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Instructor
Original Poster
#1 Old 20th Nov 2017 at 10:03 AM
Default charles manson died
i hope this functions as some kind of catharsis for the people affected by what he did. he was reportedly in poor health, so i figured this was going to happen soon.
anyway, was thinking i'd call for a moment of silence for the victims who might finally find peace wherever they may be.

this should be used as a day to remember them and their legacies and their accomplishments. that's all! i'm going to go buy a noodlecup from the grocery store now :~)
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Mad Poster
#2 Old 20th Nov 2017 at 6:07 PM
I'm old enough to vaguely remember the trial, though I don't remember anything at all about the murders, themselves. I seem to recall mentions of it on the news at night, enough to know something very bad had happened in LA.

I do remember the trial, though. On the news every night they would talk about the latest antics of Manson and the family. I was enough of a kid to think it was silly. He thought he was making such big statements.

It wasn't until years later when I read Helter Skelter that I realized what a monster he allowed himself to be.

I pray that he was conscious enough at the end to ask for forgiveness of his sins.

"Fear not little flock, for it hath pleased your Father to give you a kingdom". Luke 12:32 Chris Hatch's family friendly files archived on SFS: http://www.modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=603534 . Bulbizarre's website: https://archiveofourown.org/users/C...CoveredPortals/
Instructor
Original Poster
#3 Old 20th Nov 2017 at 8:04 PM
Quote: Originally posted by smorbie1
I'm old enough to vaguely remember the trial, though I don't remember anything at all about the murders, themselves. I seem to recall mentions of it on the news at night, enough to know something very bad had happened in LA.

I do remember the trial, though. On the news every night they would talk about the latest antics of Manson and the family. I was enough of a kid to think it was silly. He thought he was making such big statements.

It wasn't until years later when I read Helter Skelter that I realized what a monster he allowed himself to be.

I pray that he was conscious enough at the end to ask for forgiveness of his sins.

I'm christian, I wholly believe in second chances and I want to believe most people are redeemable, although some might be harder to redeem than others. But cases like these are difficult for me to process.
My initial reaction is disgust and horror, and I think that's the only appropriate reaction to have to this sort of thing. But it also really challenges my world view, and it makes it hard for me to figure out if they deserve forgiveness.
Regardless of what I believe, it isn't my place to forgive him. I had no ties to any of the people whose deaths he was responsible for -- I wasn't born for decades after it even happened -- so I can't possibly understand the anguish he put them through, not to the full extent. But is he worthy of forgiveness?
I saw a report on what Sharon Tate's sister had said upon finding out he'd died, and she talked about the anger she'd harbored and how she ultimately came to forgive him, in a sense. Not like, "it's cool" but more like "the hatred i feel is toxic and will only serve to tear me down further, it won't contribute anything" kind of thing.
Idk, I have a lot of emotions about this whole thing. It's tough to make a case for everyone being redeemable when stuff like this exists.
Maybe he reflected more on himself towards the end of his life -- I guess we're unlikely to find out. Maybe it doesn't even matter if he did. I don't know.
sorry for the tangent, haha, not sure why i got so caught up with this
Mad Poster
#4 Old 20th Nov 2017 at 8:42 PM
I'm a Christian, too. And there have been times when I wondered about how people capable of such evil could ever be saved. But, I'm a thousand years old now, and I've realized that when we say that, we are limiting God. Jesus' precious blood covers ALL sins, no matter how we humans rank then on our internal sin-o-meter. Sin is sin. It's ugly and evil and God can't look upon it, whether it's lying about doing your homework or genocide. Jesus' blood is the cure, and there is no sin it can't wash white.

I'm hope I don't sound like I'm lecturing; it's the curse of having taught for so many years, I'm afraid.

I've always been interested in the Manson murders. I guess it happened during an impressionable time in my life and it caught my attention. So, I've read a lot about it.

