In all honesty, it is simply easier to do negative things instead of doing the hard things and actually trying to "move BEYOND" racism and into healthier ways of existing and thinking and being TOGETHER. To combat racism, prejudice, discrimination and ignorance as a whole will require much more than talk, but an unbelievable amount of intentional and yes difficult action.

**********************************************************
On MOVING "BEYOND" Racism...

For the purpose of this topic...I prefer to think of racism, prejudice and discrimination as "diseases". These subjective concepts have great power, but to keep things in perspective...my debate is about these diseases, not about black people, white people or any one group. That is where the breakdown happens. I prefer to focus on the true source and not on individual groups of people.

There are a few things I've noticed over the years. The spectrum of this disease is extensive. There is the perpetrator vs.the victim, the majority vs. minorities, The past versus the present attitudes about racism, What racism has done to individuals and minority groups vs the impact it has on the majority group of today and society as a whole, etc.

Human beings prefer to put racism in neat little packages. The majority probably do this in the hopes of dealing with it quickly and moving on (especially if it reflects poorly on past behavior or making the child responsible for the behavior of the parent). The minority groups may like these packages because they serve as "proof" of being wronged and being justified in retribution/retaliation. What a mess!

Racism runs way too deep and is much more complex than these packages. With the racial disease, these packages should be pooled together. Then the negative aspects of racism must be owned, dissected and destroyed on all sides. Only then can everyone do intentional things to move beyond racial pains and grow as one society.

Racism is not just about skin color, stereotypes, what the majority did to the minority group in the past or how the minority groups exist in growing anger against the majority group today, etc. It is about the impact that the disease of racism has had on ALL groups past, present and future. We have to look at ourselves, our loved ones, the overall history that surrounds racism and ultimately we must look at what we can individually do that moves us BEYOND thoughts, talk, debates and words to deal with this disease in action and hopefully one day to find a cure.

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"ABOUT" The Questions...

Instead of boring you endlessly with my grand opinions on racism, I would like to challenge each of you to look within when debating the complex beast that is racism. So I would like to ask a few questions instead, because doling out my total opinion is really not all that productive as it is too linear to truly make a difference.

Initially, I wanted to pose a few questions but couldn't decide who to direct them to? But, I decided to direct them to everyone with the hopes that by being introspective we can not only truly come to terms with how we individually feel about the racial disease, but also so we could see things from other people's perspective in a more productive way.

So...in asking these questions, I ask that you be honest and not give politically correct answers as there are no "right" answers. I also ask that in answering the questions that we try not to lash out at others as a group or dismiss someone's experience as irrelevant because we cannot relate to it or we don't deem it BIG enough to equal our own experience. I also ask that we "try" to respect other people's answers without taking things too personally. This doesn't mean do not respond to what other's say, but to try to do so without resulting to direct insults. I just think it would be interesting to really give a bit of thought to these questions and to see what other people think, feel or have experienced around this topic.

As for my agenda...it exists in the very last question asked, as for me it is the most important question of all. I think I'll answer the questions as well as I haven't put myself under a microscope in a while! My suggestion...copy the questions into notepad and take your time answering them with thought and nonjudgmental honesty.

Note: I've grouped some of the questions together as the answers are sure to overlap and this will cut down on the number of questions.

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The QUESTIONS...

Note
While I am an "American" (US born, but now living in Canada), I think that racism is a problem that touches many races and cultures all over the world. It is not just an American problem. So these questions are NOT just for Americans to answer. Also, keep in mind that racism in the US is often defined under the guise of "black vs. white" because much of the tension is between black and white Americans (although every minority group and white Americans alike have been negatively impacted by racism). However, racism is more than about US blacks and whites. It is about the country as a whole. And for those of you not from the US, you may have totally different experiences which I would like for you to share, using the questions below as a starting point.

I created these questions as a way to keep the conversation going in the hopes that we can move beyond individual racial situations and find ways to exist together. I created these questions to help us explore who we are, as well as to see how racial issues impact others. Hopefully, by talking about racial issues, we can actually find solutions to them.

The questions about age and race and country and nationality are just so people can draw perspective from them. Share at your own discretion. You DO NOT "have to" answer questions that make you uncomfortable in anyway nor do you need to answer ANY or ALL of the questions.

The QUESTIONS...

1) What is your nationality, race and age? Do you find it difficult to talk about racism? Why or why not?

2)Do you think that racism is a major problem in society in general? Why or why not? Who does racism hurt? What do you think is the source of racism? What do you think could/would end racism?

