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Nysha's New Creators for November - posted on 1st Dec 2017 at 10:00 AM
Replies: 451 (Who?), Viewed: 22851 times.
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Lab Assistant
#51 Old 17th Jul 2017 at 2:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inge Jones
I don't mind them being a placeable block, especially if the solid wall part of that block can be colored the same as the adjacent wall blocks. I am sure the build system can be improved over time, but why get hung up on it now?

Mike, I'd like to know what depth you are aiming for in the AI, and to what extent you are intending to create a "game" (with goals and ways to score them) as opposed to a "toy" (aka sandbox, for us to mess around in and experiment with what-ifs)


Well, I'm pretty sure that by developing for goals based we can end up with enough mechanics to have a sandbox environment pretty much as a by-product.

Initially, I'm going to go for a sims level of AI but I want to add in things like disabilities later ... at least mental health issues like depression or ADSD so that can influence the avatars reactions to activities and even how much they derive from any given activity.

I caught your comments earlier about avatars not mystically knowing stuff about their environment just because they need the loo, I think there should be either an "explore" mode when they visit another home or even a toned down version where they just ask the main "owner" avatar where they should go and you get a dialog to choose to permit them or not! "Can I use your loo?" ... "No!" ... *relationship takes a back step*

Mike
One horse disagreer of the Apocalypse
#52 Old 17th Jul 2017 at 2:14 PM
I like that you're open to the more serious issues in life. EA have played it very safe, so safe that it feels pointless at times, since the characters themselves never appear to suffer any consequences. All the goals and penalties seem to be entirely player-facing in Sims3 and Sims4. Sims 1 and Sims 2 certainly did have the Sims in emotional pain at times, and bad things happened that were not just an opening to get a higher score in some skill

I am designing my AI bottom-up, with depth in mind. So far they have a digestive tract and hydration system, and the urges from these will feed into their autonomous choices and potential health. This is as you say not the way to go if you are planning any sort of popular following during development. I can foresee that my approach may also limit scale!

"You can do refraction by raymarching through the depth buffer" (c. Reddeyfish 2017)
Lab Assistant
#53 Old 17th Jul 2017 at 2:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inge Jones
I like that you're open to the more serious issues in life. EA have played it very safe, so safe that it feels pointless at times, since the characters themselves never appear to suffer any consequences. All the goals and penalties seem to be entirely player-facing in Sims3 and Sims4. Sims 1 and Sims 2 certainly did have the Sims in emotional pain at times, and bad things happened that were not just an opening to get a higher score in some skill

I am designing my AI bottom-up, with depth in mind. So far they have a digestive tract and hydration system, and the urges from these will feed into their autonomous choices and potential health. This is as you say not the way to go if you are planning any sort of popular following during development. I can foresee that my approach may also limit scale!


Nope it's not something that can be implemented right away but I would like to get to that level as it would be possible to implement things like diabetes! drops in the blood sugar levels or high levels affect the decision making processes too!

I'd like to make this as effective as possible, but I would like the option to make its less full on for less hardcore players. sort of a "training wheels mode" :D

Mike
One horse disagreer of the Apocalypse
#54 Old 17th Jul 2017 at 2:30 PM
Sounds like we might meet in the middle somewhere at some stage of development Who knows - my physiology system design or something like it might be boltable-on beneath your AI, after all, players don't actually have to deal with the physiology - it simply flags up an urge the same as it would in The Sims - Urge to drink, to pee etc. The urges can act as the interface to any existing autonomy AI. At face value the urges could have simply been on a timed meter like in The Sims. But the underlying system is also a possible driver for illnesses, unlike the timed meters. I am trying to make it as "cheap" to process as possible.... How many of your characters are you aiming to have fully simulated at any one time?

"You can do refraction by raymarching through the depth buffer" (c. Reddeyfish 2017)
Lab Assistant
#55 Old 17th Jul 2017 at 2:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inge Jones
Sounds like we might meet in the middle somewhere at some stage of development Who knows - my physiology system design or something like it might be boltable-on beneath your AI, after all, players don't actually have to deal with the physiology - it simply flags up an urge the same as it would in The Sims - Urge to drink, to pee etc. The urges can act as the interface to any existing autonomy AI. At face value the urges could have simply been on a timed meter like in The Sims. But the underlying system is also a possible driver for illnesses, unlike the timed meters. I am trying to make it as "cheap" to process as possible.... How many of your characters are you aiming to have fully simulated at any one time?