"Fear not little flock, for it hath pleased your Father to give you a kingdom". Luke 12:32 Chris Hatch's family friendly files archived on SFS: http://www.modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=603534 . Bulbizarre's website: https://archiveofourown.org/users/C...CoveredPortals/
Mad Poster
#5 Old 21st Nov 2017 at 11:22 AM
I am spiritual, but was raised in the Christian religion. While I believe that souls are not disposable, I do not think CM was going to be redeemed within this life time. Maybe next time or the time after. I prefer to say someone is sick or ill rather than evil. Evil exists when we believe in it and give it weight. Otherwise, it is a lie (The Devil is a lie and the father of all lies). Evil or the Devil is what we say when we want to separate ourselves from our own natures and pretend we are above it, that we could never do such horrible things. But we are all capable of horrifying actions. Most of us move beyond those impulses and reactions, most of us grow and aspire to be better people, but it's part of human nature to be capable of it. Sometimes circumstances bring out the worse in certain personalities. Sometimes, there are internal forces at work, but they still fall within the realm of human experience and nature. Illness, for example, is a huge one. The man was seriously ill. Most likely too ill to ask for forgiveness, but I like the thought that he may have. Again, maybe in the future.

I'm sorry that he caused grievous harm to others and cut their lives short. Knowing he lived so long bothers me to a degree, although I don't believe in the death penalty. I'm so glad you posted asking for a moment to remember the lives of the people who were hurt by him, Ribbonista. It puts the emphasis where it belongs - not on the person who was sick. It bothers me no end that CM's actions were glorified. He should have been ignored - grossly ignored and forgotten.

Addicted to The Sims since 2000.
Mad Poster
#6 Old 21st Nov 2017 at 11:48 AM
I agree. He should have been left in prison and forgotten, but we have a way of glorifying our murderers, don't we? I was watching a documentary last night on Hitler, and I think it ties in.

I think we are fascinated by people who do allow themselves to embrace such evil. Yes, you are right; it is the devil they have let control their lives. The question is WHY is that so interesting?

In the case of both Hitler and Manson, I think, for me anyway, it's the fact that so many people were convinced to do horrible, humanly irredeemable things, for the love of one person.

In any story of evil I try to find the one point where the person just gave in completely.

Vandeterre, there is a good book you should check out. It's called, The People of the Lie, and it's by Scott Peck. I think it's still in print. It's a study of evil in everyday people, and it's very interesting and informative.

"Fear not little flock, for it hath pleased your Father to give you a kingdom". Luke 12:32 Chris Hatch's family friendly files archived on SFS: http://www.modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=603534 . Bulbizarre's website: https://archiveofourown.org/users/C...CoveredPortals/
Instructor
Original Poster
#7 Old 21st Nov 2017 at 12:25 PM
Quote: Originally posted by VerDeTerre
It bothers me no end that CM's actions were glorified. He should have been ignored - grossly ignored and forgotten.

this has been one of my biggest peeves for the longest time. killers are frequently sensationalized and their stories are written into movies and tv-shows and they essentially become pop-culture figures. i can not name a single one of Ted Bundy's or Dahmer's victims, but i sure know who killed them. they're famous. and for what? it reflects terribly on us as a society that we feed into this kind of subconcious romanticization
Theorist
#8 Old 21st Nov 2017 at 5:11 PM
In my opinion people are drawn or interested in criminals as a way of comparing them against themselves. You often hear someone say "How could they do that? or I'd never do that. Much in the same way that people slow down to look at accidents as if they almost want to see, hoping to see the carnage, of what happened. Then when we pass it we quickly resume our speed almost as if in a hurry to get to our destination to be able to tell what we saw.

(Please note I am not picking on your nor sayin this post is wrong )
Such as in posting this here, while yes you said to focus on those who lost their lives, but look at your title "Charles Manson died", instead of maybe somethin along the lines of "Maybe now they can rest in peace". Your first thought was about Manson.