3)Do you have intimate relationships (either friendships or romantic relationships) with people of different races? Do you ever compare friend's of another race with other's of that race? Do you think that being "friendly with" people of other races is the same thing as being "friends with" people of other races? Why or why not?

4)How do you feel (both positive and negative thoughts/reactions) about interracial dating/couples? Would you feel awkward if a close family member were dating outside of your race? Why or why not?

5)Do you act the same around all people regardless of race, ethicity or nationality? Do you treat people differently based solely on them being different from you? If so, explain why/how? If not, what are other things about people that contribute to you treating them differently? Do you feel you are racist in any way?

6)In your opinion, what are a few of the negative racial attitudes/actions that exist in modern society? / What are some of the positive racial attitudes/changes that have occured over time in society?

7)What does "racial pride" mean to you? Is "racial pride" a necessity for any/all groups? Is "national pride" a necessity for all groups? Do you think you are prejudice against your own race, culture or nationality in any way or do you know someone who is?

8) A Yahoo/Google search would yield a myriad of negative responses on racial stereotypes associated with skin colour, ethnicity, culture and nationality, etc. Do you feel you can honestly exist with a person of outside of your race, culture, or nationality without sterotyping in any way? Are there stereotypes about your race, culture or nationality that ring true to you? Can you think of 1 time when someone judged you based on stereotypes, especially those pertaining to race, culture or nationality?

9) Do you see yourself as a victim of racial injustice in any way (regardless of your race)? Explain. If so what are you doing about it?

10) How often was racism discussed in your house growing up? What things did you learn as a child from relatives about race? What things did you learn in the educational environment (grade school or university) about racism? What things did you learn from media about race? Has there been a shift in your racial beliefs since childhood?

OTHER QUESTIONS:
- What is something you can do on a small scale to help with racist attitudes in your own home and in society?

- Do you have any other thoughts about racism or things you simply MUST share?
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Creativity is giving the soul permission to leap beyond the boundaries of the ordinary!
~*~Stephanie~*~
Field Researcher
#74 Old 22nd Feb 2010 at 8:30 PM
Quote: Originally posted by SuicidiaParasidia
yeah but, HOW long has it been since anybody was enslaved or lynched and such?


can we PLEASE just move on, people?
i swear, they dont want equality, they want revenge. :/ on people who didnt actually do anything, themselves. white peoples' ANCESTORS did, not current-day white people...sheesh....

but yes, for the most part i believe racism is a multi-lane highway, both directions. can be given and received by anyone, as can discrimination.



I have to agree with you on that point.

To add my thoughts. We learn about history to never make that same mistakes. We all know slavery and anyother thing that was done against another race, religion or whatever was wrong. We shouldnt do it again. Ok we learned that. Now I know it can be hard to get over it. But todays gerneration were not slaves. I dont see why they will still hold that over the heads of todays white generation, who were not slave drivers. My point is the only way to move forward is to forgive and help to make tomorrow better. It is not going to get any better if todays generation still wants to pull race cards and fret over the past. I am not saying forget about it. I am too saying move on and worry about how to better tomorrow. Its not going to happen if this doesnt stop. That goes for whites doing it too.

Second thought. Kids learn what they are taught. If todays whites are bashing blacks, it is because they learned it from someone. If blacks are bashing whites, well they were taught to do it somewhere. What i am saying is that we are teaching our children this. I dont think rascim is going to stop for a long long time because it just keeps getting taught over and over again. When will people learn that what we do and say today will effect what happens tomorrow. Again it needs to stop.

Example from true life here. - My daughter came home from school crying because she said her friend hurt her feelings in school. I asked her why. Well to make the story short they got into an argument over a toy and was called a stupid cracker. My daughter is five the other girl is the same age. She doesnt know what that means and I didnt tell her. See what is happening to our next generation?

Call me Sasha
Funny how when your a kid, you dream about your future and when you are an adult, you dream about going back to when you were a kid.
Top Secret Researcher
#75 Old 23rd Feb 2010 at 3:16 AM Last edited by simbalena : 24th Feb 2010 at 5:44 AM.
My responses to StephSim's questions:

1) *
What is your nationality (if US please give State as well), race and age? Do you find it difficult to talk about racism? Why or why not?

*Australian, whitey, 34.

Not at all, I find it easy to talk about anything and don't know why the issue of racism would be difficult to discuss.

2)Do you think that racism is a major problem in society? Why or why not?