Well, I did have hopes to control two avatars at one time but I haven't worked out how that interface will work. So, for now, I suspect it will be about 1 - 5 avatars excluding the currently playing one

Mike
Forum Resident
Original Poster
#56 Old 18th Jul 2017 at 12:19 AM
Sorry I don't have a lot of input at the moment. Just wanted to say I'm enjoying your AI discussion. I'm very interested in your plans.

Follow the lives of my TS3 sims and their growing integrated economy.
Lab Assistant
#57 Old 22nd Jul 2017 at 1:23 AM
Hi All

I've done my weekly update a little earlier this week as I'm not around on Sunday so here you go! https://youtu.be/BKgDW39xZhE

Mike
Inventor
#58 Old 22nd Jul 2017 at 1:41 AM
I just watched the last update. Something occurred to me. How complicated/hard/weird would it be if objects had no fixed placement?

In Sims3, we have on the floor placement, at walls placement and on surfaces. What if they were all shiftable vertically and also could be set at a vertical angle?
Of course not useful or necessary for everything, we normally don't want a TV that isn't completely vertically straight but overall, is that a weird thought? Am I even explaining it correctly? Sorry, sometimes, my second language fails me.
Mad Poster
#59 Old 22nd Jul 2017 at 3:16 AM
Please don't take this the wrong way, but I have absolutely no idea why you are doing this other than it is a fun hobby. I think you should continue working on it as a fun project, but there is absolutely no way this is any kind of replacement for Sims.

The reason is really simple. You are one person, despite the hours and time you put in, it is not comparable to something that is worked on for years by a whole team.

At the moment, let's all objectively agree that TS3 is the base standard of Sims game b/c it is much more developed conceptually, being an open world engine. Yeah, I love TS2 as well, but being a dollhouse it is limited and also the graphics are just outdated by today's comparison. So this means, if you want to create a Sims replacement, it has to surpass Sims 3 and I just don't see it happening with a 1 man team.

What I suggest is actually someone with your talent should "mod" TS3 and I mean some serious modding, shifting it to a 64-bit scaffold, fixing all the annoyances people complain about in TS3, etc... Since the reality is, majority of us who waited for TS4 were expecting an "improved" TS3, not the 1/2 finished mobile port game they finally gave us.

Anyways, it is just my suggestion. You're doing great work and if you enjoy it, by all means keep doing it.

Nitromon is a type of Pokemon encountered in the Pokemon Nitrome Version series.

There. Mystery solved.
Mad Poster
#60 Old 22nd Jul 2017 at 4:17 AM Last edited by simmer22 : 22nd Jul 2017 at 4:38 AM.
It's an interesting project, but I sort of get the feeling it's still on the absolute basic TS1 level but with 3D graphics, and there's a lot and then some until it's close to TS2/TS3/TS4 in playability and visually. Like nitromon says, this project will take a lot of time and maybe even resources better spent on other things, and being a one-person project it's probably going to take much more time than you're realizing right now, and unless you master all the various skills needed to make a 3D game, you're probably going to struggle at various points in the project. Nearly all commercial games have a large team of developers, most of them with specialities within a particular field (ideas/concept art, modelling, modding/coding, lights, animation, texturing, rigging, environment, special effects, and so forth), and it's the sum of their work that makes a good game. You don't normally put an animatior to do lights, or a concept artist to make rigs unless you're after a sub-par result.

(Personally, I only have experience from making short animation movies and have no experience in making games, but I have a feeling game-making is a lot more work and I don't envy you. I had to deal with all of the above on my first film, and my skills for most of them were not by any means good. For another film I had to deal with a rig, model and environment made by a halfway decent coder/modder/rigger who turned out to be a mostly crappy modeler, meaning the animations I had to do with a bad environment and worse character model turned out mostly crap. Admittedly, I never rose to anything beyond amateur skills, and I'm now in a completely different career - probably for the best...)