The more humans allow themselves to be drawn to things such as violent criminals, horrific accidents, or even the misdeeds of someone in power, the more the media will use that desire to sensationalize that action trying to make us want more, like it is somethin we can't live without. It's almost like a catch 22, the need to compare our mundane lives to those of that are sensationalized by the media, the more power is given to them and the media to continue to hold our interest in their wrongdoings. However, this catch 22 can be undone, but it will take a strong effort of each person to turn away from that desire of wanting to know all the morbid details and allowing the media to keep pushing the over hyped goings on. Yes, report the news, but stick with the facts and move on, but humans always want to know more, even to their own detriment, and so the media will continue to provide their minute by minute update on all that seems to shock or outrage.
dodgy builder
#9 Old 21st Nov 2017 at 6:08 PM
I'm an atheist, and I don't believe in forgiveness. I believe in acceptance. As a victim, forgiveness isn't needed, but to go on in life, we have to try'n accept what happened. In my view forgiveness is almost the same as saying it was ok for him to do so, it's like a wellknown character apparently said to "turn the other cheek". I would never keep that as a personal goal, I would rather learn to take care of my rights in a graceful and dignified way.

Quote: Originally posted by ribbonista
this has been one of my biggest peeves for the longest time. killers are frequently sensationalized and their stories are written into movies and tv-shows and they essentially become pop-culture figures. i can not name a single one of Ted Bundy's or Dahmer's victims, but i sure know who killed them. they're famous. and for what? it reflects terribly on us as a society that we feed into this kind of subconcious romanticization


I think this might be an usian thing. We have this massmurderous nazi in my country. As many of my countrymen, I find it very difficult to even mention him. We talk about the victims, but him we have found a short 3 letter abbreviation for, but even that is hard to say. So we talk about his actions without mentioning who did them. Now Netflix is making a movie. At first they had troubles finding any natives to take on the roles and now people don't wanna even hear about it, and really want to stop the hole thing. It 's going to be interesting to see how the movie will be reviewed in Norway.

Quote: Originally posted by CaliBrat
In my opinion people are drawn or interested in criminals as a way of comparing them against themselves. You often hear someone say "How could they do that? or I'd never do that. Much in the same way that people slow down to look at accidents as if they almost want to see, hoping to see the carnage, of what happened. Then when we pass it we quickly resume our speed almost as if in a hurry to get to our destination to be able to tell what we saw.


Comparing? That's just rubbish in my opinion. It's the human way, and it teaches us how we can do a better job next time. Like how did him/her get to be such a monster, what can we do to make sure it doesn't happen again. It's what they talked a lot about in the courtcase in my country. How did he evolve into such a monster, was he sick or was it possible to be a normal person with such characteristics? If they would say he was sick, he couldn't be prosecuted/imprisoned for what he was doing, and he didn't want to be seen as sick, because of the loss of face with such a verdict. Was he sick or was he not. The court decided he wasn't sick.

It's how humans has got this far, learn from your mistakes and move on.
Theorist
#10 Old 21st Nov 2017 at 6:56 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Volvenom
Comparing? That's just rubbish in my opinion. It's the human way, and it teaches us how we can do a better job next time. Like how did him/her get to be such a monster, what can we do to make sure it doesn't happen again. It's what they talked a lot about in the courtcase in my country. How did he evolve into such a monster, was he sick or was it possible to be a normal person with such characteristics? If they would say he was sick, he couldn't be prosecuted/imprisoned for what he was doing, and he didn't want to be seen as sick, because of the loss of face with such a verdict. Was he sick or was he not. The court decided he wasn't sick.

It's how humans has got this far, learn from your mistakes and move on.


I was not speakin of how the person got to be the way they were, but more in how we see them as they are. Our view of them against our view of ourselves. I meant it in a general way of peoples view of a situation and feeling appalled, disgusted, or outright disbelieve that someone could even think of doing somethin like that. It is in that aspect that we are comparing ourselves and what we would do to what they have done.