Yes, because anything that leads to discrimination against any group of people is a major problem. And anything that encourages an us vs them mentality is destructive to society.

3)Do you have intimate relationships (either friendships or romantic relationships) with people of different races? Do you ever compare friend's of another race with everyone else of that race? Do you think that being "friendly with" people of other races is the same thing as being "friends with" people of other races? Why or why not?

I don't really have many friendships with people from different races, but not for any reason specifically related to race. I would never compare someone from a race to everyone else of that race because every person is an individual and should be treated as such. To me it’s a really weird question to ask. I’ve never identified with white people more than any other race. I don’t see the relevance of comparing myself to white people in general so why would I do it to someone else? I don't think that being "friendly with" anyone is the same as being "friends with” someone. I work with people from many cultures and I am friendly towards all of them but I don't consider any of them my friends.

4)*
How do you feel (both positive and negative thoughts/reactions) about interracial dating/couples? Would you feel awkward if a close family member were dating outside of your race? Why or why not?

I think finding someone to love is great and should always be encouraged as long as no one is being hurt or taken advantage of. I think saying a couple shouldn’t be together based on race is disgusting and sad.

*I don't feel awkward at all about my family members dating people outside of their race. Now that I think about it my mother, brother and sister have all dated outside of their race. I didn't think anything of it, they're just people! Actually my sister seems to have a problem dating white guys, I only know of one time she ever went on a date with one. She is currently going out with someone from Afghanistan who used to be in the taliban.

5)Do you act the same around all races? Do you treat people differently based solely on race? If so, explain why/how? If not, what are other things about people that make you treat them differently? Do you feel you are racist in any way?

I think I do act the same around all races, except my accent goes a bit weird when I speak to Americans! I don't think I treat people differently based on race, I treat all strangers in the same way unless they appear aggressive, and I will treat people I do know differently based on what I know about them. So it's pretty obvious that I don't believe I am racist in any way.

6)What are some of the negative racial attitudes/actions that haven't changed much since slavery ended? What things do you feel are better since slavery ended? What are some of the positive changes about racial attitudes?

I can't really comment about slavery as I'm not American.

7) What does "racial pride" mean to you? Is racial pride a necessity for all groups (majority and minority)? Are you prejudice against your own race in any way or do you know someone who is?

I see a need for racial pride for groups of people who have previously been taught to be ashamed of their race. But personally I don't feel any racial pride as I'm only proud of things I have had to work at, not things I am born with. I guess cultural pride is more understandable than racial pride.

8)What are some of the stereotypes that you associate with being white? being black? being Chinese? being Japanese? being Korean? being Hispanic? being Native American? being bi-racial? Are there stereotypes about your race that ring true to you? Can you honestly look at people without racially sterotyping in any way?

I try not to think about stereotypes because I'd just be repeating information I know to be untrue. I guess I culturally stereotype to understand the social pressures someone might be facing, but I don’t consider this racially stereotyping (e.g. Koreans come from a very competitive country so many probably experience a lot of pressure to be successful, but that doesn’t mean I expect a Korean to be like this when I meet them).

We all need to make judgments about others each time we interact with them, but judgements based on race should be avoided because they aren’t reliable.

9)Do you see yourself as a victim of racial injustice in any way? Explain. If so what are you doing about it?

No.

10)How often was racism discussed in your house growing up? What things did you learn as a child from relatives about race? What things did you learn in the educational environment (grade school or university) about racism? What things did you learn from media about race? Has there been a shift in your racial beliefs since childhood?**What is something you can do on a small scale to help with racist attitudes in your own home and in society?

I think racism was probably discussed quite a lot in my house growing up, my family was strongly influenced by other cultures so I didn’t see people from other races as different, and I don’t think my beliefs have changed since I was a child. I don’t think I was ever taught anything negative about other races from relatives or in school. I have only heard other people around me and in the media be racist or talk about experiencing racism (and it always makes me angry). When I studied psychology at university it just reinforced what I already knew – individual differences are far greater than any differences based on race, gender, etc.

I don't know how to deal with it when someone is racist, and in the last 15 years I've rarely encountered anyone who has expressed racist attitudes. Once a girl in my office said that Asian people eat babies. I was speechless! If it had been a family member or friend who said it I would have responded, but if I hear something like that from someone I don't care about I'm more likely to write them of as a moron and avoid them as much as possible (but makes sure I tell everyone else that they said it... passive aggression ftw!).
 
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