When that's said, you're doing a great job at the project, and keep working at the project as long as you enjoy it.
Test Subject
#61 Old 22nd Jul 2017 at 6:39 AM Last edited by frtyfrSimsPlaya : 22nd Jul 2017 at 6:51 AM.
Please PLEASE make this work out. I want a new Sims-like game alternative REALLY badly. So please keep up the amazing work, guys! And PLEAAASE pay no attention to the Negative Nancies on here. Believe me, there are a LOT of people backing you up. And the more people who find out what you're attempting to do, the more popular your ideas/project will become, believe me.

And yeah, I'm willing to wait however many years this project may take. In the meantime I have Sims 3, an amazing game in itself.
One horse disagreer of the Apocalypse
#62 Old 22nd Jul 2017 at 9:44 AM
But don't forget a lot of the time and manpower in an EA studio is meetings, preparing for meetings, preparing budgeting justifications and presentations, marketing, project management, people doing no coding or art at all but supervising others who are doing it. There is a QA department, people work on stuff for ages then work on it again cos the design requirements change.... etc... Then they have an "art style" that has to be learned, felt, and met by a team of artists. In an Indie game, especially one by just one person, there is none of this overhead. While it's true that if he expected to offer a range of objects with an integrated art design and swaying trees etc it could add years to the development process, a set of basic block objects will do. Look at how immersive and detailed Prison Architect is - having sold over 2m copies. But it's all just 2D sprites with ONE type of chair, THREE types of body shape for the people and a range of about 50 heads they all share. The popularity is in the AI, the game behaviour. You don't need so many people for that. If you look at the cast list for Sims, you will see that the actual behaviour programmers are not very numerous compared to the artists, VFX people and modellers. And even compared to the managers and producers!

I think if a sole developer focusses on the game behaviour coding and barebone objects, and makes sure to offer hooks for user-created objects and graphics to improve the appearance, a game can be successful. A bit like a dollhouse made strongly out of bare plywood - to be decorated by the child or parent. Somehow better than one with fake ivy painted over the fake printed window shutters.

"You can do refraction by raymarching through the depth buffer" (c. Reddeyfish 2017)
Lab Assistant
#63 Old 22nd Jul 2017 at 12:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 310175
I just watched the last update. Something occurred to me. How complicated/hard/weird would it be if objects had no fixed placement?

In Sims3, we have on the floor placement, at walls placement and on surfaces. What if they were all shiftable vertically and also could be set at a vertical angle?
Of course not useful or necessary for everything, we normally don't want a TV that isn't completely vertically straight but overall, is that a weird thought? Am I even explaining it correctly? Sorry, sometimes, my second language fails me.


I suppose if you could give an example of what you could use it for?

Mike
Lab Assistant
#64 Old 22nd Jul 2017 at 12:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inge Jones
But don't forget a lot of the time and manpower in an EA studio is meetings, preparing for meetings, preparing budgeting justifications and presentations, marketing, project management, people doing no coding or art at all but supervising others who are doing it. There is a QA department, people work on stuff for ages then work on it again cos the design requirements change.... etc... Then they have an "art style" that has to be learned, felt, and met by a team of artists. In an Indie game, especially one by just one person, there is none of this overhead.


I've built huge applications for years, not games but business software, and I often build things that are greater in complexity that other teams of developers have done in the same amount of time.

It takes a certain mindset is all. Besides! what else could I be doing with my time?

Mike
Scholar
DELETED POST
22nd Jul 2017 at 2:32 PM
This message has been deleted by SneakyWingPhoenix. Reason: too racist remark
Lab Assistant
#65 Old 22nd Jul 2017 at 3:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SneakyWingPhoenix
Make pixel people with color. Yellow or Brown If right now you're focusing on one race. Later you can make races selectable. I don't wanna look at the mannequins in your screenshots.


I'm not sure when race became part of the initial development? does it offend you that I've used only white people or "mannequins" in my initial developing?

Mike
One horse disagreer of the Apocalypse
#66 Old 22nd Jul 2017 at 3:57 PM
Mike, if you cater to that next thing someone will be along asking why your first people weren't on roller skates as a kind of compromise between wheelchair users and fully ambulant people

"You can do refraction by raymarching through the depth buffer" (c. Reddeyfish 2017)
Lab Assistant
#67 Old 22nd Jul 2017 at 4:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inge Jones
Mike, if you cater to that next thing someone will be along asking why your first people weren't on roller skates as a kind of compromise between wheelchair users and fully ambulant people


To be honest I had to wonder if that wasn't some racist remark about the colour of white peoples skin... but then I remembered ... we all treat each other with respect and equals!