The vast majority of people are always comparing themselves against one another, in looks, in actions, in who has what and so on. It is in that comparison they try and define who they are and their worth as a person. People raise others up above themselves and expect them to be better then them such as with celebrities, and when that celebrity fumbles and proves that they are just as fallible as everyone else it tends to rock peoples foundation of who they are. Now with people who are elevated to celebrity status due to their wrongdoing, the comparison is slightly different in that instead of wantin to emulate them, though I'm sure there are some who are sick enough to want to, it's more of a distancing ones self. Either way, instead of finding ones self worth of being where they need to look and that is in a mirror, they look at others, in essence compare themselves, to try and understand their own lives.

(Edit: btw .. I wan't your disagreer .. :P)
dodgy builder
#11 Old 22nd Nov 2017 at 12:02 AM
Quote: Originally posted by CaliBrat
I was not speakin of how the person got to be the way they were, but more in how we see them as they are. Our view of them against our view of ourselves. I meant it in a general way of peoples view of a situation and feeling appalled, disgusted, or outright disbelieve that someone could even think of doing somethin like that. It is in that aspect that we are comparing ourselves and what we would do to what they have done.


Comparing only works with people who can be used for that purpose. We're talking about a mass murderer here, no one compares themselves to a mass murderer ... unless you would like to follow his or her route.
Test Subject
#12 Old 22nd Nov 2017 at 7:47 PM
Quote: Originally posted by smorbie1
I agree. He should have been left in prison and forgotten, but we have a way of glorifying our murderers, don't we? I was watching a documentary last night on Hitler, and I think it ties in.

I think we are fascinated by people who do allow themselves to embrace such evil. Yes, you are right; it is the devil they have let control their lives. The question is WHY is that so interesting?

In the case of both Hitler and Manson, I think, for me anyway, it's the fact that so many people were convinced to do horrible, humanly irredeemable things, for the love of one person.

In any story of evil I try to find the one point where the person just gave in completely.

Vandeterre, there is a good book you should check out. It's called, The People of the Lie, and it's by Scott Peck. I think it's still in print. It's a study of evil in everyday people, and it's very interesting and informative.


What should we do instead? Not study these people and find out what makes them the way they are, just sweep it under the rug? If we don't study people like Manson and Hitler, we can not predict these behaviours from others.

I don't get all this talk of evil. Why is this a mystery? Look at Manson's childhood. He was born to an alcoholic, runaway teen who didn't even bother to name him for weeks. She didn't know who his true father was. She subjected him to cruel abuse as a child, at one point literally selling him for a keg of beer. So those are Manson's early experiences. We can then easily deduce he had attachment and control issues, which drove him to create a cult of people who adored him, supplementing that affection he lacked as a child.

None of that excuses what he did, obviously, but it's no mystery. And instead of calling the dead evil and making ourselves feel superior through this venue, how about we try and help the children, thousands of them, who find themselves in the position Manson did as a child.
Banned
#13 Old 22nd Nov 2017 at 11:57 PM
I didn't even realize how old he was. I wanted to meet him someday, though I'm not sure if random people would've been allowed to interview him if they weren't a journalist or something.
Instructor
Original Poster
#14 Old 27th Nov 2017 at 11:59 AM
Quote: Originally posted by endlessgalaxy
What should we do instead? Not study these people and find out what makes them the way they are, just sweep it under the rug? If we don't study people like Manson and Hitler, we can not predict these behaviours from others.

I don't get all this talk of evil. Why is this a mystery? Look at Manson's childhood. He was born to an alcoholic, runaway teen who didn't even bother to name him for weeks. She didn't know who his true father was. She subjected him to cruel abuse as a child, at one point literally selling him for a keg of beer. So those are Manson's early experiences. We can then easily deduce he had attachment and control issues, which drove him to create a cult of people who adored him, supplementing that affection he lacked as a child.

None of that excuses what he did, obviously, but it's no mystery. And instead of calling the dead evil and making ourselves feel superior through this venue, how about we try and help the children, thousands of them, who find themselves in the position Manson did as a child.

I think that's an oversimplification. Those two things aren't mutually exclusive, either. Acknowledging the deplorable conditions he was raised in doesn't mean you can't vehemently condemn, and it definitely doesn't mean ignoring currently ongoing child-abuse.
I also think some level of personal responsibility is called for, as abuse does not always lead to homicidal tendencies. And that's me speaking from personal experience.

There's only so much to understand. If I were a relative or close friend of someone he'd murdered, I wouldn't be trying to empathize. Of course there should be (and there definitely are, believe you me) resources for people seeking to understand these types of people. But at the end of the day, in a situation where a number of people have been brutalized their stories should be the focal point of the story. Not the life and legacy of the person who did it.
This is just my own world view, though, and I understand that some people see differently! :~)

Quote: Originally posted by Volvenom
I'm an atheist, and I don't believe in forgiveness. I believe in acceptance. As a victim, forgiveness isn't needed, but to go on in life, we have to try'n accept what happened. In my view forgiveness is almost the same as saying it was ok for him to do so, it's like a wellknown character apparently said to "turn the other cheek". I would never keep that as a personal goal, I would rather learn to take care of my rights in a graceful and dignified way.

I understand that sentiment, however, to me forgiveness is synonymous with acceptance. "Forgive but don't forget" is a phrase that comes to mind. For example, there's a person who did something absolutely vile to me and has since then exited my life. I forgive him in the sense that I will not focus energy on harboring resentment towards him; this is for the purpose of self-preservation FAR MORE than it is to ease any kind of burden for him. All that being said, I still would not accept him back into my life, simply because I know that would be dangerous and ill-adviced.

Also, I was wondering who you might be talking about until you mentioned Norway, I think I know now. I live in Sweden and was about 12 years old when that happened, I remember not quite understanding the weight of it, but it was big news here as well.
Mad Poster
#15 Old 27th Nov 2017 at 12:44 PM
The funny thing about Manson is that people bought his self history for so long. Read Jeff Guinn's biography. It's brilliant. He did something no one had ever thought to do. He actually researched Manson, rather than just regurgitating the well-know story. By talking to Manson's family he discovered,for instance:

Manson was named immediately after birth. His mother, a teenager, WAS married at the time of his birth, making Charlie the legal issue of a marriage. She was not married to his real father, but she was married.

He did not grow up impoverished. After his legal father's dissertion, his still-teenaged mom moved in with her parents. Charlie lived in a home with his grandparents, was not poor, though he was far from rich, and benefited from having both male and female caregivers and role models.

After his mother went to prison, Charlie went to live with his aunt and uncle to be closer to the prison. They were actually quite comfortable financially.

I found it very interesting that by the time he was five there were two well-known facts about Charlie. He loved music and he lied so much no one could believe anything he said.

What Charlie was was a con man, plain and simple. He learned the no-name story garnered him sympathy, and that people would respond to his tale that he had been in jail all his life.

That much, at least, was true. But he put himself there. He was not a victim of circumstance.

"Fear not little flock, for it hath pleased your Father to give you a kingdom". Luke 12:32 Chris Hatch's family friendly files archived on SFS: http://www.modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=603534 . Bulbizarre's website: https://archiveofourown.org/users/C...CoveredPortals/
dodgy builder
#16 Old 27th Nov 2017 at 3:58 PM Last edited by Volvenom : 27th Nov 2017 at 4:17 PM.
Quote: Originally posted by ribbonista
I understand that sentiment, however, to me forgiveness is synonymous with acceptance. "Forgive but don't forget" is a phrase that comes to mind. For example, there's a person who did something absolutely vile to me and has since then exited my life. I forgive him in the sense that I will not focus energy on harboring resentment towards him; this is for the purpose of self-preservation FAR MORE than it is to ease any kind of burden for him. All that being said, I still would not accept him back into my life, simply because I know that would be dangerous and ill-adviced.