Racism toward any skin colour isn't cool

Mike
Theorist
#68 Old 22nd Jul 2017 at 4:42 PM Last edited by ShigemiNotoge : 22nd Jul 2017 at 5:15 PM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SneakyWingPhoenix
Make pixel people with color. Yellow or Brown If right now you're focusing on one race. Later you can make races selectable. I don't wanna look at the mannequins in your screenshots.

xD this is possibly the most arbitrarily racist thing I've ever heard. Are you telling me you refuse the follow the initial progress of a lone game developer because he happened to choose his own skin colour for his test models that were clearly based on him?
One horse disagreer of the Apocalypse
#69 Old 22nd Jul 2017 at 4:47 PM
Anyway you know my usual comment is "If you don't like the way someone's creating something, create your own". Too many people with entitlement issues.

"You can do refraction by raymarching through the depth buffer" (c. Reddeyfish 2017)
#70 Old 22nd Jul 2017 at 10:49 PM Last edited by SneakyWingPhoenix : 22nd Jul 2017 at 11:06 PM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeHibbert
I'm not sure when race became part of the initial development? does it offend you that I've used only white people or "mannequins" in my initial developing?

Mike

It was a suggestion. No it doesn't, but it would look nice if they didn't look like mannequins (grey-ish), unless you're aiming for a zombie/vampire type on look (whenever you can that is). Other than that, good luck on developing the game further. Let your passion be the drive for coding it Peace.
#71 Old 22nd Jul 2017 at 11:03 PM
P.S. I'm not even being racist. That word sure lost its meaning in 2017. How come you're not making fun of other disabilities If you're only including cripple people in wheelchairs? And I did mention it should be selectable, as in allowing player to chose what color they want for a pixel people to be. That would be the opposite of racism - breaking boundries how you want your virtual people to look like individually.
Theorist
#72 Old 23rd Jul 2017 at 1:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SneakyWingPhoenix
It was a suggestion. No it doesn't, but it would look nice if they didn't look like mannequins (grey-ish), unless you're aiming for a zombie/vampire type on look (whenever you can that is). Other than that, good luck on developing the game further. Let your passion be the drive for coding it Peace.

See you say that but...
Quote:
Originally Posted by SneakyWingPhoenix
Make pixel people with color. Yellow or Brown If right now you're focusing on one race. Later you can make races selectable. I don't wanna look at the mannequins in your screenshots.

This sounds a lot more like a rude demand than a polite suggestion.
Lab Assistant
#73 Old 23rd Jul 2017 at 12:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SneakyWingPhoenix
P.S. I'm not even being racist. That word sure lost its meaning in 2017. How come you're not making fun of other disabilities If you're only including cripple people in wheelchairs? And I did mention it should be selectable, as in allowing player to chose what color they want for a pixel people to be. That would be the opposite of racism - breaking boundries how you want your virtual people to look like individually.


It looked like you were trying to say I am a white supremacist because I hadn't specifically chosen characters with other skin colours than my own.

Now I realise you're just rudely asserting that you don't like my characters because they are too white.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SneakyWingPhoenix
How come you're not making fun of other disabilities If you're only including cripple people in wheelchairs?


There you go again trying to shift the focus back to me to make me look like I'm the bad guy ...

Including people in wheelchairs only was never part of the plan, there will be all kinds of disabilities. Including them actually, sends a message to people with disabilities that are a part of real life, unlike the portrayal of life other games present.

Games that include those sorts of things are not automatically "making fun" of them, they are including them into our perception of what we should consider "normal life".

Finally, would you like a bigger shovel?

Mike
One horse disagreer of the Apocalypse
#74 Old 23rd Jul 2017 at 12:43 PM
Yes for goodness sake SneakyWingPhoenix do actually take the trouble to catch up on Mike's project page before you decide you know what he's planning and not planning! And if it's not mentioned on there or in his videos (or you don't have time to watch them all), ASK him before you assume you know.

"You can do refraction by raymarching through the depth buffer" (c. Reddeyfish 2017)
Test Subject
#75 Old 23rd Jul 2017 at 3:18 PM
The "people" in the new game so far look just fine to me. Actually they look great for an Indie developer.
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