Also, I was wondering who you might be talking about until you mentioned Norway, I think I know now. I live in Sweden and was about 12 years old when that happened, I remember not quite understanding the weight of it, but it was big news here as well.



For some reason I don't think you're that young: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yob1RKJtTV0

Let me tell you a story about forgiveness. A man was sitting in a wheel chair. A gang of boys attacked him on the bus. He had been injured in a car accident and had got really far, to the point he could manage on his own. His mother was at the triel and said she didn't know what would happen now. I guess at some point you just give up, what's the point when boys knows no boundry? Point is the father of one of the boys wanted her to forgive his son for his actions. She didn't say so, but it was obvious she found the hole thing repulsive. I totally agreed with her. Him and his son has to learn to live with what they did, just like she has to try'n go forward. The boy was a pakistani and the mother was norwegian. Asking a norwegian to forgive like that ... I know many people who would have been incredibly offended. She managed to keep it in, not making a scene. On the other side I understand the fathers disappointment with his own son, it must be hard to live with.

Quote: Originally posted by smorbie1
What Charlie was was a con man, plain and simple. He learned the no-name story garnered him sympathy, and that people would respond to his tale that he had been in jail all his life.

That much, at least, was true. But he put himself there. He was not a victim of circumstance.


I made a complete cockup of this post I wrote that I believe in people and their ability to change. There must have been some reason for him doing this. Then in my country we base our prisonsystem on the fact that people can change. Like that incredible swiss guy who kept his hole "family" trapped in the basement. Some "experts" said he probably ended up there gradually and didn't know how to get out of it. People are also incredibly good at adapting to the circumstances. If you have to kill people to survive, it's what you do, otherwise you will be killed.
Instructor
Original Poster
#17 Old 28th Nov 2017 at 1:13 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Volvenom
For some reason I don't think you're that young: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yob1RKJtTV0

Let me tell you a story about forgiveness. A man was sitting in a wheel chair. A gang of boys attacked him on the bus. He had been injured in a car accident and had got really far, to the point he could manage on his own. His mother was at the triel and said she didn't know what would happen now. I guess at some point you just give up, what's the point when boys knows no boundry? Point is the father of one of the boys wanted her to forgive his son for his actions. She didn't say so, but it was obvious she found the hole thing repulsive. I totally agreed with her. Him and his son has to learn to live with what they did, just like she has to try'n go forward. The boy was a pakistani and the mother was norwegian. Asking a norwegian to forgive like that ... I know many people who would have been incredibly offended. She managed to keep it in, not making a scene. On the other side I understand the fathers disappointment with his own son, it must be hard to live with.


I'm 18, the massacre happened soon after my 12th birthday.
I also ultimately think that a person who has been exposed to something incredibly painful should always choose how they cope with that. If somebody feels better or energized by holding on to that anger, that's what works for them. If a person can not bring themselves to forgive, that's understandable.
But it is not my place to tell somebody they're "doing it wrong." If somebody was hurt and ended up forgiving the person who did it, there's a whole series of events and difficult emotions preceeding that that we did not see. We don't know what's going on in their head, and if they feel better forgiving them, if that's what gives them peace, what are we supposed to do? Tell them "you can't do that"? That's incredibly off-colour when we have no clue what they've been going through, that led up to them forgiving that person.
People function differently, and we find calm in different places. I won't tell somebody to forgive, and I won't tell them not to, because I can never understand.
dodgy builder
#18 Old 28th Nov 2017 at 3:58 PM
Quote: Originally posted by ribbonista
I'm 18, the massacre happened soon after my 12th birthday.
I also ultimately think that a person who has been exposed to something incredibly painful should always choose how they cope with that. If somebody feels better or energized by holding on to that anger, that's what works for them. If a person can not bring themselves to forgive, that's understandable.
But it is not my place to tell somebody they're "doing it wrong." If somebody was hurt and ended up forgiving the person who did it, there's a whole series of events and difficult emotions preceeding that that we did not see. We don't know what's going on in their head, and if they feel better forgiving them, if that's what gives them peace, what are we supposed to do? Tell them "you can't do that"? That's incredibly off-colour when we have no clue what they've been going through, that led up to them forgiving that person.
People function differently, and we find calm in different places. I won't tell somebody to forgive, and I won't tell them not to, because I can never understand.


We just end up in disagreeing on words basically. If you changed forgiveness with acceptance we probably agree. Forgiveness not in my book.
Mad Poster
#19 Old 28th Nov 2017 at 4:22 PM
Forgiveness and acceptance are not synonyms.

"Fear not little flock, for it hath pleased your Father to give you a kingdom". Luke 12:32 Chris Hatch's family friendly files archived on SFS: http://www.modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=603534 . Bulbizarre's website: https://archiveofourown.org/users/C...CoveredPortals/
Instructor
Original Poster
#20 Old 29th Nov 2017 at 10:55 AM
wow, this thread became more polarizing than i expected it to
dodgy builder
#21 Old 29th Nov 2017 at 12:17 PM Last edited by Volvenom : 29th Nov 2017 at 12:53 PM.
Quote: Originally posted by smorbie1
Forgiveness and acceptance are not synonyms.


They are used in the same way and wearther you say forgive or accept is very personal, and doesn't really say anything about you as a person. You can be a compationate person, and empathize with other people if you accept what happend.

I consider it much easier to move forward in life if you accept what happened, but it doesn't require you to forgive the other person. In cases of rape and murder, and where the person involved is not likely to stop whatever you do about it, your forgiveness is not going to help.

If you accept a person is a psychopath, forgiveing him is just not going to make a lot difference to him.

In my view though he might consider you naive and gullible. Sometimes putting your feet down and be strong is what is required.

Quote: Originally posted by ribbonista
wow, this thread became more polarizing than i expected it to


I didn't see it that way. I did feel it was a bit odd though. I mean the difference between the 2 words arn't that different.
Mad Poster
#22 Old 29th Nov 2017 at 1:03 PM
Yeah, they really are. But this is not a debate thread. So, I will accept and let go.

There is a commercial out now for a show about some unbroadcast Manson tapes. In it he talks about never being caught for the things he did and bodies buried along a beach. There's always been a lot of speculation that there were many more dead people in his wake. It looks interesting, but I don't know when it's airing.

"Fear not little flock, for it hath pleased your Father to give you a kingdom". Luke 12:32 Chris Hatch's family friendly files archived on SFS: http://www.modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=603534 . Bulbizarre's website: https://archiveofourown.org/users/C...CoveredPortals/
Instructor
Original Poster
#23 Old 29th Nov 2017 at 4:53 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Volvenom
I consider it much easier to move forward in life if you accept what happened, but it doesn't require you to forgive the other person. In cases of rape and murder, and where the person involved is not likely to stop whatever you do about it, your forgiveness is not going to help.

If you accept a person is a psychopath, forgiveing him is just not going to make a lot difference to him.

I was raped at age 17, me forgiving him had virtually nothing to do with him and everything to do with me surviving the pain I was going through. Let's just agree to disagree, please. There's no reason we can't see things differently.
dodgy builder
#24 Old 29th Nov 2017 at 5:37 PM
Quote: Originally posted by ribbonista
I was raped at age 17, me forgiving him had virtually nothing to do with him and everything to do with me surviving the pain I was going through. Let's just agree to disagree, please. There's no reason we can't see things differently.


I didn't realise this was personal to you. Sure we can disagree. *hugs*
Instructor
Original Poster
#25 Old 29th Nov 2017 at 8:01 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Volvenom
I didn't realise this was personal to you. Sure we can disagree. *hugs*

Ahh, thank you, lots of love :')
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